Mini 1202 Smalltown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Panacea]

Lol, totally saw the VT role pm quoted out of the corner of my eye, and was like "Wha..?"

VOTE: Hiplop because I see his name EVERYWHERE on this site.

[Panacea]

I know, but "from the corner of my eye," it looked like it was written by someone other than the Mod.

[Panacea]

Thanks a bunch, Hiplop.

[Panacea]

Lol, no worries. So. This is my first non-newbie game, but is RVS normally this... easy? No one's freaking out.

[Panacea]

Hell, yes! L-2 in less than 20 player-posts. Personal record for me.

Charter, what style exactly could you possibly glean from a non-reason-less (and therefor boring ) Random Vote?

UNVOTE: Hiplop, because I have a feeling I'll want it freed up.

[Panacea]

Yes, VT. My sixth is also ongoing. It really isn't much of a "plunge." I've been meaning to, but kept chickening out.

My join date is a bit old. I played my five, then had several unexpected months of V/LA that knocked me into a year's hiatus. But I had to get my fix.

[Panacea]

[quote"

VP

Baltar]@Panacea - in your past games was there a lot of panicking in the RVS?[/quote] Quite a lot. Though that knee-jerk reaction is basically more associated with the Newbie Queue's, I think, so maybe I should have anticipated the lack thereof.

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing. I doubly don't like how you're excited that you're at L-2.

Yeah. You're so right. I'm so excited at the prospect of being at L2. This is sad. The main thing I was looking forward to in a mini-normal was the potential for more humor...

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing.

Sorry, next time I'll "+1" it for you so I'm actually contributing something more meaningful.

I think you're scum.

Did you want a cookie?

I think Balter is your buddy.

He ain't

my

buddy, though there's a 1/8 chance he's someone else's.

Discuss.

So... Keep talking about how you're incorrect?

Yes,

VT

. My sixth is also ongoing. It really isn't much of a "plunge." I've been meaning to, but kept chickening out.

IDK what to think of this, I just picked up on it. It could just be a mistake, but given her reaction to the sample VT role PM, I get the feeling she is trying to allude to her being VT. There would really be no town motivation to do this if it were the case, as preserving PRs should obviously be a priority for town.

Or she got his name wrong... Sorry for the mistake. In my defense, it was 1 something am and that post was the only thing between me and bed. I'd even thought it was witty to put "VT" in his user name, lol. But seriously, Rat (or correct me if you'd prefer something different), that is a disturbing level of reaching on your part... Also, last I checked, Vanilla Townie wasn't a PR. (Oh-em-gee, this is not me claiming or anything, keep your shirt on, Rat. Just responding to your bit on preserving PR's.)

I am inclined to disagree with the read on Vp, but im waiting to hear from charter and for Phoebus to actually say something.

Silly, didn't you hear? Charter says

I'm

the one not saying anything. "+1" is apparently hunky-dory.

[Panacea]

EBWOP: [quote="VP Baltar]@Panacea - in your past games was there a lot of panicking in the RVS?[/quote] Quite a lot. Though that knee-jerk reaction is basically more associated with the Newbie Queue's, I think, so maybe I should have anticipated the lack thereof.

@Budja, I didn't even know I

could

be meta'd quickly.

[Panacea]

OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT..!

@Panacea - in your past games was there a lot of panicking in the RVS?

Quite a lot. Though that knee-jerk reaction is basically more associated with the Newbie Queue's, I think, so maybe I should have anticipated the lack thereof.

Insert key fail.

[Panacea]

Um... A rebuttal is freaking out? To be honest, I'm not really bothered. This flavor isn't a whole lot of fun.

[Panacea]

That was not a rebuttal. It was a blathering mixture of sarcasm and attempts at irony and cutesiness.
If you want me to take a "rebuttal" seriously, trying being slightly more dispassionate.

1) "Rebut:
— vb , -buts , -butting , -butted
( tr ) to refute or disprove, esp by offering a contrary contention or argument."
(World English Dictionary)
2) This game needs sarcasm and attempts at irony.
3) I don't give a Rat's ass if you take what I say seriously, so we're all good there.

Mafia is serious business.

To

you

. It's fun to

me

. Usually. Seriously, in every game I've played, I either indirectly or explicitly say that what matters to me is having fun. It is a game after all. But I'll tone down the impulse to make it less monotonous if it bothers you so much.

Protip: Post restrictions aren't allowed in Mini Normals so if you are faking one it's simply dumb.

Juls, what did you mean by this?

On my "fluff": I come from games where we all joke around a lot. I guess I just got lucky in that. I can only get to my computer late at night, so the majority of my posts are from my iPhone. I can't get too involved posting that way. Anyway, I guess this is just a Newbie-to-non-Newbie culture shock. I'll work on it.

Speaking of, something Hiplop said about charter never playing this nitpicky prompted me to do some meta of my own (ugh... though I hate meta). I found that out of a few of his games, his play here seemed to most resemble (in my opinion) his play in Mini 1152, wherein he was Town.

It's too late tonight to do too much more of this, but I'll make a point to finish Phoebus's M95 Quick and Dirty when I'm more alert and have the time.

[Panacea]

(Mobile and short, but not without content.)

Bujda, do you really think that I use more smilies as Town? I second Beck's request for examples.

[Panacea]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Charter. Nitpicking way too much for page 3. From what i remember; he never played like this, grasping for too many straws, too quickly.

Charter made an observation, he wasn't being nit-picky nor do I think he was grasping at straws.

Baltar's name is VP Baltar. I literally wrote "VT Baltar." I typed one wrong letter. It was clear that I was talking to him, because I answered his question. I really don't know how else I can possibly defend that...

He/she was just "+1"ing everything and not speaking as if it was a post restriction.

Thank you; I was just making sure it wasn't something about the content rules I should know.

Is another defense of Panacea, claiming that he meta'ed Panacea and said that using smilies is a town-tell. I forget exactly what it is called, but using excessive smilies can be a tactic used by scum to soften up townie's impressions of scum. So at this point Budja is also on my scumdar, probably surpassing VP due to the fact that VP's questions have a little more pro-town potential than Budja's crappy meta/smily defense.

Also, I second the request for Panacea's meta that supports her using more smilies as town.

What makes this defense worse is that I post smilies equally in frequency when I'm having fun, regardless of alignment. It's not a tactic or a play style; it's more of a personality thing. That being said, either he did meta me and is lying about what he found, or he didn't meta me and is lying about actually meta'ing me at all. To support this(

win

,

loss

):
Newbie 922

Vanilla, killed N2.

Newbie 890

Vanilla, killed N1.

Newbie 879

Mafia Roleblocker, Survived.

Newbie 868

Mafia Roleblocker, lynched D4.

Newbie 863

Vanilla, lynched D3.

So just to clarify: You don't give a rat's ass about what I think; however you do give one about what others do?
That would be one explanation for why you're offering to tone things down for charter and mentioning the "newbie-to-non-newbie culture shock". Plus, there's also the post asking Budja for examples of play-style difference.

However, if I'm wrong with this and you don't give a rat's ass about what others think as well, please tell me what I'm missing here.

Ummmmm... No. I definitely said this:

If you want me to take a "rebuttal" seriously, trying being slightly more dispassionate.

3) I don't give a Rat's ass

if you take what I say seriously

, so we're all good there.

I care what people think insofar as you are all more experienced than I am with Normals, and if you say my post frequency or style or flavor hinders the game, I'll consider your opinions. However, I was responding to the comment about me needing to change my style so you'll take me seriously. I don't

care

if you take me seriously, as I clearly said, and the distinction effectively kills the cute pointlet you were trying to make.

[Panacea]

Mobile. Dinner and homework first; will return later. This ^^ is Town Phoebus meta from... one of your games I remember. Need a computer. The explanation is exactly what I needed to motivate the change you're looking for. You understand that I don't know my teammates, either, and wasn't taking playstyle change requests from a null-read. A slightly Town feel will suffice, though. More later.

[Panacea]

Damn, this game is obnoxious. I wasn't answering you. I was responding to his conclusion. ON ME. I was building on my own thought, that his meta was inaccurate, whether conscious or not, and supporting that thought. Furthermore, I linked you to every game, not the specific one(s) for which you asked. Chill.

[Panacea]

I thought I could avoid V/LA, but apparently "America's Largest 3-G Network," doesn't extend as far into Oklahoma as I'd anticipated. :/ I'll be back Monday, hopefully Sunday if I can get home early enough. I'm sure someone will call it too convenient to be legitimate or something, and I know it doesn't mean much, but I've never lurked as town or scum; I value sportsmanship too much in rl.

I swear I'll be back and better; much more is standing out to me over the past day than had before.

V/LA now through Sunday.

Will try to post when I go into town and can find wifi.

[Panacea]

Back. Sorry for the delay. I find that it is immensely hard to force myself to post in this game, to be honest.

7. Juls -- I'm going to currently ignore. Fluff ... yes. But seemingly, mostly harmless fluff.

First, what,

exactly

, constitutes "harmless fluff"?

im here. I am having trouble getting into the game, I have been keeping up.

Ah... At the risk of bunching someone's panties, could it be because all of the fun flavor has been effectively bludgeoned to death in this game? Just sayin'...

Seems to me like Beck is being punished for actually trying to scumhunt.

Oooh, perfect transition is perfect.

VOTE: Beck. Charter, how much scumhunting would you say he has actually done?

Posts 1-5: Nothing contributed. RV, experience, comment on charter's sports team, etc.
Posts 6-7: Passes for contribution. Both are defense of Phoebus when Baltar accuses him of following charter. #6 is a softball to Baltar.
Post 8: Disagrees on Juls's town read of Baltar, but refuses to chime in until Charter replies to Baltar and Phoebus says something. However, Charter does in #73. What were you waiting to say, Beck, that needed Charter so much? The same for Phoebus.
Posts 9-10: Contribution; no qualms.
Post 11: "-1." Could you even call that a one-word post?
Post 12: First mention of Hiplop. Defense of Charter. Hiplop vote. Softball to Budja.

The bigger issue I am having is with hiplop, he seems to be trying to make mountains out of molehills.

And "Panacea's sending subliminal messages by swapping a letter," isn't doing that very thing, in your eyes? What exactly was Hip's"molehill"? The comment about Pappums's subliminal message theory being grasping at straws? Because I don't care who you are, that is pretty epic reaching.
Post 13: Lol at votecount (specifically wagons) and promise to look over the game, likes his vote. Unnecessary fluff.
Post 14: (44 minutes later) Recap of votecount. Request for more from charter and Budja. Questions Juls about Baltar. What was the point of #13?
Post 15: Edit.
Post 16: Explains what he's waiting on. *Enter "snarkiness."
Post 17:

I also wanted him to respond to your statement that he always calls you scum but I guess a no response on that is probably a response. if it was BS, he would have said so already

So... it was resolved? Why mention it? Filler.
Post 18: Request for game link, 1 line.
Post 19: Promise to review at computer, 1 line. Btw, what was the point in asking, Beck, if you weren't going to share?
Post 20: "Dirty rat." Fluff.
Post 21: Answers Juls's "Are you scum?" question.
Post 22: "At red light, will find what you want later." (Synopsis, mine.) What was the point?
Post 23: Red light explanation. Pointless.
Post 24: Back to hiplop.
Posts 25-28: Presses Budja; no qualms.
Post 29: 1 line.
Post 30: Back to hiplop.

What happened to hiplop, he goes from accusing charter of OMGUS, than posts 2 fluff posts, than nothing?

Post 31: "I'm married." (Less than 7 hours after accusing hiplop of fluff.)
Post 32: I agree with Juls on this filler question on fluff-posting.
Post 33: Contribution.
Post 34:

he has an issue with charter attacking somebody for fluff posting, but that is because he is posting fluff.

And you're not?

I personally think posting fluff is an attempt to avoid scum hunting, clearly my opinion is different than yours, but it's one of the reasons why I am voting you.

That's a bit contradictory, now that I'm running this iso...
35:

So hiplop/juls scum team? Sounds good to me.

So you like, didn't even mention Juls until she throws suspicion your way. Probably because you've been so focused on hiplop. That being said, she makes a convenient addition to your pre-confirmed-scum team, doesn't it? Kind of a two-birds-one-stone things.
Post 36: Promise to reread Pappums.
Post 37:

Fact: posting filler is not scum hunting.

How does it go? "Cool story"?
Post 38: Attempts to downplay Juls's sentiment on his play being "too jokey-jokey." Too much.
Post 39: (4 minutes later, w/ no one else having said anything between his 38 and 39) Entire post is explanation of his other site. This progresses this game how? And before you say you're defending yourself against Juls's accusation that you're too frivolous, she told Budja literally five minutes before that she'd elaborate on that quality of yours over the weekend.

There was nothing to defend.

At the very least, why were #38 and #39 separated?
Post 40: (11 minutes later) Asks Juls where she plays. Okay, so could 38-40 not have been one post, then?
Post 41-43: Contribution; no qualms.
Posts 44-46: Hiplophiplophiplophiplop.
Post 47: In response to Baltar's

His frustration with both hiplop and Juls reads as disingenuous to me.

, Beck says in #47 that he hadn't

even mentioned Juls much, except when she called [him] out for [his] humor, so throwing her name in there is a head scratcher?

Not quite.Beck had hardly mentioned Juls much

before she voted him

. However, as soon as Juls lays down a vote on Beck, he hits her with the accusation that she isn't doing anything for town, that she's buddying Baltar too hard, and even suggests a Hiplop/Juls scumteam. Before her vote, he hadn't even noticed her at all.
48: Legitimate argument with Baltar. No qualms.
Post 49:

I'm pretty sure he is scum so if I get voted for my play, so be it.

Too much emphasis on the martyr card.
Post 50: No qualms.
51:

so I am asking questions that are not "tough" to you, however I am one of the few actually asking questions.

sorry I don't just sit back and wait for others to do the work for me, I followed up my "softball" question with a better explanation and hip still avoided answering it until I had to push him to do so.

so i'm scummy for asking question, just not tough ones? meh i can live with that cause at least I am doing something.

AtE.
Post 52:

What is worse, somebody who is here asking questions or somebody sitting in the backround not asking any?

I'll tell you what's best, is someone who asks few, pertinent questions instead of a litany of semi-game-relevant ones.
Post 53: The whole thing is an extension of the AtE of his #52. Seriously. Read this.
Post 54: "As am I." Can't we combine these tiny posts that are made within minutes of each other..?!
Post 55: Spreads suspicion all over the place in one post. Odd. Most of his posts have been hyper-focused on one player.

Conclusion:

Perhaps I'm guilty of fluff, but Beck is absolutely guilty of spam. But that's beside the point. It seems like a massive portion of Beck's posts are lamentations about hiplop not responding to his questions. From my perspective, he's just trying to keep his vote on what he sees as an easy lynch. He expresses suspicion of Juls, even suggests that she's scumbug #2, but doesn't even build a case on her because he's apparently got his hands tied until hiplop responds all the way to his questions. Then he mentions later to Baltar that he never said much about Juls.

There's more, but it's 1 am, I've been catching up with this since I got home two hours ago. Good night!

[Panacea]

Yes I never said much about Juls cause she wasn't really on my radar that much

But in your #35, you suggest a hiplop/Juls scumteam. Doesn't that make her your #2 suspect?

VOTE: Beck. Charter, how much scumhunting would you say he has actually done?

Plenty. How much scumhunting would you say you have actually done? More or less than Beck?

I see what looks like scumhunting. How genuine does it feel to you? I can say that yes, I've posted way less, but at least they've for the most part counted. Beck had 56 at the time I iso'ed him, and a chunk of them were filler. Is that better? And I'll give you that. I know I haven't contributed much. I really am sorry for that, and I'm trying to turn it around.

Pan, you call me out for focusing on 1 player, however you haven focused on any player really

I know. I haven't posted as much. It's going to change now.

I REALLY hate with all of my being that Panacea just jumped on the second leading wagon with her first "attempt" at scumhunting. It looks like she saw the vote count and decided that she wanted to be on the Beck wagon so she went through and read all his posts.

I guess it could look that way. But I know I'm not scum. I said before the Beck wagon that after checking into Phoebus's and Charter's games, I felt them town (I would also like to add that Phoebus's #6 adds to that read). If Baltar is scum, he's really good scum, and I'll check into his meta when I have more time. For right now, he reads more town. The only things I haven't liked about Juls's play so far was bringing maf-drama into the game (it's just uncomfortable, and I agree with Beck's hint at AtE) and the weird reaction to Beck's question of where she played last. The whole prostitute image just seemed extreme. Neither of those are much of a scumtell, though.

This leaves on my scum list Budja, who's posts are pretty null either way, Pappums, who, like Baltar is good scum if he is scum and who I intend to iso and meta soon, Hiplop, who I can agree does tend to recycle arguments right down to word choice, but who I at the time thought might still be town (I really dislike #224, which wasn't made at the time), and Beck, case is already listed. That being said, there was a 50% chance my main suspect would be on one of the (at the time of Juls's post) 2 main wagons in the first place.

Mostly parroting what I have said about Beck

I don't think I'm "parroting" at all. (Though maybe I'm just used to the extreme of the "+1" thing. ) I do agree with you on some of your points with Beck, yeah. Are the tells off limits because you mentioned them? They're still there. I would think it'd be parroting if I just came in, said "I agree," but didn't offer any investigation of my own.

If there is one thing I can't tolerate it is buddying and it makes me think she and hiplop could very well be buddies.

Wait, are you saying I'm buddying up to hiplop? How? The case on hiplop is a legitimate, and I'm not defending him. My only mention of hiplop in that post was to point out in which posts Beck brings him up. Just observation.

I think I want a Panacea lynch more due to her lack of scumhunting and the information we glean from it.

Honestly, I can agree with this. If we get down to deadline and no one's come right out and yelled "I'm scum!" I'd say lynch me. I think I pretty much dug a permanent hole with my earlier lack of content, and would probably be mislynched later anyway. Not to mention that I've had two wagons D1, the first of which was pretty quick, and I'd be willing to bet there was scum on that one, at least. I'd prefer we wait til closer to deadline, though, and I have no intention of self-voting.

Ughhhhhh, so I can't connect to the server to get to page 10. No more quotes on this post, I guess.

Just to clarify, yes, my join date is in 2009. I played 5 games from then til early May, 2010. I wound up needing a month of V/LA, so I stopped playing until last month, June, 2011. No, I'm not a newbie and I hate the newbie excuse anyway, but this is my first non-newbie game, and after a year's hiatus, and though I was in denial at first, I'm clearly trying to acclimate to the non-newbie groove at the moment. Don't go light, but do keep it in mind.

@ Pappums: I mean I love this site and playing mafia because it can be so much fun when you get everyone having a good time. It doesn't all have to be about wining. My problem with this particular game is that it is so aggressive and tense and all-around fun-less that I'm having a terribly hard time forcing myself to sit and drag through it.

[Panacea]

No, I am saying you are buddying me and parroting my reads on Beck. I can't really explain in clear terms the feeling I get when someone out of the blue has the same reads as I do. Especially when those reads are on the second largest wagon. It makes me think you and hiplop could be partners.

I disagree. Isn't the point of buddying to be super-friendly to a player so if you die and flip scum, the other player looks guilty? What about the post of which you're speaking jives with that? And while we're talking about buddying, a lot of your earlier play looks like Baltar-buddying. Just an observation.

Before I forget, Beck, you said in your #19 that you'd look over the charter/Baltar game when you got to a computer. Did you ever do it?

I don't care that it is charter, I wish it was actually somebody else, the facts are there, you are doing nothing to help find/catch scum.

That's odd... Why do you wish it was somebody else?

unvote, vote: Budja

Care to elaborate?

I made my vote on Pans. It is still there. I have nothing else to add to it mainly because sans one post she hasn't been here since.

Sorry, but I have a job and school. The latter just ended until next month, so I should be more available than I have been.

ULTIMATUM: Next post you show me where I did this or admit you are WRONG or my vote goes back to you and it does not move for the rest of the day.

How much of this vote-move would be because you think he's scum, and how much would be on the basis of a LaL policy?

[Panacea]

UNVOTE: Beck, because I'm not confident enough to think he's the best lynch anymore.

The Juls/Beck thing is... obnoxiously hard to put into a "scum" or "town" box. Beck's questions seem a lot more genuine to me now, I guess because he's knee-deep in Julstuff. To that end, Juls's argument seems town on the surface, but I can't decide if the ultimatum is scummy or just anti-town, and it feels like a flair for the dramatic.

Either way, I do agree that this debate, if town/town, is eclipsing scum. No, I'm not buddying you, Juls, you just said it first.

On the other hand, has anyone ever seen a bus to this degree of enthusiasm?

Anyway, general reflections. Will comb through the walls when I get off tonight, and am with a computer.

[Panacea]

Nope. I just had to come in for a 12 hour shift. If Juls's ultimatum had a profound impact, I didn't want my vote stuck on him for such a long time before I could sit and read more thoroughly.

[Panacea]

I am pretty sure no one but Juls is going to care about that ultimatum and will pay no attention to it, pretty sure.

Sorry, used to more erratic players.

And you did flipflop on Beck, that's what "Beck's questions seem a lot more genuine to me now" seems to me like.

Nah, he just seems more genuine in the Beck/Juls debacle than he has yet. He's by no means cleared in my book, but he's moving down in scumminess.

My V/LA has just been extended from July 15-25 due to a death in the family

My condolences, Juls.

Panacea > hiplop > Beck


More later (possibly).

So... Is it later yet? I'd like to hear your thoughts on Beck.

@Beck: From your post #12, what were Hiplop's "molehills"?

Before I forget, Beck, you said in your #19 that you'd look over the charter/Baltar game when you got to a computer. Did you ever do it?

Okay, so now I'm going to admit my nerdiness. Going to the HP7; pt.2 premier tonight, so I might not be able to post again until tomorrow. Might be able to sneak in a limited mobile, though.

[Panacea]

Gotcha, thank you.

Also, no way! But I'm going to be in line for 5 hours before it starts, so...

[Panacea]

Hey, guys, I'm really sorry. I simply am not enjoying this game. I've tried sticking it out for as long as I could, but I'm affecting the win condition of my teammates by not being able to bypass the surprising level of severity and aggression enough to post. So I've PM'ed the Mod to get out.

I hate it when players replace out of games because I hate quitters. I've honestly tried to be better, but this is not worth one win.

Again, I'm sorry. Good luck to my (hopefully more severe, aggressive) replacement.

[Panacea]

I just don't like quitters, and I like them even less when they tell the Mod but can't own up to it in thread. I suppose you're all free to ask me questions until the Mod makes it official?