Dr Who - Game over

[The Rufflig]

Howdy.

I've made a quick read through of the game and the two things that stuck out at me the most are completely useless.

1) iamausername's favorite monster was the candyman??? Seriously? UGH!!!

2) I've played with Zang twice before (he was town both times). I don't recognize the Zang I see playing here; he isn't lurking and he is producing some content. Which doesn't help at all since someone just sent in a daykill on him.

Oh well, time to do a second read through.

[The Rufflig]

@zang: You made four posts in that second game. The last post of which had you asking how you were lurking more than three other players. Yeah, instead of providing content you were asking how you were worse than others. In this particular game there are actually people providing less content than yourself which comes as a great shock to me. I'm not sure if you changed your play style, are actually interested in this theme, or scum trying to make it past day 2. What I can say is that I don't have a good read on you.
------

Anyway, I completed another read through and I'd like to share a few actual thoughts this time around. In alphabetical:

ant: ant's vote on MoI appears dependent on Zang flipping scum in spite of ant's protest to the contrary. If ant is telling the truth then he must be keeping back some other reasons for his vote on MoI. I noted his use of 'yet', but I can't make more than a molehill of it personally. leaning a bit negative

bv310: Not enough content - no real opinion.

ces: Well, his fos and votes help, but I would really like to see some reasoning. I'm not so good at connecting the dots. Neutralish

hop: I wasn't sure what to make of hoppster at first. True he was firing off a lot of questions, but he wasn't taking any stances initially -- that bothered me a lot. At the moment, I'm willing to chalk it up to his play style. leaning positive

iam: iam is brief and to the point - I try to be but I frequently end up quite wordy. I might call nexus probably townie - but I don't understand super obvious. Neutral

MoI: I disagree with the 'If Zang is town' line of argument. My best reason why I feel it is false lies in my other ongoing game. Bussing partners seems to becoming much more common. Still, I can't see this faulty argument as scummy seeing as I recently fell into that trap as well.

nexus: No real problems with Nexus. leaning positive

pap: Not enough content - leaning a bit negative.

snake: Another content challenged individual - a bit negative because of the nexus vote.

surye: Do you have an opinion on anyone yet? leaning negative

Tar: no real problems with Tar - leaning positive

VOTE: Surye

By the way, no one has to tell me that they hate my reads. Everyone always hates my reads. If you hate my reads, tell me why you hate them or which reads you hate.

[The Rufflig]

My apologies.

V/LA June 7-9

[The Rufflig]

@hoppster: If you wanted to know why I was leaning negative on pappums, you should have left a post of his for me.

[The Rufflig]

I'm happy to say I found a good access point for today.

So, Snake, how are we suppose to determine if you are town or not, if you don't post anything of substance? To be honest, that sort of attitude has always pissed me off especially when the player turns out to be a townie. Also, it seems more scum are adopting that attitude as towns seem reluctant to punish said behavior. If I wanted to randomly guess who is scum or town, I could adopt a random number generator to simulate mafia games. Yes, lurking may be a legal strategy, but it doesn't make for a fun game and it shows a lack of skill. Can you truly claim to win a game of mafia by not playing? I have no respect for players who win that way. Play the bloody game. And that goes for the rest of our content challenged players, too.

[The Rufflig]

You want me to compare you to Cognito? Ok.

CES: finds pappums, surye, ant and yourself to be scummy
you: nexus is scummy

CES isn't very forthcoming about his reasons - he apparently thinks they are obvious enough, but I prefer players to state their reasons mainly to make sure I'm seeing what they are seeing.

Your reason for Nexus is straightforward, but fairly useless to me as I don't have the meta on Nexus that you do. For me to put credit in your meta of Nexus, you'd have to die and flip townie first. On the topics of flips, if CES dies and flips town, I know his reads were honest and I can put some credit in them. If you flip as townie, you've only given the town one piece of information to work with.

Overall CES is more valuable than you are. (don't take that as a compliment, CES)

[The Rufflig]

Overall CES is more valuable than you are. (don't take that as a compliment, CES)

But according to your reasoning, he's only valuable if he's dead.

Yup and a dead snake is worth less to the town than a dead ces, but that isn't a strong enough reason for me to vote ces. Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough lynches to get rid of all the dead weight in this town before we lose. All I can do is point out how anti-town a player's style is and apply pressure in hopes that the player will amend his ways and actually help the town. The more active the town is, the less the scum can hide by being inactive.

Have I mentioned yet that I don't like lurkers? I don't mind lynching them when there is nothing better to go on especially day 1. I always hope the example of the first lurker swinging from a rope will inspire the other lurkers to clean up their act.

Huh, I wonder if this feeling is me getting ready to throw a vote towards snake?

[The Rufflig]

Ah, home sweet home!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Uhm....is my vote count off? I believe both of his numbers are wrong. He moved from a wagon of three (including himself) to form a wagon of four.
Ant: iamausername, Cogito Ergo Sum
Surye: Nexus, bv310, The Rufflig

Where were you going with this anyway?

----

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

----

Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

That was actually Nexus and you were at L-2 at the time.

[The Rufflig]

@surye: Well, let's work backwards and see. My personal vote count agrees with the mod's count in #168. You were at L-3 there. Two posts above it at #166 Tarhalindur unvoted you to move you away from what he thought was L-1, but was actually L-2. Nexus threatening to hammer you came in at #165. Yup, you were at L-2 at the time.

[The Rufflig]

Does anyone else see the underlying assumption here that Rufflig knows that both Snake and CES are Town (I’ve bolded the phrase that caught my eye)? Specific use of the term dead-weight implies that they are Town aligned.

@Ruffling – How do you propose that we pressure CES (who you have said is dead-weight to Town) if you aren’t willing to vote him?

@Rufflig – What alignment significance do you assign to Surye’s statements about not being at L-1 so not claiming? Regardless of whether he was technically L-2 or L-3 the fact remains that Tar unvoted him so wasn’t at L-1 with an offered hammer.

1) Yup, I see the assumption, but the reason for the assumption is wrong. In my experience, a lurker is much more likely to flip town than scum.

2) Actually, I'm willing to vote for him. You want to back me on a pappums rat or ces vote?

3) None. As far as I'm concerned, Surye was correct in refusing to claim - the time was not correct. I did want to point out to him that he was closer to being lynched than he thought he was.
---

Ok, Hoppster, I'm willing to play ball.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: pappums rat

[The Rufflig]

Quick "I found some free time and a computer" initial post.

I will get through everything and not leave until I do

Liar.

[The Rufflig]

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes.

Absolutely fascinating. You don't mind if I do a PbPA of you in comparison, I trust?

ISO #
0) RVS vote. Poses RVS questions.
1) V/LA
2) vote: Nexus -- reason: offsite meta
3) I'm a sonic screwdriver
4) Small poke at Zang.
5) I never post reads on day 1
6) But I will provide content when there is something to go on
7) more offsite meta on Nexus
8) Why am I attracting more attention for not playing than CES?
9) What evidence do you guys have to pick on me?
10) Ok, ok, I'll defend myself a little. I'm an observer. If I have to participate in day 1 then I'll throw out random comments to observe reactions. FoS: Zang. Town reaction from CES.
11) answers questions
12) unvote
13) puts surye at L-1 (L-2) -- reason: to observe reaction(s)
14) v/la
15) Yes, I sheeped onto surye, but Nexus is still scum. vote: Nexus
16) I'm paying attention to the game. Why is _Hoppster_ flying under the radar?
17/18) PbPA on CES. Nexus is still scum. vote: CES -- reason: he's participating less than I am.

Quite frankly, I can't honestly say that I think CES is providing less content than you. I will admit CES isn't providing a heck of a lot more. Pretty much everything you've said about CES can also be said about you. Your day 1 approach is incredibly anti-town at best and I'm not in a mood to tolerate it. We lynched two people with that approach in the last game I was in: one turned out to be scum and the other turned out to be town (day 1 and day 2 respectively).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SnakePlissken L-1

Oh, btw, if you think there is something scummy about Hoppster then why not bring those points up instead of complaining that he is flying under the radar?

[The Rufflig]

Thank you, Mod!

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

Bah! Where were you while my vote was on rat? (rhetorical)

Here’s a question – would you support an Ant vote with me?

... Maybe. I keep changing my mind between yes and no while typing this out. He's kind of borderline.

[The Rufflig]

What in the world is goofbash?

[The Rufflig]

UNVOTE:
It would be difficult to believe that the Doctor wouldn't be in this game. -- it is called Doctor Who after all. More specifically: Return of the Time Lords -- the flavor was pulled directly from David Tennant's last story arc as the Doctor "The End of Time, Part One". Barring a counter-claim, I believe Snake. I don't see what is so difficult about this.

FoS: Tarhalindur, MoI, Nexus, Zang

Great - just go ahead and trash a lot of my town reads. Thanks a lot.

Much as I'd like to vote pappums again, his v/la would prove troublesome. bv310's continued absence after being prodded ... it's hard to pressure someone who isn't sitting in his seat at the table. Though, at this rate, bv310 is on track to getting replaced. I'll need short while to mull who to vote for now.

[The Rufflig]

Zang's play is confusing me. I keep running through it and I keep coming up with the same conclusion. Either Snake or Zang is scum. Anyone else come to a similar conclusion?

[The Rufflig]

I need to you to provide me with a list of all the Theme games you have played on MS Rufflig. Because I find that someone who joined before me having never seen the concept of Mods specifically subverting flavor material a pretty big stretch.

What is so hard about it? Ok. Just theme games? The Prisoner (mini #1099) and The Walking Dead (mini #1123). That was easy. Anything else? I've seen the concept of a mod subverting flavor material in Aqua Teen Hunger Force -- but truthfully that was a bastard mod game (and I didn't play in it).

[The Rufflig]

It's a pity you had to be scum, Zang. Oh, well.
VOTE: Zang

I would like to weigh in on this Allons-y vs Allonsi issue. I don't know about your PMs from the mod, but mine have a lot of grammatical errors in them. Everything from capitalization errors, missing punction, and cases not agreeing. Did I mention spelling? Ok, take a look at the previous vote counts -- specifically how the mod spells my name. There should not be an 'n' in Rufflig. I'm not inclined to put much faith in the mod having spelled a French word correctly. Obviously, Snake doesn't know French or he wouldn't have spelled the word incorrectly reguardless of how the mod spelled it.

As far as outguessing the mod -- one doesn't have to look back very far to find a companion who would be well suited to a power role. Martha Jones M.D. is a perfect fit for a town doctor role, no? Or you could go Harry Sullivan for the town doctor as well. The Brigadier for a vigilante or investigative role. I didn't watch Torchwood, but Captain Jack for an investigative role?

[The Rufflig]

Actually, Zang, it was your FoS on Surye that pushed me over the edge to vote for you, not the vote for Snake.

As for the other thing, I thought of it. If I decide to believe you and Snake flips town are you willing to let us lynch you next?

[The Rufflig]

Ok, so I took a quick look over Superheroes Mafia and X-Files (also run by our mod). Superhero mafia started with the premise that some of the superheroes had turned evil, I don't believe that applies here. In X-Files, our mod did indeed provide fake claims to the scum, but they weren't major characters.

Here is the thing that really bugs me, though. All of you who find Snake's claim scummy are arguing that the mod has done something sneaky by mixing up alignments of roles or given out major character fake claims. Ok, fine. But you don't know that the mod has done that. Therefore your whole case is based around an unproven assumption that quite well could be false. In fact, I don't see that there is a single claim that snake could give that you couldn't find scummy under your assumptions, therefore you can't count Snake's claim as part of your Snake is scum cases - well, not if your being honest, anyhow. The only thing Snake's claim could be is a null tell under the assumptions that you guys are presenting to us.

[The Rufflig]

Then let me be a bit more clear myself, MagnaofIllusion. Your vote is not on Snake. Why are you arguing so hard that we shouldn't put any credibility in Snake's claim? It's almost like you're trying to get him lynched without actually being on his wagon.

[The Rufflig]

Speaking of Nexus, I believe Snake put him at L-2. Nexus is now our largest wagon.

[The Rufflig]

Why? Surye did something that I saw as very scummy.

Did you miss the part where Surye spoke up about Snake's claim? Even Nexus pointed it out.

Shouldn't modding a mini theme game take priority over playing in one?

Not the point. The point is it has been a week and a half since anything other than an excuse or apology for not playing has come from bv310. If he doesn't have the time to play, he should replace out. The other option is that he is purposefully lurking and is therefore scum who should be lynched.

Snake is currently my biggest scum read so I would be willing to sacrifice myself if it means that you'll lynch him.

Grah! You drive me crazy, Zang. Everytime I think we're on the same page you say something that makes me think we aren't. I don't think we are talking about the same thing anymore; so, no.

[The Rufflig]

Looks like it was my turn to make a mis-quote. It was iamausername, not Nexus.

[The Rufflig]

Why? I already answered it.

I have the feeling that he picked up on what I was obliquely saying.
---

This would be cool, Rufflig.

I was ignoring that on purpose to be honest. Although, since its turned out that I was obviously wrong, I guess there's no harm in explaining it now. Zang moving his vote over to Snake just after the claim and his subsequent explanations struck a chord of possibility with me. That possibility was that Zang was performing a soft counter-claim. Zang's insistence that the doctor would have a power role in spite of his argument that the mod might mix things up is what set the idea in my head. Just read through all of his not believing Snake's claim again with a Zang cc in mind and you should be able to spot the places where it looks like Zang is hinting at a cc. You'll also notice the spots that drive me crazy with reguards to a possible Zang cc. In the end, I had to admit I was misreading things.

All of that should explain what I was thinking, hinting at, and asking Zang.

[The Rufflig]

Btw, BV310, would this more conversation have anything to do with you telling us who you think is actually scummy? Your one scum suspect was Surye about 2 weeks ago. Maybe you'd like to comment on Snake's wagon or claim? After all, if you think Nexus is town, Snake would be the other major wagon, atm.

[The Rufflig]

You misjudge me. I am not afraid of being the hammer. I was rather hoping to get BV310 to actually say something during day 1, first. It looks like it is going to fall upon my shoulders, anyhow.
The only people that can hammer are:
pappums rat: v/la
CES: v/la (Goofbash)
Nexus: isn't going to self-hammer
Zang: stuck to his snake vote
bv310: frequently absent
The Rufflig: Present

I'm going to give bv310 another day to get his thoughts in - if progress remains stalled, I'll hammer tomorrow night. It looks to me that everyone is pretty much set in their vote anyhow.

[The Rufflig]

Surye, would you mind pressing bv310 to actually say something today instead of challenging him to end the day?

[The Rufflig]

His "correction" might have been a cover for a scum slip. However, he really hasn't said anything today. You might have noticed that even though he is "caught up" that he ignored my request for his scum suspects. Townies generally want to give out there scum suspects and the reasoning behind the suspects in order to help town. bv310 isn't doing any of that. The only thing he has said since getting back is that he is willing to hammer Nexus. I think it is safe to say that he is purposely lurking and he is now on my willing to lynch list.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: bv310

[The Rufflig]

Emphasis mostly. Like I said earlier, I think everyone is pretty much set in their vote already.

Day 1 The 9th, and correct vote count

@mod: Want to bet on that? My vote is on bv310 not Surye.

[The Rufflig]

@mod:

AHEM! My vote was previously on _Zang_.

mod: well the VC is correct now

[The Rufflig]

I don't think a longer day is going to help anything, mod. I vote for a suspended night deadline or should I say:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nexus

This apathy shown to a Doctor Who theme game saddens me.

[The Rufflig]

I - I'll regenerate, but you'll have to face this crisis on your own. Go town!
Where there's life ...

[The Rufflig]

Ah! On the topic of the modkill - Jason had to do it. Jason locked the thread for a short while to confer about the role claim quoting. Anyone who had seen the locked thread and then come back to CMaR's post about warning received ... it wouldn't have taken a genius to put 2 and 2 together and figure out CMaR was now a mod confirmed townie.

[The Rufflig]

Yeah, go ahead and post the dead topic. Not much in there except us active townies venting our frustration.