Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[animorpherv1]

I am so dissapointed in town because of no Yos2 lynch. I mean, REALLY? I could've done better Day 1/Day 2. No offense Yos.

[Yosarian2]

I couldn't believe Yos2 defending me like he did. As has been said, that was a pivotal moment and one of those risk/reward scenarios that worked perfectly. I don't I would ever have the balls to do something like that.

It's especially funny since I was the one who almost got you lynched on day 1, before you were recruited, and then to defend you I had to fight against that same paranoia about you I helped create several days before.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yos >.<

GG.

[Porochaz]

I was really upset with my scumteam throughout the game. I think my comments here and in the dead qt make my feelings clear. http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/ZmZqjTh9Lgfb.

There was ABSOLUTELY no discussion with me or Katsuki about who should be recruited. Which was totally unfair and actually sucked all the fun out of this game for me. ABR was not a good cult leader because we weren't a team. I was very close to replacing out because of it, which is saying something as I havent ever needed to be replaced. I was kinda relieved when there was a cop guilty on me day 2. I blame the fact that it was very much Albert with others not ABR's cult team on why we lost so early. Even with the cop result and the Katsuki argument.

In regard to the rest of the game, as soon as it became clear Katsuki wasn't going to be playing the game properly I started rooting for Kinetics team. The mass claim was a totally idiotic idea and Im suprised only yos and bbm didn't fall for it. (although yos was scum) It nailed the towns coffin shut.

Maybe its sour grapes, but despite the setup being interesting, being excellently modded (thanks flay) and having a few good tussles with others, I can't say I enjoyed the game because of the above and the fact that there wasn't a chance in hell we were going to win.

[Mr. Flay]

Poro: I think ABR started off assuming I would be using the same time-based action resolution that SM1 had (I did nothing to really disabuse anyone of the notion, but didn't encourage it either).

Someone (Yos, I think) said something about Cult games sucking the life out of Towns. I think there's some merit to that; Town either wins early or they grind/implode to a loss. This will probably be my last Cult game I run; while I think the White Flag+Stump innovation is a good one, I'm sorta sick of the overall feel the game gets.

However, I will point out that Town was

ridiculously

close to winning in the first couple of days.

• Day One: ABR+Townie/Goon, Kinetic+Townie/Goon, 24 town w/16 power roles.
  
• Day Two: ABR+2 Goons, Kinetic+Goon (ooba recruit failed), 22 town w/15 power roles and a guilty on Poro. ABR could have lost right here because his original recruiting target was LLD, who was unrecruitable, but he screwed up at Goofbash and showed Katsuki his QT. So he had to switch his target, which gave him a recruit, but not the one he wanted.
  
• Day Three: ABR gets eliminated following Katsuki's lynch. Kinetic still only has
  one
  recruit, because DGB was successfully protected. Town has something like 16 players left, only about 2 of which are plain Townies.

I did enjoy trying to make the game as 'realistic' as possible, even if it made writing night actions take FOREVER. The map was largely a red herring for most roles, but it did provide some ways for roles to interact in non-standard ways.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Poro: I think ABR started off assuming I would be using the same time-based action resolution that SM1 had (I did nothing to really disabuse anyone of the notion, but didn't encourage it either).

Someone (Yos, I think) said something about Cult games sucking the life out of Towns. I think there's some merit to that; Town either wins early or they grind/implode to a loss. This will probably be my last Cult game I run; while I think the White Flag+Stump innovation is a good one, I'm sorta sick of the overall feel the game gets.

However, I will point out that Town was

ridiculously

close to winning in the first couple of days.

• Day One: ABR+Townie/Goon, Kinetic+Townie/Goon, 24 town w/16 power roles.
  
• Day Two: ABR+2 Goons, Kinetic+Goon (ooba recruit failed), 22 town w/15 power roles and a guilty on Poro.
  ABR could have lost right here because his original recruiting target was LLD, who was unrecruitable
  , but he screwed up at Goofbash and showed Katsuki his QT. So he had to switch his target, which gave him a recruit, but not the one he wanted.
  
• Day Three: ABR gets eliminated following Katsuki's lynch. Kinetic still only has
  one
  recruit, because DGB was successfully protected. Town has something like 16 players left, only about 2 of which are plain Townies.

I did enjoy trying to make the game as 'realistic' as possible, even if it made writing night actions take FOREVER. The map was largely a red herring for most roles, but it did provide some ways for roles to interact in non-standard ways.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

EBWOP: So you're saying that had ABR not screwed up at Goofbash, I would have been responsible for the elimination of 1 Cult, and the near death of another?

Fuck, I sure went downhill this game.

[Porochaz]

Still even after that had been sorted it was still wasn't great. (partially because of the Katsuki incident, which in all fairness to ABR accidents happen) ABR didn't explain to me what was going on then and then the next day no discussion was had with Katsuki.

[Yosarian2]

I figured we were likely under the same sucession I time-stamp rules as well, porochaz. In Sucession I, whichever cult leader got the recruit in first, won. It was game-changing more then once. So ABR probably felt like he had to get his choices in right away, without time to discuss stuff with you

[Yosarian2]

Someone (Yos, I think) said something about Cult games sucking the life out of Towns. I think there's some merit to that; Town either wins early or they grind/implode to a loss. This will probably be my last Cult game I run; while I think the White Flag+Stump innovation is a good one, I'm sorta sick of the overall feel the game gets.

Well, it's very likely that town either wins early in a cult game or loses. That being said, I don't think that was true in this game; town could really have won at any point, right up until they massclaimed for no reason. They had so much power at that point, if they had just kept most of their roles hidden and made smart night choices, they probably would have won even at that point.

[Mr. Flay]

That being said, I don't think that was true in this game; town could really have won at any point, right up until they massclaimed for no reason. They had so much power at that point, if they had just kept most of their roles hidden and made smart night choices, they probably would have won even at that point.They had so much power at that point, if they had just kept most of their roles hidden and made smart night choices, they probably would have won even at that point.

I have to give big props to my reviewers, who avoiding some crashingly bad role-decisions during game design. I kept wondering if Town was overpowered, and then I'd look at Lost Boys and SM1, and go, "Nope..."

I think one of their ideas was to have TWO Cult Doctors.

I figured we were likely under the same sucession I time-stamp rules as well, porochaz. In Sucession I, whichever cult leader got the recruit in first, won. It was game-changing more then once. So ABR probably felt like he had to get his choices in right away, without time to discuss stuff with youession I, whichever cult leader got the recruit in first, won. It was game-changing more then once. So ABR probably felt like he had to get his choices in right away, without time to discuss stuff with you

I'm 95% sure I told them they could change choices until they got results, though... anyway, I perhaps should have made that clear, but ABR's team definitely didn't have the cohesion of Kinetic's, and that probably hurt his chances.

[xvart]

I'm 95% sure I told them they could change choices until they got results, though... anyway, I perhaps should have made that clear, but ABR's team definitely didn't have the cohesion of Kinetic's, and that probably hurt his chances.

The cohesion makes all the difference with any scum team, and especially in cult games, I think. I felt about the same way that Prozac feels this game in Succession I where we were so disjointed and couldn't get our scraps together and failed horribly. Although I didn't really contribute to the scheming/planning of my team it was nice having people planning and being able to work with/from that instead of just mindlessly going around hoping for the best.

[Kinetic]

The cohesion of our team was just me and Yos trading shit and then me praying I made the right choice by taking a risk on him. I knew I needed a good first recruit, otherwise things could go down the shitter fast, and I was scared he'd be too obvious. Then I thought that might work in my favor, so I went for it.

[Nobody Special]

God, I played terribly.

Me, too. Sorry, Town..... HOWEVER:

Assuming Yos2 was conftown because of the JK was kinda though...

I seem to have not thought Yos was all that 'conftown' ....

The map was largely a red herring for most roles,

I thought as much.

[ooba]

@This game

Cult MVP: Yos
For surviving when we should have lost Day 1 and Day 2, and for protecting xvart from getting lynched at a pretty pivotal moment in the game.

- I think day five was the pivotal moment in the game. Yos protecting xvart was a risky move but them surviving that day made sure cult won.
- Kinetic recruiting ML in the end was a nice touch.
- I felt sorry for ABR for being forced to recruit Katsuki (who played horribly)
- I think I should have pushed for a xvart lynch more forcefully on D5. Also I can't town let Batt get away with killing me!

@On cult games
- I think people who scumhunt by associations do much better in cult games. Asking the questions "If Zdenek is cult, who is he cult with?" would lead you to the conclusion that he's town.
- I've also noticed the "feel" cult games seem to have during the game - town becomes increasingly frustrated. Paranoia? IDK.

@Mr.Flay
-

Why did the N1 recruit on me fail?

(Oh. Kinetic was blocked and Yos came to recruit me but was JK'd)
- I actually worked out Uncle Joe's Tavern as Kinetic's location. (around N3 or so) N5 - I was actually considering one option of visiting the Tavern and presenting myself to the cult. Would that have worked?

I thoroughly enjoyed the game - I also think the best team won - so kudos!

---

Also - nominations. The only reason I didn't nominate for best setup is because I think the Vigs should have been unrecruitable (and you could have kept the cult docs recruitable) - 9 shots when they were town and they still won ...

[Kinetic]

@This game
- Kinetic recruiting ML in the end was a nice touch.

I agreed with what someone else said that Vigs should get the protections. ML was a risky play, but if I grabbed him I could afford to out ML as cult to ensure the last vig recruit. And with that, I could literally throw everyone out and still win. If you read the thread you'll see I had it worked out. From that play worst Cult could do was a draw.

[Mr. Flay]

- I actually worked out Uncle Joe's Tavern as Kinetic's location. (around N3 or so) N5 - I was actually considering one option of visiting the Tavern and presenting myself to the cult. Would that have worked?

Yeah, certain roles would get 'revealed' to the Stumps if they came too close to them. Yours was one of those (not sure if they'd have taken you up on it, as it would have not been revealed until the End of Night).

[springlullaby]

I had fun in this game wifoming with the treestump, not that it really worked.
I though Yos was scummy though, YAY me.
The egotist in me would like to point out that everything went downhill after my death
But nah, I think what hurt town most was the cop pair being misguided.
On top of that Kinetic did play really well and amply merits the win.

[DrippingGoofball]

Which idiot vig'ed me?

[Battousai]

Tis wasn't I.

[Katsuki]

Still even after that had been sorted it was still wasn't great. (partially because of the Katsuki incident, which in all fairness to ABR accidents happen) ABR didn't explain to me what was going on then and then the next day no discussion was had with Katsuki.

Yeah the lack of discussion really was disappointing.

_____________________

Also DGB, why would you use GOOFBASH timestamps against me?!?!

[Nobody Special]

I'm the Idiot Vig.

[Porochaz]

Oh yeah DGB hurt my feelings a lot this game... words hurt...

[Herodotus]

She didn't mean what she said, she was just trying to provoke your teammates.

[Andrius]

Which idiot vig'ed me?

YOU CAME BACK? <333 I MISSED YOUUUU

But yeah who's the idiot who killed me I'm going to kill them.

Awesome game, though watching from the dead thread wasn't nearly as cool as playing to to the wire.
VERY HAPPY FLAMEAXE LOST.
Wish he was cult and lost but yeah whatever I'll get my revenge.
Next time we're killing Yos N0.

*sigh* Freaking Vigs.