Mini 1202 Smalltown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Phoebus]

Vote: Panacea

[Phoebus]

I think you're scum. I think Balter is your buddy. Discuss.

+1

[Phoebus]

You don't know the difference between following and agreeing?

If anything charter followed Phoebus since phoebus started the vote on Pan, not the other way around.

Even the way he said "I like your style"when he voted, was a jokingly attempt at following.

+1

[Phoebus]

@Panacea - in your past games was there a lot of panicking in the RVS?

Quite a lot. Though that knee-jerk reaction is basically more associated with the Newbie Queue's, I think, so maybe I should have anticipated the lack thereof.

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing. I doubly don't like how you're excited that you're at L-2.

Yeah. You're so right. I'm so excited at the prospect of being at L2. This is sad. The main thing I was looking forward to in a mini-normal was the potential for more humor...

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing.

Sorry, next time I'll "+1" it for you so I'm actually contributing something more meaningful.

I think you're scum.

Did you want a cookie?

I think Balter is your buddy.

He ain't

my

buddy, though there's a 1/8 chance he's someone else's.

Discuss.

So... Keep talking about how you're incorrect?

Yes,

VT

. My sixth is also ongoing. It really isn't much of a "plunge." I've been meaning to, but kept chickening out.

IDK what to think of this, I just picked up on it. It could just be a mistake, but given her reaction to the sample VT role PM, I get the feeling she is trying to allude to her being VT. There would really be no town motivation to do this if it were the case, as preserving PRs should obviously be a priority for town.

Or she got his name wrong... Sorry for the mistake. In my defense, it was 1 something am and that post was the only thing between me and bed. I'd even thought it was witty to put "VT" in his user name, lol. But seriously, Rat (or correct me if you'd prefer something different), that is a disturbing level of reaching on your part... Also, last I checked, Vanilla Townie wasn't a PR. (Oh-em-gee, this is not me claiming or anything, keep your shirt on, Rat. Just responding to your bit on preserving PR's.)

I am inclined to disagree with the read on Vp, but im waiting to hear from charter and for Phoebus to actually say something.

Silly, didn't you hear? Charter says

I'm

the one not saying anything. "+1" is apparently hunky-dory.

So... is all of that

you

freaking out?
Or was that pretty much par for the course for you?

[Phoebus]

Um... A rebuttal is freaking out?

That was not a rebuttal. It was a blathering mixture of sarcasm and attempts at irony and cutesiness.
If you want me to take a "rebuttal" seriously, trying being slightly more dispassionate. Throwing in a ton of, what are usually, defense mechanisms doesn't help your case.

--------------------------------------------

it means you are reacting to my comments, without any pressure so there is no need to actually vote you just yet.

This could be put a little differently ...I don't know about the "pressure" comment... however:
+1


--------------------------------------------

Can anyone tell me how to make the hr tags work?

[Phoebus]

Panacea

:
So just to clarify: You don't give a rat's ass about what

I

think; however you do give one about what others do?
That would be one explanation for why you're offering to tone things down for charter and mentioning the "newbie-to-non-newbie culture shock". Plus, there's also the post asking Budja for examples of play-style difference.

However, if I'm wrong with this and you don't give a rat's ass about what others think as well, please tell me what I'm missing here.

---

Baltar

: Grazie!

---

I find your interactions with her appear like you were subtly trying to steer her away from the way she was acting. Your questions to her appeared to me to be an attempt to right the sinking ship that was Panacea, the same way CML tried to with Amrun in Mini 1120. And regardless of whether I am comparing you to one person in one game, it still looks exactly the same, and I still have my suspicions about it.

+1

[Phoebus]

I care what people think insofar as you are all more experienced than I am with Normals, and if you say my post frequency or style or flavor hinders the game, I'll consider your opinions. However, I was responding to the comment about me needing to change my style so you'll take me seriously. I don't

care

if you take me seriously, as I clearly said, and the distinction effectively kills the cute pointlet you were trying to make.

So you don't

care

if I don't take you seriously (as a rule? in a vacuum?) because of your posting style and content. Right?
However would you

care

if I said that your posting style prevents me from taking you seriously; which, in turn, hinders my ability to play the game well?
This seems to be what I should be taking from the snippet I quoted. As long as your style doesn't hinder the game, it doesn't matter if you're taken seriously or not?

Here's how I see it: As a member of an uninformed majority who knows only about himself, I have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. This is the only way I can play the game well enough to help my team; and yes, I

am

on a team; I just don't know my teammates. They way you're posting, it's mostly chaff and is

majorly not helpful

from a town perspective. So if you're playing for the town team, you're a teammate of mine for all intents and purposes and in this instance, with your blather, you are

not

helping the team. If you're playing for the opposition, however, you're doing a good job. If you

are

playing for the town team, then you may want to consider what your teammates are saying and I'm saying that it's hard for me to take you seriously when a "rebuttal" of yours consists of a blathering mixture of sarcasm and attempts at irony and cutesiness.


Speaking of which, let's look to your rebuttal for a moment. Something for which you provided a very handy definition:

1) "Rebut:
— vb , -buts , -butting , -butted
( tr ) to refute or disprove, esp by offering a contrary contention or argument."
(World English Dictionary)

Let me elaborate on one word in there:

ar·gu·ment
   [ahr-gyuh-muhnt]

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate
3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point
5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

Source

Now Let's look at your "rebuttal":
(Please correct me if I make an error in assessing some of your intentions below.)

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing. I doubly don't like how you're excited that you're at L-2.

Yeah. You're so right. I'm so excited at the prospect of being at L2.

This is sad. The main thing I was looking forward to in a mini-normal was the potential for more humor...

Sarcasm. Emphasis mine.

I don't like how you're posting a ton but saying nothing.

Sorry, next time I'll "+1" it for you so I'm actually contributing something more meaningful.

Sarcasm. No emphasis needed.

I think you're scum.

Did you want a cookie?

Attempts at cutesiness.

I think Balter is your buddy.

He ain't

my

buddy, though there's a 1/8 chance he's someone else's.

First (and only) possible fact. Factual value: currently undetermined.

Discuss.

So... Keep talking about how you're incorrect?

Snideness.

Yes,

VT

. My sixth is also ongoing. It really isn't much of a "plunge." I've been meaning to, but kept chickening out.

IDK what to think of this, I just picked up on it. It could just be a mistake, but given her reaction to the sample VT role PM, I get the feeling she is trying to allude to her being VT. There would really be no town motivation to do this if it were the case, as preserving PRs should obviously be a priority for town.

Or she got his name wrong... Sorry for the mistake. In my defense, it was 1 something am and that post was the only thing between me and bed. I'd even thought it was witty to put "VT" in his user name, lol. But seriously, Rat (or correct me if you'd prefer something different), that is a disturbing level of reaching on your part... Also, last I checked, Vanilla Townie wasn't a PR. (Oh-em-gee, this is not me claiming or anything, keep your shirt on, Rat. Just responding to your bit on preserving PR's.)

Sarcasm (notice eyeroll).
Weak defense: the T and the P on the keyboard are far enough away that even at 1am in the morning (how does this matter anyway?n), it is not an obvious typo.

Disclaimer: I do not currently think that there is much to be read into her typo. I personally think that it

was

some odd typo. That said, I did want to comment on the distance between the two keys, in case it did become pertinent later. I am mostly using this case to point out how the "rebuttal" holds no water as far as providing reasoned arguments goes.

I am inclined to disagree with the read on Vp, but im waiting to hear from charter and for Phoebus to actually say something.

Silly, didn't you hear? Charter says

I'm

the one not saying anything. "+1" is apparently hunky-dory.

Sarcasm. No emphasis needed.


As an addendum to this: It's my opinion that use of smilies is mostly a null tell. I think that it's a more global individual trait that remains mostly constant but may vary in usage based on mood.

That said, I'm not particularly impressed with what Panacea's put forth so far and I'm perfectly happy with my vote staying where it is.

Panacea

: Your rebuttal, as posted above, strongly

implies

a differing point of view. However, please tell me where there is any one of:
3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point
5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

Please tell me where this is a "rebuttal"?

---

Baltar

: I am not ignoring you. More to come after I've had some food.

[Phoebus]

I'm checking in to say that it's been a busy couple of days. I will catch up tomorrow.

[Phoebus]

I promised that I'd post today and I'm not reneging on that.
I have done a quick read and these are brief thoughts/comments.

There may be something more substantial later. However, if this turns out satisfactorily, there might not:

1. I'm still happy with my vote on Panacea. It's not a matter of whether she's contributing fluff or not, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't do random votes. I usually hold back until I see something worthy of comment and voting. Her "oh it's not as crazy here as it was in the newbie games!" line of talking made me want to vote for her. Something about that did not sit right with me. Her subsequent sarcastic and somewhat trite reactions had me content with my vote where it is/was.

2. I've +1'd this before. I did not like the way VP Baltar seemed to be coaching Panacea away from being reactive the way she was, early in the game. I also +1'd the idea that Baltar and Panacea are scum together, because of this.

3. That said, just because charter seemed to be agreeing with stuff that I said/did to Panacea, doesn't mean that I think he's a good guy. In fact, I think, in some ways, that his reaction to Panacea is almost the opposite to Baltar's. Rather than coaching, he seemed to snap at her in a way that a partner might press a partner, with a potential bus later. In a curtailed game with 9 players, this strategy (busing a partner early) might work... especially if it gains street cred with the town. I read this game as lacking any other power roles beyond Mafia... based on what the mod said. Therefore, I can foresee a situation where a busing handled correctly might win someone a game. Also, notice, now, that charter's vote is no longer on Panacea. So maybe the moment has passed.

4. I get the feeling that either one of charter/Baltar has successfully diverted attention from Panacea to other targets, which is now resulting in the current general confusion/cross-fire.
I can foresee one of three scum combinations at this time:
--> Panacea + Baltar
--> Panacea + charter
--> Baltar + charter (this one, somewhat unlikely... but could be possible)

If anyone else is scum(my), well I haven't really caught on to much.

5. Beck: seems to be trying to be helpful but is, perhaps, doing it the wrong way.
Similar with pappums rat... though between the Baltar/charter/hiplop/p-rat sniping going on... p-rat seems to be have said and done things that I can see rubbing some the wrong way.

6. hiplop... has been fluffy... yes. I can see that a wagon is building on him. Based on my current thoughts, I am unlikely to want to switch to him. However, three things might change this.
i) He does/says something absolutely scummy.
ii) He has already done/said something absolutely scummy and I see this when I re-read properly.
iii) I get tired enough of random Day 1-ness and/or we get near enough to a lynch deadline that I would be OK with him swinging. As much as I detest day starts, handled properly, we can usually get information from them after the fact. Sometimes this means lynching a townsperson (which is what I am categorising hiplop as, at this time).

7. Juls -- I'm going to currently ignore. Fluff ... yes. But seemingly, mostly harmless fluff.

8. Budja... I have little to nothing on... this might either be very clever or innocuous and mostly unhelpful but not yet harmful.


To sum up: I'd like to see how things develop/transpire between my leading trio, before I switch to anything/anyone else...


LET'S LYNCH PANACEA NAO~~~~!!!!

[Phoebus]

Lynch preference:

Panacea > hiplop > Beck


More later (possibly).

[Phoebus]

People can make good cases and still be succinct.

+1

[Phoebus]

1) The Juls-Beck fight makes my eyes bleed still and I've lost any tail of reads from it just because it's such a spam fest. You guys need to cool it with the tit-for-tat because it's impossible to tell the difference between genuine frustration and thread spamming to kill town interest in the game at this point.

+1

Phoebus - You're like the sideline king here. What do you think of Panacea's change of posting style?

Panacea has said and done nothing that makes me want to back off. Can we just lynch her now? Please??
(And yes, thanks for the hrs)

[Phoebus]

I don't find him suspicious right now. Just useless.
I don't particularly like his excuses for inactivity but he's not lynchworthy. Yet.

[Phoebus]

ffs

[Phoebus]

Who isn't trying?

Really? Really...!

[Phoebus]

Honestly, we probably just need a lynch at this point because we have too much dead weight to get any good information out of discussion. We need to lynch someone and start analyzing the wagon or at least using that as a catalyst to talk more.

+1

In an ideal game, every player would be making 11% of the game's posts (unachieved by 66% of players and not even nearly by 55% of players), and have posted about 43.6 times by now. Clearly, many players aren't doing their fair share and should be pressured to contribute.

What is it they say? Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics?

In this analysis and the context of

this

game, these numbers are inflated by Beck's verboseness. I am not saying that Beck has been entirely unhelpful, but he has been relatively hyperactive. Accusing other people of not "doing their fair share", by using Beck as a yardstick, is disingenuous. I realise some people might go for quantity versus quality; however I tend to value attentiveness and brevity when making a point. It tends to make more impact, in my opinion. Just because someone isn't posting, doesn't necessarily mean s/he is being inattentive. So please put the numbers away for now.

[Phoebus]

Man... this exploded. Relatively.
I'm going to address two questions aimed at me first. Then, I will read through properly and summarise, if necessary.

[Phoebus]

My apologies. The lack of access after my last post was unforeseen.

I said I'd answer two questions.

Well, both of them dealt with Panacea and subsequently, Psyche:


Here's my answer:

Panacea did not do anything at all, that makes me want to put my vote elsewhere. Least of all, the way she decided to replace out.
Then Psyche came in and replaced her - began with disingenuous statistics, backed off and resorted to calling people "stupid".

None of this makes me want to vote anyone else. I'm happy with a Psyche lynch.


Baltar: You also asked me about my thoughts on a Beck lynch.

My preference is still: Psyche > Hiplop > Beck > anyone else.

I

will

, however, go read the post explosion and get back to you. Last night's lack of access prevented me from doing that.
Will check back in in a little bit.

[Phoebus]

If Psyche winds up being town, suspicion that weak is going to look very bad for you.

I am aware of this. However:

On day one, a lynch on ANYONE is better than a no lynch. Even if you lynch the most awesomist powerrole, it's much better than a no lynch.

+1

This is my point of view as well and based on the options available and Panacea/Psyche's actions, I am fine with my current choice.

Further:

Really have no idea why I didn't do that six hours ago, but... there you have it, what Charter actually thinks of this game. Phoebus and Pappums for scum....

Should I take that you're basing this on my first quote of you in this post?
If you aren't and you have said something more substantial... I've totally missed it. And believe me... I looked.

---

Phoebus really misrepped me there. My statistics spiel was more weak thinking than "disingenuous". What makes it disingenuous?

Even more inaccurate is claiming that all I've done to defend my behavior is call people stupid. I'm pretty sure I've done at least a little more than that. A little.

I concede on one and a half points here.
Calling your statistics "disingenuous" was inaccurate. One cannot determine disingenuousness without determining intent. And even then, it may simply be weak thinking, like you said. However, your predecessor rubbed me the wrong way. Your beginning with statistics and back-pedalling so quickly, combined with how you fingered your predecessor as being potentially scummy -- all contribute to me being happy with my vote.

The half a point I concede is the second one... Yes.. maybe you've done a little more than call people stupid. However, none of it makes me want to change my mind.

*shrug*

[Phoebus]

Yeah, im having a hard time getting in the game; becks posting style doesnt mesh well with mine and it just makes me angry, i usually play MUCH better than this, which is upsetting

So not even anger is going to spur you into action? You're going to be a sock puppet?
You're upset but you simply don't care?

[Phoebus]

I am here. I am tempted to vote Bob. I will abstain for now.

Second possibility(ies): hiplop/Pappum.

[Phoebus]

My apologies. Work has been busy.
Tomorrow's my last day for the next two and a half weeks and I should be able to catch up then.