Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[implosion]

Hey hiphop, why are you ignoring me?

[hiphop]

I usually do that to people that have a chip on their shoulder.

[Voidedmafia]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

You are having regrets? Why? If you truly were town, why would you do something, that you regret later?

...Regrets? Where do you get regret from?

[hiphop]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...

IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

You are having regrets? Why? If you truly were town, why would you do something, that you regret later?

...Regrets? Where do you get regret from?

The bolded. It is like you are sorry that people suspect you, because of the bolded. It is like you are scum, sorry that you may be lynched, because of the bolded. I very much doubt that voided-town would feel that way.

[Voidedmafia]

Umm...That's just me pointing out why my Thomith vote wasn't actually a sheep, not really being sorry. Good job trying to flail with that, though.

[hiphop]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...

IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

Ok, now you have lost me. Doesn't the bolded say that you also believe it was a sheep.

And doesn't the top paragraph of post #146 indicate that it was a sheep also. Or is there something I am missing?

[Rainbowdash]

So rainbow, wanna join me in voting hiphop? I mean, Beck isn't a particularly bad vote, but there are better ones.

I want to get reads from this push first, it should help with a few things that I am not quite sure of. Hiphop is a good wagon though, and I am not going to do anything to try and derail it. That and I want to actually see what Thomith does given his jump with me, I have my mini case but actually want him to lay down the first card in this situation.

Rainbowdash-I tried to defend against someone who I thought was townie way back in Newbie 845. Right before I played in my first scum game. I defended scum day 1, because I thought that with everyone pushing the wagon, that it might be scum driven. Turns out his partner was bussing, scum was lynch, I was lynched day 2. I intend to never do it again, though I have done it as scum since.

That is a very poor reason to never defend another pony again. At times will it bite you? Sure, but anypony who is competent can usually still get out of a lynch if they are town given defense mannerisms, and if you are good at reading town, its rare that you hardcore defend scum to start. As the element of loyalty I should know a few things about putting friends first, not like its possible to ever win this game without a town read.

[Voidedmafia]

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...

IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it with my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you.

Ok, now you have lost me. Doesn't the bolded say that you also believe it was a sheep.

No. First sentence is where I correct myself in who I have original points against (I had originally said this about Thomith, but it was really toward Neruz, as I have explained). The 2nd part would be like you say, but only if you ignore everything after the ellipse. Take the stuff after the ellipse into account, and I'm not really claiming to sheep at all.

And doesn't the top paragraph of post #146 indicate that it was a sheep also. Or is there something I am missing?

I drew my own logic off of other's posts to sustain my vote. Of course, in my book, that's not sheeping (unless the logic you're using is just really flimsy and just an excuse so you can say "Hey, I'm not sheeping!"). But I assure you, that wasn't what I was doing.

[Beck]

ok so doing finally got a few minutes to sit down and start a re-read. I am typing my thoughts as I go.

p.1 - voided clearly missed where hip said Thom was always scum and thom replied back showing he hasn't always been scum, clearly it wasn't a claim and anyone who actually thinks it was isn't looking at the big picture, so that would be specifically voided and neuru. Implosion has a point, neru says he thinks thom has earned scum points, there was no need to change your rvs vote

p.2 - more people point out why neruz's 2nd vote was weird, I facepalm at my own post because actually reading the thread, I realize that the issue wasn't the 2nd rvs, it was the 2nd rvs while calling somebody else scummy. I find it odd, that thom doesn't think it is weird that somebody thinks he is scummy but votes a random, about as odd as neurz actually committing the act in the first place. Oh hi Hiphop =/= Hiplop, glad to know. Rainbow is getting on my nerves with this pony crap, speak normal please. post 46, despite having horrible grammar the post actually makes no sense. What evidence do we have on day 1? The goal of day 1 is to pressure people and if somebody is even remotely scummy, you vote them. You don't say, I thinkyou are scummy so I will vote somebody else. post 49 - yes, town should absolutely vote for somebody that they don't have many scum points on, as long as they have some scum points. You start voting your most suspicious person. Neruz in a nutshell said "he is scummy to me but I am not going to vote him, I'm going to vote an LOL vote instead" and THAT is scummy.

Vote: Neruz, and FOS Thom

Gotta go pick my son up from his friend's house, make dinner, etc so I will be on later this evening to provide more content, if I don't get on tonight definitely more tomorrow at work. As I mentioned earlier this weekend is extremely busy for me.

[hiphop]

That is a very poor reason to never defend another pony again. At times will it bite you? Sure, but anypony who is competent can usually still get out of a lynch if they are town given defense mannerisms, and if you are good at reading town, its rare that you hardcore defend scum to start. As the element of loyalty I should know a few things about putting friends first, not like its possible to ever win this game without a town read.

There is a difference between 2 pages in and day 3. Hence Thomith=Scum.

Voided-So, it was sarcasm?

[weirdvoigts]

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.
Those are the four possible motivations I can think of. As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

I think this post is ridiculously scummy but I'm not gonna do anything about it because there's a maximum 30% chance you're scum so you're probably town. Hmm I should just stop having reads actually. There's a pretty good chance that everyone is town.

This confuses me. Can you please just say what you mean without the sarcasm?

There are four possible motivations, WV, for you pushing a lynch on Thomith:
1. You are scum pushing a townie to get a mislynch.
2. You are scum pushing a buddy to get towncred from a bus.
3. You are scum tunneling on a townie so that you don't have to focus on too many other people.
4. You are town legitimately pushing on someone you think is scum.

Alex (hopefully) wasn't saying that, because there were 3 scum motivations and 1 town motivation, Thomith had a 75% percent chance of being scum. Rather, he was saying that I did consider both the town and scum motivations, and the scum motivations are more probable than the town ones.

hiphop and implosion look town so far.

-bvoigt

[weirdvoigts]

he was blatantly using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

Where?

omg hiphop implosion is defending me does that make us obvious scum buddies?

You know perfectly well that tells don't occur in a vacuum. There are some situations where a defense makes sense, and some where it doesn't. So this strikes me as a scummy argument.

-bvoigt

[Beck]

page 3 - more discussion about the rvs and thom, so far all good points made about thom. post 61, why even mention this game in the first place except to say "look as scum I buddy, don't defend"?
and thom, on day 1 town is supposed to question the people they are suspicious of, if somebody does something suspicious they vote them and guage reactions. @ evil, it wasn't the 2nd rvs vote that people were voting him, it was due to the fact he said he felt somebody scummy but decided not to vote that person. I do agree that void's switch to thom with no real reason is odd.

page 4 - I don't know if I entirely agree with pony on this one, defending isn't a scum slip, but you have to look at the reasoning behind it and I am not sold on thom being town so his defense is questionable at best. Hip is making it a bigger deal than it need to be though. And the hydra proves why I hate hydras, make your decisions in your QT and once you decide stick with it in the game thread, it's too confusing. Rainbow, the fact that you find thom and nurez as both town is quite shocking really. is it me or is Voided's response to rainbow's posts look like he has just been coached? - http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3343099
The question from the weird hydra, seemed to serve no purpose, not sure why he asked it.
don't like anything neruz says on this page and to think there is actually a cult is naive, not even sure why he brought it up, setup speculation in generally is a no-no but day 1? even worse
I see people provide the answers that I would later provide. I guess I really should read before posting in the future.

more to come later....

[Voidedmafia]

Voided-So, it was sarcasm?

Not even close. Closer than thinking it's regret, but still not close.

Beck: It probably sounds like coaching since I was asking for elaboration or just got the application of the tell wrong.

[Beck]

he was blatantly using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

You realize you volunteered this game yourself and explained how you buddy as scum, not defend.
Once you open the can, it's hard to put the worms back in.

[Beck]

Take it up with GreyICE, not me. I'd quote the PM he sent me (and presumably others), but i think that technically violates Rule 1. Regardless, GreyICE explicitly stated there were three cult recruiters in this game, that it had been rejected over 11 times by Vi and Hoopla, called a travesty to the concept of balance and fair play and winner of the most explicitly non-normal role submissions that will be explicitly blacklisted on the wiki as soon as the reviewers find their jaws.

do you realize if this was true you would not be allowed to play this game?

[Beck]

Beck: It probably sounds like coaching since I was asking for elaboration or just got the application of the tell wrong.

ok

will do the rest tomorrow probably

[Beck]

him attacking me he said something like "he is defending town because he knows neruz's allignment to get town points" which i did in the game he modded so he was blatantly using that game against me.

Every single game I have played in, somebody defends somebody else and they get called out for it. To think he is doing it based on a game he modded, is very naive thinking.

I like implosions catchup posts, even if I disagree about hip

I'd like to point out that page 6 is where I post that I had been busy and would read up later.

During that time somebody mentions that 2 people haven't posted at all, and like clock work, one of those people post right away. Very odd timing IMO, and he makes a comment about nurez doing something on page 1, but doesn't explain what it was he did and he hasn't come back to explain it.

Rainbow says he is leaning on one of 2 people being scum, but instead of voting them, he does what nurez did, votes for somebody else and doesn't even say why. Now I don't care about the vote, I do care about why he would not vote one of the people he thinks is scum.

After that Thom adds in his FOS of me and Sleuth, but is sticking with his vote on void

Void posts 1 post and that's good enough for thom to not think he is scum anymore?

And he votes me, for my lack of content even after I explained that more content was coming, and I will argue that my content was more useful than anything sleuth has said.

Again, I don't care if people vote for me but you got to come at me better than 1. No reason given and 2. My lack of content compared to his other FOS.

I'm not sure nurez ATM.

un-vote

Questions for Thom.

1. Why did you vote for void and why did you unvote?
2. Why did you FOS and vote me right so quickly after rainbow voted me? It looks like blatant sheeping
3. Why did you vote for me over sleuth?
4. Did you notice my post where I explained why I was less active and promised more content later?

[Evil Bullet]

Can we get a votecount?

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, votecount please

(don't forget to bold, EB)

[deselby]

him attacking me he said something like "he is defending town because he knows neruz's allignment to get town points" which i did in the game he modded so he was blatantly using that game against me.

he was

blatantly

using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.

Hiphop - is this true?

Absolutely not. He is clearly strawmanning. I have named countless examples of why he is scum. Every single posts seems to bleed scumminess.

So, either there is a serious misunderstanding here, or one of you is lying.

Thom- as beck alluded to, why are you certain that hiphops attack is based on a previous game, when this kind of attack is common?

Hiphop - Are you saying that the game thom referred to has no bearing on your attack on him?

[Neruz]

Obviously i know there is town motivation behind my posts, however i don't think he is scum at the moment. At this point i am thinking he is probably town trying to find scum but his reasons for voting me seem flawed, also i am trying to convince him he is wrong, however you don't have to be "in your face" to defend yourself.

My point was that you should be trying to both explain said town motivation and actively defending that part of Hiphop's accusations, rather than just doing the mafia equivilant of shrugging your shoulders and going 'meh', because it makes you look like you have no defense.

[Neruz]

p.1 - voided clearly missed where hip said Thom was always scum and thom replied back showing he hasn't always been scum, clearly it wasn't a claim and anyone who actually thinks it was isn't looking at the big picture, so that would be specifically voided and

neuru

.

What?!

Where the fuck did i say i thought Thomith was claiming scum.

My god, how do people who cannot read english manage to sign up for Mafia games on an english forum.

[hiphop]

deselby-I am saying what he did was done by scum. And if meta supports it, then so be it. If you don't believe that I am not using meta to say he is scum, iso me and make up your own mind, don't use me to do your dirty work. Also the second post that you quoted is buddying to an extreme.

[hiphop]

I am know I am a little late but voided's unvote after being called out for sheeping is a scumtell.

Voided- perhaps you can help my confusion by telling me who this post was directed at.