Back to the Future Mafia - Over: Was Hill Valley saved?

[Maruchan]

@Maru- So have you ever played a theme game like this before?

Had to check my wiki to accurately answer this as I learned making vague guesstimations about stuff (lie say, the number of pages in a game) makes people go MARUSCUM MARUSCUM BLAH BLAH BLAH LOOK HE LIED SOGHTPOW*UYTP(*GHNBLI:O@!*Y%THGP: which is bad.

I have played 4 Theme games that I have flipped in (and are therefore the only ones I am willing to talk about). One had a role-name attatched (Ender's Game), and it was a game I didn't really pay any attention to, and also the rolenames you would EXPECT to see as PRs (mainly, ENDER) were VTs. So it is either a norm that name-claims have nothing to do with role, or that game was out of the norm. Either way, I found it only to be educational to me/beneficial to inquire about the possibility of nameclaims. One was only a theme do to crazy mechanics (READ: Game I am "Policy Lynch Candidate" because of), in which all players are Vanilla Townies or Mafia Goons. No flavor whatsoever. The third game had name-claims, BUT the roles were so wildly-unique and custom never seen before that the name didn't mean jack shit in relation to the game. ANd the fourth game the role was not given any names, we were told 5 "Traits", given a flavorful description of who we were, told our abilities (this is the role,without telling us the actual NAME of the role), and given a win condition.

The rest I won't discuss

[LordChronos]

Don't like the policy lynch, Shadow. Though Maruchan's reaction is really vehement, which is not at all how he played last time I was in a game with him. Gotta go look at some of his other games.

1. Please explain why you feel Maruchan’s reaction is vehement? He didn’t come right out of the gate after Shadow dropped that vote screaming “Scum”. He actually asked for the reasoning behind Shadow’s policy lynch reasoning. When it was provided and Maru found it lacking (as you have) he voted Shadow for what he perceived to be scum motivations.
2. So despite seeing something you ‘don’t like’ (aka you are indicating is scummy) you dropped a random vote on Vezok for giggles?

1. I meant mostly vehement compared to how he played the last time I played with him. Obviously I've seen people more vehement than him. But to answer more specifically, cursing in 56, cursing and caps in 61.
2. Not liking the policy lynch =/= thinking SD is scummy for suggesting it.

This post is not true. He replaced into Ender's Game Mafia, which just finished. We had names. He did not have any such confusions about nameclaims in that game. He also suggested a massclaim, though much later in the game. And was SK.

My mistake on you suggesting the massclaim. You were certainly gung-ho about jumping into it though.

And I don't accept that you meant never on this site. There is absolutely no reason to phrase it the way you did to explain your scummy request for a nameclaim when you have played at least one game with names.

The game had only 34 pages when it ended. You replaced in on page 27. And the game did not come to an abrupt stand still. Extreme hyperbole much?

Or are you still "not paying attention"?

I did read it. You were an idiot. Try not to be that much of an idiot in this game. I don't care how dumb you were in that game. I care about your half-truths, contradictions, hyperbole to make yourself not look as bad, and outright lies.

Given the quotes above I’m definitely going to ask you about your stances here.

1. Are you trying to assert that asking about whether a name-claim early on in a themed game Day 1 is scummy? If so why?
2. Are you trying equate someone who replaced into the last 7 pages of a game of a 34 page game and followed through with the mass name claim someone else suggested (which is reasonable behavoir for ANY alignment when replacing in late) is the same as him asking if a mass name claim is useful here?
3. Did the mass name claim in that game yield results?
4. You are bashing him for lying when you yourself lied about him calling for a mass claim in Ender’s Game? Seem at best hypocritical (and possibly indiciative of Cognitive Dissonancne) for you to say “oops, my mistake” and assume it isn’t scummy while hammering him for saying he made a mistake in his statement about not playing in games with names.
5. You directly said he was an idiot in that recently ended game. Are you trying to assert that he suddenly not going to play very similarly? Are you suggesting that your opinion of him is an ‘idiot’ but he is making scum moves not idiotic moves here?

1. I'd say it is scummy to suggest a nameclaim this early, yes. It can help scum out by suggesting who is more likely to be a powerful role. (Yeah, I know, major characters aren't always more powerful. Still more likely to be powerful than the most minor of minor characters.)

2. Let me clarify what happened in the other game first. He replaced in. Went through the rest of that day and the next day. Someone else tentatively suggested massclaiming. Maru jumped on it immediately. Made his claim pretty quickly after. This was emphatically not the situation you described. Those seven pages covered three game days. So, I'd say there are parallels, yeah.

3. Yes, at that point in the game, on the fourth day, a full mass claim helped town. We aren't talking about a full mass claim on Day 4 though.

4. If you seriously can't see a difference between me mistaking him being a major factor in the the mass claim in that game for him starting it and him specifically stating he had never played a game with names before, I don't know what to say to you. Also, if you want to make that argument, why not ask him why he asked the nameclaim question now and not then?

5. Idiot comment referred to the Campaign Mafia that Shadow was requesting his policy lynch based off of. It is certainly possible that he could act like that again. I do think that what he has done is more indicative of scum than idiocy though.

@vezok

It was a semi-random joke vote until I found somewhere better to put my vote. Upon looking back at Maruchan's posts, I saw the never played a game with names comment and changed my vote accordingly.

[Dekes]

D1 Vote count #3

Maruchan

(L-4): Shadow Dancer, Starbuck, LordChronos

Antifinity

(L-4) - kiwieagle, MagnaofIllusion, PeregrineV

PeregrineV

(L-5): SnakePlissken, ooba

Shadow Dancer

(L-5): Maruchan, xvart

LordChronos

(L-6): vezokpiraka

kiwieagle

(L-6): Antifinity

Not voting (1)

- havingfitz

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline expires in (expired on 2011-09-13 19:30:00)

[Shadow Dancer]

...quick reread...

Interesting things have come out of the maru waggon so far... More on that later (i.e. hopefully tomorrow), I have to take care of my modded game now... Sorry.

[Maruchan]

OH I meant to say this in my last post my bad.

@MoI: IGMEOY. I love that you don't find me scummy, but your uber shield of Maruchan mode smells of possible buddying material.

[kiwieagle]

lolantifinity
why you so scummy?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: IGMEOY. I love that you don't find me scummy, but your uber shield of Maruchan mode smells of possible buddying material.

Feel free to keep your eye wherever you like. Just know if I was scum looking to buddy (this is a hypothetical for all those Jr. Detectives out there ready to start screaming “He claimed scum hang him!!!!”) you would be pretty much the last person I would choose.

That said –

This comment right here is absolutely why Maru is Town

. Scum don’t worry about someone buddying up to them.

--

1. I meant mostly vehement compared to how he played the last time I played with him. Obviously I've seen people more vehement than him. But to answer more specifically, cursing in 56, cursing and caps in 61.

So you don’t think it is reasonable for a relative newcomer who is getting shit in multiple games for his style to get a teensy bit justifiably angry / frustrated and vent on Shadow for what is tremendously stupid reasoning?

2. Not liking the policy lynch =/= thinking SD is scummy for suggesting it.

Then why mention that you didn’t like it at all if you didn’t find it scummy? It’s a soft sort of fluff statement that you could revisit if needed (Hey, I said I didn’t like it before, that meant it was scummy) and let waft into the ether if you didn’t.

1. I'd say it is scummy to suggest a nameclaim this early, yes. It can help scum out by suggesting who is more likely to be a powerful role. (Yeah, I know, major characters aren't always more powerful. Still more likely to be powerful than the most minor of minor characters.)

Point 1 - So you know full well that big Town names don’t necessarily mean Town PR or even Town but still say it is scummy?

Point 2 – that game you have been referencing … wasn’t Ender the star of the Series a VT? Since you should know this why are you banging Maruchan for acting scummy when his limited experience indicates that Big Theme Name does not equal PR?

Point 3 – He didn’t suggest “Hey, Let’s Nameclaim”. He asked a question regarding whether it would be advantageous to do so. Competely different things that you keep misrepping.

2. Let me clarify what happened in the other game first. He replaced in. Went through the rest of that day and the next day. Someone else tentatively suggested massclaiming. Maru jumped on it immediately. Made his claim pretty quickly after. This was emphatically not the situation you described. Those seven pages covered three game days. So, I'd say there are parallels, yeah.

No, there are no parallels there at all.

1. Here he asked if a Mass NAME claim would help Town. He didn’t immediately name-claim in hopes of starting the process.
2. There he hopped on the chance to Mass-claim (I don’t know his motivation there) when it was offered by another.

Those are Apples to Plutonium Cores comparisons.

3. Yes, at that point in the game, on the fourth day, a full mass claim helped town. We aren't talking about a full mass claim on Day 4 though.

Again he didn’t suggest a mass-claim … just a mass name claim. So its not apples to apples as I said above. And if a mass claim of full abilities helped Town that situation (which appears to be his main experience with Named roles here on MS) why do you think it is scummy to ask for a name-claim here? He saw it whipsaw and screw him as scum before apparently . That’s a Town thought process in trying to see what others felt about it here.

4. If you seriously can't see a difference between me mistaking him being a major factor in the the mass claim in that game for him starting it and him specifically stating he had never played a game with names before, I don't know what to say to you.

Also, if you want to make that argument, why not ask him why he asked the nameclaim question now and not then?

Nice dodge of the question. Your lie was just as incorrect as what you claim his to be his lie was. You are using a double standard to suggest yours is an innocent mistake but his was a deliberate attempt to ‘look Town’. That’s scummy.

Regarding the bolded – let’s revisit my response.

At this stage? Very unlikely. Any reason why you think it would be?

I did ask him why he asked it. Plain as Day. I’ve even bolded it for you. If you'd read it you would have seen that. Town don't really need to skim Day 1, especially this early when the thread is only barely five pages long.

FOS – LC

I’m not moving my vote from Antifinity currently but you can swim in the Scum pool.

[Starbuck]

Mod: I will be V/LA until Tues as I am heading to Atlanta for Dragon*Con tomorrow

Have fun!

[vezokpiraka]

@LC: Why was that a joke? Why a joke exactly?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod - I'll be V/LA from 4pm EST today until Tuesday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

Gotcha.

[Antifinity]

I was on the Maru wagon for the same reason I imagine most people were. Reaction fishing. I don't think there is much a chance at all that Maru is scum. Kiwieagle tried to distance himself from the lynch he wasn't even on, which makes it seem like he knew for sure Maru was going to flip town, and was worried Maru might actually get lynched. Since the format makes it unlikely for Masons to exist, I strongly suspect Kiwieagle of knowing Maru is town because Kiwieagle is scum.

[xvart]

Wasn’t Shadow’s vote one of the earliest votes for Maru? Looking at the VC he was the second vote. I agree his reasoning is highly suspect but your “Looking to get on a popular wagon” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

No, you're right. I didn't go back and check I thought he was later on the wagon. He was actually first behind my RVS vote. So it is just a suspicious reason for voting someone.

I was on the Maru wagon for the same reason I imagine most people were. Reaction fishing. I don't think there is much a chance at all that Maru is scum. Kiwieagle tried to distance himself from the lynch he wasn't even on, which makes it seem like he knew for sure Maru was going to flip town, and was worried Maru might actually get lynched. Since the format makes it unlikely for Masons to exist, I strongly suspect Kiwieagle of knowing Maru is town because Kiwieagle is scum.

Hello, scum. What reaction were you trying to generate if you didn't think there was much chance of him flipping scum? Why do you want reactions out of town members by putting a lynch on them? And why does this format preclude masons?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Antifinity

[Maruchan]

I was on the Maru wagon for the same reason I imagine most people were. Reaction fishing. I don't think there is much a chance at all that Maru is scum. Kiwieagle tried to distance himself from the lynch he wasn't even on, which makes it seem like he knew for sure Maru was going to flip town, and was worried Maru might actually get lynched. Since the format makes it unlikely for Masons to exist, I strongly suspect Kiwieagle of knowing Maru is town because Kiwieagle is scum.

I don't know about kiwieagle's knowledge of me, but I confirm 100% that I am in no way shape or form a lover nor a mason, and I was not informed of any other persons alignment pre-game.

[Shadow Dancer]

Vote: vezokpiraka

Hey there!

Don't like the policy lynch, Shadow. Though Maruchan's reaction is really vehement, which is not at all how he played last time I was in a game with him. Gotta go look at some of his other games.

This post is not true. He replaced into Ender's Game Mafia, which just finished. We had names. He did not have any such confusions about nameclaims in that game. He also suggested a massclaim, though much later in the game. And was SK.

You know what, I don't like lying.

Unvote; Vote: Maruchan

L-2, I believe.

@kiwi

Your post appears to be incomplete.

@Maruchan

At what point do you cease being new enough that scummy actions can be written off as newbtells? One month? Three or four games? Two months and five games?

Is the game you adress in the first post "Ender's game" that you also adress in the second one or are those two distinct?

[kiwieagle]

I was on the Maru wagon for the same reason I imagine most people were. Reaction fishing. I don't think there is much a chance at all that Maru is scum. K

iwieagle tried to distance himself from the lynch he wasn't even on

, which makes it seem like he knew for sure Maru was going to flip town, and was worried Maru might actually get lynched. Since the format makes it unlikely for Masons to exist, I strongly suspect Kiwieagle of knowing Maru is town because Kiwieagle is scum.

1. your saying im scum because i think maru is town (you also think maru is town btw)
2. also wtf is the bolded part supposed to mean

[Dekes]

D1 Vote count #4

Antifinity

(L-3) - kiwieagle, MagnaofIllusion, PeregrineV, xvart

Maruchan

(L-4): Shadow Dancer, Starbuck, LordChronos

PeregrineV

(L-5): SnakePlissken, ooba

Shadow Dancer

(L-6): Maruchan

LordChronos

(L-6): vezokpiraka

kiwieagle

(L-6): Antifinity

Not voting (1)

- havingfitz

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline expires in (expired on 2011-09-13 19:30:00)

V/LAs:

Starbuck:

09/02 - 09/06

MagnaofIllusion:

09/02 -09/06

[Dekes]

havingfitz prodded.

[Maruchan]

yay 4 rpodz

[havingfitz]

I'm here...I had >ten minutes left. Faulty prod. mod foul!

Un FoS Maruchan. He's annoying as hell but I'm more interested in the case on antifinity. Looking him over harder. Don't see the case on LC.

[PeregrineV]

Will read and stay caught up, but minimal posting over the labor day weekend.

[havingfitz]

Yeah...Antifinity hasn't posted much but what he has doesn't make sense. He votes Maruchan for what I would consider a decent early game reason but then later defends te vote by calling it reaction fishing. Reaction from who? Maru? You were voting him

for

his reaction. There was no need to fish for

more

reaction from him. And if you wanted to get a reaction from others you got it. Not sure how you can call kiwi for distancing when he simply isn't supporting a Maru wagon. Is everyone not on the Maru wagon distancing themselves from it?

VOTE: Antifinity

[ooba]

Per's response gives me town vibes.

Antifinity (L-2) - kiwieagle, MagnaofIllusion, PeregrineV, xvart, havingfitz
Maruchan (L-4): Shadow Dancer, Starbuck, LordChronos
PeregrineV (L-5): SnakePlissken, ooba
Shadow Dancer (L-6): Maruchan
LordChronos (L-6): vezokpiraka
kiwieagle (L-6): Antifinity

Not voting (1) -

I personally think Antifnity is bad town.
If he flips town, we should look at xvart, Starbuck\SD and Snake.

Interesting things have come out of the maru waggon so far...

SD, I'd like for you to elaborate on this..

[LordChronos]

@MoI: IGMEOY. I love that you don't find me scummy, but your uber shield of Maruchan mode smells of possible buddying material.

Feel free to keep your eye wherever you like. Just know if I was scum looking to buddy (this is a hypothetical for all those Jr. Detectives out there ready to start screaming “He claimed scum hang him!!!!”) you would be pretty much the last person I would choose.

That said –

This comment right here is absolutely why Maru is Town

. Scum don’t worry about someone buddying up to them.

Never ever?

1. I meant mostly vehement compared to how he played the last time I played with him. Obviously I've seen people more vehement than him. But to answer more specifically, cursing in 56, cursing and caps in 61.

So you don’t think it is reasonable for a relative newcomer who is getting shit in multiple games for his style to get a teensy bit justifiably angry / frustrated and vent on Shadow for what is tremendously stupid reasoning?

At that point I hadn't gone and read through his other games, so I didn't know he was getting shit in multiple games for his style. At this point, I'd say it's justified.

2. Not liking the policy lynch =/= thinking SD is scummy for suggesting it.

Then why mention that you didn’t like it at all if you didn’t find it scummy? It’s a soft sort of fluff statement that you could revisit if needed (Hey, I said I didn’t like it before, that meant it was scummy) and let waft into the ether if you didn’t.

Expressing disinterest in the lynch as a policy lynch? Duh?

1. I'd say it is scummy to suggest a nameclaim this early, yes. It can help scum out by suggesting who is more likely to be a powerful role. (Yeah, I know, major characters aren't always more powerful. Still more likely to be powerful than the most minor of minor characters.)

Point 1 - So you know full well that big Town names don’t necessarily mean Town PR or even Town but still say it is scummy?

Point 2 – that game you have been referencing … wasn’t Ender the star of the Series a VT? Since you should know this why are you banging Maruchan for acting scummy when his limited experience indicates that Big Theme Name does not equal PR?

Point 3 – He didn’t suggest “Hey, Let’s Nameclaim”. He asked a question regarding whether it would be advantageous to do so. Competely different things that you keep misrepping.

Point 1 - Don't necessarily mean Town PR or even Town doesn't mean that Obi-Wan Kenobi isn't more likely to be a power role than Zett Jukasa.

Point 2 - Bean, another Big Theme Name in that game, was a PR. Quit suggesting that I'm saying the suggestion (yes, it was a suggestion, if a soft one) of a mass nameclaim is only scummy if big name characters are guaranteed to be town PRs.

Point 3 - See parentheses response in Point 2.

3. Yes, at that point in the game, on the fourth day, a full mass claim helped town. We aren't talking about a full mass claim on Day 4 though.

Again he didn’t suggest a mass-claim … just a mass name claim. So its not apples to apples as I said above. And if a mass claim of full abilities helped Town that situation (which appears to be his main experience with Named roles here on MS) why do you think it is scummy to ask for a name-claim here? He saw it whipsaw and screw him as scum before apparently . That’s a Town thought process in trying to see what others felt about it here.

I thought you said he didn't suggest a mass name claim. Make up your mind. Why the heck are we talking like his only experience with claiming is that game, anyway? He has more posts than I do and has been in/is in about 2/3 as many games on this site as I have, and I don't see you clamoring that I'm new and my experience is limited.

4. If you seriously can't see a difference between me mistaking him being a major factor in the the mass claim in that game for him starting it and him specifically stating he had never played a game with names before, I don't know what to say to you.

Also, if you want to make that argument, why not ask him why he asked the nameclaim question now and not then?

Nice dodge of the question. Your lie was just as incorrect as what you claim his to be his lie was. You are using a double standard to suggest yours is an innocent mistake but his was a deliberate attempt to ‘look Town’. That’s scummy.

Regarding the bolded – let’s revisit my response.

At this stage? Very unlikely. Any reason why you think it would be?

I did ask him why he asked it. Plain as Day. I’ve even bolded it for you. If you'd read it you would have seen that. Town don't really need to skim Day 1, especially this early when the thread is only barely five pages long.

Let me ask you something, MoI. What if I came into this game and said I've never had experience with a neighbor or neighborizer role before? Would you attack me for lying? Would you back off me if I said in response that I meant never off site? Would you back off me if you made a mistake about the level to which I was involved in an event in a recent game?

Also, read my quote again. I didn't ask why you didn't ask him why he asked about the name claim. I asked why you didn't ask him why he would ask that question in this game with names but not his previous game with names.

@ooba

Why those players? And if Per's response gives you town vibes, why are you still voting him?

@SD

Yes, same game.

@vezok

Joke vote = not entirely serious vote. Not joke as in funny.

---

Antifinity's last post is definitely scummy. No reason to push for reactions from someone you think is town.

[Maruchan]

@Mod, was there a time-change at all already and I just missed it?

[Dekes]

@Mod, was there a time-change at all already and I just missed it?

If a time-change occurs, the thread title will indicate as such.

SnakePlissken prodded.

Happy Labor's Day weekend everybody! Let's hope activity picks up after that. Nobody wants shortened deadline's in a Back to the Future game.