New York 134: Planet of Hats (Scum Win!)

[Thor665]

Vote: Diety Kabuto

I don't know jily enough to want to PL her.

@SleepyKrew - are you aware of DK as a player?

[Thor665]

bvoight and Reck can be town.

DK is now a quality lynch, not just a policy one.
Pallisade can be scum too.
I've been part of a secret hydra and have had to confer both as town and as scum - I consider that neutral and will be directing Vigs later. I'm more bearded than Reck so should probably be listened to more.

[Thor665]

I missed a whole page;

It gets rid of the most annoying player on the site faster.

I can think of at least one player I actually consider worse than DK, I think I was PLing him in Superhero too.

Is there anyone here who honestly thinks there will be another 7 people voting him in the matter of about 17 hours? I honestly doubt it. Quite honestly, that's more than just far-fetched, it's pretty much impossible.

Therefore, I don't see anything bad about my reason.

What about when you come in and defend him from the pressure he's getting? I really don't grok your play - do you want to pressure him or defend him?

How many games have you actually played with DK, what EXACTLY did he do to upset you?

If I don't get some answers soon I am going to assume this is an unjustified policy lynch and have some serious issues with those who are so passionate about this. Policy lynches are dangerous as is- so if we are willing to get rid of someone regardless of alliance there needs to be good reason because if he's town we are attacking our own numbers.

I think I've played two. Specific issue - he is a weak player, and has been lynched Day 1 in both of the games as town if I recall correctly. Not a good sign, is it? I won't say he upset me, i will say I see him as a less than optimally valuable player. Now, sit back and enjoy the PL for what it is or start something new - I find issues with PLs to be actually less valid than PLs in the grand scheme of valid lynch reasons, so...

[Thor665]

Looking things over.

Vote: Swag

Baaaaa.

[Thor665]

bvoight and Reck can be town.

Remarkably unclear. Anyone can be anything. Care to clarify your meaning?

Odd. I also offered up scum reads with about the same level of clarity, you apparently had no issue with that. Here's a clarification of my meaning: I'm not lynching them today because they look pretty blatantly town.
Do you disagree? Do you want to ramp one of them up as a wagon? I'm not sure why you have issues with a town read - clarify please?

@Jilly - you want DK to play better, so you're going to help pressure him to the point where he's flapping around desperately at his attackers and then are going to help defend him...am I missing part of the strategy here? How does any of that help generate better play from DK?

[Thor665]

Again, All I have to go off for DK is what I have seen from him THIS GAME. I personally will not trust the words of anyone here. You guys say he's a threat to the town due to shoddy play, I can see how that probably is the case, my opinion of him already is not very good and by the end of the game I might wholeheartedly agree with everyone here.

You could, y'know, click on his username and look at games he's posted in and draw some conclusions yourself if you're totally unwilling to trust anyone here (despite over half of us being town). Narrowing your scope to this game only seems self-defeating and pointless.

[Thor665]

Thor: I'm less concerned with your scumreads as I am with your townreads. Surely you understand why?

I do not want to wagon either Reck or bvoigt at this time. However, I am also not clearing them as town.

1. Nope, no idea.

- If I'm scum I'm either pointing out buddies or limiting mislynch maneuvers later. Win for town.
- If I'm town than by having town reads I allow myself to hopefully narrow in on scum more accurately via PoE. Whether or not you agree with my town reads is MEANINGLESS unless you think they're scum and want to wagon them up.

2. That's fine. I am clearing them. Proceed.

[Thor665]

Both Celebloki and BeaverWeasel can slip into prob scum territory. They're not in the pool yet, but they are dangling their toes in to check the temperature.
Parabollocks looks pretty bad, he can go play in the scum pool. If Swag flips scum I want to lynch him next.

[Thor665]

I also find it amusing that Thor was the main advocate of his PL in that game.

I'm pretty sure I was advocating Tempz - not DK.

@KoC - What are you contributing though? Poking fun at DK is probably emotionally fulfilling, but it hardly impresses me, and I impress really easy.

[Thor665]

@Celebloki - I did say that...about Tempz.

I nominate taro for vigging over DK - that took some effort on his part.

[Thor665]

@Celebloki - I did say that...about Tempz.

I nominate taro for vigging over DK - that took some effort on his part.

If you are going to vig me, it will be like I was never even here -.-

I know how to Smurf things up you know --'

No, I am tired of his constant bullying and him acting like he's Smurf when he's really not.

1. I don't think I was ever bullying you.
2. I actually asked for someone OTHER than you to be vigged.
3. I am the Smurf.
4. Read the game or replace out please. I don't mind "bad" players, I do mind players that aren't playing the game.

[Thor665]

@bvoight - and the timing of the self-vote, yes.

[Thor665]

That level of inattentiveness is a trait shared by many people who live in Vigbait, USA.
Current population: you.

[Thor665]

You unvoted and then voted, you're un-slashed on Swag.

[Thor665]

@bvoight - and the timing of the self-vote, yes.

So is this more of a policy vig, or do you consider him more likely to be scum because of it?

I feel like I'm getting this questioning in drips and drabs that could have been better served by just asking me to explain my reasoning;

I do personally consider him more likely scum, but would call the vig request a policy vig. Basically it breaks down thusly; there is a lot going on in thread, there are wagons and actions and whatnot, in he pops, badmouths a player, and then 'lol self-vote' Which is a pretty dramatic attempt to sideline and distract from viable conversation.

He's since corrected his self-vote...though why he would be "mistakenly" thinking of his own name when voting I don't know.
That said - he has contributed next to nothing, and continues to contribute next to nothing. If he was vigged I would be happy because anyone who can accidentally self vote should *never* make it to lylo if they're on your team, plus considering his spread of contribution thus far I'm willing to bet he stays in the suspect pool the entire game until he's lynched or damned/cleared by role actions or something. He's never going to be someone other players are like 'oh, look, townplay' to. Consequently, regardless of alignment - he should die.

[Thor665]

The chances are way better than 10% unless you know something I don't. Why are the chances less than 33%?
What would you rather we do - sit around and mumble about how serious this decision is while not actually doing anything to clarify our choices?

[Thor665]

I'm terrified of a billion votes, that could lynch me.

@krypt - as an amazing exercise how about you vote whoever you think is most scummy. it will amuse me.

@JDGA - I'm here to win the game, not hug newbies and tell them their playstyle that isn't scumhunting at all is still a special and unique snowflake. I do that in newbie games. Out here I want them to be scumhunting or I want them dead.
Also, everyone is talking like there is a Vig because;
a) in a game this size usually there is.
b) if there isn't one so what?
c) If there's an SK who wants to set up a Vig claim for later he needs to know who to kill to look pro-town, so we're cluing him in.

[Thor665]

Thor is as hard to read as ever.

Everyone's started to say this lately. I'm still not sure if it's a good or a bad thing.
Really you should just sheep me more - if I'm wrong 2-3 times in a row then you should know I'm town

[Thor665]

@Tomie - who should I be voting and why?
Also - your thoughts on Swag.

[Thor665]

Meh, I am not use to playing slow games.

Do you have a solution?
Do you have a player we should look into?
I may be willing to agree with you that everything is totally gakked up...but I don't see how you're helping the situation. Why is that?

Glowball~ She choose to leave Swag alone, while he was the one who came closest to her profile of scum misusing policy lynches.

If Glowball is scummy for avoiding Swag like that, but trying to get credit for his lynch...shouldn't you be helping us lynch Swag since the only way your case on Glwball is worth anything is if Swag is scum?

[Thor665]

Everything you said makes sense except why scum Glowball would react like that to town Swag lynch - what am I missing?

[Thor665]

Thor is as hard to read as ever.

Everyone's started to say this lately. I'm still not sure if it's a good or a bad thing.
Really you should just sheep me more - if I'm wrong 2-3 times in a row then you should know I'm town

THOR WHEN YOU SAY SMURF LIKE THIS I WANT TO LYNCH YOU SO HARD BABY

RECK WHEN YOU SCREAM SMURF LIKE THIS I WONDER WHEN YOU'LL EVER GROK JOKES AND META.
Also, I prefer not to be called 'baby' till the second date.
Also, if you love Swag lynch so much there are so many more things you could be doing to advance it than you're currently doing.

[Thor665]

Meh, I am not use to playing slow games.

Do you have a solution?
Do you have a player we should look into?
I may be willing to agree with you that everything is totally gakked up...but I don't see how you're helping the situation. Why is that?

[Thor665]

Not Voting

(5)

:

Mist7676, Zihark, glowball, Parabollocks

I think this is a list of not good players.
I'm not certain, and I might just be drawing this conclusion for no reason. But for some reason - some similar action - I get a strong feeling that these players all suxx0rs.

[Thor665]

I'm now totally endorsing a DK vig as well.

[Thor665]

NO PROBLEM, RECKIAGRA

[Thor665]

Bvoight can be town now.
Zihark can be scum.
I'd like to either see some people add to the current Swag/DK wagons or give me a juicy explanation of why anyone should care one whit about whatever little dingle wagon you're currently on.

[Thor665]

As she claims, she made the start to the accusations against Swag. But the only thing she did, was ask him a question about his vote, without any following up with an attack. So at this point, she comes across as a player who's scumhunting (which is seen as a town-action), but if Swag flips town (which he does in this situation), she won't be looked at as she didn't join the wagon (hiding).
At the same time, she mentions Reck will get some heat on him if Swag flips town. In other words, she'll be 'save' if Swag flips town, while those who did join the bandwagon will get the attention.

Okay.

Unvote: Swag
Vote: glowball

Choo-choo!

[Thor665]

@Reck - I don't see the difference there.
Also, yes, I really did just do that hop...what makes me wonder is why you're yelling at me as opposed to noticing the potential awesomeness that is '6652861982-gawds what a terrible name' if Swag flips scum. Besides, Swag isn't around, we can pressure him up later if we're wrong, and the wagon could be doing more interesting and fruitful things. Now why don't you sheep me, because my derriere is pretty awesome so you might as well be behind it.

[Thor665]

Ah, okay on the DK thing - I thought you were trying to show some discrepancy in his Swag views. He still needs to die, as does Swag - if he's useless I'll owe you a sheep back when he does show.

[Thor665]

Ah, yes, 'interesting' the word that should be a scumtell.

[Thor665]

my kingdom for a multishot dayvig

That's the role everyone wants in every game.

Eh, if we're not going to get a DK lynch today, I'll deal with him tonight.

unvote

Well, that's fine. Who are you going to get today? Because I'm looking at your vote and I don't see it doing anything valuable.

@JDGA - you seemed to be angling towards the DK lynch and now are leaping at glowball. Do you consider glowball more or less scummy than DK?

[Thor665]

This game needs more content. In my next post I'll be doing reads on people who need attention.

So...was that it?
I'd like to think with 12 pages you ought to have found at least one player worthy of a vote. Whassup?

[Thor665]

In your opinion, do you think you're being useless right now, if yes, how so? If no, why not?

I am so useful it actually causes eyebleeds in people that look at me.
I am heling by giving my reads on multiple players, and working to arrange a lynch on players that I find to be scum.
I debated the idea of voting Sancho and then sitting there not asking for anyone else to vote while sort of just vaguely commenting on things - but then I realized that would get me killed for being a anti-town player so I changed my tactics.
Why do you ask?

[Thor665]

Man, we're almost at page 15, people should probably just speed lynch glowball already.

[Thor665]

Speed lynch chkballin' already.

[Thor665]

@Thor...how is it that you would suddenly like to quick lynch me just because you won't get an answer out of swag/replacement. Considering that logic, you'd lynch any player over an inactive player just to get a quick lynch.

Ask chk this question, if he says his mind is totally blown by my actions then I'll answer this.
Alternate answer - I'm a daycop, obviously.

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

I actually think asking a Hydra to talk to its other head is a perfectly reasonable answer to a question, you coming back with a "never shall this hydra be a hydra" answer just seems silly.
I was actually aiming for charming, not sarcastic, but could go the sarcasm way if you wish.

Here's an actual answer to your question - I think you're showing a lot of newb tells and don't seem to have a firm grasp about how the game is played and are taking lots of things strangely literally instead of looking for the actual meanings behind them. People are actually giving you short shrift probably because most of your questions are of negligibly valuable. If you really think I am scum just standing around in the middle of the thread screaming for speed lynches because I think I'm being "super subtle" about it, then I suggest you need a few more games under your belt. If you think my claim of Day Cop is so bad as to damage the town and require a vote on me, then I think you need to be speed lynched

[Thor665]

WOW!
Yo, Reck, do you see how awesome this wagon is now? I'm about to step out and do some business things, so I don't have time for everything I'd like to do, but this wagon is awesome analysis in a sack now!
Here are just a few jabs as I leap out the door.

Thor, why are you campaigning for a quick lynch? What good would one do to us? I did not see the case against ballin until that vote on Thor. It was just... what. I have never seen this blatant attempt to get pressure out of themselves. VOTE: Ballin

Thor - why do you want a quick lynch, why is it good?...::helps quicklynch::.

It seems as if you're playing things too safe.

Getting yourself lynched so you can say "see, IDIOTS! I was TOWN! Graaaaah!!!!" isn't pro-town.
Though I guess I'll presume you'll agree I'm being awesome and helpful since your only issue is that I'm "safe", yeah?
Is this conversation going somewhere?

[Thor665]

Thor, why are you campaigning for a quick lynch? What good would one do to us? I did not see the case against ballin until that vote on Thor. It was just... what. I have never seen this blatant attempt to get pressure out of themselves. VOTE: Ballin

Thor - why do you want a quick lynch, why is it good?...::helps quicklynch::.

This is not an answer.

Neither is yours though, is it.
Here's my answer, I am a fisherman and am fishing like mad.
Also - I'm a truthteller. Once a day I get to ask mod a question and have it answered truthfully - I asked if starting a quicklynch on glowball would get awesome results and he said - you are so awesome for thinking that, it has to be awesome +1. Therefore, I did it, and it was indeed awesome.

Now, how about you answer my question - "whooooah, what's up with this CrAzY speed wagon of craaaaaaaaaaaziness!!!1! ....Vote: Speedwagon"

I mean, seriously?

Glowball wagon is quite obviously scumdriven.
Too many bandwagon dissolution on day 1 for it to not be excessively suspect.
Swag is scum, Glowball is def town.

Dear Taro; Shhhhhhhhhh, aw crud, now they all noticed. You can weigh in on my question to Reck about why I still find glowball/chkball/ballsout/whatevs scummy though - it's down a paragraph or so.

@Thor: If glowball is town there are about three people I want to powerlynch for hops on that wagon. But all of this relies on glowball actually being town.

Absolutely. The real question now is how likely is it that you think he's town? His peeved at the world posts look pretty townish in reaction to me, and with the newbcity we're playing in I really do feel a reaction wagon like this is more likely to be effective than not. The big question mark for me is his retalivote at me for the Daycop call. It's leaving my squeamish - if he was town and actually silly enough to fall for it he should have voted me for being scum, not being a liar, but just being flat out scum. Instead he works up this town/scum reasoning and resorts to a liar vote while apparently fully understanding I wasn't serious.

Do you think I'm over analyzing that?

DK remains a good Vig, because though I have some town vibes off him, they aren't storng and he has pretty much admitted to being useless which means scum will never touch him and he's choosing to dance the lynch line way too close for appropriate play of any pro-town role.
Taro has decided to move out of Vigville, USA - he is still aware of the address and has just moved to the Suspect as Sin Suberbs next door, but I don't think he needs a bullet tonight.

[Thor665]

I wanted to know your reasoning, or if you had any.

I think it's the best place for my vote to hang out until Swag's replacement says something else but "lol swag was so scummy".

Hey, Thor. Reck. You down for a Krypt lynch?

How about Celebloki?

No and no. We've got enough brutality already in this thread in my opinion. What I'd like is discussion of whether it's better to flip Swag or glow/chk/ball/in.
What are your thoughts on each of those? While you're at it, this question I'm asking Reck above about glowball's response to me - I'd love to hear your thoughts.

@RECK - I asked you an awesome question in my previous post. I wouldn't mind getting your feedback. There is like a sea of newbness and I'm not wanting to play my bully IC persona to get through it alone, I wants halp!

[Thor665]

I actually shifted the wagon just for reactions since we weren't getting jack all out of a non-present Swag and had already exploited the info of who would vote to lynch him and who would oppose.
Which wagon jumper do you think looks most suspect?

[Thor665]

How's the 'scummiest wagon hop' coming along? You don't even need to post much to communicate that.

[Thor665]

We just need to lynch PBuG already. Swag made the mistake and what I read from PBuGs entrance was essentially, "Wow, I'm caught, might as well pick on the easiest target to see if it gets me anywhere."

So DK is obv. town?

[Thor665]

I strongly agree with your Sleepy read - I'm not sure about the rest. I was actually going to suggest just ending Swag/PB by wagon till lynch, but I owe you a sheep anyway and am not fond of krypt's play either;

Unvote: chk/glow/ball/in/flip
Vote: kryptinen

[Thor665]

Does glowball being a newb make him more likely to be scum?

[Thor665]

What makes you so sure his LaL post is scum motivated as opposed to newb motivated?

[Thor665]

I want to put a couple of things next to each other to see if they make sense to me;

199;Thor655 - I hate when someone indicates that someone should die regardless of alignment, and Taro is certainly not the biggest offender. DK, sure. Taro, not really...

INTERMISSION: TARO
116 - Bandwagons DK
163,175 - Bandwagons Swag
179,188 - pointless

Vote: Taro

@PBug - am I missing something?

[Thor665]

Considering the mod specifically forbade it - I would say I feel you both need to read the thread better.
Of course I'm a negative sort of personality.

[Thor665]

Aren't you supposed to kill bad town and any scum?

No - you're supposed to kill scum.

Okay, as pathetic as it is, I actually have a town read on DK. I'd much rather lynch Krypt or PBug.
I think this town needs a lynch to move forward and have a night to collect it's heads together.

And because it's what we're doing now; SMURFITY SMURF-SMURF ALL YOU SMURFING SMURF PLAYERS WHO SMURF YOUR SMURFERS!
Yay, insulty!
DK wagon to become Krypt/PBug wagon now pl0x.

[Thor665]

@Taro - DK's Vig hint, link please? I just want to see if either I'm dense or you're talking out of your bum.
Thanks.

[Thor665]

Personal interpretation of arbitrary placed smiley.

@Reck - yar, I know, what about me saying he's a town read though? Dude is a gak player, sure, but there can be better lynches Day 1.

[Thor665]

Stop softclaiming vig, DK.

Stop active lurking, KoC.

[Thor665]

I'll just be lazy and go +1 to Tomie's post.
Especially as relates to KoC.

[Thor665]

I am town. It's already been decided.

If you are town you are anti-town because I am pretty much willing to bet that over half of the people expressing issues with you are town, and you're gaking up their scumhunting as well as clogging the thread with meaningless drivel that is not advancing the game state.

Regardless of your alignment, the only way you are playing well is if you are a Jester.
That is not a good sign.

[Thor665]

Great, so you fail to notice I've called you town and don't even want you lynched.
But I'm also able to spot what you're doing to the thread as a whole, and that's grinding it to a stop.
Feel free to crawl off your cross anytime - you're not helping things. feel free to prove me wrong via pro-town actions, I would love to see that happen.

[Thor665]

@DK - actually, vote krypt. That would be pro-town, just be quiet and sheep someone with a head on their shoulders.

[Thor665]

Stop making me question my town read on you and I'll consider all accounts paid.

[Thor665]

Reck, if we have no Vigs I'll help you policy lynch him tomorrow.
If we have Vigs there are better uses of a lynch.

[Thor665]

No - you are never allowed to claim.

[Thor665]

Yar. Looking back I think I'm going to;

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

Also, protip - when you're miller you claim miller Day 1. There is so much gak we wouldn't have even had to do if DK had been sitting behind a miller claim like he should have.

[Thor665]

THOR, YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS. ;P (Eighteen)

I'm not counting the ones people use as jokes - I'm only counting them when used as part of an actual case against me.

What's your reason to voting [KoC]?

Beard - what of it?

Also, what if the person isn't informed that he's the miller? Or is that not possible?

Does this matter in any meaningful way? We'll wait to endgame for the answer, I suppose, but short reply is - uf they don't know they're a miller they can't claim it, now can they?

I don't want any more power roles to die because of me though.

Why are you claiming krypt's death?

[Thor665]

Could you please describe for me the type of player you feel you are? Specifically - do you think scum or town are more likely to target you Night 1-2 on average?

[Thor665]

You're active lurking - what of it?

[Thor665]

There can't be more valid lines of questioning, otherwise a paragon of towniness like yourself would be doing them.
I also don't have a 'what of it' I'm happy with my vote.

[Thor665]

@Reck - I agree with your PBug breakdown, though I'm not feeling as certain who the scum are. I need to go dig up the krypt wagon from yesterday and compare some names methinks.

Thoughts on KoC?

[Thor665]

I'd love to hear how KoC is a confirmed townie - because then I could stop voting him.
I got $5 that says I have a DRASTICALLY different definition of confirmed townie than jilynne though...

[Thor665]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=PGO

I'd still like some more KoC votes, quite frankly. C'mon people, what good is a wagon unless there's a counter wagon?

[Thor665]

KoC and Sleepy.

Jill - feel free to be more useful in the future.

[Thor665]

Yoda has opinions on trying.
I don't mind trying, but I'd love to see it culminate in doing - I don't really see what sitting around and asking everyone to post their top 2 without reasoning will really get you that looking at the current vote count wouldn't get you just as easily. Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

What did you learn from all the discussion yesterday?

[Thor665]

You're claiming you need info on people's reads today to get you conclusions for tomorrow.
Theoretically that should mean you have information from yesterday to use today - I was curious what that was.

[Thor665]

Noting Voting

(6)

:

Mist7676, JDGA, jilynne1991, Zihark, PeregrineV, BeaverWeasel

Hi - we're a list of at least 1-2 lurking scum as well as of town players who are allowing scum to get away with it.

[Thor665]

@Palisade - why'd you shoot krypt and not KoC?

[Thor665]

Because we're lynching KoC.

[Thor665]

Still waiting on BW to tell us why Celebloki is town, though I think I caught it and I wish I hadn't been so pushy.

Soooo, you actually don't need him to expand on it then, right?

[Thor665]

Because you're going to be in a whole pile of Smurf when people realise you pushed a lynch on an innocent player because I softclaimed to draw scum's attention and pushed a policy lynch on DK.

Also, Palisade claims both heads picked up on my softclaim - a soft claim that directly contradicted their role - and yet they just happened to go for Krypt instead of that?

I actually rather agree with the 2nd quote comment - but let's analyze that.
You did a soft claim of Vig to mess with scum - check.
Yet you understand that appropriate Vig play is to immediately shoot the person softclaiming Vig...wait...whut?

I certainly agree one of you should die.
I don't see krypt as a pro-scum shot choice, so if Palisade is SK or something he's planning to work that Vig claim, and I'm okay with a pet SK in this game for another night or so.
That leaves you - the guy trying to mess with scum by getting a Vig to shoot him in the face.

[Thor665]

You seem to be missing the "hoping for scum to shoot me" part of the equation here.
But thanks for basically admitting you'd rather lynch me than the person who could well be an SK. Oh, and you're also accepting the fact I softclaimed vig, which I had LITERALLY ZERO REASON TO DO AS SCUM.

Could you just explain to me where my understanding of your thought process is wrong;

You're hinting at being a Vig so scum will kill you - best gain for town; you're dead.
You admit that the BEST play for a Vig would be to kill someone who softclaimed Vig - worst situation for town; you're dead.

So...what where you gaining for us by your softclaim lie?

[Thor665]

I'll also support a jilynne wagon at this stage.

[Thor665]

Anyways, Thor, why are you wanting me to be lynched again?

Hatred and fishing - plus you're obv. scum, so there is that.

[Thor665]

I... you... what?

You probably meant to answer my question to you about what pro-town advantage you expected from your Vig softclaim in a large game that almost certainly has a Vig but were distracted by jillynne trying to look more scummy than you.
That's fine - just answer it in your next post.

[Thor665]

I support it but desire your call on KoC as well.

[Thor665]

bvoight can be town again. Strong read.

[Thor665]

I'd like to ask a question, and it isn't meant to offend. This question is to everyone.
Jily is useless? Y/N

Define useless.
Useless in scumhunting skill? Eh...yeah, I wish she was better. Though I'd note you might want to be really careful of how hard you throw rocks in that glass house of yours.
Useless in helping other people scumhunt? Nah, she's pretty awesome for it.

[Thor665]

Nah - jilly is town, I'd rather utility lynch you for lulz than her - I'd rather lynch DGB too, but I always say that.
I could get behind a Celeb lynch, but what would really excite me is a KoC lynch. Are you voting KoC? It's a pro town vote and will sell me that you're not scum.

[Thor665]

Good, you suddenly look more town to me.
If you're down with this awesome KoC lynch why are you trying to shop around a jilly lynch for utility purposes? This wagon is so win it's made of gold and has spinners on the wheels - why would you want off for that Yugo of a jilly wagon?

[Thor665]

You don't have an opinion?
I consider this town so ripe with Vig targets it's sad. How about 65536 or that Zebronic slot that we can't seem to get filled? I'd be happy with both of them dead, quite frankly.

[Thor665]

Thor giving him a free pass just because he's voting me? Uh... huh. Noted. Do what you want, as long as you're on the wagon I want you to be, regardless of how scummy you are. Uh-huh. Noted that he also did the same with DK D1 when he was Smurfing up the thread and acting scummy as all hell.

I was also right about DK, so...are you accusing Sleepy of being scum or me of being scum happy to get sheepy town? ...wait, you're doing both, right?

Oh, and Thor - yeah, it was a dumb move in retrospect. If only we all had your

glorious powers of hindsight.

You're voting me for active lurking... except you're voting me for tunnelling DK... except I'm not active lurking... and DK was the best choice of lynch D1 because otherwise we'd still all be dealing with his Smurf...

1. I didn't ask you a question based on hindsight. In a Large game it's *immensely common* to have a Vig. All I did was ask you what you expected the pro-town gain to be with you softclaiming Vig? Your answer appears to be "It was stupid in hindsight, but I wanted scum to kill me and it never occured to me there was a Vig" Is that what you're saying?

2. I haven't called you scummy for tunneling DK, and don't even think I said you were tunneling DK - it doesn't sound like something I'd say since I actually consider tunneling null. So...whut?

[Thor665]

You were right about DK

in hindsight

. Are you really going to tell me he wasn't scummy as fuck D1? And if it hadn't been for the modkill, as a miller, he'd have flipped scum anyway.

No, I was right about DK then - I was calling him town prior to his lynch which is what you were calling me out about and...what point are you making here? How does this tie into your accusation at me and/or SleepyKrew?

Pretty much, yeah. Like I said, dumb move in hindsight.

a) You're right, I'm confusing you with someone else on the tunnelling - poor note organisation on my part, for which I apologise.

b) This does, however, raise the interesting question of just what you

are

voting me for, since so far, what I have you down on me for is active lurking (no longer a concern, I'm sure you can agree)

I can? I've had to drag this conversation out of you for a question I asked last week and have spent half of this conversation confused about what you believe in and what you're saying. I...still sorta am, actually.

and possibly the fact you think my Vig softclaim was dumb and/or scummy. In fact, let's be honest here, I haven't really seen a brilliant case on me at all, and yet the people voting me (and Celebloki, with his/her [I forget, apologies] "I'll jump on as soon as we've directed our SKVig for the night" thing) are acting as if my lynch is some kind of foregone conclusion.

Are you saying Celeb is scummy, or your whole wagon is scummy, or what?

My case on you is active lurk, gut, and beard. I'll admit that softclaim of Vig while scum doesn't make much sense, neither does it make much sense as town. It does make sense as a SK or a Vig, and you haven't counterclaimed our claimed Vig yet, though you have been trying to suggest he's the SK, so...

[Thor665]

PGO is like Miller - Day 1, Post 1 claim is pretty much the best, it's the way to be most pro-town towards the other players.

@DBG - your vote is good, here's the timeline.

Day 1
KoC - lol, Vig softclaim.
DK - Lawl, pants on head Vig softclaim.
DK dies - Miller who didn't claim, and earns hatred from Thor.
Night - Krypt, cop, dies.
Day 2
Jilly - Whoops! PGO here, did I fail at life?
Thor - Yes.
Palliside - Vig here, I killed cop. Whoops! Did I fail at life?
Thor - Yes. Why didn't you kill KoC?
Palliside - Saw claim, decided to kill krypt instead, will kill KoC tonight.
KoC - Lawl, fake Vig claim, really am town, did it for town plan of awesomeness!
Thor - Explain plan?
KoC - Uh...Whooops, there is no town awesomeness, did I fail at life?
Thor. Yes.
DGB - Votes KoC and doesn't fail at life.

And that's the entire game thus far.

[Thor665]

@Thor665- What made KoC more scummy than chkballin, or how did chkballin redeem itself?

I'm actually pretty sure I was voting chkballin' just because I opposed the DK wagon and he was the next most viable.
Who are you voting and why?

[Thor665]

@Para - we're not lynching Jilly today, adjust your vote accordingly.

[Thor665]

Scum pairings prior to flips are worth as much as sand in the Sahara.

[Thor665]

You are buying NS's load of Smurf.

Why shouldn't I?

This.

@Palliside - I'm fine with you shooting who you want to shoot - but you're not shooting NS, that is a very dumb idea. I'm fine with your other listed thoughts, but will hate you forever if you shoot NS tonight.

Let's see, who has there vote somewhere useless;

NobodySpecial (2): Palisade, xRECKONERx
PBuG (2): Knight of Cydonia
jilynne1991 (1): Parabollocks
Palisade (1): Taro

Noting Voting (4): Zebronic, PeregrineV, NobodySpecial, sanchocolates

These players are all terrible and should either be screaming a lot more or actually using their votes in a way that is useful.

[Thor665]

But we

do not trust

ANY

of you.

Also, seriously - get some town reads.

[Thor665]

Really like the KoC lynch - just saying.

[Thor665]

I'm drowning in wifom on the Reck question - he was thought of as pretty town, why throw that away to get NS lynched?
I agree the NS push is bad, I don't think I agree that Reck is scum because of it.
I'd rather lynch KoC or Para, quite frankly.

[Thor665]

Yes, I grok that cop push is bad.
Are you submitting he's too dumb to know that? Because scum are usually careful around cop pushes.

[Thor665]

If you're town I could learn to hate you.

[Thor665]

Replace out? I don't like the idea of being town with someone who 'wants to be lynched because they want out of the game' because I don't see that helping my wincon.

We can discuss NS tomorrow after his results.

[Thor665]

If you're going to lynch me just do it. I haven't been able to get into this game due to the fact that I didn't really want to join in the first place.

This doesn't sound like helpful bro-town. I like helpful bro-town.

[Thor665]

That looks like Reck town and DK fail to me.
So how's that KoC wagon looking? No sparkles but I might shake some glitter onto the edges if you ask nice.

[Thor665]

Deadline is

July 13, 2011

FIVE DAYS FROM NOW

We need a lot more focus than we currently have, people are running off and starting new and unexplained wagons and it's setting my teeth on edge.
Focus, people, focus.

Everyone on a one vote wagon; your NEXT post needs to either be you succinctly explaining why your wagon is awesome and the other wagons suck OR you need to be getting off that wagon.

Everyone not voting (of which there is a depressing lot of you: DO SOMETHING REMOTELY PRO-TOWN AND VOTE!

@Vig/SK - I strongly encourage looking at the people not voting because I would be SUPER happy if all of them were dead tomorrow.

Really, unless there's actual and functional movement soon we're going to be lynching KoC as part of a last minute wtflolomg wagon, and if that's the case let's just speed lynch him now and spare me the few days inbetween.

[Thor665]

I'm debating what I think right now, an NS action claim will be aces.
I've gone from town to neutral on Pallisade.
That's all for now.

@Reck - you're frothing about Pallisade as regards Vig/SK interactions without thinking about scum interactions with his claim - whassup wit dat?

[Thor665]

Vote: SleepyKrew

We have a claimed Vig and a claimed cop guilty, so...scum is dying by tomorrow morning no matter what. I'm fine with that.

[Thor665]

@Palisade - please describe the worst case scenario you're seeing here? Y'know, the one where Sleepy is town, NS is scum who is NK immune from you and we have to then lynch him tomorrow. Really? Is that so disatrous you see us needing to take the gamble that NS is def not cop today in order to save the super pro-town force of Sleepy?

Really?

I'll agree I think one of you or NS is lying, so if NS is lying it clears you up nicely, but I'm not sure I see the advantage in not playing the safe game. What am I missing?

[Thor665]

He was lynched - what are your thoughts?

[Thor665]

I'd say NS played that well regardless of alignment, he deserves props either way.
Though he may get hatred too

[Thor665]

Claim: "SK" please stop wasting time on that one Reck, and I'd rather not hunt out a JK or RBer just yet if they exist - I'm who killed JDGA on Night 2.

I'll get into the rest of my claim, but I'd actually like to see what Nobody has to say first.

[Thor665]

Claim: "SK"

[Thor665]

@bvoigt - yes.

[Thor665]

I dunno - what do you think we ought to do? I'm really bad at this SK business.

[Thor665]

You guys are hilarious.

I'll still finish my full claim after NS says what happened to him last night.

@Para - so do you want to lynch the "claimed SK" or do you want a pet SK who will shoot people you want dead? I'm confused.

[Thor665]

@NS

I suspect I probably do have a finished SK game.

Why were you looking for "interactions" with someone who had to either be an SK or a Vig? Did you think he was scum with an additional kill power or something?

Full Claim

Single Shot Vig.

Night 1 - Jilly (roleblocked...whew!)
Night 2 - JDGA

Basically at this stage the "roleblocker" is a messed up mystery because they didn't touch either NS or Palisade on Night 2 - which suggests they're pro-town. However somebody gakked up Pally's kill last night, which suggests anti-town.
There should theoretically be a roleblocker who wasn't on me, Palisade, or chkballin' who ought to have a confirmed scum.

If what we have is a doctor...than the doc doesn't need to claim but...that means the roleblocker who was on me Night 1 (an anti-town block in my personal opinion...unless JKer?) decided not to touch a claimed cop or Vig but then later did block a 'confirmed' Vig.
I claimed "SK" in quotes just to make Reck stop sweating an SK hunt that wasn't viable, I didn't expect the SK blowup but decided to ride with it for fun to see who would freak out. I'm not sure what to make of the reactions (because I've never tried to openly claim SK before) but my vague gut says Para and Reck look worse for it, because most people seemed more confused by the claim (and why wouldn't they be) while the two of them decided lynching was in order and Para even then went into lynching plus a need to kill NS for some reason. Meh, I'd be happy to hear other thoughts on that reaction fish if anyone has them.

[Thor665]

I wanted to see NS's claim prior to me claiming a RBer existed and also my presebce as a 'safe' guilty claim. Him confirming the other Vig after that is a bit neutralish in my eyes but I'm still leaning town on him which makes Pally town too, which I can work with.

Is there a reason you shouldn't look bad?

[Thor665]

There isn't any chance of a Jester, is there???

So what are your reads? I'm not sensing a lot of value coming from this slot.

[Thor665]

@Pere - sigh what? I'm not being lynched, I provided interesting results for town to look at, I informed town of an existant RBer type role, and I've killed scum. Last I checked I was on cruise control for awesome.

@Reck - why is Pally not raising your ire while NS is? Pally's play seems at *least* as derptastic.

Now that Pally is admiting to lack of a kill attempt (fail!) it's looking more and more to me like a RBer ought to be pretty close to having pegged scum. Lack of RB claim increases chance of RB=scum which increases chance of NS=scum. Anyone?
My big issue with NS=scum however is his initial investigate list from day before last. He listed *both* flipped goons there. Now, yeah, if he was scum he'd want at least one goon on there for bus options, but both? Plus the one he investigated was the one who *didn't* end up dead? When he could have easily sold out the dead one? I dunno, I'm not feeling that right now. If he's scum he has to be WTFOMGLOL scum as far as bussing goes - and I'm an aggressive busser myself and even I'm squinting at this one. I don't think he's a smart lynch today.

Vote: Auckmid

I'll maybe unvote once he actually provides reads on...anything. Then again, I might not, I'm a mercurial fellow.

[Thor665]

@Pere - I chose JDGA off gut and wagon analysis of the DK wagon - he was the suspect vote on the late comers on and I thought he was also lurky enough to be suspect (this is probably the gut) and I also didn't think it'd be easy to lead a wagon on him the next day.

@Reck - I certainly agree that NS investigating Pally was weaksauce. What do you think of him listing two goons on his four man 'to be investigated' list? That seems...odd, if he's scum.

[Thor665]

Thor: Pally is confirmed town by way of nobody counterclaiming the vig shots. Of course, you have now claimed the other shot and NOT a Serial Killer, but you didn't do that until

today

, meaning Pally is still likely town.

How does the timing of my claim make Pally town though? You lost me here. I agree he's not mafia - but the only thing saying 'not scum' is NS. What am I missing?

[Thor665]

You're presupposing bad LYLO play...which maybe isn't a bad thing to presuppose, but c'mon.

[Thor665]

@Auckmid...can't tell if trolling.

Reads - on other players. You theoretically have some wherein you have decided certain players are more likely town/scum/incontinent - I wish you to "share" these reads, and by share (or "give") what I mean is I want you to type them up and then post them to this message thread of the mafiascum website, so that other players in this game can see what reads you (the player known as uckmid) think of other players in this game and what their possible alignment (town/scum/unicorn/whatever) is in your (Auckmid's) opinion.

Hope that helps.

Now please give some reads.

[Thor665]

I grunt in agreement to that.

*grunt*

[Thor665]

@Jilly - I claimed SK because I'm scum.

@Taro - if Celebloki is scum why isn't NS? Just trying to keep this fresh in my head.

[Thor665]

This game feels like it's starting to drag, is that just me? I actually don't even remember who I'm voting for, and that's kind of frelled up.

We need a wagon, preferably a speed one.

@DGB - who should we speed wagon? I want to give away my vote to someone and you just got elected.

[Thor665]

He's sorta scummy but not runaway scummy.

Vote Auckmid unless you have a case for why that slot is town.

[Thor665]

@Celeb - that doesn't actually weaken NS's thoughts on Taro unless you think they're buddies though.

[Thor665]

@Taro - your read on chkballin'?

[Thor665]

How do I come off as a VI? I may be lazy, but I'm only made one major mistake this whole game. (Which is pretty good for me.)

I don't care if you're VI, I find that to be a misused term most of the time anyway, and hadly a bad term. I do care that you don't appear to be scumhunting AT ALL.
Please quote the last post you made in this game that you believe contained viable scumhunting effort.
Also, who are you voting for? Because I'm pretty sure you're not helping us lynch scum that way either.
Feel free to prove me wrong, you will earn many happy smilies from me if you do.

[Thor665]

@DGB - is Taro town?

[Thor665]

I'm (sadly) coming to the conclusion that Taro is town. It does not please me and his avoidance of questions because he's skimming and not helping scumhunt frustrates me, but that's where I'm at.

[Thor665]

Replace out?

[Thor665]

I'll second.

[Thor665]

@Thor- why is Taro(sadly) town?

Why? Do you want to lynch Taro?
If so you're doing something wrong.

[Thor665]

Hey.... I really would rather not read all 50 pages.... so here is what I am looking for I I will read the actions that led up to the vote count for the current day.. but i need someone to give me a quick post of where they feel each alive player stands scum/town

4. FourseenCircumstance - lurker, if you sheep me you can be town
5. DrippingGoofball - pretty weaksauce for her usual play and is lurking for DGB standards, but leaning town
6. VinegarEater - lurker and weak contribs, but pretty confirmed town via PGO claim
7. bvoigt - likely town
8. Palisade - claimed Vig, not scum, maybe SK, leaning town
9. Auckmid - total lurk out slot of nothingness, scum.
12. PeregrineV - another lurker, leaning meh and hatred
13. Taro - another lurker, leaning town
15. NobodySpecial - claimed cop, town for sanity's sake, has provided scum lynch of goon
16. Thor665 - only non lurker, manly beard, claimed 1 Shot Vig, claimed scum kill so verifiable not scum unless bulletproof and not SK unless bulletproof. Some lurker/twits still listing me as slightly suspect for reasons unknown - blame lurking.
17. xRECKONERx 0 lurking for Reck, is called town for sanity's sake. At least appears to occasionally scumhunt.
18. Parabollocks - bleh slot of meh reads, a fair bit lurky too, scum
19. chkballin - lurking/meh slot, am contemplating help to lynch it via ennui, but suspect it might just be town who is failing at life.
20. Celebloki - cop confirmed town via NS, leaning town.

I believe that sums it up.

[Thor665]

Sanity's sake is very important. All the town can't be the terribad lurk swarm.
I wouldn't help lynch DGB today though, which puts me in line with your read - I just don't feel uber confident because she's being a lurking sack and I've had that work as a DGB scum tell before.

[Thor665]

I only listed one cop claim.
What are you reading up on- the scum QT?

[Thor665]

20. Celebloki - cop confirmed town via NS, leaning town.

Could you just walk me through the mental mistake of how you thought I called him a cop?

[Thor665]

@Reck - maybe, his answers are dicey though and I want them on record. Later on this might help...it might not, but, hey, that's the adventure. When I get a better read on what type of player he is I'll probably be able to get a town/scum read off of this.

[Thor665]

Does anyone know that Vinegar Eater fellow? Solid player?

Right at the moment if Reck and NS openly claimed scum I'd help them win.

@Fourseen - I don't read brittle players well, and I do have a pet peeve about players who don't read posts. If you read my last post you'll note I'm saying that I will be able to get a town/scum read off of you. What makes you think that means I'm going 'lawl, obv. scum' and want to lynch you right now?

You should vote for Auckmid - we're lynching Auckmid.

[Thor665]

You read everything and that's your entrance post?

Underwhelmed.

[Thor665]

Thor - Why do you want Auckmid dead, anyway?
(My vote was only on Auckmid for various purposes involving forgetting Chkballin and getting a rise out of Peregrine)

I could see Chkballin as town.
Even if Auckmid is town he should be dead. That about covers it.

[Thor665]

I was on a lot of wagons yesterday. Swag was the first serious vote I cast, I got off Dk to move to him and off him to move to chkball's slot (then glowball).

[Thor665]

Right now he looks like another Swag, but this time, with a history of scummy behavior. What reason do you have not to vote him?

1. Day 1 case vs, Day 4 case.
2. Gut.

@Celeb - Why is DGB on your list? Why isn't Pere or Fourseen?

[Thor665]

Thor -
Gut makes VinegarEater sad. =(

50-100% of every case I make will make you sad this game.
Were you going anywhere with this, or was it just a 'c'mon, hammer!' conversation?

[Thor665]

Eh, let's get a clear and single directive post for our Vig who fails to submit kills and maybe I'll do it out of boredom. Prior to that - not happening.

[Thor665]

That's an unusual claim. Doesn't it imply the existence of an actual roleblocker?

I already claimed there was a roleblocker in my claim - as the roleblocker hasn't touched the "vig" or the "cop" the roleblocker is probably town.

[Thor665]

Yes. If palisade is scum, NS is too. This possibility is very tempting. Enough that I'll VOTE: Palisade.

NS did some standard "...unless I'm insane" speculation, (#1067) which fakeclaimer-cops usually do to get another chance when their guilty result comes up town. Traditional move. This speculation is bullSmurf

now

because SleepyKrew came up guilty after a convenient guilty investigation, and was bullshit

then

because the Normal Guidelines decree that all cops are sane.

So, NS claims cop.
NS investigates claimed Vig and calls it town.
Solution is to lynch claimed Vig to check veracity of cop claim...
After cop produced correct result on scum...
After cop produced a 'who I'll investigate list' containing two scum...
What?

If you're sold on NS being liar shouldn't we lynch NS?
If NS is scum he knows who town is unless SK.
I really don't follow this - we should only lynch Pally if you think he's SK - all the NS stuff is numb dumb case padding, yeah?

Bear in mind that NS also claimed an innocent investigation on you. If NS turns out scum, you'll be a possible scumbag as well.

I'd be down to lynch Palisade before Thor due to obvprotowniness from Thor, but a Palisade townflip or scumflip would make me question my read on Thor.

Beyond obv. pro townness my claim proves I'm not mafia scum unless I'm B Mafia scum, and the only other variety of scum I can be is a BP SK - keep that one in mind there as you accelerate your car down the road of awesome, buddy.
Also, town or scum flip from Pally makes you question a town read on me? How does that make sense?

This game needs to get increasingly more active. Anyone got a read on Parabollocks?

No more than I had before. I'm really WIFOM neutral on the whole Pally push because a full and limited shot role does not seem too out of sort to my mind, and 'theoryscum NS' is worth keeping around longer even if he is scum, and I'm leaning no on that one. I could do a Para lynch as much as most of the rest of the oatmeal that is our playerlist. I'd strongly like to lynch Pally prior to NS at this stage if that was the choice offered. I don't think I want that to be the choice offered.

@Thor: I just reread the post in which you claimed One Shot Vig. How did you know you were roleblocked Night 1?

Wait, yeah, how did Thor know he was roleblocked!?

It was either that or doc, no?

Seriously guys?

One shot.
I use that shot.
Mod is obligated to inform me if I still have the shot after a night I used it.
I was specifically told I was roleblocked.
A doc protect would use up my shot, derpy doo. I may have been "roleblocked" in some way that is not specifically a "roleblocker" but I was told I was roleblocked.

[Thor665]

Y'know, thinking about it - does anyone think I looked like a pro-town roleblock night 1?
Because if that doesn't look like a pro town roleblock I know a abackup I have some questions for - and I personally think coming out of Day 1 I looked like one of the strongest town players there.
If it was town, had to be a JK, yeah?

[Thor665]

Let's hear your backup about the roleblock.

You can take your complaints that I'm oversimplifying your case and match them with the complaint I'm returning that you should read entire posts I'd take 'oversimplify' any day over 'didn't read'

[Thor665]

You asked me for my backup on the roleblock - a question I had extensively answered.
What question where you asking me in what I quoted above?

[Thor665]

The backup I have questions for would be 'backup roleblocker' I have questions for, natch.

[Thor665]

@NS - My suggestion of how to pick who to investigate is to do it correctly.

Seriously, you had two scum on your to be investigated list - why do you think your reads are off that badly?

@Fourseen Pressure - I think you're doing it wrong.