Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[deselby]

2 hours in and I am already confused.

vote: beck

, cos i didn't get to vote for you in our last game...

[deselby]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.


Rainbow- why are you so certain of the absence of third parties?
Also, are you very attached to using “pony” in place of “person”? It makes the posts slightly less pleasant to read.IMO.

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.

Those are the four possible motivations I can think of.

As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

This is poor logic, no? Without assigning some kind of probabilities to the listed options, your conclusion is invalid. Having said that:

This seems like a blatant use of my scumplay in newbie 1126 by buddying to thomas. As scum i buddy not defend. Just saying.

I don't like this post. Especially as since then you have taken issue with hiphop using meta.

unvote
vote thomith L-2

[deselby]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.

I have. It appears that not everyone was willing to accept my explanation, but its there. The simple reality is it was two dozen posts into the game in RVS before everyone had checked in yet and one player reacted in a mildly scummy way to some pressure imposed by another player. I wasn't gunning for a lynch and there was no need to apply more pressure on Thomith because ample pressure was already being applied.

I'm not sure why these basic concepts seem so hard for some people to grasp, but apparently they are.

Fair enough, but you didn't actually explain it that way in the post you quote here.

How can i defend against meta other than using meta? There is no other way i can see, if i say "you are scum because of (meta reason)" you cannot defend yourself with play in THIS game because you are being labelled scum for annother different game.

You did not use meta to defend against meta. Your "meta" post was before hiphop's "meta" post.

[deselby]

he was blatantly using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

Ok, but this is not clear, to me at least, by reading hiphops posts.

Hiphop - is this true?

[deselby]

Fair enough, but you didn't actually explain it that way in the post you quote here.

If you'd stopped to think about the post for half a second instead of just mindlessly sheeping someone else's argument, you'd have realised all of what i just said because it's the most blatantly obvious play in the history of mafia.

Mafia is a game of wits deselby, how about you start using yours?

Mafia is also a game of posts, it's better if the post's say things rather than imply them.

[deselby]

him attacking me he said something like "he is defending town because he knows neruz's allignment to get town points" which i did in the game he modded so he was blatantly using that game against me.

he was

blatantly

using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

Hiphop - is this true?

Absolutely not. He is clearly strawmanning. I have named countless examples of why he is scum. Every single posts seems to bleed scumminess.

So, either there is a serious misunderstanding here, or one of you is lying.

Thom- as beck alluded to, why are you certain that hiphops attack is based on a previous game, when this kind of attack is common?

Hiphop - Are you saying that the game thom referred to has no bearing on your attack on him?

[deselby]

Also the second post that you quoted is buddying to an extreme.

how?

[deselby]

I have no idea what you two are talking about, but you're both taking it far too seriously for RVS.

I "claimed scum" at post 10 is what we are talking about.

I'll be honest Thomith, you've scored a few scum points in that little alitercation.

VOTE: hiphop for having a name that is similar to hiplop.

What?!

Where the fuck did i say i thought Thomith was claiming scum.

Note that thom's post above was the only post of note between yours, so it kind of implies the claim thing. Anyway, later you say that your suspicion was due to "overreaction". I can't see any overreaction, but even if there was I tbink it would be an even better reason to actually vote for thom.
Also, bringing up the cult stuff. It seems unlikely to me that neruz would fall for a joke like that (he has been around a while)...perhaps it was scum muddying waters, considering he used it to assert the possiblilty that 2 other players under suspicion at the time were cult leaders (voided and thom). Not strong evidence by any means, but just a bit weird.

Anyway, enough for a FOS, and as thom claims he is at L-1 and I am too lazy to check and am going to bed, for now:

unvote
FOS neruz, thomith

vote count please mod!

[deselby]

Thom, you and neruz both have scum points, but I wont return my vote for now. Lynching now, especially before parama, sleuth or cloud have really even said anything is probably bad.
If there was a deadline looming I would however, though I am leaning neruz out of the two of you, in part for his defensive/insulting play. I realise it may just be his style, or that he is easily exasperated, but it is not pro-town as far as I can see. Saying “you are an idiot for not understanding my posts”, might be what he is thinking, but it is not hard to see a scum motivation for doing this ie “It is not my posts that are bad, it is you, idiot!”. If this is true most of the time, then sometimes it is not true. Even if it is true every time he says it, well it is still not helpful: Neruz, if you consider yourself average intelligence/skill at mafia, then on average 6 players in this game are stupider than you and most of them are townies……..

Like I said, it could easily just be a style thing, and he really believes his posts are 100% clear, but it just seems a bit much to me.

[deselby]

Anyway, elsewhere for now.
Rainbow, you have said one of neruz and hiphop are probably scum. Why is this? why can't both be scum for instance? Also, while EB's posts have been pretty good, there haven't been many of them, it seems that labelling eb town now is premature.

hiphop, do you have any decent reads oither than thom and vm? Also see this post from earlier:

Also the second post that you quoted is buddying to an extreme.

how?

[deselby]

I am starting to lean more town on Thomith, His play is odd to me, but in a kind of consistent way, if that makes sense. This includes his vote/unvote of hiphop, it makes sense in thomith world. As has been mentioned, his refusal to vote hiphop makes him not look scum, could be WIFOM of course but it would have been very tempting indeed as scum to vote hiphop.

Sleuth:

Anyway, I'm fairly annoyed that Beck and Thomith are calling my vote an omgus. Maybe we should concern ourselves more with accuracy than painting. Correct me if I was wrong in my previous post, but I understood myself to be Thomith's #1 suspect. As a lurker. On day one. After 250+ posts (only one of which was mine).

That is scum trying to find an easy target. Calling it so is not an omgus.

As above, thoom had an easy target in hiphop, and didn’t go for that one. Do you agree? have you read the thread yet? Any other thoughts, reads?


Rainbow, at the risk of being accused of sour grapes ☺, I am not sure I am up for the alignment thing. It seems to me that unless you are very confident of your reads, it is a bad idea. IMO it seems that scum who look town would be really keen to join, whereas townies would need a really strong town read on you and other members. Maybe I think this way because I lack confidence in my tells (I am rather inexperienced at mafia), but is this something you do often?

Also:

Deselby (?) - If hiphop is scum he is in, if not he joins deathlist

Why and Why?

[deselby]

my experience on another site, it is almost always common that scum has day talk. As for this site I have 3 completed games, 1 of which scum had day talk.

maybe coached was the wrong wording, his responses in that post seemed odd, like he was so easily persuaded or something.

When you first mentioned this I mis-read it as you thinking it was in-thread "coaching". But if you assumed scum day-talk? In the post (162) you didn't even say something along the lines of "maybe there is daytalk and....", as if you were not in any doubt. Seems to me a chance that this is a slip.
Can you give us the name of the other site to check that there is usually scum day talk?

[deselby]

is it me or is Voided's response to rainbow's posts look like he has just been coached? - http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3343099

How? The only way this can happen is if mafia have day talk. Every single game I have ever played on this site, besides one theme game, mafia did not have day talk. I looked it up in the rules, and there is no mention as to whether or not mafia have day talk. And it is a standard that mafia

do not

have day talk. Either A you must have played in a lot of games where mafia had day talk, or B you are scum that knows scum have day talk. Which is it?

Still reading.

my experience on another site, it is almost always common that scum has day talk. As for this site I have 3 completed games, 1 of which scum had day talk.

I don't even know why he threw that out there in the first place cause I never mentioned scumtalk. when I posted that comment,

scum talking wasnt even on my mind.

But your initial defence was based on you having experience with scum day talk, as if that's what you were thinking/assuming.

[deselby]

Where?

If you mean hiphops post that neruz think is town, i believe it is the one I quoted in my last post

[deselby]

When I posted the "coaching" comment I wasn't thinking about scum talk.

my experience on another site, it is almost always common that scum has day talk. As for this site I have 3 completed games, 1 of which scum had day talk.

My point is if you weren’t even thinking daytalk, why did your initial response to hiphops coaching post imply you always assume daytalk?

Rainbow, firstly afaik, dirty work refers to dull/unpleasant tasks that are still actually useful.

He is attacking the alliance because it might have scum in it, while the only pony in the alliance he really has any issue with appear to be EB whos "posts have been pretty good" and maybe Neruz? This appears to be more of an attempt to stop the alliance from actually forming then having a concrete reason that he distrusts the members of it.

It seems to me that joining an alliance, and certainly starting one, of this kind would require one to be very sure of one's reads, or to be scum. Maybe you all are this confident, I am not. You said yourself I may have doubts about EB and neruz- regardless of my thoughts on these 2, would you recommend joining your alliance if one doubted 40% of its members, even if only a little?
I have not seen such a thing in my short time playing mafia, and my question to you (unanswered) asked if this is something you take part in regularly. If so, how successful have they been?

Deselby ............. and is attacking my "one of two" posts in an odd way but essentially is trying to stop me from being able to call certain ponies town in light of others flipping scum, which I dislike quite a bit.

Why on earth would my questions to you about this prevent you from calling anyone anything? I was asking for your reasons for stating "X is Y if A is B" so I could understand them. If they make sense, you surely can make these calls without my interference.

I feel that your problems with me seem to be mostly that I am questioning your play.

[deselby]

Rainbow - was thinking and I can see a point that maybe you were making: IF I was scum and IF I was not "invited" to join your alliance, and IF everyone in it were town, I would definitely want to prevent it from forming. But I would still like an aswer to my q's.

[deselby]

EBWOP

I feel that your problems with me seem to be mostly that I am questioning your play.

So I largely rescind this comment