Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[weirdvoigts]

GreyICE, I just want to tell you that the flavor is

great

.
~~
VOTE: Neruz
OK, if Tomith is scummy, then why did you place another random vote?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Woah, didn't read the post above mine until right now. Lol.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

We're a hydra of bvoigt and weirdalexv, in case anyone didn't notice the sig.

I agree with Alex and implosion.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

That makes no sense.

Even if it's just a few scumpoints, he's still scummier than everyone else, right? Why wouldn't you be voting the most scummy player?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

@Tomith: Would you explain town motivation for not voting their top suspect, even with only a small suspicion?

[weirdvoigts]

Lolyup, that's a great idea!

Instead of voting the only person who we actually think is scum, we're going to vote somebody completely randomly for no reason instead of him just because there isn't a full case on him.
~~
On a side note, Rainbowdash, it's really annoying when you refer to everybody as ponies.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

So town should vote someone who they don't have many points on. K.

It's better than voting someone they don't have any points on.

[weirdvoigts]

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Tomith, do you have any scumgames on-site? If so, can you post links to them? I want to check your strategies.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

so you are honestly saying that scum is the only one who defends somebody?

I have been on MS much less than you and have already seen examples of this not being true, am I skeptical of people who do it? absolutely but it doesn't make them guaranteed scum either.

We're not talking in absolutes here; we're talking about this specific case of Thomith defending Neruz. And I agree with hiphop...it makes little sense that he's defending Neruz here against a legitimate point for this stage in the game.

UNVOTE: Neruz
VOTE: Thomith

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Eh, I'm fine with that vote. Tomith is plenty scummy too.

@Thomith, as you never answered this, could you give me at least one way that it helps town to not vote their top suspect (other than pressure, which Neruz's vote was not)?

I'll have to look through Thomith's ISOs in those games later (too lazy now and have to leave in 30 minutes) to see what his scum strategies are and to see if he would blatantly stick his neck out from the popular choice to defend somebody.

~Wierdalexv

To expand a bit, I don't know exactly what Thomith was trying to do by defending Neruz, but the mostly likely explanation IMO is that he was just trying to fake a town reaction and "overcompensated."

As scum i buddy not defend. Just saying.

Also, if you really rely on buddying so extensively, without employing other strategies, you aren't just going to say this kind of information casually.

[weirdvoigts]

Second part was bvoigt.

[weirdvoigts]

How do we disagree? Bvoigt and I both think that Thomith and Neruz is scummy, all we disagree on is who is more scummy (although I'm liking the Thomith wagon more and more).

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.

Those are the four possible motivations I can think of. As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

Let me ask you something. You have the following reads.
Player 1 - Leaning Town
Player 2 - Null
Player 3 - Null
Player 4 - Nullish town
Player 5 - Mixed, slightly town
Player 7 - Town
Player 8 - Null
Player 9 - Null
Player 10 - Obvious Town
Player 11 - Null
Player 12 - Slightly scum
Who do you vote?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.
Those are the four possible motivations I can think of. As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

I think this post is ridiculously scummy but I'm not gonna do anything about it because there's a maximum 30% chance you're scum so you're probably town. Hmm I should just stop having reads actually. There's a pretty good chance that everyone is town.

This confuses me. Can you please just say what you mean without the sarcasm?

There are four possible motivations, WV, for you pushing a lynch on Thomith:
1. You are scum pushing a townie to get a mislynch.
2. You are scum pushing a buddy to get towncred from a bus.
3. You are scum tunneling on a townie so that you don't have to focus on too many other people.
4. You are town legitimately pushing on someone you think is scum.

Alex (hopefully) wasn't saying that, because there were 3 scum motivations and 1 town motivation, Thomith had a 75% percent chance of being scum. Rather, he was saying that I did consider both the town and scum motivations, and the scum motivations are more probable than the town ones.

hiphop and implosion look town so far.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

he was blatantly using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

Where?

omg hiphop implosion is defending me does that make us obvious scum buddies?

You know perfectly well that tells don't occur in a vacuum. There are some situations where a defense makes sense, and some where it doesn't. So this strikes me as a scummy argument.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Sorry for not posting much, I'm kind of losing interest in Mafia. Since I'm home all day with nothing to do though, I figured I'd post.

Thomith, Sleuth is your top scumread for lurking, but, as Beck said earlier, why were you waiting on Parama? Seems a little strange, like either appealing to a buddy or pretending to appeal to a buddy to set up a mislynch. I don't even see any town motivation for that, as he only posted once to say that he was catching up, and therefor you couldn't know/think he was town. Care to explain?

Rainbowdash is town because scum wouldn't draw that much attention to themselves, especially as Vote Blocs usually get NKed pretty quickly. Beck is town, some gut and some goodposting (great case on Thomith), Evil Bullet looks pretty town, although I'm not sure because they haven't posted much. Neruz is still fairly scummy. Don't really get the Hiphop case, would somebody explain? As for the VT softclaim, I can kind of see it, but it looks more like flailing scum.

Anything I missed that you want me to answer/talk about?
~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

When people first post ~10 Pages into a game, they need to catch up as they haven't read anything. His first post was explaining his absence, and his second post was before he was completely caught up.
~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

For the most part, I agree with Alex that Rainbowdash is town, but it strikes me as very odd that she noticed Thomith's "softclaim." It's the kind of thing that townies aren't looking for, but scum are. In this game, mikemike778, a Mafia Goon, was the only one who noticed a Mason softclaim, and he brought it up because he thought everyone else had seen it too.

Thing is in this example scum got powers if you died, in this game it doesn't seem like you do, in the example giving up sort of helped your faction but (as scum) in this game giving up hinders it.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Hiphop
Even you should know the difference between the example and the game.

hiphop when i flip town don't do what you are saying you are going to do by basically giving up. Keep posting as

I

think you are town

, but when i flip town rethink your reads, who is scummy after my flip, who seems town after my flip, think about those things and town can win, just giving up though lessens the towns thinking power unneeded by 1.

I truly believe these posts conflict with each other.

I agree. Thomith, are you saying here that you're voting a town read, or what?

@ weird - thoughts of hip

We agree that he looks fairly town. He's bringing up a lot of good points against Thomith, and seems sincere.

Alex (hopefully) wasn't saying that, because there were 3 scum motivations and 1 town motivation, Thomith had a 75% percent chance of being scum. Rather, he was saying that I did consider both the town and scum motivations, and the scum motivations are more probable than the town ones.

No way, there was 3 very different scum motivations. Which one did he consider more probable? He can't pick all 3.

Alex says he was probably trying to get towncred from a town flip. I would say that he just tried to make a sincere reaction and screwed up, since it's doubtful that a wagon so early in the day would actually lead to a lynch.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

I suspect Slueth not for lurking but when he posted he didn't post any content, parama has definately shot up my suspicion list too as he didn't post any content when he posted but it seems he had a reason where slueth doesn't seem to.

I found this post fairly scummy also, as he never mentioned this after Parama posts but conveniently does as soon as I mentioned it.
~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

I have been out of town for a family emergency. I apologize.

I do not like the fact that after 11 pages of content, I would be someone's number 1 suspect for lurking. You lynch lurkers day one when there is no better option. There must be better options at this point that someone who hasn't even been online.

For instance:
VOTE: thomith

Have you read the entire game?

@Thomith:

Thing is in this example scum got powers if you died, in this game it doesn't seem like you do, in the example giving up sort of helped your faction but (as scum) in this game giving up hinders it.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Hiphop
Even you should know the difference between the example and the game.

hiphop when i flip town don't do what you are saying you are going to do by basically giving up. Keep posting as

I

think you are town

, but when i flip town rethink your reads, who is scummy after my flip, who seems town after my flip, think about those things and town can win, just giving up though lessens the towns thinking power unneeded by 1.

I truly believe these posts conflict with each other.

I agree. Thomith, are you saying here that you're voting a town read, or what?

[weirdvoigts]

weird read the thread i already answered the question, i am not answering it again.

So why'd you vote him in the first place?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Actually, I see that was also answered. I guess I skipped Voided's entire wallpost. But it still doesn't make any sense that you would vote anyone "to prove them wrong" rather than because they were scum, even if it was only for a short time.

-bvoigt

(Ninja'ed.)

[weirdvoigts]

For the most part, I agree with Alex that Rainbowdash is town, but it strikes me as very odd that she noticed Thomith's "softclaim." It's the kind of thing that townies aren't looking for, but scum are. In this game, mikemike778, a Mafia Goon, was the only one who noticed a Mason softclaim, and he brought it up because he thought everyone else had seen it too.

I disagree with that completely.

In this game, town-[Low Key] named all 3 masons day 2, and scum didn't have a clue before then.

Mind posting a link to the specific post? I'm too lazy to read Low Key's entire ISO.

there are so few possibilites to go with Thomith well (outside of Beck, Parama, Ellibereth and VM who is there?)

Oh, is that all?

Evil Bullet's last post looks like pretty clear town. It's sincere scumhunting; I doubt scum would take the time to research something from RVS and then switch their vote because of it when the game was already in "full swing." Any questions I've missed?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Rainbow, I believe it is a Beck, Thomith, Voided. And on to the next game.

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

Trying to act like a VI? So you think he's doing it intentionally? If so, what's the town motivation for that?

You made it obvious

what you were trying to do, so i just ignored it. From the post where you decided not to add anything to the discussion it was obvious you were trying to get something out of me, so tbh

i didn't even bother thinking you were scum

from it as it seemed like a gambit. Looks like i was right.

I found it scummy

you wanted an excuse even though

i thought it was possible

it was a gambit, i found it weird that you were saying it.

Man....

[weirdvoigts]

You didn't think he was scum...you just found him scummy?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Rainbow, I believe it is a Beck, Thomith, Voided. And on to the next game.

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

Trying to act like a VI? So you think he's doing it intentionally? If so, what's the town motivation for that?

Please answer this. Also, who are your top scum reads and why?

And I've already said thom isn't a good lynch day 1

Sure, he is. Not only is he my strongest scumread, his flip will also be very informative.

Everyone should stop trying to use associative tells without a flip.

@Rainbowdash: Can you please give me a tl;dr version of the case on Voided?

[weirdvoigts]

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Thom's flip if he is scum teaches us what?

Thom's flip if he is town teaches us what?

I will tell you one thing thom's lynch will do regardless of his alignment

It will render the VCA essentially useless

For one thing, a scumflip from Thomith makes hiphop pretty clear town. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. But Thomith has been the focal point of this game so far, and some careful analysis could tell us a lot about several players.

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

Um...maybe the scum motivation is trying to avoid a lynch by being seen as a "bad" player rather than a "scummy" player?

[weirdvoigts]

@Rainbow: Why are you so sure that there's no SK or multiple scum teams?

About Voided: can you summarize your case? He's mostly a null read for both of us; however, I'd say he would make sense as a Thomith buddy if Thomith flips scum.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

But Thomith wasn't really in danger of being lynched at that point, IIRC. I mean, yeah, he had people gunning for him (Hiphop and EB come to mind), but Hiphop was the one near the chopping block (and I was starting to get that way).

Well, if he was trying to intentionally act like a VI, he'd have to do it all the time, because a change in playstyle as soon as he was close to being lynched would probably do more harm than good.

@WV - What is your joint viewpoint on Thomith? On hiphop? On deselby? Is Alex even posting anymore? See this why this hydra thing confuses me. There seems to be disagreement or both heads play off eachother and never listen to anypony else.

Alex was sick for a couple of days, and now we just got back from camping. I'll force him to read and post if he doesn't soon. We agree that Thomith is scum, and hiphop is fairly town. deselby is in need of a reread, for me at least.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

I read Voided's case, and it actually does make sense, but I still think hiphop is town.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

So...he's scum for questioning one point of the voting bloc? The part about him getting on it? If anything, that's a towntell because scum probably wouldn't want to question their spot on a voting bloc.

So that and not voting is it? Sounds more like playstyle then alignment.

As for our opinions, we went through his entire ISO without finding a single scumtell, and both agreed that his posts seem legit, particularly this one. So therefore we are both very anxious to hear your case on him, and I would also like to hear your case on us.
~Wierdalexv

Alex may write in an overly rhetorical way, but I agree with him. I really didn't find anything scummy when reading deselby in ISO. The other thing you brought up, Rainbowdash, was that he's "attacking your 'one of two' posts," but all I remember is that he asked for reasoning behind a couple of them.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Evil Bullet's #703 is fairly convincing. We (both) could go for the Voided wagon.

@weird You never answered my question, how will hiphop look when i flip town?

He'd probably be a null read if you flip town. He's certainly gunning for your lynch, but it's pretty common for one townie to tunnel on another one.

@Sleuth: Did this:

Sleuth and Neruz get a D2 pass if they sheep me within the next 24 hours.

have something to do with why you sheeped? Why is Rainbowdash a townread?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

I just want to say that I don't trust Rainbowdash leading the voting bloc. I don't have a scumread on her, but she's null and there are certainly more townish players on the bloc (Evil Bullet, for example). Plus, the 'you get free passes D2 if you sheep me' doesn't sound very good, as them sheeping does not make them town.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

This is a hydra of bvoigt and wierdalexv.

We're also willing to hammer.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Not liking the Neruz attempted hammer, but I'll talk to Bvoigt before we do anything with our vote. We should get to this in a couple hours.

[weirdvoigts]

Rainbowdash has no reason to lie about being a doublevoter if she's scum. It's an ability that can be confirmed true or false, so she knows she's going to get caught in a lie if she seriously claims it.

VOTE: Thomith
VOTE: Neruz

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Rainbowdash has no reason to lie about being a doublevoter if she's scum. It's an ability that can be confirmed true or false, so she knows she's going to get caught in a lie if she seriously claims it.

VOTE: Thomith
VOTE: Neruz

-bvoigt

for srs, WV? Or is the Thomith vote supposed to be an unvote?

Yes, it was.

[weirdvoigts]

I'm willing to hammer EB if he hasn't been already.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Anything we need to wait for?

[weirdvoigts]

VOTE: Evil Bullet ========[]

>_>

VOTE: Evil Bullet in case that didn't count.

P-EDIT: Oh. Fail.

[weirdvoigts]

Which head hammered and made that last post?

Or attempted to hammer I mean

Um, did you not notice that I posted it on the wrong account first?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Oh.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Are you scum?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Rainbowdash is claiming tomorrow and we go from there. Probably lynch her regardless, though.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Well, I was under the impression that EB had actually been hammered, but in retrospect, it should have been obvious he wasn't. I still think he's scum.

@GreyICE:

If I posted something like "Let's end this day. Vote: Thomith." but I'd already been voting him, how are you going to be able to tell if I was actually trying to fake a hammer or if I just messed up counting the votes?

I'd make an executive decision, based on this warning and that you know that my tolerance level is way, way down for that crap (and the fact my rules call out fake voting shenanigans already). That was a warning, don't see if you can earn another, and this goes for the entire thread.

[weirdvoigts]

Someone else needs to hammer. This is getting on my nerves.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

vote: rainbow

EB's claim is believable to me and his reaction to thinking he was hammered seems genuine.

Until she claims her role and ends the confusion SHE has caused to begin with, my vote stays.

Do you think he sincerely believed he was hammered? Did you think it was a lynch?

EBWOP: What do you mean,

town

"hammering" a town read is scummy? That's a pretty bad slip there.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Thomith

This is a good catch, but on the other hand Thomith's typing skills aren't that great.

I just want to remember this particular quote because I think it's another case of Thomith being a little too knowledgeable about someone's alignment.

Or me mistyping what i meant to say? or is there no chance of this ever happening?

But this seems like a twisting of words.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Sorry guys, I honestly did think that was a hammer.

I've thought Rainbowdash over, and changed my mind. Why would scum, who was a townread for many people, counterclaim a PR that would very likely be lynched anyways? It just doesn't make sense. Based off of EB's reaction to being hammered, I think he's town too, although now that I think about it, did he know that it was actually L-1 and just playing along? But I'm just rambling now. I still think he's pretty town though, the reaction seemed genuine.

Still think Neruz is scummy, still think Voided is scummy, still think Thomith is scummy. Thomith especially now, as I agree entirely with Bvoigt's post a little while back:

EBWOP: What do you mean,

town

"hammering" a town read is scummy? That's a pretty bad slip there.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Thomith

This is a good catch, but on the other hand Thomith's typing skills aren't that great.

I just want to remember this particular quote because I think it's another case of Thomith being a little too knowledgeable about someone's alignment.

Or me mistyping what i meant to say? or is there no chance of this ever happening?

But this seems like a twisting of words.

-bvoigt

I shouldn't really talk though, I usually have about 50 typos per post.

Banshee also seems pretty town for finding that slip of Thomith's. Seems like genuine motivation there.

Readlist:
TOWN
Evil Bullet
Rainbowdash
Banshee
Beck
hiphop
implosion

NULL
Ellibereth
Llamarble
Sleuth

SCUM
Voidedmafia
Thomith
Neruz

These are just my reads, although I think Bvoigt agrees with a lot of them.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

LOL NINJA'D on the first point.

[weirdvoigts]

Banshee also seems pretty town for finding that slip of Thomith's

You say you make typos but think i am scummy for making one?

Lol, you

are

twisting my words. I said that I agreed with Bvoigt that it might just be a typo. Still, it's worth at least noting.
~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

You said it was a slip, making it seem like you don't think it is a typo.

Meh, guess it could be interpreted that way.

[weirdvoigts]

You said it was a slip, making it seem like you don't think it is a typo.

Meh, guess it could be interpreted that way.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

But this seems like a twisting of words.

banshee said i know too much on others allignment because of a mistype, but it seems that banshee doesn't think anyone could ever mistype so if EB flips town i am conf scum.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Just because Banshee doesn't think you mistyped in that situation, doesn't mean that she has ever said, or implied, that no one could ever mistype. It seems like you're exaggerating what people say to make their position seem more extreme and unreasonable than it really is.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

I'm not sold 100% on EB not scum but we need to hear from rainbow

I was in a game with a 1 shot jk, 1 shot tracker, and an odd night tracker in a mini normal

The even night role was scum.

So sn even night role makes sense if there is an odd night role.

Now can both even/odd be town? Who knows

Can 1 be town, the other scum? Possible since I have seen it.

Other than that I don't have much, I think EBs play overall has sucked, if he knew he wasn't hammered, which clearly everyone did but me, than he goes back up my radar

We don't progress until rainbow claims so we ALL can decide if her and his role makes sense.

I don't trust her thought process

The regular way is that they are both town, but if Rainbowdash is an odd-night Jailkeeper, I will be really mad that she thought they couldn't both be in a game.

Thom, are you scum?

Now, what were you really trying to accomplish with this question?

Voided because i feel that the way people have been avoiding him lately is very weird and i dislike the way that he is seemingly getting ignored

EB because i still don't really see why town would hammer a town read as it basically gets rid of someone who they really doubt is scum, when you should want to lynch scum.

Slueth because he seems to never read the thread and sheeps the whole time without adding his own reasons to the discussions.

What happened to us? I thought we were your top scumread.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Very confident in my Neruz-town read at this point simply because I can't believe anypony but a VT pony would get caught up in the whole cult thing. As non-VT, it was obvious even without doing the necessary busy work to hunt down that information. I would assume as scum it would be just as obvious.

I would just like to point out that Cults are generally a 3rd-Party, not the Mafia Faction.

Here's a recent game that had a cult in it, it also had a mafia.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17650
There's also an ongoing game.
~~~~~~~~~~
Rainbowdash, could you show me your case on us? I'm pretty sure the bloc was voting us at some point, or did I dream that?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

So you got the

entire voting bloc

to vote us over a

gut read

?

Sometimes I really wish you weren't town so we could get a new leader for the voting bloc.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

So you got the

entire voting bloc

to vote us over a

gut read

?

You never got ran up. I just want ponies to watch you in the future since I am not going to be around forever.

Oh, nevermind then. I could have swore...

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

EBWOP

WV could be scum. I'll get there.

Explain please.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

I'm trying to see how strongly you feel the chance both roles are likely.

If we lynch him, you look extremely bad

so I'm trying to process this claim assuming you are town and scum

SCUM SLIP SCUM SLIP SCUM SLIP THIS GUY KNOWS I'M TOWN

XD

I'll wait for a response and talk to Bvoigt before doing anything with our vote yet.

[weirdvoigts]

You were untill this happened, and your actions lately have been quite pro-town except the typo thing.

What's been pro-town about our recent actions? It seems like your opinion is directly related to how much I've been on your case.

That is the second possible slip that indicates EB is town. I'm no longer confident in this (and also, it doesn't seem like their role and the role I suspect Rainbowdash has aren't really that implausible together).

UNVOTE: Evil Bullet
VOTE: Beck

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Also this BECK SLIPPED WHEE is bull even if Beck's scum.

What about it isn't legit? I think it was a pretty good catch.

P.S: OH NO NOW GREYICE IS DOING IT

~All

ponies

are within posting guidelines~

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Can we vote Voided? I just want this day to end.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

VOTE: VOIDEDMAFIA

[weirdvoigts]

If we needed to unvote, then
UNVOTE:
VOTE: VOIDEDMAFIA

[weirdvoigts]

VOTE: Thomith

[weirdvoigts]

So...are we scummy for anything besides likely partners with Implosion? And what's so obvtown about Thomith? We stated earlier that they were likely partners, and I don't see anything to change that.

Also,

Odd vig + even jailkeeper has positive synergy for town (JK interferes with vig so it's beneficial for them to go on different nights).
That and yesterday's scumlynch make me much less bullet-lynch-happy.
I suspect either WV or Banshee was the bussing scum.
And any of Neruz/Hiphop/Implosion could be the offwagon scum. Though there was that hiphop thing which was bizarre and may have made him town?

RD counterclaiming EB is suspicious ish now but not really considering lynchdrive.

I need to go look for evidence of daytalk.

Also we'e going to be on the records page for third largest D1 ever in a mini!

BWAHAHAHA YES YES
VOTE: WEIRDVOIGTS

What put you over the edge to vote us?

Implosion case is meh.

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

We're a Vanilla Townie.

and I don't see anything to change that.

You are more scummy for hammering with no reasoning than me voting with a reason, even if it was more gut than a massive case.

When I asked if I should vote Voided to finally end the day, you said:

if you think it is right then i don't see a reason why not.

What made you change your mind?

Neruz is obvtown after that thing about not knowing that Beck was dead. Banshee also looks town for not having picked up on what Rainbow's role is (scum have more incentive to think about it, and would have figured it out by now).

[weirdvoigts]

Oh yeah. Implosion next, please. Here are a couple of things Thomith said that make me think he and Voided are buddies:

You are really voting people who refuse to vote in RVS now?

This was posted right after EB voted Voided. Come to think of it, this is a towntell for EB, as I don't see scum voting their buddy for an action that occurred right at the start of the game.

I don't like the way that not many people are thinking about voided now, i know other things have popped up but it sort of seems it has let voided slip under the radar a little imo.

Ok let me rephrase what i meant as it is obviously not obvious.
Voided was suspected and is now seeming to slip under the radar, after we have dealt with current events i think we need to look at voided although we should be keeping an eye on voided at the current time.

This looks like classic distancing to me. "Hey guys, I'm making sure to mention Voided and keep thinking about him, but I don't want to look at him or vote him right now because there are more important things to focus on."

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Sorry, got to go really quick, can't read right now.
Posting this in all my games:
School just started today, and football will be starting up next Tuesday, so expect a dramatic decrease in my posting, about once a day. I may have more time to devote to games if I die in one, but there's no guarantees. Also, before I forget, I'm also moving this weekend, so that'll just make things worse.

Sorry.

[weirdvoigts]

Hi. We'll try to catch up as soon as we can.

[weirdvoigts]

If hiphop's role was town, it seems overpowered with an innocent child. Assuming that the IC was known, and the watcher wasn't, it could net a free scum...and the IC would still be alive because of the bodyguard. This is in addition to the odd-night vig and even-night JK. Add it all up, and hiphop's claim doesn't make much sense. I'd be willing to lynch hiphop today if others are willing to "risk it." The problem is that hiphop and Thomith don't make any sense as buddies.

OK.
Did some metaing
VOTE: Thomith
Will still read more.

Can you explain this "metaing"?

I feel like I should defend against the votes on us, but I'm not really sure what the case is. Anything else I should address?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Giving scum a watcher in a game with an innocent child makes its own awesome kind of sense.
Town PRs have obvious target -> scum watches target -> Scum kills the PRs.
Grey used to play magic, I'll bet he loves synergy like that and the bodyguard - IC combo.

So yeah once we've eliminated the VT scum hiphop is definitely next.

This is a terrible post.

Why? It makes sense to me.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

1312 contains a great point and Thomith seems quite a bit less obvtown than before. Just because it'd be a shame if there was only one scum trying to quickhammer deselby.

I think Thomith will be the best lynch for today. Slightly possible as scum plus we've talked yesterday about the wealth of information it would give us.

Huh? Rainbowdash was saying she did

not

think Thomith was scum in that post.

I'm willing to lynch hiphop again too although his interaction with Voided yesterday doesn't add up. Maybe this is made irrelevant by the fact that they had daytalk. Actually that's gotta be it. And I can EASILY see Llama and hiphop as buddies. I just feel like I had a moment of shining clarity actually. Hiphop/Llama makes all sorts of sense. Yeah. See 1437.

That actually might be right. I really think hiphop is scum, but he doesn't make sense as a Thomith buddy.

I just don't see town giving scum a bunch of ideas for their best possible move.

(shrug) If scum, Llama would be able to mention it toNight assuming he wasn't lynched. And if town, he could just sincerely be trying to catch scum with the setup speculation. (This doesn't make him town, but I can see the motivation.)

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

UNVOTE: Thomith
VOTE: hiphop

BTW, Alex is still catching up.

[weirdvoigts]

I love how everypony simply seems intent on destroying all my hypothesies.

@WV - Who is scum with hiphop?

Llamarble, I suppose. (Alex wanted me to say Voidedmafia.)

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

I love how everypony simply seems intent on destroying all my hypothesies.

@WV - Who is scum with hiphop?

Llamarble, I suppose. (Alex wanted me to say Voidedmafia.)

-bvoigt

Do what Alex says next time. You've successfully ruined a good lol.

sowwy

Also, here's my reasoning: if hiphop is scum, the other one presumably claimed VT. That leaves:

Ellibereth- Town for his reactions during twilight, and also looked like he was sincerely scumhunting during back-and-forth with Thomith.
Banshee- Probably town because she also seems sincere.
Neruz- Town for not knowing that the scum killed Beck.
Thomith- Probably town for his interactions with hiphop, although I guess it could be possible that daytalk allowed them to coordinate heavy bussing.
Llamarble- Scum by PoE.

[weirdvoigts]

I love how everypony simply seems intent on destroying all my hypothesies. @WV - Who is scum with hiphop?

Llamarble, I suppose. (Alex wanted me to say Voidedmafia.) -bvoigt

Do what Alex says next time. You've successfully ruined a good lol.

sowwy

XD Anyways, WHEE 15 PAGES TO READ AND I TOTALLY DIDN'T SKIM OR ANYTHING Massclaim was a good idea, pretty sure there's one scum in there. Hiphop seems scummiest (Watcher with Innocent Child, and a Bodyguard? Lol), but I could be wrong about this. There's something I want to clear up first, I have a theory that I'll explain once I get the answer to this.
@Hiphop: You're the most experienced person here, right? Do you know off the top of your head if Encryptor is a normal role?
I want Hiphop to answer this, not someone else, I have a theory.
I think Neruz is town, as Hiphop mentioned a while back, scum not realizing Beck died? How does that work?
This game is confusing me...

PS: Sorry for the short catchup, I skimmed though. If you have anything you want me to answer, I'd be happy to. Maybe I can even get Bvoigt to not botch a joke (yeah right).

PPS: I agree with Bvoigt's above post.

~Wierdalexv, back from the dead

[weirdvoigts]

Link to the post(s) before I make a conclusion.

[weirdvoigts]

EBWOEBWOP:

@Mod: You have us voting both Thomith and Hiphop.

Hmm. I'll talk over that contradiction with Bvoigt.

~Wierdalexv

EBWOP:

@Mod: You have us voting both Thomith and Hiphop.

Just bolding that so the mod doesn't miss it.

~Wierdalexv

/Crap

Fixed

[weirdvoigts]

@Llamarble: Please explain whether or not you did any meta on Thomith.

think Thomith will be the best lynch for today.

I don't want Thomith lynched.

Oh the contradictions UNVOTE: VOTE: EB I know we said not to lynch a power role today but this is the biggest contradiction ever, "i want to lynch this person" "i don't want thomith lynched" scumradaroffthecharts.

I guess it's a contradiction, but I don't see what makes it more likely to come from scum. EB's not going to forget his "read" in 150 posts, and even if he did, a townie's just as likely to forget about something as scum.

keep in mind it doesn't matter it is still a contradiction.

You don't think that was enough time to change his mind, or simply forget about it as town?

:yepyep:
I've played with bvoigtscum and he sounded more or less like here.
Also he and voided had sketchy D1 interactions.
And a whole bunch of the other ponies are town.

Have you played with me as town? I sound pretty much the same.

[weirdvoigts]

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

Why would ANYONE want to fake the degree of townness Thomith has demonstrated in this game?

I really do not see how you see the above.

Weird -I have never heard of an encryptor before, and had to wiki it, to even know what it was. Also, I do not think I am the most experienced, llama, and Elli have both played more games than I. To answer the question though, no, I don't know if the encryptor role is considered normal. This is only my third(fourth maybe) normal mini, and 6th normal overall.

Dangit.

I'll explain my little gambit here.

There was no theory.
I knew that Mafia Encryptor was a non-normal role.
You thought that Rainbowdash was an Elite Bodyguard.
You knew that Elite Bodyguard was Non-Normal.
There's no reason to fake this as scum.
If you knew that Encryptor was non-normal, then you would have known that Elite Bodyguard was not possible, more or less confirming him as town.

Make sense?

Brings up one thing though. How did you know that Elite Bodyguard was non-normal if know so little about normal games?

~Wierdalexv

[weirdvoigts]

Llamarble - I don't know. I was pretty sure he was scum earlier.

Then he started arguing with me in a way I definitely associate with town.

I dunno. I'm going to put this at null. I don't like the sudden recent backhanded suspicion at Rainbow given his past play; that, to me, is the scummiest thing he's done lately since the reasoning he gave was reasoning that should have existed throughout the game, not just suddenly when he decided to bring it up.

Could you please expand on this?

Why isn't she scum?

She posted a list to lynch with me on it, how would this make her scum?

First she said she wanted to lynch EB, and then 4 posts later, even though he hadn't posted, she changed her mind and dropped him off of her suspicions list. What do you think?

UNVOTE: hiphop
VOTE: Llamarble

I know I said earlier not to use associative tells without a flip, but I strongly feel that hiphop is scum. But since that isn't happening, we might as well lynch his buddy. Several recent posts point to a Llama/hiphop team:

Maybe we should just lynch hiphop today...

I'm still not entirely made-up-mind between WV & Neruz, and would appreciate some more thoughts about which one will flip scum.

He doesn't want to make it look like he's afraid to lynch hiphop, but he never follows through on #1674. He doesn't put out a feeler vote or ask anyone else if they'd support the wagon. Instead, he goes straight back to the VTs. Also, there is this, an EBWOP done two and a half hours after the first part. I feel like Llama is better than this, but it almost seems like his curiosity got the better of him:

Also why am I "the best partner for hiphop?"

[weirdvoigts]

Also, I just want to state for the record that I was willing to lynch the claimed watcher, whose role made perfect sense for scum, when we had too many PR claims. Everyone else (except Llama, who gets a free pass) is too concerned about failure, and not concerned enough about actually, well, lynching scum.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

VOTE: hiphop

[weirdvoigts]

It's a bad sign when you have to quickvote (I don't know if it's a hammer or not) as town on Day 2. Also, I will be

V/LA

until Sunday afternoon. Don't know if Alex will post or not.

Llamarble - I don't know. I was pretty sure he was scum earlier.

Then he started arguing with me in a way I definitely associate with town.

I dunno. I'm going to put this at null. I don't like the sudden recent backhanded suspicion at Rainbow given his past play; that, to me, is the scummiest thing he's done lately since the reasoning he gave was reasoning that should have existed throughout the game, not just suddenly when he decided to bring it up.

Could you please expand on this?

Sure, I think so. I can't really make a lengthy post right now because I'm writing to a deadline, so if you need more it will need to wait til tomorrow.

I was pretty aggressive in attacking Llamarble and I argued with him pretty harshly. In my experience, scum tend to back down and become more conciliatory when someone attacks them because they're concerned about how they look to others. Llamarble didn't do that. I started with thinking Llamarble was obvscum, OBVIOUSLY. His responses to me made me reconsider that. His responses didn't change even when I pressured him just about as hard as I'm capable of.

I can get the quotes and things tomorrow if you still need and want them. Let me know.

That's OK, I get what you're saying.

I forget, why are we just letting Ellibereth run around making posts like 1744 without any scrutiny?

Because he's obvtown.

@weirdvoigts:

Why did you not address the case made against Neruz at all and instead put up a countercase of your own without giving any indication you were aware of the Neruz case, which I believe was the main thing going on at the time you were reading over the game and posting?

This omission seems very odd to me. Was it deliberate?

Well, obviously I deliberately posted about other stuff...but I didn't have any particular reason to avoid it. Neruz looked pretty town to me earlier, but Llama's case does make sense. It just doesn't fit with my 2 scumreads.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

VOTE: Llamarble

[weirdvoigts]

Before Rainbowdash changes her mind yet again. Could I have really hammered scum 3 days in a row?

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

All right. Our lynch is probably inevitable, but I'd like to see an actual case. What exactly makes us scum? Also, I want you guys to remember that I hammered both scum, putting the scumteam in an awfully difficult situation, and obviously didn't get any towncred from it.

I'm going to look at how hiphop treated Thomith at the end of Day 1 and beginning of Day 2. It's my opinion that hiphop might have treated him a little differently on Day 2 if they were buddies, because they lost both a partner and daytalk when Voided was lynched. Then Alex and I will do some VCA.

[weirdvoigts]

All right. Our lynch is probably inevitable, but I'd like to see an actual case.

Anyone?

EB are you going to out who you jailed last night/ is it a good idea to do so?
Although this is assuming there is not a fourth scum but wouldn't jailed be clear?

He's even-night. Anyway, Alex is working on some more detailed VCA at the moment, but here's what I've got. Implosion is confirmed town, so he'll be green with the dead townies. I'm also putting EB as light green because his claim makes him very likely town.

hiphop

(L-2) -

Beck

,

Evil Bullet

,

Implosion

,

Rainbowdash

,

Voidedmafia

Voidedmafia

(L-1) -

Evil Bullet

,

Beck

,

Sleuth

,

Rainbowdash

, Thomith, Neruz
Neruz (L-1) -Thomith,

Beck

,

Llamarble

,

weirdvoigts

,

Rainbowdash

,

Evil Bullet

Evil Bullet

(L-1) - Thomith, Ellibereth, Neruz,

Llamarble

,

weirdvoigts

,

Rainbowdash

Voidedmafia

(LYNCHED) -

Sleuth

, Banshee, Thomith,

Rainbowdash

,

Beck

,

Evil Bullet

,

weirdvoigts

Thomith (L-1) -

weirdvoigts

,

hiphop

,

Rainbowdash

, Neruz,

Llamarble

hiphop

(LYNCHED) -

implosion

,

Llamarble

, Banshee,

Rainbowdash

, Neruz,

weirdvoigts

Llamarble

(LYNCHED) -

Evil Bullet

,

implosion

, Banshee,

weirdvoigts

, Thomith

The first wagon, obviously, and the last 3 aren't all that informative to me. However, that leaves 4 wagons that seem unlikely to be all town. And when you look at them, you'll find there's a common denominator.

Voidedmafia: Thomith or Neruz (maybe EB)
Neruz: Thomith (maybe EB)
Evil Bullet: Thomith, Ellibereth, or Neruz
Voidedmafia: Banshee or Thomith (maybe EB)

VOTE: Thomith

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

There's another common denominator in that vote count wv. (Hint: It's you.)

We were on 3 of those 4 particularly important wagons, same as EB. But when I flip, you'll find Thomith scummy too- right?

and the last 3 aren't all that informative to me

oh it isn't informative at all that you miss the wagon on me which you are in, and the second to last you wanted to hammer, thing is i didn't not yet anyway, and your town cred hammer thing makes no sence, as it is basically you saying you hammered them to get town cred so...

The wagon on you already had 1 out of 2 scum on it. For the hiphop and Llamarble, there was only 1 scum available to vote, and so it's a toss up whether or not that last scum was on the wagon. Does that make sense?

It's interesting that 5 of the 6 listed vote counts where wv shows up, he's right at the end of the wagon, very scummy voting there.

The wagons on you and EB popped up very quickly, and the order of the voters is more or less the order that people got online. 2 of those other votes are me hammering scum, which AFIAK isn't a scumtell. But yes, I was late on the Llamarble wagon. So was Thomith.

the way he said the hammering of scum wagons would buy him town cred was as if he prepared that when he hammered the scum, as if he knew they would be scum lynches, although that could be me WIFOMing.

Obviously I didn't hammer them for town cred. I hammered them because I'm town and I like to lynch scum. (Difficult concept, I know.) What I was trying to say is that it would be just plain bad scum play to kill both of your buddies as scum on Day 2. Even if I end up being mislynched here, scum still have an uphill battle if they want to win. I know it's WIFOM, but hammering hiphop would be an incredibly stupid move.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

SINCE SENTENCE CASE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE EFFECTIVE, I'M USING RIGHT SHIFT INSTEAD. IF YOU'RE VOTING ME OR WANT TO VOTE ME, POST REASONS WHY.

-BVOIGT

[weirdvoigts]

JUST STOPPING IN TO SAY THAT SCREAMING DEATH CLAN IS GONNA HAVE TWO NEW MEMBERS SOON

AND I'M STILL WAITING FOR THE CASE ON US

~WIERDALEXV

[weirdvoigts]

HEY GUYS, EITHER POST A CASE IN YOUR NEXT POST, OR COPY/PASTE THIS:

Code: Select all

[UNVOTE]WEIRDVOIGTS[/UNVOTE]
[VOTE]THOMITH[/VOTE]

-BOTH OF US

[weirdvoigts]

UM HE WAS JAILKEPT AND THERE WAS NO KILL

WHY WOULDN'T WE HAMMER HIM? HE WAS ALMOST CONFIRMED SCUM, EXCEPT THE SCUM HAVE AN IQ -> OURS

WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO QUESTION OUR RIGHT TO *CAPSRAGERAWWWWWWR*? WE'RE ANGRY ABOUT OUR GODAWFUL MISLYNCH WHEN NOBODY WILL GIVE US A CASE

ALSO, I DON'T SEE AN UNVOTE WIERDVOIGTS, VOTE TOMITH OR A CASE ON US IN THAT POST

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

~WIERDALEXV, THE HEAD WHO CAME OUT OF MUTENESS WHEN *CAPSRAGE* WAS MENTIONED

[weirdvoigts]

Just out of curiosity, WV, what was your case on Llamarble before you popped in out of nowhere to try to hammer him? I surely don't recall seeing it. Can you link me to it?

Do you really think you have a right to this kind of dramatic overkill?

I SAID WHY LLAMARBLE LOOKED LIKE A HIPHOP BUDDY HERE. YES.

If you're town, why do you care so much if you're lynched? That's a pretty good case right there. I get annoyed when people keep saying "Oh, Banshee is scum!" and then not voting me, because I feel like they're trying to stack mislynches. But no one is doing that to you, so why the rage right now?

If Thomith was such obvscum, why weren't you supporting MY case yesterday?

Why are you suddenly jumping on this case now in this particular self-serving way? Where were you yesterday?

Oh, that's right. You were coming in and trying to quickhammer without contributing word one of discussion or comment beforehand.

That's scummy enough to vote you ANY day.

STILL waiting for Elli.

GENERALLY, I LIKE TO LYNCH SCUM. I AM NOT SCUM. THEREFORE, IF YOU LYNCH ME, YOU ARE NOT LYNCHING SCUM. THEREFORE, I DO NOT WANT TO BE LYNCHED. I KNOW THIS IS A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.

I JUST POSTED A VCA LIKE 1 PAGE AGO. YESTERDAY I THOUGHT LLAMARBLE WAS SCUM.

-BVOIGT

[weirdvoigts]

It is important to note and remember that you did in fact post a case on Llamarble in order to move your vote off hiphop and onto Llamarble when hiphop was in danger of being lynched.

OMG this is terrible. As I specifically said in my post, I moved my vote because everyone else was insistent on lynching a claimed VT. Then I moved my vote back when people decided they would lynch hiphop after all.

lolwierded
you're no SDC
and you never will be

Alex says lots of dumb things. But it was fun.

I'm okay with whoever wants to hammer now. My vote is just to go ahead. WV disappearing after I actually made my case on him makes me think he may well be scum anyway, so I don't see a point in delaying.

You use absolutely terrible logic. I disappeared because yesterday I had school. Then I had a cross-country meet. Then I went to bed. Then I had school. Then I came home and posted.

-bvoigt