Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Thomith]

Most of them are bad. best one is probably Newbie1085 which i have linked once and cba to find the link again (sorry)

[Beck]

I see him now

[Voidedmafia]

You're ignoring the fact that I'm the one who first pointed out the problem with his "2nd RVS vote", and I also factored that into my vote. So you're wrong here.

believe Implosion and Weird both point that out right after he does it in posts 21 & 22 so YOU are wrong here.

Pic's a bit too small, mate.

Also, noted.

I can't respond to "huh", what ecatly don't you understand?

God, you're in idiot if you don't understand that that isn't supposed to be taken standalone.

I agree that I don't like thom's defense of Neruz, but thom has already proved time and time again he is just a bad player

But Thom's defense of Neruz looks different from his Hiphop defense, no?

I guess I mis-understood, so you said you didn't vote for any reason of your own, fine, but it still supports my claim that you vote for little or no good reasons. so I take back the lying claim since it was a mis-understanding. I thought you said you voted for yoru own reason. apologies

RD's reasons aren't good enough?

And apology accepted.

as for the link to the coaching, I see where you would get that. It was actually a continuation of my previous post and I was just speaking in generalities of how I think a town player shoudl play, so yeah I see where you would think coaching, but it is more just me explaining my thought process of how a town player should play and I don't see you playing that way. I guess you can call it un-warranted advice, but I wouldn't even call it that.

I'd call it that (largely because of my PoV), but thanks for clearing this up.

[Voidedmafia]

Rainbow, I believe it is a Beck, Thomith, Voided. And on to the next game.

Not Thomith. Even with this recent spat of trying to act like a VI, he's still town.

Trying to act like a VI? So you think he's doing it intentionally? If so, what's the town motivation for that?

Please answer this. Also, who are your top scum reads and why?

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

My top scumread is Hiphop, largely based off what RD explained here. most of the stuff that RD grills him for after that is pretty scummy, too. He's also pretty much using a similar argument to Beck against me, which I've already pretty much explained, and is also trying to use his stubbornness to try and get out of things (namely, actually replying to my retorts against him).

[weirdvoigts]

Thom's flip if he is scum teaches us what?

Thom's flip if he is town teaches us what?

I will tell you one thing thom's lynch will do regardless of his alignment

It will render the VCA essentially useless

For one thing, a scumflip from Thomith makes hiphop pretty clear town. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. But Thomith has been the focal point of this game so far, and some careful analysis could tell us a lot about several players.

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

Um...maybe the scum motivation is trying to avoid a lynch by being seen as a "bad" player rather than a "scummy" player?

[Beck]

If thom flipped scum, hip does not increase his position at all IMO

[Evil Bullet]

Oh i didn't know the sk could contact the mafia so ok, but you shouldn't assume the most distant to the scum are town, as smart scum distance, not buddy.

Not true. I had a buddy who didn't mention me once the whole game one time. It would've gotten me lynched if that same buddy hadn't basically claimed same team as me as soon as someone noticed that he hadn't mentioned me. Anyway I still think you're town but I just notice you're saying a lot of stuff like this that totally makes you look like a noob. Maybe you should consider not talking about game theory for a while.

predit: Elli covered this already.

If it helps town, then it helps town, and i can't fight that, as i obviouslt want the best for town, obviously i don't want to be lynched (who does) but if it helps town in the long run then i won't hold grudges against people.

THIS is a scummy post. Like... wow. This is the first post from him where I wasn't like "aw, this guy is just poor misled new town." Like... there's no town motivation for this post you know? It's not like ok that could be scum motivated but I can see bad town saying that. No it's just something scum would say. Frankly, no town player cares about the town more than they care about themself.

That is a very noncommittal response there.

True one though.

PQOUWRVNOAUNR:O JMQETROUQWPOEUHNPECOUWHNIEYT UGNDJFHBCM:AIWPO URGE TO CONFIRM BECAUSE HE WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE HIS LIES

Likelihood of two scum teams or existence of an SK increased exponentially just now.

There's too many people I want dead and they can't all be a good idea to lynch I'll just stay on voided. That's fine.

[Rainbowdash]

By Celestia you ponies!

There are not two scum teams. There is not a SK. There is no cult. There is no boogeyman, santa or parasprite infestation.

Stop being paranoid over this stuff. It will hurt us in the long run since trust will get us anywhere and everywhere in this game.

VM not even twitching over being L-2 is odd enough, but then we have EB trying to move a wagon to Thomith, Thomith obviously lying about noticing it was a gambit Elli and myself were pulling, Beck trying to keep hiphop in a lynch pool if Thomith is scum, VM buddying/sheeping me very hard even after I explicitly said most of my hiphop case was based on reaction to town leader challenge, im sure Neruz doing something to piss me off recently that I can't recall off the top of my head, implosion disapperaing, Parama not being replaced yet, no recent votecount and on top of all that, well its all I have but im sure somepony else is causing me strife somehow.

Grah.

I will tell you if VM is claiming or not sometime withing the next twelve hours. We will progress from there. Ponies off the VM wagon need to weigh in near instantly on if you think he is scum or not.

[implosion]

GO GO BLATANT PROD DODGE UNTIL TOMORROW WHEN I WILL PROBABLY READ THIS

[weirdvoigts]

@Rainbow: Why are you so sure that there's no SK or multiple scum teams?

About Voided: can you summarize your case? He's mostly a null read for both of us; however, I'd say he would make sense as a Thomith buddy if Thomith flips scum.

-bvoigt

[Beck]

Rainbow

Why is/was EB a town read for you, what did he say or do to earn that?

[hiphop]

If thom flipped scum, hip does not increase his position at all IMO

If it helps town, then it helps town, and i can't fight that, as i obviouslt want the best for town, obviously i don't want to be lynched (who does) but if it helps town in the long run then i won't hold grudges against people.

THIS is a scummy post. Like... wow. This is the first post from him where I wasn't like "aw, this guy is just poor misled new town." Like... there's no town motivation for this post you know? It's not like ok that could be scum motivated but I can see bad town saying that. No it's just something scum would say. Frankly, no town player cares about the town more than they care about themself.

Completely untrue. 2 town guys in the same game, voted themselves, and put themselves at L-1, because they said they were playing to their win condition, and their flips would be beneficial.

Silver thinks it's more likely than I do that Thom is scum although we still both agree that there's probably only one scum in Thomith, Neruz, hiphop, and voided.

What I want to know is why can't Voided and Thomith be on the same team?


And Voided, can

shut up

for all I care. I am not responding to those walls.

Text in spoilers is forbidden. Text in spoiler BOXES is not.

[Evil Bullet]

By Celestia you ponies!

There are not two scum teams. There is not a SK. There is no cult. There is no boogeyman, santa or parasprite infestation.

Stop being paranoid over this stuff. It will hurt us in the long run since trust will get us anywhere and everywhere in this game.

VM not even twitching over being L-2 is odd enough, but then we have EB trying to move a wagon to Thomith, Thomith obviously lying about noticing it was a gambit Elli and myself were pulling, Beck trying to keep hiphop in a lynch pool if Thomith is scum, VM buddying/sheeping me very hard even after I explicitly said most of my hiphop case was based on reaction to town leader challenge, im sure Neruz doing something to piss me off recently that I can't recall off the top of my head, implosion disapperaing, Parama not being replaced yet, no recent votecount and on top of all that, well its all I have but im sure somepony else is causing me strife somehow.

Grah.

I will tell you if VM is claiming or not sometime withing the next twelve hours. We will progress from there. Ponies off the VM wagon need to weigh in near instantly on if you think he is scum or not.

I'm not trying to move the wagon over to Thomith. I just want a wagon on Thomith sooner rather than later.

If thom flipped scum, hip does not increase his position at all IMO

If it helps town, then it helps town, and i can't fight that, as i obviouslt want the best for town, obviously i don't want to be lynched (who does) but if it helps town in the long run then i won't hold grudges against people.

THIS is a scummy post. Like... wow. This is the first post from him where I wasn't like "aw, this guy is just poor misled new town." Like... there's no town motivation for this post you know? It's not like ok that could be scum motivated but I can see bad town saying that. No it's just something scum would say. Frankly, no town player cares about the town more than they care about themself.

Completely untrue. 2 town guys in the same game, voted themselves, and put themselves at L-1, because they said they were playing to their win condition, and their flips would be beneficial.

Silver thinks it's more likely than I do that Thom is scum although we still both agree that there's probably only one scum in Thomith, Neruz, hiphop, and voided.

What I want to know is why can't Voided and Thomith be on the same team?

And Voided, can

shut up

for all I care. I am not responding to those walls.

Bolded 1: THAT'S NOT PRO-TOWN
Bolded 2: Because... their interactions... are just not... correct... for that to be... plausible.

[Evil Bullet]

There are not two scum teams. There is not a SK. There is no

cult.

There is no

boogeyman,

santa or

parasprite infestation.

Bolded is what we can be sure does not exist.

[hiphop]

Bolded 2: Because... their interactions... are just not... correct... for that to be... plausible.

Explain.

I should prod the mod, but he said he would be v/la until the 22nd.

[Beck]

did somepony say parasprite?

[Voidedmafia]

Bah, got cut off from finishing. Will have to do a catch-up, AGAIN!

As for not taking stances, I was looking at it from both a scum and town perspective (as some/most of my posts from that point should attest), so it does stand to reason that I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about it all. So yeah, I admit that I wasn't exactly being direct and "this action is X, not Y" in regards to Thomith.

Thing is that anypony can think from both sides of the equation given enough practice, being able to get into opposite mindset is what allows ponies to be significantly above average strength in this game.

Well, I admit I don't have that part down yet, so I'm just average.

What I can't do is get into your specific mindset as well, I can infer some things about what you think from reading your posts, as you saw me pick up dissent in EBs posts already since things didn't mesh.

I did?

You are the one that needs to take at least some form of stance, even when in doubt.

But I've taken solid stances on Neruz and Hiphop and Thomith (granted, not THEN, if that's what you're referring to, but I have).

You just have to act on what you think, and actually think something.

I am thinking, and I thought that the arguments presented were good enough to follow, and in your case on Hiphop, I didn't see how I could build upon it anymore.

I honestly cannot believe anypony can have zero opinon on anypony else even after a couple of posts from them.

Wait, I never said I had zero opinion. I'm pretty sure I've given opinions on pretty much everyone here except Sleuth and Parama. Maybe I have for sleuth, but definitely not Parama.

As for Neruz, though, I think I pretty clearly said that I found him scummy for that stuff. Or am I missing something?

You have been voting Neruz for all of 90 minutes this game. Shift to Thomith off him came around the point of the quotes you were really stalling stances.

I see.

which is scummy because its a way to make it seem like you are contributing to the discussion without actually having to firmly plant hooves on either side of the line.

Is summarizing it scummy or not giving a stance scummy? Because summarzing like this isn't always scummy.

Summarizing is actually somewhat of a tell since its a great way to give illusion of doing something else to ponies who don't like to listen too closely. Not giving stances is also usually scummy since its not contributing which is bad.

Sometimes giving a summary is the best way to present a case. I'm not saying it's not bad--you're right there. But I don't believe that my case was a bad example.

What? So digging a hole was some unique way of saying commited the exact same scumtells as somepony else?

No, I'm pretty sure I never tried accusing Thomith of doing the same as Neruz.

Re-explain the digging a hole part being scummy then, because I don't get how it is.

He was defending Neruz by saying that his vote wasn't scummy or suspicious when it really was, so his defense was shabby, which implicated Neruz, and it also meant that he wasn't really able to defend very well, making himself look bad in the process.

You would like to call me out on hypocrisy, wouldn't you?

Thing is, I didn't actually call him scum in this post, nor assign any scumpoints or scumtells to him. I ONLY said he has my suspicion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get snippy with me. These hooves can not only protect but also destroy, and I will not hesitate to use them to do such if you aren't going to just answer questions straightforward. Also I love to call ponies out on being hypocritical since its a scumtell.

But I did answer it straightfowardly below that...why are you trying to say I didn't?

Sorta, you kind of just admitted to what I was saying and thought you weren't going to do that.

Now I'm confused.

How in the world is saying somepony has your suspicion, but they aren't going to get your vote any different then what happened with Neruz to start the game? Its the exact same thing, scarily the exact same thing. Even with that last post you specifically say that he has your suspicion, which makes him more scummy than anypony at null read, which is what we all railed on Neruz for.

Because I had scumreads that were worse than Neruz at the time. Neruz only had nullreads.

To me, Neruz was the lesser of two evils, and thus did not get a vote.

Who was the greater of two evils? I know that "Not Voting" pony you moved off Neruz for is a shifty character, but are they that bad?

Considering Thomith is a townread to me, he isn't now.

Wonder if just saying throw you in the big group and it becomes a pick two works better. Given early game I believe one of the three lurkers is scum or at least two of my alliance is scum, which I heavily lean to lurker. This is even more true if deselby is town.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, honestly.

Game behavior and lack of resistance to me pushing an alliance suggest scum is either not afriad of it or they are not in any position to do anything against it, such as lurking. Deselby is the only pony who seems against the concept, so if he is town I will near guarentee one Enmity Pony is in the inital lurker pool, most likely Sleuth/Parama given the entry to the game from Ellibereth. That or they are unafraid because scum is put in good position by the alliance.[/quote]
I see.

But there's also the possibility that scum just doesn't care about it. not that they're necessarily unafraid, just that the alliance doesn't matter to them?

[Voidedmafia]

guys
whatever
this doesn't matter anymore
What do you guys think about Neruz in relation to the points I brought up.

Kinda hard to do amongst all the multiposts. I'll look after my catch-up.

I don't see scum motivation, either. On it's own, it's more of a nulltell, but when I couple it with how he's been acting it seems to push him more into the town category.

Um...maybe the scum motivation is trying to avoid a lynch by being seen as a "bad" player rather than a "scummy" player?

But Thomith wasn't really in danger of being lynched at that point, IIRC. I mean, yeah, he had people gunning for him (Hiphop and EB come to mind), but Hiphop was the one near the chopping block (and I was starting to get that way).

[Evil Bullet]

did somepony say parasprite?

This is the most vile form of buddying.

[Evil Bullet]

Voided responding to every point against him in the way he is is also a form of flailing.

[Voidedmafia]

By Celestia you ponies!

There are not two scum teams. There is not a SK. There is no cult. There is no boogeyman, santa or

parasprite infestation.

lolwut? The hell is that?

VM not even twitching over being L-2 is odd enough

Should I twitch?

but then we have EB trying to move a wagon to Thomith

Hasn't he been stuck between me and Thomith for awhile now?

VM buddying/sheeping me very hard even after I explicitly said most of my hiphop case was based on reaction to town leader challenge,

So what if it is? The logic is still good.

I will tell you if VM is claiming or not sometime withing the next twelve hours. We will progress from there. Ponies off the VM wagon need to weigh in near instantly on if you think he is scum or not.

If I'm claiming or not? No one's said they want to hammer me yet, as far as I can tell.

Voided responding to every point against him in the way he is is also a form of flailing.

How so?

[Beck]

did somepony say parasprite?

This is the most vile form of buddying.

Or it's somebody who wanted to make a joke.

[Voidedmafia]

WV: I already did when you asked the first time. Or do you want me to go in-depth?

[Beck]

Leave tomorrow morning, I'll try and read/post once a day if possible.

[Evil Bullet]

did somepony say parasprite?

This is the most vile form of buddying.

Or it's somebody who wanted to make a joke.

All posts lean in a certain direction. Even the ones that aren't intentionally serious.

Voided responding to every point against him in the way he is is also a form of flailing.

How so?

You are desperate for acceptance and survival and you're not bothering to look for scum anymore.