Dr Who - Game over

[Surye]

Helloo-o-o-o! VOTE: CES

[Surye]

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

[Surye]

Interesting

In what way?

In the general sense of the word.

The FoS on pappums was odd to me

But not on you or Ant?

If you read in order, you'd see my post was before he FoSed me. I realize this is a Dr Who Mafia, but I could not timetravel to see his FoS I'm afraid.

I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

How has he reacted? How did you expect him to react if you provided no reasoning - surely that could just be seen as a RVS vote (unless it was a RVS vote and I'm incorrect in thinking you voted CES because you thought "The FoS on pappums was odd")?

I wanted to see if he assumed it an RVS, or reacted defensively without real provocation.

[Surye]

PPE:

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

Since when is this townposting?

MFoS: Surye

I wish I could respond, but I don't see the problem that you obviously do :/

[Surye]

The FoS on pappums was odd to me

But not on you or Ant?

If you read in order, you'd see my post was before he FoSed me. I realize this is a Dr Who Mafia, but I could not timetravel to see his FoS I'm afraid.

Yeah, realised that after I posted, but to an extent it's still kinda valid. Do you think his subsequent FoSes on yourself and Ant are/were odd?

Actually I am not sure. It's consistent with his first FoS (off wagon vote), so I actually like his reaction, and don't see it as defensive as I thought I'd get.

[Surye]

Actually I am not sure. It's consistent with his first FoS (off wagon vote), so I actually like his reaction,

and don't see it as defensive as I thought I'd get.

You thought you'd get a defensive reaction: did you think he was scum (who, as such would react defensively) simply from his FoS? Or would a defensive reaction be one you would expect from town?

I didn't think he was town or scum honestly, but during the RVS (especially page 1), FoS, ping my scumdar a bit, and I wanted to see if I could get any more information. I certainly don't appreciate being called Stupid over it

[Surye]

We're on page 2, I'm not being passive, I'm poking and prodding to see where people show scumminess. I commented on the Nexus and Hoppster interaction as I think there is something of note, but I don't have a read on the relationship between them. My reads will solidify and I will take a stronger stance when I have one.

[Surye]

We're on page 2, I'm not being passive, I'm poking and prodding to see where people show scumminess. I commented on the Nexus and Hoppster interaction as I think there is something of note, but I don't have a read on the relationship between them. My reads will solidify and I will take a stronger stance when I have one.

Uh, WHAT? Prodding my foot - summary does not prodding make, nor does simply answering other people's questions.

And funny, I seemed to get reaction. Hmmm.

[Surye]

Surye (1) has been prodded

Will be reviewing and posting at lunch, got two new kittens this weekend and they kept me more busy than expected.

[Surye]

Ugh, I'm having a hard time getting into this game, which is too bad. I was going to post the other day, and mafiascum was down on my lunch. I'm rereading again, and will give reads. Since I've been put at L-2, I'm not going to claim.

[Surye]

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was retarding day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that. And he posts like zero content most of the time...but that's CES. :/

Snake was acting scummy. Meta based Nexus vote. Then Sonic Screwdriver nonsense. Then claims no reads from him D1, absolves himself from any responsibility. Then votes me with no comment on a single thing about me?

Tar's scumhunting seems genuine, even when targetting me with it. Other then the fake day kill, which I am not sure about, he seems town to me.

Those are the reads/thoughts worth posting in the 7 pages we got from me. I should be more active now that I am caught up (you know how it is, the more behind in a game you get, the harder it is to catch up, then the further you fall behind )

VOTE: Snake Currently the scummiest read I have, and it's pretty strong.

[Surye]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Snake

[Surye]

Ugh, I'm having a hard time getting into this game, which is too bad. I was going to post the other day, and mafiascum was down on my lunch. I'm rereading again, and will give reads. Since I've been put at L-2, I'm not going to claim.

Ok, so first you had new kittens distracting you. And next you say MS was down when you went to post here.

How do you explain your approximately 15 to 20 other posts in other active games while you did not post here over the last 2.5 days?

Certainly MS wasn’t down then and your kittens clearly didn’t stop you from posting in them.

Yes, those were games I had a handle on, I wasn't already behind, different time and thought investment to make a meaningful contribution.

[Surye]

Mod

, I'm voting for Snake, not Surye.

mod note: my mistake, fixed.

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was

retarding

accelerating day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that.

Fixed!

I'd accept an argument for that, I just don't know of I like the method, I think you did accelerate it. Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

[Surye]

Ah, home sweet home!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Uhm....is my vote count off? I believe both of his numbers are wrong. He moved from a wagon of three (including himself) to form a wagon of four.
Ant: iamausername, Cogito Ergo Sum
Surye: Nexus, bv310, The Rufflig

Where were you going with this anyway?

----

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

----

Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

That was actually Nexus and you were at L-2 at the time.

You're right about Nexus, sorry, I get confused sometimes when catching up and reading a lot of isos.

However I was at L-3, the mod counted wrong.

[Surye]

There are too many megawalls in this game. And most of them are overly fluffy. I wish my love for doctor who translated to loving this game.

Lets see here, current reads.

I don't like ant's delaying of the game, even suggesting waiting till the dead line is scummy as hell. Definite Snake/Ant connection, the longer the wagon, the more likely it dissipates, I think Ant is counting on that. I don't see this as scum protecting town though, because it's such subtle protection. I still think snake is the right lynch at the moment.

[Surye]

Here's my claim. I am the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and I am Vanilla Town. Only me and my vote. So if you lynch me no probes you get save a PR, but alas you will miss scum. ALONSI!

Hm... I guess I was wrong in my last post, I buy it.

UNVOTE:

[Surye]

Here's my claim. I am the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and I am Vanilla Town. Only me and my vote. So if you lynch me no probes you get save a PR, but alas you will miss scum. ALONSI!

Hm... I guess I was wrong in my last post, I buy it.

UNVOTE:

So you are unvoting a top scummy suspect because he claims VT?

I don't even ....

It's not the VT claim exactly. If you were town you might have some idea why I think he is telling the truth.

[Surye]

It's not the VT claim exactly. If you were town you might have some idea why I think he is telling the truth.

Oh I’m scum now am I? Because I’m voting and suspect you?

And what else is there to his claim post that convinces you? The fact that he says we wouldn’t be lynching a PR? The fact that he says he’s not scum?

Elaborate so we all can clearly understand your thought process.

If that was a fake claim, he would have had to guess a number of factors on how a town role would look, and then also be able to be counterclaimed on flavor alone. I'm not calling you scum, I'm hinting at using what you know if you are town, don't freak out like that.

[Surye]

If that was a fake claim, he would have had to guess a number of factors on how a town role would look, and then also be able to be counterclaimed on flavor alone. I'm not calling you scum, I'm hinting at using what you know if you are town, don't freak out like that.

1. You don't give any possibility to the fact that Mod can provide fake-claims? Noted.
2. You don't give any possibility that the Mod may have scrambled flavor in creating the Mafia? Noted.

You think the Tenth Doctor is a fake claim? Seriously? Don't even know what 2 means.

I'm guessing you don't have a town PM. VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[Surye]

Here's my claim. I am the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and I am Vanilla Town. Only me and my vote. So if you lynch me no probes you get save a PR, but alas you will miss scum. ALONSI!

Why would the tenth doctor be a vanilla townie? He is one of the most awesome doctors ever and has so many abilities that could be made into an equally awesome role. Also, I have no idea what you're saying in the last sentence. I think I'm ready to vote. 

If that was a fake claim, he would have had to guess a number of factors on how a town role would look, and then also be able to be counterclaimed on flavor alone. I'm not calling you scum, I'm hinting at using what you know if you are town, don't freak out like that.

What if he was given a fake role PM?

So you can't believe he would be a VT, but you believe he'd be out of the game, regulated to a mod provided fake claim?

[Surye]

He may be a fake claim or he may be scum or maybe he's not in the game or maybe he's something else. I still doubt he would be a vannilla townie.

I believe he is. The doctor is so great because he has no super powers. He can unlock doors. It's all in his intellect and charisma, the tools of a VT.

[Surye]

he has no super powers

Yes, He has no super powers at all. He's just an alien from millions of light years away from earth that can live forever, can time travel in a magical box that's size is basically limitless and has a sonic screwdriver that can pretty much do anything. That's also just among many other things.

Yet when he's in the thick of it, none of that matters. At least not on the good stories.

[Surye]

I believe he is. The doctor is so great because he has no super powers. He can unlock doors. It's all in his intellect and charisma, the tools of a VT.

Lets get into this then … who in the Dr. Who universe would you expect to be anything BUT VT then? Certainly none of his companions are no more inherently ‘powerful’ than the Doctor. Aside from Enemies you don’t have many Superhuman participants to draw from.

Outguessing the Mod is at best bad, bad Town play.

Exactly, stop doing.

[Surye]

EBWOP: Exactly, stop doing it.

[Surye]

I like Tar's case, and Nexus saying "I know he's scum but I'm not going to vote for him, even if he is still the largest wagon" is weak. Better case then the MoI case, as I can see a situation where he's missing the point and is still town.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Nexus

[Surye]

Exactly, stop doing.

You completely ignored his point. Regardless of whether he did it, you also did it and by telling him to stop doing it without acknowledging that you yourself are doing it then you are doing the exact same thing that he did. I find this very scummy.

FoS: Surye

Incorrect sir. I made an analysis based on the information I have that points to his claim being legit. He brought setup speculation into it.

[Surye]

You have no idea how much I am speculating and how much I am basing it on facts. And I have not spelled it out for a reason, but I believe his claim is more than likely true, and I stand behind everything I have said. And it is in towns best interest to drop this setup speculation now.

[Surye]

Do you want a claim?

You are at L-1.

[Surye]

Well, yes, but is there someone willing to hammer? Or is the wagon just going to disintegrate?

Scummy dismissal of the wagon, without addressing any of the reasons people are on it.

[Surye]

I see you still haven't figured it out. HINT: We're not lynching Snake today, period. That's just optimal play. Go looking for the player you think is second most likely to be scum.

What would be the point of me switching my vote to somebody else that "isn't going to be lynched today"? Besides, I already know my second and third picks for scum and if a large wagon builds up on them then I will switch my vote. Until then, I'm voting for who I think is scummiest.

Holy crap is this scummy. Way to setup future opportunistic bandwagoning, and withholding reads from town.

[Surye]

How have I withheld reads?

Who are your second and third picks for scum you already have?

[Surye]

CES and iamusername as I've said previously.

You're right, sorry, I checked your ISO again, and that was pretty much a week ago. Long day.

[Surye]

Holy crap is this scummy. Way to setup future opportunistic bandwagoning, and withholding reads from town.

This is a horrible, horrible attack.

1. Zang’s been forthcoming with his reads.
2. Zang’s content dwarfs yours this game.
3. When I get the chance I am going to review your voting record to see how well it slots with ‘opportunistic bandwagonning’.

1) He has a lot of content, but it's been a week since he's really mentioned those two, they weren't apperent to me, and he wasn't very clear. I've clarified this.
2) Sup kettle.
3) You do that.

[Surye]

I haven't said it yet, but Nexus' claim should not stop this lynch. It's very different from Snake's.

Zang, I really don't agree on iamusername, I think he's town.

[Surye]

Okay, I caught up with what I missed. I'm willing to say that Nexus is likely Town, but his reactions at his wagon so far have been extremely scummy. Looking at his iso, he goes from trying to start a counterwagon, to weakly defending a case, to flat-out aggression, to flailing. I'll be willing to vote him once it gets a bit closer to deadline, since I feel like there's a bit more conversation that we can extract first.

So which is it, do you think he is town or scum? I hope that fence post isn't hurting your ass too much

[Surye]

CES where are you

i can't see the rest of these jokers dropping a hammer any time soon

Everyone is so afraid of being the hammer. I think a Nexus lynch now is the optimum town play. We'll get a ton of information from it and the night kill(s). As far as D1s go, this has been a good one. I don't see anything more developing from the Nexus wagon, and if you don't think he's today's lynch, you're kidding yourself.

[Surye]

Okay, I caught up with what I missed. I'm willing to say that Nexus is likely

Town, but

his reactions at his wagon so far have been extremely scummy. Looking at his iso, he goes from trying to start a counterwagon, to weakly defending a case, to flat-out aggression, to flailing. I'll be willing to vote him once it gets a bit closer to deadline, since I feel like there's a bit more conversation that we can extract first.

So which is it, do you think he is town or scum? I hope that fence post isn't hurting your ass too much

Ugh. Bolded should say "Scum, since". I changed my mind part way through writing that post. This week has apparently consumed my last bits of logic.

Then why not drop the hammer? Do you agree that he is today's lynch? What are you waiting on?

[Surye]

Surye, would you mind pressing bv310 to actually say something today instead of challenging him to end the day?

With his correction, was that not saying something?

[Surye]

His "correction" might have been a cover for a scum slip. However, he really hasn't said anything today. You might have noticed that even though he is "caught up" that he ignored my request for his scum suspects. Townies generally want to give out there scum suspects and the reasoning behind the suspects in order to help town. bv310 isn't doing any of that. The only thing he has said since getting back is that he is willing to hammer Nexus. I think it is safe to say that he is purposely lurking and he is now on my willing to lynch list.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: bv310

Interesting, you are voting for him...suspicion makes sense, but what is the goal with the vote? To start a new wagon now? I like your line of reasoning, but I can't help but feel like the vote is trying to avoid the Nexus wagon, and this close to a deadline. Especially since you felt the need to post defensively that you weren't afraid to hammer.

[Surye]

Surye:

Exactly, stop doing.

You completely ignored his point. Regardless of whether he did it, you also did it and by telling him to stop doing it without acknowledging that you yourself are doing it then you are doing the exact same thing that he did. I find this very scummy.

FoS: Surye

Incorrect sir. I made an analysis based on the information I have that points to his claim being legit. He brought setup speculation into it.

How does an Eleventh Doctor flip affect this analysis?

It's interesting, but doesn't change it fundamentally.

[Surye]

Why aren't you dead yet?

I guess because my breadcrumb was so damn blatant that scum thought it was too good to be true. Too crumby to be crumb.

I can think of a much better choice for an investigative role:

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

He's scum. Any further questions?

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
Yaay, testable.

[Surye]

aVOTE: No Lynch

what.

[Surye]

Well, I don't fully believe Amy Pond as an investigative role

How is this assuredness, Snake?

Anyway,

since we appear to be massclaiming

(and if aren't, we really should be), I'll go first: River Song, 1-shot Vigilante. I shot Magna N1.

Where did you get that idea?

[Surye]

Alright...going to start with BV for obvious reasons here >__>

While all his posts are meh, the claim is the big part. Claims 1 shot vig that used his ability D1.
N1 the claim checks out with 2 kills.
N2 there is only 1 kill. We did still have the 1 shot jailkeeper though. (Did CMAR ever claim to use his ability?) Could have been a block but we don't know.
N3 there is also only 1 kill. With a dead doc and jailkeeper, I can't imagine that there is anything left to stop a kill. Of course, there is the chance of a double kill on the same target, but how likely is that to happen 1/2 nights?

With all this in mind, I find it hard to believe that he would be a 1shot scum kill or SK. With no CC to the kill, I believe there is no way BV is lying here. Going to say he is town.

I agree with this analysis, which is why a NL is a BAD IDEA. Also, the obvious investigative role is dead, we're not going to gain much with a NL other than the same problem as today.

I'd prefer a MC over a NL as it gives us information.

[Surye]

If it can't help, but won't hurt, I'm hesitant to do it. Why is it better? Why let a town die first when it won't help the situation?

[Surye]

The more I think about it, the more I agree. Okay. VOTE: No Lynch

[Surye]

Given that my last post was 6 posts ago, I really don't have that much to add. I like the idea of a no-lynch (as should be obvious), but I think there's some good information that can still come to light. First off, I'd like to know whether Surye believes me or not, and his reasoning for such.

I believe you, and Ant pretty much spelled it out. Sorry I haven't been posting, but nothing has changed since I last did. Hoppster asked for my reads, and I thought I was clear, but looking back I obviously didn't say everything I thought. If we NL, I want to do it as soon as possible, as I want scum to be shooting essentially blind. In this situation, the more information the town tries to get, the more likely scum can gain something useful.

[Surye]

UNVOTE: Okay I hate to be wishy washy on this, but I still think a guaranteed kill on bv gives any other power roles an unchecked night before a MC, that's why I liked it. But with this many people claiming already, I have to agree that now MC is kinda forced into being the best strategy.

4th Doctor, VT. Now you see why I believed the 10th Doctor claim.

[Surye]

Helloo-o-o-o! VOTE: CES

Is my obvious early bread crumbing, if you missed it

[Surye]

Rose Tyler, VT.

Surye, why did you feel the need to breadcrumb your name?

For fun, and a love of the flavor. I don't usually breadcrumb, but in this case, especially in the mindset of starting this game, it was like an inside joke among friends.

[Surye]

Gwen Cooper? Isn't she Torchwood? I don't remember Gwen appearing in Doctor Who! Hmm. Sounds like a bad safe claim to me. Not wanting to go for someone else that the others may already have.

Look at the first Page:

Dr Who Mafia: Return of the Time lords

Players:13
Requirement: 2 Mafia scum games
Characters: From the Dr Who Universe including Torchwood

And Gwen is pretty much the main charecter of Torchwood.

I don't like Surye's claim. I think one of him or snake is scum if not both. One doctor vanilla claim is hard enough to believe but two?

It's why I have fought so hard that there could, and IS, a way for a doctor to be a vanilla.

[Surye]

Possibly, but possibly not. In my experience Scum will always breadcrumb early on to setup their fake claim. Town don't need to hide anything as they don't ave to lie their way out of situations. I'm still not entirely happy with Zang being Torchwood & vanilla. In fact there's way too many vanilla claims and Ant has been on for a while. Im going to stick with my initial reaction though.

VOTE: Zang

I don't like this post for one reason, his vote did not end up on me. He also almost indirectly attacks me, with what I consider a better case than on Zang, but votes Zang.

Why would scum do that? Attacking me too strongly brings his claim into question. I know I didn't like the idea of him as scum before, but he wasn't confirmed, and this isn't helping. Would love for Ant to get in here...

[Surye]

Will be out of town till the 17th. I will be reading the game on my phone, and will reply, but will be limited on huge posts.

[Surye]

In fact i'd rather you lynch me to get the game moving than have nothing going on.

Calm down, we're just waiting on a replacement catchup.

[Surye]

Ok, that's freaky. My post disappeared.

Anyways, summary, bv=town, snake=scummy but I liked some day1 stuff, want to hear his response to Zang, etc.

Want to understand why no lynch is good when I'm always understood it to be bad.

Anything is particular anyone think I should pay attention to?

Yea, the doctor VT issue. You say snake is scummy, I'd like an opinion on this specifically?