Mini 1250: That 70s Smalltown - GAME OVER

[iamausername]

/confirm

[iamausername]

So now I'm just waiting on EIGHT PEOPLE to make their selection so I can get the sweet, sweet dregs that nobody else wants to touch.

Good times.

[iamausername]

Wait, do I pick in thread or by PM?

Pick in thread, PM the next person on the list to let them know it's their turn.

[iamausername]

I'll take Midge.

PMing ConS.

[iamausername]

No need for random voting here, c'mon.

VOTE: kdowns

His role has by far the highest ratio of worth to scum/worth to town.

farside should definitely be saving her ability for taking Seacore's ability when he is inevitably killed before D3. (Even if he's scum, the SK will want to be rid of him too, so.) The only other role that I might see her taking is the tracker. She should not have the option of taking any role that would help her as scum in any way.

Quilford should be jailing Seacore every night. If Seacore is scum, it keeps him from making the kill, if he's town, it keeps him alive.

Everyone who has an action to perform should be performing it every night; the more limited scum are in who can make the kill for them, the better.

At some point, we're going to want to lynch MoI with all the scummiest players on the wagon, but that's something to save for a later day.

That's all I've got for now.

[iamausername]

I am not saying you should be the inevitable lynch. But whereas most games are forced to start with some random wagons or some contrived "scum tells" to get the ball rolling, the benefit/risk analysis of lynching your role gives us a good start to this game.

Seacore gets it.

He's looking pretty good, too; it's obvious that this position would be contraversial, because annoying people hate to have their sacred RVS interrupted too quickly, and obviously there are legitimate reasons to have concerns about it too. I could definitely see scum agreeing with my initial post, but I'm not sure that they'd want to take centre stage in pushing the argument. Scum Seacore would more likely leave it at his first 'in character' post, agreeing with me, but with plausible deniability as to how serious he was about it.

kdowns' response is harder to judge, because he'd get defensive either way. I think it's pretty much null.

I think Iam is possibly the more scummier one for now due to the fact that he actually brought this up as a case when the RVS had pretty much started.

If you think this, why are you voting for hiplop?

VOTE: kdowns

MoI is also scum. hiplop too.

Now to find the SK.

Why is kdowns scum?
Why is MoI scum?
Why is hiplop scum?

[iamausername]

Because there is serious discussion going on. In particular, discussion about the viability of a wagon on the person that you just happened to vote for. Is that a total coincidence?

What exactly do you expect to achieve by calling people scum for no reason whatsoever at this point in the game?

[iamausername]

iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me

When? What accusation?

Directing Town actions, especially minor ones like Bob’s inventions, overwhelmingly benefits Scum. The uncertainty of what is going to happen at Night is one of the things that keeps Scum honest. Having a full road-map of what is going to happen only lets Scum plan their Night actions more effectively.

Last time I played in a Smalltown game, town secured a guaranteed victory on D2 by coordinating night actions, so I think I can say with some certainty that you are wrong here.

In most games, co-ordinating night actions is a bad idea because it requires revealing the power roles to scum. In this game, everyone already knows who the power roles are. Not discussing what to do with them is a waste of that knowledge.

There are some roles, like the tracker, that shouldn't be directed at the moment, sure. But allowing a total free for all at night makes it a lot easier for scum to do whatever they feel like, just as much as planning out every single action would. The ideal is somewhere in the middle.

There are any number of roles that farside’s ability should consider if he is Town. Trying to limit it to only Tracker or Innocent Child Cop is rather foolish.

Let's see now.

Vengeful - I guess I can see a situation where we the numbers make it so we'll want to pull the 'scummy player lynching vengeful' deal twice, but in a situation where that would benefit us, there would probably be better plans available.

Neighbourizer - Pretty useless. It's a confirmable night action, so all it does for scum is tie them up at night, but it doesn't really help us either.

Invisible Townie - Massive scum benefit, but it's unavailable anyway.

Double Voter - Hell no.

Kill Delayer - Minor benefit to either scum or town. I guess it might be worth considering this one.

Self-Watcher - What's the point? There's basically no one going to target her that she wouldn't know about anyway.

Jailkeeper - Way too beneficial to scum.

Inventor - Again, way too beneficial to scum. Could give her scum buddies an extra kill and bring Lylo forward by nullifying a town vote. No.

Copycat - Don't see any benefit to this. If there was a vig around, maybe, but there isn't.

Limited Bulletproof - Actually, since this doesn't affect the SKill, it's no use at all to scum, but it could still benefit an SK. Doesn't really help the town, anyway.

I mean, yeah, perhaps I'm being a little overzealous, but the main thing is that I don't want to give a scum farside any leeway to be taking a role like the Jailkeeper or the Inventor, which would be extremely beneficial to scum in late game.

But let’s talk about your theory that Leo’s ability is worth defending – a single Innocent role is useful but hardly game-breaking. Farside using the Universal Backup potentially on a role that doesn’t find scum is hardly optimal, IMO.

Furthermore your position that Caroline is worried about a single confirmed Innocent when she has to wipe out everyone is pretty laughable. Ooba’s Stardust SmallTown Mafia proves that the SK has to be shooting for scum as they can easily NK her or endgame her.

And even furthermore why would a “Mod innocent” given to theoretical scum Seacore be trustworthy in the first place?

TL-DR

: You are over-valuing the importance of Seacore’s role.

You may be right here. I think you're under-valuing it somewhat - by D3, there will be few enough players left that a confirmed innocent would probably have a pretty huge impact, but somehow I didn't consider the fact that a scum Seacore's result wouldn't be trustworthy.

Still think JKing him would be the smart choice, though. He's worth protecting if he's town, and he's worth blocking if he's scum. Even if scum know he's being blocked, it causes them a headache if he's their only guy without another night action to perform, because they'll have to fakeclaim an action to make the kill in that situation.

His role has by far the highest ratio of worth to scum/worth to town.

So what. We don’t lynch on set-up speculation. Sorry, that’s scum-talk right there.

It's not setup speculation. It's setup fact.

Oh, so even if I am the Towniest Town that ever Towned you think policy lynching me based on role is a good idea instead of just lynching the actual scummy players you are wanting on my wagon? Good to know. In this case that means 'Thanks for the scummy position'.

Yes. Unless you are literally 100% confirmed town somehow, you should be lynched at some point. Your role = free lynch. Sorry if you're scum and you picked a guaranteed to be lynched role, but you know, you only have yourself to blame.

What was your thought process for picking Vengeful townie?

Seeing as how roles were picked before alignments were handed out, what is the point of this question?

[iamausername]

Last time I played in a Smalltown game, town secured a guaranteed victory on D2 by coordinating night actions, so I think I can say with some certainty that you are wrong here.

So you want to coordinate Night actions Day 1 before lynch when it worked on DAY 2 in the game you are talking about?

But please elaborate on the facts of that game. Was it played here? If so link? What happened Day 1? What was the role make-up of the game? Did it have a Serial Killer?

This'n here.

I was in a game where town was had a JK. This was American Dad Mafia. The role benefited the town. JK can used not only as protection but possibly jailing someone you find scummy in the hopes you stop someone from dying.
I don't see it just befitting scum.

I never said the JK

only

benefits scum. Just that it would benefit scum too much to allow you to take that role when there are other roles that would benefit town more and scum less.

In this setup the probable most powerful role a scum backup could take would be mine. Nothing like a surprise "Hey, you lynched me now I get an extra kill".

Inventor could give scum an extra kill without the need to be lynched to activate it, among other things, so.

@ConS

– So you think Quilford's play is sufficently scummy to warrant his lynch Day 1

as a JK

.

Why do you mention Quilford's role here? Haven't you been arguing the entire time that giving consideration to people's roles in deciding who to lynch is super scummy?

[iamausername]

You know what, I was going to make another zebra quote post responding to MoI's latest nonsense, but it seems like that would just be creating unnecessary noise preaching to the choir, so I'm just going to do this instead.

UNVOTE: kdowns
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

If anyone needs me to elaborate on my reasons, I will.

We don't want to hammer him without figuring out a) which roles are most expendable if town, and b) who is most likely to be scum in the unlikely event that MoI is actually town, because people high on those lists are the ones we want on the wagon.

for list a), I'd say

Invisible (kdowns)
Doublevoter (mb53)
Neighborizer (ConS)
Limited Bulletproof (me)
Copycat (kondi)
Replacement (farside)
Kill Delayer (jason)
Inventor (hiplop)
Jailkeeper (Quilford)
Limited Cop (Seacore)
Tracker (IceGuy)

Less sure how I'd order list b), but Quilford would definitely take the top spot.

[iamausername]

I find it incredibly scummy that iama is preparing a reads list in the "unlikely event that MoI is actually town". That reads heavily as scum distancing themselves from the flip. Why aren't we getting a list for the supposedky more likely event that MoI flips scum?

Because he's probably not going to vengekill his scumbuddies.

[iamausername]

I find it incredibly scummy that iama is preparing a reads list in the "unlikely event that MoI is actually town". That reads heavily as scum distancing themselves from the flip. Why aren't we getting a list for the supposedky more likely event that MoI flips scum?

Because he's probably not going to vengekill his scumbuddies.

Aaaaaaaand?

This means there is not much point in trying to figure out who is scum if MoI is scum for the purpose of deciding who should be on his lynching wagon.

Did you actually read post 186? Do you understand the purpose of the lists I was talking about there?

[iamausername]

Hey .. instead of playing ‘role utility guru’ why don’t you drop a list of 3 names who you think would be most likely scum when I do flip Town.

If you are town, I think scum would be very wary of getting onto your wagon for fear of being vengekilled, so I think they'd have trouble figuring out what to do in this situation. You getting lynched and taking out another townie is the best possible outcome for them, so they wouldn't want to do anything to discourage the wagon, but taking an active part in pushing it carries the risk of getting shot.

I think a town player who disagreed with the wagon, or didn't understand the case, or just thought they had a better case on someone else, would say something about it. Quilford and hiplop have both pointedly failed to address your wagon in any way, even when I specifically ellicited questions about the case by not explaining my vote. So they'd be my top two.

I have some degree of town read on every other active player, and there's really nothing much to separate the lurkers at this point, so take your pick from jason, kondi, kdowns and mb53 for the third slot.