Mini 1260 - Last Will Mafia III (Over)

StrangerCoug · Post Post #20 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:20 am

VOTE: Fishythefish

Cougars are better than fish.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #61 (isolation #1) » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:09 pm

UNVOTE: Fishythefish since the random voting stage is over and the vote's just gathering dust right now. I'll read more closely later; right now I'm tired and everybody that stands out to me reads somewhat town.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #63 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:42 pm

In post 62, Fishythefish wrote:@SV: you highly doubt I'm town? Why? Why aren't you voting me?

This is a good place for me to start right now.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

StrangerCoug · Post Post #80 (isolation #3) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:54 pm

In post 70, Amrun wrote:
In post 63, StrangerCoug wrote:
In post 62, Fishythefish wrote:@SV: you highly doubt I'm town? Why? Why aren't you voting me?

This is a good place for me to start right now.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

No, it isn't.

Why not? Shattered Viewpoint has a suspect, yet his vote's sitting idle. Why isn't he making use of his vote?

In post 74, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
Vote: Fishythesmellyfish

FoS: StrangerCoug

Need moar posting by absent peoples.

OMGUS for the lose.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #89 (isolation #4) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:20 am

The more I think about Amrun defending Shattered Viewpoint the way he is, the more I suspect the two are scumbuddies. I disagree with CooLDoG that Fishythefish is scummy, but there's not much to go on yet.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #91 (isolation #5) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:39 am

Explain. Right now you're just spewing out words without backing them up, which doesn't make you all that credible.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #94 (isolation #6) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:45 pm

In post 92, Amrun wrote:I'm expressing a town read on SV. It's partially meta-based. Woop de doo.
Explain the part that isn't meta-based, because I do not care about meta. Meta is manipulable. Therefore, I care only about the here and now: this game.

a) There is no reason for you to undermine my town read, especially this early game. Part of the reason I went after it so strongly was to see what would happen. People quick to tear down my read was one on the list - it's scummy.

Shattered Viewpoint thinks and acts independently of you. If he does scummy things like he's doing right now (voicing suspicion without voting), there is no reason to have a town read on him, especially one as rigid as yours.

b) I don't care if I'm credible at this stage of the game. I'm more credible than you, at least.

"I don't care about credibility right now as long as I'm more credible than you"? This is flippant at best.

c) Most importantly,
how would the interaction between me and SV ever make sense as scumbuddies in any universe ever?
You're assigning scum motivation that simply does not exist.

Scum cannot afford to lose their partners this early. Think about the size and the mechanics.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #105 (isolation #7) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:26 am

*whistles, not fazed by both of his scum suspects voting him*

StrangerCoug · Post Post #108 (isolation #8) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:45 am

Votes will faze me once they mean anything to me. You want me to talk about what I've done, give me a reason to.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #112 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:02 am

In post 111, Fishythefish wrote:SC's wild theory on Amrun/SV is wild. Can't see Amrun would say "yeah, SV is town" repeatedly with no explanation if they were buddies. I don't think this is a particularly scummy wrongness from SC - but I don't like his dismissals of the subsequent wagon. He's keen to emphasise that his wagon is full of scum and/or not serious.

Certainly they're not

ALL

scum, but when I feel I've already explained myself adequately (Shattered Viewpoint is scummy for not voting his suspect, end of discussion) and I still get votes for it, I'm going to hold firm to my beliefs.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #125 (isolation #10) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:45 pm

In post 118, Fishythefish wrote:@SC: in 112 you say SV is scummy for not voting his suspect. But what people are going after you for is your SV/Amrun link.

Why Amrun is so staunchly defending Shattered Viewpoint is well beyond me, hence why I'm making the link.

In post 118, Fishythefish wrote:And when they did that, your defences were "I don't mind scum voting me" and "this wagon is meaningless".

Conceded.

In post 118, Fishythefish wrote:Those just don't seem like the responses of somebody who I'd expect to be trying to make up their mind about whether Amrun and SV are town.

One of us is not understanding the other. My posts voice a belief in a Shattered Viewpoint/Amrun scumteam but I interpret this post as claiming that I am undecided.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #178 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:02 pm

Mod: You and the other players may have noticed this, and I'm still not going to declare a V/LA, but during the workweek it's easiest for me to post in the evenings MDT right now.

I'm going to go ahead and stop pursuing the Shattered Viewpoint-Amrun link. SV is not off the hook, but more compelling things are coming up in-game; namely, that I don't like whispersilk. Trying to extract reasoning out of her argument with chamber is like trying to turn lead into gold.

UNVOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

Un-Fos: Amrun

VOTE: whispersilk

StrangerCoug · Post Post #191 (isolation #12) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:42 am

I still stand by what I said. Shattered Viewpoint is still scummy for voicing suspicion and not acting on it by voting and I still don't know why Amrum defends him so strongly, but there are more important things to talk about than the Shattered Viewpoint-Amrun link.

In post 190, CooLDoG wrote:Also, should we disclose who got the 2x vote for now on? Or should we leave that up to the people who got it?

The person who got left with the dead person's vote is confirmed by the moderator. Rhinox has three votes while everybody else still has one. While that means that SV and Amrun have to be careful with that voting bloc of theirs and I have to be careful about what I'm doing, Rhinox still has to write up a case on me if he wants to make friends by hammering me.

For now, VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint for the same reason I voted him on Day 1, but that may change based on how Rhinox answers Darox's question and Darox answers CooLDoG's question. Amrun should still consider herself safe from me at the moment.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #193 (isolation #13) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:05 am

I just said that other things are more important right now than the link. Those "more important things" are Rhinox and Darox's reactions, which is why I want them.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #195 (isolation #14) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:31 am

I'm not. Pay attention.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #201 (isolation #15) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:04 pm

In post 197, Rhinox wrote:
In post 191, StrangerCoug wrote:Rhinox still has to write up a case on me if he wants to make friends by hammering me.

For now, VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint for the same reason I voted him on Day 1, but that may change based on how Rhinox answers Darox's question and Darox answers CooLDoG's question. Amrun should still consider herself safe from me at the moment.

What do you mean by make friends by hammering you?

It's going to look suspicious if you just plop all three of your votes on me arbitrarily as that denies town a lot of information. The mechanics may work a bit differently, but scumhunting is still the main way to do this—the mechanics, in fact, make this very important. I have very good reason to believe you know what makes a good case, what makes a bad case, and what makes just plain laziness. You have a lot of sway here!

I feel Rhinox's reaction to Darox's question as sensible, so I'm going to look at how Darox responds to the same thing.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #203 (isolation #16) » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:06 am

A case would be nice. I can't defend against what I can't see.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #207 (isolation #17) » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:48 pm

She had claimed, for one. For another, if you're voting someone after the RVS ends, you had better be fine with a rope around that person's neck. I saw her argument with chamber and I saw very little content come out of her side. From what I get, Darox is scummy and there's nothing else of use by the town. There's

PLENTY

of other things of use by other players.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #215 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:08 pm

In post 210, Rhinox wrote:coug did you know you were hammering whisper yesterday when you voted him/her?

Yes I did.

In post 211, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
In post 195, StrangerCoug wrote:I'm not. Pay attention.

You're not what? Please be clearer next time.

I'm not heavily into the notion that you and Amrun are scum together. It should have been clear in context that I was denying what you claimed I was doing.

In post 212, Fishythefish wrote:I really dislike SC's hammer here. It was early in the day, and the wagon on whisper was very much active - it's hard to believe anyone
wouldn't
want to see more of that slot before the end of the day. Particularly since SC never exchanged so much as a word with whisper. whisper just wasn't scummy enough to warrant that early a lynch, and SC being a serious lynch contender gives him a solid scum motivation.

If a person is scummy enough to warrant an early lynch, then a person is scummy enough to warrant an early lynch. It was crystal-clear to me that whispersilk was not going to scumhunt properly, and I do not regret what I have done, especially since I have modded a game where scum was quicklynched on Day 1.

In post 212, Fishythefish wrote:I also didn't like his early game play, where he just didn't look interested in determining whether his reads were right.

Could you provide examples please?

In post 212, Fishythefish wrote:I'm wondering about a "everyone leave your vote to Rhinox" strategy. Frankly, if he's scum I can't see us winning this game - there's no real way we could stop him getting a town lynch today, and tomorrow will be LYLO with the odds stacked against us at best. Leaving votes to him cements that, but things are so bad anyway that that's no big deal. If he's town, leaving votes to him really forces the scum to shoot at him, and that's a good thing if we have a doc/watcher/BG/etc., or if there's any obvtown for him to leave his votes to. Thoughts, anyone?

I'm leaning toward Rhinox-town, so I see no big concern here.

In post 213, Amrun wrote:If you think Rhinox is scum, then why are you not voting for him? I'm confused here.

I don't see where Fishythefish takes a stance either way in his last post. He is placing both options into consideration and discussing the consequences of Rhinox being each alignment.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #217 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:30 pm

In post 216, Fishythefish wrote:Did you hammer whisper because he wasn't going to scumhunt properly, or because you thought he was scum?

Both. My scum read on him stemmed from the lack of proper scumhunting out of whispersilk.

In post 216, Fishythefish wrote:By your early game play, I mean your fight with Amrun and SV. I didn't feel you were trying to read two players you thought were scum. We discussed this at the time - see 112, 125 and 129. Similar theme, actually - you seem far more confident in your reads than I'd expect given the actual information in the game.

Confidence is not a bad thing, Fishythefish.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #228 (isolation #20) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:44 am

In post 220, Amrun wrote:You do realize that quicklynch in your game was entirely scumdriven, right? Did you have any reason to think it was similar with whispersilk?

Any quicklynch will naturally arouse suspicions that scum are on the wagon, but nobody already on the wagon stood out to me as scum when I hammered.

In post 226, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
In post 197, Rhinox wrote:Hi I'm not Darox I'm the one with the 3 votes.

Someone better give me a rock solid town read today so I know who to send my votes to in the likely event of my death tonight.

In post 191, StrangerCoug wrote:Rhinox still has to write up a case on me if he wants to make friends by hammering me.

For now, VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint for the same reason I voted him on Day 1, but that may change based on how Rhinox answers Darox's question and Darox answers CooLDoG's question. Amrun should still consider herself safe from me at the moment.

What do you mean by make friends by hammering you? You were my random vote yesterday but I never found a place to move it and was fine with your wagon by the end of the day.
I have to be more careful today with my votes today
and I plan to look into things in more detail than I did yesterday. I don't think darox's question was serious and I was planning on answering it.

cooldog, you asked me a couple questions yesterday but day ended before I was able to answer did you still want answers?

I read your iso to see what you had to say about SC (the, you know,
leading wagon).
All there was is right here. Distancing? Perhaps.

And what do you mean by the bolded part?

And also, this, but you could've asked that in the QT, I suppose, and just re-asked here for show.

In post 210, Rhinox wrote:coug did you know you were hammering whisper yesterday when you voted him/her?

This is a very weak case on Rhinox. It was clear that his vote on me was random, and while he didn't pull it off and had only started talking about me in earnest since the day started, I fail to see how that makes us likely to be scumbuddies.

I'm very happy with where my vote is, Amrun being your scumbuddy or not.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #230 (isolation #21) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:47 am

No he is not.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #232 (isolation #22) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:00 pm

The less effort you put in actually convincing me that Shattered Viewpoint is town, the less I am going to listen to you. Give evidence of Shattered Viewpoint being town that has nothing to do with you or I will reconsider the two of you being linked.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #235 (isolation #23) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:23 pm

In post 234, Amrun wrote:Meta.

Useless, especially if Shattered Viewpoint is a good player.

In post 234, Amrun wrote:Reads.

Explain.

In post 234, Amrun wrote:Level of usefulness.

Explain.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #237 (isolation #24) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:53 pm

I still disagree that he's town, but I have the answer that I want from you.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #246 (isolation #25) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:47 pm

This town needs a swift kick in the butt.

Mod: Massprod please.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #249 (isolation #26) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:58 pm

Great. You're here. Now post something decent. You're my number two for lurking.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #262 (isolation #27) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:12 am

In post 256, Darox wrote:Everyone.

I'm pretty distrustful of you & Rhinox, and think SC is suspicious as hell, but everyone covers it pretty well.

If everyone is scum, then we might as well not be playing this. You are refusing to put any sort of effort into the game, and responding to CooLDoG's request to post useful content by quoting him only cements my scum read on you.

UNVOTE: Shattered Viewpoint
VOTE: Darox

While I'm typing, I don't understand the Rhinox-hate going around. Yes, we have to be careful how we write up our wills, but I fail to see how he's scummy, which is what I'm getting with the level of worrying about him going on.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #263 (isolation #28) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:20 am

Sorry—didn't catch CooLDoG's questions to me in that wall post of his.

In post 261, CooLDoG wrote:
In post 61, StrangerCoug wrote:UNVOTE: Fishythefish since the random voting stage is over and the vote's just gathering dust right now. I'll read more closely later; right now I'm tired and everybody that stands out to me reads somewhat town.

Okay SC, why did you unvote out of RVS and not have a vote to back it up? If you had a real scum read you would have voted for them. If you don't have a scum read, then you are still in RVS. Which is it?

Neither. The unvote was a precautionary measure against any crazy shenanigans while I rest up and read. It's the same logic as if I were replacing into the game with the obvious addition that I needed sleep, which meant that it would take longer than it usually takes me to get a read up.

CooLDoG wrote:
In post 63, StrangerCoug wrote:
In post 62, Fishythefish wrote:@SV: you highly doubt I'm town? Why? Why aren't you voting me?

This is a good place for me to start right now.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

Why not vote for fishy in the same post that you unvoted in?

Because I never viewed Fishythefish as suspicious, silly

StrangerCoug · Post Post #265 (isolation #29) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:30 am

Are you sure you're awake, CooLDoG?

StrangerCoug · Post Post #267 (isolation #30) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:31 pm

You just tried to refute that I ever saw Fishythefish as scummy by quoting my removing my RVS vote on him, his asking Shattered Viewpoint why he's not voting him, and my response to his post by voting... Shattered Viewpoint. How does the series of events you describe show that Fishythefish was on my scumdar? That is still a topic of confusion.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #268 (isolation #31) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:33 pm

EBWOP: that I never saw Fishythefish as scummy

StrangerCoug · Post Post #272 (isolation #32) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:59 am

In post 269, CooLDoG wrote:wait? What? I don't get what you are saying. DID YOU EVER SEE FISHY AS SCUMMY BEFORE YOUR RVS UNVOTE. IF YES, WHY DID YOU NOT VOTE BEFORE. AND WHY DID YOU SAY "this is a good place to start"?

IF NO, WHAT CHANGED IN ONE POST?

That is the question.

For the last time, no, I did not view Fishythefish as scummy. Ever. What changed is that I took the time to read the game.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #277 (isolation #33) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:21 am

Deadline's this upcoming Friday, if I'm doing my math right. Let's get a rope around someone, Darox preferably.

In post 274, CooLDoG wrote:Ohh, and when/if amrun flips scum, SV is the next lynch. Period.

I find Shattered Viewpoint scummier than Amrun, but lynching Amrun and then Shattered Viewpoint will answer whether my link is likely to be valid or not.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #279 (isolation #34) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:37 am

You have never presented a case on... anyone. The wagon on me is about as ridiculous today as it was yesterday.

Keep trying, but if you're going to take me down you will have to actually put some effort into this crap.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #288 (isolation #35) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:43 am

Rhinox's post is pretty good, and yeah. I'm not known for being the sharpest knife in the drawer. I know that's not an excuse, though—I really do put effort into this.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #315 (isolation #36) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:45 pm

If Darox is telling the truth, we know what theory of mine has been blown out of the water. It leaves me without a good read, though Amrun and CooLDoG would be the first two people I'd look at again—I still don't know why Amrun was defending Shattered Viewpoint so much and CooLDoG's spat with me over my Fishythefish read seems off.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #319 (isolation #37) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:43 pm

...Yeah. That's why I didn't unvote.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #331 (isolation #38) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:42 pm

I don't buy these shenanigans from Darox. An innocent on himself, a guilty on chamber (which we already know is false since chamber already flipped town), or no investigation at all? Why can't he just tell us what he did straight up without the fooling around? It's costing him credibility.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #333 (isolation #39) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:00 pm

I get the strategy behind a Night 0 self-investigation, but not even you believe you did that. The way I see claiming is to give people straight answers or eat rope, and you clearly want to eat rope.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #368 (isolation #40) » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:27 pm

Darox, if you are town but not a cop, I am going to sledgehammer your body into a million pieces. You don't lie as town.

I'm happy with the hammer.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #385 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:20 pm

No real objections. Go for it.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #387 (isolation #42) » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:21 pm

I'm vanilla.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #415 (isolation #43) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:41 pm

In post 395, CooLDoG wrote:I don't know how to actually put this... I'M A MOTHER FUCKING WATCHER! I guess that went well.

Okay... so yeah, lets go.

N1: Fishy, no visit.
N2: Gues who... RHINOX! And guess who targeted rhinox???????????????
Stranger Coug.

vote:SC

OK, CooLDoG, give me a good reason to kill my only supporter. Right now.

VOTE: CooLDoG

Not buying Amrun's claim either, for that matter. I understand why she didn't want to counterclaim Darox, but if she claims she's been trying to kill me since Day 1, why the hell didn't she investigate me?

StrangerCoug · Post Post #420 (isolation #44) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:53 pm

In post 417, Amrun wrote:Use your brain. Why would I have only investigated night 0? Hmm?

Because you're too lazy to come up with legitimate reasons to target other people. Your suspicion of me seems never to have gone away, yet your only investigation is on Night 0, where we have no info—the only benefit gained is a clear. If you sincerely thought I was scum, you would have made use of your role and investigated me. If I came up innocent, that narrows down the pool. If I came up guilty, you could use that against me and use the information gained from my Mafia flip to potentially determine my buddy. But you, by your own admission, never did. If you're telling the truth—and this is my opinion regardless of what I am—you're the laziest cop I've ever seen during my time on this site. As all we have is a staunch defense of Shattered Viewpoint to work on and no real information from you to determine scum, I'm not inclined to believe that you are telling the truth.

It's quite the bravado that both you and CooLDoG fakeclaimed. However, neither of you think things through. Both of you can die.

Preview edit:

In post 419, Amrun wrote:It was pretty fucking explicit... I'm 1-shot, hello. The only way for me to GUARANTEE I got to both use my shit and share my results was do it night 0 (I didn't know if scum had a kill but knew that if they did, they were highly unlikely to target either me or SV).

I saw SV as a likely endgame player, and an innocent on him would go a long way.

I figured to be dead night 1, since I was SO FREAKING OBVIOUS on day 1... But my idea was that as soon as I flipped cop, everyone would put 2 and 2 together if they hadn't already.

So you used your one-shot ability when it was the

LEAST FREAKING USEFUL!?

Yeah. Die.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #425 (isolation #45) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:13 pm

In post 423, Amrun wrote:What a sad defence, SC.

Why didn't I investigate you later? BECAUSE I HAD ALREADY USED MY SHOT.

And now you have little support for your cop claim. I obviously believe it's false, CooLDoG believes that you should have claimed the innocent earlier than you did, and Shattered Viewpoint is entertaining the thought but thinks it unlikely.

In post 423, Amrun wrote:You can whine all you want about how you would have done it differently as town (and I did debate with myself on whether to use it n0 or not), but the fact of the matter is that this is LyLo and you're being caught by my "unuseful" cop shot by PoE.

I'm "being" caught? As in I'm in the process? Shouldn't I be already, according to you? I can't make any sense out of you anymore.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #437 (isolation #46) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:41 pm

In post 433, Amrun wrote:Had I not had a result on SV, he may have been lynched any day, especially day 1, and he would be a prime target for you guys right now (especially since he's a direct opposition to SC with the difference in vanilla claims).

"Vanilla townie" is just my standard phrasing, as if Shattered Viewpoint saying he is a "townperson" makes a difference in the first place.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #441 (isolation #47) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:45 pm

In post 438, Amrun wrote:p-edit: Sure, it's your standard phrasing, but it's not the mod's.

I don't care; I don't lynch over minor points like that.

StrangerCoug · Post Post #446 (isolation #48) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:04 pm

I am done wasting my time.

Fishythefish is the only confirmed person here. "Vanilla townie" and "townsperson", in this context, are exactly the same thing. "Vanilla", by definition, means that a person does not have a power role, and if Shattered Viewpoint had one, he'd have claimed it by now. Therefore, I see what we claimed as equivalent. If Fishythefish is confirmed, I believe Shattered Viewpoint despite his wording not matching mine, and I know what I am, guess who that leaves?

StrangerCoug · Post Post #466 (isolation #49) » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:32 am

I thought my gambit was going to work beautifully. It failed.

I need to get better at being Mafia...

StrangerCoug · Post Post #478 (isolation #50) » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:57 pm

Hey, iPhones have been known to produce worse results than that.

By the way, Fishythefish—why did you give your votes to Amrun instead of CooLDoG? The fake tracker claim incriminating me was part of a gambit to get you to leave your votes to CooLDoG and I want to know more about how it backfired.