Open 315 - Quack Mafia (Game Over)

[izakthegoomba]

Ouch. Anyway, hi and stuff.

VOTE: Uncle Pain

Pain is evil. Scum is evil. 1+1=2.

My countdown clock is superior!

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, shall I start?

[izakthegoomba]

I protected Sathoris.

He's not an obvious choice for protection, but he's not a newbie either. And I like the username.

[izakthegoomba]

Glowball, why did you not include me in that? As I said, I protected Sathoris.

Of course I was a little worried, but it's just a 1/3 chance of being a quack, and even I am a quack there's a chance a doc would stop me. Protection was the best move.

Did anyone else protect Sathoris?

[izakthegoomba]

This thread is lurking.

FoS: Open 315

I would have thought the question was relevant whether it was a random choice or not...

[izakthegoomba]

however, I would still like you to answer why you chose who you chose instead of arguing the point down and around it-- it's a simple request and I hope you oblige.

Was that aimed at me? If so, I kind of already said. Sathoris wasn't a big, obvious choice for protection

or

killing, but wasn't a newb either, and (as town) would likely be more help than some others. As I said already, of course there is a chance of me being a quack, but it's unlikely, and even if I am, there is a chance a real doctor would block my kill. So the benefits outweighed the risks.

[izakthegoomba]

Presumably, he meant that the mafia's target was protected. (PEdit: yeah, he just posted)

Those three that haven't claimed their targets haven't even posted, have they?

From what we know, I would say that at least one of the three that didn't claim are quacks, plus at least one of IceGuy, Glowball, DonJosh, and Empking. Though I could be wrong, we'll have to wait for full protection info.

PEdit: good point. glowball, WTF are you playing at?

[izakthegoomba]

Is that so bad, really? Come on Emp, a random protect on N1 hardly warrants a vote. And he's right to say that others did it too. I really dislike that vote. You look to me like scum trying to start an easy D1 wagon. So,

FoS: Empking

Why do you attack just one of them? Why not at least FoS or HoS the others?

Also,

FoS: glowball

, for that stuff Sathoris said. Seriously, your questioning makes no sense at all.

[izakthegoomba]

You have no justification to vote for Don. There is nothing wrong with a random choice at this point. Whatever the reasoning behind a night action, it can give us valuable information - as is made obvious by the mass action-claim we are doing.

[izakthegoomba]

That post (PEdit: Emp's post) is awful. First off, my vote was placed inside RVS. There's no particular reason for me to take it off - in fact, since Uncle Pain has neglected to show his face, I would be rather uninclined to move my vote if it wasn't for you.

Then, why the heck would you FoS Sathoris over that? He wasn't even really presuming Don is town, he was just making a comment about your vote.

Lastly, you make great use of CrapLogic™ with the third comment. Scum are just as able to come up with a decent fake as town are to decide who to protect.

This whole post is a testament to idiocy.

UNVOTE: Uncle Pain

VOTE: Empking

Ironically, you kind of get your way about my vote.

PEdit: Sath said some of that in the above

[izakthegoomba]

The first bit is meaningless, since it's a crap reason for voting anyway.

The second bit is just plain wrong. We need everyone to claim their protect (cough, cough) so that we can try to figure out who the scum are. Of course, the scum will fake something, but just because someone makes a slight assumption in order to ask a question or figure something out, it doesn't mean they are convinced that their assumption is accurate. In fact, in this case, I highly doubt Sath suspects Don any less than the rest of us.

[izakthegoomba]

glowball, I don't have any read on Sathoris. It's quite possible that he is scum - it's just as likely as anyone else being scum. But he argument against him is truly awful. Its perfectly fine to protect him when he's done nothing wrong.

And it's not an "OMGUS vote on his behalf" - I believe that Empking is the scummiest player here. Do you deny that his reasoning behind the vote is total crap?

[izakthegoomba]

Scum will have thought about what their fake will be just as much as docs will have thought about who to protect. So yes, I suppose I do. Claiming a random pick does indeed show less thought, but it doesn't really mean anything. Going into it any further results in WIFOM.

[izakthegoomba]

How is it lying nonsense? Scum could easily have taken some time to deliberate over their fake protect-claim. Emp, you look scummier with every post.

[izakthegoomba]

A slight change in wording makes me scum? WTF? You are saying that a change of ONE WORD makes me scum? This is unbelievable.

And again, WTF? I literally mean pretty much every post of yours makes you look scummier.

[izakthegoomba]

Emp, that's a blatant misrep. Before that post, he had two other posts which were considerably more useful. He clearly added that last one as an afterthought.

And jilynne, we need everyone's protects first.

While I'm on that, we need more content from popsofctown, jilynne, Uncle Pain, and forest_air. The last two two haven't even posted. We can't really advance without everyone here.

[izakthegoomba]

Don't weasel out of it. It's a big misrep. They might not have been the most content-filled posts ever, but they were not fluff. So you have no reason to say he's posting fluff when you are ignoring the previous two posts.

[izakthegoomba]

The post you quoted did not add to the discussion, no. But you were still misrepping

him

quite significantly. He had

obviously

just added that post as an afterthought, after two other posts. So even if that post is fluff, he is not generally posting fluff. Making your point meaningless.

Do you deny that the post you quoted was clearly an afterthought?

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, so he's not as big a contributor as some of us. But if you're going to have a go at people for that, take a look at Uncle Pain. Or forest_air. Or popsofctown. Or jilynne. All of them have been less use than Don. So misrep or no misrep, you are again doing this horribly wrong.

And it's hardly justifiable to call it fluff when it was just a bit tagged onto the end, is it?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, I get your point. I know this will have helped Emp get reads, but it's not exactly helped him in any other way, has it? But I notice you didn't comment on the fact that it is NOT an OMGUS vote. And surely you can, at the very least, see why I have a scum read on Emp, even if you don't agree with me?

And yeah, we kinda failed. But how were we to know to protect the person below us if we have no experience of this statagy? I hadn't even heard of it. But (again) we cannot properly analyse the night without full information.

[izakthegoomba]

It doesn't matter. Emp, you are completely missing the point. While Don may have made one fluff post, which was an afterthought once he had made two other posts, there are several people who have contributed far less. I'd say four of them. So seriously, drop it, unless you're going to attack all of them as well.

[izakthegoomba]

And people, please don't just sit there letting me, Emp, and occasionally Don and glowball slug it out. Try participating in the game.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok jilynne, if you think scum are fencesitting and not contributing, let's start with you. Let's take a look at your ISO.

#30 - I protected Uncle Pain
#36 - makes a fuss over a bolded "s", says something is a scumtell when it's not
#75 - asks someone else to do all the work
#95 - the mafia is lurking, pressure them!

... ... ...

And that's it. Do you see any content in there? I certainly don't.

So, jilynne, how about we question you.

How does the possibility of being a quack just "slip your mind"? They are an integral part of this setup. They make up 1/4 of the players, and 1/3 of the town. There's even a reminder in the PM that three docs are actually quacks. So how do you completely overlook them?

How the heck is doing RVS a scumtell? It is a common way - probably the most common way - to get the game moving.

20 hours later, you post again... And give no content. Worse than that, you ask someone else to do your work for you. If you want to know who the docs are, FFS work it out yourself. Why do that?

That last post is

very

hypocritical. You aren't exactly the most active or useful, are you? And why do you have stuff you can't share with us? Looks very scummy.

At this point I might have voted for you. As it happens, I still think Emp is a bit scummier. But unless you start posting something useful, you're next in line.

FoS: jilynne

FYI, I would be attacking Uncle Pain, popsofctown, and forest_air if they had bothered posting (more than once for pops).

[izakthegoomba]

For my uses as much as yours, my read list. It could still change dramatically, it's still early.

DonJosh - semi-town
Sathoris - leaning town
IceGuy - null
glowball - null
Uncle Pain - leaning scum due to activity
PopsofCtown - leaning scum due to activity
forest_air - leaning scum due to activity
jilynne1991 - semi-scum
Empking - scum

Don is town IMO more because I believe Empking is scum, and I find it hard to believe that this senseless bashing of Don is an attempt at bussing. Sath is more of a general vibe I get from his posts in general. The others are obvious, or already explained.

[izakthegoomba]

FYI, I would be attacking Uncle Pain, popsofctown, and forest_air if they had bothered posting (more than once for pops).

And before you jump on that, the only reason I haven't is because we just don't have the info to do it with.

[izakthegoomba]

I posted it to see if you would nitpick about it and avoid my real points, which you did. Give me a response to the posts before the "fluff"

Oshit, missed that. No. Not buying that. Emp, I still read you as scum, but I agree that Don is trying to find a reason after doing it.

UNVOTE: Empking

For now.

Also, updated reads:

Sathoris - leaning town
IceGuy - null
glowball - null
Uncle Pain - leaning scum due to activity
PopsofCtown - leaning scum due to activity
forest_air - leaning scum due to activity
jilynne1991 - semi-scum
Empking - semi-scum
DonJosh - semi-scum

The only big thing that gave me a town read on Don was that Emp is scummy and Emp had no good points on Don, so it didn't look like bussing. Now there is a real point against him, the read vanishes.

I want to see his reaction before I put a vote down (on anyone) again.

[izakthegoomba]

@Uncle Pain so Emp is always like this? He was exactly like this in the one other game I played with him, but he was scum, which enhanced my scum read of him now. I'm going to look at his meta, because if you're right, his play doesn't mean anything.

[izakthegoomba]

Don has a point. Even though I'm not buying this trap idea, Emp was avoiding the questions.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh, and IceGuy, why is Sathoris scum? I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy.

[izakthegoomba]

No, I genuinely did miss that Don was trying to claim it was a trap. Sathoris mentioning it bought it to my attention.

I unvoted Emp because there was actually some validity to his attacks on Don. I still dislike his play but, as tou would know if you'd payed attention to my last few posts, I reckon it's just usual Emp stuff and not to be taken seriously.

@Ice ok.

[izakthegoomba]

Well, my suspicion of Empking was based on how he played in general, backed up by the fact that the other time I saw him he played like that as scum. But I looked into it and I agree, it does seem to be his playstyle more than anything else.

@glow ok, I may not have said it directly. But I thought my meaning was pretty clear.

jilynne, you really need to make yourself useful. You've posted six times, with zero content. You say you forgot you could be a quack, when it was in big bold letters. I think the only explanation is that you are scum who neglected to read the role PMs in the OP. You say the scum are fencesitting, when that word describes your own actions pretty well. You are scum by your own definition. You post a whole load of fluff, in a feeble attempt to look active. And you totally ignored my questioning in this post.

VOTE: jilynne1991

[izakthegoomba]

Uh... LittleGrey and zMuffinMan were docs, right?

[izakthegoomba]

Well, I know Don did stupid stuff, but I see his posts coming from a towny mindset.

jilynne, on the other hand, looks scummy on paper

and

by mindset.

[izakthegoomba]

Unless a doctor protected the quack's target too, of course.

But what's a weak cop?

[izakthegoomba]

Just like a weak doc. Thought so. But quacks don't die, whoever they target...

[izakthegoomba]

Well, I don't think I have anything to add in regard to the protections. You guys have said it all. I agree that Sath and I should protect forest, but perhaps we should have someone else too. I mean, it's possible that we are both quacks or I'm quack and he's scum, if Muffin and LittleGrey protected each of us, right?

And forest should "protect" jilynne if survives today, yes.

jilynne, I'm still waiting for you to do something useful.

[izakthegoomba]

This game... Isn't quite like others I've played. It's the first time I've really been in something based around analysis.

[izakthegoomba]

Hallelujah. jilynne is actually saying something.

Except it's wrong. We need, I'd say, three protects on forest_air to keep our quack alive. We'll probably want some protection on anyone likely to be a quack too. And of course, forest needs to protect a scummy player (I.e. You).

[izakthegoomba]

Yes, I guess we'll never know for sure because of the N0 deaths. But it's unlikely one of us got protected. I guess you're probably right about the Don lynch, it tells us the most.

[izakthegoomba]

The quack can be a valuable tool to help find the scum. Obviously, due to incomplete info on the N0 protects, and the fact that the scums NK can cause problems, no method is foolproof, but I think this is the best we can do:

Well nobody but Forest should protect Jylinne.
If DonJ flips quack then Empking can also protect Forest along with Sath and Izak (There's atleast one confirmed doc in there because we all can't be quacks.)
If DonJ flips scum then Empking can protect Forest without fear of being a quack. (Sath and Izak will also protect Forest in case Empking is scum. (Odds on me and izak being a quack and Empking being scum in one scenario are very low)
Uncle and Pops should both protect Empking (or someone,

as long as they both protect the same person

) because we don't know if or who's the quack in there.
I don't think Iceguy/Glowball have working protects but they should also both protect the same person for the same reason as Uncle and Pops.
Jyl can protect anyone she wants as she can't self protect anyway to screw up the quack 'investigation'.

This should ensure no accidental quack deaths and if it does we can learn a great deal from it and Forest's 'investigation' went through anyway.

So, I will be protecting forest tonight. One particular bit:

(Odds on me and izak being a quack and Empking being scum in one scenario are very low)

Well, looking from the perspective of anyone other than us, the odds on you being scum or quack are 6/10. Same for me. The chance of Emp being scum (assuming that if the previous condition is fulfilled, the most likely situation is that one of us is scum, the other quack) is about 2/10. So the chance of all three happening is about 9/125. Yes, the odds are very low. Even lower from either of our perspectives, if you're not scum.

[izakthegoomba]

Hmm... I guess you're right. I know I'm town, so your strategy helps FMPOV even more.

[izakthegoomba]

Pops has a point (Uncle could be shot too!), but I can't see a better way right now.

@Emp first, how would we be putting forest at risk? Second, even if he died, wouldn't we still gain good info?

@Sath I agree, jilynne isn't our lynch for today. Can't remember if I unvoted earlier (PFP so can't check easily), so

UNVOTE: jilynne1991

She's scummy, but forest or replacement can quack her. Don is the most informative lynch.

VOTE: DonJosh

@glowball come on, let's hear this proposition of yours.

[izakthegoomba]

We're still a few votes off of a lynch, aren't we?

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah I guess so but it's unlikely. But we WOULD still get info from everything, right?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, that figures. But please stop callin me itszak. My name is izakthegoomba, or just izak.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, that's fine too.

[izakthegoomba]

Thank god for that.

[izakthegoomba]

Yep, unless someone comes out with something super-useful I'll go with those two. What if Don is doc though? It's possible, right?

[izakthegoomba]

@Mod As i said before, my countdown clock is superior!

Ooh, forgot it was only six to lynch.

@Player I made my clock, and my clock is fine. Stop badgering me.

[izakthegoomba]

Dammit pops I was just trying to come up with something useful. But thanks... I think...

@Mod

meh.

[izakthegoomba]

Agreed, a single person not following the plan could lose us the game.

[izakthegoomba]

Well glowball, if you're plan is better than pops' one I'm happy to hear it. And again, what was this mysterious proposition?

[izakthegoomba]

we've basicly agreed on a lynch

Indicates you have no issue with today's lynch.

As far as I can tell we've already got one confirmed scum in Jylinne. Any town role would've spoken up but she's apparently given up. Tomorrow could really narrow down

the other two

.

Bolded suggests you're counting Don as town.

Scumslip?!?

[izakthegoomba]

I'm not trying to discredit you, but the sudden big contradiction grabbed my attention.

But if Don and jilynne are scum, then there's only one more. Hence why it looks like a scumslip.

[izakthegoomba]

@UP that reminds me.

jilynne, FFS answer my #96. Since I did it, you've posted just three more times. Still no content. You are my biggest scumread by far. What I see here is that you know the plan tonight will out you as scum, and you've stopped bothering. In

any other

game I would be pushing my hardest to get you lynched right now. The only reason I'm not is because of Pops' plan for the night.

[izakthegoomba]

Is that any different to the last one?

Confirm vote: DonJosh

Much as I would like to see jilynne lynched, I know it's bad for our info when she will be confirmed by D2. And I figure that info is everything in Quack Mafia.

I can't help but feel this is a bit tilted towards a town win, much like Dethy.

[izakthegoomba]

I presume you meant L-2 in your #255, Pops?

Apokalyptika, just make sure you read this. You're protecting jilynne1991 no matter what Don flips, in case you hadn't seen it.

So with that, I'm ready for someone to hammer.

[izakthegoomba]

Well glow, that whole case against Sathoris exaggerates all the little pieces throughout, giving us the impression you want us to have. A scummy trait in general, trying to mislead us. I don't deny Sath has done some bad stuff, but it's not as bad as you would have us believe.

And I'm not sure I quite understand your scumread on me? Essentially, I'm scum for not coming out with a wallpost about the setup? I'll remind you that this

is

my first analysis-centered game.

[izakthegoomba]

What chainsaw defence? I can't see a chainsaw defence.

jilynne, what you suggested is kind of obvious. Everyone is expected to make it known who they think is scum. But nonetheless, I'll answer. I think DonJosh is leaning scum, but the best lynch due to the information gained. Because we are lynching to get information as well as to catch scum, your idea is sort of rubbish.

And I think you were referring to DonJosh there?

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, I know what it is, I just wasn't sure what she was referring to.

But I'm not really going at you... I don't read you as town, but you're not my biggest scum read either.

[izakthegoomba]

If jilynne is town, she will top the list of players-I-really-don't-want-to-be-teamed-with.

@glow/Apok:

...the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell.

Sath (obviously) isn't confirmed scum, making this supposed chainsaw defense even weaker.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah I know you linked it, I was just drawing everyone's attention to that particular bit. Of course it's just his opinion but as you say,

you

quoted it.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, let's let Don get a word or two in. I'm pretty certain we're going to lynch him anyway, but his word could prove valuable.

[izakthegoomba]

God, the last thing we need is someone flaking now.

[izakthegoomba]

God, you had me worried for a moment there.

I say we give Don one day, then someone hammers.

[izakthegoomba]

DonJosh's lynch is the most informative one. We established that ages ago.

[izakthegoomba]

glowball, if you have a plan that will give us more information than pops' one, I'm more than willing to hear it.

[izakthegoomba]

Damnit Don, if you're gonna self hammer you could at least do something useful first. And I'm pretty sure #306 isn't allowed either.

[izakthegoomba]

So yeah everyone go with pops' latest plan. See most of you in the morning.

[izakthegoomba]

Yep, obvscum just got... um... obvscummier?

VOTE: jilynne1991

Apok > jill
jill > goomba
empking > Sathoris
Sathoris > popsofctown
goomba > uncle pain
popsofctown > Apok
uncle pain > goomba
glowball > Apok
iceguy > Sathoris

Assuming everyone went by this:

Well, the fact that jilynne survived a quacking means she's pretty much confirmed scum.

Uncle Pain survived, so I'm pretty sure that makes me a doc.

I also survived, Uncle's doc too, unless he's scum.

IceGuy can't be a quack, otherwise Sath would have died from Emp's protection.

Sathoris also can't be a quack.

EITHER at least one of glowball and pops is a doc, OR they are both scum. So basically, if one of them flips scum, the other one is doc or scum. One flipping doc means nothing, apart from narrowing down the options. One flipping quack confirms the other as a doc.

I guess Emp must have been the NK then. Or somebody ditched the plan, and all of what I said is invalid.

I think that covers it. That's just analysis of N1 though, we'll need to look at it with regard to N0.

As I said in a PM to the mod, I will be V/LA until next Thursday or Friday.

[izakthegoomba]

Quick post here due to limited access.

Glow, WTF? I have no clue why you think that's scummy.

jilynne, you are confirmed scum. STFU. Nobody believes a word you say.

And pops, why should I have been the NK?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, back from my V/LA. I'm going to read over what I missed. Expect a post later tonight, I won't have ime right now. But just one thing, Sathoris:

WHY are you so certain me, glow, and jil are the scumteam? Fair enough, jil is confirmed. But I can't see any good reason for you to have picked out me and glow so adamantly. To revert to regular mafia strategy here, I find this extreme tunnel vision VERY scummy. I have no trouble believing that you are scum, trying to shield the rest of your team after jil is lynched.

HoS: Sathoris

I would vote for you if this setup wasn't so analysis-orientated.

[izakthegoomba]

Well from my PoV, Sath is biggest scumread/likely scum (apart from jilynne, of course), so I'm with glow that Apok should quack Sath. I suggest:

Code: Select all

IceGuy        → Apokalyptika
glowball      → izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba → glowball
Sathoris      → Uncle Pain
Uncle Pain    → popsofctown
popsofctown   → IceGuy
Apokalyptika  → Sathoris

Aside from the fact that FMPoV as ProbDoc it is much better because I live through the night, it will also quite probably confirm Sathoris as scum, whilst giving us all the info the plan this is based on would.

[izakthegoomba]

Because of course, Sathoris, Uncle's plans are written on golden parchment, blessed in holy water and bought down from heaven by angels.

Looks like scum logic to me, perhaps subtle buddying.

[izakthegoomba]

Yes, he seems to be a bit scared of my plan. Only reinforces my view of him as scum.


Does anyone other than Sathoris have a problem with my plan? Can anyone really deny that he is the best quacking target?

[izakthegoomba]

You do not know if Uncle is a quack. I imagine that your supposed certainty is a scum tactic to try to persuade us that your PoV is that of a doc.

[izakthegoomba]

No... I would be probscum from

your

PoV, if you were a doctor. However, since I am not scum, you are confscum from

my

PoV. There's no point arguing about it; we both know that you are scum, you will do everything you can to frame me, but your quacking will reveal the truth.

[izakthegoomba]

Do you have any reason not to want to protect him?

[izakthegoomba]

Well, so do I. That's not the point. I would much rather go with my plan, but we have to go with the plan we agree on.

[izakthegoomba]

Cracking under the pressure much?

Uh... how?

I haven't done anything to frame you.

What, apart from calling me ConfScum?

I don't care that much about being quacked, as long as we're not quacking two townies so we lose the game.

You're actually suggesting that we quack you?

Uncle --> Sath
Apok --> Izak
Iceguy --> Apok
Sath --> Iceguy
Pops --> Uncle
Izak --> Glowball
Glowball --> Pops

Looking further at that plan, you have me quacked by Apok, and yourself potentially quacked by Uncle. You know we will quack you tonight, and are trying to get me quacked as well, because you being ConfScum would make me ConfDoc.

[izakthegoomba]

Scum saying a townie is scum is framing.

@glow so if from your PoV either me or Sathoris is scum, who would you rather quack?

[izakthegoomba]

IceGuy        → Apokalyptika
glowball      → Sathoris
izakthegoomba → glowball
Sathoris      → Uncle Pain
Uncle Pain    → popsofctown
popsofctown   → IceGuy
Apokalyptika  → izakthegoomba

Well I'm no fan of this since it sees me dead tonight, but pretty much every plan you lot have come up with has me quacked. I must ask, though; why me? Why not Sathoris? I know glow is likely quack so this quite possibly quacks him too, but Apok is the only ConfQuack, so...?

I'll go with it if given no better alternative, though.

[izakthegoomba]

jilynne, for the last time, you are ConfScum.

Fine, #404 it is then. Not sure if I unvoted or not so,

VOTE: jilynne1991

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

[izakthegoomba]

I see no problem with that.

I think jilynne is at L-2 now, so somebody quicklynch her.

Let's do this.

[izakthegoomba]

Code: Select all

IceGuy        → Apokalyptika
glowball      → Sathoris
izakthegoomba → glowball
Sathoris      → Uncle Pain
Uncle Pain    → popsofctown
popsofctown   → IceGuy
Apokalyptika  → izakthegoomba

[izakthegoomba]

Uncle already hammered.

FFS stop posting! I tried to put the plan at the end.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh. At least that means I'm still alive. I

will be on V/LA until 31st (sorry)

, so I'll try to figure this out while I'm away.

@Mod if you can tell us, why does this error cause quack actions to be nullified?

Speaking further on the issue would be too revealing, apologies.

[izakthegoomba]

Back from my V/LA.

I loathed this game with a purple passion. Not because of the mod, or his error. Not because of the players, or even my own play. Because of the setup. I've wanted to draw scum right since I joined the site, but when I finally do, the game is broken towards town. So I will not play in a restarted game, whatever role I might draw. This setup needs fixing.

[/rant]

glow, this game sucked, but you did a good job. IMO your bussing was spot on.