Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Yosarian2]

Eh, xvart could be scum, I suppose. I must say, though, I really dislike the excuse in post 3265 that Zdenek gave for voting him:

So Xvart is scummy for *knowing* that Cobblerfone is scum and then using that flip to line up Flameaxe's lynch. Of course Cobbler is probably town, so that implication won't apply, and is really just an attempt by Xvart to distance himself from Flameaxe.

Either of them can go today. Since there is more support for Xvart's lynch, I'll go there for now.

Vote Xvart

As reasons for voting someone goes, that one is pretty terrible, all around. It sounds like he's voting Xvart because he thinks Xvart is linked to Flameaxe, but we don't even know Flameaxe's alignment at this point, Zdenek hasn't even really made a case against Flameaxe. All in all, this just sounds to me like he's voting Xvart out of pure self preservation, he just wants to push a wagon that's not him/

[Cobblerfone]

Actually, Zdenek tried to make a case against him a few game days ago.

@Zdenek:

Is there a reason you didn't just default back to Flameaxe after you unvoted bvoigt? Wait. Why did you unvote bvoigt?

Cobber, why am I town?

Just the way you've been posting, the fact that you matched his protective claims was good. Though, it's possible you were pretending you didn't look them up.

and he's softclaimed to be a PR

Assuming you're referring to me....what are you on about?[/quote]

Role-wise you would be more useful as long as you're town. Actually, I think I might switch to you or zdnenek now.

[Mr. Flay]

Fifth Vote Count of Day Five:

xvart - 5 (Magister Ludi, Cobblerfone, Bunnylover, Amrun, Zdenek)
Zdenek - 3 (bvoigt, Nobody Special, Yosarian2)
Cobblerfone - 2 (Flameaxe, xvart)
Flameaxe - 1 (Battousai)
bvoigt - 1 (ConSpiracy)
Nobody Special - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)

Not Voting - Herodotus, ooba

With fifteen voters, it will take eight votes to lynch.

[Zdenek]

Tell me your point then. All I got out of it was that NS did something anti-town and I did something that was pro-town. I really don't see the difference.

No. NS killed Andrius for a stupid reason that scum would be loathe to give; whereas you killed off people who could justify killing off. I'm not arguing that either of you are scum (or pro-town for that matter) for what you've done, but I can hardly see scum NS explaining his actions in that way.

As reasons for voting someone goes, that one is pretty terrible, all around. It sounds like he's voting Xvart because he thinks Xvart is linked to Flameaxe, but we don't even know Flameaxe's alignment at this point, Zdenek hasn't even really made a case against Flameaxe. All in all, this just sounds to me like he's voting Xvart out of pure self preservation, he just wants to push a wagon that's not him/

I've tried to explain why I think Flameaxe is scum, but no one else seems to care about him at all, so I'm going to co-operate with others for now. Plus distancing can be a reliable scum-tell even before flips.

@Zdenek: Is there a reason you didn't just default back to Flameaxe after you unvoted bvoigt? Wait. Why did you unvote bvoigt?

bvoigt's flavor was corroborated by LLD, so he's very likely telling the truth about being unrecruitable. Of course there is a chance they are scum together, but doubt that's the case.

[Magister Ludi]

Zdenek

Early on day one he seems pretty resonable trying to figure out who the optimal night one recruit would be, making judgment calls looking back on that I agree with an adopting a pretty open tone when talking to people. I don't think he was recruited day one, for a variety of reasons, play, stature, so it will make sense to compare subsequent days with this one.

Day Two: Post four times over this period Sun Jun 19 - Sat Jul 2 which is a godawful level of activity. Does claim v/la, so I'm not sure anything can be read into here. Still, if you wanted to recruit him, night two could be optimal

Day Three: When referring to the DGB's suspicion of Katsuki, his way of latching on seems a little forced:

I'll have to look harder at Katsuki.

His iso 30 definintly comes across as a very careful and methodical post, which is a different feeling I get from his earlier day one stuff.

I show up in the Iso! Wooo. I think I did raise some valid concern there, because zdenek made a weird statement

All in all, he is either scum or very lazy town.

Which in a cult game Is indesicive enough to possibly mean cult. You want to be a little firmer with your accusations. Also, he spent several posts establishing what is true for most players (either town or cult)

Later: A few weaker votes, and some circular logic, he doesn't want to list claimed VT's but then his lynch list is over 50% of them, sheeping onto xvart in a wierd way (not that I mind).

I could move my vote here, after reading this.

[ConSpiracy]

I'm back.

Bvoigt is not going to be lynched, sadly.

Vote: Zdenek

I like the attacks from others on him.

[Zdenek]

bvoigt appears to be voting me because I think Flameaxe is scum, which is a dumb reason. I really think that he's voting me because he thinks I'm scum every time we play together and can't help it.

NS is voting me as part of Cobblerfone's silly plan.

Yos is voting me because I didn't object to a mass-claim, because I've been V/LA and trying to outguess the mod.

ML is attacking me for making a careful and methodical post and being a little indecisive. His first point under later is vague and the lynch list issue was a coincidence.

I fail to see how any of this actually points to me being scum seeing as how thinking someone is scum is not scummy, based purely on the number of people in the game and and possible number of recruits a mass-claim was not clearly a bad idea, and being careful is not a scum-tell.

[ooba]

Please don't lynch until I have my say. Forcing myself to finish the claim re-read once I'm back from work.
Expect a post in

(expired on 2011-08-09 20:59:59)

[Amrun]

I could lynch zdenek due to his claim vs mine and his iso.
I see less in xvart's iso to lynch.

VOTE: zdenek

P-edit: being careful actually is a scumtell.

[Magister Ludi]

Zdenek, what I was reading was a change in tone from first few days to later few days. You're 'careful' post didn't seem as forceful as you day one play had, with a lot of reads that felt like 'feeler' reads, testing the waters and talking sometimes for the sake of talking.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, what I was reading was a change in tone from first few days to later few days. You're 'careful' post didn't seem as forceful as you day one play had, with a lot of reads that felt like 'feeler' reads, testing the waters and talking sometimes for the sake of talking.

There was a good chance that I was in the process of catching up.

[Flameaxe]

Role-wise you would be more useful as long as you're town.

Should I understand this?

Unvote, Vote: Zdenek

. Still relevant to my vote.

[Zdenek]

My view of this is that the wagon on me is a counter-wagon to the wagon on Xvart. If I was picking scum on my wagon, Flameaxe is my first choice, followed by Conspiracy. I'm a bit surprised that Yosarian's top suspects are me and Cobblerfone. It looks like he's just hunting for easy lynches, and he was a potential recruit pre-game.

[Herodotus]

So I'm mostly in support of lynching Z. But I want to hear from ooba (after his last post, I'm secretly hoping to see the first round of Magister/Herodotus scumteam speculation). And I have a question for Z that I'm trying to figure out how to carefully phrase. (Basically, I'm wondering if there is more information from his role that he isn't claiming.)

[Zdenek]

I have nothing else to claim.

I guarantee that I am town.

[Cobblerfone]

bvoigt's flavor was corroborated by LLD, so he's very likely telling the truth about being unrecruitable. Of course there is a chance they are scum together, but doubt that's the case.

ah. It was the choice of words that was weird, you said you were "happy with his claim", and since his claim was what you actually said made you vote for him I wanted to ask you to try to catch you in a lie. I actually think zdenek's recent responses sound honest. In which case, Flameaxe may be the better vote. I'll just have to reread some stuff tomorrow.

UNVOTE

of safety!

[Magister Ludi]

Point of order.

1. have ooba post
2. Have everyone absent for two days or more post again (NS, LLD)
3. Question for Yosarian
4. Chat some more
5. Lynch

[bvoigt]

I'm back.

Bvoigt is not going to be lynched, sadly.

Vote: Zdenek

I like the attacks from others on him.

Anything else to say from the last few pages? I believe I asked you a question.

bvoigt appears to be voting me because I think Flameaxe is scum, which is a dumb reason. I really think that he's voting me because he thinks I'm scum every time we play together and can't help it.

Yeah, my original vote was because I thought your cases on Flameaxe and me contained poor, "stretchy" reasoning. Plus, your posts just give me a bad feeling. Since then, you made this oddly passive statement, and supported the lynches of 2 claimed VTs despite not thinking that scum would claim VT.

Also, we've played two games together; you've been town once and scum once, but I've been wrong both times. Is that correct?

[Kinetic]

I feel that I need to weigh in on these tense talks.

My feelings are expressed best by this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbq_1Wy70rE

[Battousai]

Tell me your point then. All I got out of it was that NS did something anti-town and I did something that was pro-town. I really don't see the difference.

No. NS killed Andrius for a stupid reason that scum would be loathe to give; whereas you killed off people who could justify killing off. I'm not arguing that either of you are scum (or pro-town for that matter) for what you've done, but I can hardly see scum NS explaining his actions in that way.

Assume I am your cult master, and told you to kill Andrius. Now, days later it is time for mass claim. Tell me how scum would explain that kill to town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm willing to lynch Zdenek for his post about Battousai vs. NS.

[ooba]

Ok. Here goes:

Hero\ML

- I've had thoughts with the cult masonary declared by ML-Hero from about yesterday night. You already know my theory on how pregame recruitment was handled ("Kinetic\ABR sends a list of list of three names; remove unrecruitables and choose one randomly of those left"). So does that mean if ML\Hero were recruited - it's auto-lose for the recruiter? (Since the other would claim D1 and get the recruit lynched).
- I'm not giving much credence to the above because it is based on a speculative theory of mine. But the other thing about this confuses me even more. Put yourself in Kinetic's position. D3 - ABR's team is gone. He has at least one recruit at that time. Wouldn't the best move be to recruit Hero and get him lynched on D4? Because otherwise - I'm running the risk of targeting a unrecruitable on N4 and Hero targeting my recruit(s). (Yeah there was the fact that cult doctors targeted Hero on that night - but those were suboptimal moves)
- However, that said - their play this day appears pro-town and does not give me "Cult'd" vibes. I'm either wrong about the above assumptions in the CR play or Kinectic has probably tried to recruit Hero and failed.
Overall: Both are town.

bvoigt

- The unrecruitable vibe was too hard to miss.
- Night actions are suboptimal but that doesn't make him cult - in fact, I'd argue to the contrary that if cult'd, his claim would have been better.
Overall: Town.

LLD

- By extension, I also expect this cult doc to be unrecruitable.
Overall: Town

NS\Batt

- I can personally at test that I've watched both people making one of their kills.
-- I lied about the N3 result. I watched the bank and actually saw both Batt and SL waking into the bank together. (So you can understand my suspicions. I framed my results and my probing in such a way so as to make the "mysterious stranger" appear scum and give Batt the option of claiming not to be him. He didn't bite.)
-- Not claiming when I saw NS making a kill but saw him walking into one of the target's locations on the night of the kill.
- Vig's were unrecruitable last time. (Don't claim if otherwise please)
Overall: Neither of the kill choices were bad. Should be considered town if they hit cult in the coming nights. Definitely not today's lynch.

Not much to say on the others but townish vibes on Cobbler and Flameaxe (even though he switches to Zdenek).

---

Yos

- See a lost of people writing off Yos because he was JK'd all four nights. He can be a pregame recruit.
- Very strong xvart support with the push on Zdenek. Is cult if vxart turns up cult.

Doc Tajo - Amrun

- Saw a distinct shift in D3 play


I scumhunt by associations and who chooses to attack who. Based on that and the above town reads, I think xvart is cult'd and once he flips, we should take a look at those promoting alternate lynches for scum. My guess is on:

xvart - 5 (Magister Ludi, Cobblerfone, Bunnylover, Amrun, Zdenek)
Zdenek - 3 (bvoigt, Nobody Special,

Yosarian2

)
Cobblerfone - 2 (Flameaxe,

xvart

)
Flameaxe - 1 (Battousai)
bvoigt - 1 (

ConSpiracy

)
Nobody Special - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)

Not Voting - Herodotus, ooba

Vote: xvart

---

Also, I'd like to suggest a mini-plan for the night:
- One of the docs (bvoigt) protects me
That would mean Kinetic's recruit can fail in two ways - LLD protecting that person or me watching the recruit target (instalynch tomorrow)

Also I'd like each of you to confirm base location for my watching - this list is based on the clippings and assumption so would like this corrected.

Name	Location
Hiro Battousai, Bank Clerk	36. Merchants-Produce Bank
Bunny Lover, Factory Worker	1. Chase Bag Company
Father B. Voigt, Priest	8. Holy Rosary Catholic Church
Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith, Bartender (formerly Cecily)	34. Nikos Bar and Grill
Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster	9. Lloyd-Adams Transfer and Storage
Dripping Goofball, Dancer/Entertainer	31. Limelight Cabaret
Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson	22. River Quay Journal
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer	33. Harlow's Night Club
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop	3. Police Garage/Substation
Katsuki Saito, Bartender	4. Victoria Station restaurant
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop	???
John "Nobody Special" Doe, Business Owner	7. Delaware Daddy's
Doc "Popular" Tajo, Doctor	2. St. Mary's Hospital
Andrius Raudhr, Teamster (formerly RaudhrGarm)	12. Langsford Funeral Home
Seraphim, Junkie	24. Papa Nick's Wine Cellar
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker	36. Merchants-Produce Bank
Tanarin Oswald, Dock Worker	10. Uncle Joe's Tavern
Mike "The Admiral" Howell, Personal Trainer	35. Garrison Athletic Center
Anahito Xvart, Teamster	13. B & B Distributing
Yosarian Johnson, Cook	26. Dinkeldorf's Deli
Mr. Zdenek, Pharmacist	23. Getz Prescription Shop
Max "Chrono" P. Warner, (Town) Photographer/Private Investigator	28. Warner Photographic Studio
Alan "Mr. Dry-Fit Shall I Be" Wilson, Warehouse Supervisor/Townie	20. Sid's Warehouse / Sterling Company
Charles "Chaz" Poro, Recruited Business Owner/Goon	27. Yesterday's Girl

If you do not correct something which is incorrect in this list & I find out via a watch - I'll consider it as a "culled" claim.

[Amrun]

Since when is bvoigt a doctor?

Also my name is slightly ldiff from listed.

[Magister Ludi]

Amrun, bvoigt claimed unrecruitable cult doctor.

Ooba, I am at 3.Police Garage/Substation.

Lets also ask this now. Why does 14 have that red explosion about it. And what is the place with a question mark on it?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... uaymap.png

[Amrun]

Oh, right.

I keep getting all the claims mixed up.

I can't wait until I get some computer access (thurs-fri) as computers make catch-ups much easier to do.