Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Neruz]

VOTE: Voidedmafia for trying to ruin everyone's fun.

[Neruz]

I have no idea what you two are talking about, but you're both taking it far too seriously for RVS.

[Neruz]

I'll be honest Thomith, you've scored a few scum points in that little alitercation.

VOTE: hiphop for having a name that is similar to hiplop.

[Neruz]

If Thomith is scummy, why make a second RVS vote?

OK, if Tomith is scummy, then why did you place another random vote?

Why not!

[Neruz]

If Thomith is scummy, why make a second RVS vote?

OK, if Tomith is scummy, then why did you place another random vote?

Why not!

Um, wouldn't you usually vote your suspects? Even if this is RVS somewhat.

I didn't say i suspected him, i said he scored some scum points. I'd need a hell of a lot more than just one rather mildly scummy reaction before i start 'suspecting' someone, especially given there are plenty of players who havn't even posted yet.

[Neruz]

Wow, i go to sleep and wake up to

this?

[Neruz]

Wow, i go to sleep and wake up to

this?

Not sure what he's referring to...

I went to sleep after Thomith and Voidedmafia had each overreacted to the other a bit and generally been either slightly scummy or mildly stupid. I come back to discover they set off a resonance cascade of ever escalating absurdity over the next three pages.

And there's also fucking ponies.

VOTE: Thomith for scummy reaction to early pressure.

FOS: Voidedmafia

for taking Thomith's overreaction and running with it like an opportunistic scum.

One of these two is probably scum, possibly both if one is third party. I can't see two townies having that interaction with each other.

[Neruz]

Considering we supposidly have three Cults in play, i wouldn't be surprised if Thomith and Voided both turn out to be Cult Leaders.

[Neruz]

@Neruz - Explain how the exchange between Thomith and VM cannot come from town v town

I cannot, such absolutes do not exist in Mafia.

Third party talk from Neruz bugs me a bit since I could nearly guarentee you that there is no third party in this game and its a great scum scare tactic to throw that in.

GreyICE advertised this game specifically as being the first normal game to be approved with three cult leaders. I have no idea if he was serious or just dicking around though.

[Neruz]

@Neruz - Explain how the exchange between Thomith and VM cannot come from town v town

I cannot, such absolutes do not exist in Mafia.

Fine. Explain why the exchange between Thomith and VM "probably" cannot come from town v town.

Being snide will get you nowhere.

Because i cannot imagine a town mindset that would result in an escalating shouting match to that degree. The kind of fear that leads one to attempt to back-justify like that does not come from town, in my experience.

Third party talk from Neruz bugs me a bit since I could nearly guarentee you that there is no third party in this game and its a great scum scare tactic to throw that in.

GreyICE advertised this game specifically as being the first normal game to be approved with three cult leaders. I have no idea if he was serious or just dicking around though.

Unless I fail to understand the definiton of normal, cults are not normal, and cannot exist in a normal game. I still can basically give you that "absolute" that there is no cult. Stop trying to spread paranoia.

Take it up with GreyICE, not me. I'd quote the PM he sent me (and presumably others), but i think that technically violates Rule 1. Regardless, GreyICE explicitly stated there were three cult recruiters in this game, that it had been rejected over 11 times by Vi and Hoopla, called a travesty to the concept of balance and fair play and winner of the most explicitly non-normal role submissions that will be explicitly blacklisted on the wiki as soon as the reviewers find their jaws.

How much of that is true i have no idea, but given this is GreyICE we're dealing with i'm going to assume it's all true unless i get some compelling evidence to the contrary.

[Neruz]

@Neruz - Games need to be approved. Three cult recruiters would not be approved, especially since I don't think that can even balance with just 13 ponies playing.

Plenty of shit has gotten through the approval process before; it's highly subjective. You can say all you like about balance and approval processes, but until i see definitive proof that GreyICE's PM is outright lies, i am going to operate under the assumption that it is not, purely because it's far too dangerous to assume it is lies if it turns out to be truths.

[Neruz]

I'll also be a little miffed if it does turn out to be outright lies since that PM was basically why i /inned to this game.

[Neruz]

*Sadfase*

[Neruz]

I don't know about anyone else, but i don't think i've ever said that there is no way your overreaction could be town motivated. I can't

see

a way it could be, but that doesn't mean a way doesn't exist. I'm not omniscient after all.

[Neruz]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.

I have. It appears that not everyone was willing to accept my explanation, but its there. The simple reality is it was two dozen posts into the game in RVS before everyone had checked in yet and one player reacted in a mildly scummy way to some pressure imposed by another player. I wasn't gunning for a lynch and there was no need to apply more pressure on Thomith because ample pressure was already being applied.

I'm not sure why these basic concepts seem so hard for some people to grasp, but apparently they are.

[Neruz]

Fair enough, but you didn't actually explain it that way in the post you quote here.

If you'd stopped to think about the post for half a second instead of just mindlessly sheeping someone else's argument, you'd have realised all of what i just said because it's the most blatantly obvious play in the history of mafia.

Mafia is a game of wits deselby, how about you start using yours?

[Neruz]

How do you expect to be able to scumhunt if you can't read between the lines?

[Neruz]

Hiphop is using meta against me and using it badly. At this time i find it more of a null tell than a scum tell and find the people who seem to be following him with no reasons of their own the scummy ones, Voided is a prime example of this.
However Hiphop saying "There is no town motivaton behind your posts" seems like he is reaching here, however i don't find it majorly scummy that he is doing this, at this point in time anyway.

This doesn't make sense.

If you are town, then there obviously

is

town motivation behind your posts, ergo from your POV Hiphop is blatantly wrong when he states there is no town motivation behind your posts. You should be all over him for that; you have something which you know, for a

fact

is incorrect.

Unless, of course, you're not town and you know that Hiphop is right, in which case that post makes perfect sense. Hello scum.

[Neruz]

Obviously i know there is town motivation behind my posts, however i don't think he is scum at the moment. At this point i am thinking he is probably town trying to find scum but his reasons for voting me seem flawed, also i am trying to convince him he is wrong, however you don't have to be "in your face" to defend yourself.

My point was that you should be trying to both explain said town motivation and actively defending that part of Hiphop's accusations, rather than just doing the mafia equivilant of shrugging your shoulders and going 'meh', because it makes you look like you have no defense.

[Neruz]

p.1 - voided clearly missed where hip said Thom was always scum and thom replied back showing he hasn't always been scum, clearly it wasn't a claim and anyone who actually thinks it was isn't looking at the big picture, so that would be specifically voided and

neuru

.

What?!

Where the fuck did i say i thought Thomith was claiming scum.

My god, how do people who cannot read english manage to sign up for Mafia games on an english forum.

[Neruz]

p.1 - voided clearly missed where hip said Thom was always scum and thom replied back showing he hasn't always been scum, clearly it wasn't a claim and anyone who actually thinks it was isn't looking at the big picture, so that would be specifically voided and

neuru

.

What?!

Where the fuck did i say i thought Thomith was claiming scum.

My god, how do people who cannot read english manage to sign up for Mafia games on an english forum.

ok please don't insult my intelligence again, it's obvious you think he is scummy for what he was saying because of this

I'll be honest Thomith, you've scored a few scum points in that little alitercation.

VOTE: hiphop for having a name that is similar to hiplop.

sure you didn't SAY it, but you sort of IMPLIED it because you thought he was scummy.

I can readed da engrish gooder

Clearly not. Thomith scored scum points because he overreacted to Voidedmafia's pressure.

When you say someone has done something, do check to make sure they

actually did it.

Otherwise you just look like lying scum and any attempts to correct yourself just look like covering your ass.

[Neruz]

if you think somebody is scummy, you potentially think they can be scum.

Incorrect. Townies are capable of doing things that look scummy.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: And for those of you who are apparently incapable of understanding basic mafia concepts, Thomith scored a few scum points because he took Voided's joke about him 'claiming scum' seriously. Townies

typically

don't react defensively to jokes like that, it was a small thing and in RVS so i didn't see any reason to take it particulary seriously yet, townies are capable of being jumpy too and it wasn't like he'd overreacted crazily and turned the entire thing into a four page discussion.

Yet.

[Neruz]

if you think somebody is scummy, you potentially think they

can

be scum.

Incorrect. Townies are capable of doing things that look scummy.

now who can't read English?

I assumed that was an error, since

anyone

can

be scum. Only mod-confirmation a player as town makes it impossible for them to be scum.

So, uh, good job stating the bleeding obvious there. My error for overestimating you.

[Neruz]

But it doesn't explain how you think somebody is scummy, yet refuse to pursue it with pressure from a vote

*COUGH COUGH*

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.

I have. It appears that not everyone was willing to accept my explanation, but its there. The simple reality is it was two dozen posts into the game in RVS before everyone had checked in yet and one player reacted in a mildly scummy way to some pressure imposed by another player. I wasn't gunning for a lynch and there was no need to apply more pressure on Thomith because ample pressure was already being applied.

I'm not sure why these basic concepts seem so hard for some people to grasp, but apparently they are.

*COUGH* TRY

READING

NEXT TIME *COUGH*

Also;

You unvote void because you like him as a town read so you don't want your vote on him

I have no fucking clue where you got that from. I unvoted void because i felt like it and it was still RVS.

[Neruz]

I read your explanation, doesn't mean I beleive it

You didn't say anything about believing it. You said i didn't explain it. Not explaining something != not believing the explanation.

The 2nd part, dude for saying I can't read you clearly fail at it cause I explained how I (bolded it even) perceived your actions.

This means, this was MY INTERPRETATION OF THE SERIES OF EVENTS.

Which is wrong, and i'm making sure you are aware of that because you are apparently intellectually challenged.

[Neruz]

but fine, you think I am intellectually challenged explain this to me please.

From your earlier explanation -

I didn't say i suspected him, i said he scored some scum points. I'd need a hell of a lot more than just one rather

mildly

scummy reaction before i start 'suspecting' someone,

from post 179 -

Thomith scored scum points because he

overreacted

to Voidedmafia's pressure

definition of mildly(well mild acttually) - mild (mld)

adj. mild•er, mild•est
1. Gentle or kind in disposition, manners, or behavior.
2.
a. Moderate in type, degree, effect, or force: a mild pipe tobacco; a mild sedative.

definition of overreact -

overreact [ˌəʊvərɪˈækt]
vb
(intr) to react excessively to something

so was his reaction a mild scummy reaction like you said at first or was it an overreaction like you said more recently?

It would be helpful if you kept your story straight so that is why i am asking for clarification, you know being that I am so "intellectually challenged" and all.

and lastly, please don't insult my intelligence again.

See, it's posts like these which is why i keep calling you an idiot. You clearly don't understand English at all despite your protests to the contrary.

Thomith overreacted to Voidedmafia's pressure, that overreaction was mildly scummy and scored him a few scum points. And if it wasn't for the fact that you have shown a distinct lack of comprehension when it comes to basic English, i'd think you were trying to create scumtells on me.

[Neruz]

he is easily exasperated

This. I have zero tolerance for idiocy.

[Neruz]

Oi GreyICE, where's that votecount you lazy bum?

[Neruz]

Oi GreyICE, where's that votecount you lazy bum?

He wasn't this inactive in the last game, when he went and creamed me because I was intent on following him instead of being more aggressive.

I do not understand what this post has to do with the quoted post.

[Neruz]

Neruz- What do you mean you don't understand? As active as he was in the last game, if he doesn't have time to post a vote count, then he must be extremely busy right now.

Ohh, that's what you were getting at. Yeah i'm sure GreyICE has a perfectly good excuse (ehh, maybe not that sure >.>) the calling GreyICE a lazy bum was meant as a joke, since he promised one awhile back but failed to deliver

[Neruz]

@Mod: I don't appear to be on the vote count, I'm pretty sure i'm voting for Thomith

In unrelated news, i'm not sure where this wagon on hiphop has come from; an ISO of him looks fairly town to me.

[Neruz]

Have you been reading, or to be more specific have you been reading Rainbowdash's posts? Iso her.

Rainbowdash looks a lot like town mastin tbh, not quite the same, but many similarities. Despite her pony obsession, she's town. Annoying, but town.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: Rainbowdash's last post is quite scummy actually, retract my statement about her being town.

[Neruz]

[

EBWOP: Rainbowdash's last post is quite scummy actually, retract my statement about her being town.

I agree, but I still believe she is town. Literally, every single post(except for the last one) screams town. And one cannot and should not ignore that.

Oh i'm not ignoring it, but that last post is a bad post and that's enough for me to consider Rainbow a null pony for now.

[Neruz]

As far as i am aware, while daytalk is not uncommon on MS, it's not the norm.

[Neruz]

Oh, i forgot to mention, day talk can indeed occur in a normal game. I ran a mini normal where scum had day talk and it was approved for normalcy.

[Neruz]

You know, it just occured to me that hiphop's post there is extremely town.

[Neruz]

Wait.
Hang on.

Beck, if scum talking wasn't on your mind when you made the comment about Voided's response being coached, how exactly were you expecting Voided to get coaching on his responses?

[Neruz]

Where?

The one deselby quoted where he leapt on Beck for implying day talk.

[Neruz]

When I posted the "coaching" comment I wasn't thinking about scum talk.

Hiphop just made an assumption based on nothing

I was referring to it looked like coaching(in-game) to me because void just seems to accept what rainbow says with no other response back, just "ok" and moved on

That's stood out as odd to me

I do not think that coaching means what you think it means. I think the word you are looking for is 'sheeping' not 'coaching'.

[Neruz]

who coached who in game?

It looked like rainbow spoke, and void listened and accepted her posts with no real feedback. Maybe coaching was the wrong phrase but void's responses just didn't feel natural to me.

Yeah, that's not coaching, that's sheeping. Coaching would be if rainbow told void what to do.

[Neruz]

If a player says something and a second player just mindlessly agrees with the first player without adding anything to the discussion, that's sheeping. At least that's the definition i've always used.

[Neruz]

i don't see scum motivation behind creating a mislynch wagon day 1.

wut

I don't see why scum would draw so much attention to themselves by creating a mislynch wagon day 1.

[Neruz]

Page 15...

I don't even...

[Neruz]

I don't think anyone is calling hip an easy target, I feel thom is an easy target cause of his obvious similarities to a VI/SI

The thing with hiplop is he is an experienced player and thom is scummy, clearly if I can make a wall on him, he is obviously scummy do

he is an easy target

if he is town. If he is scum, he won't last til end game.

Let's just agree that thom is scummy, but let him not be lynched d1

So question to hip, has anyone else garnished your attention as being scummy and you would be intersted in voting?

If yes, who and explain why they are scummy.

[Neruz]

Wait, ignore previous rage, i misread Beck's post.

[Neruz]

Can we please start using the preview button to make sure all our tags are working properly so we don't get shit like that?

Fix'd

[Neruz]

I don't think anyone is calling hip an easy target, I feel thom is an easy target cause of his obvious similarities to a VI/SI

The thing with hiplop is he is an experienced player and thom is scummy, clearly if I can make a wall on him, he is obviously scummy do

he is an easy target

if he is town. If he is scum, he won't last til end game.

Let's just agree that thom is scummy, but let him not be lynched d1

So question to hip, has anyone else garnished your attention as being scummy and you would be intersted in voting?

If yes, who and explain why they are scummy.

Again with the reading, hip is attacking thom, cause THOM IS AN EASY TARGET

The HIM/HE is Thom, not hip

*Cough*

Wait, ignore previous rage, i misread Beck's post.

[Neruz]

This is hilarious.

It's confusing is what it is.

[Neruz]

Why am i getting these overwhelming scum feelings from reading Beck's posts? I can't find anything

especially

scummy there, only VIey, but i keep coming away with my gut screaming 'scuuuum, scuuuuuuuum'.

[Neruz]

aka that felt fucking disingenious
discredatious
whatever the hell the word is
discreditationgenious
one example
one "Viey" example from Beck
Though you seem to see more than one, or feel more than one somewhere.
Just quote them over.

I'm not sure what you're after, but i'm guessing you want some examples of Beck's posts that i'm getting hueg scum vibes from:

Oh your other points

1. I dont beleive your explanations cause I read your posts and I feel my interpretation is right
2. I'm not trying to coach you so I don't know why you think I am

@ void, obviously you are going to disagree with if, regardless of your alignment.

Unfortunately I go off my own interpretations and I feel your explanations aren't truthful

Not even sure why you said im coaching you, that's a big stretch.

Lastly, That's great you agree with everyone. I wish I could do that.

Are the two that immediately come to mind. I have no idea why, logically i can't see anything in there except blind stubbornness, but something i can't put my finger on just seems

off

.

[Neruz]

I don't care about scumvibes
well I do, that's natural, and it's nice that you quoted. Gut is just gut.
What I don't get is the 'Viey' part of things you brought up.
What's 'Viey' there. At all. And don't say stubborness.

Um, that would be the blind stubbornness? Voided gave reasoning for most of the things Beck brought up, Beck responded with what basically amounted to 'no ur wrong'. That's pretty standard VI territory there.

I do find it interesting how fast you chainsawed me though.

[Neruz]

Everyone should stop trying to use associative tells without a flip.

You realise that in the context, wierd is suggesting that we flip you.

[Neruz]

That is a very noncommittal response there.

[Neruz]

Neruz does not sheep, Neruz always carefully considers every action he takes. Sometimes he then says fuck it and does something else anyway, but never sheep.

I do not see any compelling evidence as why i should unvote Thomith. Vote stays where it is.

[Neruz]

Neruz does not sheep, Neruz always carefully considers every action he takes. Sometimes he then says fuck it and does something else anyway, but never sheep.

I do not see any compelling evidence as why i should unvote Thomith. Vote stays where it is.

Would you vote Deselby if a thomith wagon isn't going to happen today and desel's at L-1 (or L-2) with 3< days before deadline?

Probably.

[Neruz]

Oh, did i forget to answer that. Meh.

A chainsaw defence is when a mafia player attacks a non-mafia player who is attacking his scumbuddy.

[Neruz]

Okay
Take away flips
Player A attacks Player B for his bad attack on Player C.
Then what.

I'd also you didn't anwser and just voted Voided.
Thomith isn't happening, he's bullet bait.

If C doesn't defend himself and lets A do all the work then that is a pretty strong scumtell for C.

I will vote voided if and only if we are in the last 24 hours and there are no other possible lynch candidates and not one moment sooner.

[Neruz]

Honestly the 'free passes' nonsense is either boredom with this day lasting so long or a trap to catch scum. Nothing else makes even the remotest lick of sense.

Of course we are talking about a bronie, so expecting sense may be a little much.

[Neruz]

Why the hell has voided refused to claim when he was put at L-1? Suddenly i don't see a good reason to not lynch him right the hell now.

[Neruz]

He can have one last chance to claim. If he blows that, then he becomes the lynch of the day.

[Neruz]

You have no idea how relaxed i am.

[Neruz]

Here voided. Where are you, my itchy hammer finger is hanging here.

[Neruz]

The only person hammering is rainbow, anyone else hammers gets autolynched tomorrow

We are confirming this double vote

You do realise that a double vote can be confirmed at any stage of the game right?

[Neruz]

The only person hammering is rainbow, anyone else hammers gets autolynched tomorrow

We are confirming this double vote

You do realise that a double vote can be confirmed at any stage of the game right?

Right but she is trying to lead town and has been very wishy washy so it needs to happen today

Why?

[Neruz]

*Shrug* Doesn't matter to me. If ponies are a DV then they're probably town and there's no rush on that information, if ponies aren't a DV and were messing about or referring to her supposed voting bloc as i suspect then i honestly don't care.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

No clue if that's actually the hammer since Grey's votecount is pretty messed up. But i'm going to sleep now. Night.

[Neruz]

In unrelated news:

wtf is this obssession with the double vote being real or not.

Because he's scum.

Duh.

So we learned that Neruz Said they would let voided claim and didn't although luckily the hammer was not a hammer,

oh the irony Neruz

, now explain why you seemingly hammered without letting voided claim?

There is no irony anywhere in this situation. You sir, are a fucking crime to the english language and after answering your question i will no longer speak with you.

The reason why i placed my vote without caring if it was a hammer before a claim or not is simple. Note the timestamps.

Not helping, Thom.

ANyways, going to work. Better see reasons in 9 hours.

*Shrug* Doesn't matter to me. If ponies are a DV then they're probably town and there's no rush on that information, if ponies aren't a DV and were messing about or referring to her supposed voting bloc as i suspect then i honestly don't care.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

No clue if that's actually the hammer since Grey's votecount is pretty messed up. But i'm going to sleep now. Night.

I am a townie, feel free to lynch me to get some nice VCA on the unbelievably easy lynch. The scum on my wagon will desperately attempt to claim that i looked so scummy that my lynch was justified, don't let them get away with that. It is justified, but it's also extremely easy and i guarantee there will be at least one scum who just can't resist.

[Neruz]

Normally i'd advise ponies to avoid revealing secretses if town on Day 1 since that's just a terrible idea, but since ponies have already drawn massive scum attention and are probably going to get mafiakilled tonight anyway, do what you will.

[Neruz]

Hmm, implosion, Beck, Thomith seems like an unlikely scumteam. Perhaps i'm not giving implosion enough credit.

[Neruz]

Good work there EB. Hope you guys manage to catch the scum on my wagon, i will be really pissed if you just discount the whole thing.

[Neruz]

Also pay close attention to EB's hammer post guys. Specifically the part where he says he doesn't know what the wagon happened as he joins it and then asks someone to explain after the thread lock, clearly showing that he knew it was a hammer. If there is a vig i would highly reccommend EB as a target.

[Neruz]

Llama, i just got hammered. Why on earth would i sit here pretending to be town if i was scum?

[Neruz]

You're an idiot Llama. My alignment will be revealed quite easy the instant GreyICE gets back, i have nothing to gain by lying.

[Neruz]

As an addendum, as scum at this point i would just stop posting, not wanting to accidentally implicate any of my buddies.

[Neruz]

Yeah Bullet's hammer was pretty bad. But the worst part is that after he made it he pretended that he did it by accident despite the fact that he clearly stated in the hammer post that he knew it was a hammer.

[Neruz]

I expect EB will probably go quiet and try to lurk his way through the beginning of the next day and wait for something else to catch the town's attention, since there is really no way to defend that hammer and the subsequent posts

[Neruz]

And then pretend it was an accident and blame someone else.

[Neruz]

oh stfu. This is your fault. You and your poisoned EoH. Rather it is elements of atonality, discord, and cacophony.

Yes EB, that's right, it's ponies fault that you hammered a town read.

Oh and it's Llama's fault too apparently. Anyone's fault but yours. That.

You.

Hammered.

A.

Town.

Read.

[Neruz]

The only thing that can be taken from your hammer is you are stupid scum who jumped at the chance for a lynch without thinking it through properly.

[Neruz]

The only thing that can be taken from your hammer is you are stupid scum who jumped at the chance for a lynch without thinking it through properly.

Do you realize you're accusing me of doing exactly what your wagon went from 0 to 6 in 3.7 seconds for?

No, i'm not. I hammered Voided because he refused to claim and then attempted to lurk his way out of being lynched. I certainly didn't hammer a town read,

which you have admitted to doing.

In fact i'm not sure i ever had a town read on Voided.

[Neruz]

If i'm not hammered i am going to have words with GreyICE about his vote counts.

[Neruz]

Well considering i claimed VT and i havn't retracted that after being hammered, yes i think it is reasonable to assume that i am a fucking VT.

[Neruz]

Jesus christ i am so glad i'm out of this game.

[Neruz]

That's because he's realised he's in an incredibly shitty position and it was entirely his own stupid fault, so he's desperately looking for (and failing to find) a way out.

[Neruz]

Goddamnit GreyICE, is it really too much to ask for you to at least check the thread once a day?

[Neruz]

There is no reason to hammer a town read. EB can't explain why he hammered a town read either. Actually EB if you can answer why you hammered a town read it might help out your case.

No explanation for hammering a town read exists. You're just making yourself look scummy by asking foro ne.

[Neruz]

I was bored and sick of the day, so i took an action to attempt to end the day. I had no idea if it would work or not since the votecount was all messed up but i was beyond caring.

[Neruz]

Well the other option was for me to just stop caring about the game entirely and possibly request replacement, causing the mod difficulty in finding one. I'd rather not force that on GreyICE, especially since lynching Voided would have given the town good information and making myself an obvious target also gives the town good information. It's basically a win/win from my perspective.

[Neruz]

You're bad at mafia in general.

[Neruz]

...


VOTE: Evil Bullet

[Neruz]

I don't give a wooden nickle if he claimed Innocent Child,

he tried to hammer a goddamn town read.

[Neruz]

Wait what the fuck, we've failed to hammer

again?

That's it, all future hammers must be triple checked by at least three players, independantly, with all relevant votes linked to and\or quoted. This is

stupid.

[Neruz]

I just facedesked so hard my forehead has a keyboard shaped indentation on it.

[Neruz]

No, I'm going in a different direction altogether, if that wasn't the hammer. I've had more time to read and think and I'm pretty confident in this vote.

UNVOTE: VOTE: VoidedMafia

Goddamnit Banshee,

EB has admitted to deliberately attempting to hammer a town read.

[Neruz]

Yes, and I STILL don't find him the most scummy. Isn't that interesting?

If EB is hammered and he cardflips town, where will your suspicions go then, Neruz? Do you think that's even possible? Are you arguing that it's a policy lynch, or are you certain that EB is scum?

My suspicions would go to RD, due to the role claiming stuff. Depending on what ponies claims would depend on my next action, probably to Beck if RD checked out. I sincerely doubt he will flip town however.

[Neruz]

For fucks sake, you people and your claims.

Rainbow does not need to full claim, the

only

point at which Rainbow needs to full claim is if EB dies and flips town even night jailkeeper. If and only if that occurs, does RD need to claim.

Until then, all the town needs to know is that RD believes his role conflicts with EB's claim. No more information is neccessary, and you and Beck are gaining hueg scum points for pushing RD to claim. PR's claiming early is

bad for the town

. If you are town, fucking stop it.

If i wake up tomorrow morning and find you guys have forced RD to claim with lynch threats i will flip the fuck out and open a can of enraged screaming all over this thread.

[Neruz]

You confirmed yourself as scum already.

I will take those words and a steel cactus and i will ram them down your throat with the cactus, your very presence in this universe actively detracts from the intelligence and sanity of every sentient being, the mere concept of your existence causes measurable harm to the intellectual processing ability of the entire species and the very idea that someone like you might possibly exist in any of the uncountable multiverses that splay across the infinite sea of possibility renders this game nearly impossible for the town to win you boneheaded retard.

To everyone else, good night.

[Neruz]

It should not be possible to upset the balance of a normal game by claiming roles.

[Neruz]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that scum ponies would bus Voided like that on day 1 after a fakehammer with at least one other target. Banshee, you don't look like scum, so i'm guessing you're just a misguided slightly tunneling townie. Think about it seriously; what exactly does scum ponies have to gain from acting the way she has? Very little indeed.

Also the reason EB wasn't nightkilled, assuming he is a town Even Night Jailkeeper (which seems likely) should be

blatantly

ovbious to every one of you and i'm ashamed that it isn't: Even Night Jailkeepers can only jail players on even nights and they can't jail themselves. That means there's no reason to kill him until Night 2,

as he cannot protect anyone night 1 and thus is not a threat to the scum in any way.

I would expect EB to die tonight, unless the scum decide to gambit.

It's interesting to note that in light of Voided's role, Beck's comment about Voided being coached was probably correct, i'm not entirely sure what that means for Beck, i'm inclined to say it makes him scummy, but he would have to be pretty goddamn stupid to point that out and i'm not entirely sure that i believe Beck is

that

dumb.

[Neruz]

Uh, i must have missed that, why is Beck confirmed town?

[Neruz]

You've lost me.

[Neruz]

I feel so stupid right now. Excuse me while i go be ashamed in the corner.

[Neruz]

I pointed it out, how no-one noticed before me i don't know. Some of the people who posted before i did are supposidly intelligent and good at mafia, so how they missed that particular tidbit escapes me.

Even if EB fails to die tonight it wouldn't be that scummy, because to be perfectly honest even night jailkeeper is not a particulary potent role at all and there's a reasonable amount of suspicion floating around him that it would not be a bad idea for scum to leave him around as a red herring.

[Neruz]

...

Why

would it be too late to kill him tonight?

[Neruz]

I'm assuming that... okay, for the sake of argument, Neruz, if you think I'm scum and you're a jailkeeper, and you jailkeep me, I can't kill you or anyone else, can I?

Kills are not resolved before roleblocks, are they?

Indeed, but the odds that i would successfully jailkeep the scum who is killing are extremely low, and i have no way whatsoever of knowing if the kill was stopped because i roleblocked you or because i protected you.

All in all, not really a huge threat at all, and given the situation EB is in atm as scum i would absolutely be willing to risk it for now at least.

[Neruz]

@Neruz: As scum, what is the advantage of passing up killing two town power roles in order to aim at an unidentified third in the town pool?

The two town power roles are in a fight and a significant amount of suspicion is orbiting both, one is not a threat until N2 and the other has hinted that her role gives certain information.

Given the state of the game at the end of day 1, there was a reasonable chance that EB would get lynched today, if he is lynched and flips town, then RD immediately becomes suspect number 1 and has a good chance of getting lynched the following day. Ironically, killing Beck actually help prevent EB's lynch.

Is it enough to keep EB and RD alive indefinitely? Certainly not, but as scum with one of my scumbuddies lynched D1 i'd be willing to risk an unknown PR for one night to get a chance at two possible mislynches.


If EB or RD survive to the endgame then that would be cause for suspicon, but it's not much at the moment.

[Neruz]

Well, yeah, of course no-one is pusing EB's lynch

now

, Beck flipped odd-night vig which makes EB's even night JK claim substantially more plausible. Scum would have to be pretty dumb to push for EB's lynch in light of Beck's flip and RD has too much support to be an easy mislynch at this juncture.

Scum have to be pretty annoyed right now, all things considered, i'd expect that the scum are probably lurking a bit, trying to avoid notice and slide through till the night so they can start strategising again and make sense of this mess.

Of course i could be wrong and the entire thing could be an elaborate deception, but i doubt it.

[Neruz]

I'll be honest, right now it looks pretty good for implosion being scum trying to coast to day 4 with a 'pr' claim.

[Neruz]

Yes, so you claim, but i'm not entirely sure i trust you.

[Neruz]

But what if he doesn't think you are what you think he thinks what he thinks you are?

[Neruz]

We have a miller claim? Where?

[Neruz]

oh right, that makes more sense.

Yeah, we do seem to have a lot of PR's.

[Neruz]

It's possible the PR claims are real, so far most of the claimed PR's have been fairly weak with the strongest being Watcher.

[Neruz]

Watcher is a reasonably powerful role which becomes less powerful the more active roles are in the game. Watcher + Bodyguard is reasonably potent, exactly how potent depends on exactly how the Bodyguard's action works (whether or not the watcher would see the killer target the Bodyguard on a successful protect), but isn't even close to as powerful as a Doc + Cop combination or a Doc + Vig or even a a Cop + Vig, all of which are fairly common.

I could buy a Watcher + Bodyguard + Odd Vig + Even Jailkeeper + another weak role or two. A 'major' PR claim at this juncture would be quite suspicious, but even then given that we know that at the very least the scum had an Encryptor so it's entirely possible this is a high power game on both sides. High power doesn't neccessarily unbalance the game, just makes it more swingy and harder to predict.

It depends on exactly what the claims are. If we get a Cop and a Doc claim then yeah, that's a bit much even for a high power game. If we get anorther even\odd pair or a tracker or something then i'd probably buy it for now.

[Neruz]

We won't know unless he claims it. I can't think of any normal PR that wouldn't work if he claims it but is fine if he claims it on day 4, i mean there is no way in hell if he is town he's going to survive till day 4

now

, i cannot possibly see scum taking that chance.

If he doesn't claim, i'd be willing to push a policy lynch on him. We've massclaimed, info is out in the open now, town have nothing to gain by trying to keep secrets. Yes this mass claim is really early, but it's too late to take it back now.

Also, seeing as we have a claimed bodyguard and a claimed watcher it's going to be extremely difficult for scum to sucessfully kill a strong power role anyway. If Implosion claims something better than Watcher then he can get bodyguarded and the watcher can watch implosion. Scum can't kill him because that'll just kill the bodyguard, so they have to start with the watcher, which means implosion survives until day 4 anyway.

If scum has an RB they can cockblock implosion, but if they have an RB they're probably going to do that anyway given his claim. Seriously, implosion, you need to fucking claim properly.

[Neruz]

Bodyguard is a role that protects, Jailkeeper is a role that protects, two protecting roles in a mini game is a little abnormal.

[Neruz]

@Neruz:
You have not claimed yet, have you?

I'm pretty sure i claimed VT when i was about to be lynched.

[Neruz]

Bodyguard is a role that protects, Jailkeeper is a role that protects, two protecting roles in a mini game is a little abnormal.

But an Even night JK does make a little more sence with a odd night vig then a bg does, although a watcher makes more sence with a bg so that goes nowhere, i think there have been minis with 2 protection roles though, however i don't know how true that is.

The difference would be that the odd night vig is confirmed to be true. No other roles have been, but EB's claim makes far more sense in conjunction with Beck's. However, if the scum have a day rolecop and daytalk they could have potentially investigated Beck during Day One, framed a complementary claim and then pushed his lynch unsuccessfully and so shot him last night.

It's possible, but to me it seems pretty unlikely.

Lot

of if's there. Unless we get a claim that ovbiously and clearly contradicts another, it's reasonable to assume that they are probably all legit for now.

A lot hinges on what Implosion claims, or flips if he refuses to. BG + Watcher is a sensible combination, Even vig + odd JK is a sensible combination, throw in another low to mid strength town PR and a maf PR, perhaps the day role cop like you said, along with the encyptor and yeah that's a reasonable setup. Swingy, but reasonable.

[Neruz]

Ah, that'll do it.

Yeah i don't know why you were hiding that with a claimed bodyguard and watcher implosion. I really don't.

[Neruz]

Also holy shit that is way too much town power, i'll bet my hat that there's scum in one of our PR's.

[Neruz]

Yeah, even jailkeep, odd vig, watcher, bodyguard and innocent child is too much.

Note that someone might not be lying about their

role

, just their alignment. Watcher or Even Jailkeeper could be scum roles, actually the Even Jailkeeper, in light of the Odd Vig, would be a fiendishly cunning scum role which given it's GreyICE is right up his alley.

[Neruz]

Scum bodyguard with a vig and SK would make sense, not so much with just an odd vig, so i'm inclined to believe that claim for now. I doubt we have an SK both due to not enough kills and too many PR claims; SK's usually don't want to claim a PR other than Vig, too much attention.

I agree, it's not enough to lynch on alone, but i think it's enough to warrent a second look at EB at the very least.

[Neruz]

Actually natch that, normal bodyguard for scum would be stupid since the person who nightkilled would know who they targeted and thus get two scum with one kill. EB could make sense, but a normal protecting role like Doc or Jailkeeper would make more sense.

So yeah, ponies claim, assuming it's true, is town.

[Neruz]

Just something quick i noticed while skimming:

Uh, If they shoot the watcher and you die does the watcher see who they shot?

They should since they end up targeting me instead of the watcher. Its basically a redirect.

They don't, GreyICE posted his rules a couple of pages ago and it specifically states in those rules that the bodyguard's ability does

not

function as a redirect. So GreyICE is resolving it as a Protect + Suicide.

[Neruz]

I'm starting to question my town read on Banshee; her last round of posts seem less like stubborn town and more like scum trying to look like stubborn town to persue a mislynch.

Also, seriously, anyone who doesn't see how Thomith is incredibly scummy clearly hasn't been reading his posts, like, at all. Speaking of which, i think i forgot to vote him.

VOTE: Thomith

[Neruz]

You can't target yourself stupid.

[Neruz]

Thomith is

so

scum.

[Neruz]

Only a scum rolecop would know I'm actually a bean in a fez.

It's ovbiously a mexican jumping bean.

[Neruz]

Déjà vu

[Neruz]

As far as i am aware that's normal Llama.

[Neruz]

Neruz is people!

Don't really have much to add, i guess i could be WV scum, but i really can't see Thomith not being scum, stupid scum, but scum.

[Neruz]

Why aren't we lynching WV?

Because Thomith is scuuuum.

[Neruz]

It's kind of depressing that the main reason people think i'm town is because i screwed up a bunch of times :X

[Neruz]

Eh, i'll be honest, i wasn't really paying a whole lot of attention to the game.

[Neruz]

Flail some more scumith.

[Neruz]

Wait, havn't you been fighting against the Thomith wagon, why would you just suddenly jump on it?

[Neruz]

Not really, i stopped paying attention to you awhile back when i decided you were probably a VI.

[Neruz]

Yes, i am defending Thomith, that is why i've been sitting on him for the entire day, because i

don't

want him to be lynched.

If you're wondering what led me to the conclusion that you're an idiot, it's posts like that.

[Neruz]

Fair enough, but then why suddenly start paying attention and complaining the second I put a vote on the person you WANT to be lynched?

I vaguely recalled that you had been fighting the Thomith lynch the last time i payed attention, so i was mildly surprised that you were now voting him. I wouldn't say i was complaining, i just didn't expect you to turn around like that since from what i could recall you were pretty adamant that Thomith was too ovbiously stupid town to be scum or something.

The only overreaction i'm seeing here is from you, you've exploded all over the place because i found it odd that you were voting someone i thought you had already said you felt was town and in the post where you made said vote you didn't provide any reasoning beyond "Thomith is at L-3". I'm seriously starting to question my VI read on you, your reaction to me doesn't look like a VI at all, it looks like seriously paranoid scum jumping six feet into the air because the quiet person in the corner she'd forgotten about suddenly wandered over and asked what she's doing.

But, you know, feel free to keep on going with the whole outraged exaggeration thing you've got there, i like it when scum hunt themselves, saves me time and effort.

[Neruz]

It's kind of funny how close Banshee comes to being right before she falls over at the last hurdle. Apparently she lives in a world where everyone is always 100% interested in every mafia game at all times and no-one ever forgets anything, sounds like a fun place, wish i lived there.

This game is incredibly slow, it's accumulated 68 pages in less than 2 days, of which i'd be willing to bet about 25 are discardable chaff. The wagons aren't going anywhere and for the last few pages i've been treated to some ovbious analysis revealing to us the amazing information that we shouldn't lynch a PR claim just yet (not shit really?) some people waffling on about Llama and not really getting anywhere, some people waffling on EB and getting nowhere even faster than on Llama, then a brief moment on Rainbow, once again no progress made and some role speculation as well as some minor setup analysis covering points that i'm pretty sure were also already made.

I mean, good god, reading this game is like trying to wade through treacle.

[Neruz]

EBWODP: Oh christ EB's at it again.

[Neruz]

EBWOTP: Also will people stop giving lists of who they'd be willing to lynch? It's not contributing anything useful guys, it's just more mindless fluff, if you want to prod dodge then just fucking prod dodge, don't try and stuff the thread full of cotton balls.

[Neruz]

All this undesreved praise from Llama is making me feel warm and fuzzy.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: Before i go to bed, Llama, as a piece of information for you for any future games we are in where i am actually scum for a change, i will

never

kill someone who is gunning for me and trying to get me lynched if there is any other possible option.

Waaaay

too risky. If he's making legitimate points as to why i look scummy then killing him will only cause the other town members to notice those points as they reread his posts to look for connections to explain the night kill, if he's not making legitimate points then killing him will only draw attention to me anyway. Seriously, bad idea right there, much safer to kill someone else who has no real interaction with anyone, or, better yet, kill someone who has strong negative reactions to another townie and watch the town tear itself apart.

For someone who you apparently think is sufficienty competant at mafia to not make errors or suffer lapses in attention in a boring game, you seem to think that my scum game is transparently one-dimensional. Can't really blame you though since no-one here has ever seen my scum game.

[Neruz]

All this undesreved praise from Llama is making me feel warm and fuzzy.

It's only praise if you're scum. You realise that, yeah?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Neruz

And just like that you're back on the VI wagon.

Seriously, you get all upset about me 'calling you names' and then you go and make posts like this. I'm not sure if you lack language comprehension or just operate on an alien set of logic but whatever it is it bears no resemblance whatsoever to any known form of reason.

[Neruz]

hmm, Banshee's trying too hard to be scum, assuming our scum are smart, which is probably a valid assumption given they managed to ident Beck as a PR worth shooting, they're probably trying to avoid my wagon. Implosion's vote looks pretty terrible, but even i have difficulty with the idea that scum would wilingly place the fourth vote on a wagon with the reasoning "lets see what happens".

Dunno, logic suggests that scum can probably be found in the less active players, Hiphop, wv, Ellibereth, but gut says something is very wrong with Banshee's reactions over the last couple of pages. I dunno, might just be the fact that she's picked up on the easy lynch so hard and so suddenly.

pedit:
And now EB is defending me. That's new.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: Also Banshee, the reason #1701 confirms that you do not understand how the english language functions is because Llama is voting me because he feels that i am a better player than this as town. This is a compliment about my abilities as town, and also an implied criticism of my abilities as scum. I can't really blame him because he only has games i was interested in to go on, so my behaviour this game does look substantially different from my usual behaviour, but unfortunately as it appears everyone is about to find out, this isn't my scum game and hopefully never will be because it would be a terrible scum game.

Seriously, if i cared i could explode all over Banshee right now and throw up such a shitstorm that everyone except her would back down and leave me alone for the next day at least. Banshee would then end up looking like the crazy old lady and lose most of her town cred, making it easy to lynch her at a later date (how easy would depend on how frustrated she gets). Under normal circumstances i'd do that as town after carefully making myself look like an easy lynch and then waiting for scum to bite, but i just can't conjure up the necessary energy.

pedit: Right, yeah, innocent child. That explains the terrible vote; like me Implosion just doesn't care.

[Neruz]

I started this lynch, thank you very much. How did I "pick up on the easy lynch"? I built and pushed this wagon all by my lonesome. Check it out, I really did. So stop mischaracterising what happened; it's the same thing Thomith keeps doing and it's REALLY scummy.

Please. I do in fact encourage everyone to go check out my ISO and look at how easy it would be to build a case on me.

[Neruz]

That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Pretty much entirely, i'm reading and responding to immediate posts around the ones i make but i keep forgetting the actual game state in relation to roles and stuff.

[Neruz]

You've claimed vanilla townie. You are paying no attention at all to this game as has been evidenced over and over and over and over again.

Why, if you're so much better than the rest of us, are you playing so HORRIBLY scummy that you believe you've made it amazingly easy for ANYONE, including a VI, to make a convincing case on you?

How is that pro-town or useful in ANY WAY?

Wow ok you actually just don't understand basic mafia theory. Huh, that explains a lot actually.


My standard VT play is to make myself look like an easy lynch, but not a scummy one. The reasoning for this is very simple: Town doesn't go after easy lynches, only scum do. Town goes after scummy lynches; people who look like they're scum. Scum, on the other hand, goes after

anyone they think they can get lynched.

The core of the scum game is opportunism, it is the one single scumtell that is consistant across all forms of Mafia. Scum are opportunistic, they

must

be opportunistic in order to win the game, without opportunism it is literally impossible for scum to progress towards their win condition, even better, Town are

never

opportunistic, town have absolutely no reason to be opportunistic and nothing to gain. Therefore opportunisim is a perfect scumtell and evidence of it is almost exclusively limited to scum and the occasional VI, who is fine to lynch anyway.

I make myself look like an easy lynch because it's easier to defend myself than it is to defend others; i know my own thought processes and the reasons behind those processes and thus can provide solid explanations for my actions throughout the game. That's not to say i only look for opportunistic votes on myself, i keep an eye out for any sort of opportunism (which is why your vote on Thomith drew some attention) but opportunism on myself is doubly potent because i also know that i am town, extra ammunition.

The other huge advantage of this is that i don't draw any scum attention until i spring the trap; up until then it is in scum's best interests to keep me alive because they figure that if all else fails they can always get an easy lynch on me, which means it's a good idea to keep me around. Ideally this means i land a scum lynch and then are promptly night killed by the scum basically going "What the shit just happened fuck kill it before it ruins everything!" and that has basically been what has happened in every game i've played in so far.

Now, all of this hinges on being able to provide reasonable explanation for my earlier actions, unfortunately i can't really do that in this game because the explanation for my earlier actions is that i was trickded by GreyICE and then started to lose interest in the game when it began to drag on indefinitely. While this is technically a reasonable explanation, it's not a useful one nor an easily provable one; the only way i have to provide evidence to support that explanation involves copious WIFOM and thus isn't worth the effort involved.

There we go, there's my sane and reasonable explanation post, now back to grunting insults and trying to get enough care into my cup to do a proper counterpoint.

[Neruz]

GreyICE made a big deal about how he'd tricked PZ into letting it slide, my error wasn't in understanding basic mafia theory, my error was in believing GreyICE who is a notorious liar.

[Neruz]

Yes, i know Llama, you've made that same point at least three times in different ways now. All i can really say is that you're overestimating me.

[Neruz]

I forget, why are we just letting Ellibereth run around making posts like 1744 without any scrutiny?

[Neruz]

You claim that you no longer care anything about this game and that you're not paying attention because the mod lied to you and got you into the game under false pretences.

No i don't. I claim that i'm not 100% invested in the game and that i'm not paying complete and total attention to the game. In both cases it is not because of GreyICE being a sneaky snake, but because the pace of the game is unbearably slow.

So, once again you are completely and utterly wrong in every concievable way, i'm pretty sure you currently have a perfect record in that!

[Neruz]

It's interesting that you equate a lapse of memory to total ignorance. You have a very strange and absolute view of the world.

Also, if you're reducing to accusing me of

whining

then you're

really

scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Neruz]

they're probably trying to avoid my wagon.

even if the scum are smart wouldn't you think at least one would be on your wagon if you are town?

I don't think so, too much uncertainty surrounding my lynch. If there was a rip-roaring wagon on me barreling towards a lynch then i'd absolutely expect there to be a scum or two on it, but the votes on me have sort of waffled on and then waffled off as everyone has run around going "Neruz is scum! No wait, that's silly. But wait, look here, scum! No, hang on, i take that back." Smart scum usually try to avoid wavering wagons because in order to join such a wagon without drawing attention you need to provide some good solid reasoning and that's very risky.

is to make myself look like an easy lynch,

what do you mean by "easy lynch" i know what i think you mean but i want to know what you think you mean.

An easy lynch is any townie who looks sufficiently anti-town that a reasonable case can be made on them by scum with a high expectation of getting a wagon going towards a lynch.

[Neruz]

1) surely using the same WIFOMY reasons you just stated you could say smart scum would know what is expected of them and so will do the opposite

It's a matter of risk vs reward. The risk in joining a wavering uncertain wagon with several outspoken opponents to said wagon is high, the reward is quite low, as i'm just a townie. It's a much safer and better play to either persue other interests or join in with the people who say i'm town, as should a lynch go through you get town credit for opposing the wagon, especially as after the fact the lynch will probably look pretty bad due to the conflict surrounding it.

Scum have a lot more to lose than town, good scum don't take risks unless they have to (of course, when they have to then they take some really outrageous risks. In for a penny, in for a pound.)

2) for example the three CL thing was you trying to draw people looking for an easy lynch to you?

No the cult thing was me believing GreyICE when i should have known better.

[Neruz]

I have the strangest feeling of déjà vu.

[Neruz]

I suppose i could buy a hiphop lynch but i'd still prefer to lync Thomith for ovbious reasons.

[Neruz]

Oh fine lets lynch hiphop already. Jesus.

VOTE: hiphop

[Neruz]

All i can really say is that if hiphop doesn't flip scum and i survive to tomorrow i am going to be very disappointed with some of you. Especially the ponies.

[Neruz]

Interesting, who'd you jailkeep EB?

[Neruz]

I sincerely doubt scum would no kill; no killing at this point with 2 scum down is a

really

bad play. So either Llama is our scum or our scum tried to kill Llama.

I'm not really sure i buy Llama scum tbh.

[Neruz]

Actually after some more thought, Llama

did

push the hiphop lynch pretty damn hard and also announced that he was going to push a WV lynch if hiphop flipped scum. I could absolutely see scum wanting to take Llama out of the picture because he was fairly instrumental in the hiphop lynch, i'd much rather lynch WV than Llama right now in light of the current situation.

[Neruz]

Considering that both lynches have nailed scum, were i scum i would want to ensure town get as few lynches as possible.

[Neruz]

There's no way in hell scum would try to kill you because

there are two claimed protection roles in play

.

[Neruz]

Exactly, so why would they try and kill you? It's not actually

possible

to kill you.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: To clarify, there's no point in killing either you or RD at this juncture. Killing you will just kill RD instead and the scum don't really gain a whole lot from killing RD as rolewise she is pretty much guaranteed to target you every night, they don't have any reason to try and kill you yet because it's not even remotely close to lylo. While scum definitely don't want you alive going into lylo, having you alive right now isn't a disadvantage at all, doubly so because you're riding on your confirmed-townness and not really contributing a whole lot, making you a fairly low threat target.

EB is a more likely target and is the ovbious choice, but he's not very strong; he can only interfere with the scum every second night (and to be honest i don't think the possibility of EB scum should be

completely

discounted). As EB already claimed that he was planning on using his jailkeep offensively rather than defensively the scum run pretty much the same amount of risk not killing him as they do killing him, since if he jailkeeps the scum then they're roleblocked so it doesn't matter who they targeted, and if EB is jailkeeping his scumreads all scum need to do is look somewhere else.

Does all of this mean that Llama is town? Absolutely not, but he's nothing like as 'confirmed' scum as you all seem to think. There are legitimate reasons why the scum might have chosen to kill him, there are also legitimate reasons why he might be scum. Personally i feel that right now Llama is not our best lynch choice and would instead look to the people that Llama was a clear threat too; namely WV.

[Neruz]

Yeah, i'm going to go with the 'lynch WV then marble if WV isn't scum' plan.

VOTE: weirdvoigts

[Neruz]

When Llama flips town, you're next wv.

[Neruz]

VOTE: wierdvoigts

It

does

seem like awhile since Elli said anything.

[Neruz]

This is a mini, so i'd expect 3 scum. 4/9 is a bit high, 3/1/9 would make more sense, but there hasn't been any evidence of a third party, so it's probably 3/10.

[Neruz]

It's also possible the SK has been interefered with each night, either by targeting the same person that the jailkeeper did, getting jailed himself or the same person as the mafia killed.

Note that i'm not saying this is

likely

, but i have been in games where the presence of a serial killer was masked for the first 4 nights because of other role actions. I'd be more inclined to assume a 3/10 lineup, especially with 2 scum PR's, one of which clearly designed to be an 'ovbtown' claim given the setup.

[Neruz]

There's another common denominator in that vote count wv. (Hint: It's you.)

[Neruz]

There's only 2 votes on wv, voting him would put him to L-1

[Neruz]

It's interesting that 5 of the 6 listed vote counts where wv shows up, he's right at the end of the wagon, very scummy voting there.

[Neruz]

Also in relation to killing and roleblocking, i'm not sure if GreyICE does it since it doesn't seem to be in his ruleset, but it's not uncommon for a mafia roleblocker (or other role with action) to be able to both submit a kill and action, but only if they are the last mafia standing.

[Neruz]

Sort of, Elli flailed in, failed to contribute or commit to anything and then flailed away under the guise of... laziniess i think.

Honestly if wv doesn't flip scum, Elli's looking pretty good for a scum choice because he looks a lot like he's trying to coast to the end game.

[Neruz]

Who's the other clear?

[Neruz]

Oh right yeah i see what you mean, i was just trying to work out how you had 2 clears if EB was dead, but Banshee would then be clear due to being blocked.

[Neruz]

implosion was unprotected so scum could have killed him for a 100% clear dead, so yes they had a good reason to kill.

Would have just cleared banshee though. Given Implosions pathetic input to the game so far, having him clear isn't a big deal, i'd take a clear implosion over a clear banshee any day of the week.

[Neruz]

Which is why it is not unreasonable to assume that scum nokilled.

[Neruz]

No, i don't know where you got that from. If i had to choose someone to lynch i'd probably pick you over anyone else.

[Neruz]

Honestly i really don't think Thomith is scum, the problem is that wv was the last strong read i had. I'm drawing a huge blank on both Elli and Banshee and i'm pretty sure that EB is town based on role. I can point to a whole list of scummy things Thomith has done in this game, but he looks

way

more like a VI than scum. If he is scum then that is seriously the best act i have ever freaking seen.

[Neruz]

Yes, i did.

After some consideration, i think Ellibereth is our best lynch choice. We have one more free lynch and Ellibereth has done a reasonably good job of active lurking so far in this game. I find it difficult to believe that if Banshee or Thomith were genuinely scum that they wouldn't have any significant radar pings right now, but Elli has been lurking enough and avoiding interacting with other players sufficiently that there's very little to go on with him.

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Neruz]

Elli's ISO is an excellent example of how to active lurk. It's impossible to get any strong reads on him at all based on his posts because he just hasn't posted anything of significant value and i just cannot in good conscience let someone who's active lurked as hard as Elli make it to lylo.

[Neruz]

No i don't, that's why i called his ISO an excellent example of how to active lurk.[/sarcasm]

[Neruz]

Thomith is an idiot and annoying, that's why it's not blatantly obvious that you've been active lurking.

[Neruz]

Me? I've modded a mini normal and are currently modding a lareg normal. Why?

[Neruz]

Pedit: The thing with daytalk is on a good scumteam, daytalk is

incredibly

powerful. But on a bad scumteam not only is it pointless but it can actually make the scum

more

ovbious.

Daytalk is basically a power multiplier; it makes the good scum better, the bad scum worse and does very little to average scum.

[Neruz]

because the cult thing would be really wierd for someone who
1) knows how to balance shit, and 2) has been through review process.

*Shrug* GreyICE sent me this awesome PM about how he'd snuck all this shit in under the reviewers nose, for some inexplicable reason i took him seriously despite having no reason to and really knowing better. It was a brain fart, pure and simple.

[Neruz]

Was what in?

[Neruz]

You're way overthinking this Banshee; GreyICE sent me a PM about how he had this awesome absurd setup which had been rejected over 11 times with three cult recruiters in it that he'd finally managed to get by the review committee by virtue of bribery and sneakery. I asked him how the hell he got it past the review board and he responded by saying PZ really likes bunnies and when he finds bunnies in his house you can get all kinds of things past him.

In hindsight it was blatantly obvious he was kidding around, but for some inexplicable reason i thought he was serious, i also assumed that the cult stuff would be in the rules and everyone else would be aware of it. I put no more thought into it than that.

If i'd stopped to think about the actual considerations of three cult recruiters in one game and all that jazz i'd have realised that it was all joking nonsense, the entire point is that at no point did i stop to think.

[Neruz]

Thomith, can you link to what you think your *best* town and scum games are?
At this point I think this game is in the realm of super-meta reliant for me.

I havn't been scum in any MS games so far. Feel free to look at my other games though if you feel it will help.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15198
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15547
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15590
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15982
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=16356
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17903


Banshee, i didn't bother to read the rules post. 99% of games all have the same rules posts and there were no unique game-wide rules mentioned in the PM, so i saw no reason to read it.

How do you reconcile your superior and condescending attitude throughout the first part of the game with your admission that you didn't think at all in this case? Doesn't that seem like pretty serious cognitive dissonance of some sort? Was the condescension more or less an act to catch scum?

I reconcile it by being a gigantic hypocrite.

[Neruz]

+1 reading comprehension for me, post was directed at thomith. Should not post at 3 in the morning, going to sleep now.

[Neruz]

other note: what do people (including neruz) make of neruz's two RVS votes both being on scum?

I'm just

that

good.

[Neruz]

If you mean right at the start of the day when i voted Thomith and fossed Voided, i figured at least one (if not both) were scum because they both massively overreacted to the votes being thrown around in RVS; it looked

exactly

like paranoid scum flailing wildly because he's afraid he's been 'caught'.

Amusingly, as it turned out i was exactly right.

[Neruz]

I still cannot think of any reason why a town player would willingly hammer a town read unless there was literally no other option, but if that is the case then you are already aware that one of your town reads is wrong, so that particular logic no longer applies.

[Neruz]

Tell me one thing. If I commit to an Elli lynch and Elli flips town and I die tonight. Who will you lynch tomorrow? Cuz I can't support this if Banshee won't die but at the same time leaving Thomith and Neruz to endgame is just... ugh. If we lynch Banshee today and then you guys commit to an Elli lynch tomorrow, I'll be happier.

Probably Banshee. I'd

really

like to lynch Thomith, but i just can't see him actually being scum.