Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[Ethos]

Sorry, I was being vague. What I really meant was if the robber isn't Newman who do you believe it is? Also, sure, I see no reason no to use the governor ability now.

[hiphop]

Read it again.

[Magua]

Breaking News

The conference room office phone rang.

That was new.

All eyes turned towards me as I keyed the phone for speaker. The raspy voice was instantly identifiable as Mr. Moneybags himself. "You got Seacore there?" he aked.

"Yeah", I replied, somewhat guardedly. I'd been ambushed in these situations before.

"Just got the weekly market trending reports, and Mooninites Marvels, Inc. is showing a projected gain of 357% month-over-month volume. You tell Seacore whatever it is he's doing, it's the bees knees!" Bees [expletive deleted] knees. I [expletive deleted] hated the way Mr. Moneybags talked. "And, Magua," he added, in the tone that indicated that I wouldn't like whatever he said next, "You make sure Seacore stays happy there, eh? Make sure nothing bad happens to him. If it does," he added, somewhat redundantly, "I'm holding you responsible.

Capiche?

"

Then he hung up.

Event:

Governor

activated. It targeted Seacore. No further votes for Seacore will be counted.

[GreyICE]

Understood, thanks for the clarification Magua. I think it's safe to say that GreyICE was roleblocked rather than an alternate acton occurring meaning the visit on Voided makes him clear as soon as someone wins gravedigger and checks LLD. Newmans volunteerism of being night-killed as opposed to lynched reads as a town-tell especially since he's not part of the neighborhood and therefore has no ability to convince the person holding night-kill to do differently at a later time.

Grey and Seacore, an elaboration on your current reads would be highly appreciated and Hip, you strongly believed Newman wasn't the SK just recently can you explain the change of heart without saying that it's solely due to Voided becoming clear please.

I don't hold that 'please just shoot me now for the good of the town' as ever being a town tell. People begging to be killed should be killed.

But if we're night killing Newman, then I'm voting for my suspect #2 if Voided is cleared.

Vote: Ethos

You've managed to lead this discussion around long enough, and while I had a town read, I just do not trust you.

We've had the entire discussion framed so that your role, your actions have never been quantified. And if we look at them, I can't say that I'm overly impressed by your towniness. A watcher shot, used on nothing. A neighborizor, very good for discussing things, but hardly an incredible use of our time.

At the moment, Ethos, we're clearing the board. You've been reasonably happy to go along with an agenda of people dying that seems selected more or less at random. Kill Pere, because you knew I thought ChaosOmega was scummy. Let's push mal, ICE thinks LLD is scummy and is as easy to deter as an avalanche.

Oh look, we need two kills for this day, man Hiphop is suddenly looking scummy since ICE is going to shoot Voided... oh that didn't work and voided is clear, lucky the backup plan is up and ticking.

We've been giving you a free pass, and it's rescinded.

[Ethos]

Awesome, you want to lay cards on the table, you want to question our role, our actions and out abilities. Lets do it then.

Our watcher wasn't used on nothing, it was used to ensure that a roleblocking or killing didn't occur on hiphop the night he shot Icey, initially we planned on using it on Void however him stating that he had tracker/watcher as a mix up threw us of and we didn't trust watching him at the end of the night. I haven't found any issue with the use of neighborhood, perhaps my one qualm would be that I wish we didn't neighbourize Hiphop and instead neighbourized Seacore. Want to know where the rest of our fucking funds have gone? All on cop, we spent way more than we wanted on that but figured usage of that was worth it.

Now lets move on, our FoS towards Pere and Mal were not random at all, both were explained in detail and we were confident both were scum at the time. Yes we were wrong, nothing we can do about that now. We haven't "Just started FoS'ing Hiphop now", I've actually thought he was mafia for a Looooooooooong time now. Remember when both Slaxx and I posted at the same time stating that we wanted to win cop? Yeah, that was because I was certain that he was scum and didn't see any possible way to lynch him without a guilty report on him, we were actually going to check him that night but decided since we were wrong on Mal we may as well show you some respect and check LLD.

I've been showing you the respect of waiting for you to explain your town-read on Hiphop before we voted but considering you still haven't' done so I'm done waiting. Honestly re-read Hiphop, ignore the fact he shot Icey because that's meaningless since the final scum is robber, read his actual scumhunting contributions, read his complete lack of attempt at reading into what's going on today. Hell, if my strongest FoS was cleared by mechanics I wouldn't say "Oh the guy I've been insisting on being town all along and said it's impossible for him to be robber is robber", hell no. I would be re-reading everything, looking into players that haven't been looked into trying to find how this makes sense and adds up, he hasn't done that at all.

Vote: Hiphop

[GreyICE]

My town read on HipHop is for pretty obvious reasons, but if I need to reiterate, HipHop is working as a member of a team. Not sheeping, not letting others make decisions for him, not only laying out his theories, not only critiquing others. When I post, he checks the details, and he asks me questions. Not to push my lynch, but to test the theory, see if it holds water, see if I'm on the right track or off. He's genuinely reading this thread and interacting with it.

You were going to check out Hiphop, but held off to check LLD out of respect for me? Welp, guess I really let down your respect there

And this is the nexus of the problem. Not that you thought Pere was scummy. I thought he was scummy enough. Not that you thought LLD was town. We've both been on a scumteam with her and watched it, it'd be crazy to suggest she can't wiggle like a greased eel and sting like a scorpion.

It's that everything seems to boil down to mechanics here. Mechanics are safe ways to have reads for two reasons. The first is they don't require effort. "A, B, and C are true, Captain, therefore Player X it is approximately 64.831% likely they are non-town." The second is that if you're scum, you don't shoot players who suspect you for mechanical reasons, unless the rest of the thread is herp-a-derp. If A, B, and C all point to you likely being scum today, they'll all point to you likely being scum tomorrow, you don't shoot the guy stating the obvious, you shoot the people who are reading you, watching you, interpreting what's happening.

Hiphop is playing well with others, and giving me reasoning. You are giving me lots, and lots of information.

I do respect you, Regfan. You suggest that Newman is likely town for his plea to die. Okay, money where mouth is, Regfan, if you had the night kill right now, and Hiphop flipped town, who would you deep six? Would you finish off Newman, the man sure to be town for his willingness to be shot at night to prove how townie he is (just not lynched so that his valuable auctions he's won like... errr... can be last willed to someone - 'cause he's incapable of using the system to mail money out). His willingness to be SHOT AT NIGHT when the robber has how goddamn many shots of roleblocker, assuming he got the gravedigger? Do we even know? Night kills aren't going off for a while unless he wants them to, Reggy, not unless we can use Gravedigger to double up for a night.

And he's willing to be SHOT at NIGHT so he's TOWN? And you dismiss this as a TOWN TELL without questioning it? Fucking hell, the only way on this planet I'd think that was a town tell is if I could PROVE HE WAS TOWN FROM MY ROLE.

Am I adequately explaining to everyone why I think that Regfan and Slaxx are just sliding along with prevailing opinion? Just searching for their own little lynches? I am so, so certain that if we wake up tomorrow with no one dying overnight and hiphop being town, he'll reluctantly consent to the Newman lynch to make me happy, just as he reluctantly conceded to investigate LLD to keep me happy. Get one of his own lynches, give us one of ours. The town is in good hands with Ethos at the wheel.

[hiphop]

Gi, if Ethos was the robber, why would he RB you? I believe a Newman lynch would be better.

And yes, I am pretty sure based on the Qt, that you would kill either Void or Hn, not Ethos.

[Ethos]

My town read on HipHop is for pretty obvious reasons, but if I need to reiterate, HipHop is working as a member of a team. Not sheeping, not letting others make decisions for him, not only laying out his theories, not only critiquing others. When I post, he checks the details, and he asks me questions. Not to push my lynch, but to test the theory, see if it holds water, see if I'm on the right track or off. He's genuinely reading this thread and interacting with it.

Alright, lets put it this way with the massive number of mslynches and shots at robber we have here what do you think robber would be attempting to do? Push lynches and create enemies and make themselves look bad in the future or attempt to stand back, question people, create doubt and state indefinitive answers?

It's that everything seems to boil down to mechanics here. Mechanics are safe ways to have reads for two reasons. The first is they don't require effort. "A, B, and C are true, Captain, therefore Player X it is approximately 64.831% likely they are non-town." The second is that if you're scum, you don't shoot players who suspect you for mechanical reasons, unless the rest of the thread is herp-a-derp. If A, B, and C all point to you likely being scum today, they'll all point to you likely being scum tomorrow, you don't shoot the guy stating the obvious, you shoot the people who are reading you, watching you, interpreting what's happening.

I've been focusing on mechanics so much because organisation of actions and use of mechanics in that way can greatly improve our night actions and chance at creating an autowin or near autowin situation. Sure though, fuck mechanics for a second, our town-read on Newman has nearly nothing to do with game mechanics and nearly never has the only read I would say that I've stuck with due to mechanics for the wrong reasons would be LLD. That was moreso because Slaxx was constantly telling me that the PR claims meant that either none or both of you were mafia and I had a strong as fuck town-read on you therefore insisted you were both likely town due to it.

Okay, money where mouth is, Regfan, if you had the night kill right now, and Hiphop flipped town, who would you deep six? Would you finish off Newman, the man sure to be town for his willingness to be shot at night to prove how townie he is (just not lynched so that his valuable auctions he's won like... errr... can be last willed to someone - 'cause he's incapable of using the system to mail money out).

Honestly, if this happened I probably would spent two entire days re-reading this thread and likely make a last minute decision to no-kill. If I had to kill someone it would potentially be Seacore because I still don't see Newmanrobber being possible and the strength of the town-read I have on you is incredibly strong along with Voided being clear. Though I'd need to have a discussion with Slaxx as even though he's losing interest with this game he'd be able to level my thoughts.

[HellloooNewman]

GreyIce makes some interesting points. Ethos has indeed been in the drivers seat for a LOT of the game, herding discussion around themselves, instead of at them. After some of the shitty mislynches......well, why not.

Vote - Ethos

[hiphop]

Playing dnd, so I am keeping this short. A lynch without stating who gets what from the auctions, is not a good idea.

[GreyICE]

Gi, if Ethos was the robber, why would he RB you? I believe a Newman lynch would be better.

And yes, I am pretty sure based on the Qt, that you would kill either Void or Hn, not Ethos.

Why wouldn't he RB me? Think about who I suggested VERY strongly I would kill in the QT. Not voided. Newman.

First that was the obvious - voided doesn't think he's getting the bullet, he doesn't duck it.

But think about it for a second. Ethos claimed to be RBed the night Newman had Peace Treaty and no kill went through. LLD had the night kill according to voided.

Every indication was that she could have shot Newman and chose not to. Now assume Newman isn't the robber (and frankly LLD would be LESS likely to shoot him if she thought he was the robber, scum on scum infighting that doesn't earn you any town cred when there's that many dead scumbags is just dumb and LLD would never be described by anyone as in any way stupid). Is the robber likely to want Newman dead at this stage?

Nah. If Newman isn't the robber, then he hardly has the cash to threaten the robber in winning bids compared to other townies right now, and chances are he'll be lynched or shot eventually. The more resources the town expends with him alive, at this stage, the better for the robber. Robber has to be playing for a later game than this at 5:1 - he has to get a night kill, for fucks sake, before he does anything else

There's plenty of reasons a robber would want Newman nice and alive. LLD wanted Newman alive, Robber has very similar motivations to do the same.

[hiphop]

Actually, I wanted Voided to think he was getting the bullet. Then, if he was the robber, he would attempt to RB you, which is where I came in to track him. Then we would know for certain he was the robber.

So, we should have

Commuter- Grey Ice.
Graverobber- Seacore
Nk-Voided
Watcher- Me

Though it might be best if Voided took watcher, Seacore nk, and myself Graverobber. For reasons that voided might not have the funds to compete with the robber for the nk.

[GreyICE]

Voided pushing for Graverobber makes more sense, because if he loses that, we get a night of lag time before the night kill is in scum hands, unless we have ReaperCharlie resolution in this game.

I might bid minimum on commuter, but not more. Scum winning it is not exactly a heartbreak, since the scum can RB our NKer anyway. I guess for if we lose control of the night kill, but at that point it needs to be Seacore or Voided bidding on it. Haha, I have an idea:

Seacore and Voided, both bid $25 on the commuter at some point in the next 12-36 hours (after the sunday vote count, but before the monday one). Whoever bids first will be winning, whoever bids second will lose $1 (since you don't win if your bid isn't higher). Don't announce it in thread, do it whenever. Scum can overbid you, costing them funds they can use on NK, at which point whoever is winning can push it up or let it be lost if they don't want to spend the money. If scum doesn't touch it, they can't safely shoot either of you, since either of you could have the commuter, and whoever has it will be commuting. There will be no way to tell based on in-thread activity, since both of you will submit the bid.

That pushes any scum won night kills off of you two, at the low cost of $25. Or makes them fight for the right to steal an ability they'll never effectively use.

[GreyICE]

And there's always the small, small possibility I throw my hat in the ring for $25 too.

Never been a scum controlled kill in this game, we'll keep it that way.

[hiphop]

Seacore, needs to win nk. He has hitman, and he has the funds to win it. And I agree Voided should get commuter, this would allow him to stay alive another night. Also, voided should not get graverobber. Someone else should, because that it is the only way to tell whether voided was lying about whether or not lld had ninja(a move that can hide targets from other people). Which was why I said I should get graverobber. I have the funds to win it at least. Or we could have Seacore split his money for nk, and graverobber. If that is the solution, then I might as well as transfer my money to a few people. I just rather not, being that I have over $900, funds enough to win just about anything.

[GreyICE]

I'd prefer a little WIFOM about where protective abilities like commuters and doctors end up, so don't want any certainty in whose winning that. The 'both bid $25' allows that with the chance that scum choose to bid $25 too and get in before either of them.

For the mechanics, that works for me. I'll probably just transfer my cash to people I trust, I'm out of the big leagues for bidding purposes.

[hiphop]

Seacore should have enough to bid something on Commuter, and still win the nk. And yes it would be best if neither of them stated whether or not who won it.

[hiphop]

There is something else, if Ethos was planning on winning RB, why would he tell me to bid all I had on the Rb. And there was the fact that he would have had the $300 on cop, plus the $500 on RB, when there is no indication that the sk ought to have that many funds, unless the SK get about the same wages as what we get.

[GreyICE]

There is something else, if Ethos was planning on winning RB, why would he tell me to bid all I had on the Rb. And there was the fact that he would have had the $300 on cop, plus the $500 on RB, when there is no indication that the sk ought to have that many funds, unless the SK get about the same wages as what we get.

Duuude, we can argue about how much funds he gets all we want, but he gets the same or more than town, this seems OBVIOUS

[hiphop]

I guess I will have to accept that. Everyone alive seems to be that way.

[GreyICE]

Well I mean what's the point of a role that doesn't get its own night kill, doesn't win with the town, prevents the town from winning, and gets less money than any single townie?

I mean do we call that 'designated loser' or what?

[Voidedmafia]

Seacore, needs to win nk. He has hitman, and he has the funds to win it.

*ahem*

you keep forgetting. I've had Hitman since D3.

[hiphop]

Seacore, needs to win nk. He has hitman, and

he has the funds to win it.

Read the bolded.

[Voidedmafia]

...and that is...where, again? I never said that.

Newman: You ignored my question here.

[hiphop]

Seacore, needs to win nk. He has hitman, and

he has the funds to win it.

fixed, messed up the quotes.