~~Mini 1216: S.M.H. (A.S.N.P.T.) Mafia GAME OVER!!! WOOO~~

[JAMFTW]

Just trying to get a handle on the names in this game. The first time I saw a vote for teamsleep, I thought that was some kind of vote for some type of mechanic that I was unaware of, lol.

Well, might as well vote for one of the other strong, silent types. Or at least...silent types.

VOTE: Sleuth

It makes no sense to vote for one of the two people who have yet to read their PMs.

[JAMFTW]

Otherwise, what? Last I checked, there hadn't been too much more in the way of action. There has now.

Also, and this will be more than a little of the pot calling the kettle black here:

Sleuth, add more to the discussion. My vote was on you initially because you hadn't talked at all. And my confidence in you as a possible scum to lynch has increased since then. Your contributions thus far have been...lacking. My vote is staying where it is until a better target rears its ugly head.

As far as this whole "RNG IS TEH BAD!" vs "NUH UH!" debate goes. It's silly. And pointless. I was witness to this just awful game over on Myth-Weavers where a good many pages had devolved into some type of "statistics as the best way to hunt scum" debate that was mind-numbingly painful. Not to mention the guy espousing the view that randomly picking targets was a good way to hunt wound up as scum (at least, I'm pretty sure that's how it shook out). So any discussion that closely resembles that (in this case, the whole RNG thing) makes me wary. And anyone that argues too hard for RNG as a good way to scum hunt is immediately scummy in my eyes (can't help it. gut reaction).

Having said that, this conversation hasn't gotten that far. It's only in reference to the initial vote, so not nearly as bad.

Haola has a good point as to why it would be scummy, but overall I think if scum is paranoid about being found out due to their initial vote, they would just refrain from voting until more substance showed up (though I don't feel that this is a die-hard, be-all/end-all way to hunt scum. Just an idea).

[JAMFTW]

A quickhammer? Really, Gaylord? OK, someone is hopping to the top of my suspicious list.

>.<

I'm not sure if Killer is scum or a VI, but either way, it's hard to say the lynch is undeserved, given his actions. With the votes piling up the way that they did, and the quickhammer being dropped, I'm inclined to think that Killer will flip town. Assuming he does, we definitely need to look closer at some of the people on that wagon during the upcoming Night phase, and grill em come Day Two. Even if he flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised if his scum buddy (buddies?) bussed him, so it would still probably be a good idea to look at the people on the wagon.

[JAMFTW]

Vote: Gaylord Focker

I'm with teamsleep on this one. No townie in their right mind should EVER quickhammer, overeager or not.

[JAMFTW]

Haola, the last game I was in, I wasn't paying attention to the vote count and voted for this guy. No one (with the exception of the person who set the trap up) realized that it wasn't, in fact, a quick hammer, but a trap set up by the guy paying the most attention to the vote counts. The entire group ripped me a new asshole, despite my protestations and explanations, never mind the fact that I was actually town. Needless to say, I wound up lynched that day and learned a valuable lesson. It's never a good thing to end a Day early when more discussion can be had. Not to mention waiting until the very last second (figuratively speaking) to let a person claim their role (assuming they have one).

This experience may have colored my viewpoint a bit, but I feel very justified in voting for the person who ended the day early. And the only reason I was "quick to jump on the wagon" was because teamsleep beat me to it. I would have been first on the wagon had I gotten to the thread before him.

[JAMFTW]

Also, I want to give the threads a head up: Starting today, the 17th, and going through the 23rd, I have what I've been calling "hell week" coming up. I start my new job, and I'll be working 7pm - 7am seven days in a row. I will try and get on to keep up and give my two cents, but if I'm quiet for more than a day or two, you'll know why.

[JAMFTW]

Hey there, want to pop in real quick. Still following along, but this seven days straight of twelve hour shifts is a lot more time consuming than I initially thought. My hell week officially ends Wednesday morning, but I won't be in any condition to analyze til later Wednesday afternoon. Sorry for my long absence. If ant would feel better replacing me, I'd understand.

[JAMFTW]

Some quick reads of mine for the road:

Don_johnson: Leaning town

Benmage: Ehh...could go either way

Lewarcher: Leaning town

Gaylord: Scum. Needs to be lynched.

Teamsleep: Null

Hoala/Captain: Town

Hell: Unsure

Mafia: Unsure

Lurconis: Leaning scum

Sleuth: Leaning scum

My unsure reads stem more from my limited availability. Will have more in-depth come Wednesday/Thursday

[JAMFTW]

Hey all, I'm back. Sorry for the extended absence. The seven day work week was kinda crazy, but doable. The one or two days of recovery afterwards was unforseen. Of course, it didn't help that I was on night shift for that week of work and then I had to readjust my schedule to be back on day shift. Ugh. Been a lazy slob. Alright. We do need to start lynching scum. It's imperative, though I doubt the "four scum" scenario.

I do say it's somewhat lucky that scum haven't hit any PR's so far.

I'm also somewhat surprised gay flipped town. Lew was one of my stronger town reads, and ben was null leaning scummy, but after the role fishing done by both, now I'm not so sure. Will have to go back and see if anything major sticks out from either player.

And this suddenness of the capitulation on TS's part...I'm not sure how to read that. Could be scum wanting to stay quiet to try and protect scumbuddies, or it could be some kind of fed up townie thing. TS, I would encourage you to keep playing, especially if you're town. Even if you get lynched today, reads of any kind would help. Stir up the pot, get others to talk. It'll help in the long run.

For as far in to this game as we are, we don't have many pages of content. And a portion of it seems to be catty bickering among three or four players.

I know Sleuth needs to speak up or get replaced.

I know I don't have much ground to stand on in this matter, but Lurconis hasn't said much more than one or two lines a post (and only two or three posts in that time period) in the past four or five pages (well, pages according to my page layout. I'm not sure if this site allows you to change posts per page or not. Not something I generally look into. I tend to leave things at default). Will go back earlier and see if any of his other posts stick out at me.

[JAMFTW]

Right, because I agree with a view given by another player means I am sheeping.

You're right. So totally, and unequivocally, right.

I hope this sarcasm is translating properly because I'm laying it on pretty thick.

Incidentally, I say pretty much the same thing about you, too, Lew. You either ignored it, accidentally or on purpose, to try and make something out of nothing. Way to get all twisty.

[JAMFTW]

@DJ: I'm 26. Relevance?

[JAMFTW]

I've completed one other game on this site, and I'm currently playing in one other as well.

I have somewhere between 10 and 15 games under my belt over on myth-weavers.com. That is the extent of my mafia exposure. Over on the weave, a lot of the games tend to be a bit more vanilla, so I'm still getting used to the variety here on a site dedicated to the game.

To be honest, my meta tends toward VI (of course, if you'd like to read through my games, I'm more than happy to provide link-age for you to do so). There was a stretch of like three-ish games (I think) where I kept getting killed Night One by Mafia (which was especially good for them in one game, as I was the cop and had successfully deduced who one of the mafia members was. Before I could set up a post to attempt to get the wagon on said mafia member rolling without declaring what my pr was, I was nked).

[JAMFTW]

@JAMFTW: how many game of mafia have you completed? Is this one of your first ones or are you a more experienced player? I am looking for your meta.

not quite what i was getting at, but i was reading you as a teenager. in your mid-20's i was thinking you should sound a bit different. there was something "off" to me about your posting on day 1, and its reared its head today as well. when i get more time tonight i will put together something to better explain it.

Also, what in the holy hell? Just because someone is a certain age, it doesn't mean they have to necessarily sound a certain way. Case in point, many people that rant and rave on forums and the like sound like they're in their teens, but usually wind up being a lot older than all that.

[JAMFTW]

Apologies for not getting around to this sooner.

I have somewhere between 1

0 and 15 games under my belt over on myth-weavers.com.

........
To be honest, my meta tends toward VI .

Not familiar with the site...is it so radically different than here? 10-15 games and still newb? Playing the newbcard?

Myth-weavers is not dedicated to the game of Mafia. It is a Play by Post site mainly used for DnD and other rpgs as well. I had no experience with Mafia before playing here, and never really went through the whole hand-holding newb type games to get my head around it. While I'm not trying to claim to be a newb, I do claim some ignorance to the more intricate/involved aspects of the game.

its not a question of attitude, but of wisdom and content. disclaimer: iso reads can be taken out of context. try not to misinterpret my post as a series of accusations, it is a series of inquiries to which i expect a response. a quote wall response is unnecessary, so i will number questions for you.

Just trying to get a handle on the names in this game. The first time I saw a vote for teamsleep, I thought that was some kind of vote for some type of mechanic that I was unaware of, lol.

right out the gate you're posting like a teenager. then your "random" vote isplaced on a silent player while you state that there is no sense in voting players who have not read their pms. i don't see the difference. 1) i'm sure one can be explained, but in the random stage, what's the

real

difference?

Also, and this will be more than a little of the pot calling the kettle black here:

Sleuth, add more to the discussion. My vote was on you initially because you hadn't talked at all. And my confidence in you as a possible scum to lynch has increased since then. Your contributions thus far have been...lacking. My vote is staying where it is until a better target rears its ugly head.

^^ admission of hipocrisy. 2) why not change the vote here? if its the pot calling the kettle black, then why not just self vote? what is your vote accomplishing here?

As far as this whole "RNG IS TEH BAD!" vs "NUH UH!" debate goes. It's silly. And pointless. I was witness to this just awful game over on Myth-Weavers where a good many pages had devolved into some type of "statistics as the best way to hunt scum" debate that was mind-numbingly painful. Not to mention the guy espousing the view that randomly picking targets was a good way to hunt wound up as scum (at least, I'm pretty sure that's how it shook out). So any discussion that closely resembles that (in this case, the whole RNG thing) makes me wary. And anyone that argues too hard for RNG as a good way to scum hunt is immediately scummy in my eyes (can't help it. gut reaction).

^^ this is a complete misrep of the conversation. noone was arguing that "rng is a good way to hunt scum".

but overall I think if scum is paranoid about being found out due to their initial vote, they would just refrain from voting until more substance showed up

3) ^^ do you see how this correlates to your own behavior?

I'm not sure if Killer is scum or a VI, but either way, it's hard to say the lynch is undeserved, given his actions. With the votes piling up the way that they did, and the quickhammer being dropped, I'm inclined to think that Killer will flip town. Assuming he does, we definitely need to look closer at some of the people on that wagon during the upcoming Night phase, and grill em come Day Two. Even if he flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised if his scum buddy (buddies?) bussed him, so it would still probably be a good idea to look at the people on the wagon.

4) do you think anyone off the wagon is scummy at all, or needs to be looked at? you are basically saying that you don't like the wagon regardless of the flip. is the wagon more or less scummy now?

Don_johnson: Leaning town

Benmage: Ehh...could go either way

Lewarcher: Leaning town

Gaylord: Scum. Needs to be lynched.

Teamsleep: Null

Hoala/Captain: Town

Hell: Unsure

Mafia: Unsure

Lurconis: Leaning scum

Sleuth: Leaning scum

^^ compared to:

killerX029 (7): teamsleep, Lurconis, Mafiafixed, Hellhound1, don_johnson, killerX029, Gaylord Focker,

so you have 3 scum reads at this point, 2 of whom were on the wagon. 5) please expand on the lurconis read.

Lew was one of my stronger town reads, and ben was null leaning scummy, but after the role fishing done by both, now I'm not so sure. Will have to go back and see if anything major sticks out from either player.

6) when was ben "leaning scum" for you? i don't recall you commenting on or contributing to my case against him. in fact, you haven't mentioned him before except for your earlier read of "could go either way"...

I know Sleuth needs to speak up or get replaced.

I know I don't have much ground to stand on in this matter, but Lurconis hasn't said much more than one or two lines a post (and only two or three posts in that time period) in the past four or five pages (well, pages according to my page layout. I'm not sure if this site allows you to change posts per page or not. Not something I generally look into. I tend to leave things at default). Will go back earlier and see if any of his other posts stick out at me.

a giant fence sit with a "hey, lets attack the low content players." this is classic scum behavior imo.

vote: jamftw

please answer the questions.

1) There is a rather large difference, I feel, between voting for someone who has checked in and is remaining quiet as opposed to a person that hasn't even checked in yet. If you've checked in, you're basically making a promise to the group that you're around, not too busy, and ready to play. To remain quiet for an extended period afterwards is stretching into lurking territory. If you've yet to check in/read your pm, this says to me that you are busy elsewhere, and perhaps now don't have time for the game as you would have when you signed up (real life has extraordinary ways to be a bitch like that). This person will either check in later or get replaced. I think it's a waste of a vote to vote for someone who has yet to acknowledge their commitment to the game.

2) Why self-vote when Sleuth was seeming scummy? I put my vote where I think the scum are.

3) No, I don't see how that pertains to me. This leads back to point one. Sleuth had read his pm and responded, thereby making his commitment to the game. Enough people had added in their two cents (eight total at that point, I believe?) where I felt a little prod was necessary. And Sleuth's posts afterwards did little to convince me to remove said vote.

4) Honestly, gaylord was looking the scummiest on that wagon, given the quickhammer. Given what we know now, I'm not so sure.

5) Much how you didn't like the "tone" of my messages, there was something that didn't quite sit right with me. He disappears for pages at a time, comes in and apologizes for being absent, give a paltry one or two cents worth of his thoughts and then disappears again. Not active lurking but...ehh, dunno.

6) With Ben it came down more to tone of posts. Not something to base a vote off of, so I didn't do so.

Lets massclaim quickly before it breaks the flow.

This. This right here is scummy. In an open game, sure it would work. It would also break the game (Saw it happen once. Some of the games over on Myth-Weavers that I've been a part of have outright forbidden the whole massclaiming thing. Not that I'm saying I have that big a problem with it). In a closed set-up, scum can pull some random role out of their ass (or just claim VT if it comes to it) and then they have a good idea of power roles for town. No no no no no.

2. We can keep scum from fakeclaiming.
3. We can narrow down the field of who might be scum a huge amount.

How do we know it's a fake claim if we're in a

closed setup.

Your argument is based off of faulty logic.

Vote: Empking

[JAMFTW]

I am looking at the wagons, I check the names of my major foses and the pattern always seems wrong...

for instance JAM, you realise that if Emp/Sleuth is scum, one of the two players voting him D1 was probably bussing him, right? And one was you, one was captain...

Why does it have to mean bussing was involved? The votes were on him early Day One. Seems a little too early for scum to be bussing fellow scum-mates. To me, at least.

I may have a bunch of games under my belt, but different people play scum differently, so while there may be some common practices employed, I find different people can bring different things to a game.

As it's generally frowned upon (to put it mildly) to discuss ongoing games, I am currently unable to give a for instance, though I can once the other game is over.

[JAMFTW]

@Christine: Welcome, and that cookie is friggin awesome. I wants one.

So far, Christine seems pretty, solidly town. Good opening posts filled with info and analysis.

Until now, lewarcher was one of my stronger town reads, but after this most string of posts interacting with haoala, I'm not so sure. They are arguing, sure, but seem to be arguing two different points. I get where haoala is coming from, and lew seems to be missing the point of his posts entirely and getting more than a little defensive about it.

Hellhound shows up after much prodding and much activity elsewhere, seemingly neglecting this one. He's shown good activity since, but it shouldn't have to take that long for responses, especially considering the amount of attention his absence was garnering.

I'm still not sure what to make of emp. I understand his posts regarding the massclaiming, but I still am not comfortable with allowing the scum to know what our PR's are.

Haoala continues to be a stronger town read.

Bens gone quiet again, promising more once we hear from lurconis. I'll reserve judgement until I see what, if anything, he has to say regarding lurconis.

Lurconis has decent activity when he's here, but is quiet a lot, too. At the moment, null read.

DJ is leaning town. He asks questions, prods and scumhunts. He and haoala (and lew) are the more active players driving the game forward, but as I said, I'm more suspicious of lew now.

I'm leaning emp, lew and hell as possible scum targets worthy of a lynch, and emp only because of the massclaim. To put in order:

1) Hell
2) Lew
3) Emp

[JAMFTW]

I second the joyous Birthday wishes

[JAMFTW]

What in the holy hell, Don? I understand your reasons for not wanting to go through with the massclaim, but that flat out refusal reeks of scumminess.

Vote: don_johnson

[JAMFTW]

To all: Be careful with the voting. Don's only two away from a lynch, and I don't want a quick hammer (accidental or otherwise) ending the day early...again -_-

I want to squeeze as much as we can out of this Day as possible.

[JAMFTW]

Right now, I'd have to say HH is scummier, though Ben is by no means an angel above suspicion.

[JAMFTW]

[quote="In

What in the holy hell, Don? I understand your reasons for not wanting to go through with the massclaim, but that flat out refusal reeks of scumminess.

Vote: don_johnson

You're lurking, and when you do post all you do is jump on a bandwagon?

Lurc and JAM, that sounds good.[/quote]

I'd call it less lurking and more, I don't have anything more to add at the moment that hasn't been said.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I was the second person to vote? I'd hardly call it a bandwagon when only one other person is on it at the time.

Not to mention, I'm sure there are others on here who would be all like "You have a problem with it, but you're not voting?"

It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios.

[JAMFTW]

Dammit, that post was screwed up quotes-wise. I'm going to try and re-do it.

[JAMFTW]

Here, here and here for instance.

I'll be honest captain it is more of a gut feel, there hasn't been any buddying or anything like that except maybe lew buddying you a bit. I get the same feeling from both of your posts. It is my understanding it isn't good to go off gut but i can't completly help it. I have had times with both of you I was convinced you were town and times when I was questioning that. I apologize I can't give you a more indepth answer but it is more of a gut feel.

So much explanation for a gut feel? Lol. And gut feel about us having the same alignment? I've never heard that one before.

@Christine, no offence, but we need you to read faster. You are going to look scummy if the day ends and all you've contributed is a summary of the thread.

What in the holy hell, Don? I understand your reasons for not wanting to go through with the massclaim, but that flat out refusal reeks of scumminess.

Vote: don_johnson

You're lurking, and when you do post all you do is jump on a bandwagon?

Lurc and JAM, that sounds good.

I'd call it less lurking and more, I don't have anything more to add at the moment that hasn't been said.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I was the second person to vote? I'd hardly call it a bandwagon when only one other person is on it at the time.

Not to mention, I'm sure there are others on here who would be all like "You have a problem with it, but you're not voting?"

It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios.

There, that looks much better. Not sure what happened. Still getting used to my new laptop, I guess. Stupid mouse touch-pad.

[JAMFTW]

I'll second Emp's thoughts on how the nurse claim is also an attempt at rolefishing. He never asked who a possible doc may have been, merely that he was hoping to draw the nk away from other power roles or get the protection of the doc.

Though I do agree that he's suspicious and I'm not too sure about his claim. I'm also not too sure about lynching a possible power role.

As for my voting for him, well, all I can say is that I'm putting my vote where I think the scum are. Not sure how I missed one of the other two votes on him, especially considering that they were back to back. Though I did also initially miss DJs claim. I can be supremely unobservant sometimes, especially when I'm speed reading.

@Emp: Whitelisted? I'm not familiar with the term. Answering this will probably answer my next question (which is similar/the same as Lurcs)

How common are Nurse roles?

[JAMFTW]

i would like jam/cap to expand on their rolefish accusations.

What? I didn't accuse you of rolefishing. I was actually disagreeing with Cap about that aspect. Looking back, I can see how that could be misconstrued. I did say I agree with Emp, and he was questioning the logic of Haoala's assertion that you were rolefishing.

[JAMFTW]

Hey everyone, CC here.
Also, just to let you know, my other head is a legend and did the spreadsheet by himself. That and most everything else

Time for me to pitch in. I've got a case here on Hellhound who I really haven't liked.
ISO #1:
This was a major topic of discussion D1. My other head thought HH was scummy because of the random vote. I disagree, I've seen town use random.org before, I don't think alignment changes anything.
Analysis: For all intents and purposes, this is a null post.
ISO #2:
I don't really like this post. He's attacking a

newbie

for

paranoia

. Anyone who's seen any newbie play should know all newbies are paranoid.
Analysis: Slightly scummy.
ISO #4:
HH basically assures everyone he is town for no apparant reason. Why? Because scum are paranoid that the town think they're scum.
Analysis: Scummy, scummy, scummy.
ISO #8:
Says Lurc's

only

content-filled post was null, then calls him town. This throws suspicion onto Lurc. If either of them flip scum, the other one will be next.
Analysis: Scum calling scumbuddy town is scummy.
ISO #11:
Was beginning to look a bit better with the previous posts (#9 and #10), but then votes TS out of nowhere. HH never even mentioned him once!
Analysis: Why is he not dead?
ISO #14:
Obvious rolfish is obvious
Analysis:
Scum-null

Urg, just noticed my battery's almost dead, the rest will come tomorrow.

Crap, two townie deaths?!

Also, the above. Haoala was pushing hard for HH's neck to be in the noose.

I will start for now by addressing haoala:

You mentioned lurc in the above post, as well. Your thoughts now on lurc since HH flipped town?

That was a very interesting night. I'm going to go back and see what sticks out at me. Should have a decent sized post up sometime tomorrow.

[JAMFTW]

haoala here.

Ok. So HH was town. Surprise. Obviously even lew thought so.

Christine is obvtown.

VOTE: JAMFTW

You overreacted. And you tried to frame HH's kill on me.H
Emp come over.

We are at mylo, right?

And feel free to use my VCA now.

Overreacted? Not sure I see that, but sure, whatever you say. I'd say your reaction to my simple question and line of thought is the overreaction. What with the voting for me and all. All I did was ask you a question. And place the HH kill on your head? Also not sure where you're getting that. I said that you were for his lynch yesterday, as were some other people. I'd be asking lew about it, as well, but he is both dead and town confirmed. Why on earth would any half-way decent scum NK HH? But enough about that. You want a massclaim? Alright. Fine. I understand why people ask for it, but at the same time part of me doesn't get it. Let's all claim our abilities and give the scum wonderful PR targets to aim at. Silly, silly, silly.

For the second time in nearly as many games, I am a jailkeeper. I can target someone at night to toss into jail. They can neither take any night actions, nor can they have any night actions taken against them.

While we're on the subject:

Haoala, what are you?

Any my question still stands: thoughts on lurc?

[JAMFTW]

@Haoala:

Yes, I am online. I've been going back through the thread and I have to say I'm not too sure who the remaining scum could be. Everyone's been adding content recently to keep the game moving forward. And as to the bit you quoted as my overreaction, I was expressing dismay over the fact that we wound up with two more townies down, whether the NK on HH was justified or not (assuming lew is the one that killed HH. Not sure what other types of possibilities there could be, given that we were on an odd night and all). If you want to read that as an overreaction, knock yourself out (which you have done. The reading bit, not the knocking yourself out bit).

As far as who I've been tossing into jail:

I tossed in gaylord night one. The quickhammer had me thinking scum with a possible power role.

As for nights two and three, Haoala, I tossed you in. For most of the game, you've been one of my strongest town reads, and my tossing you in was an attempt to keep you from getting NKed. Though with you claiming even night Tracker, I should just let you do your thing and toss someone else in. Assuming I make it through the Day, of course. Which currently looks unlikely.

[JAMFTW]

Hush, Lurc, hush. No discussion. DJ is right.

If JAM were town he'd know the game was lost. As he's scum he didn't think of that.

Right. This is another case of damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I had come out yelling and flailing and bringing up the vote count, you all would have construed it as a scum fear-mongering. You all are aware of the stakes. Or you should be. What use would be my reminding you of the fact?

[JAMFTW]

Good game, all, especially to my scum mates ben and (most especially) DJ.

My flying under the radar wasn't exactly on purpose, but it suited me well for a couple days, at least.

I am confused about Haoala claiming I blocked him Night One. Assuming he/they mistyped.

As for the claim, well, that was the tentative plan originally discussed and I tend to stick with ideas when I don't think of something better (which I usually don't. Not good at thinking on my feet, really. Something I need to work on).