Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Llamarble]

I AM HERE AND I AM TOWN.
READ COMING THIS EVENING.
TOTALLY-SKIMMED-SCUMREAD: VOIDEDMAFIA

Are there hydras and if so who of?

[Llamarble]

UNVOTE:
Also let me catch up, I may want to tell people to lynch somebody else etc.
Rainbow seems like a certain someone I've played with before.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, I'd have liked to hear a claim. Also actually catch up.
I read VM's ISO and it wasn't obv either way on first pass.
Some scummy stuff, but long in the way that scum often don't talk that much.

Ah Neruz is clearly scum. So there's that.
I'll try to read others but my startup company is in ADGOFPWS mode so I mostly just have an hour or so each weeknight for the moment.

[Llamarble]

That's not why Neruz is scum, though it is A reason.
The reason is his ISO.
But yeah scum have been doing the "I'll act blatantly anti-town for the balls-points and accomplishing anti-town goals directly" thing a lot lately.

[Llamarble]

Thomith is bussing Neruz.
Scum FoS each other and stuff early game. And these last couple posts.

So that's 2.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Neruz

We'll See, mr. Thomith, we'll see.

[Llamarble]

I don't want this to be a quicklynch either.
I haven't even looked at like 2/3 of the players yet.
I will absolutely look at the rest tonight though since there are only a few days until deadline.

[Llamarble]

Okay I am here to do my reread. WHEEE

[Llamarble]

I'm on page 7.
Is Beck still obvscum later?

[Llamarble]

unvote Vote: Neruz

Idk why this wagon happened. Someone explain before thread lock.

WHAT.
I AM NOT DONE.
WHY DID YOU HAMMER IT'S NOT LIKE THIS LYNCH WAS EVEN VAGUELY CONFIRMED?

[Llamarble]

DON'T YOU DON'T EVEN START ME, SCUMBAG.
IF YOU'RE SO SURE NERUZ IS TOWN THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO

BLAME

PEOPLE, WHAT IN THE #*J(#%&*% ARE YOU DOING HAMMERING HIM?

[Llamarble]

NERUZ REACTION SOUNDS LIKE SCUM THOUGH.

[Llamarble]

OKAY PONY IS TOWN.

AND YES NERUZ, WE CAN HAVE THE VIG SHOOT YOUR BULLETBUDDY AND THEN WE CAN LYNCH YOUR BECKBUDDY TOMORROW.

[Llamarble]

Wifom carpet bomb. Twilight is a very good time for gaining reads.

[Llamarble]

Sure, maybe you are town then. Bullet's scum though. That hammer was atrocious.
Bullet and Beck.
And scum says LOOK CLOSELY AT X WIFOMWIFOMWIFOM all the time anyway.
I'm not going to argue with you whether you're scum right now though 'cause I'm still only on page 10.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, he's pretty much confirmed scum right now.
Town just don't hammer townreads FOR NO GOOD REASON.

[Llamarble]

Oh you people and your fakehammers.
This would have been the second time I've replaced in and then had somebody hammer before I got through my reading-process.
I'm going to go back to actually reading now.

[Llamarble]

Oh Elli I do think it's Planar Relation Pony. But at least for now I think whatever manner of pony it is is town.

[Llamarble]

RD is a good player regardless which pony it actually is. So is Ellibereth.
And I like what I see from both so far but I haven't even begun my ISO phase.
If you guys can agree I may just sheep you since I don't think I have time to get through my reading process and have actual good reads before deadline given my work situation.

Scum instinctively avoid dueling town leaders though, which means you either have no idea who they are or are town (or both but moot).

He also didn't actually hammer unless I miscounted.
Elli voted twice along the way.

[Llamarble]

Er pronounsfuck.
I would be sheeping Elli/Rainbow. Whee captain Kirk riding a pony into battle wearing a fancy black coat and hat mental image.

EB is the willing-to-quarrel-with-powers-that-be-guy. I actually think he's town now. Ha. Unless that really was a hammer.

[Llamarble]

Ah, EB contains EPM who would know not to poke too hard at Elli/Rainbow.
Similar thing goes for Beck early game "I hate how everybody sheeps Parama 'cause he's awesome as town and then sometimes he's scum and town loses"
I think I may be working my way back toward Neruz/Voided or something.

[Llamarble]

Oh I guess I did miscount.
Bleh.
I still have a long ways to go before any kind of read I'm confident in.
Except EB cause he claimed scum yaddiyaddi.

[Llamarble]

Elli, presumably.

[Llamarble]

I actually went to bed, then as I was lying down to sleep I realized EB is going to try and use EPM's Into Africa moronD1hammer as town as metadefense here.
BUT IN THAT GAME HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT SILAVOR WAS SCUM. AND HE DIDN'T GET LYNCHED FOR THAT HAMMER.
NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY HE THOUGHT HE COULD GET AWAY WITH QHING HERE, WHICH WAS KIND OF THE MISSING PIECE.
(reminds me of why I thought I could get away with QHing a townread in an ongoing-but-I'm-dead scumgame)
SO YEAH HE DIES EVEN HARDER TOMORROW.

[Llamarble]

Llamarble's faking concern all over the place. Excessive use of allcaps when it's not really in his meta is a good tell.

I can assure you there was plenty of leftshift in don't get slapped in the face by a fish mafia when Ranmaru hammered without reading anything while I was still reading up on replacing in. And even he didn't think the guy he was lynching was town.

VOTE: Evil Bullet
DIE

[Llamarble]

Counterclaim makes me a happy pony.
And yeah scum almost always claim power D1, though that's gradually becoming less true.

[Llamarble]

I actually find counterclaiming in this situation a little weird.
Bullet was going to get lynched anyway, so why out yourself? I think you had the clout to force the lynch through without extra info.
So I have slight rainbow + Bullet vibes now, but Bullet's still clearly scum in any case so w/e.

And we don't need rainbow to clarify things any further.
It's lynchtime.

Voided remains scum. BTW.

[Llamarble]

I've been in your shoes. They were scum shoes. I made exactly the same argument you are trying to make.
And there are many reasons for scum to do what you did. Blatantly acting anti-town yields balls-points and plays directly to your win condition.
You might have been concerned town would recover its senses and lynch scum and wanted to lock in a townlynch with a juicy wagon for constructing future mislynches before I completed my reread and started smashing things around.
There is NO reason to do what you did as town. I cannot fathom doing that as town. I HAVE DONE what you did as scum.
Once again,
DIE

[Llamarble]

I felt kind of like you automatically went onto the wagon that followed after yours.
And then weren't as CHARGE on EB, but I need to finish my read-process anyway.

Is silverbullet good (or just arrogant)?
Cause I don't see EPM as having ego about his reads accuracy compared to any of the ponies or Elli.

But yeah I'm happy to complete my catch up tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

^ addressed to voided.

[Llamarble]

Well I still hold high hopes for a scumflip.
But yeah I'll have enough time to get real reads game-tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

Beck, if we never lynched claimed PRs D1 town winning percentage would be SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER than lynching without claim because it would be impossible to lynch scum D1.
Even night jailkeeper is rather a feeble role anyway. Setup speculation makes me think it's unlikely to be town. Counterclaim makes me think it's VERY unlikely to be town.
EB is still almost certainly the right lynch today, though now I'll actually get to do my readthrough.

And by the way, as scum I ALWAYS say I was town in case something happens and I don't actually die after being hammered.
I do think Neruz is likely town though.
The way people were eager to get off voided onto him means voided lynch isn't bad at all either and is likely what I want tomorrow, but again I have serious reading to do.

[Llamarble]

I am somewhere between neutral and pro-Rainbow-fullclaiming right now.
It's significantly in our favor if she's scum, and scum already know she's some kind of interesting thing so it probably doesn't hurt us much if she's town.
I do doubt she's scum though unless EB also is, since scum don't CC / 1v1 town D1 very often.
Especially good townleadery scum who would expect to last a long time.
And I'm just a bit concerned she'll claim bulletproof and we'll miss out on a nokill/conftown.
And if she claims doctor scum will kill her 100%...
Hm.

[Llamarble]

Hm, 'my role makes multiscums unlikely' + 'my role makes an even night jailkeeper unlikely' = ???
I guess I am confused enough by that that having her fullclaim might make sense.
Is that what you mean?

[Llamarble]

I'm not at all convinced EB's town, though I need to read more and hooray will actually get time to!
I will do my DEEPANALYSIS process probably tomorrow night. Or I may start tonight.

[Llamarble]

Where I'm at currently (and rather tentatively):
Town:
Meeeee

Townish:
Neruz
Thomith
Elli
RD

Scummy:
Beck
Voided
EB


WV could be scum. I'll get there.

[Llamarble]

And I totally know what role Rainbow is. Though only because I have played with the role before, and it makes complete sense as to why Rainbow shouldn't claim. And Rainbow should not claim.

So should we lynch EB in your opinion?

[Llamarble]

Blah Implosion ISO started out scummy but didn't end scumawesomely so I don't get to stop reading and lynch them.
We're lynching voided again? Why not Bullet? I guess I'll reread Bullett argghbedtime

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Evil Bullet
My vote is probably here anyway, but I want his blood more than I want Voided's.
The reason he hammered a townread as scum was that he wanted to secure a townlynch and go focus on his other game.
And he thought he'd be able to get away with it because WIFOM shenanigans.
And he prides himself on 'not being stupid scum.' I don't think he would've caved in and gave up alignment after thinking he was hammered.
Especially since I think he probably looked carefully and realized he wasn't.
AND HIS ROLE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE WITH PONY.
Why on earth aren't we lynching him?

Even if it's just 50/50 that is ABSOLUTELY worth it.
And the role he claimed COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE LESS PROVEABLE OR LESS LIKELY TO GET COUNTERCLAIMED (HEH).

[Llamarble]

Also this BECK SLIPPED WHEE is bull even if Beck's scum.

[Llamarble]

Although VM with this 'please lay out your precise case against me' stuff isn't great either.
He could be high-post-volume-scum.

[Llamarble]

Scum and post volume stopped having any notable correlation a long time ago.

SHOW ME THE SCIENCE AND I'LL BELIEVE YOU

But yeah activity levels are pretty even across this game.
You can still die I think.

[Llamarble]

You know Beck, we CAN lynch EBscum today...

[Llamarble]

5 days is plenty of time to assemble a wagon.

[Llamarble]

Odd vig + even jailkeeper has positive synergy for town (JK interferes with vig so it's beneficial for them to go on different nights).
That and yesterday's scumlynch make me much less bullet-lynch-happy.
I suspect either WV or Banshee was the bussing scum.
And any of Neruz/Hiphop/Implosion could be the offwagon scum. Though there was that hiphop thing which was bizarre and may have made him town?

RD counterclaiming EB is suspicious ish now but not really considering lynchdrive.

I need to go look for evidence of daytalk.

Also we'e going to be on the records page for third largest D1 ever in a mini!

[Llamarble]

BWAHAHAHA YES YES
VOTE: WEIRDVOIGTS

[Llamarble]

Pretty sure Thomith is obvtown.

[Llamarble]

I can buy Implosion + WV.

[Llamarble]

weirdvoigts is probably town. 55 indicates genuine scumhunting, especially with how Thomith has been acting. Their other posts have also felt generally genuine.

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.

Those are the four possible motivations I can think of. As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

There are four possible motivations, WV, for you pushing a lynch on Thomith:
1. You are scum pushing a townie to get a mislynch.
2. You are scum pushing a buddy to get towncred from a bus.
3. You are scum tunneling on a townie so that you don't have to focus on too many other people.
4. You are town legitimately pushing on someone you think is scum.

Apply the above argument to, well...

every single person in this game.

I guess everyone in this game is probable scum. Oh, wait...

You know that the majority of players possess the Town Win Condition.

Your argument is flawed because just because there are more possible scum motivations than town motivations, it doesn't mean that all four motivations are equally likely. The town motivation is by far more likely than any of the other three

simply by virtue of there being more town than nontown in this game.

Talk about cults is stupid. It was sarcastic to begin with, I'm pretty sure.

Voidedmafia - somewhere between null leaning town and town.
weirdvoigts - don't know. mixed feelings at this point.

Aw yeah.

[Llamarble]

Banshee/WV/Imp contains at least one scum and I would not be at all surprised by 2.
Pretty sure there's nobody else I'd be interested in lynching today.

Not seeing benefits of massclaim unless you think some kind of awesome strategy can be devised.

I feel like EB claim is pretty legit already.

[Llamarble]

Scum had daytalk D1. I feel like if I do a full reread that knowledge will yield a scumbag, but OH GAWD 49 PAGES.

[Llamarble]

Alright.
I'm Vanilla.
I expect a good reason for this.

[Llamarble]

WV can go next. Bansheescum, we're now up to 4 claimed roles, which is starting to feel like a lot.
That's why I want to just go ahead; I had EB as somewhat role-cleared but if he's actually role-obvscum I want to know.
Scum already know enough to direct their NKs etc.

[Llamarble]

Massclaim is better than 3 different softclaims + even night JK + oddnightvig, one of which is almost definitely scum by virtue of waytoomanynamedroles.
Lets do the claims and figure out which is scum and lynch them.
Enough stuff has been claimed for scum to play nightgame optimally.
Now lets claim enough stuff for town to play optimally too.

[Llamarble]

It's weirdvoigt's turn to claim

I think it's some combo of him Implosion and Banshee.
Banshee seems like he may just be hurricane derpface and not scum, but I do need to read more.

[Llamarble]

I suppose WV + Bullet may make sense.
I think there are too many claimed things for all of them to be town right now, but that's why I want massclaim.

[Llamarble]

What made EB town for you between yesterday and today?

Was it the fact he survived overnight despite his claim?
How did that work, exactly?

Odd vig + even jailkeeper has positive synergy for town (JK interferes with vig so it's beneficial for them to go on different nights).
That and yesterday's scumlynch make me much less bullet-lynch-happy.

[Llamarble]

I AM HERE AND I AM TOWN.
READ COMING THIS EVENING.

TOTALLY-SKIMMED

-SCUMREAD: VOIDEDMAFIA

Are there hydras and if so who of?

[Llamarble]

Hrm, there are a lot of ponies. I'm not confident I've correctly IDed Rainbow anymore, but w/e.
I skimmed, and my first impression was that Voided was scum.
He wasn't obvious scum though, especially due to the amount of effort he seemed to be putting in.

I make cases when I'm ready to lynch people or want to point out something specific.

[Llamarble]

We are massclaiming, so RD will claim eventually.
We have 3 weird softclaimed PRs, an even night Jailkeeper, and a dead odd night vig.
That feels like too much power, so I think there's a good chance massclaiming will catch us a scumbag.
At worst it will help a lot with figuring out what's going on / getting better reads.

[Llamarble]

Also Banshee for all your 'MAKE A CASE AGAINST ME I DEMAND IT CASES ARE THE NECTAR OF THE MODS' you sure did vote Voided much of D1 without ever at any point doing anything to push others to vote him.

Oh look I made a case.

[Llamarble]

Yes.
You voted VM, which accomplishes scumgoal of appearing to want to eliminate scum.
But then you did NOTHING to convince anybody else to vote with you (and even attacked other people), giving buddy maximum opportunity to survive.

Come lynchtime, town tend to, you know, push on who they most think is scum and want to lynch because they actually want the person they're voting to die.

[Llamarble]

Yeah I wasn't pro-massclaim until two more people softclaimed, and then I thought okay let's just go through with this.
Elli is right though.

@Banshee: I could imagine myself doing something like that, yes.

[Llamarble]

Haha, I suppose I'd play. We can communicate roles by "the godfather is the person who Xed with me in obscure previous game Y" or somesuch.

We could be on our way to a mini postcount record, after all.

[Llamarble]

Okay. Who do you want to have claim next? I recommend Implosion or one of the softclaimers.

[Llamarble]

We are getting fullclaims from everyone today.
Mass softclaim is just not helpful.
You can fullclaim now and popcorn to RD to have RD fullclaim next, if you're so curious.

[Llamarble]

Ah you want hiphop next. That is also fine.

[Llamarble]

Ooooh, Llamarble, them's pretty tough words. Why aren't you voting me if you're so sure I'm scum?

Go ahead, I'd love to be confirmed and have people read over exactly what I said here. Do it!

Wouldn't it be scary if it got up to FIVE claimed roles and one turned out to be an odd-night investigator? Wooooo.... spooky!

Vanilla Town.

Elli or Rainbow. Don't care which. Someone else can choose, I'm going to sleep

WHAT.
KILL IT WITH FIRE?

I for one advocated massclaim partially because of Banshee's odd-night-investigator softclaim.

[Llamarble]

Don't sarcasm about these things as town.

[Llamarble]

I already claimed VT awhile ago.

[Llamarble]

The other ????? was Banshee who softclaimed and then didn't actually claim odd night investigative power.
Perhaps mafia odd night tracker or somesuch but will think later.

Thomith's all that has to happen, and Implosion's fullclaim.

[Llamarble]

Why's bodyguard incompatible with multiscums, out of curiousity?

[Llamarble]

I think I found a scumbag. Let's get this claiming done with.

[Llamarble]

Okay implosion, we need you to claim now so we can figure out whether we have too many PRs claimed or not etc.

[Llamarble]

While we think there's a scum in the claimed PRs, we also KNOW there's scum in the VTs, so I think we get rid of the VTscum first due to not-wanting-to-lynch-town-power etc.
Make sense?
Also it's not at all IMPOSSIBLE for all those roles to be town considering no top tier (cops doctors masons or full vigs / JKs / JOATs) power.
& scum had daytalk.
I think Neruz is scum.
Fake hammer shenanigans are exactly the sort of thing scum are more likely to coordinate with a QT.

VOTE: Neruz

[Llamarble]

I'll reread Thomith, but right now I've got Neruz or perhaps WV with a chance of Banshee on my lynch forecast for today.
Elli has achieved even more AWESCUM than usual if he's guilty.

[Llamarble]

What misstatements?

I think Hiphop's probtown by watcher-ness, but yeah I haven't deepread him.

We're lynching VTs until we get a scumbag though anyway.

[Llamarble]

I remembered you as softclaiming, so when you claimed VT I was like OKAY DIE NOW.
Then it wasn't as clear and I was extremely annoyed with you for ambiguous-half-softclaiming and told you not to do it anymore.

I misremembered who all the softclaims came from that made me claim originally, but when you did too it certainly was added to 'reasons massclaiming is a good idea' in my mind.
I obviously wouldn't lie about that even as scum, so you're being stupid.

[Llamarble]

Lying's only "one of the most reliable scumtells" when it isn't OBVIOUS that the person simply made a mistake.

3 minutes is long enough to realize that the post I had recorded mentally as a softclaim may have been poorly timed sarcasm instead.

Yeah Evil's not roleblockable so he probably goes on Imp, and Hip watches Evil and rainbow BGs hip. Or something.


10 people left
lynch -> 9
Kill on Rainbow -> 8
lynch -> 7
Kill on hiphop -> 6
lynch -> 5
kill on evil -> 4
Lynch -> 3
So we can make scum kill all the claimed PRs in a row if they want to get rid of implosion depending what power scum have.
And we can SHENANIGANS to make scum have to go through probability hoops to actually accomplish that kill-list.
Basically we should only lynch VTs.

[Llamarble]

TABLED FOR NOW:
EB
Rainbow
Hiphop

TOWN:
Implosion
Llama
Ellibereth

Probtown:
Thomith

Possiblescum:
Banshee

SCUM:
Neruz
Weirdvoigts

[Llamarble]

I supported massclaim because there were softclaims everywhere.
I forgot that yours was not one of the three before massclaim but rather came during it.
Unfortunately I think you're enough of a derp not to lynch you for pushing this BS.

[Llamarble]

WV can go next. Bansheescum, we're now up to 4 claimed roles, which is starting to feel like a lot.
That's why I want to just go ahead; I had EB as somewhat role-cleared but if he's actually role-obvscum I want to know.
Scum already know enough to direct their NKs etc.

[Llamarble]

Elli, it is stupid. My position on the argument is that it is stupid.

[Llamarble]

He wants to lynch me because I said his softclaim was a reason I approved of massclaim, when on looking back it was other peoples' softclaims and his came later.

[Llamarble]

Scum in the PRs isn't 100% guaranteed if scum have awesome powers of their own.
I definitely think we find the VT scum first.

[Llamarble]

Rainbow, what about Neruz?
Agreed on WV though.

Also why me?

[Llamarble]

You never really did anything to get VM lynched. You keep calling him scum but keep ending up on the counter wagons. Plus I can really see a you-hiphop team which has the ol' hackles up.

True enough on the I thought he was a pretty likely scum but didn't end up on his wagon thing.
I'm still town though.
And I certainly know enough to stay away from FoS buddy vote townie.
Also I would totally have coached him well enough to keep him from getting lynched.

Bodyguard + IC feels around (slightly less than) mason-strength
odd vig + even JK is about (slightly more than) JOAT strength
Watcher is watcher.

My face wouldn't explode if all that stuff was town, particularly if scum is decently powered up (and we know they have daytalk at minimum).

[Llamarble]

What was the thing from the other game? Or was it ongoing or something?

[Llamarble]

There aren't 3 scum left. Hell no. That's 3 mislynches and 4 lynches to win.
Anytime you need more scumlynches than townlynches you're not being fair without MASSIVE power, which we don't have.

Grey and I played together recently in a game with:
Town tracker
Town 1 shot tracker (yes 2 trackers)
Town 1 shot jailkeeper
Town 1 shot vig
Town 1 shot cop
5 VTs
Mafia goon
Mafia 1 shot watcher
Mafia rolecop

Compared to that, we're fine here if all our PRs are town.

[Llamarble]

That setup had scum daytalk by the way.

[Llamarble]

You know, if I was scum with Hiphop I'd absolutely be advocating "KILL THE VT SCUM FIRST" and then relying on my unlynchability to win.
I can see your concern.
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Llamarble]

Uh, If they shoot the watcher and you die does the watcher see who they shot?
1shot cop is of order IC strength
tracker is perhaps a bit better than watcher
odd/even vigJK is stronger than 1shots, but not hugely so.
1shottracker isn't really outclassed by bodyguard.

Regardless, it's obvious there's a VT scumbag.
We should get that one first and see what it flips.
Scum will narrow down the PR pool for us in all likelihood anyway.

[Llamarble]

Er, who fired the shot

[Llamarble]

I think we've gotten to the point of agreeing to lynch VTs until we find scum, so that leaves us out of theory-ville for now.

I don't get your point about how we should be scared of you if you're scum. You are advocating killing from the VT pool first, even more than anyone else since you're arguing that there are no scum in the PR pool. So you're saying that if you were scum with hiphop you'd be... doing exactly what you're doing now?

Yup.
Lynching VTs is the right move though.
I just had the thought "man if I was scum with Hiphop this would be an awesome development" so I posted it.
LOOK AT ME I'M SO TRANSPARENT I WEAR MY HEART ON MY SLEEEVE.

[Llamarble]

I'm having trouble making up my mind between WV and Neruz.
Neruz has this I DO NOT TOLERATE STUPIDITY stuff and my experience with him is not of him being a derp.
Not being a derp is inconsistent with:
1. Not knowing 3 cults was unlikely
2. Not knowing Beck died
Which makes me think he faked that and is scum.
Also he was the fakehammer on Voided that led to Voided's wagon dissolving and then was not wagoning Voided when Voided died.
I can probably find more but yeah his blood needs to be on the menu.
VOTE: Neruz

[Llamarble]

And also RD after all HipHop's I think I know what RB is stuff don't you think he'd have NKed you as scum thinking you were an elite bodyguard?
I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Neruz Voided EB hammerderpchain was scum.

[Llamarble]

Your case on me is pretty entirely derped. RD's is way better. I'm still town though.
Keep tunneling on me and maybe I WILL lynch you.

[Llamarble]

Wait what mini had a 4 player scumteam? Was it nightless or somesuch?

[Llamarble]

I need to reread you. I need to reread everypony.
If you're scum with Neruz that means no scum in the PRs group, and while I think that's :possible: I doubt it.
This town is OVERLOADED with information. We have 60 pages and had like 4 or 5 wagons almost lynch yesterday.
Lynching for information at this point is RETARDED. Lynches are for making scum dead.
Scum say that stuff about 'lynch me it'll be lots of information' all the time though.

[Llamarble]

I actually am not leading town right now.
I don't have a YES THIS ONE WILL FLIP SCUM to push on yet.

[Llamarble]

Also, seriously, anyone who doesn't see how Thomith is incredibly scummy clearly hasn't been reading his posts, like, at all.

HAHAHA THAT WOULD BE ME.
BUT NOW HAS BEEN RECTIFIED
VOTE: THOMITH

[Llamarble]

A guilty is more powerful than an innocent.
By a huge margin.
Also the 1 shot cop semi-clears themselves WHILE clearing somebody else, which is just plain more than the IC does.

WV is "90% scum" but you are voting me? What.

[Llamarble]

Hahaha.
Yeah Thomith I think right now you wait for Elli to pass judgement.
I can assure you Elli isn't a derp.

[Llamarble]

Whoah I had no idea I was vote L - 1. Ha.
UNVOTE:
I do want to megaread before day ends this time.

[Llamarble]

Huh, Thomith did say he was at L - 1 and I totally ignored it.
I honestly have no idea how that happened.
I was assuming Thomith had 3 or 4 votes until Grey's count.

[Llamarble]

OK.
Did some metaing
VOTE: Thomith
Will still read more.

[Llamarble]

I'm voting you because you're scum.

[Llamarble]

I am pretty highly OMGUS-prone and lynch people who tunnel on me a lot.
They flip scum a lot too, which is nice.
I'm also accustomed to exerting a lot of influence over lynches.

I don't really get into FACE DESTROYING YOU MUST SHEEP ME gear until I'm pretty sure I've found scum though.

[Llamarble]

[Llamarble]

Useful:

Any player with a factional ability and a power granted by a role may not submit both in the same night unless they are the only remaining member of their team.

I'm going to read the game for awhile.

[Llamarble]

I've pretty completely convinced myself Banshee is town.
Moving on.

[Llamarble]

Elli is ENTIRELY town.
And he's usually hard to read so that's extra awesome.
Slowly I move on down the alphabet...

[Llamarble]

I'm having trouble making up my mind between WV and Neruz.
Neruz has this I DO NOT TOLERATE STUPIDITY stuff and my experience with him is not of him being a derp.
Not being a derp is inconsistent with:
1. Not knowing 3 cults was unlikely
2. Not knowing Beck died
Which makes me think he faked that and is scum.
Also he was the fakehammer on Voided that led to Voided's wagon dissolving and then was not wagoning Voided when Voided died.
I can probably find more but yeah his blood needs to be on the menu.
VOTE: Neruz

That stuff all still bothers me.
Neruz just isn't derpy enough to believe in 3 cults or to miss a nightkill.

[Llamarble]

I really had no idea you were at L-1 until Grey's VC.
I think I'd be more likely to be aware of how big a wagon is as scum, but mreh.

I usually casemake when I have very specific and strong points to make or when I'm really convinced I want to lynch a certain player.
So I'll get to casemaking on you if I get sure I want you dead.
But basically I read your ISO and it made sense as scum's ISO.
I looked at your meta and found examples of you being able to fake the things that had me thinking you were town before (high number of posts & caring / being pushy & other stuff).

[Llamarble]

The issue is that you had scummy stuff and townie stuff and the metaing made a lot of the townie stuff go away which tipped the scales scumward.

[Llamarble]

Meta is why you aren't town. Other stuff is why you're scum.
I'll casemake if I still want to lynch you once I've read everything.
Bothering me before then will result in more dancing thingies.

[Llamarble]

Scum did have daytalk, which makes me much more expecting-scum-to-know-hammers-weren't-real.
But yeah this is also a good direction to be going.
VOTE: WV

[Llamarble]

Hiphop + WV is an awesome feeling, but that makes BG + IC + half JK + half vig vs watcher encryptor ?
OK I buy that.

Yepyep
TOWN:
Llamarble
Implosion
Elli
Banshee
Rainbow

PROBTOWN:
EB
Thomith
Neruz

SCUM:
Weirdvoigts
Hiphop

[Llamarble]

I am Weirdvoigts' scumbuddy.

[Llamarble]

Also the answer to that point you made is Thomith kind of thought Voided would flip town but then got alarmed when attention shifted off him fastwise.

[Llamarble]

Giving scum a watcher in a game with an innocent child makes its own awesome kind of sense.
Town PRs have obvious target -> scum watches target -> Scum kills the PRs.
Grey used to play magic, I'll bet he loves synergy like that and the bodyguard - IC combo.

So yeah once we've eliminated the VT scum hiphop is definitely next.

[Llamarble]

I disagreed with massclaim until there were 873 softclaims and it needed to happen.

As for PR use, I think we have each of them flip a coin. If heads they protect Implosion.
Otherwise they do something else entirely of their choosing, even perhaps JK on RD or hiphop.

That way Implosion shouldn't die and scum don't get to rely on any particular thing happening.

If we do lynch scum today we should have EB target arbitrarily, RD BG implo, and hiphop watch EB.

[Llamarble]

I'm having trouble making up my mind between WV and Neruz.
Neruz has this I DO NOT TOLERATE STUPIDITY stuff and my experience with him is not of him being a derp.
Not being a derp is inconsistent with:
1. Not knowing 3 cults was unlikely
2. Not knowing Beck died
Which makes me think he faked that and is scum.
Also he was the fakehammer on Voided that led to Voided's wagon dissolving and then was not wagoning Voided when Voided died.
I can probably find more but yeah his blood needs to be on the menu.
VOTE: Neruz

All of this still holds.
If none of Neruz/Thomith/WV are scum I will be a deeply confused pony.

But on the other hand WV is FREE to bus hiphop right now because hiphop can't get lynched until the VT scum goes down.
So I still think WVscum.

[Llamarble]

Why aren't we lynching WV?

[Llamarble]

It's kind of depressing that the main reason people think i'm town is because i screwed up a bunch of times :X

I personally don't really get this since I think of you as sufficiently competent never to make those errors as town -> they're fake.
I felt like you were joking about the 3 cults thing and then people were "NERUZ IS A TOTAL DERP & THEREFORE TOWN" so you ran with it.
But mreh, WV is still more scum than you.
I greatly prefer WV lynch over others at this point.

[Llamarble]

Minds change, youngling. Yes they do.

[Llamarble]

Actually yeah that was pretty bad.
VOTE: Thomith

[Llamarble]

VOTE: WV
Actually attacking somebody for NOT voting you counterbalances "I know we said lynching X is a bad idea but I think I can attack X."

[Llamarble]

so minds change in the same bloody post? I'd love to hear the explanation on this one.

It was a catch up post.
Though really I wouldn't be stunned if EB is scum.
And I haven't reread ponies in a while and I think they might be somebody I think of as goodscum.

[Llamarble]

:yepyep:
I've played with bvoigtscum and he sounded more or less like here.
Also he and voided had sketchy D1 interactions.
And a whole bunch of the other ponies are town.

Town:
Llamarble
Implosion
Ellibereth

Probtown:
Banshee
Evil Bullet
Rainbow - I need to not let this one coast because the ponies are all very good at playing scum. Also would explain the Beckkill well.
Thomith

Scumsland:
Hiphop
Neruz

Scum:
Weirdvoigts

[Llamarble]

I use meta mostly to check if player X can fake their degree of townness in the current game I'm playing.
Bvoigt can. Thomith can too.

[Llamarble]

:ticktock:
I don't find Thomith scum unbelievable, but right now I just want WV to die.
I think if there is a PR scum then scum will shoot at VTs (assuming we protect Implosion) to avoid making it obvious which PR is scum.
So using one or two protections on VTs is an interesting option.

[Llamarble]

If there's a scum in the PRs, we want the scum shooting the other PRs to narrow it down / possibly get caught.
I therefore expect them to not do that.
My vote was on EB near the end of the day because YOU counterclaimed him AND he hammered a townread and other notable stuff I don't recall too well.
You probably think I'm town because I'm trying to figure out who scum are / stomping around pushing on things. This is a good reason.

[Llamarble]

My recent Rainbow suspicion came up when I was looking at Beck to see who might've killed him and Rainbow made some sense because of their interaction.
I do think Rainbow is town though.
If anything suddenly bringing up old things should show I'm still looking through the whole game trying to figure stuff out.

[Llamarble]

I've certainly been aware that ponies are good scum throughout; it was relevant at this time because I was reminding myself to be wary / periodically reread them.

[Llamarble]

Yeah, if IC claims D1 with a town watcher and BG, and scum try to kill the IC they will fail and lose a guy, then potentially fail again and lose another guy if the watcher played well & lynched the NKing scum without claiming.

[Llamarble]

Er they wouldn't fail a second time, but they'd lose 2 scum killing off the IC + BG.
Not to mention the odd night vig may be our strongest PR overall.

Maybe we should just lynch hiphop today...

[Llamarble]

Why not Hiphop + WV? That makes more sense to me than anything else does right now.

[Llamarble]

Also why am I "the best partner for hiphop?"

[Llamarble]

Huh, well you're probably NOT Planar Relation pony then because you'd have been wary of pairing analysis clearing me after whiteflag mafia. Heh.
I remain curious what about my posting has been bothering you.

Also that list seems to be bringing you pretty much to where I am except Banshee's town and EB may be scum.
Neruz needs a good wagonin' at some point. His posting seriously bothers me compared to what it looked like in my game with town-him.
Tangibles-wise, he "QHed" voided when voidedlynch seemed inevitable and then didn't end up voting to lynch him afterward.
Mastin-scum fakehammered a buddy hoping to shake things up in recently completed Flash mafia.

All the "Neruz is a derp and forgot Beck was dead, thought there were 3 cult recruiters, and acted town after being fakehammered" is DUMB.
Neruz is competent enough that he is VERY unlikely to have actually thought those things.
I find him deciding to pretend he wasn't joking very possible after people writing him off as town for it.
And I think I've forgotten who I NKed as scum before though I doubt it's made it into any of my posts.
Certainly I don't forget who's been NKed as town, because that's NEW information.
Scum are more likely to forget new alignment knowledge because they ALREADY were aware of it.

Pony, go read another Neruz game or something.
He's just not the type of player to go OH WHY AREN'T THERE 3 CULTS HERPADERPZILLLA.

Also Beck was steadfastly opposed to his continued existence.
Neruzscum makes sense with Voided, makes sense with Beckkill, makes sense with his posting...
I think I just convinced myself to lynch him today, but I'll reread later to make sure.
VOTE: Neruz

[Llamarble]

Neruz hardly mentioned Voided or Hiphop D1 except to call hiphop town and drop a "hammer" on voided.

[Llamarble]

Hiphop's more invisible than Voided in Neruz's ISO and doesn't appear aside from a couple "Hiphop's town whee!"s.
Neruz what do you think of hiphop now?

Not many of those posts with voided in them are very stompy/notable/important etc.
Voided's name appears but real 'interaction' only happens in a couple of them.

But now that you point them out:
Scum RVS each other slightly more often than random because they do it closer to 50% than 25%
Which makes RVS voting for scum a decent scumtell.

I'll never vote voided except 24 hours remain blah blah
-> trigger finger itchy claim or I'll hammer
-> fakehammer
-> vote somebody else
Is interesting.

VOTE THOMITH FOS GUY WHO IS VOTING THOMITH FOR THE SAME REASON I AM... ???
Sounds Fos scumbuddy vote townie to me.

Also Neruz, it's become pretty clear that Thomith <3s nitpicking minor stuff like mind-changes.
I'm pretty sure he does that as town too. So why are you HE MUST DIE again? (that seemed to be your reason previously)

And finally "WTF ARE YOU DOING NOT ON VOIDED'S COUNTERWAGON A@GDSRD"

[Llamarble]

I'm still not entirely made-up-mind between WV & Neruz, and would appreciate some more thoughts about which one will flip scum.

[Llamarble]

WV is kinda pulling an operation lurk the wagon away.

[Llamarble]

Yes, I agree RD always always protects implosion.
RD's plan sounds good in general.

[Llamarble]

hmm, Banshee's trying too hard to be scum, assuming our scum are smart, which is probably a valid assumption given they managed to ident Beck as a PR worth shooting, they're probably trying to avoid my wagon.

Implosion's vote looks pretty terrible, but even i have difficulty with the idea that scum would wilingly place the fourth vote on a wagon with the reasoning "lets see what happens".

OH COME ON.
Really?

EB, I can confirm for you that Neruz can think straight and make pretty insightful posts. The meta I'm going off of is This. He was abrasive and insulting in that game too (uses "stupid" 27 times in that ISO and "idiot" 4 times) but he was figuring stuff out and ended up threatening scum enough that they NKed him.

He's paying enough attention to this game that he's saying things that make sense about posting, but he's saying absurd things in view of gamestate.
That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Weirdvoigts just made me seriously want to activate OMGUS mode and lynch him instead though.

[Llamarble]

That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Pretty much entirely, i'm reading and responding to immediate posts around the ones i make but i keep forgetting the actual game state in relation to roles and stuff.

I feel like awareness of gamestate is super important for being able to scumhunt sensibly. And it's WAY easier to keep track of gamestate than to deepread everyone's posts... Blah.

I was hoping you'd flail some like in exe and make it easier to read you.

WV's latest post is flat out lousy.

Maybe we actually do just lynch hiphop though.


Also in mafia.exe Neruz displayed clear understanding of the guidelines for normal games.
I still find it virtually impossible to believe he'd think 3 cults was plausible.

[Llamarble]

Formatting is busted because I just copypasted from a locked thread, but:

Paranoid-gun owner is not a role allowed in normal games.


This is just flat out wrong.

#
Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

* Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
* Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
* Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
* Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
* Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
* Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
* Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).

...

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.


One-Shot and Paranoid Gun Owner do not violate any of those rules. The fact that you managed to link to the wiki page in question and still get it wrong is pretty impressively bad.

And Krazy, if you thought GreyICE's claim was impossible in the ruleset, why didn't you, oh i don't know, call him out on it instead of trying to hold it back like some kind of trump card?

Seriously, every post you make makes you look worse and worse.

...

Also also; in Normal games there is allowed be one new or variant role, however i cannot see how PGO would be considered either 'new' or 'variant' as it's a very well known role, even if it was considered 'new', normal games can still have one new role in them.

Some of the gaffes from this game just don't feel compatible with this.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Hiphop
Most likely to be scum.
EB can announce his target in the event of a hiphopscumflip before night.
If a kill still happens, that player is confirmed town.

My recommendation on Hiphopscumflip is to block weirdvoigts.
We're on evens right now so if scum give up a kill to cause a VT mislynch, we haven't lost anything at all.

[Llamarble]

At this point I think the scumteam is hiphop + WV.
But basically right now pretty much everybody is in agreement that hiphop is scum.
If we're wrong, that assumption is going to seriously screw with our ability to read other players well.
So we may as well test it now.

If I were scum I'd NK VTs and let the town lynch a PR or two for me anyway, so seeing a watcher-guilty isn't too likely anyway.

[Llamarble]

I disagree with you there, but I think they're both town so w/e.
Scum are one of Hiphop + EB + one of WV / Neruz/ Thomith.
And I also don't think Thomith or EB are scum.

[Llamarble]

I suppose EB from your perspective hiphop is even more likely to be scum whereas the rest of us see some chance of him being town and you being scum.
So yepyep Join Us hehehe.

Banshee, my point was that we're probably going to lynch hiphop at some point, and if he's town he's not very likely to hand us a scumbag.
In general it's best to do lynches that are almost certain to happen first.

[Llamarble]

Everybody's next post should be either a hiphop vote or a reason why they want to lynch somebody else instead.

[Llamarble]

Hiphop's role damningly makes him scum.
Hiphop's posting makes him scum.
Possible buddies are weirdvoigts and Thomith.
Let's do this.
EB should be voting Hiphop because he's practically 1v1 with him anyway.
Various other people need to put their money in their mouths.
And trying to lynch his buddies is going to lead us to really bad places if he isn't scum anyway.

[Llamarble]

No. Let's just lynch him and see what he flips.

[Llamarble]

Yes, because he's scum. Why do you care what I think of YOU as opposed to whether he is scum?

[Llamarble]

That's stupid.
You need to die at some point.
Maybe after endgame my character will push yours off a ski lift.

[Llamarble]

[Llamarble]

Oh well, we don't need Thomith to lynch hiphop.
Sane people want to help make this happen?

Implosion is on already
I am on already
EB should be on this because he is basically 1v1 with hiphop anyway
WV thinks I'm bussing + already said he wants a hiphop lynch
RD & Elli just want somebody to die.

So that's 6.
Also Neruz / Banshee are reasonable and might decide to join in too.

[Llamarble]

When an argument is as profoundly correct as Elli's Lima Bean, sheeping is mandatory.

[Llamarble]

Why oh why were you not vigged...

[Llamarble]

Because I don't need your vote.
The rest of us are going to lynch hiphop.
And your question is silly.

[Llamarble]

RD, I hope you realize your company on this wagon is obvscum hiphop, obvbuddy WV, and OMGDERPFACEXTREME Thomith.

Ok.
I am not willing to say that hiphop is obviously town. Infact I still have serious doubts regarding that pony, BUT if he is town, him being alive essentially ends the game for scum.

WTF is this. WTF.
YOU KNOW there isn't BG + oddvig + IC + watcher + evenJK.
That would be PRETTY RIDICULOUS.
So EB & hiphop are ALREADY 1v1.
A few days from now, or maybe even TONIGHT, RD will turn up dead, and hiphop will say WELL GOLLY I GOT ROLEBLOCKED.
Who do you lynch? OF WHAT BENEFIT WAS LEAVING HIPHOP SCUM (OR HIPHOP TOWN) ALIVE?

AND YES I HAVE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT IDEAS AND DONE :A LOT: OF READING. BECAUSE I'M TOWN.
YOU KNOW I COULD DO MUCH, MUCH LESS WORK AND NOT GET LYNCHED.
I COULD LYNCH ONE OF THE FIRST 3 GUYS I RAN UP INSTEAD OF THINKING MORE AND MOVING ONTO ANOTHER WAGON.

ALSO HIPHOP IS OBVSCUM AND I WILL GO AHEAD AND DEMONSTRATE THIS NOW BECAUSE YOU SUDDENLY WENT FULL RETARD.

[Llamarble]

WHY HIPHOP DIES:
1. I was towntown in hiphop's book until I decided to lynch him and had a couple votes on me and am pretty much the only person other than him who might get lynched.
Then suddenly FORGET EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT LEADERSHIP BEING A TOWNTELL LLAMA'S A HIJACKER.

2. Tunneling Thomith the entire game. In general hiphop's reads do not show the characteristic flux of townie-trying-to-solve-game reads.
HE HAS HAD HIS VOTE ON THOMITH LITERALLY THE ENTIRE GAME WITH A BRIEF UNVOTE AT SOME POINT.
People just get put into buckets and he makes cases why they go in those buckets as opposed to trying to readjust who goes in which bucket based on new knowledge.
His interaction with Thomith is more about arguing with thomith and not very I have interesting insight: Thomith's posts reveal scum motivation in manner X.
In general, his posting is a lot of pokes and not a lot of I AM PURSUING NEW LEADS at all.

Scum killed Beck, who RD explicitly found somewhat scummy and consequently would never bodyguard.
Also not killing RD leaves both halves of the "1v1" between RD / EB alive to try and lynch each other and conveniently not lynch hiphop yet.
And he did not catch any mafia action watching, which also slightly reduces the odds he's town.

Random thing:

Your right, I am done arguing with you. There is no use arguing with scum, when people ought to see it by now.

What is this doing on page 3?? I'm done arguing with you you're scum doesn't set in until reads are pretty settled. And then he argues with Thomith for the rest of the game anyway.


I'm sure there's much much more good stuff and I'll go find it and trot it out if people need more motivation.
Points 1 and 2 should probably be sufficient on their own though. Especially 2. Hiphop and Weirdvoigts are the players I see the least gamesolving effort from. I read based off who is trying to figure the game out (which may be why I'm awful at catching serial killers & multiscums who are trying to find other scums).

[Llamarble]

WHY HIPHOP DIES:
1. I was towntown in hiphop's book until I decided to lynch him and had a couple votes on me and am pretty much the only person other than him who might get lynched.
Then suddenly FORGET EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT LEADERSHIP BEING A TOWNTELL LLAMA'S A HIJACKER.

2. Tunneling Thomith the entire game. In general hiphop's reads do not show the characteristic flux of townie-trying-to-solve-game reads.
HE HAS HAD HIS VOTE ON THOMITH LITERALLY THE ENTIRE GAME WITH A BRIEF UNVOTE AT SOME POINT.
People just get put into buckets and he makes cases why they go in those buckets as opposed to trying to readjust who goes in which bucket based on new knowledge.
His interaction with Thomith is more about arguing with thomith and not very I have interesting insight: Thomith's posts reveal scum motivation in manner X.
In general, his posting is a lot of pokes and not a lot of I AM PURSUING NEW LEADS at all.

Scum killed Beck, who RD explicitly found somewhat scummy and consequently would never bodyguard.
Also not killing RD leaves both halves of the "1v1" between RD / EB alive to try and lynch each other and conveniently not lynch hiphop yet.
And he did not catch any mafia action watching, which also slightly reduces the odds he's town.

Random thing:

Your right, I am done arguing with you. There is no use arguing with scum, when people ought to see it by now.

What is this doing on page 3?? I'm done arguing with you you're scum doesn't set in until reads are pretty settled. And then he argues with Thomith for the rest of the game anyway.


I'm sure there's much much more good stuff and I'll go find it and trot it out if people need more motivation.
Points 1 and 2 should probably be sufficient on their own though. Especially 2. Hiphop and Weirdvoigts are the players I see the least gamesolving effort from. I read based off who is trying to figure the game out (which may be why I'm awful at catching serial killers & multiscums who are trying to find other scums).

[Llamarble]

Implo + RD + Me + WV + Neruz + Banshee = 6
That was a lynch.
I think it was a good one, but I am a little worried that Thomith is the only viable off-wagon-buddy.
Hopefully WV or Neruz this-is-hopeless-bussed.
We'll see soon.

[Llamarble]

I mean, if I bussed hiphop then town did something good today, so I don't see why that's something to worry about right now.
I'll make a case on you eventually if I decide I want to lynch you.
Until then you're probably better off spending your time trying to read people than constantly asking people to clarify things.

[Llamarble]

I'm pretty sure most of the information you want is already in my ISO.

[Llamarble]

Haha, I just ISOed myself and I never actually did make a case against you.
Whatever, as I've said before I'll do so if I actually end up wanting to lynch you.

[Llamarble]

Well, you're the only person not voting him who isn't pretty clearly town (or not scum with him in EB's case).

[Llamarble]

Hiphop already has 6 votes on him. He has been lynched. We await mod-confirmation, but I think I counted right.

[Llamarble]

Oh also WV hammered Voided too. And he bussed both his buddies in the other game I played with bvoigt. So that may just be how WV rolls, which makes that source of concern less relevant.
So basically I still want dead WV tomorrow if hiphop flips scum.

[Llamarble]

:batedbreath:

[Llamarble]

LOLWUT?
THAT'S TWO GAMES IN THE LAST MONTH I'VE BEEN TOWN AND ROLEBLOCKED ON A NIGHT WITH A NOKILL.
I'm guessing scum tried to NK me then (AREN'T I JUST A TERROR) or just chose not to submit a kill hoping for a townlynch, or plain failed.

But yeah scum not killing here was kind of dopey since it just gives town an additional lynch.
Which is going to be spent on me and spoil my never-gets-lynched record even harder.

[Llamarble]

I get to choose the next player to get lynched. Popcorn style.
Actually can we lynch them first?
I would feel ridiculously awesome if I managed to avoid getting lynched in this situation TWICE.

So the deal I'm offering is we lynch who I want to today, and then if the game fails to end I unconditionally get lynched tomorrow because stupid role crap.

Okay?

[Llamarble]

I'm not sure between Neruz and WV yet. I was definitely thinking WV yesterday but Neruz is just a bundle of scumbag too.

[Llamarble]

Also you people do realize that with the degree I was being sheeped yesterday I could've lynched almost any arbitrary VT, but instead I lynched SCUM who WASN'T EVEN ON THE MENU UNTIL I YELLED A BUNCH.

[Llamarble]

Also I pushed for massclaim that caught us scum.
When town got all stagnant-demorally yesterday I MADE STUFF HAPPEN, which is the NUMBER ONE thing not to do as scum.
Scum almost always win if town gets bored and unfocused and stops deepreading and everybody lurks, and I FIXED THAT.
I ran up & pressured like 4 different people but rather than settling on a lynch I just kept going till I felt really confident and then lynched SCUMBAG.

I think I have earned lynching somebody else first to try and end the game without getting lynched.
(I really don't like getting lynched)

[Llamarble]

I actually just went through the calculation and it looks like scum make out pretty much the same way killing vs nokilling.

I don't think town can really justify leaving me alive until lylo, but if I could stick around for a day and help with one more lynch I'd like that. Definitely I at least get to do final reads.

[Llamarble]

A reason for scum to nokill last night is:
A townie will probably get lynched today (unless they were the roleblock target in which case they were going down anyway)
Scum can take out rainbow, then nokill again the next night. Town will have to no-lynch, and then scum can kill EB in peace without generating any conftowns.

I think it works out the same as killing though; town gets to check on or lynch 4 people either way.

[Llamarble]

Not wanting to be lynched today is more a pride thing than anything else.
I suppose I trust you guys not to screw up 1v6 with 2 conftowns.
I am pretty confident the last scum is Neruz or WV.
Elli and Banshee both read very town to me.
Thomith could be scum.

[Llamarble]

Weirdvoigts last posted on September 9th. How's THAT for an explanation of the nokill.

[Llamarble]

Actually Bvoigt was on during that time even if WV wasn't.

[Llamarble]

My last game with Bvoigt scum he bussed both of his partners pretty hard.
I choose him.

VOTE: Weirdvoigts

It'd make me happy if you lynched him before you lynch me, and the plan is to lynch us both anyway so I don't see any reason not to accept my request.
I did make myself seriously useful D2.

[Llamarble]

If you promise me my WV lynch tomorrow I suppose we can just go on to night.

[Llamarble]

Y'all are crazy for actualy thinking I'll flip scum though.

[Llamarble]

I feel like we're pretty resolved that both me and WV will get lynched this game.
Can we just lynch him first? It just feels good to say "we lynched scum the first 3 days and won."

[Llamarble]

RD, I think Neruz.
If it isn't WV or Neruz I'll be really confused. Heck, if it isn't WV I'll be confused.

[Llamarble]

Lynching Hiphop enabled EB to start confirming towns.
And just because people found Hiphop scummy yesterday doesn't mean no minds would change.
He could even have claimed a watcher guilty and gone 1v1 with somebody.
Town would have a LOT less brainclarity with him still alive.

I'm not going to argue this though.
Let's lynch WV.


Elli you know I'm town. TELL THEMMM..

[Llamarble]

Rainbow unvoted, so I'm actually not dead yet.
Can we just lynch that guy?

[Llamarble]

Yeah.
If scum isn't one of Thomith / Neruz / WV then scum deserves to win.
There will be ANGER if you let one of them win as scum.
Banshee, Elli are obvtown.
RD, EB, Implo are town for role-reasons.

[Llamarble]

I wasn't adamant you were scum yesterday Thomith, by the way.
I ignored you because you were saying things that didn't make any sense and asking questions you could answer yourself by reading.

[Llamarble]

I was town by the way.
Obviously.

[Llamarble]

fuck fuck fuck why did i miss a page fuck >.>

Is it even possible to "miss" a page?
Doesn't it prompt you asking if you still want to post if there are posts you haven't read yet?

[Llamarble]

GOODBYE AND GOOD LUCK MY FRIENDS.

[Llamarble]

I had a massive false negative on Elli this game.
Well done by him looking town, but having both buddies go down leaves you in a very difficult position. *remembers multiple personality mafia*


WV, I had to find somebody else scummy and I thought the least town people were you and Neruz.
I realize WV hammered 2 scum but in my last game with bvoigtscum he hammered both buddies, so I didn't put the double bus past him.
And there was lurkiness and funny interactions enough that I got it wrong. Ah well.

Town did really well to lynch voidedscum in spite of me.
And especially to take down Elli after I died.

I totally agree with Grey that a lot of people did different things well and as a team it ended up working.

No need to feel too bad about lynching me; I did get roleblocked on a night with no NK after all.
Also there's the winning afterward part, hehe.

[Llamarble]

So third qt, in a row for us voided. I am starting to see a trend. I really hope this goes better then the last time we were scum. Back to back lynches day 1 and 2.

Dayum.