[Mini 1208] Mafia in the Scarlet Monastery (Over)

[BrianMcQueso]

Confirm!

[/forthehorde]

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm going to use INCREDIBLE PSYCHIC POWERS and deduce that there's some kind of history between you two.

How'd I do?

[BrianMcQueso]

Also we're skipping RVS this game. I will explain once the game officially starts.

I was the 9th confirm, so feel free to share. Unless you have, and it's "RBT should claim", at which I am sorely disappointed.

[BrianMcQueso]

Game 1, RBT is defensive of himself, attacking others, and scum. Game 2, RBT is passive, confused and is town. Wasn't too hard.

The douchebag in this game seems to be you so far, Parama. That doesn't make either of you town or scum, it just needs to be toned down IMO.

[BrianMcQueso]

If the scum had a daykill (which I'd say is reasonable, considering last game they had a vote swap which is also pretty strong), the town would lose after 3 town lynches (assuming 3 scum). Based on town PRs, that could be fair.

Maybe I'm just hesitant to confirm innocents this early, but I'm still skeptical.

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm trying to figure out how faction knowledge would help a power role.

I'm also trying to figure out how that information could turn against us if the scum knew factions.

Honestly, the first one seems more realistic than the second one. We might be able to accrue benefit here without giving the scum a blueprint to the town.

For the record:
Alliance: Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Night Elf, Draenei, Worgen
Horde: Orc, Troll, Tauren, Undead, Blood Elf, Goblin

[BrianMcQueso]

<-- Horde

RBT is a douchebag. He doesn't try to hide that fact.
He's also useless. Little to no scumhunting, one-liner posts every other day, and never any attempts to actually play the game.

You've become what you hate. Well, except your one-liner posts are all over the place. Killing a guy because just you don't like him is a terrible move. It'd be nice if people used their powers to help the town's chances of winning rather than further their personal agendas.

vote: Valern

Got a hunch on this one. Really didn't like #118.

[BrianMcQueso]

Firstly,

unvote Valern

. Random vote is over, let's get srs.

Holy crap Fate, do you really thinking talking in all caps all the time and and swearing and being an asshole is going to convince people you're right?

Unvote. Vote Reck

Fine, Fate. I'm willing to go with you on this.

Well shit, I guess it does work. I pity those agreeing with you because you're loud, not because they think you're right. Nevertheless, you can't spend all game attacking someone and then try to use "look, all they do is defend themselves" as justification.

You're being ridiculously single-minded. You're saying you're willing to lynch yourself if you're wrong, which is bull, because I can already see the Day2 all-caps lock "IT'S RETARDED TO WANT TO LYNCH ME FOR THAT YOU ASSHATS YOU ALL VOTED FOR HIM TOO" etc. etc. Saying you're willing to stake your life on it doesn't make you any more right.

Fate, other than Reck, name one person you think is scummy,

and why

. And if that reason is "because he's not voting for Reck" or "he's defending Reck", it doesn't count. And by "doesn't count" I mean I will lynch you. Stop tunneling off of nothing, and be the scumhunter you're demanding Reck should be. Your hyper-aggressive play is letting the scum sit quiet while you draw attention to yourself and Reck. Even if Reck is scum, you're letting his buddies hide.

Regardless of your alignment, your play is dangerous to the town.

--

Kiwi, do you understand why an early VT claim for no reason looks scummy? Simple yes or no question. Do you understand why talking about another game in this game is confusing and misleading? Do you also understand that if you keep saying "misrep" over and over (and over) it's going to lose all meaning?

[BrianMcQueso]

BTW, Reck's whole "/w" power is still sketchy to me. Last game, all the powers were actual abilities (Mark of the Wild, Arcane Intellect, etc.) inHim might have switched it up, but I still have my doubts.

I'm definitely not asking for "/dance" or whatever to come forward with a claim. We have way too many claims for D1 as it is. Don't want to give the scum a blueprint to the town.

[BrianMcQueso]

Erp, yeah, they are. My mistake. It wasn't an RVS vote, but I had forgotten about making it because of all the shitstorm that happened.

[BrianMcQueso]

yeaaah, hence my 287

Well, when you say "Random?" with no other explanation, I had no idea what you were talking about.

Tell me though, guys, how does that make me scum?

[BrianMcQueso]

Then why do you have "Unvote Valern" instead of just "Unvote" hmmma?

Because I was looking at the vote count, realized I had a vote, and unvoted.

Brian you don't get that excuse, because you knew where your vote was, and if you know who you were voting, you should probably have some idea of why you voted them. Game's only been going on for a day, y'know <_<

Fair enough. I made a mistake in calling it a random vote when I unvoted, and it wasn't. Now tell me why that makes me scum.

[BrianMcQueso]

Brian, you're scum because you don't even remember why you were voting Valern. It's empty wagon hopping

Wagon hopping? It was my only vote. I hadn't voted for anyone before that, and I hadn't voted for anyone after.

[BrianMcQueso]

Nobody else voted for Valern. One person does not make a wagon.

[BrianMcQueso]

What is your stance on Valern now? Does 118 not rub you the wrong way?

Yes, but a hunch based on Valern's 118 is of less significance than everything that has happened between xRECKONERx, Fate, Seacore, and KiwiEagle. There is significant development there, and it made me forget why I had even voted Valern in the first place.

[BrianMcQueso]

Forgot why playing with the CAPS LOCKERS is such a bummer.

My thoughts exactly. I feel like there's an actual case buried in the caps-locked, swear-filled posts, but my brain hurts just trying to read them. But here's my attempt at translating Fate's case against Reck (please feel free to correct me, Fate, if I've misinterpreted)

(1) Reck is not playing to his town meta of starting off the game picking town reads.
(2) Reck unvoted Kiwieagle when (in Fate's words) he realized the wagon would make him look bad.
(3) Reck is not playing to his town meta by putting more emphasis on night actions
(4) Reck is not playing as a PR would be playing. (again here)
(5) Reck is trying to sound townly without actually hunting scum
(6) Reck is voting for me (BMQ), and I know I am town.

Firstly, I'm not a player that plays off meta. You can play that way if you like, and I won't hold it against you, but it's not something that will convince me personally. So I won't buy into (1) and (3).

(2) is a reasonable claim. I think the case against Kiwi is weak, and Reck unvoted Kiwi. You can read whatever motivation you'd like to into that (is it a weak wagon? or does he not want to make himself look bad by voting Kiwi?)

Likewise, (5) is another reasonable claim, but heavily based on opinion. I wouldn't hold this against Fate, but you either agree that Reck is trying to sound townly or you don't.

For (6), voting for me does not automatically make you scum. Townies vote for townies, it happens.

However, (4) is where the meat is. Fate's case that Reck isn't playing to the role he claims to be is an argument that has merit. Reck stirred up a full faction-claim from the town for what... a one-shot messenger role that can only interact with a small section of the town. I'd estimate 3 scum in the setup, leaving 10 town. It's a reasonable guess that those 10 town would be 5 Alliance and 5 Horde, give or take 1 person either way. Not including himself, that means there are 4-5 people that he can one-shot neighbor with, which is (a) a one-shot use of (b) a restricted target ability that (c) neighbors, which is a fundamentally weak ability. Reck says he wants to use it in a way to turn it into a pseudo-investigation. But as a role, it just seems very underpowered, hurting its legitimacy.

Reck, you know how I would have played your claimed role, if I had it? I would've kept my mouth shut, attempted a /w, and then based on my result (communication went through, blocked, whatever), I could then, the next day, openly ask that player "hey, are you Alliance or Horde?". If their answer contradicted the information I received, whammo, we've got a scum. I honestly don't see why you've dragged faction information out of everyone and drawn so much attention to yourself in an "investigative" role. You're trying to set yourself up like a pseudo-cop, but you're not playing like a cop. I have a sinking feeling that you're scum, and one of your powers is related to player faction.

The flavor of your claim ("/w") doesn't fit the flavor of other powers in the game. The claim itself seems so weak that it's hard to believe. And you're not playing to the investigative style you're claiming. Even if, on your best day, you're a one-shot cop, cops don't claim for no reason D1.

[BrianMcQueso]

I think I've caught scum.

The flavor of your claim ("/w") doesn't fit the flavor of

other powers

in the game. The claim itself seems so weak that it's hard to believe. And you're not playing to the investigative style you're claiming. Even if, on your best day, you're a one-shot cop, cops don't claim for no reason D1.

Brian, how do you know what multiple other powers in this game look like?

Got a list of abilities on your scum PM do you?

You're stretching further than Mr. Fantastic. I know what all the powers looked like in the Deadmines game. I know that it's the same format in this game because I have my role PM, and I read the moderator's posts. The moderator has "Last Stand" in the example, not "/wave".

Do you honestly think the scum get lists of abilities? Because that would be busted. And even if they did,

and

I'm a scum, you think I would slip it out like that? That's a lot of ifs. I think you all need to stop looking for scum slips and start analyzing behavior. The scum out there aren't going to hand over their identities on a silver platter.

[BrianMcQueso]

Also, I wanted to give Reck a chance to respond before voting. I understand what you're saying, but it still just doesn't add up. Your confirmability has changed, what you're trying to do with your role has changed, the ability name doesn't
make sense, and the ability function doesn't make sense.

vote: xRECKONERx

[BrianMcQueso]

Mr. Moderator: I voted for Reckoner a while back (yesterday night, but that was like a dozen pages ago).

So what's with Kiwi? He mentioned a lyncher without background knowledge of a lyncher, or something? I don't quite understand what happened in the last few pages.

[BrianMcQueso]

Ok, I'm rereading here. So, the deal is that Fate fakeclaimed a result on Reck, and didn't like the way Kiwi reacted? And then Kiwi suggested Fate was a lyncher? And when Kiwi is under pressure, he tried to deflect back to a Reck lynch?

Do I have that all right?

@Parama: If you're town, explain to me why.

@Reck: Ask the mod for a new PM. It's much easier than stating in-thread over and over that it got deleted. Otherwise, it's just a convenient excuse to "forget" what your "claim" exactly was.

[BrianMcQueso]

The claim was FAKE CLAIM PARAMA.

Also I may have obscured part of my role PM hehehahehaehaheahehaeh

By the way guys, it frustrates me to no end when people lie to the town. We used to have a policy for such things, and it makes me sad it's fallen out of favor.

[BrianMcQueso]

Brian, if you're town, hammer da kiwi.

@Parama: If you're town, explain to me why.

I really don't care about rationalizing my towniness to other players because I know I'm town and it'd be full of confirmation bias.

[BrianMcQueso]

Sorry, that middle quote should be me. That's what happens when I do quote tags manually.

[/triplepost]

[BrianMcQueso]

All of that and you have still yet to explain to me why we're lynching Kiwi.

[BrianMcQueso]

Why is your FIRST thought that I'm a lyncher? Not that I'm mafia gambiting?

Or that, more obviously, that RECK IS SCUM as per my claim?

Why the FUCK would you think lyncher first?

Is it beacuse you know Reck is town?

Tell me again, why does thinking "lyncher" make Kiwi scum? This is not a scum slip. You all have vastly high opinions of the scum, thinking they the exact details of the setup, down to the smallest detail. And before you go and say "OMG BMQ HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT! SCUM SLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", I have

never

played in a game where that was the case (excepting open setups where everyone knows) Of course, if we keep forcing claims out of people, then we'll get to the point where the scum know everything anyway.

AND

WHEN I PRESSURED YOU ON IT

YOU IMMEDIATLEY VOTED RECK

ALL SCARED LIKE
"OH SHIT OK DONT HURT ME LYNCH RECK PL0X"

OH FUCK NO.

GAMBIT.

SUCCESSFUL.

EHAHEAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAHEHAHAAAAAAAA

VOTE: KIWIEAGLE

This is the part that I'm willing to buy. Kiwi's reaction was questionable. Of course, when you've got Fate on your ass, it's hard to defend against anything he says because it's chaotic. You would know, Reck. Nevertheless, he did try to deflect to Reck, and then Smargret. He keeps trying to set up the next day's lynch, multiple times: (what happens if we lynch Reck) (let's lynch Seacore tomorrow) (let's plan tomorrow's lynch if you kill me today) (lynch smarg tomorrow) Then there was the early, unprovoked VT claim, which still rubs me wrong. For those reasons, I'm willing to give him a shot.

unvote

vote: KiwiEagle

That puts him at L-1.

Parama quoting Fate's reasoning is magic

it made Brian disappear

In addition to playing MafiaScum, I occasionally do work at work. Sorry I'm not here 24/7 like you kids with your summer vacation

But seriously, are you kidding? I summarized Fate's case against Kiwi myself. Seeing it again doesn't "make me disappear". Keep trying, pal.

[BrianMcQueso]

vote: Valern

I'm limited access, but I think this is a pretty safe bet.

[BrianMcQueso]

Fate, Reck, stop bickering. You're both town, accept it.

Valern's claim might explain Reck's result, but I don't really consider a hider to be a strong PR. Expendable, yes. A self-protect in a game of 13? Nah. Shadowstep is a bit of a stretch for that, too.

[BrianMcQueso]

No mass claim. Stop helping the scum.

[BrianMcQueso]

OH HEY ANOTHER NO KILL.

Massclaim happens. Today. No excuses.

Did you miss the

two

kills from the night scene? Just sayin'. The ragequit is consistent with the scum kill flavor from Deadmines, and it looks like we have a vigilante.

Valern's scum flip reflects nicely on Reck's claim. He's close to confirmed, but I wouldn't completely rule out busing.

Need to go back and take a good look at this Day 2 lynch. The wagon got switched hard from a scum to a townie, and there's scum to be found in that.

[BrianMcQueso]

Voted for Valern at any point during Day 2: xRECKONERx, BrianMcQueso, smargaret, Hinduragi, Parama

Voted for Valern, Switched to Smarg: xRECKONERx

Voted for Smarg without voting Valern: Fate, Ellibereth (later unvoted), Seacore, Starbuck, Friend

Reck is the only one that hopped. He hopped away from

his own investigation

.

Day 2, his first post is

Vote: Fate

You know exactly who got neighbored.

And then turns it around with "I targeted Valern". WTF?

Reck's role still makes so little sense flavor and power level wise. A one-shot neighborizer? With a targeting restriction? That isn't an in-game ability? Going back, it really looks like he's trying to set up a bus the entire Day 2, and then hops off that bus when he realized he might be able to just get an easy town lynch.

If he was telling the truth, he was a one-shot cop that actually investigated scum. Why wouldn't the scum kill him at that point?

vote: xRECKONERx

We have a vigilante somewhere, which makes Parama's dayvig sketchy (

two

vigilantes?!) I'm getting back behind my idea that the daykill was the Saboteur's bonus ability (which is why it had to be used as soon as possible D1 while all 3 were still alive). Given how hard Reck was buddying Parama for his daykill, I think we can snowball this.

I'm very much in support of a mass claim at this point.

[BrianMcQueso]

PS, your whole DAYKILL IS A BONUS ABILITY FOR SCUM thing has already been suggested by both me and Ellibereth.

And myself... what's your point? I'm stating that the N2 vigilante kill changes the circumstances, and makes the daykill ability now less believeable as pro-town. Do you think there's two vigilantes in this game?

[BrianMcQueso]

Brian: Elli was CONFIRMED TOWN by smarg's role.

Yes, indeed. So, why are you pointing that out?

Wow fuck me I was bought that hider claim too quickly

AND Brian is voting RECK? Lol.

I was wrong about Valern aka Im wrong about Brian too >_>b

Vote: BrianMcQueso

You're voting me because I voted Reck? After you've been on his ass and trying to 1v1 him the whole game? I just don't get you, Fate.

That being said, I'm more than happy to vote Parama instead. The two-vig thing doesn't fly.

I'd like everyone to weigh in on mass claim before I go ahead, but I'm happy to go first (of those who haven't already claimed, at least).

[BrianMcQueso]

YES PARAMA I KNOW

THAT IS WHY I SUSPECT YOU

[BrianMcQueso]

Oh snap, he wooshed me. I guess that means he's the actual vigilante and not the scumbag.

Mysterious Killer X killed Valern N2, and therefore

has

to be pro-town. The mafia is not going to use a bonus nightkill to take out one of their own. They're going to rush it out Day 1 to try to confirm themselves.

Let me simplify it: If there are two killers, and one killed scum, that one is the vigilante.

In fact, screw speculating over wagon hops. There's no way you're town.

unvote, vote: Parama

I'm not the vigilante, by the way. I think your whole WHOOSH case is built on that assumption.

[BrianMcQueso]

YES YOU FREAKING MORONS I SHOT VALERN AND I HAVE ONE MORE NIGHTKILL LEFT AND I WAS TRYING TO STAY HIDDEN BUT NO I GUESS YOU PEOPLE DON'T PICK UP ON SUBTLE HINTS NOW DO YOU.

Earlier...

Claim: 1-shot dayvig

RBT is officially dead.

[BrianMcQueso]

You can't say "I'm a 1-shot dayvig" and then rage at me for holding you to it.

We need the other members of the town here.

[BrianMcQueso]

Yes, but it's a lie of omission. Most day-vigs don't come with nightkills to make them even more ridiculously powerful. You went off like a bat out of hell because I was playing as though you were what you said you were. Don't fault me for your play.

All we need is for the other players to pop their heads in and confirm they're not the vigilante. If they do that, you're off the hook and a confirmed innocent.

Fate's play never ceases to bewilder me.

[BrianMcQueso]

Let's do this.

I'm the Doctor. Troll Druid, ability is "Rejuvenation". It's a protection with a targeting restriction-- each night I'm sent a list of names I can protect, and I choose from one of them.

First night I protected Fate. Second night I protected Reck.

[BrianMcQueso]

Sorry about my absence. Here's a catch-up:

Are the names chosen randomly?

No. But I won't reveal how the list is chosen because the scum will be able to manipulate it and get their names on it at the cost of other players. The conditions of who I can protect are easily influenced.

---

unvote: Parama

. Nobody's stepped forward to counterclaim the vig kill, so it looks like you're confirmed.

---

@Fate: Reck claimed

one shot

on his ability. You can believe the claim or not, but he's not gonna be having more results either way. If you think that's a slip, you're wrong. Also,

BrianMcQueso-[YO] GET OUT OF YOUR HINDU TUNNEL, FUCK THAT 1v1, LYNCH REAL DANGEROUS SCUM WITH US

At no point did I ever tunnel Hindu or even suspect Hindu. Other people saying it's a counterclaim is their business. I'm still undecided, as a jailkeeper and a doctor could co-exist, though it's less likely in a game this small. Polymorph (the WoW ability) does heal the target but that's a side effect of an ability you can only cast on enemies that's designed to take someone out of the fight (which screams straight roleblocker). If the Polymorphed target takes damage, they are no longer being healed. It's... a rough fit, to Hindu's claim, but not completely out there.

Oh wait, those are the only three options?

Hmm. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for me to be the NK target, unless scum were actually afraid of my ability. Which means, unfortunately, it was probably Fatetown being saved by Briantown *sigh*

It makes about as much sense for you to be the NK target as it is for Fate to be the NK target. I protected Fate because I figured he was a high-profile target. Insane players like him are dangerous to the scum. It's the same reason I protected you, Reck. You two fighting amongst yourselves isn't doing much to help the town, but dammit I just love stopping nightkills.

Actually, I'm kinda doubting Brian's claim at this point (everything else is super weird variations on roles, his is just "Doctor"). But wasn't he confirmed another way as town?

As Parama said in the next post, I am not confirmed. But I never said I was a vanilla doctor. I've got a targeting restriction that changes each night. If your reason for voting me is that you didn't actually read my claim, then I suggest you unvote.

Reck's ability name still feels weird to me. Smargret's ability was "Time is Money", which is a racial ability (as opposed to class abilities which the rest of us have), so the abilities in this game don't follow a straight pattern, but it still sticks out like a sore thumb.

The ability name doesn't fit, the ability function is still weird, your D2 play is scummy (only one that hopped, from a scum to an innocent, ignoring

your own investigation

). I wouldn't put it above Reck to bus one partner while ignoring the other, which is how he played in Deadmines.

I know you can't control what role you were given Reck, but your play leads me to believe you're scum.

vote: xRECKONERx

(And this has nothing to do with Fate's yelling. God damn Fate,

calm the fuck down.

)

[BrianMcQueso]

@Brian: Do you think Hindu's claim meshes well with yours?

Well, we're two doctors that can't cross-protect. I can't always target him, and he docblocks me. I am hesitant to believe Hindu's claim, but I don't think we're straight counterclaiming each other.

Still, you're right, it's a lot of stopping power. I'm surprised to see two protective roles in a game of this size, especially given our moderator's opinion of doctors. Of course, Deadmines showed us how stacked the scum can be when it comes to bonus abilities.

How is your selection pool decided?

As I stated before, I'm not going to be revealing how my target list is chosen. I am adamant about this.