Open 331: No Lynching Town - Game Over!

[Empking]

1. Don't gop after an unrelated point. Back up your original one.
3. If there's nothing scummy about those interactions unless they're both scum. Then your point was essentially.
They are scum.
Therefore X.
Therefore they are scum.
Is that what you were going for.
4. The logic behind killing CSL. And it was obvious if you reread the last day.
6. Begging the question that you're town. If you're town then I muist be scum. Therefore you're (again?) going.
Empking is scum.
Therefore he only wagoned townies.
Therefore he is scum.
7. Cases are scummy.

[Packbat]

1. Your argument is that you wouldn't echo your partner's opinions. But the reason to avoid doing so is to look towny when your partner flips scum - but you're connected by voting anyway. Which implies you aren't worried about being connected - possibly because you can WIFOM it away, as you just did.

Given this context?

The specific way you agreed with him seems scummy.

3. When you catch scum by interaction, you catch two scum. My argument was that the interaction only made sense if both glowball and hiplop were scum. If they were

not

, then the interaction was meaningless. If you had a genuine townread on hiplop, you shouldn't have trusted the case to start with.

4. Repeat for me, if you would.

6. Fail.

7. Epic fail.

[Empking]

1. When did I WIFOM away from it. Its not scummy in the first place there's nothing to WIFOM from.
3. No. That interaction made Glow-Hip pair more likely. That makes Glow and Hip more likely to be scum. Then we're back to the negative number example.
Just because I have a town read on someone doesn't make them a 100% cleared.
4. CSL was obviously not scum with Hip.
6. How?
7. How?

[Packbat]

1. When did I WIFOM away from it. Its not scummy in the first place there's nothing to WIFOM from.
3. No. That interaction made Glow-Hip pair more likely. That makes Glow and Hip more likely to be scum. Then we're back to the negative number example.
Just because I have a town read on someone doesn't make them a 100% cleared.
4. CSL was obviously not scum with Hip.
6. How?
7. How?

1. "Why would scum do that?" is WIFOM. #398.

3.

*checks Empking's ISO*

Is it just the CSL connection?

Iys your glow-hip conection. If I was to follow then I'd vote for glow rather than hip.

You treated the connection as your

entire case

. Your

entire case

on the slot was that they were scum with your

townread

. Does. Not. Compute.

4. Why didn't glowball see it, then?

6. ...wait a second, are you talking about my remark that "With all of three exceptions, your every vote has been hopping on a town wagon near lynch and trying to push it the rest of the way" from #397? Is your reasoning that I am painting you unfairly as scum because the one L-1 or L-2 vote you placed on someone who has not been

already

confirmed town, here:

unvote vote: Pack

- I agree with glow

...is such an incredibly towny vote that it overwhelms your wagoning onto CSL, your wagoning onto izakthegoomba, and your wagoning onto glowball? As opposed to looking like exactly the same kind of wagoning behavior you presented everywhere else, and

never

on hiplop, the only revealed scum?

7. In what way is summarizing the reasoning behind your suspicions

scummy?

[Empking]

1. No it isn't. You're saying scum would do it more often than town. I expect you to back that up.
3. You keep on acting like I voted Glow. I merely said that Glow was scummier than Hip.
4. Do I need to answer that?
6. Do you want to change your argument to me wagonning players who were not town reads? Its fine if you want to but its an entirely different argument.
7. Tolwn don't want to close their minds by making cases.

[Packbat]

7. If town can convince town to lynch scum, town wins. And if scum can vote for anyone without defending their votes, scum wins. What part of this does not make sense?

[Empking]

7. Well the presumption that cases help you to lynch scum and the presumption that cases are required to explain votes.

[Packbat]

7. (a) If your cases are good, other townies will be convinced. If your cases are bad, other townies will be suspicious. And cases tend to be good when they target scum and bad when they don't. (b) MafiaScum players have been supporting their reads with arguments in

every single Mafia game I've ever played

. The only case which remotely resembles an exception was Shadow Dancer in Crazy's Campaign Mafia, and not only do his reasons in that game not apply here,

he lost

.

[Empking]

(a) I disagree with your second sentence.

[Packbat]

Why?

[Empking]

Why?

Sorry. I meant I disagree with your third sentence.

[Packbat]

And this disagreement is for what reason? You're being evasive.

[Empking]

And this disagreement is for what reason? You're being evasive.

I see nothing to suggest that quality of cases are more to do with alignments that the case-makers presentantion abilities.

[Packbat]

We can argue about the relative importance of eloquence and accuracy to the response players have to cases, but that doesn't change the fact that you've given

very

little in the way of coherent reasoning for any of your votes.

That

is the fact which requires justification at the present moment.

[Empking]

No,

that's L-1 on CSL

.

Well you couldn't ====[] otherwise, could you?

Unvote, Vote: Pack

- Pretending to be useful.

unvote vote: Pack

- I agree with glow

[Ellibereth]

So hi

Sig for weekends etc.

Only skimmed
almost all this shit look like it doesn't relate to alignment at alllllll ugh.

[Empking]

No,

that's L-1 on CSL

.

Well you couldn't ====[] otherwise, could you?

Unvote, Vote: Pack

- Pretending to be useful.

unvote vote: Pack

- I agree with glow

I have no idea why I posted this/

Elli: Everything in 3p LyoL is null.

[Packbat]

So hi

Sig for weekends etc.

Only skimmed
almost all this shit look like it doesn't relate to alignment at alllllll ugh.

See you Monday, Ellibereth.

[Fenchurch]

First Vote Count of Day Four

Not voting: 3 (Ellibereth, Empking, Packbat)

With three alive, it will take two votes to lynch.

Deadline is: Saturday, 15 October 2011 at 22:27 pm GMT

[Packbat]

I do not believe I can advance the day without an opportunity to converse with Ellibereth. First, because if Empking is scum, as I believe he is, I need Ellibereth's vote to obtain a lynch. Second, because if Ellibereth is scum, I will need the time I spend discussing with him to discover my error.

I am confident, but I do not intend to be reckless. Therefore I will have very little to say before Ellibereth has a chance to catch up and discuss on Monday.

[Fenchurch]

Monday morning prods sent to Elli and Emp.

[Empking]

We're waiting for Elli!

[Packbat]

Ellibereth didn't need a prod - he was V/LA all weekend.

[Ellibereth]

I'm back now <3
Catching up longer places first so I don't lag further behind etc. but I'll get here tonight

[Packbat]

Ten-four.