NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[ZeL1nK]

VOTE: DavidParker

I only signed up to this game so I could lynch him. Help me out.

[ZeL1nK]

yo, catching up.

Town lists are awful. You know who likes finding town? Scum. This is always a red flag for me when someone looks for town over scum.

You are wrong.

[ZeL1nK]

Because you are.

OK. Thread so far is an enormouse bundle of nullness. Zdenek's policy lynch and then retracting of said policy lynch means nothing and isn't an alignment tell. I don't like (or agree with) what he said about pops but that's a different matter, and I can somewhat understand his thinking there - it's not necessarily scummy. Beck's arguing about shit that doesn't even matter and it's distracting but not an alignment tell.

Let's start here.

Unvote

VOTE: Hiraki

I haven't liked any of his posts so far.

[ZeL1nK]

ZeL1nk, how am I going to tell the difference between you and Zdenek?

You can call me Earl.

[ZeL1nK]

This is the only reasonably convincing post I've seen against zdenek. Thank you, sorgster.

Um, sorgster's case isn't "reasonably convincing" at all...

Are you saying you don't think that Zdenek would suggest a PL as town (possibly as a way of gauging reactions, possibly for some other reason) and then back off from it after he'd seen some of the reactions to it, making it clear that he was never serious in the first place?

Because I can.

It doesn't necessarily mean he is town and did do this as town, but it's not a "reasonably convincing" case for him being scum...



Refresh me on your reasons for your vote, Pine.

[ZeL1nK]

Because I can see that being the case*

[ZeL1nK]

I'm paying attention. It doesn't change what I said. You're interpreting it a particular way. I didn't see anything "wishy-washy" about the way he "defended" it or the way he "deflected" attention (I disagree with who he suspects, but I can understand his thought process here).

Do you think Zdenek is scum?

[ZeL1nK]

I don't have any really solid reads yet.

Not even me? I'm obvtown. You should call me town.

[ZeL1nK]

What the fuck? I'm obvtown, why would you vote for obvtown? That's scummy.

[ZeL1nK]

Why are you voting obvtown?

[ZeL1nK]

I don't get it. Is this opposite day or something?

I'm obvtown, why are you voting for me?

[ZeL1nK]

prod dodging

these are my town reads: sorgster revenus pine beck slandaar iiaun shattered
these are my scum reads: hiraki theamatuer

need more hiraki votes

[ZeL1nK]

Who has a town read on pops and why? Dude is posting soooooo much IIoA it's not funny.

unvote

VOTE: pops

[ZeL1nK]

also, revenus wagon sucks

[ZeL1nK]

actually, sky too. fuck, half the game seems to be jumping up and saying "LYNCH ME, LYNCH ME".

I could get behind sky wagon or theam wagon, too. Feel like riding this one out for a while and seeing where it goes, though.

[ZeL1nK]

This game would be easier for you if you just accept the fact that I'm obvtown.

[ZeL1nK]

I think someone is jealous that I'm obvtown.

[ZeL1nK]

eh, your reads are mostly in line with mine. nothing special. you just put a lot more effort into explaining it. none of my reads have really changed much over the last few pages, still have the same reads as I did whenever I last stated them, ius ops moving from null->scum.

[ZeL1nK]

I forgot about this game. Apologies. Give me 24 hours to catch up, been busy.

[ZeL1nK]

OK. My schedule has been fucked. Catching up now. 28 pages behind, so will be a while.

[ZeL1nK]

unvote

VOTE: vijay

Putting my vote here while I read. At p25 now.

I'm sort of just writing down what I think of people's alignment without taking any notes. If there's something major that happens between p25 and now that someone wants my opinion on, tell me now.

beck town
revenus town
slandaar town (?)
sorgster town
pine town
screaming hawk scum (?)
hiraki ? (? ? ?)
iaaun ? (? ? ?)
theam scum (?)
zdenek town (?)
pops ? (? ? ?)
sky ? (? ? ?)
soda scum (?)
thad town (?)
bv town (?)
shattered town (?)
vijay scum

Anyway, marching on.

[ZeL1nK]

btw i'm going to nightvig you beck

You don't announce that. Doc on Revenus, please.

oh, right. funky is in this game. he's town, too.

[ZeL1nK]

er ignore that quote, dunno why it randomly quoted that.

Anyway,

funkybike1 (4): bvoigt, theamatuer, Sky, SodaSpirit17

At least one, maybe two scum on funky here. Composition of this wagon is bad.

[ZeL1nK]

btw i'm going to nightvig you beck

You don't announce that. Doc on Revenus, please.

I'm up to p36, I have to stop here and continue this later.


I've found that skipping every post by Beck and Revenus halves the amount of posts I have to read and doesn't change anything. #efficient-scummer

Not much has changed in my reads. Slandaar I feel a little worse about, haven't liked his attack on Thad. bv I feel a little better about, comments to and about funky look townish. No one else has changed.

[ZeL1nK]

Revenus (5): DavidParker, Shattered Viewpoint, iamausername, Beck, funkybike1

You called this wagon horseshit. That's David, you and 3 people you think are town.

Do you think David is scum? Or do you think scum are completely avoiding the Revenus wagon for some reason?

[ZeL1nK]

Sorry, can I get the cases on me? So at least I can do something.in this game?

You could pretend you're town and look like you're scum hunting. That's always fun.

[ZeL1nK]

OK. I'm up to date. My reads are pretty much the same as they were on the previous page.

I'll get to doing some proper analysis later.

[ZeL1nK]

Well, apart from the fact tat your list is likely to be entirely town, That post was over a day ago. You complained you have nothing to do. Why not start with... oh, I don't know... your reads on the rest of the players in the game? There's only like... 18 people you're not talking about in that post. You'll come up with something.

[ZeL1nK]

I fuckng swear if we take every player in this game whose alias begins with "S" and lynch them, we'll nail most of the scum team.

unvote

VOTE: SodaSpirit

So anyway, vijay's giant wall and recent posts actually make me think he's town.

Getting a little tired of slandaar v thad and I'm probably going to skim or completely skip their posts until I think I want to lynch one of them.

I also think NS reads are good... In that, if you take his reads and go in the complete opposite direction, you're very likely to find scum. That said, NS, give me your 3 top town reads. I want them lynched D1/D2/D3.

I'd mention Beck but he's an attention whore and ignoring him for the rest of the game seems like a good option.

Does anyone think sodaspirit is anything other than scum? Tell me now so I can line up lynches.

[ZeL1nK]

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

You're right, that's partially why I was fine with my vote on him when he was like "lol what's teh case on me? i have nothing to dooooooooooo" but his posts after that made me feel better about him. Maybe I'm just a sucker for someone that looks like they're trying and isn't taking part in back-and-forth derpfests.

At the very least, I don't think it's worth pursuing him atm over other players like soda.

---

In other news, screaminghawk proving he's town yet again in every post since #1272.

skipping sorg's posts now. I have a bigger "don't read their posts" list than I usually do in this game.

He's voting vijay so he's ok by me. Why have people started focussing on him? Is he the "in" lurker, the "cool" lurker to vote for now?

No. I'm voting him because I had a change of heart about vijay and soda's vote on vijay made me realise I don't even know who the fuck he is. So I ISOd him and saw nothing I liked. It's not that he's lurking, it's that he's active lurking.

Just between you and me, don't tell anyone else, I'm really just vote-hopping to see what sticks. I

do

think there's a decent chance he's scum, but I'm more doing it to see what others think about him. That said, what do you think about Soda?

[ZeL1nK]

^Not sure if I agree. Why didn't you just ask us instead of some backhanded wagon hopping maneuver?

Because I think he's scum, ya fkn idiot. Read.

[ZeL1nK]

You can't have both son.

........

Yes, I can.

like you're trying too hard to justify you're wagon hop.

OK, that's great, do you think I'm scum or is this just active lurking in hopes of people overlooking you?

What do you think of Soda?

[ZeL1nK]

Continue. I've been kind of depressed and I need a good laugh.

[ZeL1nK]

best approach to mastin: don't ask questions, just nod and pat him on the head and say "'atta boy" then go back to doing what you were doing

[ZeL1nK]

why do you continue to

pull attention from vijay


Ever since his pressure relieved he has been active lurking.

Hey.

I've got popcorn. If you wanna hound him, I'm all eyes. Go ahead.

I see what you're saying about the active lurking, I just don't think that makes him scum.

Do you think Soda is town?


@Thad,

OK, lurker, got it. What's your read on him, though?

[ZeL1nK]

lol opportunism and cognitive dissonance. I've gotta hand it to you, Rev, in the last couple of days of silence, I was drifting back towards my early Town read on you, chalking your bad reactions and such up to a reactionary personality (I have a small amount of that myself - see my early arguments with Beck.) But you've had days to cool off, and are still making slips.

What slips? You accidentally just called Beck Town with your attempts to cover up the "we're not going to kill you" slip.

This is terrible.

I know I've done shit like this before as town, when someone amazingly scummy says "lol I'm going to be NKed" and I've replied with something like "scum isn't going to NK you".

Add rolefishing into the evidence.

This is even worse, because it was clearly sarcasm...

Jesus fucking christ, my town read on you evaporated in a single post. That's quite an achievement.

---

It saddens me that ta, one of the scummiest players in the game, is one of the only people not taking the opportunity to attack Rev for this.

[ZeL1nK]

Yeah, that's my point, though. It's weird that one of my bigger scum reads is one of the only ones not trying to capitalise on the "slip"

[ZeL1nK]

You're not seeing the scumslip, Zel1nk.

Oh, I knew exactly what you were referring to, and I know I've said similar stuff as town, so I know it isn't a scum slip. It's a frame-of-mind-slip and doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of Revenus's alignment.

If you've ever talked to one of your major suspects and considered the hypothetical that they're actually town, then you've probably made a similar "slip" in a past game.

An example? Have you ever told a scum suspect that they're "wrong" or something along the lines of "lynching me is bad" or whatever? Or seen town do this?

This happens when you forget to add the clause "In the hypothetical universe in which you are town..." before every sentence because it's assumed the person you're talking to understands what you mean without saying it.

It's not a scum slip.

So you know he's town? Another scumslip I believe.

I hope you're happy, DarthYoshi. Because I can't insult people in this game anymore, there is now broken glass all over my room from the shit I threw against the wall reading this Fu- this very nice and not-completely-stupid individual's post.

woosah

woosah

sorgster, you are wrong.

[ZeL1nK]

Does anyone know if there's like a feature where I could block a hypothetical poster (let's call him "Forgstar") so that I never have to read their incredibly stupid posts and don't develop suicidal urges because of lost faith in humanity?

I mean no offense to any real person/s, this is just a hypothetical question I'm asking out of the blue with no relation to any player in this game. Don't modkill me.

[ZeL1nK]

This wagon that developed earlier in the game is poison:

funkybike1 (6): bvoigt, theamatuer, Slandaar, Sky, SodaSpirit17, vijay2vasandani

Any name on that list of players voting for funky (minus maybe bv, I like him, sorta) is a good vote. Even vijay, who's doing everything he can to nullify and reverse my recently formed town read on him.

[ZeL1nK]

SODA LYNCH IS A FUCKING COP OUT LYNCH. PLS PUT VOTES BACK ON SLANDAAR OR VIJAY. THESE ARE ACCEPTABLE LYNCHES, SODA IS NOT!

Does this mean you think he's town?

[ZeL1nK]

eh, I'm not particularly enthused by the slandaar wagon. I think he's town.

I could hop on the vijay wagon if the soda wagon dies. He really has just been active lurking since that big reads post.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm fine with lynching anyone but me. Add 1 point to everyone in the game for that poll.

[ZeL1nK]

Can you explain why you have a strong scum read on [sodaspirit]?

It's not a

strong

read. His ISO is just scummy.

He does very little in the way of giving reads. He just hops onto popular wagons and goes back to lurking. The only thing that makes me hesitant to outright call him scum is that he just doesn't have enough posts to make a proper judgment and I can

maybe

see it from the perspective he's town.

---

Anyway, I lost interest in how this day turns out a long time ago. I just want it to end in a flip ASAP.

[ZeL1nK]

Btw if pine is actually scum, I'm gonna be really pissed I was right and told I was stupid.

Hey, regardess of whether or not you're right, fact still stands.

Anyway, let's lynch ScreamingHawk.

That's a good lynch.

unvote

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

Do I need to explain this?

Also willing to lynch the first person that says we can't lynch him because it's close to the deadline because there's 3.5 days (I think?) and he's a way better lynch than Slandaar.

[ZeL1nK]

*shrug*

Well, then lynch pops. I'm down with that, too.

unvote

VOTE: pops

[ZeL1nK]

How is it still D1 at 80 pages?

Oh, right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEjJ4Ecy9Q

Let's not lynch Revenus or Slandaar. Any other viable lynch is fine, really.

See that thing hiding over there in the corner whimpering? That's D1. It wants to be put out of its misery.

[ZeL1nK]

I have a plan for today. This plan involves two things.

The first thing it involves is lynching someone. The second thing it involves is that someone being scum. As such, we are not lynching Revenus or Pine today.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

A good place to start.

pops, sky, and others I can't remember off the top of my head without rereading would also be good places to put your vote.

[ZeL1nK]

by the way, that actually looks more like two vig shots than anything, and speculating on setup at this point is stupid and pointless,

especially

prior to scum flipping.

[ZeL1nK]

catching up soon

[ZeL1nK]

I spoiler walled a big catchup post coz I've missed 10 pages and feel kind of guilty.

Spoiler: p84

Why? I don't read scum in his iso at all.

In your own words why screaming hawk over anyone else?

*shrug*

It was really more a gut feeler vote than anything. I have (had) no grand reason for it other than PoE from town reads and gut based on play that doesn't look town. I could care less about his lurking, it's the actual content that worries me.

Unfortunately, I haven't been as active as I originally planned to be today so I haven't been there to follow up on this and make use of my vote. :/ Oh well.

@ zellink: disagree about two vig shots since this is extremely unlikely.

Are you trying to say that scum have no kill, or they're trying to help town here.

Two people I didn't mind seeing dead turned up dead. 'twas a joke. I like to think I'm funny, don't destroy the illusion.

Velzanath's defense of ScreamingHawk makes no sense at all. I's starting there today.

Need elaboration on this. What defense didn't make sense and why?

Also, TheAD and Slaandaar were going against each other a lot day 1. Do you guys think that's town on town or scum on town?

town-town were my thoughts yesterday.

Spoiler: p85

Why are you so sure scum killed one and vig killed the other?
VOTE: Funky

bad

I was apparently pretty offtarget yesterday, so I'll put some thought into things today.

As in, your reads yesterday were thoughtless or as in your thoughts today will somehow be more accurate?

THAd is seeming a lot more suspicious because of it.

You think Thad is suspicious because he was attacking Slandaar yesterday?

dat's some amazing scumhunting there, sir.

That funkybike doesn't see that indicates that he's not looking at it from a Town perspective.

.... vote: Funky

...

Not really. It's indicative of him having a different opinion to the general consensus and nothing more.

Just because a majority of people think a player is scummy, doesn't mean the things that player is doing are

actually

scummy, or that everyone else must agree with this.

This is a reallllly, realllllllllllllly weak vote.

Spoiler: p86

Also, you're WIFOMing WIFOM. Nicely scummed.

This is weak followup.

If there are in fact two scumteams, it's an important thing for town to know.

It's not important to speculate about prior to flips, though.

Do you think funky had a townread or a scumread on Hiraki? If he had a scumread on Hiraki he wouldn't have those quotes at his fingerprints, the lazy player he is. If he had a townread, then I don't see how he would regard Hiraki as an "easy mislynch".

This is a bad post for a lot of reasons. I don't even know where to start, actually. There's just so much wrong with this.

(Mastin is particularly dangerous when he progresses, and gets more so as the game progresses)

ha ha ha, you are hilarious.

This is why I think Funky might be scum. Funky's team discussed Hiraki, but decided he was a bad target. That put him in a "why would he be NKed?" mindset. Once he'd stated that, he had to backtrack and call Hiraki's D1 performance Towny, which is ridiculous.

This is pretty terrible speculation.

This is all funky had to say about Hiraki on D1. Noncommittal, and it doesn't even remotely set up the hard defense we're seeing now. Funky's exaltation of Hiraki today is fabricated.

Um.

A: Hiraki was prob vigged
B: I wouldn't have vigged Hiraki
A: wat
B: I thought he was town
A: y
B: _reasons_
A: wow, that hard defense of him today is scummy.

Yerp.



doo dee doo

skimming the rest of the posts on this page. pine's posts are bad, pops's posts are bad, maxous's posts are okish (except that he comes to the conclusion that funky is scum, bad), bv's posts are sensible, ta's post is opportunistic.... and vijay's posts are crap on a stick.

Spoiler: p87

He's a little more active Funky.
I like lynching people that post little first. That way, on the off case that Im wrong, we lose little in terms of reads and activity.

It's like you're not even trying to hide that you're scum. Wow.

Because I doubt that scum Funkybike has the nerve to make the fake Vig claim

If his claim was in seriousness I'd agree. But considering it probably wasn't, it's null, except that he probably thought he's hilarious. I hate pricks who think they're funny when they're not (inb4 "CD")

Pine's case on Funky is mediocre.

Notice a pattern - can you find a case from Pine that

isn't

mediocre?

Not that I'm suggesting others (or even myself) are making

better

cases, but I'm not going to pretend a case I make is good when it's complete shit. All of Pine's cases have been complete shit and he makes out as though they're solid gold. *sigh*

I think that funky was told by his scum partners to claim vig if felt threatened.

... Are you suggesting daytalk or did this happen pre-game? Why does this even seem plausible to you?

This is the single scummiest sentence I have ever had the joy of reading.

OK, you are without a doubt town for being the first (and only) person other than myself to notice this sentence and how scummy it is.

Vig isn't usually a claim scum make because it can be confirmed true or not true. Why would the presence of two scum teams make funky's team tell him to claim vig?

Well they might have thought that town didn't know the presence of two scum teams, so if they noticed two kills, they'd think vig/SK

Jesus christ...

I... I don't even know what to say about this...

A joke that caused everyone to come off him for no good reason.

It wasn't the claim itself that had any meaning, it's the context of the claim. It's hard to explain this properly if you don't get it.

---

Sky's #2173 is scummy.
theam's #2174 is just as bad.

not commenting on p88. nothing noteworthy on this page except that Pine v Beck is just as boring as it was a couple thousand posts ago. pops' side commentary is funny.

Spoiler: p89

Zel1nk what do you think of the game?

It's boring and I'm having trouble maintaining interest in it.

---

OK, so as of #2209, this is the Pine wagon...

Pine (5): Revenus, sorgster, Beck, zdenek, Velzanath

Just making a mental note of this for now.

btw I support a Pine lynch to some degree. He's around null-scum for me

To what degree and why?

---

#2214 is the first post I've seen from vijay that is actually logical and I can agree with. #2041 was a bad, bad post.

Pine gets way too much of an increase in readability from other flips to actually lynch him today. We need to look elsewhere. Do you have any partners in mind for Pine, beck?

This is... interesting. And totally pointless soft defense of Pine.

I don't understand the town motivation behind this post.

I can see pops-scum thinking "hehe I'm going to defend Pine here without committing to a read on him and try to sound like voice-of-reason town" but I can't see pops-town saying this because it makes no sense from the perspective you're town.

Pops and pine are buddies.

It's far more likely pops-scum = Pine-town, actually. Or at least Pine-not-scum-of-the-same-faction-as-pops.

Spoiler: p90

sorgster-Solid logic and scumhunting.

You've got to be shitting me. Elaborate. Now.

stop wasting time with a list of reads, as I said way back, they are useless and they are just another attempt to appear to do something than actually doing something.

What are you actually suggesting Pine does? (other than "lay down and die!")

No matter what he does, you're going to find some way to spin it so that he's scum.

Out of interest, who do you think is scum with Pine and who would you think is scum if Pine is town? And what do you think of the people on his wagon?

[Revenus has] been lurking, trying to get people to forget how scummy he was Day One.

Slaandar's iso says he thinks funky, pine/SV, max, and soda to be scum.
I suggest everyone to relook over these characters.

Nobody can get all the scum right in one try. We should use the fact that Slandaar was a confirmed townie (as he’s dead and modkilled into a neutral survivor), and rethink on his suspicions.
I’m not asking anyone to blinding sheep a dead person, but to reread these people and think for themselves.

So in other words, go about the game as you normally would, meaning your suggestion is fucking useless and pointless.

Great deflection pine but can you please respond to zdenek's case on you first?

^ Fuck this gif is amazing. It encompasses everything I feel when I read any of sorgster or theam's posts.

theam
zdenek
revenus in one team

pine and 2 others in the other team.

Spoiler: p91

Pine has interacted with nearly every player in the game, so flips of other players gives lots of information about his slot. Lynching a less active player is a better way to maximize information, since later flips aren't going to tell us much more about them.

bad

sorgster is pretty scummy. it's a combination of gut and him seeming to take an unnatural view of every situation, it reads like newbscum.

He's not scummy, just the hugest fucking [edited out on threat of modkill] but (unforunately) is probably town.

thamlynch is super lame and makes Pine look bad. I don't expect it to maintain steam, though.

Elaborate.

VOTE: vijay
Seems like he's rushing things and hopping onto a hot wagon.

...

90 pages and this is all you have to say about anything?

Comment on the rest of the game, I dare you. Pretend you're town.

Guys, is Revenus really the type of player to ever remain quiet as town? Look at Beck-- he resolved not to post for a while, but didn't succeed. This is textbook scum lurking.

I don't really think he's lurking because he's scum.

I'm not completely sure why he

is

lurking, but I think he's town.

Spoiler: p92

Why yes I don't take kindly to people who just decide to lurk without any reason.

Because he was talking and now he basically did a 180 turn in playstyle.

bad

getting bored reading through this now so just going to keep it short here.

#2281 is town
#2282 is town
#2283 is scum
#2284 is town++
#2285 is town, but still bad
#2286 is bad, ?:\?
#2287 is town, but very bad
#2289 is horrible, if I could be bothered finding link to headdesk gif again, it would be dedicated to this post
#2290 is scum+bad

Yeah. I really dont get why most people aren't wanting to lynch funky.

He's town, just bad. Good scapegoat for you, though.

What's your read on pops, btw?

Spoiler: p93

I do not support Velzanath lynch.

What lynches do you support again? (+why?)

Scum are highly unlikely to claim VT this early.

No... He's town, but that's a bad reason to think he's town.

Anyway, I don't particularly expect people to read through that, but it's there. There's questions and stuff spread throughout, but I'm not going to ardently pursue the answers.

As for reads;

Town List

:

thad
velz
maxous
SV
vijay (weak read on this one)
zde
rev
funky
beck

Scum List

:

pops
theam

Pine List

:

Pine

The Rest

:

meh


pops wagon sounds good.

VOTE: pops

[ZeL1nK]

one of lurc/screaminghawk is scum
sorgster makes sense as scum
sky is prob scum
iaaun prob town

[ZeL1nK]

someone update me on why rev has 8 votes. has he claimed scum or is this the same retarded shit from D1?

[ZeL1nK]

Change of plyaystyle from active to lurking

And...?

[ZeL1nK]

sorgster is pretty scummy. it's a combination of gut and him seeming to take an unnatural view of every situation, it reads like newbscum.

He's not scummy, just the hugest fucking [edited out on threat of modkill] but (unforunately) is probably town.

sorgster makes sense as scum

Elaborate.

One was based on my read, one was based on half-assed VCA I did in my head while going through D1 votecounts. He frequently appears on wagons with lots of my town reads voting a town read. Thus he makes sense as scum. My read on him is that he's a [insert word that will get me modkilled] and far too scummy to be scum, as much of a fallacy as that supposedly is.

Couldn't revenus and beck be bussing each other on the same scumteam?

You are so insightful. Share more of your wisdom, please.



At the bottom of p94. Why aren't people lynching theam?

unvote

VOTE: theamatuer

He claims scum in every.. fucking.. post..

And people are ignoring it for some reason.


@pops,

p95 is another example of why sorgster makes sense as scum. The 4th of a chain of votes on Revenus, who is most likely town, right after voting Pine because Pine called Beck conftown...

I hate players like him. They're impossible to read because they're so bad as town that they look like scum.

ftr, i'd be totally cool with lynching him. It's a

far

better lynch than Rev, at the very least, and it's

very, very, very

pro-town, regardless of his flip.

also the fact that I can't tell whether he's dumb-town who's convinced there's 2 scumteams or scum who knows there's 2 scumteams is disconcerting.

---

@maxous

briefly skimmed you saying you were going to do something with my wall. forget or cbf or is it coming?


---

"...bus someone like me" sounds like a scum PR, now that I look at it again.

it actually sounds like some guy who's arrogant...

and theam is very scummy and is an acceptable lynch as well.

You should help me get him lynched, then.

[ZeL1nK]

{vijay2vasandani, Velzanath, sorgster, Shattered Viewpoint, funkybike1, iamausername}

There's 2 or 3 scum in this part of the Rev wagon.

I'm going to go over sorg's ISO when I'm drunk or high or something and see if I can get through it without killing myself.

And then if I'm still alive, I'll decide whether he's worth pursuing today.

Something in the next 12 hours.

Now are people going to lynch funky or what?

no. maybe. I'd need to be extra hammered to want to go through his ISO after sorgser's.

[ZeL1nK]

@Zelink, I switch votes a lot in every game I play(Look at any game I've played in). I don't care if people think it's scummy. Applying pressure is good.

You're not "applying pressure," you're playing like a VI (and I'm giving you a lot more credit than I should when I say "playing like").

The vote switching isn't even the issue, it's the

reasons

. That, and the fact that almost every wagon you've been on thus far, you've been on a town read of mine on a wagon with other town reads of mine. Almost too much of a coincidence.

ThAD, you've never stated why you think rev is town.

That's funny. You never stated why you think he's scum.

Granted, you may have had some theory about bussing and you may have mentioned something about Revenus 50 odd pages ago halfway through D1, but that doesn't explain why you're currently voting him.

Why is Revenus scum?

If revenus is scum, then ThAd is definitely his partner

Why?

I've decided I'm willing to settle for a theamateur lynch if needs be.

*shrug*

I'm cool with a sorg lynch, too. His posts get worse and worse and I have very little tolerance left.

[ZeL1nK]

how many votes does sorgster have?

[ZeL1nK]

According to the flavour, there are two scumteams, named "Mean Guys Mafia" and "Rolling Heights Gang".

sorgster's post here is pretty obviously an indicator of town ignorance, not any kind of scumclaim, what are you talking about. Come on.

Let's not lynch sorgster.

Um, no.

It's actually really, really likely that it

was

a scum slip from sorgster, because he specifically suggested the possibility that Revenus is a werewolf and he's convinced there's two scum teams (even though two nks doesn't mean shit n1 with no scum flips) for some unknown reason and has been basing all his scum lists off this assumption.

Put two and two together, it's something he'd think

as mafia

who doesn't know what the other scum team is (he thinks it's "werewolves").

What do you think of sorg's play independent of this?

You should do something useful.

I agree, we should lynch someone who's actually scummy.

So

why are you voting Revenus, then?

[ZeL1nK]

I don't understand the scumslip here.

Why would scum have any more reason to assume that two kills = two scumteams than town?

You're confusing something here...

The following is all from the perspective he's scum in a 2-scum team game...



Sorg-scum is mafia. His team is most likely him + 2 others (given what he's done with speculating on team scum teams so far). He

knows

there's another scum team because his team is too small for it to be a single scum team in a 22-player large theme game.

So he sees the two nks, sees Pine speculating about 2 scum teams, and decides, "hey, others are speculating on it, I will fit in and no one will suspect me!"

He's a bit of a [series of words that will get me modkilled] and thinks that since he's mafia, the other scum team must be werewolves.



Basically, everything he's done today (from his scum teams speculation to the werewolf thing) make sense from the perspective he's scum. The two nks has nothing to do with this.

That said, I could also see it making sense from the perspective he's really, really, really, really, reallllllllllllllly bad at this game... and it is sorgster... so I'm not going to suggest he

must

be scum because of it.

[ZeL1nK]

btw, if it wasn't already clear, the main reason I think sorg could be scum (apart from his horrible play so far) is the fact he keeps speculating on 2 scum teams of 3 players each time he gives his scum reads...

[ZeL1nK]

prod dodge. catch up soon

[ZeL1nK]

wait a minute

people jumped on Vel for saying something about town wagons? The same people that have been speculating about this being a multi-scum game (essentiallly meaning that even scum doesn't know who is and isn't town for sure)?

wow...

[ZeL1nK]

maxous's #2675 is the closest thing I've seen to a legitimate reason for voting Vel

[ZeL1nK]

nope. Looked over Vel's ISO. #2675 is a pretty gross misrepresentation of it. The whole part about the soda vote is wrong and completely out of context.

What Vel said about theam (passive-aggressive endorsement of town wagons), while not the phrasing I'd use, is in line with my opinion of theam's play. Yeah, he may have only voted for two of Vel's scum reads, but theam has

supported almost every wagon today

without actually voting for each of them, so what Vel said is true.

The only valid point is that Vel was voting someone he had as a null read, which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I see a potential explanation for it from the perpective that Vel is town - i.e. that theam's play itself is null outside of the fact that he's pretty much supported every lynch.

My own opinion of Vel is that some things in his ISO look town and while I wouldn't confidently call him town, nothing he's done is overtly scummy enough to warrant a lynch.

[ZeL1nK]

@bv, elaborate on why you think sorg's posts have "showed a townish lack of information". The fact that he's been giving scum lists in separate "teams" and has supported the idea of 2 scum teams without realising that others were doing it for 'lolflavour' reasons seems to suggest ii, not a lack of information.

[ZeL1nK]

@maxous

Either way, he's not scum.

[ZeL1nK]

pine is town

also not sure pops was scum with theam. need to go back over some things from yesterday.

also revenus is still a bad lynch.

[ZeL1nK]

nah i'm pretty sure pine is town. his claim doesn't change this.

although i am interested in why, if he shot theam n1 and thought he was bulletproof scum, he didn't push for theam's lynch yesterday over revenus. granted, he did crumb that his death implied theam is scum, but still... i don't understand why revenus was such a high priority when a theam wagon was viable.

[ZeL1nK]

but you

still

started today pushing a revenus wagon.

[ZeL1nK]

2pine,

also there are several more options than 'bp town' and 'hiraki docd' to explain why your kill failed. you could have been roleblocked by scum n1, for example.

[ZeL1nK]

anyway, first order of business is figuring out why the pops wagon stalled around p93 (I think it was me zde and thad then?).

also slowly getting through pops ISO now

[ZeL1nK]

Think about this rationally, Beck.

Do you think he's mafia of a different faction to pops? If so, he just put a giant target on his back for no reason.
Do you think he's mafia of the same faction as pops? If so, he just put a giant target on his back for the person who actually shot pops.

The only reasonable explanation for thinking he's scum is if you think he's SK. But in that case, he's on a leash right now as far as his options go. And his claimed kills don't make much sense from the perspective he's SK anyway - there were far better options for pine-SK to shoot.

Or are you suggesting his play makes him scum? Because I"d argue that's not the case, and other than a few pathetic cases he's pushed (Velz, rev, slandaar, etc) his play has looked pretty town so far.



anyway, I'm probably not going to get any analysis done until at least a few hours from now (busy atm) but i'm still slowly working my way through pops' ISO. Pretty sure theam and Rev are at least not scum of the same faction as pops. I made a note to go back and look at #510, #511 in context as well.

[ZeL1nK]

also just given people's reactions to this whole pine-vig thing, i'm thinking at least one of sorg/smargaret is scum.

[ZeL1nK]

Can you make the kill flavour "read sorgster in ISO"?

[ZeL1nK]

to be perfectly honest, as long as i understand your reasoning for the kills, i don't care who you kill, but you need to make that the kill flavour... it's an issue of trust. do it.

[ZeL1nK]

no, "Deadguy has died due to blood loss from clawing his eyes out and slashing his wrists after reading Sorgster's ISO"

[ZeL1nK]

lost faith in humanity etc

[ZeL1nK]

where can i find an up-to-date list of what's allowed / not allowed in normals?

too lazy to search myself

[ZeL1nK]

why did you roleblock pine last night? and who did you block n1?

[ZeL1nK]

who was it that was talking about pops-thad links D2? I recall multiple people talking about this, but it seems to have been forgotten.

what do people think of sorgster and funkybike?

[ZeL1nK]

@ta,

assume pine is town for a moment (make believe, if you want). who is scum and why?

[ZeL1nK]

@Pine,

why was screaminghawk town?

[ZeL1nK]

@thad,

i swear i remember people talking about thad-pops. i think smargaret was one of them. i'll go back and check some time soon.

@ta,

a scum roleblocker could have blocked you if they felt you were, say, scum of the opposing team and they were attempting to block your kill. there are also a couple other explanations that are plausible.

i'm asking you to consider the possibility that you're wrong because you've done very little today outside of declaring your unyielding desire to see pine lynched and I want to know who else you think is scum

why do you think pine claimed to be a vig who can make up his own kill flavour? do you think he's lying about targeting you n1?

@Pine

i'll look at it soon. only asking because dgb's play so far has been pretty pathetic and doesn't look town at all.



Oh and while i'm figuring things out

VOTE: funkybike

This makes a lot of sense after reading pops's ISO. Plus his recent posts have been screaming all kinds of scum.

[ZeL1nK]

wait no it was pops-zdenek that were supposedly linked in smargaret's mind.

heh, kind of ironic given the nks last night.

[ZeL1nK]

town:

revenus
beck
pine

not as likely town but still more town-looking than most players:

bvoigt
thad

no strong scum feelings and probably not lynch-worthy today:

iaaun
maxous
shattered viewpoint

I'm left with what?

sorgster, smargaret, DGB, vijay, funky, Sky, annnnnnnnnnd theamatuer

this is my lynch pool today.

I'm going to look over theam in ISO some time soon. Ironically, I'm far less confident he's scum today. :/

[ZeL1nK]

@mod

:

How do you deal with roleblocker v roleblocker action resolution? (specifically a blocks b and b blocks c)

Also want confirmation on Pine's nk flavour stuff.

[ZeL1nK]

Need to sort through pops' ISO now.

Done yet?

TheAm is very scummy,especially with that last post but revenus is much scummier imo.

Elaborate. Why is (was) Rev so much scummier than theam?

Hmm maybe not so much Vijay.Funky looks like a good shout through Pops ISO imo.Plus Funky's individual play has been real scummy anyway.

I somehow missed this earlier when I skimmed over today's posts. maxous can be town for now too, not that it matters because he wasn't in my lynch pool either way.

---

#2805 is such a bad, bad post.



also, temp vote count for my own reference

pine (5) - theam, beck, dgb, smargaret, sorg
funky (2) - maxous, captain awesome
rev (1) -

pine

,

sorg

, bv
theam (4) - rev,

smargaret

, iiaun, pine, thad

16 alive = 9 to lynch

[ZeL1nK]

that pine wagon is poison

[ZeL1nK]

DGB hasn't claimed anything that she could be held accountable for and there isn't necessarily a 'one must be lying' dichotomy between pine and ta.

[ZeL1nK]

chill on the lynching at least until all options have been considered.

after the mod gives answers to the questions that have been asked, we can talk about whether one of them must be lying and who is more likely scum and etc etc.

[ZeL1nK]

i'm more interested in the mod answering my question on action resolution (which the mod should answer) than the question on kill flavour

[ZeL1nK]

@Pine,

what would the flavour be if you targeted a mafia kill?

[ZeL1nK]

Your question is easy


If player A blocks B, and b blocks C than B's block fails because he was blocked by A.

OK and if this is true, there are a couple potential explanations for why this isn't necesarily a "one of pine and theam is lying and therefore scum" dichotomy.

I want the mod to verify this.

Because if there are possible situations in which neither player is lying then this whole "let's lynch pine of theam" thing is lazy play (and there's likely scum somewhere in the mix trying to get this to happen).

Here's a marvellous idea I heard in another game; it's this concept called 'scum hunting', which almost no one has attempted today. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but I hear it requires more than simply going, "derp derp let's lynch dat guy!" Crazy, isn't it?

Has anyone other than maxous and I read pops in ISO? Does anyone have an opinion on likely partners for pops? Who's scum outside of {Pine, theam}?

[ZeL1nK]

why do you think he claimed roleblocker? to unnecessarily get himself into a 1-on-1 with pine?

nope.

he's most likely a roleblocker (or at least knows that a roleblocking ability was used on pine).

the question is: if that's the case, how could pine have killed pops?

and the followup question is: is at least one of them scum?

[ZeL1nK]

Pine didn't kill pops obviously.

OK, why do you think he claimed it?

The way I look at it is one of the 2 have to be scum, unless something prevented theam's RB on pine.

right... In other words, there are situations in which both of them aren't scum, and... you don't care.

You defending pine, is quite odd IMO but we can deal with that when we know what pine is.

If you think my 'defense' of pine is weird, then you should think it's weird regardless of his flip.


--

If pine is town though, I'd suppose that his list would be true, and the scum would be viijay, sorg, and DGB.

???

???

???

--

@maxous,

without being even slightly ambiguous, walk me through each of your thoughts from #2920 and how they make sense because it's honesty baffling me trying to figure out what you were implying there.

to be clear, are you suggesting he's SK or mafia or not-sure-but-think-he's-some-sort-of-scum?

- are you disputing that he shot pops, or saying that he wouldn't shoot pops as town or what?
- are you suggesting that theam (not revenus) was a counter-wagon to Pine (who never really had a major wagon)? do you think he's lying about shooting theam?
- i don't understand why you're asking for another claim. do you actually think that if someone roleblocked pine n1 they should/would claim it? if they're town, why would they out themselves to save him? if they're scum, ditto. would it even change your mind?
- what exactly is your issue with his responses to dgb? do you think he'd have approached this differently as town?

[ZeL1nK]

no.

dgb says 'someone is mod-confirmed scum'

this causes pine to claim vig

why?

if he's scum who is worried about a cop investigation, it makes no sense, so we can deduce that he didn't claim because he was worried about a cop investigation.
if he's scum who is worried about a track/watch result, then it makes sense, but that means he must have performed the kill on pops, otherwise a track/watch result would prove this wrong.

you say you don't think pine performed the kill on pops. why did he claim vig?

[ZeL1nK]

pine-vig would actually imply there

are

two scum teams (n1 kills), or at least it would imply the existence of two other killing abilities.

[ZeL1nK]

I also think that theamatuer is telling the truth about the roleblock. He has NO REASON to come up with stuff like that as scum.

sentence 1 is true.

sentence 2 is false.

if it's going to come down to a choice between theam and pine today, theam is a better choice.

VOTE: theamatuer

[ZeL1nK]

If he beleived he was hot on the tail of rev scum would'nt he think there would be a good chance that he would die particulary when Hiraki flipped doctor?

logically, this wouldn't be a huge problem because pine dying would probably have somewhat implicated revenus and there was a lot of support for revenus's lynch without pine being alive.

on the other hand, there wasn't an amazing amount of support for a pops lynch. it was a good vig shot.

the only problem pine would have if he'd died is that nobody would have known about his n1 shot failing, but he did crumb this. sort of.

[ZeL1nK]

dgb is lying

if pine is lynched, she will retract her claim and say "lol i was gambiting"

it's pathetic.

the only reason i'd lynch pine is if i have a guarantee that a pine town-flip = dead dgb, no excuses, no second-guessing.

[ZeL1nK]

I want dgb to specifically say "lynch me if pine flips town because I am not gambiting" or something to that effect.

no worming her way out of it

[ZeL1nK]

yeah, no.

i want dgb to clarify it or i don't give a fuck whether you think she's town.

[ZeL1nK]

smargaret looks like newbscum who is trying way too hard to get a mislynch on pine and is now hoping to plant seeds of suspicion on my 'obvtown' status.

[ZeL1nK]

unvote

no lynch until dgb posts

[ZeL1nK]

Also have something to say re:sv but no time now

[ZeL1nK]

Quick phone post: why has ta not pointed out the obvious re:sv?

[ZeL1nK]

No I meant you blocked him n1 and seem to have forgotten this...

I have a theory about this that requires the existence of a Jk but it seems you forgot your own night actions

[ZeL1nK]

i am pretty sure sorgster's teammates have given him one simple instruction; 'try to get people mod-killed for abusing your intelligence.'

there is no other reasonable explanation.

but i am strong.

i will not fall for the trap.

no, you won't find me calling sorgster the biggest fucking idiot waste of oxygen dumb fuck moron i've ever seen because he wants to lynch an uncc'd cop for no good reason.

no, you won't find me saying anything like that.

i would never say something like that.

[ZeL1nK]

i still think pine is either a vig or at worst SK.

the obvious give-away that ta is lying is that he said he doesn't know why his roleblock on pine failed.

ergo his faction was not responsible for the pops kill ergo they know pine actually killed pops and can't figure out how it happened.

[ZeL1nK]

If he were town, he'd say I'm scum and campaign for my lynch, which would be the right and righteous move.

But noooooooooooooooooo, he keeps calling me town, What The Coconut???

^ bad logic

he knew you were lying. he figured you were town gambitting, not scum lying.

dear god.

When a gambit is successful in outing scum, you vote the scum, not the gambiter. And Theam, are you even reading this game? DGB admitted it was a gambit and there was no such one-shot cop role.

^ still scum

Also, I'm under the impression that if the cop investigates someone before he/she is roleblocked, then the roleblocker's ability doesn't come through. Is this right?
If yes,
Theam when did you send in your roleblocks TheAm?

time-based action resolution is only for conflicts (like roleblocker v roleblocker), at least according to the mod.

There is no guarantee that there is a cop in this game.

true, but you have no good reason to want him lynched and scum claiming cop unprompted d3 is insanely stupid, especially to cc a gambiter, so he is almost certainly a cop.

So after the day's over, I highly doubt Pine will continue to act like a vig because of this, and will target the most town person here or the cop. And since he is bulletproof, you have no way of stopping it.

the funny thing is he has to include flavour with every kill he performs now so they can be traced to him and if the only way he can be killed is via lynching, he has to at least shoot players he can justify as having a good chance of flipping scum.

but i don't see the point of discussing this any further today.

If TheAm claimiing scum is a modkillable offense, we could still lynch Pine. That would be awesome.

cute, but the rule is claiming to be scum

with someone else

.

[ZeL1nK]

he didn't break any rules that would cause a mod kill.

[ZeL1nK]

sv investigate one of smargaret, funky, sky. preference on the first two.

[ZeL1nK]

actuallly, investigate someone outside that group. that's a good group for vig shots.

[ZeL1nK]

The redacted replaced it if you iso them.

are you still trying to get me modkilled for abusing your intelligence?

Assuming no one would kill him

i'm an inventor. i made him bulletproof last night. don't bother trying to shoot him.

I probably should have fakeclaimed N1 on funky or something.

that would have been smart. he's probably scum with pops.

[ZeL1nK]

you're right, it is 1-shot. don't shoot him tonight.

[ZeL1nK]

i have no reason to lie. if scum are stupid enough to shoot him, so be it.

[ZeL1nK]

role cop said you were BP and had a kill ability.

a diagnosis would give a disease, not the symptoms.

[ZeL1nK]

can anyone reference a multi-scum game that had a scum rolecop in it?

[ZeL1nK]

presumably a serial killer would be investigation immune

[ZeL1nK]

SK aren't often investigation-immune. It's rare. Mostly, they're BP.

why does it make sense that the mod would tell a rolecop 'the person you investigated is a bulletproof killer but i'll leave it up to your imagination as to whether this makes him a serial killer or not and what you should do with this information!!!" over just outright saying "yo dude, he's a serial killer"

that's presuming there even is a rolecop, which i don't think makes much sense in a multi-scum game, which is why i'd like someone to link me a multi-scum game with a rolecop in it.

ta was obviously lying about the pops kill, i don't think anything he says about pine has any truth value.

[ZeL1nK]

Pine (6): theamatuer, Beck, DrippingGoofball, smargaret, sorgster, Maxous

^ just a reminder... that wagon was poison

this is one of those cases where thad's 3-5 analysis is likely to net scum.

and i don't care how many people say dgb is 'obvtown' - her play so far is atrocious and this 'lolgambit' doesn't make her town.

that's not to say there weren't scum also voting theam or not voting either, but that pine wagon was abominable and every townie on it should feel ashamed.

[ZeL1nK]

but then i'd also say the same about the velz lynch and the slandaar-almost-lynch

horrible play

[ZeL1nK]

you hear that, hiraki? If I find out you didn't protect SV tonight, you're dead tomorrow.

[ZeL1nK]

Oh make fun of me, I only replaced in a 104 page game!

*shakes fist in anger*

damn that evil mod, hiding flips somewhere near page 50 or 60. they should be on the front page!