Cultural Revolution is Over!

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure if the posting restriction we got actually means anything, probably not, but just in case...

Follow Mao Zedong Thought!

Down with capitalist roaders!

We stand for self-reliance!

Down with petty-bourgeois fanaticism!

Long live Chairman Mao, the Great Helmsman!

Smash the capitalist roaders!

Inspire the struggle of revolutionary people !

The Chairman wrote:"The enemy will not perish of himself!" And indeed, we must find and crush those who would bring disaster to our dream.

"To Be Attacked by the Enemy Is Not a Bad Thing but a Good Thing."

Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure if the posting restriction we got actually means anything, probably not, but just in case...

<Snip Lots Of Post Restriction Requirements>

Question, Yosarian: Were you forced to post *ALL* of the post restriction sentences, or did you just feel like doing it for whatever reason?

Possible follow-up question: If you weren't forced to post every single one of those, why would you post all of them? Also, which one(s) were you forced to post?

I was forced to post one of them. I was wondering if there was some kind of pattern, some way of figuring out which role was which based on which quote they posted. So, I figured I might as well confuse the issue by posting both my post restriction, AND everyone else's, as well as a few other random Mao quotes, just so that no one could tell which one it was that I had to say, just in case it later turns out that "all cops said X, all vanillia townies said Y, all masons said Z", ect.
Probably just paranoia on my part, but hey, it's a paranoid game.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm, I'll buy that for now. My first impression was that you posted all of them because you had a shady reason to hide which one is your real restriction. Which I'm not going to drop completely, but I'm not going to pursue it at the moment.

(shrug) If it helps, my restriction was one of the restrictions someone else had already said, which was part of the reason i was worried that there might be a pattern.

[Yosarian2]

It is a possibility that all the ones with the same restrictions are in the same group (Mafia, Town, whatever), but I think it is more probable that it's made this way to get us confused.

I really doubt the mod would hand us the scum on a silver platter like that; it's possible the restrictions mean something, but if so, I suspect it might give the scum as much or more information as the town. (shrug)

[Yosarian2]

It looks like all of our quotes are unique from each other

Not true, as I already said.

[Yosarian2]

I don't have much to add right now except that Yosarian2 and Twomz seem the most suspicious to me right now. Yosarian2 seems too worried that his quote might mean something; if the quotes do mean something and he is protown he would have nothing to worry about. Also, the fact that Twomz felt he needed to fake a posting restriction seems weird to me as it was clearly stated in the role PM that their was one and if he did not have he should not have worried about it. I'm going to wait to vote however as it doesn't seem enough to vote for either of them yet.

unvote

I was very clear why I didn't want to share my quote. Why would anyone give away something that might hint at their role on day 1 if they didn't have to? You're all just jelous you didn't think of my "I can say my quote, and everyone else's quote too" loophole.

Anyway, Pug's whole "Yosarian looks scummy, and twomz looks scummy too...I'm not going to vote for either of them yet, but I've got an eye on them both" just looks scummy to me. It just looks like he's trying to quietly support a bandwagon on either me or twomz, and get himself into a position where he could jump on either one, without actually committing himself to anything. That kind of "he looks scummy, but I'm not going to vote yet..." hestiation on day 1 just looks suspicious to me.

vote:Pug89

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2, why the vote on Pug89? We know there are more than two mafia in this game (it would be bizarre if there were only two), so I don't see what's wrong with Pug89 holding multiple suspicions.

On day 1, if you have any real reason at all to suspect someone, you should probably vote them, especally if they don't have any votes on them at all at the time; anything better then total randomness is good for day 1. When I see someone attack multiple people at once but not vote for anyone on day 1, it makes me wonder if he's a scum who's trying to make other people look more suspicious without committing himself to a bandwagon.

[Yosarian2]

:Still keeping my vote on Pug, at LEAST until he respondes.:

[Yosarian2]

I don't really see any strong reason to attack Twomz; I saw his first post as more of a joke then anything else, just like how in haxxors mafia only a few of us were required to speek in l33t, but everyone else did anyway for the first page or so just for the gimmick factor of it. And if he really was going to fake a Mao-ist post restriction, I don't think he would have put "hail hitler" into it...

[Yosarian2]

so we can't unvote....

looks like a nolynch today then most likely.

Wait...we can't unvote?

[Yosarian2]

Why are we running up Y right now?

[Yosarian2]

Since I don't know Fritzler, can some one explain to me what is it all about?

Fritzlzer tends to give the impression that he's more or less votes at random, joining whatever bandwagon seems most likley to give him a chance to kill someone at that moment in time. Sometimes I think there's a method behind his madness; sometimes I'm not sure.

I'm not going to vote for Y just because Fritzler is voting for him. I'm also not going to vote for Fritzler just for acting like he always acts regardless of alignment. The person who looks scummiest in all this is Bacde, for the way he blindly followed a Fritzler vote.

Actually Fritzler has a point.

Unvote: Glork; Vote: Y

unvote

vote:Bacde

[Yosarian2]

I don't know why so many people bandwagoned me for something so stupid. I didn't like my random vote, and hadn't changed it since then, and decided to move it another person.

It's not that you changed it to another person that looks suspicious. It was why you did, and when. Mindlessly and quietly following an agressive player onto a bandwagon without giving any reasons of your own (any reasons at all, for that matter) just looks scummy.

[Yosarian2]

I disagree. I wasn't quiet at all. You accuse me of doing things I haven't. I take full responsibility for my votes.

Let me re-phrase. When I said quiet, I don't mean you're lurking. I just mean that the vote looked "quiet"; it was a very short, 2 line post, and you had not spoken about your vote or any suspicious on Y anywhere else. That looks like a "quiet vote", by which I mean I think you were hoping to quietly join the bandwagon without anyone really noticing.

[Yosarian2]

It's always a good idea to vote w/ Fritz. Even if he's mafia, we can analyze who he wagoned and possible find out who his buddies were. Bandwagons are the pointy Rapier of the towns arsinal... and Fritz wields it like a throwing knife. (just hope you get hit w/ the hilt ).

I don't agree. If Fritz is a good guy, then it's a good idea for scum to quietly follow an agressive GG to a bad lynch, if they think they can get away with it, because then either the agressive player who started it or the person who dropped the hammer usually seems to take most of the blame for the bad bandwagon, not the people who quietly snuck onto the bandwagon in the middle. So all else being equal, that's where I usually look for scum. (Sort of an advanced version of the "third one on the bandwagon is scum" rule)

Personally, I'm not a big fan of blindly following bandwagons. If I don't see one that I like, I'd rather make my own. If you let people get away with being sheep, then that becomes the ideal scum tactic.

[Yosarian2]

Does anyone want to go No Lynch? There is 28 players, we don't have much to go on right now anyway.

(shrug) Not really. We don't have much information to go on, so we might as well get some information from a semi-random lynch and seeing how the different bandwagons go and starting to get a voting record on people, instead of just sitting back and letting the scum kill some pro-town person or people tonight and hoping any cops get lucky and don't get killed.

[Yosarian2]

unvote if voting, vote mlaker

Why, just because he's talking about a no-lynch?

[Yosarian2]

No, because of 4posts total.

Ah. That's a much better reason. Ok, fair enough.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not hiding, and switching votes once so far this game doesn't make me lynch-happy, or a hider, it makes me conservative, and someone who doesn't want to keep his origional random vote. Would you really prefer that I go back to randomly voting, or do you want to make progress here?

How often you switched your vote, or how "conservative" you are, is irrelevent. The thing that you did that looks scummy is the way you joined a rapidly growing bandwagon for a bad reason. "Trying to make progress" in not an excuse, nor is "my origional vote was a random vote". Who you were voting for before the scummy looking bandwagon vote is irrelevent, and the fact that you never voted for anyone for any real reason before the bandwagon vote makes you look more suspicious, not less. The question is, why did you choose to join the bandwagon at that moment?

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) I still don't like lynching Twomz just on the basis of what looks like a page one joke post.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) I understand this bandwagon, mlaker hasn't posted very much real content today, but as always, I do think we should give him a chance to either defend himself or claim before anyone hammers him.

[Yosarian2]

CES will your daughter cease being able to communicate with you if she is turned?

I would think that's just the kind of information we DON'T want the scum to have. It's a shame Glork already answered the question; now, the BG's know that if they recruit a mason, the other masons will know right away about it.

If there is a evil recruiting group, and it sounds like there is, you just sucessfully fished for information that will tell them who they can and can't recruit safely.

Vote:Tamuz

[Yosarian2]

Er what?

Is it definite that we have a cult? I dont understand...

Well, Glork's PM apparently said his daughter might be recruited, so it seems pretty clear we have recuriting bad guys. Most likely a cult, although I've seen a SK that could recruit before.

[Yosarian2]

This is where I was going with this, I had another question, but I decided to not ask it, too helpful for scum.

Ok, so why didn't it occur to you that the question you already asked was too helpful for the cult?

You just dug for information and, because of your questions, the cult now knows that "This person is recruit-proof, and this other person could be recruited, but the town will know right away unless the two masons are dead first".

I strongly suspect that you were digging for that information because you are part of the cult. Otherwise, how did you expect the town to gain by finding that information out?

[Yosarian2]

From earlier:

So Fritzler sent a PM, which results into a posting restriction for Thok.

The same happened for Glork.

Ahem? I don't recall mentioning a posting restriction or recieving a PM.

Ok, Glork; want to clarify that? Did you get a PM from The Unwritten, or not?

[Yosarian2]

I don't really think the ability makes much of a difference; I didn't think TU was that suspicious before he claimed, but I don't think his claim makes him any more or less suspicious then before. I've seen "passing secret notes" type abilites a few times before, and about half the time it was a scum abilitiy.

TU, what's the flavor behind your "secret message" ability?

[Yosarian2]

The odd thing about the flavor of these claims is, if you get a secret note from someone who disagrees with the evil Maoist government, why would you have a post restriction that forces you to say it to everyone? Now, if one role gave post restrictions and one didn't, I'd suspect that one of being some kind of communist propagana...with them both causing a post restriction and FORCING the other person to say whatever you want them to say, though, I'm not sure what to think.

[Yosarian2]

About 4 pages ago, Tamuz was fishing for information about who could and could not be recruited sucessfully, so I voted for him on suspicioun that he might be part of the cult.

[Yosarian2]

unvote, vote The Unwritten

Interesting timing. Any specific reason why you're voting the unwritten now, right after everyone else unvoted him?

[Yosarian2]

Uhh, where are we sure of this cult from? Last time I've seen such pressing of a cult in a game, I did it, and I was anti-town.

Uhhh, perhaps from how our mason told us that it discribed in his role PM what would happen if his daughter got recruited?

As to my 'fishing' I have already said I KNEW THIS, I just felt it pressing to get it out to the town for there are less checks than the two of CES and Glork in other places of this game. In fact I fear there is already a turn over due to the few kills in the night. With me dead, the only one to know this is completly inactive.

...what? I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.

If you already knew, then why did you ask this question?

CES will your daughter cease being able to communicate with you if she is turned?

[Yosarian2]

1. It is stated that if the children are targetted they will be turned. Parents DIE. To me that doesn't sound like a cult.
2. I felt the town needed to know, otherwise actions of the dead can be misinterpretted and children can skate by. Why did I do it through an interoggative, so that once CES or Myself die, as we most likely will, the town can trust the information and keep the other alive.

The thing is, if you had not said anything, the recruiting bad guys would probably have wasted a recruitment on either a mason or a daughter, which would have been less then optimal for them. The information you got Glork to reveal therefore helped the recruiting bad guys. Your claim that you already knew the information is interesting, but does not really prove anything; if anything, if you already knew the information, why didn't you realize how much the information woudl help the recruitng bad guys?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, that is founded on the assumption that we have true recruiting bad guys. I feel we have a mafia with cult elements. I agree with Tamúz' interpretation of the recruitability. As such, he has not given out information that would hurt the town.

If there are any bad guys who can recruit, I don't think it really matters if it's a recruiting cult, recruiting mafia, recruiting SK, or any other anti-town recruiting group; no matter what, if there are any bad guys that can recruit, we don't want them to know who they can and can't recruit, right?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, cool. Like I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the people with the "passing messages" ability was scum.

unvote

vote:Fritzer

[Yosarian2]

ok w/e I probably shouldn't be doing this cause I don't know my sanity yet but : I have a guilty of fritz, this game has slowed and I don't see it going anywhere else today.

By the way, do you have any flavor-based reason to doubt your sanity, or are you just being cautious?

[Yosarian2]

Who cares? We'll find out his sanity soon enough.

With me, brethren!

Yeah, but I would like to have him answer the question first; if nothing else, it will us a better idea of what to do tommorow if we lynch Fritz and he turns out to be a GG.

[Yosarian2]

The death of docisalive seems to be from a wayward Doctor, or something. Read the flavor of the death: he was misdiagnosed. That implies an innocent mistake, methinks.... though I'm not sure why a doc would protect a practically-confirmed Peasant. (Oh, that reminds me: Shame on all of you who said "Docisalive is the play tomorrow" when his combined claim with Twomz basically confirmed them both.) It might've been a vigilante acting on the "docisalive is the play tomorrow" sentiment at the end of the day, but I kinda doubt it.

That's possible...an insane doctor, or a doctor with a chance of failure? That would make some sense. If there's an insane doctor, then hopefully he's figured out he's insane now, which would make him basically a vig. Or it could be one of those "save the person if he's being attacked, kill the person if not" kind of roles, which are very trickey to use well.

If there is a doctor who tried to protect TheDoc last night, he should be very careful how he uses his ability from now on.

[Yosarian2]

Yossieboy, why'd you post if you're not gonna vote for Y?

I did mark down in my notes that Y seemed to be following me a lot this game, espceally in the cases where I turned out to be wrong. That always worries me, because whenever someone does that, I always wonder if they're scum trying to set me up. Right now, I'm planning to go back going to go back and re-read his posts and some other people's posts before I place any votes.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, one question for Y.

Yesterday, you said:

I'm back.

I'm

voting Fritzler

.

I'm

FOSing thedocsalive

because I noticed the same thing as Shamrock and I've been suspicious about him for a long time.

Why were you FOSing thedocsalive, exactally? Just because Shamrock was?

[Yosarian2]

vote:pug

[Yosarian2]

What's the rationalle behind this BJ wagon?

I'm not going for the masons, because I know for a fact that one of the things Glork has said today is false.

It makes me think.

Oh? What's that?

[Yosarian2]

Normally, it's nice to have confirmed innocents held back until the endgame, when possible. However, the only problem is, if the red guard are recruiting, the value of an innocent investigation drops over time...if chamber got an innocent on someone 3 days ago, then they might have been recruited since then.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) When in doubt, there's nothing wrong with following a confirmed innocent. If you follow someone who's confirmed, they may be right or they may be wrong. If you're following someone who's not confirmed, they may be right, they may be wrong, or they may be scum.

That being said, I would like some kind of justification for this Baby Jesus wagon. His voting record isn't great, but if Mao and his SK assistant were actually traditional SKers and not somehow linked to the maoists and the red guard and all that, that dosn't really mean very much.

[Yosarian2]

All right. That makes sense. I've also noticed BJ has been less agressive at trying to find scum then he usually is when town, which made me wonder.

vote:Baby Jesus.

[Yosarian2]

I'll be honest.. I have lost total interest in nthe game. I've been bored with the follow the cop mechanic, definately after a minute of discussion.

This game has involved no logical reasoning whatsoever, so why start now? If the town could stop playing follow the cop, maybe I'll play.

Well, today we don't have a guilty investigation to follow, so if you've got some logical reasoning you'd like to share about who you think is guilty or innocent, please do. Honestly, I'm also having trouble getting a good read on people this game, but that doesn't mean I've just given up.

[Yosarian2]

Not if the recruitee says no.

Unvote.

What's going on here?

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) As I said, one reason I'm voting for BJ is just because he does not appear to have been as agressive at hunting scum as I usually see him act as a good guy. Generally he's a pretty agressive voter and bandwagon jumper, but he's basically stayed out of the way of the major bandwagons that we've had so far, excpet the wagon on Fritzer, and he only joined that one after the cop investigation. My impression is that for the most part he's been avoiding being on any bandwagons that might go anywhere so as to not leave a voting record.

I'll admit it's not a lot to go on, though, and if someone has any better reasons to vote someone else, good logical thoughts about who would be a better lynch, I'd like to hear it.

[Yosarian2]

unvote

lurker

vote:SOS

SOS needs to post some real content, to explain who he thinks is scummy with actual, logical reasons for thinking, or else he needs to be lynched.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. It's time to claim, SOS.

[Yosarian2]

Man that's so racist.

LaR (lynch all racists).

LAPWMUBSA!

(lynch all people who make up BS acronyms)

[Yosarian2]

vote:shamrock

for defending scum yesterday.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...I think I'm pretty happy with my vote on shamrock. I thought he was suspicious based on his actions yesterday, and now that he's claiming he was semi-recruited by the bad guys, I see no reason to not lynch him.

One thought....if we do lynch him, I wonder will we even know if he was telling the truth or not afterwards, or if he'll just show up as a red guard?

[Yosarian2]

Say we have 5 people left. Two scum, two town, you. What happens?

I also wonder what would happen if we had 3 people left; 1 scum, and 2 "pro-town" red guard. If everyone's dead or in the red guard, wouldn't the scum probably win, even if some of the red guard supposedly would still win with the town?

[Yosarian2]

I still think that even if they're telling the truth, they might be a minor threat to the town, at least until someone can answer this question:

I also wonder what would happen if we had 3 people left; 1 scum, and 2 "pro-town" red guard. If everyone's dead or in the red guard, wouldn't the scum probably win, even if some of the red guard supposedly would still win with the town?

However, we've probably got bigger fish to fry; if we can find and kill the recruiter and the game dosn't end, we can worry about picking off the remaining red guard then. So

unvote

for now.

[Yosarian2]

Suggesting that two people that appear cleared for now would kill each other just to check something isn't such a good idea...
How will it slow down the recruiting?

Because it will force the recruiter to attempt to recruit people that are

already recruited

.

Um, how would it do that? If we're now assuming Shamrock is telling the truth, why would a recruiter try to recruit someone who is already semi-recruited and turned the recruiter down?

[Yosarian2]

I am keeping my vote on you since you've also straw-manned my thoughts on chamber in what seems like an attempt to make me look bad.

Straw-manned? You were saying we shouldn't trust the cop after two guiltys, saying he might be a recruiter accusing his recruits after he identified a SK.

I have no problem with you saying that my theory is wrong. I would consider the above statement reasonable.

I do have a problem with you misstating my theory by extending it in a ridiculous way that I never intended. (That's what a Straw Man is, and that's what you clearly did.) You claimed that I was asking for chamber to be the sole recruiter, who attempted to recruit like 5 people, including both of the SK's. I never claimed that.

Um, could someone point me to the posts these two guys are arguing about?

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...intersting point.

Bacade, you want to clarify this? When, precisely, were you recruited?

[Yosarian2]

I agree that "I torture people" makes Chamber sound more like a possible part of the maoist regime then anything else...not that I'm going to base much on flavor, but I would like a little more detail.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...I haven't been able to find any good results for
(cultural revolution) and (Commander Kun Pang)
on Yahoo. Perhaps someone else can find a good link?

[Yosarian2]

Eh...come to think of it, Chamber's role-flavor probably isn't that big of a deal anyway; most likely he was a good guy when he gave us scum, the only question is is he STILL a good guy or has he been recruited, and his role-flavor shouldn't have much to do with that issue.

[Yosarian2]

Well right now I'm extra-supportive of your wagon because of your actions D1.

Which day 1 actions would that be?

(is still trying to understand the logic behind this bandwagon)

[Yosarian2]

Yup. More details would be good, Y.

For example, does your role imply that there's only 1 real doc, or does it sound like there might be more then one?

[Yosarian2]

confirm vote Y

Heh...is this your "always lynch the doc" metagame thingy?

[Yosarian2]

I doubt we have a doc AND a back-up doc with percent failure types.

Yeah. My speculation had been that perhaps we have one sane doc and one insane doc (insane doc being a doc that kills instead of protects).

[Yosarian2]

But then why did no one die night 1?

Good question...perhaps they both targeted the same person?

(shrug) Just a guess, anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Everyone assembles at Red Square for a state funeral!

Oh, yes,

Glork

, aka

Ding Chen, Chen Mason Group

died of complications from dysentery. First he was given useless medication, then he was given the wrong medication... when the Maoists came for him... it was too late.

Sixteen left... nine kicks to the head to knock out permanently!

Useless medication. Nice. So we have two barefoot doctors, I guess one whose 's medication is sometimes useless, and one who's is sometimes wrong/fatal?

Could be. Could be we have a doc with a chance of lethal failure, or two docs with different possible results. I think my earlier speculation about having one insane doc is probably wrong; if a doc was completly insane (in other words, basically a vig), he would know it by know, and I doubt he would target Glork, unless he's some kind of odd bad guy role.

From the way the night scene is worded, I also wonder if the line "when the Maoists came for him..." means anything. Perhaps the maoists would have killed him last night if the doc didn't?

[Yosarian2]

Tamuz: So, your child didn't PM you last night, which makes you suspect they might have been turned?

Did you ever claim who your child was? (doesn't remember)

[Yosarian2]

My children have been very inactive talking to me, I don't know anything yet. I'm just hoping bringing it up front in the thread will make them assure me tonight.

Children, plural?

Interesting.

They may have been recruited a while ago; we apparently had 2 scum recruiters for a long time, and if 2 people were recruited every night, there should still be quite a few unclaimed recruits left, no matter what the actual status of the whole "bacade/shamrock/chamber" thing is.

In any case, we could give them another night to prove themselves and see if they can message you, but it might be best for you to name them today anyway. Otherwise, if at least one of them is scum and you haven't told us who they are, I would expect the bad guys to just kill you tonight.

[Yosarian2]

I think it's only everyother night they recruit. Else this would be long over for the town.

Well, at most, if they both recruited once per recruiter every night they were alive, and there weren't any role-blocks on them or attempts to recruit unrecruitable roles or anything like that, they could have recruited...le's see...at most 7 times, by my count. We have 1 dead recruit, fritzer, and 2 people who claimed they turned down a chance to be recruited. So, if bacade and shamrock are telling the truth, there might be as many as 4 other recruits left alive, out of the 16 of us. And of course there might be other bad guys still around as well.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, that is a good point. Chamber, why would you investigate Thok last night? His voting record was pretty good, as he pushed the Y lynch hard, and was on the Fritz lynch. Was there any specific reason you were suspicious of him?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...I guess the case against him is that Viper seemed a little to eager to lynch the claimed cop...if that's what it is, though, it seems odd that it's BJ making that attack when he was the one who's been attacking chamber for days now. I'm not going to join the viper bandwagon until BJ or one of the bandwagon's other supporters explains why they think it's a good idea.

[Yosarian2]

So are you a barefoot

doctor that kills

, the one thats useless, or another kind of doc...

either way,

confirm vote viper

???
I protected Fritzler night 1, then Thedocsalive night 2, and Y night 3. I made no kill day 4 (???). I protected Glork night 5.

Unless I only kill innocent people, I don't see how that makes sense. However, that makes Fritzler an evil person.

Um...you made "no kill" night 4? Did you mean to say you made "no protect" night 4, or was that a freudian slip?

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...well, we do need to hear from Pooky a lot more; he's only posted twice this month. Is that the reason you're voting for him, BJ, or is there more?

[Yosarian2]

I think the barefoot doc, who always kills innocents, could easily be a flavor for a killing role.

FOS BJ

Tthe barefoot doc probably isn't a standard scum-killing role, I think, because we've only had a barefoot doc kill twice so far this game. Does not prove that that the barefoot doc is not some kind of anti-town role, but I doubt it's just "flavor for a killing role".

[Yosarian2]

Oh, yes,

Glork

, aka

Ding Chen, Chen Mason Group

died of complications from dysentery. First he was given useless medication, then he was given the wrong medication... when the Maoists came for him... it was too late.

I'm not sure that means two seperate docs, BJ; I mean, it could, or it could just be flavor where while trying to cure him of dysentery the doc first gave him useless medicaction, then wrong medication. It dosn't really say if it was one doc or two.

[Yosarian2]

vote: No Lynch

with our voting record in comparison to who we've killed, the scum to town ratio is shot. we have a crapshoot hitting any scum, especially with the not being able to trust chamber ordeal now.

I'd rather make it through this night and make a trio of innocent townies. and go from there. And we do know there is another mason group around here somewhere. If we could get all the masons 100% certified that would be a powerful force for the mafia to try and desemble 1x1.

But wouldn't we be better off lynching an unconfirmed, and trying to eventually get to the point where most of the people left are confirmed?

Anyway, our odds of hitting scum aren't that bad. Like I said, there could be as many as 4 red guard left, and who knows how many other bad guys.

[Yosarian2]

Your lack of reasoning. Plus the post you quoted.

Now I regret using my "lack of reasoning" to try and help clear you.

unvote, vote viper

Such stupidity in the hands of a vig is more detrimental to the town if we leave you alive. You are a liability, and need to die.

However, even lynching stupid townies is bad because it effectively gives the scum (and whatever other baddies can nightkill) another night to effectively take potshots at the town without the town taking down one of their number. In short lynching stupid townies != best strategy.

Lynching stupid townies is a bad stratagy, but lynching a stupid vig is not always one. I'd rather he just agree to be more careful, but if he dosn't agree to stop killing masons, then lynching him might be necessary.

[Yosarian2]

Is there any hidden logic behind this coron wagon? The only unusual thing I've noticed about him is that he hasn't been killed yet.

[Yosarian2]

I thought BJ was a mason. I really don't get why people say "confirm vote". Just say nothing.

Wait a second...what? Where do you get that from?

I just went back through all of his posts, and unless I missed something, I don't see any post where BJ claimed mason. And earlier in the game, one of the mason groups was trying pretty hard to lynch him. What makes you think he's a mason? Where'd you get that from?

That being said, voting for BJ dosn't seem like an especally good idea right now, as he's got a pretty good voting record; his attacks against SOS and Y especally make me feel reasonably happy about him; I still don't feel like I have a good idea how many scum groups there are, with the varying number of kills we keep having, but I have a strong feeling BJ's probably not part of the Red Guard group, anyway, as he played a pretty big part in the lynching of both recruiters. So, Coron, Viper, and Pooky, why are you voting for BJ?

[Yosarian2]

Hmhm. Are we in a lylo yet? With 2 NKs thats still too many. cant be a lot of scum left, we were quiet good at killing them so far.

Well, let's think. We started with 28 people, right? If 25% of the people we started with were scum, that would make around 7 bad guys at the start of the game. (With 2 recruiters making more bad guys, I would think that 25% scum might be a little high; I would guess it to be less, actually, but I guess it's hard to say without knowning more about the set-up.) We lynched 4 people who started the game as bad guys, and we lynched 1 recruit. So there might be three "starting" bad guys left, and like I figured out yesterday, there might be as many as 4 recruits left.

I doubt we're in lynch or lose, though, because while there could be a lot of bad guys left, they're most likely in at least two different group; I really doubt any group could have started with 2 recruiters and anyone else and have the game still be balanced. So I'm thinking the worst case senerio might be one group of at most 4 recruits, and one group of 3 scum. Or it could be one group of 3 or 4 and another triggered SK who just recently became active.

[Yosarian2]

Why do you want chamber's result so badly?

Well, if I trusted him, I wouldn't mind letting him wait and letting him reveal his results when he wanted to.

However, because there seems to be chance that chamber is now scum, then letting him wait and only reveal results when he choses could let him hide his identiry and manipulate the town without giving us useful information; he could say he got a guilty on someone we were going to lynch anyway to make himself look better, or he could wait until someone dies and then say he got an innocent on them so as to not give the town any real information, or any number of other thigns.

[Yosarian2]

I fully intened, as with pass days, to reveal the result before the day ends. Also its not guilty, if it were Id say it were relevent.

Well, I appriciate that, but I still think that getting you to reveal your investigation now, instead of after you see how the day's discussion will go, may help give us a better idea about your alighnment.

[Yosarian2]

Also the only reason you have to doubt me that I see, is that Id be a good cult recruit, but that’s complete wifom.

Well, I'm not sure if it really is a WIFOM issue. You were clearly a threat to the cult, as soon as you got Fritzer lynched that was made clear. If they couldn't kill you because of doc protection or whatever, and if they could recruit you, I would expect them to try, to neutralize the threat you posed to them if nothing else.

Now, that dosn't mean you have been recruited, but you must admit you'd be a very logical target.

[Yosarian2]

Back it with behavioral evidence if you want to suggest I’m not town

Well, I have some now.

You're lynching me before you force me to reveal anything.

That's not the way a real pro-town cop would, or at least should, ever act.

vote:chamber

[Yosarian2]

hmm

unvote, vote yosarian

Because of my Chamber vote?

(shrug)

The reason I was not voting for him earlier was because he had promised he was going to reveal his investigation before the end of the day, and, as I thought I made clear, I was hoping to use that to get a better idea of his alignment before deciding if I was going to vote for him or not. Now that it looks like he's going back on his earlier promise and has decided he's not going to claim his investigation at all, first of all it just looks scummy as there's no logical reason for a real pro-town cop to do that now, and secondly, there was no point in me waiting any longer if he wasn't going to reveal his investigation even in the face of being lynched. If he does change his mind and claim his investigation, I may re-evaluate my vote based on that.

[Yosarian2]

Alright. I still don't trust Chamber, but so long as he is still revealing his investigations, the possible payoff of keeping him alive (if he's town) is probably worth the risk of keeping him alive (if he's cult).

unvote

It sounds like Zindaras might have some solid information there about Pooky.

vote:Pooky

. Zinderas, any reason you guys didn't tell us earlier that Pooky wasn't talking to you?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I don't know LML's or Tamuz's motivations. The thing that makes me most suspicious of Pooky is Tamuz's death. If Pooky was recruited, he/she knows that he/she can't talk to Tamuz or me anymore. Tamuz knew that. Pooky would've assumed I didn't. Tamuz's death made me suspect Pooky more, especially seeing how Pooky is pretty active in thread.

(Remember: the first time I could talk to Tamuz was last night)

As for why I didn't do it earlier today, first I wanted to see if something else would happen, then I was away (for the past 4 days).

Well, Glork did say earlier in the game that a recruited mason (or mason's daugher, or whatever it is) can't talk anymore, so I would think Pooky would have known you knew anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...perhaps it wasn't Glork who said it origionally; I can't find it now. However, he did make reference to it:

Alternatively, CES and I know exactly who that person would be. We can each send a PM to each other every night. If this other masonpartner fails to send one night, we lynch them the next day. I suggest the other mason group(s) try to make a similar agreement on their own. We need to keep regular tabs on those we think can be convereted, and having masonship is awfully convenient for such a task.

[Yosarian2]

let's just lynch yosarian. I don;t like a chamber or a pooky vote just yet.

Um, you've been pushing for both to be lynched. For days. What changed your mind?

As for Pooky, it's now pretty clear that Pooky is who Tamuz was talking about when he said:

My children have been very inactive talking to me, I don't know anything yet. I'm just hoping bringing it up front in the thread will make them assure me tonight.

So after Tamuz making such a big deal about it in the thread, there is no excuse at all for Pooky not sending a message to his mason brothers, if he could. I think it's very likely that Pooky could not send a message because he was recruited.

that's wierd .

ask the mod if i'm the impressionable youth.

Um...are you claiming you're not the recruitable mason? Or that you forgot what your role is or something?

sides both recruiters dead alrdy

Except you didn't send a message to either of your mason partners at all, even while the recruiters were still alive.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, now I'm about to be lynched for no reason. Great.

Baby Jesus, were you planning to answer my question? Why is it you suddenly changed your mind? You've been pushing to lynch Pooky for days, and now that we have an actual reason to suspect him, you suddenly don't want to.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, honestly, if anything, i think the scum was overpowered. After several scum mistakes, including mine, the town lynched one of us almost every single day for quite a while. It required a lot of skill for Twomz to come back and win after all that, he played very well, but honestly, it was only possible for us scum to get that many of us lynched that early and still win becuase our kill/recruit powers were kind of crazy.