Mini 1190: Game over

[Thomith]

I leave for a day and already 2 pages and we are out of RVS, something tells me this is more different to newbies than i imagined.
Anyway.

1. What timezone are you in? GMT
2. Scum or Town, which is more fun? Town
3. RVS or RQS? RVS
4. Batman or Superman (hint: Batman)? this is relevant how?

no really i can understand how the first 3 could help us but what is the 4th question there for? also tell me if i am understanding right, millers claim early so they don't mess up cop reports later in the game/ to reveal sanity, that is how i think miller claims are used anyway.
and seeing as it seems we are out of RVS i will hold back my vote for now.

[Thomith]

Awful questions they may be, but I still want everyone to answer =p

If even you think they are aweful questions, why ask them? I don't care about answering questions but if they won't help in the long run i dont see the point.

Sleepy did you read the thread before saying CC voted for the miller claim or even acknowledge who he voted for?

The EK claim seems town, as if i am understanding right a miller claims Day 1 so the Cop isn't hindered in the long wrong.

[Thomith]

I did read the thread, and I misread CC.

hm... ok then, but still i find it weird but sure.

[Thomith]

@CC But the last question was out of place there, the first 3 could have been used/be used later to scumhunt but the last one seemed very out of place to the others.

@SK i just feel the mistakes you made aren't really town like imo, null tell not scum tell atm but i have my eye on you.

also of course mafia can claim miller but it should help town if miller claims early so cop isnt screwed over in lylo if they investigate them.

[Thomith]

nothing, i was posting opinions on you.

[Thomith]

So you would have prefered it if Toro didn't say anything about it?
also one vote wont start a BW unless there is a solid case on the person being voted.

[Thomith]

there is a possibility that EK is faking the miller claim however i doubt it, i just find it towny that EK claimed miller straight away as to not confuse town more than needed later in the game.

[Thomith]

i was talking to Toro...

[Thomith]

RVS ended ages ago Elfen...

[Thomith]

This is the thing i never understand, if you have a strong FOS why do you vote someone else other than your strong FOS?

[Thomith]

Ok, yes i have been echoing others ideas, but i have also tried my best to state my opinions as well, also what is your definiton of active lurking, because it seems that it is different from mine.

[Thomith]

and hasn't contributed,

i have contributed more than some and trying to post my thoughts on hapenings, i dont see where i have been

trying

to appear active.

[Thomith]

Wait. You feel that Sleepy's mistakes aren't town-like, but you don't say they aren't scum either?

what i meant by this is that they give me a null tell but are not scummy enough for a scumtell

I agree EK could have faked miller as mafia to get the cop off their back but it is usually towny to claim miller off the bat to help town later.

#69 was asking if you didn't say anything about the miller would they not suspect you, basically seeing if the case on you was based on facts other than you questioning the miller claim.

It should help town if miller claims early, but who knows if Emp is really the miller?

No one, but it doesn't make him a likely scum candidate because he claimed it.

[Thomith]

I may have less points on him but my gut's telling me scum atm.

gut feelings < Scumreads. ok you have more scumreads on other people but you vote for me, i agree with SOME of the logic you say you are voting me for but if you have more scum reads on other people but vote with your gut rather than your reads.

[Thomith]

We have no idea if he is telling the truth or not,

Well duh, of course we have no idea if he is telling the truth or not as we cannot confirm EK unless he dies, however i am willing to bet he is town as he claimed quickly where imo scum would have waited untill they were investigated before claiming to give them a cover story when the time comes but wouldn't want to have the spotlight on them early on in the game.

[Thomith]

But if they claim early they would get alot of attention which they probably would not want that much attention drawn to them early in the game where as if they claimed later then they would be able to go through a while without having that attention on them

[Thomith]

Toro i think EK is trying to say you are playing as if you wanted a mislynch not that you actually said you wanted a mislynch...

[Thomith]

why does it seem no one sees EK's reasoning for the GF and Mislynch thing. Emp is saying that Toro is acting like he wants to mislynch and played like a godfather. imo calling toro out for wanting a mislynch seems a little unfair early Day 1 as toro seems to genuinely think EK is scum. The godfather thing i can semi understand the reasoning behind it as godfathers could say that to get "cleared" by the cop. can there be Jesters in Mini-normals? if so i wouldn't be suprised if one of them was the jester.

[Thomith]

Toro what happened to the "im not voting Empking because there is a chance he is actually miller?" think about it, he might be scum but if we lynch him and he is miller then we just lynched a potential clear. EK doesn't seem like the best lynch today looking at both turnouts.

[Thomith]

Ok i have decided, Toro's Empking reasoning seems weird, although justified i think it is weird to BW the miller after you said you couldnt vote them not long before. VOTE: Toro

[Thomith]

it can do but i am unsure atm, i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly.

[Thomith]

Well i find it scummy that he is pushing the miller lynch which can be a possible clear to be lynched day 1, which is the reason why i voted.

[Thomith]

woah i dont think we should have a L-1 at this stage in the game UNVOTE: for now because i really dont want a hammer on someone untill there is a massivly solid case on them.

@Mod

if we dont use time before the deadline is it rolled over to the next day or just forgotten about?

[Thomith]

Empking: I don't like the miller claim or the reason. I still think he is lying.

Really? so you would have prefered if he stayed quiet untill the cop investigated him which COULD have been in LYLO and screw town over? Why do people think the claim is scummy, i don't see why.

and Volkan is scummy because he uses a different scumhunting approach? how does this work either?

[Thomith]

He seems to know I'm town.

No, i am merely saying this as you are a stupid lynch today as IF you are town we are basicly lynching someone who could have been cleared later on.

[Thomith]

Sorry for going inactive will catch up asap.

[Thomith]

reading through what i missed.

#441 goodposting by hiplop here, seems town to me although i use it it seems meta is a bad way to get a read on someone so i am going to stop.

#447 is basicly the reason why meta is bad although dont understand the FOS on hiplop at the point in time however pan explains it in a later post which helps me understand the FOS.

Im not a meta player at all, i dont like it + i'm lazy.

if you dislike meta why did you use it in that point in time?

#451 is again an explanation of why meta is bad.

Volkan: the end of number 430 slightly annoys me, when he wants to change PJs mind (even though PJ just called him town)

so this is scummy or not?

Hoppster's #458 is good posting and Sk's response to it seems like a scum/null tell.

#460 when is self-vig ever a good thing? do you think it is/ if you dont why did you go along with it?

#462 by SK is just wow. I dont know what to say about this other than it is very bad.

But I still think Hop is scum.

why?

i cant get over the town read i got on him from earlier on :\

scummy= scummy no matter how good the person was looking if they do something really scummy then they are scummy.

#491 is just a vote, huh? if you are going to change votes at least have some sort of reasoning or it looks random.

#502 is good posting by hoppster again, dont understand why some people think he is scum.

#514 seems weird but null, Scum Motivation- saving a partner Town Motivation- trying to save a town read, this post's meaning is probably the latter.

from the re-read hiplop and SK seem the scummiest with hiplop given a slight edge. VOTE: hiplop SK i have my eye on you.

[Thomith]

Panz's vote makes it L-1 dont hammer yet, i want to see him defend himself.

@Sundy as others said why did you switch your vote?

[Thomith]

While Elf's play was all over the place, it didn't seem all that scum-motivated so much as confused. In addition to that, ISOs 30 and 31 suggest that Elfen knew what the Town win-con was, and ISO 34 suggests that it wasn't from the opening post. While this could no doubt be a ploy, Elfen doesn't honestly seem that.. intricate. A brief meta of his other games helps confirm this. He also links to another site he played on in one of them, confirming that he comes from a mafia metagame far different than the one here. (the game he linked to does not have the town pm in the opening post)

You mean from here? #30 does suggest Elfen knows the Town Wincon but i just find it semi weird you would ask for someones wincon as a VT pm is in the first post so mafia could easily fake it.

the meta bit i dont know about, i dislike meta after the game where i got lynched in lylo as town because meta basically clouded over my eyes and screwed me over, not saying it is scummy i am saying it isnt the best thing to go on alone.
looking back Elfen didn't seem overly scummy but hiplop seems more scummy than him, however i am semi-willing to hammer SK.

[Thomith]

anyone else want SK to claim?

[Thomith]

so sunday do you still have any shots left? suprised by hiplop flip, guess im going to have to look at my reads and see if anything can change them next time.

[Thomith]

i dont think SK ever voted fool. If he did i missed it.

[Thomith]

oh fool replaced jake. makes sence now.

[Thomith]

Vote:xvart]/b] Positive he bussed Sleepy.

do you have any reasoning behind this accusation, if so i would like to see it.

[Thomith]

i see you're point but with SK sheeping xvart i dont see how this is xvart bussing SK which is what the accusation says.

[Thomith]

I like Panzer's case on xvart a lot.

VOTE: xvart

liking is different than agreeing. i can like a case on someone but not necisseraly agree with it.

the vote seems like sheeping, do YOU have any scumtells on xvart yourself?

[Thomith]

I like Panzer's case on xvart a lot.

VOTE: xvart

liking is different than agreeing. i can like a case on someone but not necisseraly agree with it.

the vote seems like sheeping, do YOU have any scumtells on xvart yourself?

Sunday i don't know if you missed this or are ignoring it but please answer the question here.

[Thomith]

Fine, we let Toto live.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jake
I'll just put that there while I read up on Hop.

Looks like an easy jump on a lurker when the old wagon didn't work to me.

i don't understand this post. to me it reads "looks like sleepykrew jumped from my wagon to someone elses" even though jake is the same slot as you. correct me if im wrong.
for this post on how i understand it VOTE: TheFool

[Thomith]

Fine, we let Toto live.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jake
I'll just put that there while I read up on Hop.

Looks like an easy jump on a lurker when the old wagon didn't work to me.

i don't

fully

understand this post. to me it reads "looks like sleepykrew jumped from my wagon to someone elses" even though jake is the same slot as you. correct me if im wrong.
for this post on how i understand it
VOTE: TheFool

EBWOP

[Thomith]

then i misunderstood the post and so i will
UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

It is the July 4th weekend so people are probably inactive because of that.

[Thomith]

Hmm, Emp actually looks pretty town. Although he only mentions PBuG once. Not sure what to think of that.

Sundy now

Care to explain how Empking looks town? All you said here is "Emp and PBuG are scumteam, oh wait Emp looks town"

[Thomith]

we have 10 days left till deadline and xvart is at L-1? starting to think the wagon could be scum motivated, can everyone on the xvart wagon please tell me why they think xvart is scum, please and thanks.

[Thomith]

it was not L-3 it was L-2 i didn't see PBuG's unvote and thought it was L-1. either way i still want to hear from each person why they think he is scummy so we know they are not just jumping on a wagon.

[Thomith]

it was not L-3 it was L-2 i didn't see PBuG's unvote and thought it was L-1. either way i still want to hear from each person why they think he is scummy so we know they are not just jumping on a wagon.

blah nevermind it was L-3. sunday why did you unvote with no explanation Empking why is xvart scum.

[Thomith]

it seems panzer has contradicted himself alot about the miller claim and meta. VOTE: Panzer for the contradictions.

[Thomith]

CC i think you fail to relise PBuG wasn't the only person to defend Emps miller claim, PBuG me and i am fairly certain afew others were saying the miller claim was not scummy so you calling PBuG ONLY out for that i find slightly scummy.

so far my suspects are consistant of: CC, The Fool and Panzer/xvart.

I think one of the scum lies in panzer or xvart but i am unsure which, i would be suprised if both were town or both were scum.

[Thomith]

also i would like to hear more from: panzer and hoppster as i feel that they have slipped under the radar a little.
oh and sunday:

I like Panzer's case on xvart a lot.

VOTE: xvart

liking is different than agreeing. i can like a case on someone but not necisseraly agree with it.

the vote seems like sheeping, do YOU have any scumtells on xvart yourself?

Sunday i don't know if you missed this or are ignoring it but please answer the question here.

Answer please.

[Thomith]

Sundy: Who do you think I am talking to (ie. who do you think is guilty of ignoring me)?

Sunday, Volkan, Thomith, and TheFool?

he means those who thought SK was town despite him screaming about it.

[Thomith]

And yes I still feel Empking is gambiting scum.

explain this please panzer, this reads scummy as hell to me as EK has been acting far more towny than you.

[Thomith]

if i'm honest i still dont fully see the case on CC. can someone on the wagon explain FULLY what the case on him is.

[Thomith]

And yes I still feel Empking is gambiting scum.

explain this please panzer, this reads scummy as hell to me as EK has been acting far more towny than you.

Oh, also I need context

[Thomith]

oops sorry about that accidently hit submit. Panzer you said EK is gambiting scum, where did EK do this?

[Thomith]

When he claimed Miller dude...So are you gonna read your role pm and unvote me or what?

miller claim does not mean scummy, as town could claim it to help cop in the long run. even if they are scum it will give cop one less person to investigate narrowing down a possible guilty report. is this the only reason why EK is scummy? if there is more please tell me.

[Thomith]

A) Did you really forget we were masons together?

...
ok rereading because of this.

[Thomith]

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

my reasoning behind it was if he did die mafia couldn't easily call me out as mason buddy.

[Thomith]

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

my reasoning behind it was if he did die mafia couldn't easily call me out as mason buddy.

TRYING. TO. LYNCH. SOMEONE. WHO. YOU. KNOW. IS. TOWN. IS. ANTITOWN.

i only voted. i never knew the wagon was going to pick up so much pace.

[Thomith]

We have been ignoring the QT to be honest

[Thomith]

I agree that monk has acted town, but that is only one post out of quite afew of CC's scummy posts. idk if a lynch on monk would be a good or bad idea yet, afew more posts could help me decide.

[Thomith]

what is confusing about PBuG saying 3 more scum will be OP and asking why monk didn't ISO sundy but iso'd the null reads?

[Thomith]

looking back fool kind of looks like they have the most connections to SK and EK's arguement about bussing makes sence thinking about it.

[Thomith]

VOTE: Thefool as EK has stated sleepy could have been bussing, plus Monk's ISO of you seems accurate.

[Thomith]

This is exactly why I am more inclined to believe that this whole mason stuff is complete and utter bullshit. Thomith is now concocting a story about how he didn't want the obvious connection to his mason buddy who flips maifa???? The whole point of masonry is that they are confirmed town to each other!

nice way to

completely twist my words

VOTE: xvart because why would town try to twist someones words?

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

[Thomith]

any chance of a deadline extention? :/

anyway xvart was twisting my words in the last post and monk has been trying his best to scumhunt and gut says he is town, if not xvart then fool because of EK's reasoning. I need to go soon and wont be back for deadline to assure we dont NL. sorry in advance if it matters.

[Thomith]

Blast, so close to having scum out in the open.

could you explain this in different words that mean the same as what you meant please, as this could be read in more than one way.

[Thomith]

I think xvart is town.

Why do you think this?

[Thomith]

I think xvart is town.

Why do you think this?

His general posting.

explain please.

[Thomith]

you know what, although i REALLY dislike xvart twisting my words my gut is telling me sum wouldn't draw so much attention to themselves by posting so many walls in a row...
UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

you know what, although i REALLY dislike xvart twisting my words my gut is telling me sum wouldn't draw so much attention to themselves by posting so many walls in a row...
UNVOTE:

The problem here is that you were voting me for an isolated incident and not the whole collection of "word twisting" that I am being accused of. Once my error was pointed out I struck what I said. And the whole bailing on my wagon due to wall posting being an alignment tell is especially weak since my wall posting has been occurring all game and not a new thing.

yes i know, i rethought what happened over the game and i doubt scum would bring attention to themselves like that.

[Thomith]

I voted for panzer so if he died the scum wouldn't be able to know i was the mason partner. I didn't know the wagon was going to progress so fast, heck i didn't even think it was going to wagon at all.

[Thomith]

I dislike some of xvart's play however i don't really see scum playing like he does making me unsure of his allignment. I also agree nobody else should claim today.

[Thomith]

If Xvart does get lynched, his flip will tell us a lot about alignment.

What will it tell us about allignments?

[Thomith]

I don't know. if xvart is scum i cant tie him to anyone as a partner. I don't imo think we will learn anything from an xvart flip as i cant find any parters atm if he does flip scum.

[Thomith]

sundy why monk over thefool?

[Thomith]

VOTE: Thefool as both monk and thefool are under suspicon and i dislike that everyone who isn't voting xvart seems to be voting monk.
also idk if an xvart lynch will bring us any information at all. If anyone wants to tell me why and how it will then i would like to know. Thanks.

[Thomith]

because TF lynch wont happen and how close deadline is i will UNVOTE: VOTE: MonkVOTE: as looking back xvart has kind of been acting protown all game.

[Thomith]

because TF lynch wont happen and how close deadline is i will UNVOTE: VOTE: Monk as looking back xvart has kind of been acting protown all game.

ebwop to fix tags

[Thomith]

sorry forgot about begining of the line thing
UNVOTE: VOTE: Monk

[Thomith]

ok close to deadline and there is a 4-5 vote split. Please people do something to stop a no lynch as this wont help town at all.

@mod i will be semi-V/LA as of tommurrow, i should be able to post though but if i go 3/4 days without posting then take it that something happened meaning i cannot post anymore and replace me. Sorry for any inconvenience

[Thomith]

I...go away for afew days... and i'm dead... whut?

[Thomith]

i should have gone with my gut and got panzer lynched, but i really didnt think i could win with just me alive.

[Thomith]

I was stuck into the mason claim because I had breadcrumbed it for later in the game and I was trying to play in a way where Thomith wouldn't vote me, than he was lured in by Xvart's very silly case. I should have just played head up and let monk/CC get lynched.

I think traitor is a pretty difficult role to play, and I think your breadcrumb was a pretty smart way to play it such that scum would want to kill you (I'm guessing if the scum tried to kill you you got recruited instead?) and then you could really flesh it out after having the opportunity to talk to your partners. But when it was joined with the miller stuff it undermined the entire thing since you would have to eventually claim mason with the person that just "counterclaimed" you or

hope that Thomith stays out of the limelight

.

This. It was going according to plan until he voted me, than I just didn't know what to do, so I threw a hail mary.

sorry about that, i had a PR read on you and wanted you gone. Shame you ended up being traitor :/