Post Apocalyptic Mafia - Mini 1226: Over!

[AurorusVox]

Hey guys, I'm going to end up very lurky until this week is out, as I'm pretty much doing 12-hour work days until then.

Sure, but why no vote?

---

DO WE HAVE TWO CAUGHT ON ONE PAGE???

^Yes.

Actually, VOTE: Slaxx for an incorrect signature.

Then he turns out a random modvote. We've already done that this game, mate.

Vote: Zajnet

Having a reason to vote and voting elsewhere (twice) for RVS is worse than not voting at all.

---

THIS IS A GOOD VOTE AND SHIT!!!!!!1!!!!

Noted that you're shying away from the major wagons to make a lolvote.

The fuck is this shit? Voting for the largest wagon? Anti town at best, scum at worst.

I was going to disagree but I'd just say the same as Nico.

[AurorusVox]

Nico, Fate & Hindu are all town.

Zajnet is scum.
Vote accordingly.

[AurorusVox]

Wat...

Fate: Zajnet not only put his vote on someone OTHER than the person he had a gripe with, he also voted the mod AFTER it was made clear that they wouldn't be counted after YOU did it (the person he had a gripe with...?)

Smells scummy to me.

[AurorusVox]

Okay, this is like the third time someone has said I'm prod-dodging by declaring a V/LA. Did anyone actually READ my post? It's not my fault that a freaking hurricane is making me evacuate my dorm.

Where's your vote? You could've mustered something, according to the fact you've been reading along.

Pallisade is Mastin?
Where's that epic Mastin posting I came to know and love from LIPD?

Still seen no reason to unvote Zajnet since he's scum.
Pallisade & Wraith make good buddies though, yup.

Ehh...Regfan is probTown.

[AurorusVox]

You've seen nothing at all worthy of a vote?

[AurorusVox]

Wraith is scummy, as I pointed out earlier, but I'm more confident in ZajnetScum. Note the difference between not posting a vote, and posting a series of useless non-serious votes.

[AurorusVox]

Fate, don't deviate from the victory plan.
I can get behind a Pallisade wagon but not a Regfan one right now.

[AurorusVox]

Wraith, you think he's got a N0 or Day Cop ability?
Naw mate.

You're number two for after Zajnet has flipped scum.

Palisade, lol.
Fake post restriction is fake, right?

[AurorusVox]

Diddin thoughts on Zajnet?
Willing to cash it in on WraithScum but I'm not liking that Zaj is an elephant in the room for a couple of people...

[AurorusVox]

@Nico: CSL is CSL. I've got no real read on him yet, since what I might call scummy (the lolgut read on Fate in particular) is more or less just CSL.

"Fate is town" as "gut" does make me think Fate is near confirmed town if CSL is scum. But I can't make that judgement (CSLScum) yet.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

So many people calling Wraith scum but so few voting for him.
Put your money where your mouths are.

[AurorusVox]

Why you jumpin' ship on Wraith, bro?

[AurorusVox]

Hindu, you're correct.
Wraith is one of them. Zajnet is another.

Third could be ???

Wraith I'm sure on: just look at how many people ON THAT VERY LIST are saying "oh, Wraith is scummy but I won't vote him, I'll vote SOMEONE ELSE"

Nico has him as third scummiest. He votes CSL.
Zajnet calls him scum. He votes CSL.
Diddin "could" vote Wraith. He votes CSL.
CSL doesn't mention Wraith yet (>_>) and Pallisade is just lol.

Add Timeaster changing off Wraith to get on Nico
Fate voting him then loldropping it with Wraith's excuse post
Gaoth saying Wraith is scum but voting Nico

xvart gets off Wraith too (agree xvart is town, his hop off is the most protown one so far)
And now you're teasing me and saying he's scum but not voting for him...


Guarantee Wraith is scum since almost all of those interactions stink and he's at the centre of it all.

[AurorusVox]

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

[AurorusVox]

vox what do think about pali/pr

Already said I don't really buy the PR, but he's not for lynching today imo.

---

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

So by this logic...about 8 people in this game are my scumbuddies? Or we could use Occam's Razor to cut through the WIFOM and deduce that there is no vast conspiracy surrounding my so-called scumbuddies, but that I am in fact being set up for a mislynch. I mean, scum and so-called scumhunters alike are using cheap tactics to make it look like I'm guilty.

Obv not all of them can be your buddies, but given that some of the players doing it would HAVE to be scum if you're town - since they could

easily

place what looks like a pro-town vote on you, but are NOT doing it, I have to wonder why.
If you are town then a vote on you is a good vote for a scum to make since almost everyone considers you scummy.
So why are there so few people willing to go through with it? Some of them are town with stronger scumspects elsewhere, but some must be scum, and this is what leads me to conclude that they're wary of bussing their buddy to a lynch on D1.

---

@xvart - the rest were included to show that even if the scummy people are scummy townies, there are plenty of others who could fit the bill. Yes I know this lessens the impact when looking to people OTHER THAN Wraith, but I think it's a legitimate concern when considering Wraith himself.

[AurorusVox]

Timeater: I think it's fake but I'm not naive enough to think that automatically makes him scum.
He isn't today's lynch, so that's all there is to it atm.

[AurorusVox]

xvart: I still would like a Zajnet lynch today. However, my vote on Wraith was an attempt to get people to "put their money where their mouth is" and join me on the wagon. The absolute lack therein is very concerning and makes Wraith the best place for my vote atm.

[AurorusVox]

xvart, you say it's a turnaround, but where have I ever said I thought Pallisade was scum?
I've not said Pallisade and Wraith are scumbuddies. That was timeater. Stop confusing everyone with other people and maybe you'll stop being wrong in your reads :\

I voted Wraith to SEE whether people would join in. I can't test whether people would put their votes where they say if I don't start the wagon.

Step 1: I vote Wraith
Step 2: See if people vote him
--> no: Wraith is likely scum, maintain vote
--> yes: question my Wraith scumread, with potential return to Zajnet wagon

[AurorusVox]

That was timeater.

Derp derp irony alert.
I don't think Timeater said that, I think it was Hindu, talking about Wraith and Nico.
So wrong on all accounts and I have no idea where you got the idea from.

Also,

Zajnet lynch is simply not happening. Get with the program.

If a Zajnet lynch "is simply not happening" am I better off beating that dead horse or voting Wraith as I did to test the waters on other players' sincerity with their "Wraith makes a good lynch" bullshit?

[AurorusVox]

Pallisade & Wraith make good buddies though, yup.

I meant buddies for Zajnet. Not sure if there's a reason to connect Wraith and Pallisade up at this point, Pallisade hasn't even mentioned him as far as I can tell. Though Wraith implying "Palisade has a daycop" with his Nico vote is pretty stinky.

Meh, Pallisade read shifted towards lolnull with his secret cop claim.

Nico has been pro-town as far as I can tell. I don't think he makes a good lynch today.

[AurorusVox]

Probing questions + good sense about bandwagonning at the start of the game.

[AurorusVox]

Well I forgot that I thought he was scum and after reading that post, I went to check on when Pallisade posted what, which jogged my memory.

Wraith + Zajnet is because they're independently scummy + Zaj is one of those who declares a desire to lynch Wraith without following through on it.
Pallisade is null for me so asking me why he's paired with Zaj is irrelevant.

RE: Pallisade; Why would scum risk outing themselves on D1?
1v1 is good for town so.

[AurorusVox]

He's obv talking about Zajnet vOv

[AurorusVox]

I was talking about your read on me as scum being wrong ._.

I still think you're town. And having some time away from the thread, I also don't think I can blame you for thinking I'm scum. That comment was partially made for comedic effect in an attempt to blow off some steam, since I was frustrated at being called scum AGAIN in a game with some similar players to DEFCON 3.0 - I just don't think I play a very good town game anymore so sorry if that came across as rude, it's more anger at myself translating into attacking you unfairly (esp. considering you didn't make the mistake I thought you had)

xvart is probably town do not read that comment as discrediting him anymore

._.

[AurorusVox]

I want to know why you ever thought Pallisade was scum.

Because at the time I thought it was a Mastin alt, and the single post he had made at the time wasn't what I was expecting from MastinTown, since I'd seen how good his posting was in LIPD. Also, when I posted that I didn't realise it was a "Post Restriction", I thought it was just Pallisade being a jerk.

Where Zajnet at?

[AurorusVox]

Let's see if this works too.

Where CSL at?

[AurorusVox]

Be that as it may, I'll be very clear: I'm only interested in lynching AV or Palisade today; maybe Diddin.

"Be that as it may" - doesn't that mean "Sure, even if that's true"?
And since Hindu has said he reads me as town 100%...
If what he says is true...
That would make me town.
And yet you'd still be interested in lynching me?

Dat make no sense.

I think this very much underlines Fate's point about you hunting down mislynches.

Zajnet/Wraith/xvart...could that be it?

xvart says there are good reasons for me to be voting Zajnet but never votes him himself...especially interesting since he suggests I should have stayed on Zajnet instead of Wraith. Zajnet is obv. not getting lynched today, whereas Wraith is a potentially successful wagon, he'd rather move me onto the wagon that has no support to get me off the other one? Whilst taking credit if Zajnet ever does flip scum ("Oh look, I pushed him over Wraith to AV") and making my vote stick in limbo rather than on his other buddy...

He uses my analysis of WraithScum to turn it into three "scumpoints" as Fate outlines, in an attempt to deflect attention off of Wraith...possibly in an attempt to discredit the wagon. Early RVS bus with the first vote? I thought his hop off was pro-town, but if we look for scum motivation in the move we do find it (obv. get off his buddy at the earliest opportunity).

Also it felt like he was trying to discredit my idea that Wraith and Zajnet are scum together, when afaict he thought I had a legit reason for voting Zajnet and even thought that the cases for WraithScum "had some merit". Now conveniently both of them are outside of his lynch pool for today.

I guess appearing to be obvTown on the surface doesn't actually make you town after all...

Happily lynching any of {Wraith/Zajnet/xvart} today, probably in that order.

Oh, xvart, there aren't really any "questions" there, but I invite a response. Especially interested in hearing what you have to say about the first part, about "be that as it may" and the last part, about Zajnet and Wraith both being scum.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote;
Vote: xvart

I'll make a proper post tomorrow responding to yours, but "AV won't vote me" was the wrong thing to say.

[AurorusVox]

xvart, I voted you because you were using scum tactics to try to protect yourself from me voting you.
I was going to tell Fate that I probably wouldn't be voting you as per my priority list outlined already. But your "lol AV you'd best not vote me wink wink" is incredibly scummy.

Why do you think I find your response to Fate scummy?
I made it pretty clear that it was what you said about me not voting you that pushed me into placing the vote.

[AurorusVox]

Well what a spot he's put us in. If we ask for a counterclaim, we risk outing the real doc. If we don't, we risk lynching the doc if he's telling the truth.

Zajnet is so obviously scum.
Just read this post.

xvart-Zajnet-Wraith

It has to be.

[AurorusVox]

3

The operative word being IF, and only in the context of IF he is correct this game.

4

Yes.

So that means IFF he's right that I'm town, you want to see me lynched. Hurrdurr.

You're taking what I said out of context. I was implicitly talking about your vote hop from Zajnet to Wraith and how you had stated a legitimate and justified reason for voting Zajnet when you jumped to Wraith on the basis of wanting to see if any of these scummy people would come and vote with you.

If -YOU- don't think Zajnet was a justified lynch, if you're going off what -I- think, then why the hell are you judging the Wraith vote as unjustified? You can't have it both ways. I have a legit reason for voting both fmpov. You've either gotta accept that or admit that you're judging it on your own basis. The fact you're hovering between the two makes you scum.

lol @ the "I need to make xvart look like scum which is difficult because I've called him town on a half dozen occasions, so if I look more closely at what I originally thought was a town motivated behavior it is actually scum motivated."

My history teacher always used to say we had to be aware when we were wearing our "hindsight goggles" and this is one of those times. Considering your later scummy behaviour, it throws a new light on the stuff that came before. For a more pretentious analogy, I could direct you to Wolfgang Iser's study of the "blank", in which he says:

Once a theme has been grasped, conditioned by the marginal position of the preceding segment, a feedback is bound to occur, thus retroactively modifying the shaping influence of the reader’s viewpoint. [...] In this sense, the vacancy transforms the referential field of the moving viewpoint into a self-regulating structure, which proves to be one of the most important links in the interaction between text and reader, and which prevents the reciprocal transformation of textual segments from being arbitrary.

The important thing to note here is that the feedback is "bound to occur" and is not "arbitrary" in the least.

---

You can also remove the "three scumreads for the sacrifice of one mislynch since he truncated the quote to fit his needs and I never suggested that we lynch CSL, which was the basis of his point;

Not really. IF CSL ever gets mislynched then your "lolthreescum" comes into play. It doesn't require you to push his lynch, but you're setting up for the future.

---

And you didn't indicate anything to suggest my challenge to you was actually scummy; just that it was the "wrong thing to say", hence the goading you into voting me.

It was pretty damn obvious that was the reason I was voting you for. Are you trying to deflect attention away from your scummy behaviour?

[AurorusVox]

You really want to keep arguing this? It's making you look petty and desperate. IF he's right that you're town, the operative word being IF

And the chain was IF x THEN y.
x was AV is town
y was you want to lynch me.

"If" AV is town, "then" you want to lynch me.

Because I'm assessing your motivations based on what you have typed, posted, and said. Scum can vote for justified reasons just as much as town can vote for justified reasons. Your vote on Wraith is horrible based on the reason you stated for voting Zajnet originally. You jumped ship on a stated justified reason to vote someone because people other than the person you were voting were behaving scummy

This isn't a rebuttal of my point.

The fact that you are just now bringing this up is convenient now that other people are voting me and not before when you still thought I was town.

Well that's because it's only transpired recently that you're hovering between the two.
I said I found it scummy that you called it justified, then you tried to back off from that, and I'm calling that scummy too. How can I call that scummy when you hadn't tried to back away yet?

Weren't you basically saying the same thing?

Nope.
I was saying Wraith is scummy, people are fannying around about it. I identified what everyone had done but I'm not chaining lynches. Plus mine was looking for connections between two scum - i.e. if Wraith flips scum, I'll know where to start looking. You were chaining lynches for after a town flip, which is opportunistic and scummy.

More xvart votes.
Hindu, come and join us.
I'll translate for you.

[AurorusVox]

Hey guys, I'm going to end up very lurky until this week is out, as I'm pretty much doing 12-hour work days until then.

Sure, but why no vote?

[...]

Vote: Zajnet

Having a reason to vote and voting elsewhere (twice) for RVS is worse than not voting at all.

^The reason I found Wraith scummy.

[AurorusVox]

Fate, I will follow you onto xvart-Wraith-Zajnet. Those are the only people I'm voting for today.

[AurorusVox]

Fate.
Do you think your entire xvart case crumbles because of a "mistake" that wasn't even a mistake? What you were saying was right in spirit. Why are you letting it drop so easily?

Thoughts on a CSL-xvart connection?

Hindu.
Thoughts on xvart scum cases? Wraith?

@rest of game, very busy atm so I'll try to get a meatier post out at some point.

[AurorusVox]

Fate are you scum with xvart?

[AurorusVox]

Fate alive tomorrow = Fate lynch?
'kay? 'kay.

Hindu had voted CSL, which puts him at L-1 with Wraith's vote.
Seven hours til deadline means I'll be hammering CSL in a few hours if needed to secure a lynch.

Buuut I still want that xvart lynch.
Hindu, thoughts on Fate scum with xvart?

[AurorusVox]

Ehh.
Plurality lynching means we don't need my vote.

Now, the question is:
Why did CSL pay enough attention to know it was plurality, given he hasn't really seemed all that involved so far?

Fate maybe I was wrong about you and xvart being hot scumbuddies.

[AurorusVox]

...if you think xvart is scum, wouldn't what I said and what you said be the same thing?

[AurorusVox]

Fate: xvart is scum

AV: xvart is scum.
AV: Fate is scum with xvart.
AV: Actually Fate is not scum with xvart.

Fate: I'm not scum with anyone QQ

If you think xvart is scum, me saying you're not scum with xvart should be the same to you as me saying you're not scum with anyone (since we agree xvart is scum).

Unless DUN DUN DUNN

[AurorusVox]

FUCK SAKE HINDU I THOUGHT BETWEEN US WE COULD WORK ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL
BUT I SEE YOU'RE ALL "FATE ISN'T SCUM WTF?"

HINDU THINK ABOUT THE NEXT LEVEL
THINK CAREFULLY
I MEAN IT

TELL ME IF YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO I NEED TO DROP A CLUE?

---

xfart I was asking Fate that because I want to see IF he thinks there are xvart-CSL connections, since he claims to think you're both scum.

[AurorusVox]

Fate chill there's not an option of No Lynching.

[AurorusVox]

FATE I THOUGHT YOU WERE ON THE SAME FUCKING LEVEL AS ME
WHY ARE YOU LETTING THE TEAM DOWN?

[AurorusVox]

My plan to get Fate through to D2 alive worked, but why the fuck wasn't Hindu protected?

Vote: xvart

[AurorusVox]

Lol@ 1v1 before LYLO.

You guys wanna take me and then get rid of confirmed scum Pallisade tomorrow?

[AurorusVox]

@xvart, raging and getting Hindu on board with "D2 FATE LYNCH" makes silly scum like Pallisade think they can get away with keeping him alive, and overconfident scum like you think you can make me push his mislynch and use that as leverage against me.

I see you.
I fucking see you.

[AurorusVox]

xvart why didn't you vote me in your opening post today?

[AurorusVox]

Because I'm waiting to see. If town wants my blood today to prove Pallisade scum tomorrow, I'll self vote. If town wants to trust me (lolI'mnottalkingaboutyouxvart) then I'll vote Pallisade.

[AurorusVox]

Magua is the only one who has his head screwed on :\

[AurorusVox]

Fate, what's this "AV town flip will make us look stupid" but then still voting me?
Do YOU think Pallisade is really the cop?

Just be glad I faked out Pallisade and xvart last night.
Your "hehheheheaheahahaeahs" from after the Pallisade lynch tomorrow had better be spot on if xvart is still convinced you're no threat.
etc

[AurorusVox]

Ugh.
Why not lead a lynch on the (fake)claimed cop, which will let me claim that you're bussing a weak partner who's going down tomorrow if I get lynched anyway, and then I can say I'll be pushing your lynch tomorrow? It worked yesterday, anyway...

[AurorusVox]

FATE
YOU FUCKING CHEEKY SCUMBAG
BUSSING YOUR PARTNER FOR CRED?

JUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW HE'S FLIPPING SCUM TOMORROW AFTER YOU LYNCH ME?
NO FUCKING WAY

CONFIRMED SCUM PALLISADE TODAY, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT UP NEXT ON THE HANGMAN'S NOOSE (possibly after obvScum xvart)

Unvote; Vote: Pallisade

@xvart, you think Pallisade is bussing me. Well let's see it then. Lynch him if you're so sure he's scum.

Magua, I know you'll do the right thing.

And to the rest of you:
The line has been drawn in the sand.
Make your choice.

[AurorusVox]

Claim: Refugee

Hammer away.

Magua betrayed me, he's probably actually the scum that was going to bus Pallisade for town cred as I said Fate was doing.
xvart is the obvScum.
Pallisade is the lolfakeclaim scum.

[AurorusVox]

Fate I'll let you hammer so the scummz think you're easy mislynch bait.

[AurorusVox]

Oh and don't let Pallisade get away with "lolgambits" or "reaction test" bullshit tomorrow.
I want his neck in rope.

[AurorusVox]

xvart do you still think I'm scum?

[AurorusVox]

Okay so you think it's a Pallisade/AV/Fate scumteam.

As scum, what reason would I have for unvoting Zajnet?
Are you just copying Magua?
What reason does scumFate have for unvoting me to vote Pallisade, since you (incorrectly) think I'm flipping scum?

You look logical and pro-town on the surface with all these questions
But there are massive holes in your arguments.

You can't fill them with apperances, scumvart.
You need substance.
You need soul.
Where is your pro-town soul?

You don't have one, do you?

Tell me, is it Magua or Fate that's your buddy? I'm torn between the two.

xvart, given your unvote, I assume you fear the day ending early. You don't want it to be over so quickly (even with what you think is a scumlynch). You want MORE time to do whatever it is you do? That means a quick end to the day would, in your opinion, favour scum?
So why didn't I (as hypothetical scum) self-hammer myself? I've done it before to end discussion. Why didn't I do it here?
Is it because - shock horror - I'm not motivated by what's best for scum?
Dun...
dun...
DUN?

[AurorusVox]

Damnit xvart answer my question about Fate or Magua, I wanted you to condemn Magua with finality. Seems I'll have to do all the work myself.

Just because I

said

I was going to self vote, doesn't mean I'll actually do it.
I think Magua tipped his hand because he thought I'd be self-voting, so he thought he could afford to put the light bus on his partner.
He didn't count on me getting TownFate to hitch in on that wagon. So then he had to speedily switch it up and put a vote down on me.

I've gifted town MaguaScum with that little gambit. It was messily executed, I'll be the first to admit that, but I'm 99% sure it worked.

PEDIT:

@Fate "xvart/magua/regfan" -- where's the Pallisade in that?
@Magua answer is here. I caught you. That's why I didn't self vote.

[AurorusVox]

HEY XVART
IF I'M SCUM WHY AM I NOT ENDING THE DAY BEFORE YOU CAN PUT THE PRESSURE ON MY LAZY LURKER PARTNER?

[AurorusVox]

HEY FATE IT WAS WRAITH WHO POSTED THE SAME ACROSS ALL GAMES

WRAITH LIKE I WANTED TO LYNCH YESTERDAY
NOT REGFAN

WASSUPWITHTHAT.JPEG

@Fate self-hammer for playing in another game is a dick move >.>

[AurorusVox]

Magua betrayed me, he's probably actually the scum that was going to bus Pallisade for town cred as I said Fate was doing.
xvart is the obvScum.
Pallisade is the lolfakeclaim scum.

xvart, if I'm town, should I self-hammer: Y/N?
Magua, if I'm town, should I self-hammer: Y/N?

Pallisade:

VOTE: Paolisade,
UNVOTE: AurarusVox,
VOTE: Paolisade.

UNVOTE: Regtan,
UNVOTE: EurorusVox,
(no one has a K in their name but that's the letter I'd be going for),
UNVOTE: Rygfan.

VOTE: Skience and Magic,
UNVOTE: CSW,
VOTE: Migua,
UNVOTE: Necodemeus,
VOTE: Pagua.

---

@Magua, seems I was wrong about Wraith since you've already shown yourself to be scum with Pallisade vOv
Unless I'm wrong about xvart. That'd be rather hilarious...>_>

[AurorusVox]

Gaoth, nothing to say about anything else on this page?

[AurorusVox]

Derp, not

this

page anymore QQ

[AurorusVox]

Magua: but if you and I both know that self-hammering as town is a stupid thing to do (and therefore not a very good town reaction), why would you then think that is AVscum trying to fake a town reaction? :\

[AurorusVox]

I've said all along that I read Nico as town, and I've never really seen why people think Regfan is scum.

[AurorusVox]

I'd prefer you believe/admit that I'm town.

My message to Pallisade may mean I'm no longer voting him.

Unvote; Vote: Pallisade

Come on. Almost everyone here thinks Pallisade is scum so vote that obvScum today and then QQ about how it's WIFOM whether or not I'm scum tomorrow.

[AurorusVox]

Gaoth, I laid it out on a platter for you.

[AurorusVox]

No. Don't you read?

[AurorusVox]

I've said all along that I read Nico as town, and I've never really seen why people think Regfan is scum.

[AurorusVox]

Silence.

This was breathtakingly simple yet so dramatic. Major props.

Time for players to

chew me out

over lulz setup

Also lol considering the theme.