Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Banshee]

Well, unless there is a day role cop on the Mafia side who investigated Beck early on day one (which seems unlikely to me based on the general play -- I wouldn't have investigated him if I were scum) then I have to believe that Evil Bullet is being honest about the role (if not the alignment). We know there was an odd-night town role and without a rolecop Evil Bullet would have had no idea to claim even-night anything unless it were true. So scum or town, he's definitely an even-night something. You're right about the roleblocking/jailkeeping being pointless to the scum and I hadn't thought about that angle to it.

I suck at game balance but you obviously don't. So I'm going to sheep you on this because your opinion is a lot better than mine AND you're town.

UNVOTE:

My suspicion list stays the same but I'll drop Evil Bullet from it.

Willing to lynch:

• Hiphop
  Neruz
  WeirdVoigts
  Thomith

[Rainbowdash]

hiphop-llama
hiphop-banshee
EB-WV

I think its one of those three pairs.

I will not vote EB becaue he only can be scum with WV to me at this point.
I will not vote Thomith because I don't think he is scum with either hip or EB

I would vote either WV or Llama today. WV because it would nearly confirm EB-town if he flipped town, Llama because he is best partner to hiphop.

Time will tell which.

[Banshee]

@Rainbow:

Why would you not vote me? Also, would you be willing to vote hiphop?

Actually, I need to think about exactly what happens in each proposed scenario if any of the PRs (except Implosion obviously) is scum. I'm going to try to do that tonight, but I make no promises. It's possible that leaving hiphop alive forces the scum to no-kill or to kill less optimally.

It is possible (though not probable, I guess) that all scum are in the claimed VT pool too. In that case lynching any of the VTs is one in three, just as if one PR is scum then lynching there is one of three.

How would WV flipping town clear EB? Is it because of the fakehammer thing? Does the existence of the daytalk encryptor change that view any for you?

Meh, the odds are good for us regardless. I'm not sure why you're exempting me from the lynching party if you suspect me though.

[Llamarble]

Why not Hiphop + WV? That makes more sense to me than anything else does right now.

[Llamarble]

Also why am I "the best partner for hiphop?"

[hiphop]

Implosion-ninja, strongman

my reads have not changed lynching claimed vt's, my view of the pr's

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow:

Why would you not vote me? Also, would you be willing to vote hiphop?

I lean you town so do not want to vote you. Don't want to lynch hiphop today either really just due to early gut and if he is town it will really help town.

How would WV flipping town clear EB? Is it because of the fakehammer thing? Does the existence of the daytalk encryptor change that view any for you?

Will go through this more tomorrow, all I did was lable everypairing "not possible, very unlikely, possible and good pair"

Interestingly enough giving (0, .3, .6, .9) to each, my final list (excluding Elli because I think he is town enough to leave off the list) I have points of

Neruz - 3.0
Banshee - 3.0
WV - 2.7
hiphop - 2.7
Thomith - 2.4
Llama - 2.1
EB - 1.5

This is just something that is tripping me out against since it goes against quite a few of my reads with the exception of EB-town. This is due to things like no real reason to think Banshee is NOT scum with anypony, and things like EB working with next to no pony (nearly all of his points are from WV-EB). I almost want to just vote WV again. Llama really is making me paranoid with these last few posts though.

[Banshee]

Pairing people with other people with no knowledge of either party as scum is really really pointless. It's about as relevant as pointing out that I'd be a pretty good scumteam with Implosion (look at all that distancing!) because it doesn't derive from any knowledge of alignments. The only points that matter are those derived from connections with VoidedMafia.

At this point we need a lynch. By my calculations, Thomith is currently at L-3. WeirdVoigts has two votes on him. I'm going to

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

and put Thomith at L-2. I think we should just agree to choose between these two and lynch one of them. Whichever one we choose will gain us enough information to proceed and we'll end this constant bickering and going around in circles (which I am just as guilty of, so I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone else). Lynching Thomith has the added bonus of avoiding WIFOM later on due to some very scummy aspects of what appears to be his normal playstyle.

[Neruz]

Wait, havn't you been fighting against the Thomith wagon, why would you just suddenly jump on it?

[Banshee]

Have you read my recent posts?

[Neruz]

Not really, i stopped paying attention to you awhile back when i decided you were probably a VI.

[Banshee]

Not really, i stopped paying attention to you awhile back when i decided you were probably a VI.

So what led you to that conclusion? I note that your level of play hasn't justified a whole lot of confidence in your abilities either, as you've so dramatically pointed out.

If you held that opinion, why would you bother questioning me about something that, by your own admission, you're not even paying attention to? Why would it occur to you to do so?

And is anyone else going to answer Rainbow's questions or just ignore them as per usual?

[Banshee]

EBWOP:

Just a note to myself to remember this particular attempt by Neruz to defend Thomith via attacking someone for voting him and to reread the start of the game if Thomith flips scum.

[Neruz]

Yes, i am defending Thomith, that is why i've been sitting on him for the entire day, because i

don't

want him to be lynched.

If you're wondering what led me to the conclusion that you're an idiot, it's posts like that.

[Banshee]

All right, let's dissect some of your past play, Neruz. You call someone scummy but you don't vote them during RVS. This has been discussed to death but it's worth noting that the person defending you at that point was Thomith. You're inextricably linked with him throughout the game through your own actions and his. I have this delightful post I'm working on that's just full of the linkages between the two of you.

People were starting to leave the Thomith wagon at this point for WeirdVoigts. You claim you're not paying any attention to me because you think I'm a VI. Fair enough, but then why suddenly start paying attention and complaining the second I put a vote on the person you WANT to be lynched?

What's the motivation there? You weren't reading my posts enough to know why I put my vote there, so why react at all? Your motivations don't make any sense if you're telling the truth, because either:

• You're reading my posts and thus should know why I changed my mind; or
  You're not reading my posts and shouldn't have noticed that I even voted for Thomith.
  

You perked up at the vote for Thomith and, instead of reacting positively to someone else voting for your favoured candidate, you reacted with hostility and demanded a reason why. I voted for Evil Bullet and I didn't hear a peep out of you; it's always Thomith that gets a response from you.

Namecall all you like. I'll put my contributions up against yours in this game ANY day. At least I don't pretend not to know who the nightkills are; if you ARE town and you really didn't know, that's even more pathetic.

[Neruz]

Fair enough, but then why suddenly start paying attention and complaining the second I put a vote on the person you WANT to be lynched?

I vaguely recalled that you had been fighting the Thomith lynch the last time i payed attention, so i was mildly surprised that you were now voting him. I wouldn't say i was complaining, i just didn't expect you to turn around like that since from what i could recall you were pretty adamant that Thomith was too ovbiously stupid town to be scum or something.

The only overreaction i'm seeing here is from you, you've exploded all over the place because i found it odd that you were voting someone i thought you had already said you felt was town and in the post where you made said vote you didn't provide any reasoning beyond "Thomith is at L-3". I'm seriously starting to question my VI read on you, your reaction to me doesn't look like a VI at all, it looks like seriously paranoid scum jumping six feet into the air because the quiet person in the corner she'd forgotten about suddenly wandered over and asked what she's doing.

But, you know, feel free to keep on going with the whole outraged exaggeration thing you've got there, i like it when scum hunt themselves, saves me time and effort.

[Banshee]

Yeah, like I've said all along, go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum. I'm happy to volunteer to be lynched, I think town can learn a lot from any wagon that forms on me, and I think they should look at you first when I flip town. But I want to make my big huge wall post before that happens (and before we lynch anyone) just so it's really clear the connections that exist between you, VoidedMafia and Thomith.

And yeah, if you call someone a VI you're deliberately provoking hostility. It's a personal attack and you haven't offered anything material to support it, but most people will resent it regardless of alignment. Your play has, frankly, SUCKED if you're not scum so you have no room to call anyone else names, but you've still done it all game long. You vaguely remember this and that, but you're not ACTUALLY READING THE GAME AT ALL. I don't like Thomith's playstyle, but at least he knew who the nightkills were.

Of course, I think you did too. No one gets the superior snotty attitude you have without being a better player than you're faking to be in this game.

[Evil Bullet]

I am willing to lynch:

Evil Bullet
Hiphop
Neruz
WeirdVoigts
Thomith

(in rough order of preference)

Well, unless there is a day role cop on the Mafia side who investigated Beck early on day one (which seems unlikely to me based on the general play -- I wouldn't have investigated him if I were scum) then I have to believe that Evil Bullet is being honest about the role (if not the alignment). We know there was an odd-night town role and without a rolecop Evil Bullet would have had no idea to claim even-night anything unless it were true. So scum or town, he's definitely an even-night something. You're right about the roleblocking/jailkeeping being pointless to the scum and I hadn't thought about that angle to it.

I suck at game balance but you obviously don't. So I'm going to sheep you on this because your opinion is a lot better than mine AND you're town.

UNVOTE:

My suspicion list stays the same but I'll drop Evil Bullet from it.

Willing to lynch:

• Hiphop
  Neruz
  WeirdVoigts
  Thomith

Hey Thomith there's only 4 posts in between these two lists. Why isn't she scum?

[Evil Bullet]

hiphop-llama
hiphop-banshee
EB-WV

I think its one of those three pairs.

I will not vote EB becaue he only can be scum with WV to me at this point.
I will not vote Thomith because I don't think he is scum with either hip or EB

I would vote either WV or Llama today. WV because it would nearly confirm EB-town if he flipped town, Llama because he is best partner to hiphop.

Time will tell which.

I can see me being scum with WV. I've mostly ignored them. Good reads.

[Neruz]

It's kind of funny how close Banshee comes to being right before she falls over at the last hurdle. Apparently she lives in a world where everyone is always 100% interested in every mafia game at all times and no-one ever forgets anything, sounds like a fun place, wish i lived there.

This game is incredibly slow, it's accumulated 68 pages in less than 2 days, of which i'd be willing to bet about 25 are discardable chaff. The wagons aren't going anywhere and for the last few pages i've been treated to some ovbious analysis revealing to us the amazing information that we shouldn't lynch a PR claim just yet (not shit really?) some people waffling on about Llama and not really getting anywhere, some people waffling on EB and getting nowhere even faster than on Llama, then a brief moment on Rainbow, once again no progress made and some role speculation as well as some minor setup analysis covering points that i'm pretty sure were also already made.

I mean, good god, reading this game is like trying to wade through treacle.

[Neruz]

EBWODP: Oh christ EB's at it again.

[Neruz]

EBWOTP: Also will people stop giving lists of who they'd be willing to lynch? It's not contributing anything useful guys, it's just more mindless fluff, if you want to prod dodge then just fucking prod dodge, don't try and stuff the thread full of cotton balls.

[Banshee]

Ellibereth ASKED for them.
That's why people are giving them.
Or did you miss that post too?

Whose posts ARE you reading that don't mention Thomith by name?

[Llamarble]

Huh, well you're probably NOT Planar Relation pony then because you'd have been wary of pairing analysis clearing me after whiteflag mafia. Heh.
I remain curious what about my posting has been bothering you.

Also that list seems to be bringing you pretty much to where I am except Banshee's town and EB may be scum.
Neruz needs a good wagonin' at some point. His posting seriously bothers me compared to what it looked like in my game with town-him.
Tangibles-wise, he "QHed" voided when voidedlynch seemed inevitable and then didn't end up voting to lynch him afterward.
Mastin-scum fakehammered a buddy hoping to shake things up in recently completed Flash mafia.

All the "Neruz is a derp and forgot Beck was dead, thought there were 3 cult recruiters, and acted town after being fakehammered" is DUMB.
Neruz is competent enough that he is VERY unlikely to have actually thought those things.
I find him deciding to pretend he wasn't joking very possible after people writing him off as town for it.
And I think I've forgotten who I NKed as scum before though I doubt it's made it into any of my posts.
Certainly I don't forget who's been NKed as town, because that's NEW information.
Scum are more likely to forget new alignment knowledge because they ALREADY were aware of it.

Pony, go read another Neruz game or something.
He's just not the type of player to go OH WHY AREN'T THERE 3 CULTS HERPADERPZILLLA.

Also Beck was steadfastly opposed to his continued existence.
Neruzscum makes sense with Voided, makes sense with Beckkill, makes sense with his posting...
I think I just convinced myself to lynch him today, but I'll reread later to make sure.
VOTE: Neruz

[Thomith]

What are you trying to figure out with this question?

Sorry i misread the question you asked EB i thought you were disagreeing to logic which is why i asked the question.

I am willing to lynch EB and maybe WV, unless you can convince me otherwise this is who i think should get lynched

Why isn't she scum?

She posted a list to lynch with me on it, how would this make her scum?