Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Cobblerfone]

Cult might have to make up a position, then when more people are against that position you fold to them.

[Battousai]

Okay, 3 ppl haven't claimed....

Flameaxe because he won't unless the other two will, and is butt hurt over me not telling him how my role pm (even though I paraphrased it) made me believe that cobbler wasn't recruited.

Yos- Is against it, because he doesn't believe we are at 5:10 (which is the day before lylo). There is a possibility that it is at 5:10. Play safe!

Conspiracy- Is against it, but has used it to support a bv lynch...

I think there is 1 scum among these 3. Yos has been jailkept since N1 so he's out. So 50/50 shot at scum between conspiracy and Flameaxe. The reason I believe there is scum here, as I believe in the counterpoint theory. Whenever there is a major point/stance taken, there is always 1 scum there who wants to be on the otherside as to 1) not agree with his/her partners 2) Not be linked to the outcome. Right now, I believe that is flameaxe, reason being is that he is the most wishywashy person of the two on the massclaim stance. He wants it, but only if everyone wants it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flameaxe

[Flameaxe]

Right now, I believe that is flameaxe, reason being is that he is the most wishywashy person of the two on the massclaim stance. He wants it, but only if everyone wants it.

How does this make me cult beyond pure speculation?

[populartajo]

am I wrong in the assumption that this is some kind of lylo and if we lynch wrong its likely gg?

that was the idea behind the massclaim, right? correct me if Im wrong.

I don't see how it could be. Cult has at most 5 recruits right now, right? Probably less, with multiple unrecruitables, a jailkeeper, and possibly multiple cult docs, they've probably failed once or twice. There are still 15 people left alive.

Now, if the scum never failed to recruit, if there's another person recruited tonight, and vigs (or whatever) shoot two more townies, then we could theoretically be in a 6 scum vs. 7 town situation tommorow, but that's pretty unlikely.

i agree its unlikely but I think massclaim gives is a better shot of avoiding that position or even getting near to that position. its also worth to notice that we have better odds of lynching better and lynch a kinetic recruit, which is what we need to start finding conections

right nao we are pretty lost and only relying on some results, the scumhunting is sucking big balls because, lets be honest, cult games suck for these things

I THINK WE NEED TO FINSIH THE CLAIM AND WE NEED TO GET THOSE HERO RESULTS ASAP

[populartajo]

Pretty sure everyone is still following the idea of popcorn claiming...aaaand....

Tajo next.

i think the problem with flameaxe is that not only he agreed with the massclaim /pieisgood but also wanted and

pressured

people to claim even though there wasnt the total agreement he is now using to not claim.

ill bite

vote: Flameaxe

[Flameaxe]

Uh, there was no opposition at that point? Context better?

[Flameaxe]

Addon: What benefit do I have to not claiming my role in a cult game? My role has no effect on my alignment.

[populartajo]

Because Flameaxe was supportive of a massclaim.

What you are asking me to do is no longer a massclaim. It isn't a massclaim if everyone doesn't agree/participate. As far as I can see, Yos won't be claiming at any point.

according to you, then at that moment, there wasnt a massclaum since yosa hadnt agreed to participate

[populartajo]

Addon: What benefit do I have to not claiming my role in a cult game? My role has no effect on my alignment.

i dont have a problem with that

my problem is that you pressured me to claim when according to you a massclaim couldnt happen since not "everyone had agreed to massclaim"

[Flameaxe]

Because answering a question of why no one was claiming with "people started popcorning and this guy was the last popcorned" is totally pressure.

Yep. Totally pressure.

Besides that, I fail to see where the connection between your posts and me being cult is. Id love to at least try to defend something, but that's a bit difficult when nothing is there.

#fuckphoneposting

[xvart]

Regarding Flameaxe and mass claiming, this is the most telling post:

Pretty sure everyone is still following the idea of popcorn claiming...aaaand....

Tajo next.

This post is uniquely in favor of mass claiming and doesn't even suggest that he is opposed to it, regardless of any other opinions. Basically he is saying "keep mass claiming" and nowhere does he mention that mass claiming isn't good unless everyone is in agreement. As for what is the cult motivation for not claiming... it should be obvious. You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flameaxe

On another note, I have been processing Cobbler's claim and I don't see that role fitting into a cult game. He says something bad will happen to people who try and kill him or confine him (whatever that means). This role is inherently anti town since he can't kill a recruiter that tries to recruit him (recruiters are treestumps) so odds are the only retribution action he will take is against town. Basically, everything Cobbler has claimed has been to keep people from targeting him, actioning against him, or similar.

I am willing to lynch either of these two today. Flameaxe for his contradiction/backpedaling and Cobbler for his fake claim.

[Flameaxe]

This post is uniquely in favor of mass claiming and doesn't even suggest that he is opposed to it, regardless of any other opinions. Basically he is saying "keep mass claiming" and nowhere does he mention that mass claiming isn't good unless everyone is in agreement.

I was not, and am still not opposed to massclaiming, so don't go touting that as a point when its completely untrue. My point is, massclaiming only works when the MASS part of it is in effect, this, funny enough, includes every player agreeing to it. I didn't say it, because I assumed it was...well assumed.

As for what is the cult motivation for not claiming... it should be obvious. You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT.

You having a laugh, bro? If only I started the game with some sort of town role that I could use in case someone asks me to claim! OH WAIT, EVERYONE DID. You're better than logic like this, show me.

[Flameaxe]

More addons: Show me a player in this game that is in favor of a "everyone but two players that are opposed"-claim. Yos sure as hell doesn't seem like he will be claiming any time soon.

Hell, some players who have already claimed still have parts of the claim missing. If this is a mass-claim-what-you-feel-like, then yeah, I'm opposed.

[Herodotus]

A massclaim is useless unless everyone agrees to it. The other two who have not claimed are who I see as those people that don't necessarily agree to it. If not everyone follows along, it isn't really a "mass" claim is it? It's not a "everyone who agrees"claim.

In addition, I won't be claiming until the softclaiming stops. If we want to commit to a massclaim, thats fine. I expect full disclosure in a massclaim, and we have gotten far from that so far from a few people.

This seems dogmatic but not necessarily protown. Could you justify it in a more practical, applied-to-this-game-in-particular way?
Also, I think but am not sure that people have miscounted the number of people who haven't claimed, at least slightly.

Yos has been jailkept since N1 so he's out.

Do you feel that he could have been recruited N0?

[Flameaxe]

Why are people claiming? Argh

I feel your pain.

But it may also be too late at this point. With half of the players having claimed already, do you think it would be a good idea to continue, or to hold further claims?

We need to stop claiming.

I'm hoping that there is likely to be at least one more unclaimed unrecruitable townie, and it is absolutely imperative that the cult does not know who that is, at all cost.

Bolded part for emphasis. If Yos wants people to stop claiming, what makes you think Yos will be claiming in the next 48 hours? If one person refuses to claim, it isn't a massclaim anymore.

Is that applied-to-this-game-in-particular enough?

[Herodotus]

My point is that even assuming one person will refuse to claim, does that eliminate the benefits of massclaim? What are the benefits to massclaiming in this particular game, and how are they lost?

[xvart]

I was not, and am still not opposed to massclaiming, so don't go touting that as a point when its completely untrue. My point is, massclaiming only works when the MASS part of it is in effect, this, funny enough, includes every player agreeing to it. I didn't say it, because I assumed it was...well assumed.

But the point is you never once said anything to suggest this

until

you were asked to claim. You just kept plugging along, even saying "well we are mass claiming, who is next? Oh yeah, this person. Claim."

You having a laugh, bro? If only I started the game with some sort of town role that I could use in case someone asks me to claim! OH WAIT, EVERYONE DID. You're better than logic like this, show me.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. You had a town role to start with but that doesn't mean you have not been recruited and used your town powers (if you have them) for scummy purposes, which you may not have discussed what you should

actually

claim as your actions if we massclaimed today.

[Herodotus]

Not sure why I'm asking though, as I'm ambivalent about finishing.

[Flameaxe]

But the point is you never once said anything to suggest this until you were asked to claim. You just kept plugging along, even saying "well we are mass claiming, who is next? Oh yeah, this person. Claim.

So what is scummy about it then? Obviously it must be pretty damn scummy to vote for the player you have rarely mentioned all game.

Give me a night that I was recruited. Humor me.

[Yosarian2]

Yos- Is against it, because he doesn't believe we are at 5:10 (which is the day before lylo). There is a possibility that it is at 5:10. Play safe!

It doesn't matter. Even in lynch or lose, massclaim is still a really bad idea in this setup.

[Kinetic]

Ah, this mass claim went so well. I really love this town. <3

[Flameaxe]

My point is that even assuming one person will refuse to claim, does that eliminate the benefits of massclaim? What are the benefits to massclaiming in this particular game, and how are they lost?

I don't see any benefit to 90% of the game revealing information at this point. We haven't gained anything from it so far except for learning what roles certain people have that would not have claimed in a normal setting (ones without any upfront information). Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize how stupid the massclaim really was/is. All we have done so far is outted protective roles and unrecruitables (which, really, shouldn't have claimed as such). If anyone had any useful information that Ludi seemed to think we would get out of this massclaim when he first proposed it, it probably would have been out in the open before we even considered a massclaim. Yes, this is me claiming that I have no useful information, for the record. Yes, I'm flip-flopping a bit here. It is what it is.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm not sure how well it will go, but I do believe we have a chance to break the game by using our roles (which is also why I wanted a massclaim yesterday, hindsight 20/20 with three extra power roles I guess)

We have herod claim the rest of his innocents (or claim you have no more results, I guess, in which case this plan is not as effective). We have heord investigate the claimed unrecruitable cult doc, have some protective roles on them as well, as well as vig's hitting from lists of unconfirmed. I think this plan has a high chance to work, even assuming 5 cult members with power.

[Bunnylover]

Pretty sure everyone is still following the idea of popcorn claiming...aaaand....

Tajo next.

This post is the exact stance that Flamexe is taken. He has not backpeddle over this stance.
Flamexe believed everyone was following the plan.
Guess what?
Not everyone wanted to follow the plan.
That means Flamexe had the choice to claim or not to claim (If he was the only one to not claim, I mean he really doesn't have that choice).

So where is he saying that he supports a massclaim? I don't see it in that quote.

Cobbler your vote is grasping for major straws. Even if he did go from supporting massclaim to not supporting massclaim, I can not see the benefit from a cult member doing that. Its more beneficial for cult to want to mass claim so they can get who role is who, isn't it? So how does all of this = Flamexe culted.

Tajo your vote isn't good either. He "pressured" people into claiming? All he did was quote me saying who would go next. He didn't go out and attack you for your claim. He reminded everyone who was next. I don't see it as "pressured".

"You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT."

- From Xvart.
So are you assuming that he is going to fake claim instead of using his real role?
Or are you assuming he's a night zero recruit?

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobble

Something wants me to do this again. My guess is post 2948. I am also in favor of a massclaim. I'm always in the mood for a massclaim. [/pieisgood]

For what its worth.

And while I'm here, am I the only one that reads Bunnylovers post as essentially the same thing I have said to different people over the past two pages? #stopcopyingme