Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Evil Bullet]

Stop this wagon.

[Evil Bullet]

Llamarble... are you absolutely sure Neruz isn't stupid?

[Neruz]

hmm, Banshee's trying too hard to be scum, assuming our scum are smart, which is probably a valid assumption given they managed to ident Beck as a PR worth shooting, they're probably trying to avoid my wagon. Implosion's vote looks pretty terrible, but even i have difficulty with the idea that scum would wilingly place the fourth vote on a wagon with the reasoning "lets see what happens".

Dunno, logic suggests that scum can probably be found in the less active players, Hiphop, wv, Ellibereth, but gut says something is very wrong with Banshee's reactions over the last couple of pages. I dunno, might just be the fact that she's picked up on the easy lynch so hard and so suddenly.

pedit:
And now EB is defending me. That's new.

[Rainbowdash]

Stop this wagon.

Ok.

unvote

@Elli, implosion and EB - Who do we lynch?

[Banshee]

hmm, Banshee's trying too hard to be scum, assuming our scum are smart, which is probably a valid assumption given they managed to ident Beck as a PR worth shooting, they're probably trying to avoid my wagon. Implosion's vote looks pretty terrible, but even i have difficulty with the idea that scum would wilingly place the fourth vote on a wagon with the reasoning "lets see what happens".

You ARE aware Implosion is confirmed town? What is the point of this comment, in light of that fact?

I started this lynch, thank you very much. How did I "pick up on the easy lynch"? I built and pushed this wagon all by my lonesome. Check it out, I really did. So stop mischaracterising what happened; it's the same thing Thomith keeps doing and it's REALLY scummy.

[Neruz]

EBWOP: Also Banshee, the reason #1701 confirms that you do not understand how the english language functions is because Llama is voting me because he feels that i am a better player than this as town. This is a compliment about my abilities as town, and also an implied criticism of my abilities as scum. I can't really blame him because he only has games i was interested in to go on, so my behaviour this game does look substantially different from my usual behaviour, but unfortunately as it appears everyone is about to find out, this isn't my scum game and hopefully never will be because it would be a terrible scum game.

Seriously, if i cared i could explode all over Banshee right now and throw up such a shitstorm that everyone except her would back down and leave me alone for the next day at least. Banshee would then end up looking like the crazy old lady and lose most of her town cred, making it easy to lynch her at a later date (how easy would depend on how frustrated she gets). Under normal circumstances i'd do that as town after carefully making myself look like an easy lynch and then waiting for scum to bite, but i just can't conjure up the necessary energy.

pedit: Right, yeah, innocent child. That explains the terrible vote; like me Implosion just doesn't care.

[Neruz]

I started this lynch, thank you very much. How did I "pick up on the easy lynch"? I built and pushed this wagon all by my lonesome. Check it out, I really did. So stop mischaracterising what happened; it's the same thing Thomith keeps doing and it's REALLY scummy.

Please. I do in fact encourage everyone to go check out my ISO and look at how easy it would be to build a case on me.

[Llamarble]

hmm, Banshee's trying too hard to be scum, assuming our scum are smart, which is probably a valid assumption given they managed to ident Beck as a PR worth shooting, they're probably trying to avoid my wagon.

Implosion's vote looks pretty terrible, but even i have difficulty with the idea that scum would wilingly place the fourth vote on a wagon with the reasoning "lets see what happens".

OH COME ON.
Really?

EB, I can confirm for you that Neruz can think straight and make pretty insightful posts. The meta I'm going off of is This. He was abrasive and insulting in that game too (uses "stupid" 27 times in that ISO and "idiot" 4 times) but he was figuring stuff out and ended up threatening scum enough that they NKed him.

He's paying enough attention to this game that he's saying things that make sense about posting, but he's saying absurd things in view of gamestate.
That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Weirdvoigts just made me seriously want to activate OMGUS mode and lynch him instead though.

[Neruz]

That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Pretty much entirely, i'm reading and responding to immediate posts around the ones i make but i keep forgetting the actual game state in relation to roles and stuff.

[Banshee]

You've claimed vanilla townie. You are paying no attention at all to this game as has been evidenced over and over and over and over again.

Why, if you're so much better than the rest of us, are you playing so HORRIBLY scummy that you believe you've made it amazingly easy for ANYONE, including a VI, to make a convincing case on you?

How is that pro-town or useful in ANY WAY?

Yeah, at this point I am practically begging to be lynched because 1) it would get info for town and 2) I wouldn't have to play with lazy, do-nothing, read-nothing, know-nothing players like you, Neruz.

@Llamarble: I think it's interesting that WeirdVoigts didn't vote Neruz, since that would seem to be the logical move to get heat off himself and onto someone else. That said, I tend to agree with Rainbow that Neruz makes a lot of sense with a lot of ...er, people. Not least of which was VM.

[Neruz]

You've claimed vanilla townie. You are paying no attention at all to this game as has been evidenced over and over and over and over again.

Why, if you're so much better than the rest of us, are you playing so HORRIBLY scummy that you believe you've made it amazingly easy for ANYONE, including a VI, to make a convincing case on you?

How is that pro-town or useful in ANY WAY?

Wow ok you actually just don't understand basic mafia theory. Huh, that explains a lot actually.


My standard VT play is to make myself look like an easy lynch, but not a scummy one. The reasoning for this is very simple: Town doesn't go after easy lynches, only scum do. Town goes after scummy lynches; people who look like they're scum. Scum, on the other hand, goes after

anyone they think they can get lynched.

The core of the scum game is opportunism, it is the one single scumtell that is consistant across all forms of Mafia. Scum are opportunistic, they

must

be opportunistic in order to win the game, without opportunism it is literally impossible for scum to progress towards their win condition, even better, Town are

never

opportunistic, town have absolutely no reason to be opportunistic and nothing to gain. Therefore opportunisim is a perfect scumtell and evidence of it is almost exclusively limited to scum and the occasional VI, who is fine to lynch anyway.

I make myself look like an easy lynch because it's easier to defend myself than it is to defend others; i know my own thought processes and the reasons behind those processes and thus can provide solid explanations for my actions throughout the game. That's not to say i only look for opportunistic votes on myself, i keep an eye out for any sort of opportunism (which is why your vote on Thomith drew some attention) but opportunism on myself is doubly potent because i also know that i am town, extra ammunition.

The other huge advantage of this is that i don't draw any scum attention until i spring the trap; up until then it is in scum's best interests to keep me alive because they figure that if all else fails they can always get an easy lynch on me, which means it's a good idea to keep me around. Ideally this means i land a scum lynch and then are promptly night killed by the scum basically going "What the shit just happened fuck kill it before it ruins everything!" and that has basically been what has happened in every game i've played in so far.

Now, all of this hinges on being able to provide reasonable explanation for my earlier actions, unfortunately i can't really do that in this game because the explanation for my earlier actions is that i was trickded by GreyICE and then started to lose interest in the game when it began to drag on indefinitely. While this is technically a reasonable explanation, it's not a useful one nor an easily provable one; the only way i have to provide evidence to support that explanation involves copious WIFOM and thus isn't worth the effort involved.

There we go, there's my sane and reasonable explanation post, now back to grunting insults and trying to get enough care into my cup to do a proper counterpoint.

[Banshee]

You seriously believed that in a Mini Normal you would have three cult leaders ... and you're accusing others of not understanding basic Mafia theory?

SRSLY?

REALLY?

Meh, you're right, though. I don't know why I'm bothering to care either. I doubt we're capable of agreeing on a lynch anytime this year anyway.

[Llamarble]

That just plain bothers me a lot. I'm not sure to what degree the "I'm not as focused on this game" thing explains that.

Pretty much entirely, i'm reading and responding to immediate posts around the ones i make but i keep forgetting the actual game state in relation to roles and stuff.

I feel like awareness of gamestate is super important for being able to scumhunt sensibly. And it's WAY easier to keep track of gamestate than to deepread everyone's posts... Blah.

I was hoping you'd flail some like in exe and make it easier to read you.

WV's latest post is flat out lousy.

Maybe we actually do just lynch hiphop though.


Also in mafia.exe Neruz displayed clear understanding of the guidelines for normal games.
I still find it virtually impossible to believe he'd think 3 cults was plausible.

[Neruz]

GreyICE made a big deal about how he'd tricked PZ into letting it slide, my error wasn't in understanding basic mafia theory, my error was in believing GreyICE who is a notorious liar.

[implosion]

Stop this wagon.

Ok.

unvote

@Elli, implosion and EB - Who do we lynch?

i don't freaking know.

[Llamarble]

Formatting is busted because I just copypasted from a locked thread, but:

Paranoid-gun owner is not a role allowed in normal games.


This is just flat out wrong.

#
Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

* Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
* Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
* Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
* Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
* Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
* Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
* Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).

...

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.


One-Shot and Paranoid Gun Owner do not violate any of those rules. The fact that you managed to link to the wiki page in question and still get it wrong is pretty impressively bad.

And Krazy, if you thought GreyICE's claim was impossible in the ruleset, why didn't you, oh i don't know, call him out on it instead of trying to hold it back like some kind of trump card?

Seriously, every post you make makes you look worse and worse.

...

Also also; in Normal games there is allowed be one new or variant role, however i cannot see how PGO would be considered either 'new' or 'variant' as it's a very well known role, even if it was considered 'new', normal games can still have one new role in them.

Some of the gaffes from this game just don't feel compatible with this.

[Neruz]

Yes, i know Llama, you've made that same point at least three times in different ways now. All i can really say is that you're overestimating me.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Hiphop
Most likely to be scum.
EB can announce his target in the event of a hiphopscumflip before night.
If a kill still happens, that player is confirmed town.

My recommendation on Hiphopscumflip is to block weirdvoigts.
We're on evens right now so if scum give up a kill to cause a VT mislynch, we haven't lost anything at all.

[implosion]

Bah. wv and llama are probably right... we're trying to lynch scum. hiphop is in my mind very, very likely scum. The game makes much more sense with hiphop scum, and i sort of still have a lingering scumread from earlier irrespective of claims.

I mean, if hiphop is town, we lose the watcher, sure, but even if he is town, at this point, he isn't guaranteed to give us anything. Scum can kill RD tonight by targeting RD or me (essentially); so hiphop would have to guess who they target, meaning that if he's scum, he can just say he was on the wrong person.

I'm pretty sure EB is town based on a combination of scum even JK not making sense and EB just acting kind of town, and RD is just... town, and if RD is scum, it'll become ridiculously blatant as RD doesn't die over the course of the next few days.

so meh. lynching a vt is probably safer. but meh, i want to lynch someone who i'm confident is scum, and the only person that fits that descriptor is hiphop. so.

Unvote

VOTE: hiphop

Possibly my final answer.

[Ellibereth]

is anyone at L-1 yet...
sorry guys, the conversations that i think have been going on just don't interest me much as it's just choosing who to lynch out of the pool I'd take anyone in.

[implosion]

is anyone at L-1 yet...

i didn't check, but can definitively say no based on past trends

[Ellibereth]

why the fuck do I see three cult leaders somewhere
I might read this now

[Ellibereth]

HOW HARD IS IT TO CHOOSE SOME TO KILL >.>

If we agree on pr pool it's obv hip.
If we agree on vt pool it's one of thom/ner/weird...I'd probably choose wierd just off the fact that I don't remember what he's done

[implosion]

pedit: Right, yeah, innocent child. That explains the terrible vote; like me Implosion just doesn't care.

It's fun being able to do whatever i want :3

[Neruz]

I forget, why are we just letting Ellibereth run around making posts like 1744 without any scrutiny?