Dr Who - Game over

[Zang]

CES-Why is it scummy not to vote on a RVS wagon? I can understand why it wouldn't be pro-town but that doesn't make it scummy.

Speaking of Zang, I hope he posts soon. I'd like to hear his reaction to a L-2 wagon so quick x

I'm shocked about how many people hate me, I'm angry that I missed RVS and im surprised that i can have such a big effect on the game without even posting but other than that I have no opinion on it. It was just an RVS wagon and as long as I'm not put up to L-1, I see nothing wrong with it.

I'm not really sure what your argument with Hoppster is about. I understand how it started but it seems like your just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I want to see Zang posts before I move off the L-2 wagon.

Why? How should my post affect your vote when you voted me for no reason? Also, what does the m in mfos stand for?

[Zang]

^scum

[Zang]

So why no vote, Zang?

Why not ask CES the same question?

I don't usually vote somebody based on only one post.

[Zang]

People hating you? Can't speak for the rest of the people voting you, but I wanted a large early bandwagon to force people to take sides early, and you happened to be a convenient target.

1. How do you get ‘hate’ out of an RVS wagon? What players specifically hate you?

The "people hating me" part was sort of a joke.

This is pinging my scumdar a little bit. Zang has acknowledged the wagon on him, but then he doesn't pay any attention to who is on it. I would expect town to be looking more carefully at the people on the bandwagon, whereas scum would just look more generally at the number of people on the wagon.

Ok, I forgot CES was on my wagon. But why should I pay attention to it? Even more so, how am I supposed to pay attention to it? It's just an RVS wagon. I don't even see how I'm paying attention to the number of people on it. As long as it doesn't get up to L-1 and everybody unvotes then I have no opinion on it.

Did the argument help give you a read on either of us?

No, why should it have?

Why have you said nothing useful or non-RVS related so far at all?

I'm not ant but it may be because it was only on page 2.

No PR.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

Also

FoS: iamusername

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

Minor FoS: SnakePlissken

Did you just miss the past 2 pages of scumhunting. Either way-

1. A year and a half although I recently took about a two month break.
2. Active lurking
3. The ood are my favorite but the daleks have the best episodes. The weeping angels scared me the most. The silence are also very interesting.

Innocent in-joke regarding a former game or covert attempt to reach out to a suspected traitor disguised as an in-joke?

Do you find everything scummy?

2. Why are you angry that you ‘missed’ RVS?

I like RVS.

3. You have no opinion on the wagon? If I was Town and arrived to find a L-2 wagon on me Page 2 I’d certainly have an opinion of some sort.

Why should I have an opinion on it? What sort of opinion am I supposed to have on it? IT WAS JUST RVS! It was reasonless, it gives me no insight on who is scum and who isn't and it was completely random.

ITT:

I completely agree.

RVS is not some separate part of the game that is independent from the rest. The notion of RVS is just the name we give to that awkward getting things rolling portion of the game.

I disagree. RVS is a separate part of the game. The point of it though is to get the real game started.

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

[Zang]

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

You have no way of knowing that. Things always look more obvious if you know what's going on. This is "informed minority" at its most basic.

I knew it was town vs town because I was scum.

[Zang]

My point was more this.-

my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

[Zang]

Feel free to disagree. You are still dead wrong. RVS is as valid a part of the game as any other. Scum have and will continue to be caught during RVS.

Any scum lynched because of the RVS is either because of chance or their stupidity.

1. You are saying that the first five people to post and vote in this game just happen to randomly select you? Tar’s post alone where he RVS voted you and prompted discussion of that fact should clearly indicate there was more to it than complete randomness … Tar had clear intent to drive discussion.

No, some did it to start discussion which I do consider to be a random vote because it could just as easily have been you or anybody else.

2. You should, if Town, have some opinion about who might be the scum on that wagon. Because if you are Town that means odds are good that at least 1 scum is there.

You could randomly pick any 5 people in this game and odds are good that at least 1  scum is on there and that is pretty much what you are doing. You are right, I could analyze and study those who voted for me but anything can be made to seem scummy. I would just be randomly choosing one of those. If there was anything obviously scummy then yes I would have pointed it out but there isn't. No matter how much I kid myself with elaborate and complex reasons, that one scum tell could just as well be town. I could say things like "he voted him as a RVS bus so he's scum" and I could say things like "he voted him and he's town so that makes him scum." or I could say that "He voted for him because it's a wagon and he wanted to gain town points so he is scum. All of those, I have seen as reasons to vote people. Meanwhile though scum is probably doing this "I'm going to vote him because I don't like him/played games with him before/other random reason". I really think that scum and town are more alike than you think.

Are you seriously writing this? It had EVERYTHING to do with you calling it a Town v Town battle. YOU KNEW IT WAS. Please don’t pretend that had you not been scum your opinion would have been exactly the same. Every uniformed majority player in that game had an opinion about who was or was not scum between Jack and I.

Yes, all the uniformed players but the lurkers didn't. At that point I was lurking pretty hard. The lurking as well as me calling it town vs town was actually because I was uninterested in the game and to lazy to properly analyze your posts because they were so boring. It had absolutely no relation to me being scum and anything I do rarely does except when claiming and possibly when only three players are left.

[Zang]

Why are you defending Ant's lack of content and then attacking SP's lack of content?

Ant was a page before snakes post and the only thing happening was you arguing with nexus. It was still debatable whether RVS ended or not. Besides, I didn't declare him as scum, I just said that I was minorly suspicious.

This claim is laughable. No matter how good you are at being scum, there is always going to be a difference and you're deluding yourself if you think you're an exception.

It's not because I'm so good at being scum, it's because I'm so bad at it. I just don't post with the intent to kill townies or purposely do scummy things in any way. I just play the same way when scum as I do when town and when town as I do when scum.

Also, how does me believing that show I'm scummy? Do you always try to lynch people at page three?

You don’t understand what I am saying. I’m not saying that scum are caught solely by RVS. I’m saying that RVS can and does contain valid information that can be used based on later play to catch scum.

I stand by my point. Any information in the RVS that helps to contribute to a scum lynch later in the day is either through chance or their stupidity.

That’s a pure straw-man. I am hardly picking these players out at random. The fact that the first five votes of the game just fell on you isn’t random behavior.

I don't see how that's a strawman. You are picking randomly. Your picking the  first five people to post, anybody else could have posted in their place and you would be talking about them instead. The fact that the votes fell on my is random behavior. The first person to post could have just as easily picked somebody else to vote for. 

There should be at least one scumbag on the RVS wagon on you, based on the speed of the wagon - and on the raw probabilities, for that matter. In fact, with that kind of wagon speed there is a decent chance of TWO scumbags on the wagon. If you're town, why not try to figure out who it is?

Like I have already said, I agree that there is most likely scum on it, but any attempt I make to find scum, if I do find scum then it would be mostly due to chance. Although, if there was something that was obviously scummy then I would vote for them.

How much experience had you had with town vs. town squabbles D1 before that game? See, the reason I was willing to call Hoppster vs. Nexus town vs. town is because I've made a point of trying to identify them early after watching them derail townies (including myself) a few times (Mafia 87 D1 and D2 comes to mind).

Besides that game I've had little experience with calling battles town vs town. Ive already given my actual reasons for calling it town vs town.

Also, Zang: Who do you think is scum and why? It's four pages into the game, after the RVS, and I haven't seen any posts from you about that rather important subject.

I'm voting CES and I FoSed two other people. If that doesn't show who I'm suspicious of then I don't know what does.

[Zang]

And Zang apparently doesn't understand the game of mafia on even the most basic level.

How exactly do I not understand it? Also, your lack of content really bothers me.

Unvote, vote: Snake

You're voting somebody because they're V/LA? How is that scummy?

Why not push one of them to see if they would do something scummy?

I don't understand your question.

I'm reasoning plenty, just fyi.

No, you're not. You may have reasoning but as long as you don't post it then as far as I'm concerned, you have no reasoning.

[Zang]

Nope, that's not why.

Then what is? I don't see any reasons with your vote.

*shrug* It's a meaningful distinction, whether you like it or not.

There may be a distinction for you but there is no distinction at all for me. How do I know if you even have reasoning or if you're scum voting randomly?

Kill: Zang

Vote: Ant_to_the_Max

FoS: Surye, bv310, pappums_rat

Really? This has been so overused that it becomes almost obvious that it's a fake day kill gambit when you post it. What did you hope to gain from this?

2) I've played with Zang twice before (he was town both times). I don't recognize the Zang I see  playing here; he isn't lurking and he is producing some content. Which doesn't help at all since someone just sent in a daykill on him.

You can't really judge me on that. The first game was only my third game and the second I only made two posts in. Although I did recently take a break from mafia and I'm only in two games right now that help prevent me from lurking.

*hops*

Unvote, vote: Ant

What? Why?

Why assume a fake daykill instead of a daykill that was stopped by something (bulletproof shield or the like)?

I know if I'm bulletproof or not. Now are you going to answer why you used a fake daykill gambit?

[Zang]

0) To get people to actually, you know, POST.
1) An off chance that, if you were VI (or enterprising scum), you might respond with a "bah, go team" post.
2) A set of reactions pursuant to the scumhunting method mentioned in the fake daykill post, most importantly one that I was ALSO looking for when I made the third-vote RVS wagon. That tell is tied to something involving how I played the daykill gambit; I will not elaborate further at this time. Nobody has clearly dropped it yet.

Now, about that underlined section: Please identify all games you know of where a fake daykill gambit was tried. NOW.

0. Ok, I'm fine with getting people to post but there are other ways.
1. Did you think I was a VI?
2. I'm not sure what tell your looking for so I'll hold off on questioning you further until you reveal what it is.

The first time I saw the gambit was here- 
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13811
Coincidentally, Magna was also in that game.
A very similar variant of the gambit was used here-
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13693
It was also used here-
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 91&start=0
I think theres another game that I saw it in but I don't remember the name. 

How many times have I been in with a real day kill? 0

Do you think I am scum? Why?

I am suspicious of you but I don't see what that has to do with what you quoted.

@zang: You made four posts in that second game. The last post of which had you asking how you were lurking more than three other players. Yeah, instead of providing content you were asking how you were worse than others. In this particular game there are actually people providing less content than yourself which comes as a great shock to me. I'm not sure if you changed your play style, are actually interested in this theme, or scum trying to make it past day 2. What I can say is that I don't have a good read on you.

Ok, I got the amount of posts wrong but still that isn't really a good game to judge my play off of. 

[Zang]

Uhh, not liking this reaction at all.

Can't quite put my finger on it but my gut is POSITIVELY SCREAMING to me that this is a scum reaction to an apparent DK-gambit on himself.

Feels a bit like scum gleefully mocking somebody who fake DK'd him.

It wasn't an apparent fake day kill gambit, it was proven that it was a fake day kill gambit when the mod posted. Also why do you think that I'm scum gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me instead of town gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me.

I'm a sonic screwdriver.

Is this a name claim? Why are you name claiming? Why haven't you provided any content?

1) Still think so (mostly based on posting style and reactions to pressure, I think), with the caveat that one can be a Village Idiot and still be scum.

How can a village idiot be scum if village is the same thing as town? Besides the way you worded it made it seem that you thought village idiot was different than scum. 

Useful links, those. Interestingly, you DID drop a version of the tell I was looking for in one of the linked games - but not all, and not in the one where you were scum.

I should tell you that the game I was scum in, I had Pre knowledge of the gambit.

In fact, why are you still voting CES?

Extreme lack of content, not posting his reasoning for his votes and ignoring half of the thread.

[Zang]

Zang what do you mean am I name claiming? Are you role fishing?

No, how is asking why your name claiming similar at all to role fishing? You did say "I'm a sonic screwdriver" So it is a logical assumption to say that you are name claiming which you have no reason to do. If you weren't name claiming then what were you doing? 

No it wasn't. I never post reads on day 1. At this rate of posting you'll be lucky to get anything on Day 2 as well. And the aggressiveness is starting to seep out. I can feel your anger.

So you refuse to scum hunt for the first two days?

Nexus, I didn't say I wasnt going to provide content, it's just at this point there is pretty much nothing to go on until some form of death has occured, by the way of lynch and/or kill via scum or vigs. Outside of that we are just shooting into the wind. Oh unless someone scum slips or follows a meta pattern. Like you are currently.

While I agree that lynching anybody is basically a shot in the wind, that doesn't mean that you don't do anything. Although you didn't say that you wouldn't provide content, your actions did because you still haven't provided any content.

Major FoS: SnakePlissken

Unvote, vote: Snake

Why are you voting him. You're basically doing the same thing he is but at least he is defending his lack of content while you do nothing except vote for people.

Overall CES is more valuable than you are. (don't take that as a compliment, CES)

But according to your reasoning, he's only valuable if he's dead.

Last I checked, village idiot meant a weak player in general. They're more likely to be town (due to role assignment probability if nothing else), but I've seen VI-scum before.

And last time I checked, a village is the same thing as a town and somebody that's part of the town can't be scum. A village idiot is a townie that plays similar to amateur scum. You've never heard somebody use "I think he's just a 
VI" as a reason to not think somebody is scum?

Also, I didn't say that village idiot was different from scum, I said that village idiot was different from ENTERPRISING scum (i.e, scum smart enough to drop a fake well-written "bah, go town" post in response to the fake daykill). There's a difference.

It still seemed to me that you implied that VI was town. As you said enterprising scum would say "bah, go town" to seem like town but it seemed to me like you thought that a VI would be the actual townie that says "bah, go town".

[Zang]

Failing that if I have o be drawn on day 1 I will throw in random comments to gain reactions, hence the screwdriver comment. It will generally draw out an eager scum or role fisher. So the screwdriver gambit gave me a town response from CES, Nexus usual aggression and Zang, drawing attention to a role. Which if your town you keep to yourself to protect town.

I wasn't drawing attention to the role, I was asking why you would claim that name. They're completely different, I didn't ask you what your role was and I didn't ask for information about your role. All I wanted to know why you name claimed because as town, you should have no reason to name claim so I wanted an explanation for your scummy actions. What's wrong about that?

I should explain my stance a bit better. I don't like o POST reads on day 1, instead I like o stop, watch, read and study everyone's style. That way I can make better judged assumptions backed up with quad evidence from kill motivations.

It's fine that you want to stop, watch and read but thats useless unless you post what you find witch is important especially in day 1. Also, I really hate when people try to find kill motivation you have absolutely no way of knowing why scum killed someone unless you are scum. First there are the obvious choices for each kill, then there are scum trying to frame other people by killing the obvious choice, next there are not obvious and complex reasons for killing somebody, there are also role related reasons for killing somebody and lastly, you have no idea whether it's a scum kill, vig kill or third party kill. There are just too many reasons why one person could kill somebody else and too many people that could have killed that person to decide who is scum or not based off of it,

[Zang]

And last time I checked, a village is the same thing as a town and somebody that's part of the town can't be scum. A village idiot is a townie that plays similar to amateur scum. You've never heard somebody use "I think he's just a
VI" as a reason to not think somebody is scum?

Having a null read on someone is pretty much the same as not thinking someone is scum. The phrase VI has no connotations of alignment.

Snake, why did you ask question #2 of your random questions?

I dont understand.

[Zang]

That as maybe Zang, but that's how I like to play.

You may like to play that way but it's still a bad way to play. I like lurking and randomly voting but I try not to do it because it doesn't catch scum. 

Yup and a dead snake is worth less to the town than a dead ces, but that isn't a strong enough reason for me to vote ces. Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough lynches to get rid of all the dead weight in this town before we lose.

I'm still in favor of a CES lynch. If we lynch any dead weight I would like it to be him.

[Zang]

Unvote
VOTE: Surye

Why did everybody start voting surye?

VOTE: Suyre

I believe this is now L-1 let's see what happens next.

You're willing to put somebody that you don't think is scummy in danger of being lynched just to get reactions that you won't even use to scum hunt for another day?

The first five votes all landed directly on you. That’s not random behavior no matter how you slice it.

That is random. Most of the individual votes on me weren't random but the votes as a whole were random. They could just as easily have fallen on you or anybody else in this game instead of me.

[Zang]

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was retarding day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that. And he posts like zero content most of the time...but that's CES. :/

Just because he is CES does not give him a free pass to be scummy.

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

He's my third scummiest read behind Snake and CES. Like them he isn't really doing anything although I do think he puts slightly more content in his posts than CES. Although i'm starting to rethink this with CES's latests posts being somewhat helpful.

Please elaborate why you feel the need to use FOSes instead of moving your vote. CES does not appear to be a viable wagon at this point. Why are you keeping your vote languishing on a 2 vote and unviable wagon?

I am considering switching my vote. I usually vote for who I think is scummiest whether it's a viable wagon or not until one of my other suspects gets to L-2 or L-1. In this case, I would like to see his response to his vote on Surye before I vote for him.

As weird as this sounds, it's like something from a movie. The good guy, faced with the bad guy, pulls out his pistol and shoots. The bullet whizzes past the bad guy.

And then, the vibe I get from your post: the villain cackles evilly, and says "Oh dear, Mr. Bond, you are a poor shot. I really don't know how you ever thought you would defeat me (mwahahaha)," or some other derogatory remark, mocking the hero's valiant but ultimately futile attempt to kill him.

Its not that he missed be but that he never shot. It would be more like if the guy took a pistol, shot someone and water came out. Then the person, soaking wet and confused, asked why he would do that. 

[Zang]

Add that to his terrible "MoI did something that looks suspicious if Zang flips scum, Vote: MoI" thing, and I just don't get why everyone else seems to be fine with letting him fly under the radar here.

Im confused. Who are you talking about here? I thought you were talking about Hoppster but you just said that he was town. If you don't like how they're flying under the radar then why don't you vote for them? I'm also still confused about you vote on Surye.

Well, mostly not my fault. I did consider it more probable prior to the fake-daykill that Zang would drop a "bah, go town" or similar than a "bah, go scum", as I had a weak town read on Zang at the time

I'm not sure what they do on what other site you go to but do you even see people saying "bah, go town" or "bah, go scum" when they actually are lynched or even normally daykilled?

the problem that Zang's tone after the fakekill does not match his lack of vote for me).

There are a lot scummier people than you.

[Zang]

But you didn't simply ask Tar why he did that ("Why did you do that, Tar?").

I guess it is more like you said but I never really meant to mock him.

@ Zang + iam: Thoughts on pappums?

Currently none but I'll probably go back and look over him later.

I only sheeped onto Suyre's vote as I was trying to get some more info and push us into Day 2 where some reasonable evidence would be before us and I would have more to work with other than the fact that Nexus is scum.

There is plenty of reasonable evidence that we already have, if not for you then at least for everybody else. Just because you're too lazy to scum hunt without somebody being dead does not mean that you should try to randomly lynch someone just because they're at L-2.

@Hoppster For me in both your examples about Nexus agression are one and the same Nexs Agression= Nexus Scum. This may look like Im tunelling but hey I've seen the pattern before from him. For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

Why don't you find one of the games and post the link here? Also, if he was aggressive in that game because it was off-site, have you looked at any of his scum games on mafiascum? Is he just as aggressive in thoose?

Calling it now.

Scum: Snake, Ant, Zang

Why exactly am I scum? Even Ant and snake, why are they scum?

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes. I have on NexuScum, although I sheeped onto Suyre to get the game moving a bit which in hindsight was too clever or pro town I can assure you I am town.

While I agree with your case on CES. You're just as bad. It's page 9 and this is pretty much your first attempt to scumhunt. Also, providing little content and not bothering to scum hunt are the same thing.

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

What do you think of CES? Why do you need a VC analysis? How would that help?

[Zang]

1) Try reading the thread and/or your role PM.

My role PM shows me the exact opposite of what you said. As for the thread, what exactly do you want me to read?

2) Gut

You're willing to unquestionably declare somebody as scum based only on your gut?

RE not voting snake: my vote would have put him at L-1. I didn't want to do that. There was more to discuss in this day and I don't want to end this day prematurely. We have a month deadline.

What exactly else is there to discuss?

Here's my claim. I am the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and I am Vanilla Town. Only me and my vote. So if you lynch me no probes you get save a PR, but alas you will miss scum. ALONSI!

Why would the tenth doctor be a vanilla townie? He is one of the most awesome doctors ever and has so many abilities that could be made into an equally awesome role. Also, I have no idea what you're saying in the last sentence. I think I'm ready to vote. 

Unvote
Vote: SnakePlissken

If that was a fake claim, he would have had to guess a number of factors on how a town role would look, and then also be able to be counterclaimed on flavor alone. I'm not calling you scum, I'm hinting at using what you know if you are town, don't freak out like that.

What if he was given a fake role PM?

2. You don't give any possibility that the Mod may have scrambled flavor in creating the Mafia? Noted.

Magna also makes an excellent point here.

[Zang]

He may be a fake claim or he may be scum or maybe he's not in the game or maybe he's something else. I still doubt he would be a vannilla townie.

[Zang]

he has no super powers

Yes, He has no super powers at all. He's just an alien from millions of light years away from earth that can live forever, can time travel in a magical box that's size is basically limitless and has a sonic screwdriver that can pretty much do anything. That's also just among many other things.

[Zang]

Yet when he's in the thick of it, none of that matters. At least not on the good stories.

I suppose but if you took away everything that I already mentioned, there wouldn't even be a story.

It would be difficult to believe that the Doctor wouldn't be in this game. -- it is called Doctor Who after all. More specifically: Return of the Time Lords -- the flavor was pulled directly from David Tennant's last story arc as the Doctor "The End of Time, Part One". Barring a counter-claim, I believe Snake. I don't see what is so difficult about this.

I never said that he wouldn't be in this game if Snake was scum.

[Zang]

Spelling = scum these days does it Nexus? To those suggesting that I may have been given a fake PM by the mod are the ones most in possession of one as most town wouldn't even consider that as a first response to a VT claim.

For my money. Scum Team - NexusScum, Zang & MoI

Nexus does have a point about the spelling. If the word was in your role PM then it should have been spelled correctly. Also why would suggesting that you have a fake role PM make me scum? You're just calling everyone that doesn't believe you scum. If you are so sure that they are scum then why aren't you voting for one of them.

That said, vanilla claim is too risky for a scumbag (especially on a character that is begging for a power role) and that name claim *is* extremely solid. I'll toss Snake into the "not lynching D1" pile.

Yes but you said it yourself that it was "nice WIFOM fodder".

Exactly, stop doing.

You completely ignored his point. Regardless of whether he did it, you also did it and by telling him to stop doing it without acknowledging that you yourself are doing it then you are doing the exact same thing that he did. I find this very scummy.

FoS: Surye

[Zang]

Incorrect sir. I made an analysis based on the information I have that points to his claim being legit. He brought setup speculation into it.

That analysis is at least partly speculation about why the doctor wouldn't have any abilities though. Although I also am guilty of setup speculation.

Second part is very, very bad. Outguessing the Mod is a perfectly viable tactic - hell, it's one of the main points of asking for a claim in the first place. You just have to be good at it.

No, it is never good to try to outguess the mod even if you are good at it, it always boils down to a bunch of WIFOM.

Tell me, Zang: Where exactly did Snake say that the word "Allons-y" appeared in his role PM? I didn't see any claim to that effect.

He didn't but he also never said that it didn't. I also said IF it was in his role, I never said it was.

It is, but last I checked scum claiming vanilla outside of massclaim was pretty rare, and that name claim IS probably the best possible name claim this game (unless one low-probability scenario turns out to be true, in which case it is the worst possible case).

But what if he claimed the Doctor knowing that it would counter his vanilla claim.

Also, Zang: Thoughts on Nexus please.

My thoughts on Nexus have changed between a light town read to a light scum read throughout the game. Currently, It's pretty neutral. If you want, I'll evaluate more later when I have more time.

It's a pity you had to be scum, Zang. Oh, well.

So I'm scum because I don't trust the claim of one of the scummiest people in the game?

As far as outguessing the mod -- one doesn't have to look back very far to find a companion who would be well suited to a power role.

But look at The Doctor, there are several suitable roles for him but assuming the Snake's claim is true, he has none. That's why the mod shouldn't be outguessed. On the other hand, if snake is scum then none of this matters.

[Zang]

You have no idea how much I am speculating and how much I am basing it on facts. And I have not spelled it out for a reason, but I believe his claim is more than likely true, and I stand behind everything I have said. And it is in towns best interest to drop this setup speculation now.

So why didn't you say that when Magna asked instead of redirecting the blame on him?

Actually, Zang, it was your FoS on Surye that pushed me over the edge to vote for you, not the vote for Snake.

Why? Surye did something that I saw as very scummy.

As for the other thing, I thought of it. If I decide to believe you and Snake flips town are you willing to let us lynch you next?

Snake is currently my biggest scum read so I would be willing to sacrifice myself if it means that you'll lynch him.

1) In case you hadn't figured it out, GTFO Snake. Now.

Why? I think he is scum so I'm voting for him.

2) Nexus is still scum, join the wagon or explain why you aren't.

I'm voting for who I think is scum not who you think is scum.

3) Hey look, bv310 has enough time to set up his new Mini Theme. I don't see any bv310 posts here.

Shouldn't modding a mini theme game take priority over playing in one?

I can think of a much better choice for an investigative role:



I mean, Martha did about as much actual doctoring as she did actual policework, so...

Actually this makes me think. What if there are more than one doctors such as the newest doctor in this game then it would make more sense if the 10th doctor is scum or a fake claim. Especially, sense it was specified that he was the tenth doctor instead of just the doctor.

Here is the thing that really bugs me, though. All of you who find Snake's claim scummy are arguing that the mod has done something sneaky by mixing up alignments of roles or given out major character fake claims.

I don't find snake's claim that scummy and normally I would tend to believe it as neutral. However, Snake was very scummy earlier in the game and I don't believe his claim should clear him of that.

Well, yes, but is there someone willing to hammer? Or is the wagon just going to disintegrate?

[/quote]

It can't disintegrate until you give them a reason to and refusing to claim won't. You shouldn't need to ask if you should claim at L-1.

[Zang]

Did you miss the part where Surye spoke up about Snake's claim? Even Nexus pointed it out.

I FoSed him based only on that post.

Grah! You drive me crazy, Zang. Everytime I think we're on the same page you say something that makes me think we aren't. I don't think we are talking about the same thing anymore; so, no.

What? I don't understand. 

I see you still haven't figured it out. HINT: We're not lynching Snake today, period. That's just optimal play. Go looking for the player you think is second most likely to be scum.

What would be the point of me switching my vote to somebody else that "isn't going to be lynched today"? Besides, I already know my second and third picks for scum and if a large wagon builds up on them then I will switch my vote. Until then, I'm voting for who I think is scummiest.

Do you think Nexus is scum?

I already answered this.

[Zang]

How have I withheld reads?

[Zang]

CES and iamusername as I've said previously.

[Zang]

1) He has a lot of content, but it's been a week since he's really mentioned those two, they weren't apperent to me, and he wasn't very clear. I've clarified this.

That's because neither of them have posted anything in a week.

Zang, I really don't agree on iamusername, I think he's town.

Do you always find people who do absolutely nothing town? 

The bit in bold is scum qualifying their fake-claim - "LOOK GAIZ THIS DUDE ACTUALLY EXISTS".

Well, roles usually have background information and Wilfred isn't a very well known character.

Why would the prescence of other incarnations of the Doctor in this game mean that specifically the 10th Doctor makes more sense as a scum or fake claim?

The doctor is such a powerful and innocent role that it doesn't seem very likely but if there were more than one doctor then it would probably be more likely that one is scum or a fake claim. The fact that he claimed the 10th doctor instead of just The Doctor supports this.

This may sound weird, but could you read what Rufflig said again and then answer it again for me please?

Why? I already answered it.

[Zang]

The Doctor was a doctor? I never saw that coming.

Starting Friday,

I will be V/LA next week

possibly until July 4. I'm not sure if I'll have Internet access. I'd rather not be replaced but if the mod thinks I should then I'm fine with it.

[Zang]

I have internet access but ill still have limited access the rest of the week.

Vote:No Lynch

Given that it's MyLo, it's either massclaim or no lynch. I prefer MC

Why? massclaiming now would just out one more power role than we need to and it would most likely influence who the mafia kill tonight.

I don't see how the no lynch helps at all, we've only hit one scum thus far, we dont have the option of not trying.

It's Mylo meaning that if we mislynch then we lose the game assuming that there are two scum left. If we no lynch then tommorow we will be in lylo but with one less possible mafia because of who was killed that night.

[Zang]

Bv, why did you shoot magna?

[Zang]

bv, why were you so eager to claim (first)?

Bv, why did you shoot magna?

As for No-Lynching, what would we really gain from it? Would we really be able to tell anything from the NK?

An extra kill would eliminate them as possible scum and thus it would also increase the chances of somebody else being scum. Depending on who was killed that can be a big deal. For example, what if the person that would be lynched today with a regular lynch would instead be killed tonight after a no lynch. It could drastically change the outcome of the game because a different person would have to be lynched the next day.

[Zang]

If we no lynch then we dont need to massclaim. Stop trying to rolefish.

Bv, you didnt answer me. Why is massclaiming better than no lynching? Also, why did you want to get massclaiming out of the way?

[Zang]

Also on my hoppster, why wouldnt I want a no lynch any longer? Right now, As for my read bv. I didnt really notice him until today which really doesnt help and theres also him claiming early and trying to get a massclaim when one is not needed. I'd say he's gradually climbing my scum list.

[Zang]

EBWOP that should say "Also hoppster,"

[Zang]

It is unlikely but not impossible and there are other ways that magna could have been killed.

[Zang]

Vote:Unvote?

[Zang]

Hoppster, what are your thoughts on Lynch vs No Lynch?

[Zang]

With all this in mind, I find it hard to believe that he would be a 1shot scum kill or SK. With no CC to the kill, I believe there is no way BV is lying here. Going to say he is town.

Ok, this makes sence.

I agree with this analysis, which is why a NL is a BAD IDEA. Also, the obvious investigative role is dead, we're not going to gain much with a NL other than the same problem as today.

I'd prefer a MC over a NL as it gives us information.

How is a no lynch a bad idea? It can't hurt us. At worst, we'll just be in the same problem tommorow like you said and we can massclaim then.

[Zang]

So, Zang, you definitely want a No Lynch?

I see a no lynch as the best course of action in the current situation.

If it can't help, but won't hurt, I'm hesitant to do it. Why is it better? Why let a town die first when it won't help the situation?

As i've explained twice and bv just explained it can and will help.

[Zang]

AAaaaah.


Zang, Surye, updated bv reads pronto. I know you've said/hinted your reads previously but I want them as of this post.

Bv is neutral. his play hasnt been good at all but Ant does have a point.

[Zang]

Unvote

I was really hoping that scum would be too stupid to kill bv but I guess now it's useless.

I still think Snakes's scum. He gave us pretty much nothing on day 1 and said that he would post his reads on day 2 or 3 now it's day 4 and he still hasn't really done anything. Plus Hoppster has a good point. But before I vote for him, I want to know if we are massclaiming or not.

[Zang]

I guess i'll start the massclaim. I'm Gwen Cooper, a Vanilla Townie.

[Zang]

Gwen Cooper? Isn't she Torchwood? I don't remember Gwen appearing in Doctor Who! Hmm. Sounds like a bad safe claim to me. Not wanting to go for someone else that the others may already have.

Look at the first Page:

Dr Who Mafia: Return of the Time lords

Players:13
Requirement: 2 Mafia scum games
Characters: From the Dr Who Universe including Torchwood

And Gwen is pretty much the main charecter of Torchwood.

I don't like Surye's claim. I think one of him or snake is scum if not both. One doctor vanilla claim is hard enough to believe but two?

[Zang]

Everybody's claimed VT. There are no more power roles left besides possibly Ant. Besides, the scum PR's would also get to do their work.

[Zang]

Gwen Cooper? Isn't she Torchwood? I don't remember Gwen appearing in Doctor Who! Hmm. Sounds like a bad safe claim to me. Not wanting to go for someone else that the others may already have.

Look at the first Page:

Dr Who Mafia: Return of the Time lords

Players:13
Requirement: 2 Mafia scum games
Characters: From the Dr Who Universe including Torchwood

And Gwen is pretty much the main charecter of Torchwood.

I don't like Surye's claim. I think one of him or snake is scum if not both. One doctor vanilla claim is hard enough to believe but two?

It's why I have fought so hard that there could, and IS, a way for a doctor to be a vanilla.

But two doctor's being vanilla?

[Zang]

I agree that there are too many vanila claims.

Vote: SnakePlissken

Why would the mod include a warning that the game includes torchwood charecters if there are no torchwood charecters?

[Zang]

So your saying that you want me to vote for you? I can do that, but my feeling currently is that The Doctors are the vanillas.

You're ignoring Surye's point. He doesn't want you to vote for him but he's criticizing you for not voting him when he thinks you should have.

However I do still feel that Zangs claim is a lie.

Are you purposefully ignoring my defense?

I corrected myself in the following post. Way to mislead everyone Hop.

Actually, your post is what is misleading. You said that you “just looked back at the vanillas” which doesn't seem to include the non-vanilla doctor. Also after you realized this, you did not update your post. Do you still think that Surye is town even though not all the doctors are town?

What asking for a Prod is deflection?

It's a deflection when the person your asking to be prodded is already being replaced.

So you want to lynch me and set yourself up for the loss.

That's assuming that you're town and while you know whether you are town or not, nobody else does. It is very scummy to assume otherwise.

[Zang]

In fact i'd rather you lynch me to get the game moving than have nothing going on.

if we lynched you. If you were town as you say, there would be no game to go on. I think this might be a scum slip.

Really. A frustrated and unfortunately bored one does. Why would scum in MYLO offer to get themseves lynched? When you this close to winning you could coast to victory.

Because, unlike the town, scum can still win if they are lynched. So, if you were lynched and were scum then the game would move on.

[Zang]

If you really want to get activity moving, you could respond to hoppster's post as well as mine instead of just ignoring them.

[Zang]

OK what do you wanna know then?

I want you to respond to my post. Everything, that I wanted to know I already posted.

[Zang]

Want to understand why no lynch is good when I'm always understood it to be bad.

No Lybch is usually good in Mylo. Your'e giving scum a free kill. Therefore the town to scum ratio goes from 2/6 to 2/5 and giving us a better chance to lynch scum in lylo. But that doesnt matter now anyway because everybody except you has claimed.

No. I Just dont believe you.

Is there an reason other than my claim that you have for me being scum?

If you read that post I said that I checked back, which was on page 1 at the updated list of deaths. I looked there and recinded my sumisation. I am more willing to believe Suyre at this point than you.

But you didn't say all that, you just said that you looked back at the vanillas which could easily have been misenterprited by Hoppster but then you accused him of being misleading.

[Zang]

I didn't mean to post that yet.

I agree that there are too many vanila claims.

Vote: SnakePlissken

Why would the mod include a warning that the game includes torchwood charecters if there are no torchwood charecters?

At the risk of tunelling. This vote for me was the post directly after my vote on Zang. In answer to your Torchwood question, in my view this was used for the inclusion of Captain Jack, who is both. For the sake of the Mod getting harassed over which programme he is truly from, and also to allow ZangScum a character in that programme which differentiates him from the Who. For me it is simply a case of bad fake claim.

There is no question over which show he was originally in.

Captain Jack Harkness is a fictional character played by John Barrowman in Doctor Who and its spin-off series, Torchwood.

He first appears in the 2005 Doctor Who episode "The Empty Child"

and reappears in the remaining episodes of the 2005 series as a companion of the ninth incarnation of the series' protagonist the Doctor. Jack becomes the central character in the adult-themed Torchwood, and returns in the 2007 series of Doctor Who, reuniting with the tenth incarnation of the Doctor, and again for the 2008 series and a 2010 special.

Why would it matter which one he was originally in though? As long as he was in the show at some point then, it wouldn't be needed to include the warning that there will be charecters from torchwood. The mod also wouldn't include that warning if there weren't actually any Torchwood charecters in the game.

[Zang]

How can someone that's so scummy be town?

[Zang]

Hoppster, I never really expected you.

Ant, I was planning on lynching you after snake.

Snake, I told you Gwen Cooper was town.