Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Kinetic]

If there was N0 recruiting, then Katsuki or tajo is still scum.

I can't decide which, though.

Tajo's pretty contaminated upon re-reading.

Can I have opinions from the rest of you, regarding tajo vs. Katsuki?

I can't see the forest from the trees. One of these two is scum. Maybe even both.

Bah.
I'm starting to rethink my town read on Katsuki.
But Tajo been tunneling you pretty hard.
I would say Tajo.

@Kinetic: Each recuiter should have a possibly 3 recruits (N0, N1, N2). We eliminated one recruit putting one of you at 2-3 possibility. Where is the logic in listening to you (who is confirmed scum) when the possiblity of you just trying to get a mislynch to happen so we end up in a situation where (town) can't win?
Even if DGB is ABR recuit, don't think so, lynching her would leave ABR with 1 recruit and therefore he's still alive.
Now the reason you want DGB to be lynch is because if she flips ABR recruit, THEN YOUR VICTORY IS CONFIRMED AGAINST HIM, assuming Poro was ABR recruit. You no longer have to worry about ABR as he will be down 2 recruits from you. You can even afford to lose one recruit. Now all you have to worry about is Town, while town is still worrying about ABR and yourself.
Now, unless you want to reveal how your cult recruiting work and explain to us how ABR will be gone forever if we lynch DGB, then I suggest you stop posting.

You're Albert's other recruit, aren't you.

[DrippingGoofball]

BL, that's why you don't listen to the scums.

If Poro was ABR's recruit... then from Kinetic's PoV, I cannot possibly be ABR's recruit... because that would imply that Poro did everything he could to kill a fellow recruit. So right then and there, you should know that Kinetic is a nonsense spewing factory, and you'd ignore him completely.

If anything, Kinetic is one man down, and he's trashing like a fish on a hook, because we're on to Katsuki and tajo, which, if I'm right, will lose him the game.

[Kinetic]

"You know DGB, Kinetic makes some interesting points, what is your response?"

"LYNCH ME, FUCKING HELL FGADSRDFGDSFBDSFVBFDGWRDVBFDZSGBERGRD JUST FUCKING LYNCH ME!"

"..."

"So, then DGB must be town."

[Katsuki]

DGB, that setup was a broken piece of shut anyway.

Anyway, Katsuki is being weird...

And DGB is town~

I don't get why you continuously refuse to see the scum in front of you.

Go look at DGB towards the later days of OOT mafia. Then come back and look.

[Fritzler]

Well, considering that it's almost 90% certain that someone tried to cult recruit Andrius N1 and FAILED, it's not likely.

If that's true, could be ABR. ABR is going for quality recruits, Kinetic is scraping the bottom of the barrel? Maybe players have a choice to die as town, or join the cult? Andrius would die as town.

I don't see that as feasible, it is too easy to break, all townies would just have to agree to die as town to make odds way better for town.

[Bunnylover]

BL, that's why you don't listen to the scums.

If Poro was ABR's recruit... then from Kinetic's PoV, I cannot possibly be ABR's recruit... because that would imply that Poro did everything he could to kill a fellow recruit. So right then and there, you should know that Kinetic is a nonsense spewing factory, and you'd ignore him completely.

If anything, Kinetic is one man down, and he's trashing like a fish on a hook, because we're on to Katsuki and tajo, which, if I'm right, will lose him the game.

Oh I'm not listening to him.
I don't believe him.
Most of my post are "Lets say I believe you" situation.
Too bad I don't.


KASTUKI:

@Katuski: Why would you be fine with a DGB or Tanarin lynch? Given that you said this in response to a question about DGB possibly being Kinetic recruit:
"
Given what I saw yesterday, it certainly is possible.

"
Why would you even consider another lynch if you have inside information (or did I misread the above?) about the possibility of DGB been recruited?

@DGB: Why are you playing so differently from previous game I've been with you? Your play is starting to remind me of when you where an SK in that one game I forgot the name of .

[Katsuki]

Anyone else notice the drastic change in LLD's play since day one?

This is good stuff. ^^^

DGB's argument against Katsuki is that she seems to not be paying attention to anything and wants her lynched as a Kinetic recruit. I don't have very strong feelings about this. I'll have to look harder at Katsuki.

The "not paying attention" isn't the main case, it

supports

the main case.

Kinetic tried to frame me and failed.

Next up, Porochaz tunneled on me and nothing else. He was Kinetic's recruit. By tunneling on me, he gave away that the Kinetic cult is after me. They really have a bee in their bonnet about ME. Which means that there is definitely ONE (and much less probably TWO) player today that is a Kinetic recruit carrying on with the Kinetic-cult plan that I need to be lynched at all cost.

Katsuki and tajo are the two possible candidates for this. The fact that Katsuki isn't paying attention to anything at all, except what I believe is following Kinetic's orders, strongly point to Katsuki being culted. Just like he would if he'd be recruited by what he might perceive to be a star player.

"Oh yes Mr. Kinetic, Sir, yes, I will give a DGB lynch my all, at your service Sir."

Katsuki didn't have a problem with me all of Day 1.

Then on June 24:

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

That was late in the day that Kinetic tried to frame me (day 2). Kinetic tried to frame me right off the bat at daybreak, on June 18.

Tajo.

Tajo had me firmly as town on June 5. But after Kinetic tried to frame me, tajo REACTS to Kinetic's post (as evidenced by the sadface emoticon):

VOTE: DGB

Then minutes later, he distances himself from Kinetic.

FTR, MY REASON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KINETIC

SECRET SCUMTELL FROM DGB

TIMELINE

Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:25 am FLAY OPEND THREAD for Day 2.
Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:56 am TAJO votes Yosarian.
Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:53 pm Porochaz's first post, and vote of the day.
Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:05 pm Kinetic starts to frame me with lies.
Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:09 am Ludi votes me "(

plus whatever the heck Kinetic is talking about, but don't factor that into anything

)".

ThaD, Tanarin, Yosarin, bvoigt, SL, weren't Kinetic cultists on Day 2.

=======================

What are the chances that Kinetic had two recruits (Porochaz + X) and failed to recruit me by Day 2?

WOW I wonder WHY it took me so many days after the stuff took place for me to make a post... Maybe it was because I was AT YOUR HOUSE for GOOFBASH and thus V/LA.

The fact you're trying to use timestamps against me considering that you KNEW where I was AND had me UNDER YOUR EYES (literally) is not town-DGB mindset AT ALL.

You're taking anything you can right now to try and push for my lynch. Pity it's failing since all you can do is fabricate supposed "evidence".

[Katsuki]

KASTUKI:

@Katuski: Why would you be fine with a DGB or Tanarin lynch? Given that you said this in response to a question about DGB possibly being Kinetic recruit:
"
Given what I saw yesterday, it certainly is possible.

"
Why would you even consider another lynch if you have inside information (or did I misread the above?) about the possibility of DGB been recruited?

Where did inside information come from?
I've been calling DGB scum based on play.

[DrippingGoofball]

WOW I wonder WHY it took me so many days after the stuff took place for me to make a post... Maybe it was because I was AT YOUR HOUSE for GOOFBASH and thus V/LA.

I don't recall arguing that a posting delay means you're scum.

I'm looking at immediate "let's go after DGB" that hints at a strategy discussed in the cult QTs.

Katsuki, are you being obtuse on purpose? Do you understand that I suspect you (and tajo) because you're after me... like Kinetic and his known recruit Porochaz? Can you see this point of view as a valid one? That the Kinetic cult is convinced I'm an ABR recruit and want me lynched? And therefore, I expect other living Kinetic recruit to do the same (ie go after me like pitbulls)?

KATSUKI, ANSWER THE ABOVE PLZ

. And the questions below, while you're at it.

While not impossible, it would be somewhat of a stretch that both you and tajo be culted by Kinetic. The time stamps are there to compare tajo's reactions to yours. I have not been able to draw a conclusion, as you should clearly see if you were actually reading the game.

Can you convince me that you're not a Kinetic recruit? Do you understand that if you're not a Kinetic recruit, chances are very very very high that tajo is one?

[DrippingGoofball]

Go look at DGB towards the later days of OOT mafia. Then come back and look.

Show us. Get quotes. Compare one to the other. Don't just tell us "

Meta!!! Meta!!! Go look it up yourself!!!

"

Also, you'll have to show a control. You'll have to compare at least 3 scum games of mine, and at least 3 town games as a control. That's how science does it.

Remain objective.

[Katsuki]

DGB, you're the one purposefully being obtuse, not me.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't see that as feasible, it is too easy to break, all townies would just have to agree to die as town to make odds way better for town.

But we wouldn't know ahead of time, though. The dead townies don't talk.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, you're the one purposefully being obtuse, not me.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

[DrippingGoofball]

Katsuki, if you don't answer the questions to my satisfaction, I'm going to have to conclude that you're the Kinetic recruit, and tajo isn't.

Because a non-Kinetic recruit would have answered the questions.

[Cobblerfone]

But we wouldn't know ahead of time, though. The dead townies don't talk.

But it wouldn't matter if we knew ahead of time if we just find out once someone attempts to recruit us. Why are you dwelling on these unrealistic scenarios?

Is this the DGB from Speed Mafia?

I'm torn. Spring's off the hook for now:
UNVOTE:

Now, do I vote, LLD, Kats, or DGB?
@Lambda: Please answer my question. What makes you think Katsuki is scum today that wasn't here yesterday?

[DrippingGoofball]

Why are you dwelling on these unrealistic scenarios?

Yeah, I've seen this mechanic years ago, but it's not happening here if LLD is right that Andrius was cult-recruit-failed Night 1... Andrius died Night 2.

So nvm.

What makes you think Katsuki is scum today that wasn't here yesterday?

Are you even reading??????????????????

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's because Katsuki is playing the game and pushing a DGB lynch.

That's not her. It's totally meta and gut, and I put no credence in either of those usually...

But in a game like this, when alignment changes on a dime, it's good to use at times.

She's just being odd compared to Kats!town.

[Cobblerfone]

Are you even reading??????????????????

The question is to LadyLambda, who didn't see Katsuki as scum yesterday. IIRC.

PREDIT & ISO-check:

The Katsuki vote was terribad. I don't even get what his reasoning for it was.

So, I didn't recall

quite

correctly. It's still worth noting.

Yeah, I've seen this mechanic years ago, but it's not happening here if LLD is right that Andrius was cult-recruit-failed Night 1... Andrius died Night 2.

So nvm.

I'm guessing she's alluding to the whole "teamster meet-up" where I was the only one that apparently showed. Since she thinks I'm scum. Still, I asked her for clarity.

ANYWAY since the two people that apparently had a town read on Katsuki to contradict my scumsense on Kats now agree that Kats is suspicious:

VOTE: Katsuki

[Bunnylover]

KASTUKI:

@Katuski: Why would you be fine with a DGB or Tanarin lynch? Given that you said this in response to a question about DGB possibly being Kinetic recruit:
"
Given what I saw yesterday, it certainly is possible.

"
Why would you even consider another lynch if you have inside information (or did I misread the above?) about the possibility of DGB been recruited?

Where did inside information come from?
I've been calling DGB scum based on play.

You said "Based on what I saw yesterday"
I assumed that meant inside information.

[Magister Ludi]

ANYWAY since the two people that apparently had a town read on Katsuki to contradict my scumsense on Kats now agree that Kats is suspicious:

What does this mean?

It's because Katsuki is playing the game and pushing a DGB lynch.

That's not her. It's totally meta and gut, and I put no credence in either of those usually...

But in a game like this, when alignment changes on a dime, it's good to use at times.

She's just being odd compared to Kats!town.

You think DGB is playing at all pro-town here, let alone to any town meta she might ever of had ever?? I still am not seeing the Katsuki hate at all, it mostly looks like DGB frothing at the mouth (which is quite big might I add) and people just coming out of the woodwork to sheep along.

Also, what is odd here compared to Kats town? And what about that makes Katsuki more likely scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

I assumed that meant inside information.

I understood Katsuki meant what he saw the day before. Except that it was 100% in-your-face obv that I cannot be Kinetic's recruit. ABR's, yes, but not Kinetic.

So when Katsuki answered that I could be Kinetic's recruit, it was clear that he either (1) had no idea what happened the day before, (2) didn't re-read, or (3) was just following orders from his cult leader and disregarding the "day before."

Katsuki's statement of voting me based on "the day before" is completely made up BS.

=============

Could still be tajo, though. It's possible that Katsuki is playing badly and looking worse than tajo. I have a feeling that if tajo was honest-town, he'd know I'm town, I can't help but think he's going after me because his cult wants him too - that's why he gives no reason other than "

secret scum tell

."

[Herodotus]

@ML, why did you target Yosarian last night, when your scumlist of yesterday did not include him?

I think it's pretty clear why ML targeted him. Recruitment protection.

I don't think Seraphim would have been recruited during night 2, because he was already at risk of being lynched/vigged for what looked like an ability conflict.

Kinetic tried to frame me and failed.

< plausible

Next up, Porochaz tunneled on me and nothing else. He was Kinetic's recruit. By tunneling on me, he gave away that the Kinetic cult is after me.

< plausible

They really have a bee in their bonnet about ME.

< it's more likely you were just a "mis"lynch

Which means that there is definitely ONE (and much less probably TWO) player today that is a Kinetic recruit carrying on with the Kinetic-cult plan that I need to be lynched at all cost.

< no

But why would they consider you so high-priority of a target if not because they had information that you were a recruit for the other team? Other than that, you would just be another person for them to try to mislynch.

Also, on which night do you think they tried to recruit you?

Poro was a recruit. At the very least we can agree on that, right?

The town can. It's nice to see you changing your mind.
That you continue to deny porochaz as your recruit is still interfering with your credibility.
You're down by one, you need to outnumber Albert, and you may or may not have evidence that DGb is on Albert's team.

[Kinetic]

I won't admit to something that is obviously a lie. Poro was not my recruit. If he was, I'd ask Flay to modkill him for revealing scum factions. Simple. As. That.

[DrippingGoofball]

But why would they consider you so high-priority of a target if not because they had information that you were a recruit for the other team?

I don't know. I don't know why I'd be such a high priority mislynch for them. You'd figure they'd spread their net wider if they were into mislynches in general. It's me they're after.

Also, on which night do you think they tried to recruit you?

I may be wrong about them trying to recruit me. It would have to be the night before Kinetic tried to frame me... which would mean Night 1, because he went after me Day 2, if memory serves. If not from failed recruitment, they must be interpreting something wrongly, whether play-based or role-based.

Singling ONE player doesn't make sense unless they believe that they know something.

[Zdenek]

Still reading and letting the game sink in, but I'll be all caught up soon.

Question for all: who has a town read on DGB and why?

If you like the argument that recruits will attack strong players, Tajo is a good choice for a vote, since he's attacked Yos and DGB (albeit, he does have a point about DGB. However, considering her style of play, I'm not sure how good it is; hence my first question).

I am with Ooba and think that Tanarin is probably scum. At the moment, I would go so far as to guess that he was recruited N0.

He starts off complaining about WIFOM in ISO's 2 and 3, and proposing arguments of what from the recruiters we should trust.

He calls Cobbler's claim mysterious, which is an attempt to cast doubt on it without calling it scummy. He does the same thing with Yos: "Something is off with you. Can't place my finger on it, but something is off."

I guess it's null, but for what it's worth in his day one lynch list, he didn't inlcude Porochaz, who was the person he was voting for at the time he made his list. (The problem is that it could be him not remembering who he is suspicious of, but scum usually try to be consistent). He did it again when he unvoted ThAd, but made it seem as though he was unvoting Xvart.

He went back to look at interactions with Porochaz, but didn't really look at how people responded to Herodotus' claim, so it doesn't seem like he was all that interested in actually looking for interactions to incriminate others based on the flip.

Finally there is the potential slip about knowing who recruited Porochaz.

All in all, he is either scum or very lazy town.