Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[EtherealCookie]

Lo.

Vote: Kdwons

[EtherealCookie]

I am from House Tyranus.

[EtherealCookie]

Vote:Empking

An experienced player from 2008 who's convinced that a scum with a one shot day kill would waste it on a relatively new player that played rather poorly? Come on.

As for David, I've gotten more townish vibes than antitown. I don't exactly see a strong reason to support the case against him, and it seems highly tied with speculation to the setting. Note he also voted DX for being scummy without any actual explanation for that. He's upset that so much of it was set up speculation, but goes with the wagon that's based off a case that is mainly set up speculation? He screams scum IMO.

[EtherealCookie]

All aboard the empking wagon.
He's continued to just randomly vote with little reasoning and jumping back and forth from wagon to wagon. And then his silly claim that SK is a scum-day vig who revealed himself by shooting a rather poorly played townie? Yeah right.
He's a better lynch than anyone else at the current time.

[EtherealCookie]

1. Hi EC
2. SK tried to solicit opinions for town cred so...
3. EC: That question is still wanting an answer from you. (And I meant play rather than plan.)

Hi?
I'm not on 24/7.
And that was already addressed.
The idea of a scum vig revealing himself on a poorly played town is ridiculous. Shooting an experienced player that appears somewhat scummy is a better move.

[EtherealCookie]

Oh.
You wanted actual games. In that case, I can't indulge you.
I'm going off this wonderful thing called common sense here, not previous experience. There is no plus to drawing attention to oneself with a vigilante kill on someone who played poorly. He could've gotten much more town credit from just asking for a vote on who to kill if that was his intention.

[EtherealCookie]

He asked for a vote between two people and shot because nobody said anything. Not exactly the same thing.

[EtherealCookie]

Where the heck did he claim BP?

[EtherealCookie]

I think it's fine to hammer.

[EtherealCookie]

Wait, so what was Gandalf talking about? I doubt it's a gambit to get himself targeted as I don't see why a watcher would want to die. That'd have made more sense if he was just a townie. I don't see why he drew that attention to himself, that was a bad move. Could've been more useful as an alive watcher for us. He leaked way too much information just for some silly setting theorizing. I'm guessing his condition that turned him into scum or whatever didn't go off, which is why he's popping as green for now. Anyways, we should take a look at the people that actually thought SK could be some sort of scum day vig, and people that defended/avoided votes on EmpKing.

MacDougall, for instance.
Or kdowns. His vote on empking was also a latecoming one, with no reasoning.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3456292
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3456298

[EtherealCookie]

Ugh, Kdowns.

Heyibetishouldaccuseyouofsecretlybeingmafiathatistryingtopretendtobevigilantenowandshootyouwithmyoneshotdayvig.

(Disclaimer: Joke.)

I'm good with MacDougall then I guess.

Vote:MacDougall

[EtherealCookie]

Why should we be looking at those that thought SK was a scum day vig? Scum have known he wasn't scum. The only people that would have thought he was scum would be town. And by the end of it I didn't think SK was scum, I just thought he was annoying.

Yes MacDougall, because the mafia are honest people that vote themselves out instead of painting other town as scum. That's definitely how the game works.
/end sarcasm

[EtherealCookie]

Unvote

Vote: SC

MacDougall next, yup.

[EtherealCookie]

I do not find you scummy Matt.
I find MacDougall scummy for reasons besides what he's trying to use.
So, yes, he is trying to buddy you!

[EtherealCookie]

Manho sure is a bit confident that he's not scum even with a cop claim. We should turn our attention to him if SC does flip town. I'm guessing mafia with a framer on team distancing himself from vote so he can yell "I told you so" if that happens.

[EtherealCookie]

How are you sure it's a third party and not two separate mafia factions?

[EtherealCookie]

Especially noting that the kill ratio didn't go down, as the third kill in the night preceding SC's lynching was caused by SK's gun. I'd be tempted to suggest two different mafia factions given SK's death didn't change anything, unless someone fired a gun AGAIN.

[EtherealCookie]

Yay triple posting. I'll hit preview next time, I promise. Given the death on N2 being singular, that might actually be possible. SC could've been a SK, and Shi Ki could've given a gun to the wrong person and got himself shot in the process given the person was smart enough to clue into what was going on, explaining two deaths on N3.

[EtherealCookie]

Op.
Disregard my post, then, the gunsmith role works dramatically differently than any other variations I've seen of it on other forums/games.
I still have no idea how you're convinced he's a SK as opposed to a different mafia member faction though. And no, don't use flavor to defend it, the mod has already stated flavor logic is idiotic and won't work.

[EtherealCookie]

Cough cough.
Lynch Vezok.

HE NEVER SAID HE IS A COP.

He is just playing stupid hoping someone dies. Next thing you know tomorrow after SC town flip he comes and says. Oh sorry guys I was just a watcher, tracker, whatever and I thought by my flavor that he could be scum.

Vote: Vezok

This is the most obvious defending ever.

[EtherealCookie]

EC's not knowing what a gunsmith is seems fake. He's been here since 2009.

Maybe if you actually did some background checking you'd realize I've actually had very little playtime for someone who has been here since 2009.

[EtherealCookie]

What the f?
Why are we lynching MattP?
The case against him is so fucking weak compared to MacDougall or screamoutscummieVez.

[EtherealCookie]

It's WIFOM.
It's bad.

[EtherealCookie]

And yes, which leads me to two conclusions, Bogre:
My first that was proposed earlier of two scum teams, and the second being that one out of the two is scum at the least. Vezok is a better check. I think Mac's play has slightly been more townish, but not enough to erase my suspicions of him.

[EtherealCookie]

I believe set up 1 is more likely. Vezok is a better lynch than MacDougall, but depending on how the day goes, I'd be willing to support a MacDougall lynch as well.
If anyone strikes me as VI, it's soda.

[EtherealCookie]

Vezok is tied to one of the scum, as was pointed out earlier.
He questioned Shi Ki as a cop and said that he could be lying to get SC killed. If two mafia teams are possible and SC is in one of them (which I believe) then Vezok is highly scummy for his defense of SC.

[EtherealCookie]

Vezok, once again, is a better lynch. His behavior is completely scummy and similar to Soda, he has also kinda just disappeared.
The difference is, Soda actually reads like VT.
.

[EtherealCookie]

*VI.

[EtherealCookie]

Vezok, once again, is a better lynch. His behavior is completely scummy and similar to Soda, he has also kinda just disappeared.
The difference is, Soda actually reads like VT.
.

Please tell me why does my behavior seem scummy? Also how have I disappeared and soda didn't?

I meant that your disappearance is similar to Soda.
And why are you scummy?

Trying reading my ISO. I've already pointed out that highly suspicious defense of RayFrost. If there are two mafia teams and Ray was GF of one of them, then you're no doubt in that same group.

[EtherealCookie]

Soda is indeed meh.
Magua's case defending Mac makes sense to me, and Mac's behavior today doesn't seem scummy. I'm inclined to put him in a neutralish/town vibe. I don't understand the case on Matt, and he's a null read to me. Vez is clearly scum, however, and is the town's best lynch for today at the current moment.

[EtherealCookie]

Going to respond to AgaRs post, Magua? Because he does bring up interesting points. I'd like to point out that Vezok has continued to just lurk. Soda has at least said shit, and he voted for EmpKing, something that Vezok failed to do completely. I don't know. Looking at Soda's meta the VI play just seems to be much more common than Vezok's, though both do share some degrees of it. I would once again insist on a Vezok lynch; MacDougall has had previous scummy actions, but his behavior this day has been largely town in my opinion.

[EtherealCookie]

The viable lynch is Vez.
I don't much care for the possibility of both of you being town and wasting two lynches.
Vez is a fucking beacon of scumminess.

[EtherealCookie]

I have already explained.
How about you try reading?

[EtherealCookie]

Hm.
I definitely see the tie between MacDougall and Magua. Vezok is still cause for concern. There are two different killing groups. Factions? Perhaps, but they haven't hit each other yet, which slightly weakens my theory, unless they're already painfully aware of each other and avoiding each other until the end. Otherwise, we have an SK. Regardless, MacDougall just gave up. Scum, given what happened yesterday. The Soda wagon was badbadbadbadbadbadbad and everyone on it is dumbdumbdumbdumb. I agree to this voting bloc, and I agree to the MacDougall lynch. I would also examine those who tried building wagons on Otalia. I can't recall who it was, but I'm going to go check now. He was wanted dead really bad, and ended up dead.

Vote:MacDougall

[EtherealCookie]

Look.
if SC was a SK, shouldn't there only be one kill going on in the night?
There were three deaths N1, one caused by a vigilante.
The vigilante died.
The possible "SK" dies.
And then there's two deaths N3 and N4. That doesn't make sense, unless we have two SKs around, but then why didn't they attack N1 too? There is definitely a two faction thing going on here, in my opinion.

21. samantha97, House Morrell (Loyalist), Bombed Day One
1. Empking, Terran Agents (Eastern Rolecop), Exiled Day One
17. gandalf5166, Brotherhood of the Watchers (Loyalist Watcher/Guardian), Murdered Night One
9. SleepyKrew, Imperial Skyfleet (Loyalist One-Shot Day Vigilante), Murdered Night One
15. JDGA, House McKarn (Loyalist), Murdered Night One
13. StrangerCoug, Henrich Bremburg (Bremburg One-Shot Bulletproof), Exiled Day Two
6. David Xanatos, Moran Argelev (Mason Beloved Prince), Murdered Night Two
20. Shinki, Valterran Armaments (Gunsmith), Murdered Night Three
14. monk, 3rd Legion "Stormtroopers" (Mason), Murdered Night Three
11. SodaSpirit17, Stadt-Orogoth (Loyalist), Exiled Day Four
2. Otolia, House Delmar (Loyalist), Poisoned Night Four
3. whispersilk**, Anya Argelev (Mason Roleblocker), Committed Suicide(?) Night Four

[EtherealCookie]

You are absolutely ridiculous if you think I am scum after my voting pattern and behavior. That being said, no, I was not on the Soda lynch wagon, it is literally on page 44, are you really that lazy? I stated he is VI multiple times. It was clear as day. I'm pretty stuck at this point. Both Magua and Andrius present good arguments, and I'd imagine at

least

one of them is scum. I'm going to go look over their ISOs, but it's looking like an Andrius lynch or MacDougall lynch at this point, and given how I've felt for the majority of the game, the MacDougall lynch seems much more supportable.

[EtherealCookie]

\Here’s my issue with Magua. He wasn’t on the SC wagon. At all. He just kinda ignored it. Disappeared. Nothing on it whatsoever. He was definitely on the EmpKing wagon, however, which suggests to me that if there are two factions of mafia, he is on SC’s. However, if there’s only one, I would be way less inclined to peg him as scum. His vote on EmpKing doesn’t read as bussing. He kind of drew attention to it and pulled that wagon forth with SK. He also stated Empking was scum even earlier on before that.

So, the major question is, where the fuck is Magua during this entire SC thing? And then he comes back to vote the most obvious VI when he was adamantly AGAINST voting Vezok because he was an obvious VI? That doesn’t add up at all. I see ties between Magua and Vezok more strongly than I do between Magua and MacDougall.
As for you, the player you replaced was highly inactive, so it’s difficult to get a read. However, I’m worried that you might be misdirecting town and Magua and yourself might just be bussing each other. I believe MacDougall is in fact a bad choice. He is perhaps as bad a choice as SodaSpirit was. However, Magua is not a bad choice. Magua screams out scum much more than MacDougall. If Magua is scum, I would go forth to lynch Vezok. However, MacDougall can certainly wait. There are people worse than him. I get the feeling town is being manipulated into a terrible lynch once more, and this one will lose the game for us.
I’m also amused you’ve accused me of being scum by being a late voter to the McD wagon when I’ve expressed suspicion of him long before the wagon picked up steam. Of course, you don’t seem to be doing your reading that much, so I’m not surprised.
So yeah, town will probably continue sheeping, but I don’t like this MacDougall idea after all. Also:

vote Soda

Would it be too much to say they're both scum?
This exchange is bad.

Vote: MacDougall

Unvote

Vote: Magua

If you stick by what you said, you should have no qualms voting Magua himself, right?

[EtherealCookie]

I messed up on that quote. Just click on Andrius' post link.

[EtherealCookie]

See, that's what I've noticed too, Andrius. No townie does use the word town cred. But why? Because they don't want to look suspicious, of course. Nor does any scum use the word town cred, to be honest. I think it's MacDougall just being kind of incompetent with not screaming out "god damn I'm suspicious." He uses word choices that draw negative attention.

As for roleplaying, the quality would probably be piss poor, and that tends to irk me with me given my elitism upon that matter.
Anyways, go ahead, re-read. I don't know about AgAR, to be honest. I find Magua to be a more compelling case at the current moment. The votes people take can tell you a lot about them, and Magua, a relatively active player, completely ignoring SC? That's a big slip up on his part.

[EtherealCookie]

At school. I'll make this short. Lynching Dougall is as stupid as lynching Soda. Stop sheeping. Be competent town. Don't repeat the same mistake.

[EtherealCookie]

In the end, you voted for an extremely obvious VI.

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: SodaSpirit17 (L-1)

This is your vote.
You were against Vezok because he was obviously VI. I don't see how you can be against Vezok for being VI but not SodaSpirit when he acted in the same manner.

And yes, I'm voting you, because I have little reason to suspect Andrius in comparison to you, or AGar for that matter. Gaining town credibility by defending someone who then gets lynched and pops town isn't a bad move at all for scum to do, and if it can be done with bussing your partner to further ensure your success, why not?

[EtherealCookie]

He's town for the same reason SodaSpirit was so obviously town.
New to the game/ VI Behavior =/= Scum.
We're five days into the game. Voting pattern and activity patterns are much better indicators of scum.

[EtherealCookie]

Buuut if you're soooo set on voting patterns and activity patterns leading the way to finding scum, well then why aren't you analyzing votecounts or activity?

Ehrm.
I have?
It's one of my reasons for voting Magua, buddy. Thanks for reading, though!

[EtherealCookie]

Can we just lynch Vezok already then, if nearly everyone agrees that he is scum? His behavior has been scummy as shit, and any decent scum player would've bussed him by now as well, so the "too many people willing to lynch" excuse isn't applicable here. His behavior has been scummy throughout the game. My reads are completely muddled at this point, but he radiates with scum, and is a good lynch choice. Manho is somewhat suspicious as well, but his behavior isn't that abnormal from my previous experiences with him.

[EtherealCookie]

Yes, Agar. I suggested the notion of lynching Vezok while keeping my vote on Magua. Sue me.
I wanted some reactions first.
This MacDougall lynch is so bad, and there's

definitely

scum on it. I like how Andrius said he'd be okay with lynching Magua, said he'd look over some reads and what not, but has remained voting MacDougall. I also like how he's defending Vezok despite his pretty scummy behavior.
Anyways, lynching MacDougall is a terrible idea.
I will push for the Vezok lynch now; his votes have continued to be opportunistic throughout. He has been behaving scummy for a long time, and he's been largely ignored for some reason. His meta suggests he isn't this blatantly scummy when town, so I refuse to accept the "he behaves this way" all the time nonsense. It's like he's not putting any effort in this game.

Unvote

Vote: Vezokpiraka

[EtherealCookie]

if its so bad why did you vote him? and why did you ignore me the first time I asked this?

@ Nero
Because I re-read. Yeah. When people re-read something, they sometimes develop new opinions. Shocker.
And I didn't notice it.

Magua:
I think nearly

everyone

is scummy at this point. Why Andrius over Vezok?
Andrius is suspicious, but as much as Vezok? I don't think so. I don't understand why people are convinced Vezok isn't scum just because his behavior is generally VI.
EmpKing behaved in a very VI manner too, and op, he was scum. Being bad doesn't make you town.

[EtherealCookie]

@ Magua
Vezok is just being terrible. His effort is minimal, like EmpKing. MacDougall's effort is not minimal. That's the difference between the two.

[EtherealCookie]

Trouble making up your mind as well, Magua?
I don't want to see MacDougall lynched. I would prefer a Vezok lynch. Seems like the latter isn't likely to happen, and given Andrius faked interest in pushing a Magua lynch, said he'd re-read everything, and yet really hasn't had anything to add, this is the most logical wagon to follow.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Andrius

[EtherealCookie]

Welp. Suspicions of Magua return. I recall him pushing for Manho's lynch last day too. He's very likely on the other scum team.

VOTE: Magua

[EtherealCookie]

Loyalist. Vanilla. No actions, obviously.