Mini 1221: Vegas Mafia (Over!)

[DemonHybrid]

Confirmed.

Vote: Timeater

[DemonHybrid]

Won't be able to post that much until later tonight. RA duties.

[DemonHybrid]

Confirmed.

Vote: Timeater

VOTE: demonhybrid for casting a second vote on 1 person already

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

Unvote, Vote: hahonryuu

[DemonHybrid]

Nintendo: Yep. That was an opportunistic vote on someone who was trying to end RVS with a textbook RVS bandwagon. Nothing more to say here.

[DemonHybrid]

Still not seeing where the vote came from. I thought it was shifty to have a second vote on someone so early. I vote for you. This makes me scum....how exactly?

Because you don't understand how RVS works and you are scum, opportunistically trying to pin me starting an RVS wagon as scummy.

If you were town, you should have been thanking me for trying to end RVS earlier.

[DemonHybrid]

Still not seeing where the vote came from. I thought it was shifty to have a second vote on someone so early. I vote for you. This makes me scum....how exactly?

Because you don't understand how RVS works and you are scum, opportunistically trying to pin me starting an RVS wagon as scummy.

But there's just one thing about what you did... you voted for someone without any logic or reasoning at all(RVS logic or not) and in the RVS that is scummy.

Also, it is way too early to be calling anyone scum. Seriously, we're on page one.

Uh...no, it's not? You of all people, nintendo, should know at this point that RVS votes with or without reasoning are null, and those on a bandwagon are meant to end RVS by pressuring the person on the other end.

Are you protecting ryu?

[DemonHybrid]

Still not seeing where the vote came from. I thought it was shifty to have a second vote on someone so early. I vote for you. This makes me scum....how exactly?

Because you don't understand how RVS works

and you are scum, opportunistically trying to pin me starting an RVS wagon as scummy.

If you were town, you should have been thanking me for trying to end RVS earlier.

apparently not. but that doesn't make me scum. that means I don't understand RVS. Besides, why thank you for ending RVS with a vote on someone with no explanation? if you are going to end it, wouldn't it be better to do it with a vote that has, i dunno...something to go off of? I saw something shifty and i address it. I'm sorry if there's something wrong with calling out a shifty action. I was under the assumption that's how things get done in here =/

You're missing my point.

Town mindset: "Oh, there's a 2nd vote on someone. Cool, lets see how the person on the other end of the bandwagon reacts."

Scum mindset: "Let me try to get the wagoner lynched, and use the fact that he posted no reasoning as a catalyst."

Did you really think my aim was to get Timeater lynched?

[DemonHybrid]

Uh...no, it's not? You of all people, nintendo, should know at this point that RVS votes with or without reasoning are null, and those on a bandwagon are meant to end RVS by pressuring the person on the other end.

Are you protecting ryu?

If RVS votes are null, then why is it not too early to call people scum?

And agreeing with someone does not mean I am protecting them.[/quote]

Did you just forget about the fact that ryu's vote had absolutely no tone of an RVS vote?

Also, good answer on your last statement.

Timeater: I don't have a meta, except for the fact that I play quietly as scum about half of the time, depending on my mood, and I very occasionally am bored as town depending on the pace of the game. But my game list is in my wiki, feel free to review it.

[DemonHybrid]

I dont know the first thing about you. i cant pretend to know what is in your head. maybe you were? maybe you werent? i dunno. Why is it that your vote is pressure and mine is scum? why exactly do you get to decide what my vote accomplishes compared to yours? its like 2 seconds into day 1, im not really expecting anyone to get lynched anytime soon whether its you trying to get timeater or me you. but that doesnt mean i wont vote/call someone out on behavior i dont like, just like you have with me

Okay, so, you have a vote. First post of the game, and it's without reason; a second vote on a bandwagon. Do you absolutely think that I was trying to hide something or get Timeater lynched? Because those are the two main reasons on why you'd feel the need to vote it.

Then you come in, and vote me for a non-RVS reason. It's for me being the 2nd vote on a wagon, and I honestly don't believe that you legitimately found it scummy. There are textbook RVS wagons ALL of the time, in nearly every game, and you waltz in and place a vote for someone trying to get the game out of RVS. The only "shiftiness" is what you've made of it, and that's what's scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

I just remembered something. One time I called someone out for being the second vote on an RVS wagon. Then I believe I got lynched for it. Come to think of it, I think it was DH that was the one to get my lynch going.

And what alignment was I?

[DemonHybrid]

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2992663

But he actually was town in that game. Still...

Didn't read this before I posted. Just got back from a meeting.

Opportunity votes are NOT shit things to vote for, and that's all I really have to say. My mind isn't 100% set on a ryuu lynch, but right now, he's the scummiest guy out of the gate. If things change, I will be flexible with my vote.

Link and Empking are town.

[DemonHybrid]

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2992663

But he actually was town in that game. Still...

Didn't read this before I posted. Just got back from a meeting.

Opportunity votes are NOT shit things to vote for, and that's all I really have to say. My mind isn't 100% set on a ryuu lynch, but right now, he's the scummiest guy out of the gate. If things change, I will be flexible with my vote.

Link and Empking are town.

I don't care for town declarations without reasoning behind them.

I thought it would be self explanatory, but scum don't usually go out on a limb making bold statements like "I think he's full of shit", and that's it. Especially someone like Empking.

Are you an alt, by the way? Curious.

[DemonHybrid]

Not really, but you have a very sharp playstyle, so I was wondering.

[DemonHybrid]

Not really, but you have a very sharp playstyle, so I was wondering.

Are alts known for sharp playstyles? Or are you implying that I come off as more experienced than a player of my record typically would?

You come off as more experienced.

[DemonHybrid]

Fair enough. I'm two months late saying this, but welcome to the site.

[DemonHybrid]

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

I don't have a consistent meta, go back and read. I said "Half of the time, I play quietly as scum", and "Occasionally, I'll be bored as town". That's hardly a consistent meta.

And I'm not going to do your homework for you. My list of games are a click away, and I don't know what to give you specifically.

[DemonHybrid]

Timeater: I don't have a meta, except for the fact that I play quietly as scum

about half of the time

, depending on my mood, and I

very occasionally

am bored as town depending on the pace of the game. But my game list is in my wiki, feel free to review it.

Which basically means

"I don't have a solid meta, but if you want to try to find one, whatever, chief, I'm not stopping you."

[DemonHybrid]

Also, Timeater, me calling Link and Empking are relevant to the game and are not meant to be a detour. As well, my interaction with Link happened between the posts of #44 and #51, with the only interaction of another player being Empking correcting himself. So, what exactly was I trying to distract everyone from?

[DemonHybrid]

*me calling Link and Empking town

[DemonHybrid]

I don't have a consistent meta, go back and read. I said "Half of the time, I play quietly as scum", and "Occasionally, I'll be bored as town". That's hardly a consistent meta.

And I'm not going to do your homework for you. My list of games are a click away, and I don't know what to give you specifically.

So there is a difference between meta in general and

consistent

meta. OK.

Never asked you to. I never asked for anything in specific.

Also, Timeater, me calling Link and Empking are relevant to the game and are not meant to be a detour. As well, my interaction with Link happened between the posts of #44 and #51, with the only interaction of another player being Empking correcting himself. So, what exactly was I trying to distract everyone from?

Did I not address that paragraph to "@everyone but Demon"

Yes, there is difference between consistent meta and meta in general (as in, games that happened in the past).

Also, I'm not liking the way you're carrying yourself.

Unvote, Vote: Timeater

Not only are you voting me for something that you say you didn't ask me specifically about, you say that my "early game interactions call for passionate town, but he fails to see the fact that ryuu could just be a noob". Not only does this not label that mindset as scummy at all, but you also attack the fact that I talked with Link with no other interactions going on at all, and saying that my offhand comment on my read on Empking and Link was a "detour". All the while, you forgot about the fact that I said "ryuu was just the scummiest guy so far, and I'm not committing to a lynch of him".

So, really, this is what you've been saying.

"His early game play COULD be townish, but he doesn't see how ryuu can just be a noob. Also, he gave two reads and had a short offhanded conversation with someone else, so I'm going to vote him."

You put me in a false dichotomy with the fact that you asked for meta, and then when I tried to give it to you, you shot it down, saying that I was "inconsistent", but yet, you still found something scummy in it, even though I voluntarily gave you the information you needed.

This was all said and done after a full page of you sitting back and not commenting. You are the one that's spouting the dissonance. Your position on the wagon is scummy, your reasoning is scummy, the way you set up the meta argument is scummy, and the way you attacked my short side conversation and the fact that I gave two reads, which is a perfectly normal thing to do in this game, is scummy.

On the side, the longer Maruchan posts fluff, the longer I want him dead, too.

[DemonHybrid]

Did I not address that paragraph to "@everyone but Demon"

This was the icing on the cake. Posting something that you don't want a response to is terribly scummy, especially on someone that has a couple of votes on him already.

You want to cement the lynch and you don't want to give me a chance to defend myself.

[DemonHybrid]

but REALLY? I mean the logic here boils down to "I voted him because he voted me".

I voted him because he placed an opportunistic vote. The fact that it was on me was irrelevant.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm pretty much playing in the exact same way I am playing in your mortal kombat game.

#65 and #66 are really bad and full of fail. Post saying why is coming tomorrow.

No ongoing game discussion.

Also, would you agree that attacking a player and not wanting a defense is scummy?

Can you agree that asking about meta, but calling me out for giving you that required information is scummy?

Can you agree that it's a distraction in and of itself by focusing on a 6 post back and forth between a player that isn't game related when there are no other interactions going on?

Can you agree that there's dissonance with calling my play town at first, but labeling that SAME play "scummy" just because you feel that I'm not seeing someone as playing noobishly?

And can you finally agree that all of this is magnified by the fact that you waited this long and after this many votes to say what you said about me?

[DemonHybrid]

I always claim at L-2, and I'm a vanilla townie.

I don't have time to talk to twisted, but you're missing the obvious dissonance on Timeater between posts like...

Gonna have to disagree with DH about his point in 17#. Not defending or attacking, just disagreeing. (OMG Timeater overly cautious and nervous scum!)

@Empking

Who is the second best player here?

@nintendo

How much information is needed to end the RVS?

Requesting meta citation on DH's playstyle if anyone has played with him before.

and

Vote: DemonHybrid

Demon, a question for you. Why did you take it upon yourself to answer my request in #26 then proceed to not really say anything?

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

Post #28 has left me somewhat baffled.

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

This.


Wake the fuck up.

[DemonHybrid]

"I'm not attacking nor defending"

"Can I get some meta?"

-3 votes later-

"FUCKING KILL HIM"

[DemonHybrid]

I just skimmed your case, and you're voting me for sarcastic praise on nintendo's point, and a non-game related "welcome to the site" side conversation that had no relevance to ANYTHING at all that we were doing.

Yeah, think about that. And by the way, calling someone's playstyle as "sharp" is not a compliment, but an observation.

[DemonHybrid]

well thanks for "skimming my case"

I "skimmed" your post and it was strawmanning

But is it? Really?

You fucking voted me for two "compliments", both which were not even fucking compliments, so guess who's doing the fucking strawmanning?

I'm not speaking again in this game until people start questioning both Timeater's fucking case, his will to put me in an inescapable position AND his timing. Until then, go ahead and fucking lynch me. I always get lynched in games where people don't understand shit about what's going on.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, here's one, and another and you guessed it, another here where I had an aggressive, scumhunting attitude and HEY, look at that, I flipped town but was lynched by a bunch of people with heads up their asses making cases like "you made "compliments"" and "here's why I think he's scum, but he's NOT to answer my very obviously laid out, timed and calculated case", which was made by obvious fucking scum and something that you guys can't comprehend.

Cheers.

[DemonHybrid]

you skimmed it like you say. took me an hour to do that post so it doesn't make me all too happy

I'll go and Iso timeater just for you DH though.

I skimmed it because I have an RA meeting in 2 minutes, and I'm on my phone. If I had the time, I'd be going in depth. Like everything else misrepresenting me in this game, my skimming of your case =/= I don't care for it. I do, I just don't have time.

Will post later if I'm alive.

[DemonHybrid]

Link: So Cold was not scum. I was right on all counts for sorasville and inglourious (save 1 at the end).

[DemonHybrid]

First of all, the probability that an RVS wagon on scum gets driven up to L-2 like that is close to 0, so lynching DH for his attack on hohanryuu would be stupid.

no

Not much time. I agree with empking that this is wrong.

I like the rest of Zdeneks post, though.

[DemonHybrid]

I was going to unvote you but after this.

Uhh how about no. You're fine at L-3

In response to #66 and #65.

I never stated specifically why I was voting for you, Demon. http://youtu.be/eZdYoGUkqn0

That paragraph, addressed to everyone but you - was just my thoughts on the situation. I wanted to see if you could resist quoting it, if you could resist addressing it. You couldnt. I now know more about you as a player.

You heavily implied why you were voting for me.

Also, you basically JUST stated a damned-if-I-do-damned-if-I-don't trap when you say "I wanted to see if you could resist quoting it". That's fucking bullshit and scummy. You basically JUST stated and confirmed that you posted a "case" that you didn't want me to respond to.

Entirely incorrect false and untrue. I asked for a meta citation, and have gotten it so far from various other posts and sources. "Look it up yourself" and "Sometimes I'm quiet as scum" is not a meta citation. Please dont try to act like it is. False dichotomy my ass.

So.....you think that the person who you're asking meta on is less valid than other people when he gives his

own fucking meta

and should be lynched for trying to set the story straight?

1. A FULL PAGE OF NOT COMMENTING HUH. 2. I am attacking you because I want to see you flail. You are flailing. Hard. 3. I never gave my "position on the wagon". I never gave my reasoning. Which by the way is this - to keep pressuring you. Any scumreads I had on you at the time of my vote were somewhat inconsequential. After your blatant misrepping/floundering/desperation I'd like to see you lynched. Unlike Link I am not going to give you a pass, especially after the quote at the top of this post. 4. I set up nothing. I merely asked for a meta citation on your playstyle. You are attempting to create this elaborate construction of a "meta argument" where there is none. The only architect is you. You got super aggressive early game, you are going to draw the inquisitional eye. Get over it, sister.

1. You made 2 posts before you voted me. That speaks for itself.

2. So you aren't attacking me because I'm scummy, but because you "want to see me flail"? Does town flail sometimes? What's the difference between annoyance at scum like you who are obviously trying to take advantage of a wagon and flailing because they don't want to die?

3.

Demon, a question for you. Why did you take it upon yourself to answer my request in #26 then proceed to not really say anything?

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

Post #28 has left me somewhat baffled.

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

For the record, you keep saying that you never stated reasoning. But here is this post right here, which, at the LEAST, implies why you voted me. Damned if I do, damned if I don't much?

4. "I wanted to see you flail"
"I wanted to see if you would respond"

I set up nothing.

Okay, then.

btw not impressed by the vt claim (obviously)

i think it's funny that this was a fucking afterthought

It's obvious that you are setting up a way for me to not respond back, and to solidify a lynch that you opportunistically decided to jump on.

Finally, you keep mentioning this:

"I'm not attacking nor defending"

"Can I get some meta?"

-3 votes later-

"FUCKING KILL HIM"

but don't care that this was a summarization of the post of which I voted you in.

guess who is the one who's causing the fucking detours

[DemonHybrid]

oh, and next time you try to mislynch someone by digging an inescapable hole under their feet, you might want to act townish by saying that the VT claim is

null

, not "

unimpressive

" (ie, your way of trying to subtly paint the claim as scummy, even though you don't outright state it; don't deny it, it's fucking obvious).

[DemonHybrid]

I think he's a bad player.

Well, fuck you too.

[DemonHybrid]

Fixing to replace out of this shit if pRo ScUmMeR **>tImEaTeR<** dA kInG feels like it, since he's the better player!!!

[DemonHybrid]

If that punkass is going to question my mafia skill, ill put the ball into his court.

[DemonHybrid]

So, its Timeater, Maru and ryuu. Cool.

You didn't give a reason for your vote at all, Maru.

[DemonHybrid]

He voted me because of my L-2 VT claim.

I only really need to restate that. Its a case in and of itself.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not going to have any random guy sit there and tell me that I'm a terrible player, so no, I'm not just going to fucking "blow it off".

[DemonHybrid]

You know what, fuck you, you pretentious prick.

[DemonHybrid]

You're going to sit there and act all high and fucking mighty like you're a better fucking player, and then when I put you on the spot, you say "just brush it off brah, I'm totally not that good either". Life doesn't fucking work that way. You insult another person, and you get insulted back, so go suck a dick.

[DemonHybrid]

And at least I don't do stupid fucking shit like reference ongoing games, you fucking douche.

[DemonHybrid]

Replace out

[DemonHybrid]

Maybe next time, when stupid assholes like Timeater don't break sitewide rules and then put down other peoples' mafia skills.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm pretty much playing in the exact same way I am playing in your mortal kombat game.

#65 and #66 are really bad and full of fail. Post saying why is coming tomorrow.

This should be a modkill and I have no clue why ender looked it over.

This is why you're a terrible player. This and your attitude, of course.

[DemonHybrid]

I think he's a bad

player.

HUH IT LOOKS LIKE YOU SAID NOTHING ABOUT ME BEING BADTOWN BUT INSTEAD CALLED ME A BAD "PLAYER"

You fucking idiot.

[DemonHybrid]

I apologize to ender for posting after I asked for a replacement. Later.