Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

/confirm.

[don_johnson]

vote: xvart

mow your lawn.

[don_johnson]

don who?

[don_johnson]

So to get some discussion going, Don I find it just s tad interesting that you post shortly after I vote for you, especially since your post was to clarify which don I voted for.

just got home from work. my question was rhetorical.

Also Don, you seem to be posting elsewhere on site but not posting in here during the same time frame. I could understand a lack of time excuse if we were actually debating or discussing something heavy, but thats not the case here.

i never gave an "excuse". not sure what you are getting at.

Any reason why you aren't posting in here?

not in particular, no. can't talk about ongoing games, but i did just win one.

[don_johnson]

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

[don_johnson]

vote: celebloki

Stupid hammer was stupid.

v/la til 27

[don_johnson]

what waffle? i wasn't even around when the lynch was carried through. i never voted beck, and i never backed off on my stance that the wagon was good(cause beck was quicklynched.) my stance can hardly be described as a waffle. i demand you choose better verbage.

[don_johnson]

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

[don_johnson]

No. im town. The implication there was that xvart might be a scum neighbor. His accusation came out of nowhere, so id like him to expand.

[don_johnson]

V/la does not mean absent. I hav been posting from my phone. Xvarts explanation is a bit protown, and yes, town neighbors thoroughly crossed my mind. If I was scum, breadcrumbing would be virtual suicide as an xvart ttown flip would incriminate me more than exonerate me. I will explain the absence when I hav more time and I also need to pm the mod before I divulge so that I avoid modkill. More later, but I thank my neighbor for the response. Also, I dont recall you tieing me to beck on day 1. That day went too fast imo. Also, saying "theres scum on the end of that wagon" and then voting the hammer is consistent play, so not sure about that part either. But ill post more when im at home late tonight or tomorrow.

[don_johnson]

All of my posts are "pro-town", depending on your definition. I have barely participated in this game so far. we just passed 200 posts. Thats not very long, especially to already be in day 2. Are you going to let me respond to xvart when I can, or are you going to continue to bash me while im posting from my phone?

[don_johnson]

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

i opened my pm late. i have a message out to mod that i need a response from before i explain further.

don didn't say anything pre game in the neighbor QT which I thought was... not damning evidence of him being scum but not scoring any town points, and I really started suspecting him as scum neighbor on his beck wagon support but no vote, when I tied him to Beck.

i don't recall you tieing me to beck, at all. i really wasn't paying much attention through day 1 and my support for the beck wagon was because "he had no sense of humor." in my experience, scum often lack a sense of humor when they are wagoned relentlessly. having not been paying too much attention, however, i wasn't ready to vote. regardless of scum or town, the beck wagon looked like it was going to move and movement produces content which is good for town. i didn't expect a lynch to go through so quick and i don't think any of the players who were not present can hold any of the responsibility for that. the wagon was bad.

I almost came out right there and claimed neighbor since don hadn't done anything at all except that scummy post but I thought better of it. Last night, don was absent until over halfway through night.

thats because i hadn't even realized a lynch went through. i was rather surprised.

My first post of the night was asking him who he thought was scum because he had provided no reads at all D1.

i hadn't been keeping up fast enough. like i said, i posted, next time i looked the lynch had gone through. i may have checked in once or twice between(can't recall), but i am in several games which have been requiring more attention and i didn't think a day 1 wagon would go so quick.

I was hoping to draw out something and see what he did at the beginning of the next day and then claim what I knew if it contradicted what he said during the night. I then sent a "you there?" type post and then followed up with more friendly banter post in case he was scum and relayed his information to his team and I got NKed without claiming him as my neighbor.

i just about claimed neighbor in my op, so setting you up in such a fashion would be silly.

My post was basically how I thought his crumb, although obvious, was clever and asked him if he was worried about scum picking up on it. On D1 I was thinking it was obvious and was curious why he wasn't so concerned with scum picking up on it.

i explained this in the qt saying " its better for neighbors to be out in the open"(paraphrased). neighbors are a tricky role because of the usual assumption that one is scum and one is town(which is a common argument for lynching one without aactual evidence.) by being open about it i feel like it actually gives town a better advantage.

He finally posted in the neighbor QT with how scum might use that knowledge to their benefit (??) but he believe it to be better play for neighbors to be more public than private (paraphrased). He also said he wasn't reading carefully during D1 so he was going to reread if he survived the night. This struck me as really odd since I saw him as no threat to being a NK. I asked him if he thought he was likely to be killed during the night. He responded that he hoped not, then said there had to be scum in the final few people on the wagon.

i made it a policy early in my career to not read at night. i spent several hours reading an extremely long game one time and woke up dead. even if you are scum, there is no "guarantee" that you will survive, so reading at night is a waste of time. and i did believe there was scum on the end of the wagon, and i still do. townies shouldn't be quicklynching a fellow like that.

Now that I had a weak set of suspects from him I was waiting to see who he voted for at the start of D2. He came out and immediately voted the hammerer for a very specific reason; so what I don't understand is why he didn't tell me that last night.

i didn't have a plan and didn't realize you were looking for anything more specific. the celebloki vote is a starting point imo. lots can happen during the day, but i thought a little pressure might help to start the day. again, saying "i believe there is scum on the tail end of the wagon" and voting the hammer is entirely consistent play.

The other thing that concerns me is that he so quickly claimed neighbor today when I put him in a very loose scum group pairing and he didn't do the same yesterday when I did the same thing.

i don't recall you doing that day 1. i don't remembver any of your posts from day 1. however, the fact that you would group me as scum with a townie(beck), is more of a towntell which now reinforces my town read of you(the other info being your last post which i see as pro-town. your arguments with me are justified and your approach was not over the top at all. scumxvart could easily have embellished a bit(and voted) to get a mislynch moving).

I have never played with don (to my recollection) but from this game I don't see him as a player who would place a breadcrumb like he did so I'm guessing, if he is scum, he was prompted to do so in the scum QT pre-game.

it would not behoove scum to breadcrumb neighbor as, like i mentioned, the most common argument i have seen to mislynch neighbors is that one

must

be scum, which is a fallacy. by breadcrumbing i set myself up to have the spotlight shown on me if xvart is killed and flips town. as towndj, i set the spotlight on myself to be town, if xvart flips scum. the benefit of the breadcrumb is more heavily town-favored as a scumxvart flip just about confirms towndj. does that make sense?

I didn't but out with this information because a lot of it is circumstantial and I didn't want to prematurely claim and was hoping I could draw out some more in subsequent nights.

i'd be happy to participate more in the qt. its something one has to approach with caution, however, because a scum neighbor will generally attempt to manipulate a town neighbor. it is in scums best interest to keep their neighbor alive and use them than it is to arouse suspicion from them and/or lynch/nk them early due to the aforementioned "one neighborscum/one neighbor town" fallacy.

don - can you show a game where you have breadcrumbed your role before?

i have breadcrumbed roles before, but i don't do it every time i have a role. it depends on the role. but no, i don't link. if my explanation for this breadcrumb is not sufficient, just let me know.

Okay, lets try it with different wording. Link me to a post where you scumhunt.

voicing support for the beck wagon without a vote helps stir the pot. i haven't had a chance at this point to read the full game, so you can expect a more solid "scumhunting" post to come. anyhow, if you are familiar with my playstyle you should know i don't scumhunt in any "traditional" styles.

[don_johnson]

If you are not going to defend the hammer then you cant fault people for voting you because of it. Calling my play "distancing" is a bit of a stretch seeing as how you quick hammered a claimed power role before I had a chance to contribute.

[don_johnson]

skins: Show me one post i have made that tells you, "Wow, this guy is scum.". The fact is that you can't link me to one.


^^ see how easy that is?

unvote

celbloks answer is adequate for now. for someone so seemingly eager to talk to me in the qt, xvart sure is taking his sweet time in responding to my response. didn't have a chance to catch up yet, but i will get to it asap.

kondi needs to respond.

[don_johnson]

Why? Bloks post was ok. Leaving my vote on accomplishes nothing. Xvart seemed pissed about my inability to communicate promptly, amd yet has been posting elsewhere on site without following up his initial post here. I would like to know where he and I are at. Skins is just being an ass asking questions he already knows the answers to and completely ignoring the fact that the quicklynch cut short any chance I had of contributing to day 1. so whats the issue?

[don_johnson]

To whose "legitimate" requests are you referring? Skins? I think I had what, 5 posts on day 1? I didnt quicklynch anyone and end the day early. His requests would be like me saying:

Hey bob, who do you think is scum?

And then saying...

[don_johnson]

Why didnt you answer? You must be scum...

[don_johnson]

See how silly that is.

[don_johnson]

Let me read the thread and post before you lynch me then.

Uh, claiming "neighbor" shouldnt be accompanied with "i dont know my neighbors alignment." Thats pary of the role. Because you dony know what a neighbor is doesnt mean I was trying to be sneaky.

If you want to lynch me because I wasnt around for the quicklynch then you guys are destined to fail. But whatever. Ill post when I have time.

[don_johnson]

ok. recieved info back from mod. will explain in detail after xvart answers one question. mod said i could discuss the issue without quoting and that he would neither confirm nor deny anything. so depending on the answer, i should be able to confirm xvart as town or scum regardless of todays outcome.

xvart: please look at your role pm carefully and tell me if there is anything "wrong" with it?


reread post incoming.

[don_johnson]

first thing that sticks out is the fact that the lynch occurred quickly. in vc #2 beck has one vote. #3 has 6 votes and $4 he's lynched. if that isn't a quicklynch, then i don't know what is.

beck 68 will reinforce why i'm not around much in this game. i have several games going at this time and i devote time to threads on an as-needed basis.

71: coolskins jumps the parama wagon to "get it going".

beck follows.

CooLskins and Beck just both double RVSed. There is a 100% chance at least one is scum.

skins bites and votes beck. here's the case:

1) wishywashy in vote stages. Votes for hasc, then all of a sudden votes for don.
2) hops on biggest wagon that already has 4 peple on it. Which is plenty big for an rvs wagon
3) His votes don't contribute to the game. Hasc had 2 votes on him when he unvoted to a wagon that had no votes.
4) piggy-backing with an apparently experienced (I full heatedly deny this ) player to gain town credit.
5) doesn't seem to understand the magnitude of his vote.

I argue that your wagon has produced valued information. It exposed that all beck wants is a lynch and to appear town.

this is page 3. 1 and 2 are the same behavior skins himself has exhibited. 3 is a viable point. 4 preys on becks noobiness. 5 is irrelevant.

beck 84 is actually ok.

snox hops wagon for ... ??

surye bandwagons cause... ??

dj offers support for wagon due to becks lack of humor sense. no vote as don sees the votes piling up quickly.

snox asks dj if no sense of humor is a scumtell? hasn't justified his own vote on the wagon.

xvart piles on a vote. no real reason other than "paramas reaction is town." that seems to be subsrcribing to fallacy "if parama is town, then beck is scum." its page 4

again, beck 93 is ok. someone should be unvoting by now.

If parama can support his percentage claim with evidence, than he may be on to something but to declare it 100% certainty is almost always an embelishment.

parama was obviously joking.

deselby 97 is misrep me thinks, or misunderstanding.

98 skins throws out dj suspicion which is consistent with todays follow-up. of note, don has not posted since his last comment and the wagon on beck grew extremely quick.

snox thinks don is scummy, but doesn't switch. not sure what to make of this. if snox thinks don is scummy, then why not move off the incredibly fast moving beck wagon to create some pressure? by not moving, he's coasting on a day 1 lynch and letting don off for his actions, which he claims are scummy. at this point, players should not know beck's alignment, but skins referred to becks wagon as "townie" and yet doesn't get off it. snox agrees and doesn't get off either.

parama 101 is sensible until the beck vote.

107 probably put the nail in becks coffin. by admitting he could be lynched, he certainly weakened his claim. i generally have more confidence if i am a power role. but beck is admittedly new to the site. ugh.

Parama wagon: Bob, kondi, xvart, Coolskins, beck

My wagon: Coolskins, Bob, surye, xvert, parama

xvart, bob, skins. hm.

kondi drops L-1 withouyt a thought.

Been reading and re-reading through this thread and it really got interesting towards the end. My reads of the first few pages is mostly just random chit chat but once the Parama wagon got going the game picked up.

so beck's intentions to pick up the pace with the parama wagon actually worked according to celeb.

celeb is "ready to hammer" yet is curious about the L-1 and L-2 votes, even though he had already made up his own mind to vote beck(until he saw he was at L-1). the fact he didn't hammer straight away may play in his favor.

Secondly, Beck's responce to the attack on him is very weak I wish I had time to dig into it now, but sadly I do not. I might not be able to post today (bub most likely will). I just want to say that Beck and Don are likely scum buds. The connection is obvious.

please explain that connection and why it has suddenly become retroactive(i.e. beck flipped town, but don is still scum.)

W.O.W.

why doesn't someone unvote a claimed OSV? the role is borderline confirmable, and if not, players shot can be directed and player can be lynched later when its safe. its also much more likely to be a fakeclaim from a sk than a mafia, so this lynch is headed in the wrong direction. anyone posting from here on out without at least speculation on that matter or an unvote is getting serious scumpoints.

are you kidding me? you guys suck.

xvart, bob, skins. hm.

waiting on xvart. you guys seriously suck. no reason AT ALL to lynch beck there.

[don_johnson]

Bob: I saw the unvote and appreciate it. Suryes flip somewhat justifies your action as well, but imo he shouldnt have been lynched regardless of his statements. In anycase, depending on xvarts answer you may have nothing to worry abouy today. What do you think of xvart and coolskins?

[don_johnson]

Look at your qt link. Anything strange?

[don_johnson]

when i received my pm i opened it, saw i was neighbors with xvart and then went to click on the link to the qt. as i scrolled over it, i notice it said it was a link to the scum qt. i immediately pm'd the mod to say "hey, am i scum? or if not, do you realize you sent me a link to the wrong qt.(paraphrased)" mod pm'd me back and said, "no, you are town and the qt is not a mistake, i just forgot to change the label." so i clicked on the link and day had already started. i ask if yours had the same mistake and you say no. but i'm not going to pm hunt you as i think its a bad idea, and if you are town it could end up in two mislynches. you seem to be looking at events objectively.

unvote, vote: coolskins

day 1 wagon is a tough one. snox is reading town today as well as xvart. parama wagon seems like a gamble. i'd like more input from him. in any case, i don't think the mod mistake is relevant at this point. i'm willing to accept my neighbor as town for now.

Not necessarily since scum control the night killing and if nobody picks it up. Like I said in the QT I might have only saw the breadcrumb because I knew we were neighbors; I'm generally terrible at picking up breadcrumbs. Did anyone else pick it up?

i don't think the crumb is all that obvious, however, if you were to flip neighbor, i think it would be much more clear. also, someone would have to claim neighbor once one flips, no? all i'm saying, is that the breadcrumb is more beneficial from town than it is from scum. but whatever. i think skins continual push against me before i've had a chance to even read the thread is a bit scummy, not to mention the fact that he had me paired with beck and beck has flipped town. i also think his initial case on beck is a bit of a stretch, and he later seems suspicious of the wagon, yet doesn't get off. in other news...

don - OSVs who refuse to have their shot directed by a majority vote when on the verge of being lynched are stupid or scum. Beck was unfortunately the former, but the lynch was still a good one IMO.

xvart - Celebloki may have been certain Beck was SK. Celebloki is not a horrible lynch candidate for today.

it is scums interest to lynch an sk early. so yeah, i can agree with that point, but i don't think we can condemn blok based on that at this point. after reading the thread, several of you could have halted that wagon but chose not to, and surye is confirmed, so yeah. i'd rather lynch skins, parama would be the wild card selection as he is a hard one to read. and no, the lynch was a horrible horrible lynch. beck claimed power and was lynched quick and early. not sweet at all. but whatever. who besides blok would you like to see swing?

[don_johnson]

i have to look at it closer, but i think i see your point about his earlier reaction to the skins vote. could easily be a chainsaw defense if i'm reading it right(only read an iso of deselby). would you consider joining the skins wagon? it seems the two are connected by your own evidence. i don't know if deselby himself has enough content to condemn him alone.

[don_johnson]

Traveling day today and family get together tomorrow. Ill review the zodiark case by sunday.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote hrez

[don_johnson]

Bob: hresz is going out of his way to distance himself from the wagon. I see only two reasons for him to do so. 1 he is scum and knows zod is town. 2 he is scum with zod and is planning on using the "why would I have defended my buddy so obviously?" Defense. Either way I see no town motivation for his actions.

Xvart: I am not going to pm hunt you. Exploring this issue further could lead to rampant speculation and the fallacy that "one of the neighbors must be scum" which, if you are town, will lead to two easy mislynches. I suggest we move forward with traditional scum hunting. If there is anything else in my response that you are unsatisfied with, please let me know.

[don_johnson]

I like how cooldog keeps saying "i think don is scum" but has completely failed to address any of dons recent posts.

[don_johnson]

des: i have explained it the best i can already. i'd rather cover it after the game. between my discussions with the mod and xvarts play i am writing it off as a mistake and i am not going to let it interfere with the game. if xvart is town, the speculation would be disastrous for town and take us away from traditional scumhunting. i'd like to avoid that at this point.

[don_johnson]

one at a time, bob.

[don_johnson]

@Don, what reactions? What scum hunting? I don't see it.
~CooLDoG

i have no ideas what this is referring to.

[don_johnson]

You guys need to explain yourselves. This cryptic "he's confirmed" stuff isnt gonna cut it.

I dont think zodiark is a given here. Hrez didnt like that wagon and he flipped town. Someeone should iso the jk for breadcrumbs. More later.

[don_johnson]

Parama: why is bob confirmed?

[don_johnson]

Yes. Well, now I am. All I can find is "bob is confirmed". I want to know why so I can be comfortable with your intentions. My first thought was masons, but I dont see that fitting well with town neoghbors. Im mot 100% on xvart town, but im close, so please explain.

[don_johnson]

Iso of blok makes me think he jailed kondi night one. Probably zodiark last night. Heavy zod suspicion would point to a defensive kill I guess. Zod needs to show up big or hang I will concur, but theres no need for a speed lynch.

[don_johnson]

Parama: I cant. You put it in the thread. Just explain yourself.

[don_johnson]

You shouldnt jave posted it then. I cant find anything in your iso. But whatever. I think antihero is a good lynch too.

[don_johnson]

Ill have time to give this a good look on tuesday morning.

[don_johnson]

Parama cleared you, bob. Hows that work? And just to play da, why again did you target zod if you hold the belief that scum wouldnt send him to make the kill?

[don_johnson]

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start. the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

[don_johnson]

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

not sure what to make of des placing someone at L-1 while trying to "wait" for replacements to post. parama claimed vt which means his lynch isn't an uber loss to town, so accelerating the counterwagon out of "fear" doesn't make sense at all. thanks des. way to tie yourself to parama.

bob: independent of your "track", how do you feel about parama and why?

[don_johnson]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

[don_johnson]

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions. if parama is your scumbuddy then your actions make perfect sense. the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama: i'm not scum, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost, the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him. the fact is, if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

[don_johnson]

bob: parama had just drawn his second vote of the day and was tied with blok for lead wagon when you came to his defense. it has nothing to do with saving yourself, it has to do with your inability to see the possible scum motivation for your actions. if you are town then thats fine, but you should still be able to see my point. parama never questions your defense of him. you don't hint at "tracker". i don't see that anywhere. you do subtly hint at having more info than the average bear, but tracker would not be any players first thought in that situation. however, your point about parama probably nking you if you were power is probably a good one, but it still doesn't clear the theory that you and he may be scum together. seriously, most of his early posts were quote walls with things like "wheeeee" written in between. no way do those profile as town. but whatever. zodiark seems to be getting the noose and doing very little to stop his own hanging, so lets get some imaginality and then proceed.

parama: ftr, xvart came after me for "barely using the qt" night one. he was mostly absent last night. so go figure. bright spot is that i brought up my suspicions of yours and bobs connections. if xvart was scum, he probably would have relayed that info to his team and had one of you nk'd. the fact that you are both alive scores him more town points. zodiark better flip scum.

[don_johnson]

Please compile a case so as I have something to respond to. "points from yesterday" doesnt give me much. Ill post more from home. I still think my neighbor is town, and odds put parama as town, but I cant post a lot from my phone. So yeah.

[don_johnson]

Now lets catch-up in the correct account.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

Okay yeah, you are scum. Never made a case on bob, never really contributed to the game.

no, i didn't make a case on bob. i don't always make a case. nothing scummy about that. i clearly explain here that i am confused by bob's and parama's actions. i am also agreeing with posting by xvart. please see 474, 480, 491.

So right now we have all the smart people voting Zod, Zod trying to get bobsnox lynched, one of his scumbuddies in the neighbors assisting him, and the other neighbor being stupid. And havingfitz is making a fail and wasting his vote.
When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy. Should be easy enough. Seeing the wagon now,

no way in hell both neighbors are town

.

Perfect assessment of the situation.

bolded is the start of "one neighbor

must

be scum fallacy." zod was not doing much of anything. xvart had the lead in the case against bob. given the odd relationship between parama and bob, i didn't see zod's position as scummy.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

[goodposting="parama"]

Bwahahaha, dj's definitely the scum neighbor. "I think bobsnox is scum, and I think Parama is scum by association, so let me lynch the player who I feel is scum by association instead of the one who I feel is scum for actual reasons."
At least the Zodiark wagon's the leading wagon again

[/goodposting]
This is exactly what I'm thinking by reading his posts. He thinks he can get you lynch

over

bob right now, so he is going to push that.

uh no. try reading:

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

in fact(snipped for brevity)you even say:

I would sorta agree with this, if you actually quoted one of parama's posts in your case.

what kind of things do you want me to quote? sorry, but giant quote walls are not something i try to do on a regular basis. if there is something you would like me to find and show you, tell me what that is and i will do it.

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions.

if

parama is your

scumbuddy

then

your actions make perfect sense.

the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama:

[wifom="OMG WIFOM"] i'm not scum[/wifom]

, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost,

the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him.

the fact is,

if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum

, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

I'm not going to say anything about this post. I'm just not going to. Look at the bolded stuffs. My eyes bleed.

first bolded part. yes, bob's actions make perfect sense if parama is his scumbuddy. you don't agree with that? scumtracker clearing his buddy? the two of them acting like they can clear each other pre-claim? sprry, but it read to me like they were both clearing each other and leaving the "role claim" up in the air. once bob claimed tracker, parama doesn't bat an eye. no "well that doesn't completely clear me, then", which is what a townie should admit. no, "oh, i thought you were cop." nothing.

second bolded, no wifom, that was in response to parama accusing me of putting words in his mouth. i was explaining why i used the wording i did. you see, anyone can bold portions of a post and then say, "just read the bolded portions," and make a case. what you need to do, and what good townies do, is read the entire post. what you are doing is taking my statements out of context. if you read the rest of that paragraph you see exactly why i make the statement "i am not scum." that statement is only wifom when used in the context of "hey i made a case against you, defend yourself." and then you say "i'm not scum." thats wifom. using my knowledge of my alignment to explain why i said something, or why i think someone is misinterpreting something is not wifom.

Try this: Defend every single post you have made about bob, zodiark, and parama.

Also defend the bolded contridiction saying that you are now willing to hammer after nothing changed.

And then get lynched.

and that brings me to the third bolded part. for that i bolded a portion of your post. you claim "nothing changed. except:

1) you reposted your case, which i read and stated was not bad.

2)

. zodiark seems to be getting the noose and doing very little to stop his own hanging, so lets get some imaginality and then proceed."

zodiark was not defending himself.

so yeah, nothing changed.[/sarcasm]

Oh well.

Vote:Zodiark13

On second thoughts imag, maybe get a move on just in case someone does hammer....

This is the best tandem post I have seen in a while. I really loled.

des is probably my top suspect today. his vote at L-1 was terrible. i'll dissect it in another post.

vote: deselby

you can look forward to future dj posts such as "the parama/xvart connection and why i think they're town", and "lynching neighbors is a bad idea."

[don_johnson]

why does a case need quotes? i think we have a playstyle difference in that you seem to require quotes as supporting evidence. i don't, but like i said, if there is something specific that i mentioned that you would like me to back up with quotes and such, just let me know. i don't see how "cases" have much to do with anything. if you scroll through some of my town games you will find that i often find scum and get them lynched without ever making a "case". not everyone is as adept at posting as you would like, and i think experience is the only way one can learn that fact about mafia. in any case, i have a few more posts i want to throw up here today. so, if you are town, be wary of the quicklynch. i am already at L-2. i will be producing a "case" on deselby, though i can't guarantee my suspicions won't shift when i'm done. i would like to iso him as well as reread this thread. i would also like to present why i think xvart and parama share an alignment(right now, i think its town.) i am not sure what to make of you as your hydra has been conflicted in its own reads. so yeah. look forward to our exchange, but please pay attention so i get my chance to be heard.

[don_johnson]

the xvart/parama connection and why i think they are town

parama is town due to statistical improbability of him being scum, imo. if parama is scum, then that would mean that bob successfully tracked scum two different scum, two nights in a row, both of whom were vanilla and neither of whom tried to kill anyone. there is a small window where parama can be scum, but if he is, he has most likely already won the game, so i have to go by numbers, and statistic improbability is generally reliable.

xvart is town based on his level headed posting. even though he made a case against bob(confirmed town), the case had merit and pointed out several inconsistencies in bobs play. also, and here's the kicker, bob came after me early which is a bad play for scum. the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy is a common case, and if xvart was scum it would not be in his best interest to have me flip town. secondly, i detailed my suspicions of parama/bob in the qt at night. the way i initially read their play was that i thought they might be claiming "masons", which made no sense with neighbors in the game. x and i briefly discussed this, but when i brought to his attention that they were confirming each other he said he didn't even notice. xvartscum should have immediately relayed that to the scum qt which should have led to a bob/parama nk, because the logical explanation is that one of them was cop. but they both lived through the night.

therefore, the only way i can see xvart scum is with paramascum. xvart would have brought his knowledge to the qt, and parama would have said "no, he has me confirmed somehow, lets see if we can use him. seeing as how they then lynched scum with parama infull force, i highly doubt this scenario.

therefore i believe them both to be town.

why lynching neighbors is a bad idea

When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy.

with a strong town player believing there is scum in the neighborhood, a 1-2 lynch can lose us the game. i'd rather we lynch outside the hood for scum first. if we find scum today, then i have no issue with being lynched tomorrow, however, the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy should not be applied in this game because i am pretty sure xvart is not scum. lynching me today will place town in a very difficult position.

lynchpool should be fitz, imag, deselby in no particular order yet. i believe both scum(assuming statistic regularity) are in that pool of three.

i'm going to work on each of these three and see what i find. des is tops so far because of his vote yesterday which i will dissect in my next post.

[don_johnson]

xvart is town based on his level headed posting. even though he made a case against bob(confirmed town), the case had merit and pointed out several inconsistencies in bobs play. also, and here's the kicker,

bob came after me early which is a bad play for scum.

the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy is a common case, and if xvart was scum it would not be in his best interest to have me flip town.

I'm confused by the bolded (bob isn't scum). Did you mean xvart instead of bob?

yup. xvart came after me early.

with a strong town player believing there is scum in the neighborhood, a 1-2 lynch can lose us the game. i'd rather we lynch outside the hood for scum first.

if we find scum today, then i have no issue with being lynched tomorrow

, however, the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy should not be applied in this game because i am pretty sure xvart is not scum. lynching me today will place town in a very difficult position.

If mislynching both neighbours loses us the game as things stand, it still loses us the game even if we lynch scum today first and then do a 1-2 mislynch tomorrow and the following day. As such, I don't see why you are saying the bolded.

read the sentence after the bolded. i could still very well end up getting lynched today, but if i can help find scum i can perhaps convince others

not

to lynch me tomorrow either. if i help find scum and people still want me lynched, then i'd rather go out that way. it will at least leave town in a better position. xvart has time to contribute today.

are you going to post reads? i see you have five posts. my day is starting here so i'm not sure what else i'll get done this morning, but i am going to do a full reread with flips in mind and see where i'm at.

unvote

in the meantime.

[don_johnson]

parama: both neighbors addressed why they were off the wagon yesterday. perhaps the other players off the wagon should be analyzed as i don't believe they ever addressed those issues(i think, would have to reread.) xvart made good points against bob and i clearly took the stand on my feelings towards yours and bobs connection. its not like either of us

avoided

the wagon. we addressed it, didn't we?

[don_johnson]

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

can you explain this one a bit more? i'm not really following what you're saying.

[don_johnson]

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

no. you don't get me right at all. your argument conveniently leaves out the fact that there was another flip involved here. when i made my argument about parama possibly being scum independent of bob's actions, zodiark had not flipped. with zodiark flipping scum

and

bobsnox flipping town, parama moves into the more likely town category. you see, you missed an entire 50% of my reasoning.

So that means that you lied.

spin city my brother. no lie here.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the

only

reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

again. 50% of my reasoning is ignored. zod wasn't confirmed scum at the time.

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

untruth. i was defending zod because i thought he was not so eloquent town getting a raw deal. in my neck of the woods(where scum players are good) they don't get taken down by things like blatant contradictions. i see that type of behavior way more often from poorly posting town. same with lies, etc. but whatever.

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

hows about you build one of those "cases" you are always asking for. you know, with quotes and such. imaginality and des deserve a look too. did you notice deselby acting like a white knight yesterday when there was no real danger?

[don_johnson]

ignore the "why don't you make a case" comment. now that i reread your post i see that you actually did make a little case there. good job. still, i'd like more input from other slots today. even if we hit scum today, there is most likely a third running around and they could be very well hidden at this point.

[don_johnson]

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

ad hom

.

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

not sure what you mean here. i already explained my thoughts. i never made a case on bob other than agreeing with points xvart made,

and

pointing out that i found the parama/bob interaction wierd. when was i an "avid" pusher of bobscum? thats

misrep

.

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

zod was ineffectively defending himself, and towards the end he just seemed to be lurking. i already referenced several posts xvart made. its funny how you quote my posts, but don't seem to be reading them. maybe you would prefer i make a quote wall out of posts 474, 480, 491? i thought if i gave you the post numbers then you could go and read the posts instead of flooding the thread with giant walls of repetitive text.

omission

.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post...
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

oh. i see. you want me to quote the thread to point out the bob/parama connection? well. ok. i thought it was obvious, but since you can't wrasp your head around it, here are the posts:

Parama - I think Coolskins and deselby are buddies. Do you see why? I'll explain but I want tonsee if it jumps out to anyome else like it did to me.

Parama's hrezs vote threw me off but I don't think he's scum.

He's not today's lynch

.

Again,

Parama is not today's lynch

.

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I.

SHHHH! I told you, I warned you about stares man! They're staring at us! Why did you let them in on our scumbuddy secret?

don if I gave you any more hints it'd be anti-town posting. just accept that bob is town and move on with your life.

so yeah. i thought everyone noticed this. apparently not.

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

i don't get what you are saying here. i have been pointing out what i have found scummy. sometimes posts aren't scummy. sometimesd its the players voting pattern. sometimes its one simple move they make that seems like it has scum motivation. again: if you want quotes, you will need to be specific. then i can get you quotes. if you don't know what you're looking for, i can't help you.

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)

Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?[/quote]

bob was not "my most powerful scum read".

misrep

. my other scum read(parama) was not based off of bob being scum.

misrep

. zodiark was never "one of my most powerful town reads."

misrep

. see what you did there? you completely ignored the post you quoted and then made up shit to fit your case. please quote a post that explains the bob/parama connection where my parama scum read is based off of bobscum. hint: you can't find it. i speculated on the idea of them being a scumpair, but you are misrepping the suspicion.

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

never had bob/parama at 100%. if you find a quote where i used the term 100%, then i will self vote.

misrep

. reads didn't go "out the window." they moved along a perfectly logical line of thought. going from thinking "zod might be town" to "zod is not standing up for himself

at all

and so might be scum," actually makes sense.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

the vote isn't doing anything. i have much more i want to discuss. i still have to respond to des' latest posting i think.

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the only reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part) well.

not only is this not articulated well, but it is an entire misrep of my position, packed with the ommission of the effects of the zodiark flip. well done.

vote: coolskins

[don_johnson]

des: in short, i'm saying your vote post reads as though you are "white knighting" bob and parama. they were the "wagons building elsehwere" that you used as justification to put zod to L-1. what i am saying is that bob/parama were in no real danger of being lynched. you just made it seem that way with the way you chose your words. both wagons hads some support, but the support was not interchangeable, meaning that neither wagon had enough support to carry a lynch. the zod wagon, however, was seeming inevitable at that point imo. so yeah, a perfect time to bus, and if parama is town, it was a great chance for you to "save" two townies and lynch scum. but whatever, you need to post a bit more and i need to reread a bit more. let me know if i'm not making sense.

[don_johnson]

LEMME ADD TO THAT THERE WALL OF TEXT WAR OLOLOLOLOL
IT'S GODDAMN ISO TIME. THIS POST IS DJ-ISO.

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

"Excuse me while I pay lip service to a mislynch wagon without actually bringing up any points or voting. I can just claim this post was a joke sort of thing and it's all good, but it will likely get more people voting Beck"

i was not part of the quick lynch on a town power role. my comment came well before the scumminess occurred.

vote: celebloki

Stupid hammer was stupid.

Hmm... I remember another play who was all "lynch Celebloki his hammer was bad." Zodiark, I think his name was.
Hmm... and Celebloki flipped town... and Zodiark flipped scum... HMMM.

his hammer was bad. he hammered a claimed power role early. this also fits with why i was sympathetic to the zodiark "contradiction".

what waffle? i wasn't even around when the lynch was carried through. i never voted beck, and i never backed off on my stance that the wagon was good(cause beck was quicklynched.) my stance can hardly be described as a waffle. i demand you choose better verbage.

Oh, so you really weren't making that comment in jest. Well, I'm glad you didn't jump on a wagon that you thought was good.

see, i can do it to. silly parama, the beck wagon was good when i said it was good. later, it turned ugly. not my fault. last i heard, not mislynching townies is a town tell.

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

"Ah hell, I'm screwed... BUT WAIT! WHAT IF I CLAIM?"
Though in all honestly this is more of a slight towntell than anything because the mafia already knew there was a neighborhood if one of the neighbors were scum, and scum outing their neighbor buddy would basically give town a confirmed townie if the scum got lynched anyways. Though I think this point was brought up before and I probably just missed it <_<

you did.

All of my posts are "pro-town", depending on your definition. I have barely participated in this game so far. we just passed 200 posts. Thats not very long, especially to already be in day 2. Are you going to let me respond to xvart when I can, or are you going to continue to bash me while im posting from my phone?

"Excuse me while I intentionally dodge the question with clever wordplay."

i didn't dodge the question. the question was stupid. you even said so yourself.

i don't recall you tieing me to beck, at all. i really wasn't paying much attention through day 1 and my support for the beck wagon was because "he had no sense of humor." in my experience, scum often lack a sense of humor when they are wagoned relentlessly. having not been paying too much attention, however, i wasn't ready to vote. regardless of scum or town, the beck wagon looked like it was going to move and movement produces content which is good for town. i didn't expect a lynch to go through so quick and i don't think any of the players who were not present can hold any of the responsibility for that. the wagon was bad.

1. "lack of a sense of humor" isn't a scumtell
2. link me some games?
3. so you knew enough to know that there was a wagon on Beck, and that he lacked a sense of humor, one of your "scumtells", yet you "weren't paying enough attention" to justify voting him? BS.

1. we disagree.
2. no. that's mildly retarded. if you want to sift through my games, feel free. i don't live in the past.
3. no bs. but i guess all i can do is say what i say. you are obviously tunneled at this point(or like, a week ago.) and yet, you're still alive even though i pointed out the blatant connection between you and bob early on. and bob lived the night after that as well. hm. if you are town, you should start using your brain.

If you are not going to defend the hammer then

you cant fault people for voting you because of it

. Calling my play "distancing" is a bit of a stretch seeing as how you quick hammered a claimed power role before I had a chance to contribute.

WARNING WARNING I SPY A SOFT DEFENSE OF ZODIARK HERE
since they were the only two voting Celebloki at the time.

?? thats a bit of a stretch. if you characterize my post as a "soft defense of zod", then you also have to characterize blok's post as the same. he couldn't defend the hammer because it was terrible.

unvote

celbloks answer is adequate for now. for someone so seemingly eager to talk to me in the qt, xvart sure is taking his sweet time in responding to my response. didn't have a chance to catch up yet, but i will get to it asap.

Literally NOTHING changed between this post and DJ's last - Celebloki still didn't try to defend his hammer, which is the reason DJ called him out in the first place.

except of course his answer. which i described as "adequate for now". so yeah, other than his response, nothing else changed.

Frankly, Celebloki's response IS pro-town

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOFLOLOLOFLOLFOLOLFOFLFOFLFOFLFLFOL!!!!

, but for another reason - it's not that he's doesn't want to defend his hammer, but that he's willing to admit that he can't defend it.

herp derp, hence the unvote by dj and dj saying "anser is adequate". seriously, did you edit this post before you hit submit?

Scum make up the excuse because if they don't make an excuse then they think they'll be lynched for it. I'm not sure if DJ picked up on this or not, but "his post was adequate" implies that Cele met the criteria DJ was looking for, even though it's obvious that Cele intentionally refused to meet this criteria.

say what now? you just said "nothing changed". then you say "except when blok responded with a pro-town response." but "dj unvoted even though nothing changed". "except that blok laid a protown response." so lets get this straight:

dj voted.
blok responded with a protown post.
dj unvoted.

kthxbye.

Why? Bloks post was ok. Leaving my vote on accomplishes nothing.

And this post is basically the same thing. Why was his post OK? Because DJ knows Celebloki is town and doesn't need an excuse beyond that? Hmmph.

or because blok's post was protown, and dj pointed that out by unvoting and saying the post was "adequate".

To whose "legitimate" requests are you referring? Skins? I think I had what, 5 posts on day 1? I didnt quicklynch anyone and end the day early.

This is the goddamn nail in the coffin IMO. "Well EXCUSE MEEEE, PRINCESS, but

I

didn't vote on the quicklynch wagon, even though I

DID

pay lip service to it, calling it a good wagon, making me at least partly responsible for the lynch even if I didn't take part in it."

uh. no. not responsible AT FUCKING ALL. I was nowhere near this thread while you idiots were lynching a claimed fucking power role. so sorry. my "beck wagon is good" came before the claim. lynching a claimed town power role without a counterclaim on day one is dumb. everyone who participated in the lynch after the claim is dumb. are we clear?

when i received my pm i opened it, saw i was neighbors with xvart and then went to click on the link to the qt. as i scrolled over it, i notice it said it was a link to the scum qt. i immediately pm'd the mod to say "hey, am i scum? or if not, do you realize you sent me a link to the wrong qt.(paraphrased)" mod pm'd me back and said, "no, you are town and the qt is not a mistake, i just forgot to change the label." so i clicked on the link and day had already started. i ask if yours had the same mistake and you say no. but i'm not going to pm hunt you as i think its a bad idea, and if you are town it could end up in two mislynches. you seem to be looking at events objectively.

Eh... technically this means there's at least one difference between the two role PMs besides the rolename... but the other part says that "well why the hell would DJ bring this up if he was scum and knew xvart wouldn't have the same PM as him?"
But meh, mod WIFOM stuff and I dunno. I'm actually unsure what to make of this :/ This is turning out to be a more confusing read than I expected.

read better.

if xvart is town, the speculation would be disastrous for town and take us away from traditional scumhunting. i'd like to avoid that at this point.

Also can be read as "If xvart is town, and we lynch him, then I'm screwed because it basically confirms me as scum since our role PM are different to at least some extent." But AGAIN, I also don't know why don would've brought this up as scum, unless he was trying to get xvart lynched and that plan backfired on him or something. I'm again really confused. I don't like this post at all - it reads as scum to me - but the basis of this whole series of shenanigans is a complete nulltell to me :/

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

snox is reading town today as well as xvart.

Okay, so DJ, I want a complete list of everything that made you change your mind on bobsnox. IN QUOTES-FROM-YOUR-ISO-ONLY form. Because I don't see it - D2, you say "bobsnox town" and then D3 you're "bobsnox isn't confirmed and Parama's defending him also bobsnox hasn't been playing pro-town" and it's more the "bobsnox hasn't been playing pro-town" part that irks me because you said the opposite on the previous day but "xvart said it and I know he's town so now I should change my mind too" seems like the scum train of thought DJ was having here.

i'd have to work on that. can't now. not sure what the issue is with changing a read. just because i voted bob doesn't mean i would have lynched him(especially since i specifically stated that i wouldn't) and my suspicion was laid out in my posts. you guys were acting like masons. that confused me. when you were both alive the next day, that made no sense to me. scum generally kill players who confirm other players and both you and bob were confirming each other. and if you recall, i believe bob helped lynch a claimed power role on day 1, so yeah, he wasn't exactly playing "pro-town". this is also pre-zodiark flip.

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

Sorry, but no. In ISO #42, pretty much everything was contingent on me being scum with bobsnox, and the things that were "scummy" were all association tells, again linked to bobsnox. Before that post, you had said NOTHING about me in your ISO - and yes, I went and ctrl+f'ed to check. So, APPARENTLY, I'm linked to bobsnox and scum on his scumflip, except I'm also the better lynch because "well bobsnox claimed tracker and confirmed parama as VT, so let's lynch the VT first."

lynching the vt first is the correct move. however, i clearly(or thought that i clearly) explained that your acceptance of bob confirming you is what made me think you scummier. so no, you being scum was not "dependent" on bob scum at all. if i wasn't clear about that then i apologize, but i thought thats what i said here:

the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is

scummier

than bob's play.

I think I said it pretty well already, but an additional point of note: DJ never explicitly says he's town here, he just makes it "assumed" and then goes on to defend his neighbor, completely missing the point of my argument - I said "DJ is the scum neighbor" and DJ responds with "no, I don't think xvart is scum."

uh, no. you said:

Seeing the wagon now, no way in hell both neighbors are town.

and

When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy.

this implies a scum neighbor. though you were more suspicious of me all along, you have still been wording your posts in a way that supports the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy. but whatever.

skins: thanks for the repost, the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him. the fact is, if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

pfffhahahaha "so yeah I could be wrong about the bobsnox/parama thing, and also since Zod looks like he's going to be lynched, I think it's time for some hardcore backpedaling."

see it how you want. i didn't hammer him. and i certainly had the oppurtunity. the pro-town move was to push for more discussion. which is why i am suspicious of des. he came in with the L-1 and the latter "someone might hammer, better hurry up", when he could have just unvoted. neither you nor bob were getting lynched. also, if zod was getting lynched and i knew he would flip scum, why would i say "bob/parama" might be town? why not continue to push bob/parama/zod? as scum, i could have not nk'd bob and cast even more doubt as to his claim. but i guess that takes thinking...

sup here's your case
also "lol I claimed to have legitimate things that say parama is scum outside of his relation to bobsnox, but lemme throw those away because of odds." Tell me that's a town mindset, and I will whack you with a totem pole.

i haven't thrown them away, but if you want to argue that you could still be scum, then by all means. at some point in these games, if you want to win as town, you need to start accepting things. things like "if parama is scum then he's already won." i'm willing to do that because if i don't, the game remains too confusing. check my sig. i would say that i have an above average win-loss record as town. odds are in scums favor. but i'm knocking on the door of a .500 average. me using odds to supplement my reads is just common sense. even though image dropped the real stats(which prove you just as likely to be scum as anyone in that situation), i as a player am left with a choice: solidify reads or not. i chose to solidify mine on you, even though your posts read terrible imo. as an example, please see above where you give evidence of pro-town maveuvres dj makes, and yet call dj scum for them.

So don. why are you voting out of your 3-man lynchpool that contains all the scum?

his recent posts are terrible, and both heads of the hydra are agreeing on something i already proved they were wrong about. hydras are a confusing read, and earlier, the one head was making sense. now they are both posting from the crapper. if you want to lynch someone from my "pool", then by all means vote them and i may join. but i'm certainly not going to lynch myself.

Despite the weird neighbor shenanigans, pretty much everything in don's posting points to him being scum.

except the neighbor shenanigans, the fact don nailed two possible power roles in the thread and discussed it in the qt and yet neither of the players turned up nk'd, even though the town protective role had been lynched. except the fact that skins is posting from his bunghole and misrepping, ad homming, and completely ignoring perfectly good answers to questions. except for the points you made in this post that show i'm probably town, except for the fact that i didn't quicklynch a claimed town power role on day 1, etc. well, no i think that about covers it. but whatever.

[don_johnson]

btw,

unvote

i want to look at the skins/zod connection a bit before a hammer. something about this day is bothering me.

fitz: i have a town read on xvart for a couple reasons which i already stated. remember, we have a qt. i agree that his VCA looks scummy, but he also made good points about bob so i can't really fault him on that one. is there a chance he is scum? certainly. but if he was scum, why would he have not nk'd one of bob/parama after i basically fed him my thoughts that they were wonfirming each other? only was i see xvart scum is if parama is scum telling him not to kill bob. if xvart/parama are scum, then that means imag/des/skins/fitz are all town. i don't think i can swallow that one. also, the suspicion i've drawn means an xvart town flip serves me up on a silver platter in lylo. i don't think its the right play, even if there was a case(i've only skimmed yours. i will address it later if need be.) i think xvart is town. what do you think about imag and des?

[don_johnson]

I have spent alot of time defending myself. if you want to silence my voice and end the day then theres not much I can do. I would like to.reread and post. I want to also go back and look at the zod/skins connection(which seems to be a good part of imags case). But whatever. I hav some coffee on and my home comp booting up. Give me a few hours at least.

[don_johnson]

hm. rereading the zod lynch and fitz comes off as doing anything

but

considering zodiarkscum.

skins is too aggressive on zod for it to be a bus. same with parama. if they are bussing, then they're scumgold.

@havignfitz, why are you voting parama over zodiark? You have barely mentioned zodiark as yet.

when des posted this, here is what he had previously stated in regards to zod:

Zodiark is scummy, and now my no.1 suspect. I am not voting him yet however as I don't want to put him at L-1 so early in the day, with 2 replacements yet to post. I am wary that we may allow a scum or 2 to lurk through 3 entire days....

Zodiark's contradiction was scummy, and his defence of it, while he makes the occasional ok point, is, overall, not that convincing, in particular his slowness to recognise the contradiciton as scummy. Is zodiark more scummy than bobs? Not much in it IMO, but bobs by a nose.

And then there is Hrezs. His total contribution is:

votes parama fo a silly reason, without even really reading the thread.
makes passable point about kondi, then votes bob for a stupid reason (regarding his beck vote)
the "i find it hilarious..." post
halfhearted defence against parama, ends up very close to accusing parama of being scum, but doesn't vote for him.
doesn't "understand" the contradiciton im zodiarks post, and believes zodiark is town.

I didn't re-post hrezs posts, cos this is already relly long, and besides, there are only 11 Hrezs posts to read through, should anyone want to do so.

So to answer your original question bobs, I think you are pretty scummy, but I am not going to keep my vote on you when there is a better candidate.

unvote: bobsnox
vote: hrez

yeah, i have to go with skins town and deselby scum. of course, sitting at L-1 with des threatening a hammer i may just be signing my death warrant. but i think des avoided zod when he could, then came in with this on the zod lynch:

However, with the wagon building elsewhere in spite of zodiark's scumminess:

vote: zodiark. THIS IS L-1

what "wagons"? bob and parama? neither of those lynches was happening, and neither was anywhere near a quicklynch. then:

i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day.

Imaginality, no need to rush your post, be thorough. I very much doubt anyone will hammer before you post (within reason of course).

On second thoughts imag, maybe get a move on just in case someone does hammer....

zod had self hammered.

i don't know. fitz/imag/des/xvart has to be the pool. i'll start isos soon. outside chance of parama scum, but like i said, if he's scum then we've already lost.

sorry skins.

[don_johnson]

i have some things to take care of today, but as long as i'm alive i will continue to post content. iso's will come next. not sure what else i have to do to convince people i am town, but regardless, i would appreciate the chance to post more before i'm lynched if thats what we choose.

[don_johnson]

You are not paying attention. This whole parama is town because of bobs flip is ignoring everything I hav said. Parama was scummier than bob because he never questioned why or how bob was clearing him. Never. This town is doomed. Maybe my 180 is because I am being reasonable. Both you and parama point out towntells and then say "he must be scum". It makes no sense.

[don_johnson]

Des: please list your concerns in an easy to read format. Not sure which ones I didnt address, especially considering that the post you quoted only contained one question(the other being rhetorical).

Skins, can you do the same. I.e. write 1) first question 2) second question etc.

I may be better able to answer that way. Thanks. These wall posts are getting out of control and seem to be distracting as both of you seem to be missing my responses.

Parama: same to you if you have any questions you want answered.

[don_johnson]

Time ran out for me. I work the next 3 days and so will check in at night, but iso has to wait. Anytime you guys want to line up the questions, feel free.

[don_johnson]

Thanks des. On my phone now. Ill answer the rest tomorrow night, but quickly, if you reread 599 skins is not in the lynch pool. Id feel more comfortable if you unvoted for a while. I will be busy the next few days and I would like to be sure and get some final thoughts into the thread if I am to be lynched.

[don_johnson]

@don- fair enough, my concerns are here:

1) You said you "solidified" your read (of town parama) based on a statistical point you concede is wrong, and on his posting which you think is scummy (see post 596). How is this valid? Also, you mention in 599 that there is only an "outside chance of parama scum" despite the above points. This is a serious contradiction.

statistics are one thing. fact is, i work in the medical field. people beat the odds all the time. image pointed out that the "stats" involved in my math were not matched up with my interpretation of the data, but that doesn't change the fact that i think it would be highly unlikely that bobsnox tracked two vanilla scum in a row. bob also consistently stated his own town read on parama. parama's playstyle may be the culprit in why i find his posting "scummy", but his VCA is not entirely scummy. he has a night 1 clear. if he is scum, then he is vanilla scum. i just find it unlikely that is the case. there is a chance, but like i said before, i solidify my reads at times because if i don't then the game becomes too muddy. for instance, if i am lynched and flip town, my reads will carry more weight, no? so i think its important to do as such. i can't really argue the statistics because image is correct. but that is when you put stats in a vacuum, and that is not the case here. paramas votes are not all over the place. he seems to be targeting specific players in a coherent manner. my dislike of his posting and style is not enough to override my belief that i don't think it likely that bob targeted two vanilla scum in a row.

2) "lynching neighbours is a bad idea" (538).The first, second and last sentence in your argument obviously only apply IF you are both town, so pointless. The rest is saying "ignore the scum in the neighbourhood fallacy". Ok, but IF there is scum in the hood, we should lynch, and you seem to propose an equally fallacious "no scum in hood" position. I just really disliked this post, and can only see sum motivation for posting it - ie to make town reluctant to lynch a neighbour (very probably you at this opoint) in any circumstance. I guess I don't have a direct question for you here, other than "why am I wrong about it?". If you read your post again, do you stand by it, or do you want to add/retract anything?

i am more likely to be lynched today than xvart. i know i am town. my worry is that scum will then have an easy wagon to push in what would be lylo tomorrow. i.e. the one neighbor must be scum fallacy. seeing as how xvarts VCA is rather poor, i don't think its a good idea to lynch a neighbor today. if we lynch xvart and he flips town, then i am an easy mislynch tomorrow based on the fallacy. i have a town read on xvart, therefore i think it is a bad idea to lynch from the neighborhood today. you are not wrong about anything. my post clearly assumes two town neighbors. if one neighbor is scum, then it is xvart. if you think i or xvart are scum, then i would say that it is safer to try and lynch who you think our partners are instead. this late in the game players start to take sides. by hunting who you think we would be paired with, that gives you more options tomorrow imo. its the same premise as not lynching a claimed town power role. could the player still be scum? yes. but the safer route would be to hunt a possible partner before railroading yourself into a possible quick and easy loss.

3)In 599 you say you think coolskins is town twice, and then at the end of the post you include him in your lynch pool. A clear contradiction, can you explain this?

this one was modified. xvart is only in the pool because i can't be sure. if it comes down to "lynch don or xvart", i would most certainly lynch x.

4) See my post 609. I don't know what you mean here, re the self hammer.

it harks back to my original reason for suspecting you. both you and i posted late in the day promoting discussion. you could have unvoted(like you did today) but you didn't. by the time you had posted about the possibility of a quickhammer, the hammer had already occurred. that post looked like you'd been ninja'd by the self hammer, but the timestamps put your post and zod's an hour apart. did you see zod's self vote at the time of your post? if so, why didn't you unvote if you didn't think it was the hammer? that area of the game to me read(coupled with my white knight theory) you were bussing and were just fine with the day ending early.

imag: my only issue is that if skins is scum, he bussed zodiark rather hard. can you repost the section of your case that deals with that issue? the case on fitz is solid, but why hasn't fitz scum hammered me when he had the chance? your posting definitely moves you more town imo. i would lynch fitz over skins today. deselby's civility has me leaning town on him atm. parama and skins seem content to coast on the dj case. it would be nice to see them branch out. don't they find it odd that xvart has a town read on me? i don't know.

vote: fitz

now we have 3 competing wagons.

[don_johnson]

In other wordz, your going to use that giant AtE as an excuse to avoid everything else in this thread.

[don_johnson]

des: you are just arguing my opinion. do you think parama is town? if so, why do you have a hard time believing that i agree?

also, your post does not read like a joke. if the timestamps were'nt so far apart it would read like you were ninja'd. you say it was a joke. ok. next time put sarcasm tags or a smilie in there and it will be more easily understood.

and no. xvart is not in the pool to be lynched. he is in the pool of "who i think may be scum"" at the time of that post. i haven't voted x and i have repeatedly stated that i would not. not sure how "including" him in that group is anything but common sense. we're neighbors, not masons.

you're not listening to anything i am saying.

Bold implies you hold the belief independent of your thoughts of parama. Thus you are "putting stats in a vacuum".
Another point about the "stats" thing, you haven't considered the likelihood of any tracker targeting the players bobs targeted. Zodiark was scummy and parama was a prominent player, so IMO it is more likely these two would be targetted by a tracker anyway.

no. my stats are not in a vacuum. but yes, if you actually look at statistics in a purely mathematical sense then my rationale does not fly. but thats just it. its my opinion. my opinion is that in this game, the likelihood of bob tracking two vanilla scum in a row is pretty improbable. if you disagree, then vote for parama.

BZZT, you're arguing that "no sense of a humor" is a scumtell, so you're saying you saw something scummy in him when you made your comment.

actually. this is

your

argument. what i said was "beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor." looked at in context, it was a statemnt i made at a point in the game when beck was crumbling under the pressure of what seemed to be a mixture of joke votes and early pressure votes. have you never seen scum act that way? oh wait... there you are:

Beck (7) - CooLskins, xvart, Parama, kondi2424, Beck, Surye, Celebloki

so which is worse? carrying through the lynch or chiming in during a period in the game when the pressure seemed to be producing results, but not voting? i find it hard to believe that you really think

not lynching

a power role is scummy. but whatever. at the point in the game where my post was made, the post was perfectly acceptable. becks alignment didn't change, right? he was town when i called him out on his poor reactions, and he was town when you QUICK LYNCHED HIM AFTER HE CLAIMED A POWER ROLE. oh, was that all caps? sorry.

Town can claim power roles
Mafia can claim power roles
Your point?
Also what does this have to do with Zod's contradiction?

do you think blok's hammer was good? zod's contradiction mirrored my own conflicted status in regards to blok's hammer. it seemed to me that the tail end of a QUICK LYNCH ON A POWER ROLE might be a good place to start hunting scum. obviously it wasn't, but i think it makes common sense to think that way. after blok explained himself, i unvoted.

So the wagon was good, then it became bad, even though Beck's alignment didn't change during the timespan.
And again you're missing the point. You paid lip service to the wagon, which helped carry it forward to at least some degree. Don't act like you're completely innocent just because you didn't vote.

i didn't know beck's alignment. but yes, i will always be on the "quicklynching a claimed power role on day 1 is a bad idea" train. do you really think my comment helped carry the wagon? more so than , let's say, oh i don't know, YOUR FUCKING VOTE? REALLY?

1. thanks for the elaboration
2. thank for not even attempting to prove your own argument
3. um yes I am tunneling. tunneling on scum is how you get them lynched.

1. your welcome.
2. dj doesn't link. never has.
3. tunneling on town is how you get them lynched. see, i can switch words around to.

I never said I disagreed with the argument that Cele's post reeked town. I'm pointing out that you didn't even say what you felt was town about his post - you just said "herp derp it's adequate."

and i unvoted. sorry, but i don't always write novels. i thought the "unvote" would do some of the explaining.

dj didn't say a word about how the post was pro-town, hence the point. again. I'm a goddamn broken record.

so what did you think i meant when i said "post is adequate", followed by an unvote? serious question.

YOU WEREN'T VOTING, BUT YOU ADDED FUEL TO THE FIRE. A LACK OF VOTE DOESN'T MAKE YOU INNOCENT.
BROKEN RECORDS INC. PROUDLY PRESENTS: THIS. FREAKING. POST.

AND YOU WERE VOTING. LYNCHING A CLAIMED TOWN POWER ROLE. ONE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SEMI-CONFIRMABLE. W.T.F. see, i can do caps and periods and stuff to.

la dee do dah

dum diddly doo dah

the bolded
but but
you DO know what the
entire point of
voting
is


right?

voting is the only weapon of the vanilla town. it is used for many reasons. pressure, reactions, to leave a trail of evidence that can later be analyzed in the event of your flip, etc. did my vote stay on bob? for how long? did i later advocate his lynch or was i against it? see, these other questions are pertinent.

which means we have a wagon on town.
3 competing wagons isn't a good thing y'know.

competing wagons are good as they often polarize the player base into more solid groupings. for instance, at this point, people can probably safely assume that if a is scum, then they can only be scum with b or c, but not with d, etc. and yes. we have a wagon on town. i guarantee you that.

[don_johnson]

I have two theories. Ill post them tomorrow night or tuesday. Too much work and not enough play...

[don_johnson]

I think its a little early for votes regardless. That certainly points to skins being obvscum. But lets hear from des. X: ill respond tonite. Parama, pretty sure youre town at this point.

[don_johnson]

Hm. I deserved better. Parama, I wasthe only one calling you out on your claim acceptance, read des and xvart correctly. But whatevz. I wouldnt have lynched parama most likely, with skins tunneling likr a jackass town was destined to lose. Gg.

[don_johnson]

dead qt is the most active i've seen. i enjoyed the challenge of being neighbors and i am satisfied to have read my neighbor correctly. you can't win 'em all, but players in this game should learn from it. day 1 pr lynches are always bad. only other thing beck could have been was sk. scum rarely, if ever, claim vig(let alone one-shot). sorry beck, had i been able to be more active i would have done everything i could have to stop that lynch.