New York 134: Planet of Hats (Scum Win!)

[bvoigt]

I will confer with my other head before placing a vote.

Why would you need to discuss making a random vote?

VOTE: Palisade

[bvoigt]

I will confer with my other head before placing a vote.

Why would you need to discuss making a random vote?

VOTE: Palisade

This was a random vote, right?

It was serious.

[bvoigt]

It is my belief that Swag is scum along with Parabullocks.

~Almond-Hair.

Is this serious?

[bvoigt]

I'll be honest, I've never played with DK, but people don't seem to like him too much. I jumped on a bandwagon. If it really bothers you I'll unvote.

What was your reason for jumping on a bandwagon?

[bvoigt]

I've been part of a secret hydra and have had to confer both as town and as scum - I consider that neutral and will be directing Vigs later.

Even for a random vote?

Unvote; Vote Glowball

Jilly is a close second.

Let the fun begin~

Why glowball?

[bvoigt]

I am not ignoring anyone- the fact that I have questioned certain players more than others, and some not at all mostly has to do with my game play. I don't really take a lot of weight in your vote as is, because I asked you a question and you returned with a vote.

I think Tomie has a point, though...since you were clearly against a policy lynch, what do you think of the fact that Swag jumped on the wagon even though he hasn't played with DK?

Also, I was wondering if Swag was just giving off newbie-tells, but since he has offsite experience:

UNVOTE: Palisade
VOTE: Swag136

[bvoigt]

I nominate taro for vigging over DK - that took some effort on his part.

Why? For the selfvote?

Also, @Taro: Was that just a typo, or what?

[bvoigt]

@bvoight - and the timing of the self-vote, yes.

So is this more of a policy vig, or do you consider him more likely to be scum because of it?

[bvoigt]

First the bolded and italicized.. That is my quote and it remains true- and there were several players who I think placed a vote on Deity without proper cause, however I've chosen to question a few to begin with that really caught my attention. Pressure isn't pressure if you do it to everyone- that's just regular scumhunting.

First of all, what's wrong with "regular scumhunting?" Wouldn't it be better to scumhunt by asking the same questions to everyone they apply to rather than "pressure" certain players? Like Tomie said, it's hypocritical, and I don't get it.

[bvoigt]

I understand your theory, here, but for the first one San started.

Like I said, it takes some time to contribute in slow moving games.

So why are you calling out sanchocolates and others for not contributing?

[bvoigt]

I understand your theory, here, but for the first one San started.

Like I said, it takes some time to contribute in slow moving games.

So why are you calling out sanchocolates and others for not contributing?

Because people like you keep questioning me leading me in the direction to point out stuff like that. :/

You mean because you're being questioned, you're forced to call out players who aren't contributing?

[bvoigt]

What do you mean, then?

[bvoigt]

@DK: Do you feel that you are contributing? Do you think you're scumhunting at all in any way? Why won't you side with a Swag lynch?

Does Kab have a scummier person we can focus on? I don't think so.

Unvote

Vote: Swag

I don't feel like I am contributing nor scumhunting, so?

But I am posting content.

Some people still have less than 5 posts so far, whereas I'm around 40.

Also, I am can say that Swag is not the best lynch for today, with that said, tell me why you've voted him, you didn't provide an explanation in that post?

Er...if you're not contributing or scumhunting, what kind of content are you adding? Post count =/= content.

What do you mean, then?

You guys are asking questions that make me speak my mind, and call me scummy for it. o.O

Speak your mind about sanchocolate's lack of content?

[bvoigt]

DK, would you please answer my questions?

[bvoigt]

DK, would you please answer my questions?

I don't understand why you are asking me. o.o

I'm trying to figure out your alignment, by figuring out why you attacked KoC and sanchocolates for "not contributing" when you admit yourself you aren't contributing or scumhunting. It looks like a contradiction to me.

[bvoigt]

as far as follow up questioning for Swag goes I play the way I see fit and I am not here to make you like me, I am here to win and you can choose to respect that or you can complain. I will say that anyone with a brain could go to the profile and see that Swag hasn't been on in days so why waste the energy?! If I saw Swag lurking- I choose to put more pressure on, but those questions weren't going to get anywhere.

But you were active on the same day Swag made the vote, and you couldn't know that he was going to flake.

oh btw, I don't like liars- jokingly so or not.

Vote: Thor665

This is a vote from a scum mindset...trying to appear town, not actually thinking like town. It's not real scumhunting; she's simply trying to make a policy vote (Lynch All Liars), without actually thinking Thor is more likely to be scum

UNVOTE: Swag
VOTE: glowball

[bvoigt]

Okay, I see the reasoning now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: whateveraccountballisusing

What reasoning specifically do you agree with?

[bvoigt]

Swag remains caught scum. It's probably why he flaked on us. Caught in the first couple of pages + newbie.

While I do think Swag is scum, I don't think he flaked because of it. He hasn't posted in his other game, either.

[bvoigt]

This is a vote from a scum mindset...trying to appear town, not actually thinking like town. It's not real scumhunting; she's simply trying to make a policy vote (Lynch All Liars), without actually thinking Thor is more likely to be scum

hooooooo boy. Lynch all liars is a perfectly valid argument/policy to follow, but bvoigt somehow shifts that into a scumtell. Me no likey.

It's not a valid policy to follow when something's obviously not intended to be true. Glowball's vote doesn't look sincere at all...does Thor claiming daycop really make him more likely to be scum?

[bvoigt]

No, obviously....

[bvoigt]

What makes you so sure his LaL post is scum motivated as opposed to newb motivated?

I dunno...a newb reason would be more like voting some for aggressiveness or something.

It's not a valid policy to follow when something's obviously not intended to be true. Glowball's vote doesn't look sincere at all...does Thor claiming daycop really make him more likely to be scum?

Does it NOT? How can you argue the opposite side of that case?
It's too swingy. When people are too lighthearted/jokey, it can be seen as a scumtell, which I've actually used in previous games. So no, glowball's vote isn't terrible..

It doesn't need to be a towntell. It's not a scumtell. And the lighthearted thing might be true, but glowball never mentioned that as a reason.

[bvoigt]

Usuallyin games like these the scum gets a bunch of safe claims, so only thing we could get out of this is either outing a bunch of power roles or making them lie.

Safe claims in a Large Normal?

Swag remains caught scum. It's probably why he flaked on us. Caught in the first couple of pages + newbie.

While I do think Swag is scum, I don't think he flaked because of it. He hasn't posted in his other game, either.

Why do you think he is scum?

Is it because of that 1 newbish thing he did? Well, that's not a strong scumtell.

Btw, I am not saying Swag is the worse lynch, but I'm pretty sure we could whip up a better lynch for the day, and if we fail than the chances of a mislynch with Swag are 30%-60%.

Yes, for that jump on your policy lynch wagon despite never playing with you.

Also, I could really see PBuG and DK as scumbuddies. DK said earlier, "I am leaning towards the people on my wagon," but he was oddly opposed to a Swag lynch. And he still seems to find Swag somewhat scummy, without wanting to vote him. DK, what do you think of PBuG's play so far?

@glowball: Do you have a response to my vote?

[bvoigt]

Oh god no.

[bvoigt]

DK, what do you think of PBuG's play so far?

[bvoigt]

Hey Bvoigt, why do you feel the need to get a response? Did she or I respond to any other votes and you're feeling left out of something?

If you're town, she should have no trouble explaining her reasoning.

Vote: BeaverWeasel

Gogo counterwagon!!

Plus lying and ignoring questions.

Lying? Where?

[bvoigt]

Ugh, loldrama is not actually lol for a change :/
I don't particularly want to lynch DK, because he does feel like town to me and I think it'd be much better if he were vigged instead. My vote stays on PBuG for now.

Why do you think DK is town?

[bvoigt]

Ok, but I'll take out a scum or sk while I'm at it.

I don't want any more power roles to die because of me though.

Anyone who visits me at night, dies. If they try to kill me, I will die, but so will they.

Why didn't you claim on Day 1? Also, I could be wrong on this, but I thought PGOs usually killed whoever targeted them, and did not die if they were targeted for a kill.

[bvoigt]

I thought PGOs usually killed whoever targeted them, and did not die if they were targeted for a kill.

@someone with more experience: Am I correct about this?

[bvoigt]

I thought PGOs usually killed whoever targeted them, and did not die if they were targeted for a kill.

@someone with more experience: Am I correct about this?

Free cookie to anyone who answers.

???
I thought I was a solid town-read?

I don't really like this reaction. Reads can change.

[bvoigt]

I thought PGOs usually killed whoever targeted them, and did not die if they were targeted for a kill.

@someone with more experience: Am I correct about this?

Free cookie to anyone who answers.

if they are targeted to die, they will shoot the person attempting to kill them.

Without being killed themself, usually?

[bvoigt]

Hmm, Taro and Parabollocks are saying two different things.

[bvoigt]

I checked Mini 973, where Hoopla (who's in charge of Normal Game review) fakeclaimed PGO. She said a scum or vig kill would still kill her. So jilynne's claim is more believable than I originally thought.

VOTE: chkballin

[bvoigt]

While Swag's vote for DK was pretty bad, I don't really buy any of the points regarding PBuG. I'd be willing to join a Palisade wagon, though...something about them seems insincere. I'll try to pinpoint the exact reason when I eventually do some reading in ISO.

[bvoigt]

BV, pay moar attention.

The PBuG wagon is yesterday's news. It's old stuff. It died a long time ago, and will never be starting up again.

Ever.

PBuG has proved himself to be town. He will NOT be wagoned this game, ever again.

The other wagon besides us isn't PBuG. It's KoC.

OK, why has he proven himself town?

[bvoigt]

Hmmm, it actually made quite alot of sense to me. If Palisade was scum, of course he's not trying to get killed, but it'll give town at least one wasted day, which is equivalent to 2 dead townies. It's not like Palisade is trying to kill himselof, it's more like an "If" thing.

This.

[bvoigt]

Or, I just have a strong town-read (reads change. Mine did on day two) and am frustrated (screaming at him--I know what I'm doing!) that my partner is holding onto a dead read. (That's

my

territory, Redhead! >.<) And am determined to make sure that lynch doesn't go through. That's just what I do.

And what gave you this strong town read?

I don't see it, and you aren't communicating in our QT. Stop posting reads without explaining them or at least discussing them with me, asshat.

Um, 3rd party?

Could you elaborate?

[bvoigt]

So right now, my count puts Palisade on L-3.
I'm sorta worried about a quicklynch, but Palisade just seems to be feeling more and more scummy with every post he makes, and it's frustrating me a lot.
Therefore, VOTE: Palisade for L-2.

I really don't like this vote, especially since we can assume now that Palisade is town. It's the first time JDGA has mentioned them outside of unofficial vote counts. So if he's truly afraid of a quicklynch, why would he hop the highest bandwagon of a player he hasn't suspected until now?

[bvoigt]

Zebronic, why do you think chkballin is town?

[bvoigt]

I'll be V/LA from the 2nd through the 4th.

[bvoigt]

KoC's reactions look town to me.

[bvoigt]

I fancy a jillynne lynch. Are you guys going to give me a hard time?

Yes, because she's a claimed PGO.

[bvoigt]

I fancy a jillynne lynch. Are you guys going to give me a hard time?

Yes, because she's a claimed PGO.

That's a scumvenient claim, but unlikely to come from a n0Ob.

She claimed on Day 2, though. What if a power role had targeted her Night 1, and was still alive?

[bvoigt]

Well bvoigt.
We'd need them to say that.
But no point outing PRs right now.
I'd like to ask a question, and it isn't meant to offend. This question is to everyone.
Jily is useless? Y/N

I'd say that it would be worth outing a PR to get scum lynched, but anyway, my point was that it's a very risky play for scum to claim PGO on Day 2. Yes, jilynne is somewhat useless, but she's likely town.

Celebloki's post above feels like a whole lot of nothing.

[bvoigt]

KoC is obvious town.

[bvoigt]

Active lurking, I guess. Tunneling, failgambiting, and claiming early are not scummy.

[bvoigt]

Well, at least

someone

gets the joke.
Yeah, I'm just a poor lil' old VT. Do try and remember exactly what this wagon has been pushed on, guys, because apart from the whole "active lurking D1" thing, and the (poor) gambit, you'll notice that quite a few people were on this wagon with very little reasoning at all...

Active lurking, tunneling, and fail gambiting aren't scummy? Claiming with FIVE WHOLE VOTES ON YOU isn't scummy?

Could you please explain, in depth, the scum motivation behind each of these four things?

@DGB: What makes Sleepy town?

[bvoigt]

KoC is obvious town.

Instead of telling us we're wrong, tell us why. I think that the tunneling was outstandingly scummy, especially done in lieu of any other reasonable content. I also don't see the town motivation (or motivation really at all aside from trying to out the vig) in softclaiming. Many of his points against me today are terrible misinterpretations and false conclusions; I suspect OMGUS accompanied by the knowledge that there would be potential support for a wagon on me.

I don't find the tunneling scummy because it would make more sense, if he was scum, to go after several players. It would make him appear more protown and increase mislynch options, since he'd be able to jump on a wagon without making it seem like he was blatantly wagoning.

The town reason for softclaiming, as KoC said, would be to draw a NK. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but there's even less motivation for scum to do it when they would probably get vigged.

Finally, this is mostly gut, but I just don't see this post or this post (in particular) coming from scum.

i read back, page 31 of jily is terrible.

VOTE: jily

if it wasn't already there.

But the PGO claim makes her town.

[bvoigt]

But the PGO claim makes her town.

i claim tracker, that must make me town because i claimed a town PR.

It would be much easier to disprove her claim.

[bvoigt]

Guys, Glowball/chkballin is ridiculously obviously 100% scum. Glowball and Tomie argued back and forth about several things. Tomie even had glowball voted until the end of D1 preaching her lynch. I've also decided that at this point PBuG is confirmed town and swag was just a moron. Tomie was pointing out how Glowball started the Swag wagon but never actually voted on it, then proceeded to try and de-rail it.

She did this in hopes of being seen as the one that started it if he flipped scum, but if he flipped town he never voted for it.

Tomie nailed her on several points.

The bolded doesn't make sense to me. If glowball's scum, wouldn't she know how Swag would flip?

However, I agree that chk's defense was pretty lousy. If anyone's strawmanning on that last point, it's chk.

[bvoigt]

Celebloki, can you explain the quote above?

[bvoigt]

I just didn't think that sentence out before I typed it. I had just finished reading through interactions between Tomie and Glowball as well as other players. I had a wall of quotes I was going to incorporate into it but I ended up deleting a bunch of them because I didn't want to make a massive wall post. I didn't really proof read what I had wrote, just kinda hammered the keys and hit submit. Obviously being scum Glowball would know what swag/PBuG is, I was probably typing from my perspective at the time where I am still not completely certain of what swag/PBuG is. I guess it's my interpretation of what Glowball's strategy is depending on what the alignment of PBuG is. If he's scum and Glowball is bussing(Understandable, at the time Swag was AWOL and not helping scum anyway, she could get brownie points), she can claim she started it so she helped but held a distance from actual bussing. But if Swag/PBuG is town her strategy would be to have started it and distanced herself so she didn't help mislynch a townie, I mean hell she even helped defend Swag! Two different strategies depending on what Swag/PBuG is. That bolded sentence is a product of me just not being clear, I apologize.

Fair enough. I'm going to keep my vote on chkballin.

[bvoigt]

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

So, by this volition, you believe that KoC's clamoring for DK's lynch was valuable imput? lolwut?

Do you consider this a scumtell? I think it's pretty clear what PBuG meant-- KoC didn't do much on Day 1. Or were you just asking a meaningless question?

...reasoning? I don't understand what DK's modkill has to do with me.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

a) deliberate misrep, stating "the fact DK was modkilled doesn't make PBuG less scummy" isn't an implication that DK's modkill has an effect on you, it's a clear statement of "okay, the fucktard is out of the way, continue as normal".

b) blatant hypocrisy, given that you yourself stated that after reading the thread twice (which you admitted to not actually doing), DK was your only scumread. You're voting me for pushing hard on your only scumread of your own. Yeah, I tunnelled yesterday, but 1) frankly, getting DK out of this game sooner rather than later was of paramount importance to making this game semi-playable. The fact that you're dragging DK back into this stinks of a desire to reobfuscate the scum hunting, just as he did yesterday.

Vote: PBuG

SEXY OMGUS VOTE, BRO.

You're using a buzzword here to attack his vote without actually explaining why it's scum-motivated. I think it was a reasonably well-thought out vote, not just scum trying to place suspicion on someone who was accusing him.

I'll bite, lets see where a palisade wagon gets us.

Unvote

Vote: Palisade

I love that you threw this vote out randomly (which I presumed was for "pressure" and

would you guess

what your

excuse

was?) so your vote on me seems less OMGUSy. Thumbs up for this terribly scummy play.

Again, you're calling out Celebloki for OMGUS and not actually explaining what makes it OMGUS, or what makes it scummy. His vote seemed also seemed legitimate.

@chkballin-Which post(s) of PBug's convinced you that he was town?

Nothing, I'm just not the type of player to openly go right back to my D1 scumread right off the bat. Especially not when someone was modkilled D1 instead of a proper lynch.

...I'm failing to see how a modkill changes things as opposed to a lynch. I'm also failing to see how "nothing" happening to change your read suddenly switched PBuG from scum to town.

Quote where I said I have a new town-read on PBuG and I'll

gladly

continue this discussion. Until then? You're not paying enough attention.

The difference between Wraith modkilling DK, however, and town (more than likely) lynching PBuG? Are you Smurfing serious? I think Pali-vig would've been more inclined to pop off DK instead of and we'd still have a cop, for one.

Knight of Scumdonia is leaning slightly > than Celescumi if only because he's (aside from quite recently) not at all scum-hunting and super-active lurking. Add the nonsensical claim? And that equals:

VOTE: Knight of Cydonia with a very active

IGMEOY

: Celebloki

The bolded is irrelevant. He was asking why the modkill made you less willing to vote PBuG right off the bat.

@Sleepy:

Active lurking, tunneling, and fail gambiting aren't scummy? Claiming with FIVE WHOLE VOTES ON YOU isn't scummy?

Could you please explain, in depth, the scum motivation behind each of these four things?

[bvoigt]

KoC -- I'm ....lost. Clarify, please? I was 1-shot BP there, this hardly affects my role here. Unless you're talking about something else? (Also, The Careful Reader will note what's odd about this replacement and .... well, I won't continue.)

Ooh, is it because you're one head of BeaverWeasel? (No wonder I'm so good at mafia.)

[bvoigt]

The bolded is irrelevant. He was asking why the modkill made you less willing to vote PBuG right off the bat.

Ah, I suppose I allowed that to shoot over my head. The point I'm

attempting

to make here is that the modkill in and of itself changed the direction of D1 -- that's all I was getting at with that particular paragraph; however, what I'm saying overall is that my read on PBuG hasn't changed, I just don't see the point in sheeping the other four that said "welp, lets try this again" and slap my vote on the same person. Instead, I've been spending D2 trying to find new leads, go through new avenues. Y'know... actually scum hunt instead of being secure and happily content with yesterDay's news.

I'd argue that you can place a vote on someone for added pressure, while still scumhunting and going for new information, but whatever. No need to nitpick, I guess.

As for the rest? It wasn't directed at you... sorry you don't like the way I play mafia? I dunno, it just seems silly to me that you're sticking your nose where it obviously has no place. You don't know what I'm going for, obviously, so you're trying your hardest to make it look like what I've done isn't productive. Cool story, bro, but it is. I'm creating reads; we obviously have different playstyles. You stick to being content with fluffing and generally not scum-hunting by way of sheeping one-liners with your vote happily parked on me. MEANWHILE, I'm going to actually try to further the game. Thanks for trying to tell me how to mafia, though. Great show of character.

(This is pointless, but it irritated me, so I'm going to respond. Everyone can skip this if they want.) OK, so first you snap at me for "sticking my nose where it obviously has no place," and then you say I'm just "content with fluffing" and "sheeping one-liners." Well, you see, if I don't ever respond to posts that don't directly concern me, all I'll ever do is post fluff and one-liners. Instead, I like to actually try to further the game by responding to my top scumread's post and explaining what makes him scum. Thanks for trying to tell me how to mafia, though.

Actually, maybe it isn't pointless after all. When I respond to a few of chk's points, he doesn't actually address them. Instead, he responds with Ad Hominem, and not even Ad Hom that makes sense. He first criticizes me for butting into several points of his, and then for sheeping and one liners. Apparently he isn't able to legitimately respond to the stuff I brought up.

As for NS's claim, two cops might be unlikely, but I don't really see the scum motivation for claiming cop after one had already flipped.

[bvoigt]

When I respond to a few of chk's points, he doesn't actually address them.

Sexy misrep, bro. Would you like to quote something I've not addressed?

Snap at you? You

really do

have an ego. I'm trying to explain to you in term you can understand that you and I play this game differently. We've done this song and dance the nice way before, bro. Or have you forgotton the game we were both town in where you did this and got me lynched? You don't get the point -- now I see that I've gotten under your skin, maybe now you'll open your eyes.

Then again, probably not.

~

CHK

I'm talking about the other 3 points here. (Also, are you referring to the game where you self-hammered, or that other game where you self-hammered?)

Just to expand on why scum wouldn't claim cop here-- where's the motivation? Well, maybe it's because he couldn't think of a good reason to explain why he called Celebloki "incredibly town," but then why did he say it the first place? Maybe he (still hypothetical NS-scum) wanted to protect his buddy, or just buddy up to him as town. But it still doesn't make sense to say something like that if you couldn't back it up. NS actually being the cop is a much more likely scenario here.

[bvoigt]

...reasoning? I don't understand what DK's modkill has to do with me.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

a) deliberate misrep, stating "the fact DK was modkilled doesn't make PBuG less scummy" isn't an implication that DK's modkill has an effect on you, it's a clear statement of "okay, the fucktard is out of the way, continue as normal".

b) blatant hypocrisy, given that you yourself stated that after reading the thread twice (which you admitted to not actually doing), DK was your only scumread. You're voting me for pushing hard on your only scumread of your own. Yeah, I tunnelled yesterday, but 1) frankly, getting DK out of this game sooner rather than later was of paramount importance to making this game semi-playable. The fact that you're dragging DK back into this stinks of a desire to reobfuscate the scum hunting, just as he did yesterday.

Vote: PBuG

SEXY OMGUS VOTE, BRO.

You're using a buzzword here to attack his vote without actually explaining why it's scum-motivated. I think it was a reasonably well-thought out vote, not just scum trying to place suspicion on someone who was accusing him.

I'm really growing a bit of a disdain for people who try to attack other people for using "buzzwords." Is that a scum-tell? Because, last I checked, the post you're pulling these from was a catch-up post where I was quoting posts I thought were worth talking about. Why

wouldn't

I say this "buzzword" here if I feel that's what it is? I digress, whether we agree to disagree or not, I feel like KoC voted PBuG as an attempt to deflect attention off himself (unsuccessfully); therefore, in my opinion, it's an OMGUS vote. Well thought out? I don't think so. Reads to me like he saw the vote, disliked it, and tried to spin it against PBuG.

Yeah, I think it is a scumtell, because when someone mentions OMGUS, it's rarely questioned, and doesn't need to be fully explained. You're saying KoC was trying to deflect attention off himself, but you're not saying why the points were insincere. Do you believe KoC, as town, wouldn't have questioned PBuG's vote as misrepping and hypocrisy?

I hate to admit it, but your responses to my other points are reasonable and fairly well-thought out. I could definitely see them coming from a townie.

UNVOTE: chballin
VOTE: JDGA

[bvoigt]

@Wraith:

Could we get a vote count, please?

[bvoigt]

Hey, I was probably going to vote him anyway.

VOTE: SleepyKrew

[bvoigt]

Is that a serious claim?

[bvoigt]

I believe the general play for a claimed SK is to direct their kills, and lynch them if they don't comply. Right?

[bvoigt]

(shrug)

[bvoigt]

Realistically I see no point in lynching Thor JUST because he's the Serial Killer, why not let scum deal with him? He's a threat to them too since he just wants to kill everyone. I mean I am all for him helping us and if something doesn't go exactly how it should we immediately lynch him. At least he's out in the open we can lynch him at any time.

~

BALLIN

Chkballin is now CONFIRMED TOWN.

Why?

@Auckmid: He claimed 1-shot vig now. And, as Thor asked, what are your reads?

[bvoigt]

That post came from town. Not up for discussion.

Well...could you at least try to explain it?

Oops, yeah, sorry. I just read him claiming SK, and got overexited, so forgot to read the rest of the thread before posting comments. My bad

Why did you ignore my other question?

[bvoigt]

@DGB: Why'd you claim that you were masons with SleepyKrew?

[bvoigt]

VOTE: PeregrineV

His play has been significantly more lurky here than in previous games. In Elite Scumhunting Unit, a Mini, he had 45 posts in 40 days. In Cold War Mafia, he had 121 in 2 months, so about 2 per day. Here, he's only made 13 posts in over a month-- a little over 1 every 3 days.

[bvoigt]

I'll be

V/LA

from Saturday the 23rd through Sunday the 31st, and might not have Internet access.

[bvoigt]

What do you guys think of my point about Peregrine's activity?

[bvoigt]

@Thor: I just reread the post in which you claimed One Shot Vig. How did you know you were roleblocked Night 1?

We'd have to debate the possibility of having an OSV and a Vig. I am more inclined to believe Thor's OSV claim. If we agree that having an OSV and a normal vig is overpowered then lynching Palisade may be best. On another note if we lynch Palisade and he flips SK, then we now that NS is BSing his cop claim.

A cop should get a guilty from an SK.

I think I could be behind lynching Palisade as well.

Not necessarily...I think investigation immunity is a pretty common addition for a SK. But, if the SK is investigation immune, I'm sure he'll flip as such. So I guess it's nothing to WIFOM about.

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

Not really sure who I'll investigate tonight. Yet.

Why do you think PBuG was scummy?

[bvoigt]

Also, hi VE! Haven't seen you around in a while.

This is the worst argument ever.

"SK's can't no kill!" Yes, they can, if they're not compulsive.

"But current mod meta BLAH BLAH BLAH" Don't waste my time.

QFT. Since when are Serial Killers compulsive?

[bvoigt]

Y'know, thinking about it - does anyone think I looked like a pro-town roleblock night 1?
Because if that doesn't look like a pro town roleblock I know a abackup I have some questions for - and I personally think coming out of Day 1 I looked like one of the strongest town players there.
If it was town, had to be a JK, yeah?

That's a good point. But since Pal and NS weren't roleblocked Night 2, I'd say our roleblocker is likely pro-town, so a Jailkeeper is the most likely option, I think. And if it's a JK, a Backup Roleblocker doesn't really make any sense.

VOTE: chkballin

Out of the PR claims, this one is the least believable.

[bvoigt]

Town

FourseenCircumstance- PBug was likely town to me. This post in particular contained some good scumhunting.
DrippingGoofball- I don't see Mist's replacing out in a fit, or DGB's mason fakeclaim with SleepyKrew, coming from scum.
VinegarEater- PGO claim.
bvoigt- Yep.
Palisade- Actually, I think they're likely an investigation-immune SK, but I'm content to leave them alive for now.
Nobody Special- I still don't see the scum motivation for claiming cop and a guilty report on a buddy.
xRECKONERx- Cop report.
chkballin- The reaction to Fourseen's "hammer" seemed genuine.
Celebloki- Cop report.

Who's Left

PeregrineV
Taro
Parabollocks

VOTE: PeregrineV

[bvoigt]

VingerEater seems like an acceptable lynch because a PGO claim is perfect for scum, it's almost as bad as fake claiming miller IMO. It keeps people too scared to use their night actions to determine your alignment. The only way to get around this is with a lynch- so I'd be for it.

Yeah, but jily didn't claim until Day 2. What if someone had targeted her overnight?

@bvoigt- If you think Palisade is a SK, why are you content with them being alive?

Well, he's either a vig or pretending to be one. Either way, I'd rather have that extra kill with a chance of hitting scum.

[bvoigt]

@VE: Why are you assuming four scum?

[bvoigt]

Because five scum and an investigation-immune SK seem like an awful lot for a 22player game, in my uninformed opinion.

Do you usually see more?

I dunno...four scum doesn't seem like quite enough with all the power role claims we've had so far. Either NS the claimed cop, or chkballin the claimed backup roleblocker, or both, must be town, right?

[bvoigt]

All right, my Peregrine vote isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: Fourseen

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Fourseen

I thought I'd done this already.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Fourseen

I thought I'd done this already.

You did, putting him at L-1. Care to throw a reason out there with it?

DGB made this good observation. Plus, I want a flip, and I really don't see anyone else getting lynched today.

[bvoigt]

That should be in past tense, but you get the idea. Also, Peregrine, you aren't too good at the whole gambit thing.

[bvoigt]

For what it's worth, I would suggest a Peregrine investigation.

[bvoigt]

Amrun looks town so far.

I think things would make a lot more sense if our mysterious jailkeeper/roleblocker claimed. What do you guys think?

[bvoigt]

Let's see. I really don't think we would have a 6-man mafia team, so I'm going to assume 5 scum. If we lynch Palisade today, and he does flip town, that leaves us at 2:6 with the scum NK. So we could still lynch NS tomorrow. Right?

[bvoigt]

Palisade was cleared by NS, who is the cop, unless we think Palisade is babyface SK.

Or Godfather.

Well, unless he's taking credit for someone else's kills, that part of his ability is confirmed. But I do think he's a SK, although I see no need to rush the day quite yet.

[bvoigt]

I'm convinced Peregine is scum. He talks about many things we should do before the deadline, but he doesn't do any of them, nor has he done much the entire game. These empty words seem like he's trying to appear town rather than truly trying to find scum.

[bvoigt]

Bvoigt -
I have a mildly scummy gut read on Peregrine. Can you make a list?

Of the things he's said without acting on them, you mean? I was mostly referring to his last two posts. He mentions vote count analysis, interactions with flipped scum, and claim analysis. But he doesn't actually do any analysis, which to me, says that he wants to appear town by making suggestions, but doesn't truly care about what they will say.

Every needs to unvote, and we need to figure this out.
My top suspects right now are Amrun (mostly becasue of Para, so this is the weakest of the three), chkballin (for the same reasons as before), and bvoigt (still no read on him after 6 days. Somethings up there).

So, much more discussion before lynching. Please everyone unvote and use the day wisely.

Specifically, I want to avoid another mislynch like yesterday. I can't remember the case, but it seems like we have enough information to analyze votes, review living players and dead player interactions, and actually lynch scum.

We have claims. We have claims of night actions. That should also provide us info.

How many scum are left? Do they have a GF? Do we have a SK? Do they show town when investigated? How close are we to lylo or town win?

I would like to discuss this before rapidly lynching..well, anyone.

Amrun -
I've never played with Peregrine before, but his play so far looks a lot like bvoigt's play as scum (based on a very old game, granted), so I'm looking forward to some insightful information from Bvoigt.

What similarities have you noticed?

[bvoigt]

Oh, I missed that last post. The other part of my case on Peregrine is that he lurked much more than in previous games.

[bvoigt]

^Second that weirdly confrontational metatell for scumbvoigt.

That's not even something I consciously do. Uh-oh.

I still don't think Palisade can be anything but a vig or SK. I want to lynch him, though.

[bvoigt]

What is the purpose of the massclaim? I would have been in favor of roleblocker/not roleblocker claiming, but....

[bvoigt]

I didn't say it was popular. It is not.

I wouldn't have gone out of my way to say it was possible if it were a usual occurence.

I am still having a very hard time buying Hoopla allowing a PGO making it into a normal, even as a variant role.

Does anyone know if it's been done before?

Hoopla did fakeclaim PGO in this Mini Normal last May. And for the record, I have a Large Normal in reviews right now, and up to 2 weird roles

are

allowed.

[bvoigt]

Fakeclaims hardly count. Yes, but they must be based on roles closeish to Normal.

Oh well. I'm sick of pondering it. I don't think Vinegar is groupscum. I'll reconsider him for sk if Palisade isn't.

Palisade, your supposed scumteam makes no sense at all.

Hoopla wouldn't claim a role that couldn't be used in a Normal game. And PGO is "based on the usual role mechanics" as it's basically a Passive Vig.

bvoigt, PeregrineV, Celebloki

These three, plus DGB (but I really can't tell whether or not she's still playing) are the only players who can hammer (not counting a Palisade self-hammer, which I don't see happening).

Can the three of you let us know why you aren't hammering, or alternately, what you'd like to do?

Honestly, this Day needs to be over.

I want to hear Reck and Peregrine explain why they wanted a massclaim.

[bvoigt]

That's stupid when we could have waited until Tomorrow and kept any remaining PRs hidden for an extra night. Scum would have been just as "accountable," and they would be more limited in claims because of the extra flips. But whatever. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

[bvoigt]

...

[bvoigt]

Sixth time's the charm.

VOTE: Palisade

[bvoigt]

VOTE: chkballin

[bvoigt]

Congrats guys- I am kind of hoping for a town win because...well, I just don't think you guys will see it.

What do you mean by this?

[bvoigt]

I feel like Reck is chkballin's partner.

[bvoigt]

DGB is basically confirmed town, since she hasn't been around to send in a NK.

I feel like Reck is chkballin's partner.

okay but now I'm curious, why did you say this?

Gut, mostly. Also, chkballin's reasoning for blacklisting you doesn't make much sense: "I'm blacklisting you after one game because you blacklisted me after one game."

[bvoigt]

I still think the PGO claim makes Vinegar town. That leaves Reck, Amrun, and Celebloki.

[bvoigt]

@Amrun: Just hit the "Load" button next to the "Save draft" button. I assume most of my questions will be answered in that post.

[bvoigt]

Good game, Reck and everyone. I can't believe they listened to you with the no-Godfather spiel.

My gut feeling about Reck/chkballin was right, but I didn't really have anything to back it up.

Shouldn't the day continue with a scum modkill?

[bvoigt]

Wait a second...you chose who got what roles?

I just remembered how chkflip was intentionally trying to make me angry. I wish I would have thought to bring that up before I got lynched.

[bvoigt]

Reck's cocky attitude, suggests he's never been afraid of investigation and that rubs me the wrong way

Reck's attitude has just been overly confident the whole game.

Reck is running the show anyway

I am tired, and I am sorry to my teammate- but at this point I don't like them very much anyway

Hindsight is 20/20.

[bvoigt]

And to be fair, the only time I really sheeped was with Fourseen. I was opposed to the lynch of both KoC and NS.