Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Voidedmafia]

I'm gonna right out say it: Grey, you're fucking awesome with flavor.

Now then, for gaming purposes, I myself do not see need for RVS, and therefore will not participate. Don't stop on my account, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Hey grey thanks for giving me my nightmare fuel.

VOTE: Parama because you modded and played in a game before this that i was in. Hiphop you're next.

and also i have on been scum 4 out of 7 games...

So that's a claim, huh?

[Voidedmafia]

"I have been scum 4/7 games..."

Meh, it works.

[Voidedmafia]

That's the claim.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Not really substantial enough for a vote, but good enough for saying that in jest.

[Voidedmafia]

If Thomith is scummy, why make a second RVS vote?

OK, if Tomith is scummy, then why did you place another random vote?

Why not!

Um, wouldn't you usually vote your suspects? Even if this is RVS somewhat.

[Voidedmafia]

If Thomith is scummy, why make a second RVS vote?

OK, if Tomith is scummy, then why did you place another random vote?

Why not!

some people think double RVS votes come from scum, at least that is what Parama said in the last game we played.
I proved to him that it didn't but that is why people are grilling you, apparently on MS you are only allowed 1 RVS vote.

For me, it's more like, you've already pegged thomith as scummiest out of all of us at this point; why the hell aren't you pushing that suspicion?

[Voidedmafia]

His stance on the fact that he would rather random vote, then place a real vote.

Adding on to this, I ask again: Why are you not trying to push your biggest scumspect (even if only by a little) to verify or disclaim your suspicions, Neruz?

[Voidedmafia]

...Your use of ponies in place of people is slightly unsettling.

But both you and Hiphop have good points regarding Thomith. Could be scum bussing a partner, or town getting a bit too defensive, but I'm willing to go out on a limb about it.

Vote: Neruz

Town don't usually vote for no reasoning apart from in RVS, why would town vote for someone who they can't prove are scum? Wouldn't town want to find evidence before actually voting?

Yet, we're in RVS, somewhat. At this point, that slight scumread he has should be enough. You're just implicating him indirectly and starting to dig your own hole.

[Voidedmafia]

So town should vote someone who they don't have many points on. K.

You're confusing stages here. At this point there aren't many points to work with, so you have to adjust accordingly.

Also, calling someone scummy, and then NOT voting for that person is a good enough reason to vote.

[Voidedmafia]

So you are basically assuming everyone that defends someone is scum. So defending someone who you disagree with getting voted for the case on thim is scummy? Good to know.

Thank you for continuing to make baseless assumptions.

See, the thing is, we actually have a good reason to suspect Neruz, and your defense of him is both indirectly implicating him as being scum and making you out to be a suspect as well.

Besides, I don't think you or Neruz have really explained why he would call you scummy and then vote someone else because coming up with a seemingly legit case (however small it was) and the trying to mask things under the guise of RVS smells REALLY fishy.

Unvote, Vote: Thomith

Hip: I suppose that's also a point. Thomith is certainly digging a hole with his posts.

[Voidedmafia]

The person who I dislike the most, though, is Voidedmafia. Like Thomith, he has the same need to justify his actions during RVS.

What action? The joking thing about the claim, or my decision not to vote in RVS?

After attacking Neruz for the same thing in 3 different posts, he agrees with Thomith and Rainbowdash about Thomith and then finally places an overdue vote on Neruz before switching it to Thomith for no reasons besides sheeping other people.

Do note I actually brought up on or two of the original points against Thomith. Going to Neruz was more of a sheep than Thomith.

Notice when he places both of these votes is at a time when it looks like they could take off.

A bit too early for that, I think. Though this is merely coincidental.

Which leads me to believe that Neruz and Thomith would both be town if Voided flips scum because at that point it would be clear he was attempting to push mislynches off the ground.

A.) You're assuming I'm scum.
B.) You're assuming that, IF A is true, that I'm not bussing.

Nice to see you're taking my point to vote the person you suspect the most at this point in the game, though.

hiphop is really streching calling defense of Neruz a slip though, I think everypony has had town reads early on, or at very least somepony they believed was town against popular belief and therefore needed to defend.

You're saying someone thought that we were going in the wrong direction and thus needed to get us back on track?

This statement kinda confused me, so I'm asking for clarification.

I think the defense from Thomith is actually a minor town tell given the popular concensus of most ponies that one of Neruz and Thomith are scum.

That could just as easily be a minor scumtell since we don't know if Thomith is scum or not.

When Thomith is making very few attempts to push action elsewhere in the game, attempts to detract from the other existing wagon, even in early game, is something to look at.

True, all Thomith has done so far is pretty much just defend Neruz. I guess I'm not quite getting where you want to go with this statement.

[Voidedmafia]

hiphop is really streching calling defense of Neruz a slip though, I think everypony has had town reads early on, or at very least somepony they believed was town against popular belief and therefore needed to defend.

You're saying someone thought that we were going in the wrong direction and thus needed to get us back on track?

This statement kinda confused me, so I'm asking for clarification.

Your response confuses me quite a bit too.

I see zero way to call what was posted by Thomith a scum slip, at all. If he is town, its defending a town read, which everypony should be willing to do when town reads come under attack. I see this as town defending a town read instead of scum trying to get a wagon off a partner or buy town credit. The rest is just me saying that everypony probably has been in the situation like Thomith where they have a town read on somepony who most people think is scummy, and hopefully defended it.

Ah, got it.

I think the defense from Thomith is actually a minor town tell given the popular concensus of most ponies that one of Neruz and Thomith are scum.

That could just as easily be a minor scumtell since we don't know if Thomith is scum or not.

Do you not understand how this towntell functions? When everypony starts applying a "one of two" scenario, scum being targeted will rarely react like Thomith just did and try to defend the other in the pairing. Even more rare is them competely closing doors for a vote there like he has been doing, ergo its a town tell.

...I guess.

@WV - You are acting independantly based on assumptions of what the other will do if that even. The more together you two play, the easier it is for the rest of us to get reads from what you are doing. Im going to nip this in the tail before it gets too bad. Use your QT more.

Or maybe that's their plan, to keep independent and throw us off?

Okay, I'm gonna stop there before I talk myself into oblivion.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided:
1. The latter.

I've had people get on me when I just outright state I'm not RVSing, so I'm going for a more lax approach.

2. Noted. Admitted to sheeping. K.

Never said I sheeped. Just that voting Neruz would be more of a sheep than Thomith largely because I actually had original points against Thomith originally, instead of just building off or previous points for neruz.

3. This is the equivalent of the "you're taking RVS too seriously" argument.

I'm saying it's coincidental because it wouldn't have mattered if there were no votes or l-3, I probably would've done the same thing (I'm excluding L-2 and L-1 because those lead to L-1 and hammer with my vote, respectively, and that's not something you take lightly).

4A). Yes

More proof?

4B). Yes

More proof?

And there's also fucking ponies.

Word.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmm, must've gotten names wrong.

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you. So, your reason for voting me is baseless until you can think of something better.

[Voidedmafia]

Wow didn't check my PMs in a couple days and this game is out of rvs. So much the better I suppose. I read page one before I realized there were 6 pgs. Neruz would have been my vote but I need to catch.up

Would I be correct in assuming that you'd be voting Neruz for the same reason we've been harping on him?

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, right, if I think you're scum. Had a post on that, then stupidly got it deleted by clicking on a bookmark. But anyways, I checked through the first couple pages up to when I switched to you, and I didn't really see much reason for me to vote you, so I'm gonna

Unvote

.

I still hold Neruz in suspicion, but Evil Bullet is right in that we probably need to either look at things from a different angle or find another place to go to.

Sleuth: How far along are you in reading, and do you have thoughts on what's happened so far?

Cloudocean: Any thoughts on recent events?

Parama:...Are you even going to post?

[Voidedmafia]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

You are having regrets? Why? If you truly were town, why would you do something, that you regret later?

...Regrets? Where do you get regret from?

[Voidedmafia]

Umm...That's just me pointing out why my Thomith vote wasn't actually a sheep, not really being sorry. Good job trying to flail with that, though.

[Voidedmafia]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...

IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it with my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

Ok, now you have lost me. Doesn't the bolded say that you also believe it was a sheep.

No. First sentence is where I correct myself in who I have original points against (I had originally said this about Thomith, but it was really toward Neruz, as I have explained). The 2nd part would be like you say, but only if you ignore everything after the ellipse. Take the stuff after the ellipse into account, and I'm not really claiming to sheep at all.

And doesn't the top paragraph of post #146 indicate that it was a sheep also. Or is there something I am missing?

I drew my own logic off of other's posts to sustain my vote. Of course, in my book, that's not sheeping (unless the logic you're using is just really flimsy and just an excuse so you can say "Hey, I'm not sheeping!"). But I assure you, that wasn't what I was doing.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided-So, it was sarcasm?

Not even close. Closer than thinking it's regret, but still not close.

Beck: It probably sounds like coaching since I was asking for elaboration or just got the application of the tell wrong.

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, votecount please

(don't forget to bold, EB)

[Voidedmafia]

I am know I am a little late but voided's unvote after being called out for sheeping is a scumtell.

Voided- perhaps you can help my confusion by telling me who this post was directed at.

You find that openly admitting you made a mistake in how you went about things and somewhat apologizing via unvoting scummy?

Also, that's at Thomith.

And what do you mean, his 2nd quote is buddying? Looks more like him solidifying where the confusion is coming from.

[Voidedmafia]

(side bar - @ Void, why did you admit you voted for Thom for no reason and than deny you didn' sheep when voting somebody for no-reason other than the fact that somebody else is voting for that person, is almost always considered sheeping?)

I admitted that I did not have a reason of my own--that is, no reason that I brought up myself--not that I had no reason. I had added logic of my own to reasons stated otherwise, however, thus it is not a sheep.

voided - for sheeping, basically admitting he is sheeping, and than trying to wiggle out of it when Hip calls him on it.

Did not as explained above, did not, and Hiphop didn't call me out on that. Thomith did, though.

...Actually, I'm not sure what the hell Hiphop WAS trying to call me out on.

4. you said void was joking when he said that comment, however it didn't look like a joke nor did void say it was one, so why do you assume it was a joke and not a serious accusation?

Because I said it was made in jest?

Elements of Harmony - 1 is still a go. When its completed I will say who earned that last spot. All we really need though is for all five of us to be town and scum is already almost screwed over.

*Raises a ho--finger*

Um...what's "Elements of Harmony" supposed to mean?

I disagree

vote Thomith

As i said it looks more like scum giving up

Back to catching up.

Are you trying to point to how you asking if the name was spelled right equals you giving up in that game? Because that seems a little weak.

Also, while EB's posts have been pretty good, there haven't been many of them, it seems that labelling eb town now is premature.

Element of Harmony trial membership card revoked. Now accepting applications for slot #6

I feel EB is town...maybe not as strong a town as you think (largely due to lack of posts and a general unwillingness to label people strongly town this early), but town nonetheless.

Thomith and Void are scum.

Why am I, again?

As i said it looks more like scum giving up

You are going to have to provide a way to distinguish between VT softclaim and scum giving up then, since it seems that you are basis this on a "Because I said so" type of arguement as opposed to something that can be applied to different scenarios and achieve a constantly similar result.

When he is scum... And I have never ever seen a Vt softclaim. Tell you what, if Thomith flips town today(highly unlikely), I will self vote up to the lynch tomorrow, unless you say otherwise. (because obviously if he doesn't flip scum, my reads in this game are pathetic) If you die tonight, then I will leave the decision up to Evil Bullet or Beck.

Read this Newbie. Granted, it's implied at first by someone else before BBmolla (the softclaimer) rolls with it, but it's still a VT softclaim nonetheless.

hiphop when i flip town don't do what you are saying you are going to do by basically giving up. Keep posting as

I

think you are town, but when i flip town rethink your reads, who is scummy after my flip, who seems town after my flip, think about those things and town can win, just giving up though lessens the towns thinking power unneeded by 1.

Wow.

Kinda hard to think of him as scummy with this. I think that just took you out of the hotseat in my eyes, Thom.

Feel fine with a Hiphop lynch. Wanna see a VC to make sure I'm not hammering prematurely, though. (

CMON, GREY! I JOINED BECAUSE OF YOU!

)

forgot to unvote last post as i didn't read the thread but what i say still applies, giving up tehre as scum gave scum powers in this game i don't think it does that. VOTE: slueth

...And this drops you to the warmseat.

As hiphop said, what was the point of that sequence of events? Also, why were you voting a townread of yous?

[Voidedmafia]

I voted in the first place because my views made me vote you to prove you wrong, i unvoted because i would prefer to be voting someone who i think is scum than someone i think is town.

Ah, I see.

Okay, out of the warmseat with ya.

[Voidedmafia]

I would PREFER voided but I'm for hiphop.

Where is this coming from, again?

Hip: You still need to explain why you suspect me.

And now that the VC's here, I'll follow up and

Vote: hiphop

[Voidedmafia]

I would PREFER voided but I'm for hiphop.

Where is this coming from, again?

Hip: You still need to explain why you suspect me.

And now that the VC's here, I'll follow up and

Vote: hiphop

I like a grand total of one of your posts.

...And why is that again?

[Voidedmafia]

For whatever pony asked, the Elements of Harmony are what the six mane ponies represent in MLP:FiM. Too bad Twilight isn't here because she could explain all that better than I can, you can always go watch our adventures on YouTube though! All I know is I am the element of Loyalty.

Oh. Some thing I'd only get if I watched My Little Pony. Got it. *sigh*[/quote]

Thomith and Void are scum.

Why am I, again?

Because you usurp other people's reasoning. And when called out on it, you basically said that you didn't really mean to, and unvote. (Like you don't want a confrontation, exactly how Thomith is acting. He votes you, you answer, he unvotes. He votes me, I answer he unvotes. He votes Sleuth, no response, and when he does, beck responds before him, supporting Thomith, so that Thomith doesn't feel any pressure.) When clearly this post, and this post say otherwise.

Though, there's a difference between "usurping" and "Supporting", and I fall into the supporting category. Or you could point out any time when I was onto Thomith or Neruz where I did not supply my own logic along with someone else's.

Secondly, that only applies to Thomith (saying I didn't mean to) because, as I explained, I mixed up who I had given original reasoning to.

Also, no clue what the 1st one is to, and the second's an instance of me fitting into the Supporting category.

EB: SK? ewwwww. Dun really wanna think on that.

Also, why would Hiphop by better than Thomith, in your words? It seems, according to RD mostly, that lynching either of them would clear/indict the same people (or enough to be able to say that; I could be reading that wrong, though, RD.), so it seems that who of the two doesn't particularly matter.

Thomith would be a great alignment to confirm either way at this point

True, but my townread on him prevents me from going all the way here.

I just really don't see scum-Thomith calling Neruz and hiphop town here to the extent where he is going elsewhere to find a wagon.

Highly agree with this. Not so much with Neruz, but with Hiphop basically having been in the hotseat for the last couple of pages, to keep calling him town despite this is pretty darn risky, since he's opening the possibility of being the next lynch should hip flip scum for defending a partner. Even if that's not true (aka Hip or THomith aren't town), it's not really something scum would do, and a factor in why I'm unwilling to vote him (barring needing a lynch at deadline).

I am *this* close to calling off the hiphop wagon and making it a Sleuth one.

Why are you gunning for Sleuth, again?

@hiphop it wasn't him OMGUSing that was scummy, it was him not even reading the thread then deciding to OMGUS that was scummy.
also i voted you then realised that i was being an idiot and unvoted, because i had you as a town read. Although i am not so sure on that read anymore, but you are still a town read.

Oh, well, that's a point against Sleuth..

[Voidedmafia]

Beck my name is not hiplop.

my apologies

Yeesh. Maybe it's because I've only played one game with both of them that makes me not get Hiplop and Hiphop mixed up. <_<

my experience on another site, it is almost always common that scum has day talk. As for this site I have 3 completed games, 1 of which scum had day talk.

Daytalk is not normal here, and IIRC not a normal game mechanic. You can still see them in Themes (mini or large) and open games games and stuff, just not normals or newbies.

He thinks like me, so leaning town.

so you think people who like you are town, I'll keep that in mind in the future if I am ever scum, Buddying = win
I am not saying weird is scum, but the fact that you think he is town because he likes you, and not for anything he has said so far, is quite odd to me

You misread that. It's "he thinks like me", Beck, not that he likes Hiphop (though it is true that WV has a townread on Hip).

This looks like setting up lynches.

if by setting up lynches, you mean I don't prefer him to be lynched day 1, than yeah I am setting up lynches. He is the kind of person that needs to be investigated or vig-killed (assuming we even have a vig) and besides I have seen town and scum try to set up lynches before so why do you try to imply it is a scum tell? which is exactly what you are trying to do btw

More to the point, because setting up lynches is just as frequently used by town as scum (I don't know any exact ratios, but I'd reasonably wager they're rather close together, maybe with scum edging out town.), it's rather situational to label it a scumtell. Therefore, it's more of a nulltell than anything.

Hi
Who's scum.

Slueth. Seriously though read the thread and make your own mind up, don't let others decide for you.

Sounds more like one of those people who can't simply start reading, but need a boost from others (a recap, or just saying the general consensus on who's scum). Not all that odd, really.

[Voidedmafia]

As far as i am aware, while daytalk is not uncommon on MS, it's not the norm.

That's what I was getting at, there.

I was referring to it looked like coaching(in-game) to me because void just seems to accept what rainbow says with no other response back, just "ok" and moved on

What's so odd about it?

I asked a question for clarification, and I misused a tell in trying to point it how it could be used in the opposite direction (as in, being a scumtell instead of a towntell or vice-versa) (implying that I didn't know what it meant). Rainbow answered me/corrected me, I saw it to be logical, reasonable, and not anything to fret about, and I left it at that.

who coached who in game?

It looked like rainbow spoke, and void listened and accepted her posts with no real feedback. Maybe coaching was the wrong phrase but void's responses just didn't feel natural to me.

...Actually, I think coaching could apply here. I'm fairly sure it's not a scummy kind of coaching, though.

And again, I saw no reason to go further with that, even if I didn't say as much.

If a player says something and a second player just mindlessly agrees with the first player without adding anything to the discussion, that's sheeping. At least that's the definition i've always used.

Um, Neruz. "Accepting an answer" isn't the same as "mindlessly agreeing with someone". You CAN just say "ok" without sheeping, yknow.

yea

Vote: Voided

Why?

Why is hip the largest wagon.

assumingly because he made a case on me which others think is scummy, i however don't know why people think he is scum because i don't see scum motivation behind creating a mislynch wagon day 1.

Oh, god, don't be the VI this game, even if it's intentional...

(breaking up this catch up post. Pt.2 coming soon)

[Voidedmafia]

and why aren't you attacking me for voting Voided?

Why would i be?
also you miss my point, he has basically focused only on me, yes i have done some scummy things which he could use as a defense but i don't see why scum would be so strong in only focusing on one person the whole time unless it is a bus, which obviously i know it isn't.

You'd be surprised. Scum can be just as vehement about pushing a wagon as town is (of course, they kinda have to be, but I'm talking about the unnecessary tunneling-like kind of pushing, not the "push to a lynch" kind).

Town don't usually vote for no reasoning apart from in RVS, why would town vote for someone who they can't prove are scum? Wouldn't town want to find evidence before actually voting?

Not quite sure which of THomith's posts/points this is replying to. Mostly because it seems unrelated to Thomith's post just above this one.

Thomith's "because he wrote a case on me" is shit.

I said he is town because he seems to be focusing soley on me, not because he wrote a case on me.

FTFY. Also, tunneling is null in my book because town do it just as often as scum do. And more often than not, from what I've seen, it's either scum pushing a mislynch or town attacking the wrong person.

unvote, vote: Voided

I just replaced into [REDACTED] and noticed that voided again chose not to vote in RVS but he completely ignored that choice and just passed over it without a comment. So I was like ok he's scum either in this game or that game. I read more of his games and this is the only game I've seen where he attempted to justify his choice not to participate in RVS. So. Lynch plz

As I said, if you hadn't noticed I've gotten flak for just blatantly ignoring RVS (either literally not joining it or throwing out a basic "I'm not joining statement), so I'm trying to explain why I'm not before people get on my case for it, rather than explaining afterwards.

Actually, why are you even attacking this point at all? Kinda flimsy.

Also, do note that in most games where I haven't participated in RVS (only games I started, since most of my replace games were far enough past RVS for me to not be able to participate), I've been town.

From work post so again no pony pictures. I am sure most of you will be crushed.

unvote
Vote Voided

Change of pace time. Will explain this after work, a forewarning, I work late today.

I hope you will.

This is surprising largely because you actually haven't expressed interest in voting me before. What changed your mind?

Wait, what did he apologize for?

voting me with no reason

Clarification: No

original

reason. Both of my votes on you and Neruz had reasons for them, don't try to deny that.

Another thing that bugs me

EBWOP: Not really substantial enough for a vote, but good enough for saying that in jest.

This reads it's not serious enough to vote you but good enough to joke about, so maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

Void, can you explain better what you meant exactly by that comment because to me, it doesn't make sense.

That's exactly what I meant. I was mainly making a joking comment about that line, hence that was good enough to say in jest, but I wasn't really trying to push anything or vote him, hence why it's not serious enough for a vote.

[Voidedmafia]

And for the record, I don't care if you RVS'd or not, that alone is never enough to lynch somebody

'Course not. Another reason I wasn't going to push it. Unless he was serious about that, which he obviously wasn't.

Voided, why not turn that "jest" into an rvs vote

Because I was only making a joke about that. I wasn't really gonna go anywhere with it.

You could have said something like "vote thom, cause this could be time number 5"

True, didn't think of that. Then again, I did feel the joke had run it's course at that point, which is partly why I didn't push it.

Instead your "jest" actually helped end rvs in a way because of neuruz's comments that came later.

Ain't that a good thing?

Why joke but not joke vote?

Because I wanted to joke, that's all.

And for the record, I don't care if you RVS'd or not, that alone is never enough to lynch somebody

But this seems to be the lone reason of the voided wagon, i don't see how it is stable.

Are you sure about that?

Well, two of the people voting me (Elli and Rainbow) haven't exactly been forthcoming in their reasons, and that's just about the only reason given (from Evil Bullet), so yeah.

[Voidedmafia]

voided- You clearly, said that Thomith was scummy, and then came back later, and said that you didn't know what you were thinking.

I know what I was thinking, and that was that I thought there was more to the case I was making than there actually was, so I'm basically trimming the excess to reveal the actual juicy bits.

Basically, I was thinking there was more than there was, not that I didn't know what I was thinking.

And the 2 posts(first 1, second paragraph) I linked clearly show you attacking Thomith/(agreeing with me) because he was scummy. And when people started attacking you, you unvoted. So do not try to weasel your way out of that.

And? I admit that EB's attack on that made me rethink how much I was actually putting in this argument.

What exactly am I weaseling out of, again?

Also, do note that in most games where I haven't participated in RVS (only games I started, since most of my replace games were far enough past RVS for me to not be able to participate), I've been town.

This is just scummy. Giving away meta, makes the meta null, because you recognize the fact that you do this as town, therefore you try to duplicate it as scum. And the fact that this is exactly what is happening makes you even more likely scum(if that is possible), then before.

Actualy, that's kinda my point. Not the whole "doing this as town to replicate is as scum", but the fact that using my meta to assume that I'm scum here because I'm explaining why I'm not RVSing is pretty useless, and stupid.

I wish voided would skip a few things. Seems to be a lot of noise.

If only because no one comments on anything else. I think what I post is relevant, except the parts which are obviously not (joking parts, etc.)

Rainbow, I believe it is a Beck, Thomith, Voided. And on to the next game.

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

[Voidedmafia]

Eb-I have played 2 games with voided. The game that he was town, he replaced in, but the game that he was scum, he RVS'd. So, I am not seeing the connection. Or are you just making up reasons to join a wagon?

I asked you who your favorite rapper was.

wait, wait, wait. How the hell is this even relevant?

[Voidedmafia]

voided, you have by my count, at least 3 people voting for you and yet you don't ask any of them questions about why they are voting for you and you don't try to defend yoruself, instead you respond ONLY to hiphop's posts and than you ask EB why his question to Hip is relevant.

why do this? Why are you not trying to figure out why you are being voted?

I asked Elli, she hasn't answered.

I did forget about Rainbow's, honestly. I'll have to get on that tomorrow morning, since it's too late now.

[Voidedmafia]

Meh, since I'm waiting on a reply from someone else in another forum, I might as well tackle this while I wait.

But both you and Hiphop have good points regarding Thomith. Could be scum bussing a partner, or town getting a bit too defensive, but I'm willing to go out on a limb about it.

See, the thing is, we actually have a good reason to suspect Neruz, and your defense of him is both indirectly implicating him as being scum and making you out to be a suspect as well.

Besides, I don't think you or Neruz have really explained why he would call you scummy and then vote someone else because coming up with a seemingly legit case (however small it was) and the trying to mask things under the guise of RVS smells REALLY fishy.

Unvote, Vote: Thomith

Hip: I suppose that's also a point. Thomith is certainly digging a hole with his posts.

Lots of weak moves regarding Thomith in those two posts, which seem to keep the amount of suspicion he has on him very vauge.

While it is true that those posts do not carry any overt sense of suspicion in them, the intent was that previous posts had already given that, and thus rendered it redundant. Whether that suceeded or not, well...<_<

We see him arguing both sides in the first one, and in the second not really backing up why the logic is fishy, it simpy is.

I felt that the action and the setence it's in explained why it's fishy. After all, this was a convenient way to just claim "Hey, I'm just RVSing" which Neruz did, and then he can potentially back out of this with no harm done, assuming that we hadn't picked up on the rather obvious contradiction.

As for the first, I'm not afraid to state what I think both sides are (unless I think there aren't). Why does this feel off to you?

The agreement with hip bugs me as well, I don't see how digging a hole is scummy at all. Why even bring that one up as a point?

The point is, the way Thomith was going about it was dragging himself down along with Neruz. Scummy both by association with Neruz and through his own posts (too late for specific posts, but I believe most of them have already been covered).

This post

Oh, right, if I think you're scum. Had a post on that, then stupidly got it deleted by clicking on a bookmark. But anyways, I checked through the first couple pages up to when I switched to you, and I didn't really see much reason for me to vote you, so I'm gonna

Unvote.

I still hold Neruz in suspicion, but Evil Bullet is right in that we probably need to either look at things from a different angle or find another place to go to.

Also just seems out of place, especially has VM is calling Neruz scum while not voting, yet that was in part his inital attack on Neruz.

You would like to call me out on hypocrisy, wouldn't you?

Thing is, I didn't actually call him scum in this post, nor assign any scumpoints or scumtells to him. I ONLY said he has my suspicion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Then there is the out of nowhere sheep on me onto hiphop. Up until that point I was convinced the entire wagon was town driven. Now not so sure.

Now, this vote WAS sheeping (happy now? You can say I sheeped), but even if I didn't try to add my own logic, I did (and do) agree with the logic you gave for voting Hiphop, which is why I followed you.

Also if VM is town so is one of Sleuth and Parama, almost for sure. VM has shown way to much interest in lurkers contributing without making any pushes against them.

Playstyletell. I usually don't push lurkers unless they're active lurking.

Also, where have I pushed hard for Sleuth and/or Parama to post? And I'm not talking about off-hand comments like, "Oh, you're right, Sleuth isn't posting." or anything like that.

I can tell you I've only directly mentioned Parama once before this post (the other two times were in quotes), and Sleuth about 3-4. Granted, the time I mentioned Parama is when I directly ask him, "Are you even going to post?" but I haven't even broached that subject with him since.

As for Sleuth, I have never actually gone out of my way to say, "Sleuth hasn't been posting. You ought to start doing that." or anything like that. So I'm not sure where you're getting "has shown way too much interest in lurkers contributing"

Unless you mean WV and just got the abbreviations mixed up.

Now we observe.

*observes* Rainbowdash! What do your pony eyes see?

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, looking at Weirdviogt's ISO, he only mentions Parama twice outside of quotes, and neither time are about getting him to post.

He also only mentions Sleuth twice, only one has possible connotations for interest in getting him to contribute (If asking if you've read the entire page has that kind of connotation, anyways). The other is just talking to THomith about having Sleuth as a scumread.

So, where did that "too much interest" thing come from, anyways?

[Voidedmafia]

Neuroz - 4th vote - not much of a reason

Yes there is. As I've stated, Neruz was the only one with original reasoning, and it was good enough at the time of the vote.

Thom - 3rd vote - your use of "we" bugs me but basically you sheep onto hip's argument about defending (interesting enough later you say thom is a town read and his defense would be too risky if he was actually scum. can you say contradiction?)

THere's a difference here. Largely because defending Neruz at the beginning wasn't as risky as defending Hiphop now. Sure, Neruz made a mistake in what he was doing with his vote which made him scummy for it, but he's not been as bad as Hiphop as, though. Not to mention that Thomith's defense of Neruz was also making him suspicious due to what he wassaying.

Hiphop - 5th vote for essentially no reason

Of my own.

from what I can see your votes have been nothing but sheeping votes with no real content or reason behind it

Dude, stop saying I'm voting for no reason because that is blatantly wrong. You have a point with me providing little content for two of them, yes, but you have no basis for saying I have no reason behind them.

and the only vote that had a reason for (thom defending somebody) you later use it to try and say it would be too risky to do if he was scum, unless I am completely mis-reading this quote

Again, differences in events, level of scumminess from Neruz and Hiphop, level of defense from Thomith, and general actions of all three are different enough that calling Thom town here isn't a contradiction.

I just really don't see scum-Thomith calling Neruz and hiphop town here to the extent where he is going elsewhere to find a wagon.

Highly agree with this. Not so much with Neruz, but with Hiphop basically having been in the hotseat for the last couple of pages, to keep calling him town despite this is pretty darn risky, since he's opening the possibility of being the next lynch should hip flip scum for defending a partner. Even if that's not true (aka Hip or THomith aren't town), it's not really something scum would do, and a factor in why I'm unwilling to vote him (barring needing a lynch at deadline).

this goes back to my original statement about you in post 338/339, you seem to try to stay on everyone's good side and not really rock the boat.

So? Why are you trying to coach me when I don't need it?

Also, where are you getting the idea that I'm afraid to post my ideas? The fact that I find others opinions to be in agreement with me own?

[Voidedmafia]

replace me

I'm not reading 20 pages of this high-paced nonsense.

SLACKER!

[Voidedmafia]

Unfortunately I go off my own interpretations and I feel your explanations aren't truthful

Well, you could trying explain why they're not truthful, even if it means being redundant.

Not even sure why you said im coaching you, that's a big stretch.

I asked why you're trying to coach me, or at least act like it.

You don't have to pull me along like a toddler about that.

Lastly, That's great you agree with everyone. I wish I could do that.

OBJECTION!

I disagree with you, so how can you say I agree with everyone! That's a major contradiction, Beck!

[Voidedmafia]

1. I dont beleive your explanations cause I read your posts and I feel my interpretation is right

Thank you for ignoring my direct statement to you. Here, I'll repost it for you:
Explain how my statements aren't truthful, even if it's redundant.

2. I'm not trying to coach you so I don't know why you think I am

Unintentional and unneeded coaching. I already know that jazz, and don't need you shoving it at me.

Thomith is behind three people very cleanly though for "dont want to lynch", probably more in that grey area of unsurednessly which would hold people like Parama and Ellibereth who I really just see zero point in lynching.

...Oh.

I thought by "behind three people" you meant that there were three people in the game that were against his lynch enough to stay your hand, then I realized it means there's three people that you don't want lynched with more priority.

Man, I suck at comprehension (and spelling suck, too <_<)

While it is true that those posts do not carry any overt sense of suspicion in them, the intent was that previous posts had already given that, and thus rendered it redundant. Whether that suceeded or not, well...<_<

I didn't push you for repeating what had already been said. I called you out on not taking solid stances on anypony, and leaving all doors open with regards to Neruz and Thomith.

Ah, I see. Sorry about that, then.

As for not taking stances, I was looking at it from both a scum and town perspective (as some/most of my posts from that point should attest), so it does stand to reason that I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about it all. So yeah, I admit that I wasn't exactly being direct and "this action is X, not Y" in regards to Thomith.

As for Neruz, though, I think I pretty clearly said that I found him scummy for that stuff. Or am I missing something?

I felt that the action and the setence it's in explained why it's fishy. After all, this was a convenient way to just claim "Hey, I'm just RVSing" which Neruz did, and then he can potentially back out of this with no harm done, assuming that we hadn't picked up on the rather obvious contradiction.

As for the first, I'm not afraid to state what I think both sides are (unless I think there aren't). Why does this feel off to you?

Funny thing here is you are attacking Neruz for exactly what I am attacking you for now. Both of the posts I brought up were worded in such a way that you could easily say that somepony is town or scum with minimal effort, fence sitting if you will.

I might have gotten lost on what quotes you're talking about, but here goes:

The first quote doesn't have any sense of fencesitting. I'm not quite sure how it could, really.

Second sentence, I suppose I could see why you'd say it's fencesitting. I was mainly hoping that the wording and general feel would've left a "he thinks Neruz is scummy/suspicious for this" kind of feel on people, so I'm sorry for not making it clearer.

Also its just basically summarizing what is happening instead of actually giving a stance on it

Second quote doesn't give a summary feel to me. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

which is scummy because its a way to make it seem like you are contributing to the discussion without actually having to firmly plant hooves on either side of the line.

Is summarizing it scummy or not giving a stance scummy? Because summarzing like this isn't always scummy.

The agreement with hip bugs me as well, I don't see how digging a hole is scummy at all. Why even bring that one up as a point?

The point is, the way Thomith was going about it was dragging himself down along with Neruz. Scummy both by association with Neruz and through his own posts (too late for specific posts, but I believe most of them have already been covered).

What? So digging a hole was some unique way of saying commited the exact same scumtells as somepony else?

No, I'm pretty sure I never tried accusing Thomith of doing the same as Neruz.

Also its never too late for specific posts.

That was in relation to the time. Where I was when I posted, it was about 5:50 AM or so, and I needed to get to bed, so I was saying I only had time to reply to your post, not actually go through the game and give any specific posts.

You would like to call me out on hypocrisy, wouldn't you?

Thing is, I didn't actually call him scum in this post, nor assign any scumpoints or scumtells to him. I ONLY said he has my suspicion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get snippy with me. These hooves can not only protect but also destroy, and I will not hesitate to use them to do such if you aren't going to just answer questions straightforward. Also I love to call ponies out on being hypocritical since its a scumtell.

But I did answer it straightfowardly below that...why are you trying to say I didn't?

How in the world is saying somepony has your suspicion, but they aren't going to get your vote any different then what happened with Neruz to start the game? Its the exact same thing, scarily the exact same thing. Even with that last post you specifically say that he has your suspicion, which makes him more scummy than anypony at null read, which is what we all railed on Neruz for.

Because I had scumreads that were worse than Neruz at the time. Neruz only had nullreads.

To me, Neruz was the lesser of two evils, and thus did not get a vote.

Then there is the out of nowhere sheep on me onto hiphop. Up until that point I was convinced the entire wagon was town driven. Now not so sure.

Now, this vote WAS sheeping (happy now? You can say I sheeped), but even if I didn't try to add my own logic, I did (and do) agree with the logic you gave for voting Hiphop, which is why I followed you.

Sheeping isnt scummy inherantly, if it was no pony would ever get lynched.

That comment wasn't really directed at you. Mainly at Beck and whoever else was claiming I was sheeping.

Maybe this is more null, but its something I feel needed to be pointed out. Up until that point I was really convinced that the entire hiphop wagon was town. Wierd thing is, looking at that votecount, you stick out a whole lot to me. If there is scum on the wagon, probably you. I can actually see you as scum with or without hiphop, although more likely without. Instead with one of Sleuth/Parama and then somepony else from the WV/Thomith/Neruz/Beck/deselby group. This is all speculation until I prove myself right though, that VC just makes me think you are scum at a glance.

While it is true that blatantly following you like that would stick out like a sore thumb, I'm not particularly worried. I was following well-throught reasoning to a good lynch candidate.

Wonder if just saying throw you in the big group and it becomes a pick two works better. Given early game I believe one of the three lurkers is scum or at least two of my alliance is scum, which I heavily lean to lurker. This is even more true if deselby is town.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, honestly.

Also if VM is town so is one of Sleuth and Parama, almost for sure. VM has shown way to much interest in lurkers contributing without making any pushes against them.

Playstyletell. I usually don't push lurkers unless they're active lurking.

Also, where have I pushed hard for Sleuth and/or Parama to post? And I'm not talking about off-hand comments like, "Oh, you're right, Sleuth isn't posting." or anything like that.

I can tell you I've only directly mentioned Parama once before this post (the other two times were in quotes), and Sleuth about 3-4. Granted, the time I mentioned Parama is when I directly ask him, "Are you even going to post?" but I haven't even broached that subject with him since.

As for Sleuth, I have never actually gone out of my way to say, "Sleuth hasn't been posting. You ought to start doing that." or anything like that. So I'm not sure where you're getting "has shown way too much interest in lurkers contributing"

Iso 16. The individual addressing of slightly different questions just was one of those things that made me jot down a note.

Still doesn't explain how I'm "Way too interested in lurkers".

Now we observe.

*observes* Rainbowdash! What do your pony eyes see?

That was more then I intended to write.[/quote]
...Sorry?

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

So it is an act?

Seems like it, since there's very little indication he's really been slipping into VI territory from what I can see.

And he isn't scum?

Why does being VI=scum?

And calling something different then what I called it, does not change what it is.

What's this talking about again?

Also, I am not quoting your wall. For nothing you said has convinced me, and there is already too much noise coming out of you.

Too bad. Quote it anyways.

Page 19-What is this I don't even

Don't care. Though, it seems I completely overlooked that page.

...actually, make that a page and a half. Wow, I missed that much...

OOOOOOOOOOOOH ME SCUMZ.

Is this a claim?[/quote]

Eb-I have played 2 games with voided. The game that he was town, he replaced in, but the game that he was scum, he RVS'd. So, I am not seeing the connection. Or are you just making up reasons to join a wagon?

Eb-I have played 2 games with voided. The game that he was town, he replaced in, but the game that he was scum, he RVS'd. So, I am not seeing the connection. Or are you just making up reasons to join a wagon?

I asked you who your favorite rapper was.

wait, wait, wait. How the hell is this even relevant?

Is it a stretch to call this soft defending (chainsaw)?

Me to him or him to me?

If it was me to him, I wasn't intending for it to be a chainsaw because I honestly saw very little point in trying to ask about that.

In hiphop's post I'm fairly certain that he was pretty behind when I revoted for Voided. Which means in skimming the stuff from the most recent pages (something probably everyone does before catching up) he wasn't only paying attention to mentions of himself (when I skim like that I always look for who's talking about me) but for some reason he was looking for mentions of voided too

^this is probably wrong but go ahead and read through the strike if you'd like

I did. And that does effectively sum up what I've been doing with most of these catchups (sans looking for mentions of Person X, anyways).

Voided seems a little overly... is indignant the word I'm looking for? No but the fact that he says "the hell" is a bit much I think for the situation. It's not the first irrelevant thing one of us or anyone else has posted.

What the hell is wrong with saying what the hell a lot?

...Now it sounds more like one of those annoying Stock Phrases. Great...

We figured those thoughts were worth sharing. I was at work and it just hit me all of a sudden, the connections between the two posts, but then trying to put into words why they're connected didn't go as planned. Sounded better in my head while I was mopping aisle 7.

...i keep forgetting you're a hydra, too.

Thom: Very specifically, it's the last game both HIphop and I played, Marketplace Mafia. Both scumteams and SK (Which, coincidentally, is our mod for this game) have an ability to PM stuff to each other through the mod. And using this they stupidly outed themselves. As for town not thinking, there were only two who weren't really thinking at that point--me and Hellonewman. Then again, no one really tried to suspect Grey after Ghostlin flipped scum until I started getting paranoid at Lylo/Mylo (and then my suspicion was vindicated when he won).

[Voidedmafia]

Thank you for ignoring my direct statement to you. Here, I'll repost it for you:
Explain how my statements aren't truthful, even if it's redundant.

you say

Yes there is. As I've stated, Neruz was the only one with original reasoning, and it was good enough at the time of the vote.

yet when you vote you say

But both you and Hiphop have good points regarding Thomith. Could be scum bussing a partner, or town getting a bit too defensive, but I'm willing to go out on a limb about it.

Vote: Neruz

doesn't seem to be much of a reason at all, so that is why I don't believe you.

You're ignoring the fact that I'm the one who first pointed out the problem with his "2nd RVS vote", and I also factored that into my vote. So you're wrong here.

As for youe vote on thom, I basically say you sheep hip with your vote and I mention your odd comment of saying "we" which you never address in your response to me, instead you say something so cryptic that I don't even think you are explaining why you sheeped him and now it looks like you are trying to justify defending. Defending is either scummy or it's not.

Huh?

THere's a difference here. Largely because defending Neruz at the beginning wasn't as risky as defending Hiphop now. Sure, Neruz made a mistake in what he was doing with his vote which made him scummy for it, but he's not been as bad as Hiphop as, though. Not to mention that Thomith's defense of Neruz was also making him suspicious due to what he was saying.

Oh, this. Not really cryptic. If you look at both specific points and compare them, Thomith defending Hiphop by calling him town now when there's been plenty of good points made against him is MUCH more risky and more townie than trying to defend Neruz back at the beginning when there weren't as many points (even if there usually aren't at that stage). How Thomith went about doing both defenses also is a factor. If you'll note, Thomith's defense of Neruz is a bit sloppier than his defense of Hiphop. Hiphop's is more...refined, for lack of a better word.

now for the hiphop vote, you say you have your own reason, yet you don't say what that was in the response to me nor do you really say it when you vote, and what was your reason? oh wait, let me go find where you say what it was.

Now, this vote WAS sheeping (happy now? You can say I sheeped),

yeah, you sheeped. That was your reason by your own admittince

so this is why I don't believe you.

Again, no reason

OF MY OWN

. Man, you keep ignoring that part, don't you? Should I put it in bigger letters next time?

now on to the coaching thing, since you don't seem to understand what I am trying to say because you make comments like this

Unintentional and unneeded coaching. I already know that jazz, and don't need you shoving it at me.

so let's take this a different approach, Can you point out the post where you

think

I am coaching you and why you think that? Because as I keep saying, I have never coached you so I want to know which post exactly do you think I am coaching you on so I can explain to you why it isn't coaching.

Yoohoo.

At best it's dispensing unwanted advice, at worst it's an attempt at coaching, whether that was intended or not.

[Voidedmafia]

Look, let's cut to it:

So long as you ignore the fact that I've never said that my Hiphop vote had

no reason behind it at all

, your case on me lying has nothing.

[Voidedmafia]

You're ignoring the fact that I'm the one who first pointed out the problem with his "2nd RVS vote", and I also factored that into my vote. So you're wrong here.

believe Implosion and Weird both point that out right after he does it in posts 21 & 22 so YOU are wrong here.

Pic's a bit too small, mate.

Also, noted.

I can't respond to "huh", what ecatly don't you understand?

God, you're in idiot if you don't understand that that isn't supposed to be taken standalone.

I agree that I don't like thom's defense of Neruz, but thom has already proved time and time again he is just a bad player

But Thom's defense of Neruz looks different from his Hiphop defense, no?

I guess I mis-understood, so you said you didn't vote for any reason of your own, fine, but it still supports my claim that you vote for little or no good reasons. so I take back the lying claim since it was a mis-understanding. I thought you said you voted for yoru own reason. apologies

RD's reasons aren't good enough?

And apology accepted.

as for the link to the coaching, I see where you would get that. It was actually a continuation of my previous post and I was just speaking in generalities of how I think a town player shoudl play, so yeah I see where you would think coaching, but it is more just me explaining my thought process of how a town player should play and I don't see you playing that way. I guess you can call it un-warranted advice, but I wouldn't even call it that.

I'd call it that (largely because of my PoV), but thanks for clearing this up.

[Voidedmafia]

Rainbow, I believe it is a Beck, Thomith, Voided. And on to the next game.

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

Trying to act like a VI? So you think he's doing it intentionally? If so, what's the town motivation for that?

Please answer this. Also, who are your top scum reads and why?

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

My top scumread is Hiphop, largely based off what RD explained here. most of the stuff that RD grills him for after that is pretty scummy, too. He's also pretty much using a similar argument to Beck against me, which I've already pretty much explained, and is also trying to use his stubbornness to try and get out of things (namely, actually replying to my retorts against him).

[Voidedmafia]

Bah, got cut off from finishing. Will have to do a catch-up, AGAIN!

As for not taking stances, I was looking at it from both a scum and town perspective (as some/most of my posts from that point should attest), so it does stand to reason that I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about it all. So yeah, I admit that I wasn't exactly being direct and "this action is X, not Y" in regards to Thomith.

Thing is that anypony can think from both sides of the equation given enough practice, being able to get into opposite mindset is what allows ponies to be significantly above average strength in this game.

Well, I admit I don't have that part down yet, so I'm just average.

What I can't do is get into your specific mindset as well, I can infer some things about what you think from reading your posts, as you saw me pick up dissent in EBs posts already since things didn't mesh.

I did?

You are the one that needs to take at least some form of stance, even when in doubt.

But I've taken solid stances on Neruz and Hiphop and Thomith (granted, not THEN, if that's what you're referring to, but I have).

You just have to act on what you think, and actually think something.

I am thinking, and I thought that the arguments presented were good enough to follow, and in your case on Hiphop, I didn't see how I could build upon it anymore.

I honestly cannot believe anypony can have zero opinon on anypony else even after a couple of posts from them.

Wait, I never said I had zero opinion. I'm pretty sure I've given opinions on pretty much everyone here except Sleuth and Parama. Maybe I have for sleuth, but definitely not Parama.

As for Neruz, though, I think I pretty clearly said that I found him scummy for that stuff. Or am I missing something?

You have been voting Neruz for all of 90 minutes this game. Shift to Thomith off him came around the point of the quotes you were really stalling stances.

I see.

which is scummy because its a way to make it seem like you are contributing to the discussion without actually having to firmly plant hooves on either side of the line.

Is summarizing it scummy or not giving a stance scummy? Because summarzing like this isn't always scummy.

Summarizing is actually somewhat of a tell since its a great way to give illusion of doing something else to ponies who don't like to listen too closely. Not giving stances is also usually scummy since its not contributing which is bad.

Sometimes giving a summary is the best way to present a case. I'm not saying it's not bad--you're right there. But I don't believe that my case was a bad example.

What? So digging a hole was some unique way of saying commited the exact same scumtells as somepony else?

No, I'm pretty sure I never tried accusing Thomith of doing the same as Neruz.

Re-explain the digging a hole part being scummy then, because I don't get how it is.

He was defending Neruz by saying that his vote wasn't scummy or suspicious when it really was, so his defense was shabby, which implicated Neruz, and it also meant that he wasn't really able to defend very well, making himself look bad in the process.

You would like to call me out on hypocrisy, wouldn't you?

Thing is, I didn't actually call him scum in this post, nor assign any scumpoints or scumtells to him. I ONLY said he has my suspicion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get snippy with me. These hooves can not only protect but also destroy, and I will not hesitate to use them to do such if you aren't going to just answer questions straightforward. Also I love to call ponies out on being hypocritical since its a scumtell.

But I did answer it straightfowardly below that...why are you trying to say I didn't?

Sorta, you kind of just admitted to what I was saying and thought you weren't going to do that.

Now I'm confused.

How in the world is saying somepony has your suspicion, but they aren't going to get your vote any different then what happened with Neruz to start the game? Its the exact same thing, scarily the exact same thing. Even with that last post you specifically say that he has your suspicion, which makes him more scummy than anypony at null read, which is what we all railed on Neruz for.

Because I had scumreads that were worse than Neruz at the time. Neruz only had nullreads.

To me, Neruz was the lesser of two evils, and thus did not get a vote.

Who was the greater of two evils? I know that "Not Voting" pony you moved off Neruz for is a shifty character, but are they that bad?

Considering Thomith is a townread to me, he isn't now.

Wonder if just saying throw you in the big group and it becomes a pick two works better. Given early game I believe one of the three lurkers is scum or at least two of my alliance is scum, which I heavily lean to lurker. This is even more true if deselby is town.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, honestly.

Game behavior and lack of resistance to me pushing an alliance suggest scum is either not afriad of it or they are not in any position to do anything against it, such as lurking. Deselby is the only pony who seems against the concept, so if he is town I will near guarentee one Enmity Pony is in the inital lurker pool, most likely Sleuth/Parama given the entry to the game from Ellibereth. That or they are unafraid because scum is put in good position by the alliance.[/quote]
I see.

But there's also the possibility that scum just doesn't care about it. not that they're necessarily unafraid, just that the alliance doesn't matter to them?

[Voidedmafia]

guys
whatever
this doesn't matter anymore
What do you guys think about Neruz in relation to the points I brought up.

Kinda hard to do amongst all the multiposts. I'll look after my catch-up.

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

Um...maybe the scum motivation is trying to avoid a lynch by being seen as a "bad" player rather than a "scummy" player?

But Thomith wasn't really in danger of being lynched at that point, IIRC. I mean, yeah, he had people gunning for him (Hiphop and EB come to mind), but Hiphop was the one near the chopping block (and I was starting to get that way).

[Voidedmafia]

By Celestia you ponies!

There are not two scum teams. There is not a SK. There is no cult. There is no boogeyman, santa or

parasprite infestation.

lolwut? The hell is that?

VM not even twitching over being L-2 is odd enough

Should I twitch?

but then we have EB trying to move a wagon to Thomith

Hasn't he been stuck between me and Thomith for awhile now?

VM buddying/sheeping me very hard even after I explicitly said most of my hiphop case was based on reaction to town leader challenge,

So what if it is? The logic is still good.

I will tell you if VM is claiming or not sometime withing the next twelve hours. We will progress from there. Ponies off the VM wagon need to weigh in near instantly on if you think he is scum or not.

If I'm claiming or not? No one's said they want to hammer me yet, as far as I can tell.

Voided responding to every point against him in the way he is is also a form of flailing.

How so?

[Voidedmafia]

WV: I already did when you asked the first time. Or do you want me to go in-depth?

[Voidedmafia]

Voided responding to every point against him in the way he is is also a form of flailing.

How so?

You are desperate for acceptance and survival and you're not bothering to look for scum anymore.

Well, yes, I do shift to a more defensive stance when I'm getting attacked. Allows me to better focus on my defense.

Sorry if you're disappointed I can't easily defend and attack at the same time. One or the other works better for me.

Yeah now thats right. I will explain all right before we actually lynch, and why its a slight town tell for Neruz to drop a few lines.

You mean, if he does drop a few lines, it's a towntell? Lines about what roles are in the game?

Will summarize the VM thing later, haven't had a chance to read much yet since last post and now look like im going to be busy for a few more hours.

Phah. Try leaving for 9 hours and coming back to 2-3 pages every Mon-Thurs. THAT'S a pain.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah now thats right. I will explain all right before we actually lynch, and why its a slight town tell for Neruz to drop a few lines.

You mean, if he does drop a few lines, it's a towntell? Lines about what roles are in the game?

Now now, no rolefishing. Its a minor tell though I think, may be putting too much stock in it, but its something I was looking to see if it would come up or not.

I just wasn't sure what you wanted Neruz to drop a few lines on.

@VM - Humor me here, make a case on hiphop. If you want to draw from what I have said in the past but feel free too. I really haven't mentioned that pony as scum in the last ten or so pages so it would be nice to see what else you think has occured there.

Oh, fine, a more in-depth case, then.

While most of the early stuff is town (catching on to the same slip most of us did with Neruz, making a good point about one of Thomith's attempted defenses toward Neruz), he first starts to slip here, claiming that Thomith already knows Neruz's alignment. It was called out on soon after (by Beck first, as seen here). Now, while his argument about why Thomith is trying to defend against

the

scummiest action at this point in the game holds merit, trying to say that THomith is scum because of his blatant defense just isn't right. As Beck points out, town blatantly defend just as much as scum do. There is very little merit in trying to say that here, and it just makes Hiphop look bad.

Hiphop then spends posts 58 and 60 trying to draw Thomith's attention to the whole "you just claimed lol" part of it. While I can agree that Thomith isn't the most competent player here, I find it unlikely he missed that, and was most likely just working with the other part of the argument instead. Not to mention that trying to draw attention to this is kinda like the bad kind of tunneling. The kind that's more like you're trying to find any speck of evidence to blame them with instead of zoning in on cornered scum.

Next up is Hip again trying to pin the scumpin on Thomith, along with exaggerating Thomith's intentions (escalating Thomith's stance from "Not really convinced about the argument to "Hey i'm fencesitting!" is the obvious one). While it is true that town can do this as well as scum, town don't exaggerate this openly or this extremely.

here, Hip again tries to claim THomith is scum with the same "he already knows Neruz's alignment, when there's still been no clear proof. For all we know, Thom could just be town defending someone hes sees as a townread (Yes, I know that's the obvious answer). This constant pushing without anything to back it up (either with is own or someone else's) pushes him into scum territory.

Again Hip tries to say Thomith is scum because he's trying to say that Neruz is town with nothing to show. That doesn't make him scum, instantly, just a bit free with his townreads (and maybe a little stupid). He continues on to counter another of your points by saying that his lack of pushing elsewhere means scum, but I often have trouble pushing other people without something sturdy to work of off, so that's more of a playstyle tell than a scumtell. He also fails to respond to the other part of that quote, which illustrates how Thomith could be town. Furthermore, he tries to belittle your townread on him because there are four people pushing his lynch, but that doesn't mean he's not town. Just means that four people are pushing his lynch.

If you could elaborate on my push of him latching onto the one point against Thomith while ignoring others I would like that as well, since I was more or less torn on what that really ment when you broke it down.

May just be because my brain kinda turns to mush this late at night, but I'm not sure what this is referring to.

For one thing, a scumflip from Thomith makes hiphop pretty clear town.

And when i flip town?

Makes him pretty clear scum, most likely.

Took too long doing something else. I'll try to finish the rest of this when I wake up.

[Voidedmafia]

but really don't know where to go if that read is going to change on me.

If you don't mind can you rephrase this? Thanks.

"I don't really know what I'm going to do if my read on VM changes on me."

If not me, then most likely it's referring to you or Hiphop.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't like his first 10 posts (essentially focused on pushing neruz/thomith). I feel like they exaggerate how scummy some events have been (example: post 32's "why the hell aren't you pushing that suspicion?") which is scummy for obvious reasons.

Not really exaggerating. Why would I not press Neruz to follow up on his claim that Thomith gained a couple scumpoints?

Sleuth: Not sure how to read that post. Either town or scum, he's just basically thrown his vote away for us to put somewhere, but I can't tell the intentions behind it.

[Voidedmafia]

*sigh* welp, gives me time to work on my Hiphop case pt.2

Vote: Deselby

How long is GreyICE V/LA, if he was at all?

[Voidedmafia]

Neruz does not sheep, Neruz always carefully considers every action he takes. Sometimes he then says fuck it and does something else anyway, but never sheep.

I do not see any compelling evidence as why i should unvote Thomith. Vote stays where it is.

Would you vote Deselby if a thomith wagon isn't going to happen today and desel's at L-1 (or L-2) with 3< days before deadline?

[Voidedmafia]

Grey

:

so, This is bad

Spoiler:

And this is not?

Just to make sure i'm correct in the difference.

You're correct, don't do it again.

[Voidedmafia]

if there's more than one scum on this wagon Sleuth can be the second. But I think there's only one. I don't feel like bothering with doubting implosion. But like... everyone needs to get back on voided, he's clearly the oportunistic scum in this scenario. And quit trying to add WIFOM to your WIFOM.

Remind me again: Which posts don't you like and why, and which post do you like and why?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't develop an opinion on single posts. That's how you mislynch. It's about the whole, not the parts.

...You take single posts, form an opinion, then meld how you feel into one conclusion. That's pretty much standard for any case on MS.

However, you stated before that you only liked one of my posts, and I'd like to be reminded why you didn't like the others.

[Voidedmafia]

School starts tomorrow, so. No content right now yay

Just because school starts doesn't mean you can't give SOMETHING.

I mean, give who you think should be the lynch, if anything.

[Voidedmafia]

wtf is this new Q+ stuff?

Multi-quote, as you can tell.

What sucks is how it doesn't automatically turn OFF.

690 is a scum claim.

Um....what?

Dude...what?

ALONG WITH going back over why you only liked 1 of my posts (and why you dislike the rest), explain how me asking Sleuth to at least give SOMETHING is a scumclaim because you just went off the deep-end with that one.

I mean, really, I know you want me dead, but at least try to explain WHY (or re-explain, for those of us who are asking for it).

[Voidedmafia]

You haven't made a noticeable attempt to make this game fun for yourself. That's my case on you. In a sentence.

Because what I deem fun and you deem fun are different. /argument

Now then, I have not made much fuss about people making "Hey I'm here!" posts, that's true. However, I don't see how school starting is a reasonable excuse to not give content.

[Voidedmafia]

Evil Bullet's #703 is fairly convincing. We (both) could go for the Voided wagon.

There's a problem with this. Yes, I haven't posted anything like mild annoyance before, but he's automatically jumping to nitpicking and then jumping to more conclusions. It is just as likely that mitigating events (and circumstances in-game) brought my annoyance level up to the point where I harped on Sleuth. (correct answer: Sleuth wasn't doing anything, came in to specifically say "won't post content," which annoyed me because, why the hell

can't

you post even a small bit of content if you have the time?).

And again, I repeat: What I do to have fun in Mafia is/can be different from what you do to have fun on Mafia, and they way I catch scum is different from the way you catch scum. Simply because my way of doing things doesn't match yours isn't a reason to get all antsy and try to said I'm scumclaiming, not to mention he's only talked about tells for my playstyle, not anything that says I'm scum (I usually get defensive and focus on that when I'm getting attacked, for instance, as I've stated before).

Speaking of, STILL waiting on that account of why you didn't like those posts, EB.

Oh, and if you're thinking, "Hey, why did he not go into this much detail when he directly replied to EB?" It's because I didn't see why I should've needed to refute it, but now it seems I do.

Well, back to

Vote: Hiphop

. And anyone who said that they didn't like my partial case on him needs to also explain why my points are wrong,

[Voidedmafia]

Honestly the 'free passes' nonsense is either boredom with this day lasting so long or a trap to catch scum. Nothing else makes even the remotest lick of sense.

Of course we are talking about a bronie, so expecting sense may be a little much.

Considering how RD was talking, it seems a mix of both was there, with the latter being more prevalent.

[Voidedmafia]

He still needs to claim.

Because...?

[Voidedmafia]

I will double vote you for the lynch.

Did you really just claim double voter or am i overthinking this statement?

I think she just did.

But, RD, that wasn't what I was talking about. I want to know why you're going to me, and I STILL want to see that case from EB (yes, I will hound you for that case in nearly every post until you give it). I'm not claiming until I see either or both of these conditions are met (in other words, until I see a reason behind your vote). And no, I don't want "Welp, falling back on this," (no, I don't care that I did that with HIphop and am thus a hypocrite; when the time comes I will happily reiterate why I think he's scum, or sooner than that), I want at least one GOOD reason why you're going back to me.

I don't care if you just claimed DV or are just pulling our tails, you won't see a claim till then.

[Voidedmafia]

lolvoided
scum begging for reasons

More like demanding them. Especially from EB.

gtfo

No.

Rainbow put down one vote, give him another post to claim, the hit the red button.

Yes, she did. but I'd like to think I was going down for a REASON, not because "lol well, you're the only one left!"

Begging, demanding, think of it what you wish. I will stand by this until my condition(s) is/are met, or until RD uses her 2nd vote/someone else votes.

Thomith: oh, no. If RD would actually explain why she's voting me again and if EB had already complied and given me the case I've been asking them for, I would've claimed once RD said she was a DV or someone said they'd hammer after RD laid down that vote.

[Voidedmafia]

UNVOTE: VOTE: voided
(forgot to unvote)

Don't really need to unvote.

Anyways, reasons is all I need. So long as they're good ones, I'll comply and claim, and then you can go on from there.

I'll even make it simpler: RD, if you are going for me because you still stand by your previous case, I'll accept that reason.

EB gets no such luck, though. That case needs to come out whole and uncut before I'll accept it.

Elli: ...yeahno.

You can help by explaining why you were voting me again.

[Voidedmafia]

You just gave RD a reason even if that wasn't the reason. Surely there is a possibility RD might be scum and can't explain the reason and you just gave her a reason to use.

...Dude, don't make my head hurt.

Okay, lemme see if I can break this apart:

How did I give her a reason?

If there is a possibility for RDscum, I'm not sure how big it is.

[Voidedmafia]

Not helping, Thom.

ANyways, going to work. Better see reasons in 9 hours.

[Voidedmafia]

Thank you Grey, for locking while I was writing.

Thankfully, this error was corrected in time. Dying by MOd error (no offense) is NOT the way to go.

And yknow what, Neruz? Since you couldn't care to wait for RD to come along and hammer nor for me to claim (after all, RD did fufill one of my two conditions for claiming), you just got a one-way ticket to the hotseat and scumseat.

I mean, really. RD just basically said she's a DV, and she was going to use her vote on me to hammer me once I claimed (or decided not to). And she fufilled one of my either/and/or conditions (RD giving at least one GOOD reason why she was revoting me, even if it was her previous case), so I was effectively this close to claiming. Good job, there, mate.

Anyways, here are my reads that I MEANT to post prior to Grey getting here:

Rainbowdash is town - I haven't seen posts that are really scummy (or make me think that way), so she's one of the strongest townreads I have at the moment. Even if I still thinking saying pony instead of people is creepy.
Beck - null. Largely because I just don't like posts like 564 (and the ISOs before and after it)
Evil Bullet - leaning town. If they'd actually try to explain (re-explain) things about me, I could bump them to full town if it's logical and reasonable.
deselby - null.
hiphop - scum. Struggles with Neruz for top scum. I still stand by my half-finished case (yes, I know I haven't actually finished it.), mind.
Neruz - scum for that stunt he just pulled. Hmm...nah, he's top scum now.
Sleuth - lurker. null.
THomith - town as stated before.
Weirdviogts - learning town
Ellibereth - null, largely because I'm just so damn unsure of how to read you.
Llamarble - town so far.

[Voidedmafia]

Rainbowdash has no reason to lie about being a doublevoter if she's scum. It's an ability that can be confirmed true or false, so she knows she's going to get caught in a lie if she seriously claims it.

VOTE: Thomith
VOTE: Neruz

-bvoigt

for srs, WV? Or is the Thomith vote supposed to be an unvote?

Yeah, Neruz is scummier than Hiphop.

Vote: Neruz.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, screw me sideways. There goes my leaning-town-read on you, EB.

Yknow what? Forget your case on me. Forget your reads on me (or anyone, really). You know why? Because tomorrow, you're dead. Plain. And. Simple.

deselby* - scum.

What's with the asterik?

[Voidedmafia]

you two being Llama and...?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't feel like there'll be any reason to have to defend myself. Your tryhard fake town rage isn't impressive or convincing.

heh. You're trying to call actual rage "fake rage". Good luck with that, and die already.

[Voidedmafia]

EB seems to be trying too hard to make people who are annoyed by the hammer look scummy, although at least 4 people are annoyed by him hammering a town read for no reason, blaiming it on others and then saying people who call him out on it is scum.

Yeap, pretty much.

[Voidedmafia]

Anything we need to wait for?

He claims even night jk

Rainbow countered saying her role and his doesn't make sense

I don't think it's her directly countering EB (saying she has that role or at least a jailkeeper), just that a DV and JK together doesn't make sense. THat's just my take on it, though.

And I told you, EB, you're going to pay the price. I am willing to hammer.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided remains scum. BTW.

You can explain why this is, while we wait.

Well, if no other objections are forthcoming, I can go ahead and end the day.

[Voidedmafia]

You know what, banshee's reasoning for why a PR claim makes sence, and i am going to go on my other reasoning tha voided is slipping under the radar here.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Voided

*ahem*

*points to sig*

I have work 9 hours of the day, and I sleep for another 8 or 9. Most of the action here occurs at those times, so please don't tell me I'm slipping.

EB: If you're still breathing, you can start explaining what I asked of you nearly 10 pages ago. Or working on it.

And again, I don't have a lot of time to actually work on this, and when I do everyone else usually isn't on (except for the 2-3 hours from Noon to 3), so it's kinda hard to not appear oppurtunistic. And the events leading up to Neruz's and your bandwagons were really both of you effectively killing yourselves for stupid, scummy decisions, so don't say I'm oppurtunistic unless you've got a better reason for it.

Also, BLAKLJFLADJFKL 4 PAGES IN LESS THAN 5 HOURS!

Wait what the fuck, we've failed to hammer

again?

That's it, all future hammers must be triple checked by at least three players, independantly, with all relevant votes linked to and\or quoted. This is

stupid.

So. much. Agreement. Here.

Banshee: Did you have any questions for me? I can't remember if you or Llama asked me anything prior to the fakehammer on EB.

[Voidedmafia]

@VoidedMafia:

I had not asked you any questions yet. But now that you're here, I will.

Ah, must've been Llamarble, then.

Where would your heaviest suspicions fall if EB is lynched and flips town?

Probably Beck at first, largely because I don't quite understand what EB's getting at here.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... p3373112Do you think RBD should claim now? Do you think she should be lynched if she refuses to claim now?[/quote]
With the circumstances, yes I do. RD isn't in a position to be lynched like I was, but her refusal to claim here would just make things more confusing to the rest of us.

As for lynching her because she doesn't claim, I'm still trying to decide if that' reason enough on it's own. I'd still prefer if people gave another reason for wanting her lynched, though.

What are your opinions of Ellibereth, Thomith, and Neruz? How about Beck?

In order: nulltown, town, scummy, and null.

I don't really like her suddenly unvoting before Neruz's wagons, but there hasn't been much else to really much else to call her scum with.

I'm still standing by my townread on THomith, and nothing so far has changed my mind.

Neruz completely foregoing letting RB hammer (not to mention getting increasingly antsy beforehand) strikes me as coming from scum starting to get impatient with his mislynch. It could be town getting impatient with the lynch, too, but it seems like it'd come from scum more than town.

[Voidedmafia]

Scum:
Voided

You were on me...why, again?

I'm trying to see how strongly you feel the chance both roles are likely.

If we lynch him, you look extremely bad

so I'm trying to process this claim assuming you are town and scum

SCUM SLIP SCUM SLIP SCUM SLIP THIS GUY KNOWS I'M TOWN

...Well, if you're taking that at face value, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure you can tell he meant "if we lynch him and he flips his role, you look extremely bad", as he explained later.

Also, because I can believe that that part got cut out somehow. Trust me, it's happened to me before when my touchpad suddenly gets super-sensitive or something and the cursor jumps to where the mouse is at. Especially annoying when I'm deleting something and that happens.

Granted, I've never posted from a phone, nor do I care to really start (though that would help in keeping me up-to-date, I admit), but I could buy it.

You were untill this happened, and your actions lately have been quite pro-town except the typo thing.

What's been pro-town about our recent actions? It seems like your opinion is directly related to how much I've been on your case.

That is the second possible slip that indicates EB is town. I'm no longer confident in this (and also, it doesn't seem like their role and the role I suspect Rainbowdash has aren't really that implausible together).

UNVOTE: Evil Bullet
VOTE: Beck

-bvoigt

Bad vote. Gotta be at the top of the post (and the first thing of said post), remember?

@implosion: Who is your strongest scum read? I am assuming it's still me. So, if you were to successfully lynch me and I flipped town, where would your suspicion land then?

You've given two town reads and one scum read

, do you have ANYTHING else to contribute?

What do you think is the scummiest thing I've done since replacing into the game? What was the scummiest thing deselby did?

@bolded: not true.

How do you feel about these reads now? Especially mine since I'm back in the hotseat again.

This day is way too long.

Part 2 will come starting with RD's post asking me if I finished Hiphop's case.

[Voidedmafia]

@VM - Finished the hiphop case yet?

...Oh, fuck, I forgot once you all got to badgering me about my claim.

Thanks for reminding me. Just don't expect it to be completed (or even posted) before I go to bed, though.

Next wagon we have to kill regardless of claim.

I'd still put some consideration for the claim in, but I agree with the thought behind this.

I don't remember if Voided had claimed at all though.

Yes I did. I claimed VT.

Vote VM

No he didn't claim. Neruz hammer shennanigans pulled the wagon onto him.

Bad vote. And yes I did.

Rainbow, here are my reasons why I was voting Void

*list of quotes*

Already explained these.

As for the 3rd one...I don't think Elli actually answered me. This one's still wrong since it overlooked where I actually DID ask why.

And the fourth one isn't even a reason thanks to your own correction.

5th one: Irrelevant since I've had thomith as a townread pretty much since that post and haven't budged it since.

We should talk about my role less and talk about why the wagon on VM disappeared and is still gone when the pony who caused the wagon to disappear by hammering has since then been ruled probably town by everypony and their mothers.

Not me. And I still hold EB suspicious for hammering a town read.

Need to recheck my Hiphop case, and finish it up to confirm whether or not I still think Hip's scummy. My vote will come after that if I still think he is.

RD: No, i'm not. Mainly because most of the votes aren't in the right syntax for Grey.

[Voidedmafia]

Blah Implosion ISO started out scummy but didn't end scumawesomely so I don't get to stop reading and lynch them.
We're lynching voided again? Why not Bullet? I guess I'll reread Bullett argghbedtime

1.) So you read EB as scummier than me?
2.) Recap your case on me again, please.

[Voidedmafia]

Although VM with this 'please lay out your precise case against me' stuff isn't great either.

I ask because I don't like to be lynched without reason, with the obvious exception of needing a lynch near the deadline and everyone's already agreed that I'm one of the suspects who should be lynched. Since that isn't the case (...yet), I require reasons, good sir.

[Voidedmafia]

I wish that I could actually live past D1 when I start as scum -_-. BOTH TIMES, LYNCHED D1! AAALJFAKLDJFL

*sigh* w/e. Go scum.

[Voidedmafia]

Meh.

First fakehammer: worked PERFECTLY...or as near as perfect as Elli and I wanted. Got me out of the hotseat, and got us both townpoints.

2nd fakehammer: ...Dammit.

3rd fakehammer: Oh, fuck it. Not that I really expected the heat to come back to me, but still, I was fairly pissed.

Still, my sincerest apologies about the 2nd fakehammer, Grey. I think I'll try to keep my votes on a single line from now on.

[Voidedmafia]

Fourth, IIRC?

[Voidedmafia]

I think that, if I had lived past D1, we would've had more of a chance, especially since I would've been far more active than Elli.

Considering how Hiphop seems to have disappeared (or I'm just not looking for him), it does kinda feel like I'd have been carrying the team alone, tbh.

Still, Elli, your lurking killed you.

[Voidedmafia]

Pretty sure Ellli did...

If not, I'll do it after work.

[Voidedmafia]

Seems like the consensus was that my death is what broke us down?

[Voidedmafia]

Or was the major factor, at least.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmph

[Voidedmafia]

Clearly.

HIPHOP, STOP JOINING MY GAMES AND BEING SCUM WITH ME, DAMMIT!