Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[hiphop]

That's 4. Seacore call it gut, but I think Hn has a high chance of being town.

[hiphop]

You know what, info helps town. So I am going to out and say it. If someone transfers money before they are lynched or nk'd, and it hasn't taken effect when they die, the money is still transferred.

[Seacore]

Good to know, but I'm not sure how to use it.

How about, the lynch target, each day, transfers all of their money to me.
That night, I transfer all their money to one of my town reads.

[hiphop]

It doesn't take effect until the next day.

[Seacore]

Then I'm not sure how to use it, since it makes me a huge target.

[hiphop]

Well, we should be safe tonight with me having the kill, and hopefully yesterday's was grabbed by WLC. However to get around that for future use people should just send the money to one of their town reads.

[Seacore]

Yeah, definitely. Unless we can think of a better plan, we give the lynch an opportunity to send the money and they don't declare who they send it to. It makes tracking the money hard, but I think that ship will have sailed by Day 3 anyway.

[hiphop]

I think it would be better if the person who gets them claims it the next day, instead of the lynchee telling us who he sent too. This way scum can't target the targettee.

[Seacore]

Agreed.

It just makes me nervous not know what the scum can do. Obviously someone out there can steal from the auction house. But what if there's some out there that can steal from us, or if they kill us take our stuff, etc.

[hiphop]

Lady Lambdadelta-Please explain why mal is any more town than I am. And yes I am voting him, because I believe him to be scum.

[hiphop]

unvote

[Ethos]

I can support a Midnight lynch though I strongly oppose to a HN vigging for obvious reasons. I still am a firm believer of Icey needing to die at some point.

Ghostlin, don't waste your investigation on LLD please. Read bobsnoxs attitude and particpation in the WLC scum lynch and LLDs overall tone and you'll realize she's likely town.

The idea of having the lynch player transfer funds to Seacore or another strong town read is a great idea and I'm struggling to find any potential downside to it so we should go ahead with it.

Vote: Midnight

[IceGuy]

Vig Voting and Vig direction allows the scum to manipulate the vig into killing town.

And it means that you can't read based on kills.

Reading kills is unreliable and pretty useless. Vig voting gives us a second lynch vote which we badly need, given the Newman and Midnight inconsistencies.

My strongest scum read is Icey by far, his actions throughout today have included obvious contradictions, changing of reads with minimal reasoning and insistence that Newman is scum when he was very quick to drop suspicion of Newman earlier in the day when the wagon seemed like it might die down.

I didn't drop suspicion of him. I just changed my vote because of your chainsaw defense of Newman, and because he had an explanation which seemed consistent at the time being.

I brought up my feelings on the lack of an SK twice, because it was brought up twice. I feel that an SK is unlikely due to the setup. An SK has an adherent disadvantage from the get go. He can't die and win (as town/scum can). He has to kill EVERYONE else. To offset that disadvantage, he gets unlimited NK's. If he has to bid every day for a NK, then his chances of winning become almost none (IMO).

Since somebody can steal money, maybe we have a "robber" who doesn't need to kill and/or survive, but simply amass a certain amount of money at some point.

If I get the kill, I am not killing newman. Catching up.

Because I don't think he is scum.

How can he NOT be scum? He invented a bid history and had to continuously change it so it fits the example PM, and then there's this:

Yes I lied. I have come clean about everything. The "deleting of mod PMs" was a part of my lie. I was frustrated at the time, yadda yadda.

If he lied about deleting mod PMs, why didn't he just get his bids, investments, etc. from them, at least after we called him out for his first lie? I already explained why his "mistakes" aren't honest mistakes.

Anyway, Newman is scum, Midnight is if he doesn't give a very good explanation, and at least one of LLD and Ethos is.

[malpascp]

Just catchuped this. I think we should wait to know who gets NK before planing our night actions. I'm absolutelly fine with HM and MS dropping dead. They seem to be the obvious choice, but usually the simplest solution is the best.

MS is at L-2. He should stay like that until we have enough info to decide who we lynch, who Seacore wants to NK, and if everyone trusts him (I do).

I think this is a pertinent issue:

@Everyone: do you trust Seacore do direct the NK?

[Ethos]

I didn't drop suspicion of him. I just changed my vote because of your chainsaw defense of Newman, and because he had an explanation which seemed consistent at the time being.

You continue to attempt to push this blatant lie. You're stating that you suspect me for chainsaw defending Newman against you which would infer that I attacked you for the sole reason that you were attacking Newman however this clearly isn't the case considering I had voted you prior to it. This exact point has been brought up multiple times however you seem content to ignore it and continue to attempt to play the victim card in the situation.

@Everyone: do you trust Seacore do direct the NK?

It depends on what you mean by trust.

Do I trust that Seacore will suggest and propose the kill that he believes will best help the town, yes.
Do I trust that the person he suggests to kill will actually best help the town, no.

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.6

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Midnight's Sorrow (5): Seacore, ChaosOmega, RedCoyote, HellloooNewman, Ethos
HellloooNewman (2): malpascp, Ghostlin

Not voting (5): PeregrineV, Midnight's Sorrow, IceGuy, Lady Lambdadelta, hiphop

Deadline is July 20th, at 1:00pm EST (site time).
Coutdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-07-20 13:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
17	Night-kill x 1	$50	$190	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-13 13:00:00)
21	Watcher x 1	$20	$68	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-13 13:00:00)

Spoiler: Abridged Ability Glossary

• Night-kill (Targeted):
  Choose another player. That player will die unless protected.
• Watcher (Targeted):
  Choose another player. You will be informed which players (if any) visited that player during the Night, but not the nature of each visit. However, other abilities may modify the result of the report. A roleblocked ability activation is not considered a visit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hip, mal town is a STRONG gut read for me. I want to know your reasons for why he's scum?

[Magua]

Breaking News

Midnight's Sorrow has been prodded.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vig Voting and Vig direction allows the scum to manipulate the vig into killing town.

And it means that you can't read based on kills.

Reading kills is unreliable and pretty useless. Vig voting gives us a second lynch vote which we badly need, given the Newman and Midnight inconsistencies.

My strongest scum read is Icey by far, his actions throughout today have included obvious contradictions, changing of reads with minimal reasoning and insistence that Newman is scum when he was very quick to drop suspicion of Newman earlier in the day when the wagon seemed like it might die down.

I didn't drop suspicion of him. I just changed my vote because of your chainsaw defense of Newman, and because he had an explanation which seemed consistent at the time being.

I brought up my feelings on the lack of an SK twice, because it was brought up twice. I feel that an SK is unlikely due to the setup. An SK has an adherent disadvantage from the get go. He can't die and win (as town/scum can). He has to kill EVERYONE else. To offset that disadvantage, he gets unlimited NK's. If he has to bid every day for a NK, then his chances of winning become almost none (IMO).

Since somebody can steal money, maybe we have a "robber" who doesn't need to kill and/or survive, but simply amass a certain amount of money at some point.

If I get the kill, I am not killing newman. Catching up.

Because I don't think he is scum.

How can he NOT be scum? He invented a bid history and had to continuously change it so it fits the example PM, and then there's this:

Yes I lied. I have come clean about everything. The "deleting of mod PMs" was a part of my lie. I was frustrated at the time, yadda yadda.

If he lied about deleting mod PMs, why didn't he just get his bids, investments, etc. from them, at least after we called him out for his first lie? I already explained why his "mistakes" aren't honest mistakes.

Anyway, Newman is scum, Midnight is if he doesn't give a very good explanation,

and at least one of LLD and Ethos is.

Vote: IceGuy

3 Posts to explain this read. If I'm not satisfied, I'll be driving your lynch today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So, I OMGUS'd the 3rd or 4th one on my wagon?

You OMGUS'd the only person on your wagon who isn't conftown.

See, this is what I'm worried about.

Bobsnox (aka the person I replaced) was on the wagon at this time. Which is something Ethos so graciously pointed out for you in his next post.

You are effectively calling Bob confirmed town in this post. How does one go from "confirmed town" to "one of these two is scum"?

[IceGuy]

Vote: IceGuy

3 Posts to explain this read. If I'm not satisfied, I'll be driving your lynch today.

You replaced into a neutral-leaning-scum slot, immediately attacking a (almost) confirmed town power role with invented arguments and proclaim another, neutral-leaning-scum player, as town. Newman turns from neutral to scum in two posts without any other posts in between (#389 and #391), and you are against vig voting because you want to "read based on kills", which is pretty much impossible due to the WIFOM potential.

And your OMGUS vote in this post, of course, after the whole "let's kill the cop" scheme failed.

So, I OMGUS'd the 3rd or 4th one on my wagon?

You OMGUS'd the only person on your wagon who isn't conftown.

See, this is what I'm worried about.

Bobsnox (aka the person I replaced) was on the wagon at this time. Which is something Ethos so graciously pointed out for you in his next post.

You are effectively calling Bob confirmed town in this post. How does one go from "confirmed town" to "one of these two is scum"?

Read the post, like, two posts below that one. I corrected myself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

+1 scum points to IceGuy for the "OMGUS" routine.

This isn't about you calling ME scum in particular.

You are indicating a connection between myself and Ethos, in which one of us is scum.

How do you explain the connection?

Further, OMGUS is a buzz word that scum uses to deflect town pressure back onto them. Sorry.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, your argument that NK analysis when the KILLER IS KNOWN is "WIFOM" only makes me feel worse about you.

[Ethos]

LLD covered it fairly well in the above two posts but your usage of 'OMGUS' this game has been appalling, you attempted to attack Newman for voting you calling it an OMGUS while then proceeding to OMGUS me and state that LLD is OMGUS'ing you.

Essenetially you're attempting to state that OMGUS is a scum-tell while committing it yourself. You also continue to ignore the fact that it's very obvious that no chainsaw defence occured but continue to attempt to use that as reasoning for your suspicions.

[IceGuy]

+1 scum points to IceGuy for the "OMGUS" routine.

This isn't about you calling ME scum in particular.

Then what is it about?

You are indicating a connection between myself and Ethos, in which one of us is scum.

How do you explain the connection?

I'm not indicating a connection between the two of you. I only think that at least one of you is scum. And I could see both of you being scum in different factions.

Also, please explain your behavior (attacking the cop and so on).

Further, OMGUS is a buzz word that scum uses to deflect town pressure back onto them. Sorry.

So...what would it be when I would vote you because of this post?

Also, your argument that NK analysis when the KILLER IS KNOWN is "WIFOM" only makes me feel worse about you.

Who says that the killer will be known? Scum can still snipe the NK...

Essenetially you're attempting to state that OMGUS is a scum-tell while committing it yourself.

I didn't OMGUS anybody. Newman and LLD voted me after I said "hey, you are scum because of <reasons>". I voted you when you kept defending Newman and attacking me on spurious grounds while simultaneously proclaiming others as town, and Newman made a post which seemed to clear up the inconsistencies, so you became my top scumread.

You also continue to ignore the fact that it's very obvious that no chainsaw defence occured but continue to attempt to use that as reasoning for your suspicions.

Again: yes, you were suspicious of me before I started being suspicious Newman, but your reason (given way after, by the way) for that was simply that I didn't do anything particularly towny on D1. You only went into full attack mode after I started pointing out flaws in Newman's claims, and you stayed with that although Newman basically claimed scum.