Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[Seacore]

first confirmation up for grabs

Sold to the orange spiky creature from pluto

/confirm

[Seacore]

Bob, if you could be assured that you would win one of the auctions, which one would you choose?

[Seacore]

MS, if you could be assured to win two of the auctions simultaneously, which would you pursue?

[Seacore]

Actually, MS, I asked which two you would like. Which two do you think work best in combination?

[Seacore]

I like Cop and Last Will. If I could guarantee getting two of them at the same time, I'd go that. Then I wouldn't use the Cop ability for the first couple of days. The combination of that and last will ensures that Cop is being used at end game, where it's stronger. Unless it lands in the hands of scum, which is always the risk.

Cop and Doc is not a good combination in the same person. If they get shot we lose strong PRs.

[Seacore]

Last will is great. Mini themes go for an average of 5/6 days. A x3 ability is basically an every night power for half the players.

And <3 Magua for his no proven random rule, I always put this in my games.

[Seacore]

Yeah, me asking questions to better understand the roles, that's so scummy. If I was scum, I'd probably just be discussing the roles with my buddies in QT.

Speaking of which, while scum will have more cash, there's likely only 3 of them. So lets assume 9v3 (allowing for a 3rd party of some kind). They'd have to have x3 the money we have, which is possible, but they'd have to go crazy with it.
I agree that somebody should throw down a 99 bid on the NK, just to make them bid more.

Also, while I like the already proposed questions for the Set up Knowledge, the one that I want everybody to ask is "Are there more than two different win conditions amongst the PMs?" Then we can fuck around with the money questions.

[Seacore]

Ghostlin & Bob
No, that's perfectly fine. That's basically like us getting two lynches instead of there being 1 lynch and 1 scum kill. Sure we could be wrong, but we could be wrong about the lynch too.

Also, if scum get the doc and block the NK, a) we've stopped the scum from getting a NK and b) we've set up a likely lynch for tomorrow. Yes, scum could block it even if it's a town hit, but that's fine, they have to use up a doc power, we lynch within 24 hours of the next day starting and BAM, even if it's a mislynch we all get crap tonnes of money and the cycle starts all over again.

I'm liking this.

I would like to nominate Red Coyote to bid $99 for the NK. If he has already bid on something I'd like him to nominate (and recommend Reg)

[Seacore]

Actually I just ran through a bunch of problems in my head.

It works fine for Day 1, but then the inconsistent amount of money going around and the inability to know who has how much makes it all but impossible to track.

Still, it's totally worth doing Day 1.

[Seacore]

Apologies for the triple post, but you'd all best get used to it.

NK isn't the only ability that should be claimed

Night Kill
Governor
Investigation Immunity
Extra Vote
Vote Nullifier

these should all be claimed, as they are stronger in the hands of an unknown scum than in the hands of an unknown town.
The rest, should stay hush hush.

Totally open for discussion.

[Seacore]

Extra Vote and Vote Nullifier are not that great. Town will always be in the majority (otherwise we've already lost) therefore open and transparent lynching is one of our greatest weapons.
If scum want to waste their NKs on town with those abilities, that's awesome, it'll leave our cops and docs free to do their thing.

[Seacore]

Also, people to claim those abilities will help us know who has what money.

Governor goes for $80? Then a town should finish the day on $19. But then that person claims the next day to buy something with $60... hang on.. etc

It's not foolproof, but it's information for us that doesn't help the scum.

[Seacore]

If vote nullifier reaches end game, town is boned.

[Seacore]

Due to the fact that there is a sample PM, claiming cash will not out scum. It may out special town roles though, so no.

[Seacore]

Hehe, that makes Cop + Last Will even more awesome.

[Seacore]

I'm assuming robbing from the marketplace is not affecting the bids, otherwise we'd have an update?

Vote malpascp

At first I thought this post was too heavy handed to be scum. But then I remembered I hadn't voted yet and this seems like a good place to start.
"nominations is mafia stuff"
Nominations? Like how I just nominated you for a lynch? What would have been better, me saying "hey, somebody should totally win that Night Kill" and then left it up for people to sort out themselves?
Or maybe you'd prefer a bidding war between 2 or 3 town members, costing them $1 each time. Personally I'd prefer a $99 bid and then just wait for the scum to trump it.

Iceguy, did you even read which powers I was referring to by who should claim? Cop and Doc weren't on the list. Only ones that are stronger in the hands of scum.

[Seacore]

Ah, you're talking about claiming on bidding, I'm talking about claiming outcome. Slight but important difference.
The problem is, we don't want the scum to know who has won Cop or Doc.
There's no problem with nobody bidding, because we can see that.
Everybody increasing their bids slowly and competing with each other is a risk. That's why I suggest that people make single large bids, instead of competing.

I'm going to try something risky.
I'm the guy who has bid $41 dollars on the Set Up info.
I think I'm the man for the job. I've written complex set ups before and I think I'll get us some useful information. My first question will be about win conditions, so even scum will want to keep me alive for N1 because that's interesting info for them too. After that, I'll likely be trying to narrow down questions about the scum, which means they might want to start aiming at me.
I would like nobody else to compete with my bid.

[Seacore]

Yep, so that when you bid $40 as your max, guess which one of us wins?

[Seacore]

Those are my precise thoughts

[Seacore]

/agree with #103

I claimed set up info because I thought it was a small enough power to be an interesting test run.

[Seacore]

IceGuy, you get that my bid is published, right? Magua posts tables of them...

[Seacore]

a) how would scum know what other people would bid any more than town?
b) bidding non 0/5 numbers is a great way to just get over people's heads.

Remember the price is right? "I think that the vacuum cleaner is worth $400" "I think it's worth $401", "Fuck you, buddy"

[Seacore]

I'll be V/LA this weekend.

[Seacore]

Howdy, just checking in to confirm I won the set up questions. I'll be reviewing and posting soonish.

[Seacore]

He could've bid $50 as his max. Someone else bids $40 as their max, so that would make his current (winning) bid $41. Like on ebay.

True, but from his statements I believed he had bid exactly $41.

Seacore, can you confirm?

Willing to hammer, particularly for the boldest portion. For the record, I was trying to make it look like I'd bid exactly 41 but I'd bid much more.

[Seacore]

unvote. Vote wlc

That was a terrible post, with no claim, designed only to prolong the Day.

[Seacore]

Because town had already decided to give me the ability, so only scum would benefit from the answer to your question.

[Seacore]

Okay, now that I'm not on my phone I can elaborate a little more.

I'm happy with WLC's lynch (and thusly hammered) for a few reasons
1) I think he's scum
2) If he's not, he's struggling with the game concepts to the point that he's a liability.
3) The combination of these two reasons suggests that he'd be the eventual lynch 10 days from now, so a lynch now just gives us more money.

After I hammered he didn't even bother to thoroughly check if he was actually lynched. If I was town and somebody said they'd hammered me, I would triple count the votes before assuming I was safe and going to sleep for the night. And when I saw that I was hammered, since I've barely made a case on anybody, i'd post some reads.

But instead there were three posts.
1 - Hey guys, if you're going to lynch me, wait a bit and lets talk for longer. By the way, he's a non-informative comment about tomorrow's auction list.
2 - I thought I was at L-2, (which was wrong) but then you voted for me, so I should assume I'm L-1 now, but I'm still not going to share any information. I'm not even going to confirm that I have the same PM as the sample, but I will heavily suggest it. I understand that people might hammer me (sorry, already happened), but I'm not going to give them any information right now to help out town.
3 - Despite the fact that somebody (I can't remember who) said it was a bad idea for us to confirm the exact max bid we've submitted, I want Seacore to, and then when it's clear he's trying to trick scum into wasting a dollar or so, I'm going to imply that he's scummy for it.

I think it's safe to assume that he won't be back before night falls.

It may just be from my POV, but I get the feeling that I might be tonight's NK target, since we don't have anybody claiming to have obtained the kill.
If before Night falls somebody claims it, whoever won the Doctor, don't use your ability, since we can hold that person accountable tomorrow
If nobody claims the NK, can the doctor please flip a coin. Heads I get targeted, tails somebody else. That gives scum a 50% chance of wasting their kill by targeting me.

[Seacore]

Also, I apologise, but I now realise that I have potentially botched an opportunity to guarantee knowing who had the NK. I shouldn't hammer within the 30 mins of waking up. I'm pretty dirty with myself right now.

As it is, it looks like there's been a single bid. Nobody bid on NK during pre-game either.

I'm very dirty at myself, my head was out of the game all weekend and I've botched this. GRRRRR

[Seacore]

Hi guys,

When I said I botched the end of D1 I really meant it. Apart from not letting us set up a better chance of getting the NK, I also misremembered the set up question ability and thought it was a night PR. I only re-read it after my hammer. So I've asked me question now. That question is ""Are there more than two different win conditions among the role PMs sent to players?"

I'll get an answer whenever Magua logs on.

But hey, we did awesome. Getting a strong efficiency bonus = good, lynching scum = good, doing both? Yeah!

If some towny did get NK and used it, I would like to hear about it in thread, we can then discuss whether the Doc outing themselves is a good idea or not.

[Seacore]

You don't get some of your results before you have to submit your other actions. ie You won't know where your tracker target went to the protect their target.

Tracker is really powerful end game, because you have fewer players to choose from and you can narrow down on people's claims. It's not so strong early, because even if you target scum, it may not be a scum that is doing anything that night, so you get useless results. It's even more useless in this game, because people don't have to maintain claims "Hey, I'm the doc from D1" "but you didn't go anywhere N5" "Uh, yeah, because I ran out, duh". That doesn't happen in a normal game.

So, tracker could get really lucky, tracker could hit the scum who wins the NK and then bam, we nail scum, but it's unlikely.

Compare this to watcher. Knowing a watcher is in a normal game, and town, is incredibly powerful, because scum can't always target the most obv town for their NK. Because chances are, there watcher is watching them and bam, Scum is busted. In this game it's slightly different, because we'll know there's a watcher out there, but we won't know the alignment, we also won't know the alignment of the person with the NK.

[Seacore]

Okay I just got my answer. So as you'll recall, my questions was

"Are there more than two different win conditions among the role PMs sent to players?"

My answer was in the

affirmative

(just in case quoting = copying a one word answer)

So, there's the win condition in the Entrepreneur Role PM. Then there's the scum one. Then there's at least one more.
Unless there's a hole in my question, but I think I've covered it.
So, that could mean there's a 3rd party. Or it could mean that members of one of the other two factions have a different worded win con. So if you're town and not an Entrepreneur, check your win con. Don't answer anything in thread, but eventually, I might want to know.

Tomorrow I might as about how many people are in the same faction as the Mafia Zaibatsu Member.

[Seacore]

Of course hiphop, I made the connection the moment Night landed and then promptly forgot. Excellent job picking that up.

That means
1. Doc protected target
2. WLC won the NK.
3. Scum held on to the kill.

However, if that's the case, then we must assume that no other scum were in a position to outbid him, because why wouldn't they have just bid $1 more?

There's the possibility that there is town with lots of money and they did that... but still.

Yes hiphop, throw all of your money down on the NK. Good job!

[Seacore]

If A, they should immediately claim. Otherwise we can assume B, A will be forgiven and we can assume they weren't reading the thread, no scum tell attached.

If B, I don't think we can assume either way. Since they could have bid on it before you declared.

[Seacore]

I do not think Newman's bidding is scummy.

I think it's dumb.

From now on, EVERYBODY checks the thread before they start throwing bids down. We need to be as organised as we can. Newman, your lack of checking has potentially cost the town $90. That's one person's entire pay from last night.
Nobody gets a free ride on that from here on in. Bidding without checking is from now on a scum claim.

Okay, so now that that's out of the way, I think Newman may be scum

Newman bid and won oracle yesterday. That is $20 +1 for bidding.
Newman made two claims today one of which was $189 +2 for bidding

So that is $222.
I'm going to go with the fact that Entrepreneurs start with 100 and then got another 90 last night. Where is your $32 coming from Newman?

[Seacore]

You invested money and bid on Oracle?

Given that you paid 21 to bid on oracle you would have had 79 to invest, giving you a maximum investment return of an additional 39.

So how early in the day did you invest? Before you bid on oracle? After? How did you know 20 was going to be enough to win oracle? Investing 64 of your left over 79 doesn't give you much room there.

[Seacore]

Also, for you to win with a bid of of $20, means that somebody bid $19. So you either got really lucky, or bid more. It's looking a little too convenient for me at this point.

[Seacore]

Woohoo! Confirm town!
I won't be going for any abilities today, since I don't want an even larger target on my back and then to lose us abilities.

Two scum factions is definitely a possibility.
In a mini, the difference between 1 mafia team and 1 SK, and 2 small mafia teams is almost unimportant.
Of course it may just be that the win conditions are sufficiently different in wording that my question could never provide useful results... which would be a shame, but hey.

I'd really like some more info from Newman right now, but he's wandered off (to a scum QT?)

[Seacore]

You are suggesting that you placed a bid on the oracle, was told you were the winning bid. Placed two further bids, and was told that you had not won those?
And then invested $50.

Did you submit your original bids in pre-game, or once Day 1 had started?

[Seacore]

Ethos, I don't think that's how it works. I think it just goes

Person A submits a max bid of X,
Person B submits a max bid of Y

X < Y

Person B holds the highest bid at X+1

Therefore Newman is definitely lying.

[Seacore]

I bid a lesser amount, and was outbid. I then bid all that I had left available,

$189

, and was outbid.

Good lord people, this is ridiculous.


- I bid $29 max on oracle.
- I won it @ $20.
- I bid on 2 other auctions, but did not beat the high bid (-$2)
- I invested $50.
- Day 2 started and I received $90 (wage + bonus)
- I then had $117
- I bid $116 on NK straightaway
- For a shirt time, I was high bidder
- 8 hours into Day 2, my CD matured and I received $75
- I was no longer high bidder
- I bid

$190

on NK
- I was told I was not the high bidder

Now that everyone knows how much cash I have, are there any more questions?

Newman has been inconsistent.

Let's look

He starts with $100
He bids $29 (+1 fee) on Oracle = $70 total
He bids on two more auctions unsuccessfully = $68
He deposits $50 = $18
He gets a refund of $9 when he wins Oracle = $27
He gets $90 during the night = 117
He bids $116 +1 fee) on NK = 0
That fails = $116
He gains his investment and proft +$75 = $191

He then, as he put it in his first statement "Bid all that he had left available"
Which should be $190 + $1 fee
But it wasn't, since then Hiphop would be winning at $191, not $190

Newman got the bid right in his first post, but realised he screwed up his fake maths and changed it to $190

Busted

Vote Newman

[Seacore]

Ethos, it adds up if you accept that he bid $190

He could not have bid $190, because
a) that is the current highest bid
b) hiphop says he's currently winning it
c) Newman says he lost the current bid

Newman is lying.

[Seacore]

1. It's possible, as was suggested, that he screwed up his reading of Auction Detective, I know I've screwed up reading a couple of abilities, and thus he confessed rather than be busted.
2. I'm arguing that this is a lie.
3. You and I have both proven that he had $191 at the time he claimed to have bid it all on the NK. I have proven that he could only have bid $189. Thus he lied
4. WIFOM

[Seacore]

In short, he has definitely lied. He must be lynched for this.

I'm V/LA starting now until Australian Monday. I'll try and check in through my phone, but who knows...

Please try and organise the other abilities, but don't delay the hammer, we get more money this way.

[Seacore]

I'm back from VLA, expect reads in 24 hours.

[Seacore]

I'm still happy with lynching Newman. I'm a bit confused about this Ghost v Midnight Cop auction debate. Can both of them please make claims in bold about how much they bid and when? I'd recommend checking PMs and/or with the mod because you will be held to your bolded comments.

[Seacore]

Yeah, I get that, I'm still not comfortable with his holding back of information. Which is why I'd like him lynched. Someone who has provided so much misinformation must be removed. First the 189 v 190 bid and now saying he had deleted things so he didn't have to provide info. It's not good, he should die. If we don't lynch him, I'd like you to kill him should you win the NK. Or to at least consider it anyway.

On the other front, it looks like MS is lying and should also be killed. I'd vote for either one at this point and hope you kill the other.

[Seacore]

There's two things I look for when hunting scum

1. scum motivation vs town motivation, and I agree, there's not that much scum motivation for lying here.

but then there's

2. inconsistencies. Scum have to fabricate everything they say, even if they'd say it anyway, even if it's the truth, they have to run it past part of their brain to say "will this out me" and it's that process that reveals inconsistencies. Town have nothing to lose by openly putting down everything they do, so they'll tend to do it truthfully. Scum don't.

That's why I'm finding MS dodgy right now, and why I'm still finding HN dodgy.

[Seacore]

Unvote. Vote Midnight Sorrow

Lets get this wagon on the move. MS has lied in thread and hasn't come back to clarify. Let's kill now, hope that hip hop takes out Newman or Icey and all gain our bonuses.

I'm happy with what Lady is bringing to the game, although I disagree on some points, but that's fine.

Also, just to clarify, I ask my questions during the Day, not the Night.

With that being said, lets move this to a lynch.

[Seacore]

I disagree mainly with your thoughts on whether the town should direct the NK.

I think it should.
Yes the scum get 'input', but they get input on the lynching and we get to learn more info that way, while still having accountability.

Hell, we know I'm town, how about I direct the NK every night? How's that for a compromise? It forces our NK winners to do what I say or claim scum, and we know the scum aren't influencing the decision.

I see your points on Ghostlin, but I'm just not convinced. Yet anyway.

[Seacore]

No No No, I don't need the kill, I just get to direct it, then it doesn't matter who gets the kill, and if scum end up getting it then they're wasting their cash.

[Seacore]

It'd be a toss up.

Assuming that we lynch MS, then I'd want Newman killed at night.
However, I'm also thinking that we should NK our lurkers, since i think it's a bit convenient that they just pop in every couple of days despite this being a game where town is rewarded for speed.
In which case Chaos would totally be on that list.

So right now either Newman or Chaos, probably leaning more towards Chaos since I definitely don't have a town read on him.

[Seacore]

Actually, take that back. I was mistaking Chaos for MS for some weird reason.

No, I want MS lynched and Newman NK'd. Done.

[Seacore]

Either way, scum were forced to spend $100 for the NK. And then for some reason it didn't get used.

Meaning
a)WLC won it. Hah!
b)They held onto it
c)It was blocked

I guess we'll know tonight, or have a better idea anyway.

I'd be happy with a brisk lynch of MS at this point. I get the feeling that it's going to be MS who is lynched anyway, so lets get a wiggle on.

[Seacore]

More MS votes please, lets get this done. Newman dies from night kill tonight, the two doctors better not stop it.

[Seacore]

What if I command it? As your king!

Or more seriously, why not? The guy has lied so many times. Town that refuses to give us information, lies and is inconsistent all the time and at his very best doesn't read the thread before bidding is not town I want around.

[Seacore]

Good to know, but I'm not sure how to use it.

How about, the lynch target, each day, transfers all of their money to me.
That night, I transfer all their money to one of my town reads.

[Seacore]

Then I'm not sure how to use it, since it makes me a huge target.

[Seacore]

Yeah, definitely. Unless we can think of a better plan, we give the lynch an opportunity to send the money and they don't declare who they send it to. It makes tracking the money hard, but I think that ship will have sailed by Day 3 anyway.

[Seacore]

Agreed.

It just makes me nervous not know what the scum can do. Obviously someone out there can steal from the auction house. But what if there's some out there that can steal from us, or if they kill us take our stuff, etc.

[Seacore]

Losing a NK for the town is far far far less important than stopping the scum from gaining one.

Even if we throw away the NK every night, that turns this into a game where we get lynches and scum don't get NKs, that's a huge advantage, and one I'd much rather than just having a vig around.

[Seacore]

Sigh.

Don't be stupid.

We don't know if you're scum. Everything you've done seems town. You're in my town list. But we don't know you're town.

And tomorrow, you won't win the NK, somebody else will. Somebody else who we probably won't know the alignment of.

Normally, I'm all about Vigs shooting on conscience, but that's not what this is. That's not what's happening in this game.

Each night, in this game, there is a single kill. However, we have the ability to stop that kill falling into scum hands. However, we won't know whether we've done that. So we have another ability to neutralise the kill, we declare the target.

Declaring the target of the NK has the following benefits
1. Scum can't use the kill to kill whoever they want. scumhop could shoot at one of the dodgy townies and say "well I thought he was scummy" Hell, scumhop could shoot at RedCoyote and say "I thought I caught him in a slip, I was so wrong!" although we'd probably lynch him for it.
2. Town won't waste their doctors and roleblocks
3. Scum will waste their doctors and roleblocks.
4. If scum have doctor or roleblock they'll use them like that would anyway, and worst case scenario they soak up the night kills
5. If we declare a town target, it was probably going to be one we were going to lynch anyway, saving us from a mislynch

In short, allowing us to discuss and declare the NK removes the NK from the game and basically gives us 2 lynches a day. (Although it might get blocked, but that's still small peanuts to play to remove scum's second biggest advantage - the biggest being them being informed)

[Seacore]

I think we wait until tomorrow for the doctor to claim his/her targets. That way that doctor is all used up.

Actually, you're right. hiphop has the NK tonight, plus there's a watcher around.

I was the N1 Doctor. I targeted Red Coyote. I didn't think I'd win both that and the setup. I have little money now.

[Seacore]

Sounds good to me.

[Seacore]

Unvote. Vote Ghostlin

[Seacore]

I'm cool with Newman, Ice or Pere being the NK target tonight. I shan't be protecting any of them.

[Seacore]

well, there goes the advertising plan...

[Seacore]

hiphop, town read or not, you NEED to kill GreyIce if Ghostlin flips town.

[Seacore]

Yeah. My only concern at the moment is that this is a giant gambit between you and ghostlin, so that when he flips scum, you're painted as obv town.

But
a) that's probably just my paranoia
b) I'll just remind myself and others that you're just "likely" town.

[Seacore]

Howdy

I understand that we have this game in the bag, but wouldn't it be great to have an absolutely perfect game? I don't think we have to worry about racing the deadline, our buying power far outstrips the remaining scum.

I'll bid on Blind Auction and then not use it.

I'm also thinking about the question.

How about, "Do members of the Mafia Zaibatsu and/or Mafia Cartel factions have the ability to take money from the Marketplace?"

My thoughts are that if the answer is yes, we're safe, if the answer is no, we've got a 3rd Party.

[Seacore]

I'd probably prefer you transfer your money, as you're high on the lynch list.

[Seacore]

Probably hip hop, he's all but confirmed town and spent lots of money yesterday.

I'm currently the winning bidder on the blind bid.

Waiting for some feedback about my questions.

[Seacore]

There's 10 of us left, with Pere, Chaos, Mal and Newman as the most popular scum options, probably roughly in that order.

However, there's always the chance that somebody else is the remaining scum, plus there's the possibility of a 3rd party (or technically 4th party).

The lack of guaranteed scum-NK makes these scum teams a lot weaker, so I'm concerned as to how that may have been balanced.

Anywho, D3 there's 10 of us. 8v1v1 or 9v1

Let's run with an assumption that we maintain control over the NK, which I think is doable. We lynch Pere, and NK one of the remaining three.
Then we lynch one of the remaining two and NK the last.

That gives us 6 left. If we haven't found iceguy's buddy in that time, we're potentially at 4v1v1. Nobody is confirmed town at this point.
Hiphop is almost as good as confirmed.
I've lost my confirmed status with Ghostlin's death
RC/VM, Ethos, LLD and GI all seem strong town to me, but I'm not falling into the trap of assuming anything.

There's also the possibility that our 3rd party doesn't have a kill based win condition. I mean, if it's hard for scum to win with no scum NK each night, it would be that much harder for an SK. What if their win condition is "steal X from the auction house"?

Well, there was a large mental dump.

Oh, finally, Void, did you get a cop ability to use last night?

[Seacore]

Also, should we advertise for a cop ability?

[Seacore]

Okay, asking the question now.

Nobody say anything more about voided's cop ability until voided speaks about it.

[Seacore]

Okay. If Voided is telling the truth, that means that WLC has untouched Cop abilities on his person.

I think that drastically changes who we want to get the Graverob...

Who is that again *goes to check*

[Seacore]

Mod: Rule Clarification - If a an auction closes early due to a lynch (as it did in Day 1) and the current highest bidder of that item is lynched, would they still win the item, and thus it be 'buried with them'? Or would it instead expire with no winner? Or is there another option?

@hiphop: So, scum start with lots of cash, what's surprising about double ours?

[Seacore]

Look, I think it might be time for some mass claims of abilities.

We're in a massively strong position here of being able to control the NK, even if scum DO get it. Knowing where all the PRs are may a) let us check if somebody had too much money at a certain time, b) catch people who have lied and c) stop scum with Doc from blocking NKs, since we'll know who did it.

[Seacore]

Cop x 2

- Ghostlin claimed, Voided unclaimed, maybe on WLC's body?

Doctor x 2

- Seacore claimed, used up on Redcoyote and Ethos

Extra Vote x 2

- Unclaimed

Governor x 1

- Unclaimed

Investigation Immunity x 4

- Unclaimed

Last Will x 3

- Confirmed won by Ghostlin

Neighborizer x 3

- Unclaimed

Night-kill x 1

- Unclaimed and potentially unused

Oracle x 2

- Likely won by Newman, not quite confirmed

Setup Information x 3

- Seacore claimed

Vote Nullifier x 1

- Unclaimed

Auction Detective x 2

LLD Claimed

Commuter x 2

- Unclaimed

Doctor x 2

- Unclaimed

Love Potion x 1

- Unclaimed

Medium x 3

- Unclaimed

Night-kill x 1

- Used to kill Iceguy, all but confirmed hiphop

Ninja x 4

- Unclaimed

Roleblocker x 3

- Unclaimed

Tracker x 2

- Voided claimed that Ghostlin won and passed it on

Watcher x 1

- Unclaimed

Please repost with updates. I know some people have claimed some things I've written down as unclaimed, but I'm at work and lazy/busy

[Seacore]

In fact, I would like people to claim all of their money transactions in their next posts. I will then play with an excel sheet.

[Seacore]

I just got my answer to my question.

Neither of the mafia factions that we've seen can take money from the marketplace

So it's somebody else. Or my question was flawed, I'm always paranoid about that.

Town, you have one chance to come forward and claim the marketplace money mechanic as your own, otherwise proof you've done so will be considered a scum claim.

[Seacore]

@LLD I have already. I just copy and pasted that wording

@Newman. No it doesn't. It proves that you or somebody you have Day Talk with has Oracle. Would I bet money against you having it? No. But I work in concrete facts. You'll notice that I put my two abilities down as claimed. Get over yourself, none of us got your Role PM, we don't know what team you're on.

[Seacore]

I'm very unimpressed with LLD's contributions today. Particularly when we've asked for multiple claims.

[Seacore]

I want every single ability you've ever won, when you've used it (feel free to skimp on the precise details there) and every bid and money transaction that has ever been made.

[Seacore]

Do you know how I won the first PYP game that got me the Best Town Performance banner you see up there? By getting claims, evaluating them and then catching the final two scum out.

This is what I do and I'm fairly decent at it.
So enough stalling while you try and fake up some numbers that fit together, and post everything.

[Seacore]

EBWOP: Fine, at least give me what you started with yesterday.

[Seacore]

Guess I should have been in that game and town to help them do it right?

[Seacore]

I'm mostly joking, but in all seriousness, let me do my thing.

In other news, Ethos, your Day 1 numbers aren't adding up. You claim to have started with 100, paid out 25+1 and 31+1 and then gained 90 to start Day 2 with 137. You should have started on $132. Please explain.

[Seacore]

@Voided - Your original investment does not add up. $99 x1.5 = 148.5, (rounded down to 148) not 147.
Please explain and also give me how many times you bid on things today and how much you invested.

[Seacore]

Okay, so I'm still waiting on Grey, Newman and Chaos for their transaction claims.

Hiphop, Pere and Mal all check out fine.

LLD, I'll wait until you get a response from Magua, but I have a couple of questions for when that happens.

[Seacore]

I'm not attempting to catch people right now. I'm attempting to confine scum to preset claims and catch them later.

[Seacore]

I don't really, you talk about paychecks but that's about it, unless I'm missing it.

[Seacore]

Seacore:
Started with 100
Bid 49 on Set Up
Bid 49 on Doctor
Giving me $0
Won set up for 41 and doctor for 40
giving me 17
Gained 90 N1
Started with 107
Put 106 in deposit
Gained 75 N2
Bid on Blind Bid
deposit matured to 159
Giving me 234 less Current Bid

[Seacore]

Do you get the same efficiency and start of day bonuses that we get?

[Seacore]

You get that I'm not voting Voided, right? I don't have my vote anywhere right now.

[Seacore]

Also, in a two scum faction set up, he isn't confirmed town by soaking up a kill.

[Seacore]

GI, I hate your attitude. I play this game for fun and I'll play it however I please. I have won games doing stuff like this in the past. Analysing games and PR results. I scum hunt far better this way than by reading motivations. I also enjoy it. So you're not going to stop me from doing it.

I dislike the way you call people morons, I dislike the way you use Caps for no good reason. And I'm asking to stop.

[Seacore]

Have I ever asked somebody to even throw a single vote down based on what the questions I've been asking? No.

As has been explained, if info gathering and locking scum into their claims as best I can. You search for scum your way, I'll search for them my way.

Also, I'm now going to replace out of any game that GI enters or replaces into. Excluding this one. I just can't stand his ignorant and offensive attitude.

[Seacore]

Also, Chaos, while you're here, mind doing the claim along with everybody else?

[Seacore]

hip hop, that's not a good enough reason.

Let me explain.

Smart scum "If I bid really quickly and I throw down $99, that means that town can't win, because they can't bid more than me. And I also look town, because I've bid within the money that the sample PM suggests town have"

Then the other scum team out bids them because they want the kill.

PEDIT: Nah, thats cool Chaos, I missed that, thanks.

[Seacore]

My current inclination is to lynch Pere and have Chaos NK'd

[Seacore]

Cop x 2

- Ghostlin claimed, Voided unclaimed, maybe on WLC's body?

Doctor x 2

- Seacore claimed, used up on Redcoyote and Ethos

Extra Vote x 2

- Unclaimed

Governor x 1

- Ethos claimed, still unused

Investigation Immunity x 4

- Unclaimed

Last Will x 3

- Confirmed won by Ghostlin

Neighborizer x 3

- Ethos claimed, used x2 (same QT)

Night-kill x 1

- Unclaimed and potentially unused

Oracle x 2

- Likely won by Newman, not quite confirmed

Setup Information x 3

- Seacore claimed

Vote Nullifier x 1

- Unclaimed

Auction Detective x 2

LLD Claimed

Commuter x 2

- Unclaimed

Doctor x 2

- Malpascp claimed

Love Potion x 1

- Unclaimed

Medium x 3

- Newman

Night-kill x 1

- Used to kill Iceguy, all but confirmed hiphop

Ninja x 4

- Unclaimed

Roleblocker x 3

- Unclaimed

Tracker x 2

- Voided claimed that Ghostlin won and passed it on

Watcher x 1

- Ethos claimed, not knowing if used

Today's

Accountant x 3 Ethos Bid

Blind Bid x 1

- Seacore Bid

Bulletproof x 2

-Mal Bid

Federal Reserve Chairman x 1

- GreyIce Bid

Gravedigger x 1

- LLD Bid

Hitman x 2

- Voided Bid

Night-kill x 1

- Voided Bid

Vote Freezer x 1

- No Bid

So that brings us to the unclaimed.
D1

Cop x 2

- Ghostlin claimed, Voided unclaimed, maybe on WLC's body?

Extra Vote x 2

- Unclaimed

Investigation Immunity x 4

- Unclaimed

Night-kill x 1

- Unclaimed and potentially unused

D2

Vote Nullifier x 1

- Unclaimed

Commuter x 2

- Unclaimed

Love Potion x 1

- Unclaimed

Ninja x 4

- Unclaimed

Roleblocker x 3

- Unclaimed

All of them were won and I think all of them should be claimed. Even things like Commuter. Town holds the balance of power here and it would be best if everybody stepped forward. Obviously some of them are likely on the scum corpses we have.

[Seacore]

Anyway, with that done

Vote Pere

[Seacore]

I'm pro speed lynch, more money for us in the long run

PEDIT: Agree with Ethos.

[Seacore]

In fact, lets bold that up.

If you hammer this lynch and you are not voided, you've just claimed scum

[Seacore]

Hello! I'll hold off on my claim until I get popcorned

I'm trying to think through the voided theory. Each time I come to a conclusion I think of something that makes me flip my mind.

There's also the possibility that LLD is lying about not getting the graverob

[Seacore]

I've got 1 question left too, I almost forgot.

[Seacore]

I'm an Entrepreneur as well.

I'm thinking of asking whether one of our "special" roles exists with the last question. Leaning towards LLD's

[Seacore]

Well nuts.

Totally fair, but nuts.

[Seacore]

Vote LLD

For that comment.

[Seacore]

No, I've already claimed.

LLD, I'm not voting for you because of the fact the mod won't let me confirm you, I'm voting you for the way you reacted to the mod's comment.

I'm asking my question now.

[Seacore]

I'm not even allowed to ask that one.

I also probably can't ask how many entrepreneurs the game started with.

Any other ideas?

[Seacore]

Okay.

[Seacore]

Is the a win condition not shared by Zaibatsu, Cartel or Entrepreneurs?

Is what I asked

Also, I don't think the mod's refusal to answer the previous question clears either of them. Assuming one of them is lying (and my money is on LLD) then it breaks the game down to just killing both of them and winning.

[Seacore]

I got a yes

[Seacore]

I don't see a difference. If Grey or LLD win with us then they share our win con.

[Seacore]

Anyway, I'd love the cop abilitiy. Anybody declaring they'll outbid me on it?

[Seacore]

We will give time for whoever is going to be lynched to transfer money to whoever we say. Personally, I'd like the money, I think I'm more confirmed town than anybody else.

[Seacore]

Ugh, my lynch of today wants to lynch my lynch from Day 3... so hard to choose. Basically, I'd be happy to kill either of you and NK the other.

I've been holding off bidding on Cop. I will continue to hold off, no need to give scum too much information.

[Seacore]

What should I bid on then? And what is your plan with cop if we don't get the NK?

[Seacore]

Cool, well I might chuck my money into a CD as of this point and then get everybody to send me their cash.

[Seacore]

Done.

[Seacore]

Rather than everybody send their money to me. I think people should flip a coin and send it either to Hiphop or me. Making it harder for the scum to get rid of our cash.

[Seacore]

Seriously? You are a terrible player HN, assuming you are town. This is a team game, not a solo game. If you were an unlimited Town Vig, then I could accept a solo mentality, but you cannot win this game by yourself.
You have lied frequently.
You have ignored the plans

You have potentially lost this game for us.

[Seacore]

I am very comfortable with the HN lynch.

[Seacore]

so who's claiming those?

[Seacore]

Yeah, that's a rather good point. Sorry, distracted at work. Only the other two should claim.

[Seacore]

Unvote. Vot Mal

Fine, I'll follow you guys on this one.

[Seacore]

So, I'm going for the NK today?

In other news, I'm lost.

[Seacore]

GI has said he wants NK. So I guess I'd be okay giving that up. But I might go after hitman just to remove it from the equation. Otherwise I'd like tracker.

[Seacore]

I'd prefer to go for the NK, but that's only because I know I'm town. I don't want to get into a bidding war with GI, and I can't bid until some time into this Day when my CD matures.

[Seacore]

I have no idea how much the scum would have, if we assume they blew a lot of money yesterday then I'll be fine, I should have well over $600

[Seacore]

Please explain the logic of giving the NK to somebody other than the most town player?

I'm not saying I disagree, I'd just like to know why.

[Seacore]

GREYICE!

[Seacore]

However, GreyIce is not more town than me. I am mod-confirmed town. There is no way that the mod posts a rules clarification otherwise.

[Seacore]

I will have more money than you at some stage of today. just FYI

But I'm cool for getting doc and last will now, and getting NK tomorrow.

[Seacore]

Hitman isn't Strongman, it only guarantees kills.

[Seacore]

I don't understand why having non-standard town-roles (ie LLD and GI) is a point in their favour.

Particularly for LLD. I mean, if you were going to need to explain why you have different money to the town, then you'd come up with a different way to accumulate that money.

PEDIT
Sigh, people should wait for discussion before bidding. And people shouldn't bid on multiple things because that just forces town to pay more money.

And I don't have over 700 now, but I will some hours in.

[Seacore]

Yeah, I only got the money 1 hour before the auctions closed, and I was asleep when that happened.

So, am I bidding on the NK now? And Hitman?

[Seacore]

Why would robbing and being voted for be anyway related?

Robbing is anonymous, there's no way to track it, so it's not like he could lay low. The fact that he kept getting super frustrated about not being scum could easily be him being the robber.

[Seacore]

Who is currently bidding for hitman, because I want it. And how much are you bidding?

[Seacore]

Oh look, simply scrolling up the page shows that nobody is.

Cool, I might throw down some small bid on that and pour the rest into NK.

[Seacore]

Ah, it took me a while, but I see the logic, I was looking at it from HN-robber POV. But it makes sense from a X-robber POV. Yep. gotcha.

[Seacore]

Cool, I'm not going to bid on NK then, if GI has it.

Instead I might bid on hitman and doctor. Who currently has doctor?

[Seacore]

Sigh, this is going to be me not getting anything again today isn't it.

Ah well. I'm going to buy myself Hitman just to stop other people from getting it.

[Seacore]

vote LLD

L-1

[Seacore]

I certainly do have the hitman, so there is no reason for somebody to not hammer right now

[Seacore]

NOBODY BID ON ANYTHING! We will discuss this. We should be just down to the thief so early bidding only helps the thief.

[Seacore]

Just a heads up, my wife is 40 weeks pregnant and we're expecting 'go time' really any moment. So there's a tentative V/LA in the air from here on out.

That being said.

I believe I'm confirmed town, since my questions alerted us to the robber/SK role. I could have lied or asked different questions, so yeah, I'm town.
If voided can be confirmed town, and I've only skimmed through so far, then we've won. We just lynch and NK our way through the remaining players until we win. We just need to insure that we always win the NK. We can do this through transfers of cash prior to lynching.

[Seacore]

I'm cool with lynching Ethos and NKing Newman

Can somebody please tell me what I should be bidding on and how.

[Seacore]

HN seems to be unconcerned with scum hunting and interested only in saving his own ass.

I'm poised and ready to bid on gravedigger.
Because I ain't nothin but a gravedigger, I ain't messin' with no live vigger.

See I said vigger because it's a role in mafia and I don't want to drop any N-bombs.

In other news I'm over tired and over waiting for this baby to be born.

I think we should lynch Ethos and NK Newman.
Tomorrow, assuming my gravedigger clears Void, we've won the game assuming we can control the NKs.

[Seacore]

Full steam ahead for an Ethos lynch.

So how are we going to run this bitch with the bidding? I haven't bid yet.

[Seacore]

works for me. nothing expires by then does it?

[Seacore]

Aren't we lynching Ethos and NKing newman?

Or are we lynching newman and NKing Ethos.

Either way is good.

[Seacore]

Hang on, who am I using Gravedigger on? Sorry, I'm trying to keep up but life is crazy right now.

[Seacore]

yeah, that's cool too.

My flip flopping comes from not really caring who we lynch, since once I grave rob, this game is won.

So, how are we running this?

When do I throw my bid down/vote?

[Seacore]

Yeah, scum is Ethos. I'm the one player that makes the least sense as a robber, having outted the robber with my questions.

Anyway.

Vote Newman

deal with Ethos tomorrow.

[Seacore]

As I've said, I don't really care who we lynch, because I think we've already won this game. I kinda want Newman dead because he was playing such a blatant anti-town anti-team game early.
I know they were written by two different people, but it's still scummy. Either way, I hope both are dead by morning.

[Seacore]

yep, I'm cool with killing hiphop

unvote vote hiphop,

more votes please.

[Seacore]

Congrats Grey. I'm probably largely to blame for this loss. I had a lot of set up information at my disposal and I also had all the money information, if I was any less busy I could potentially have done something with it.

Great game Magua, really well balanced and I'm glad for you the game continued to be contested after such a strong town start.