The Aftermath - Victors Announced

[Zdenek]

confirming

[Zdenek]

Vote Chunky Kev

On account of the alphabet and the red letters in his role pm.

Funny how that worked out.

[Zdenek]

Kahn and Elvis are scum.

Pine ia annoying me so he's probably town.

I'm indifferent to Kuribo, but also feel like shamelessly bandwagonning at the moment, so

Vote Silent Assassinp/b]

[Zdenek]

Vote Silent Assassin

[Zdenek]

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.

THIS IS THE DUMBEST FUCKING THING I'VE EVER READ THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE SPARKLY VAMPIRES

No question.

Sleeplesstown would have found Zdenek's post(s) before his scummy but he didn't so he's scum.
k go.

Anything I can do to help.

[Zdenek]

When I last read a game with Grim in it, I thought was obv scum off the bad (I was replacing in was reading before I got my role pm), and I'm not seeing that here.

Also, I want a page number answer to this:

Really? That seems like a sort of BS question just to provoke someone who's already being obnoxious.

You really need to stop posting like this. It's unproductive and the endless postcount-inflation is making the act of catching up seem daunting to those who aren't current, Grimmjow being a good example of someone who goes "Oh shit, eight pages". This deprives us of their input and adds nothing to the game.

Hmm, maybe EK was right. First defending Kuribo and now trying to help him out?. Why Pine?

I'm pretty sure Kev is town after his long post, and that unvote to no vote tell doesn't work on new players.

So Shattered is mostly faking content.

[Zdenek]

Chunky, it looks like we can get used to that with this group.

Seriously? You've been here over a year, you should know these things already.

In other words, why didn't you vote Fate for saying that's he's bussing someone?

I've found it to be the opposite. People who are annoying and sarcastic are abrasive and usually paid attention to more than people who are generally polite. So I think you are wrong.

Second, I don't see how I said that Fate is bussing someone.

[Zdenek]

In other words, why didn't you vote Fate for saying that's he's bussing someone?

Wait, were you actually asking me why I didn't vote Fate because Fate said that he's bussing someone? Because that's really fucking stupid.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Elvis_Knits

[Zdenek]

Elvis Knits:
- attacks both Lowell and Lowell's attacker in the same sentence
- likes the Kuribo wagon, acknowledges that SA is on it and is okay with that, but still suggests that SA is scummy
- softly attacks pine for defending Kuribo
- I find her opinions regarding ChunkKev questionable considering the length of time she's been on the site.
- I think that question she asked Kuribo about on what page he starts getting reads was disingenuous.
- she was on the Kuribo wagon, was pushing the SA wagon and now is on the ChunkyKev wagon which looks about as opportunistic as one can get.

[Zdenek]

Elvis Knits doesn't comment on Fate directing the vig in 531, but says that Pine is scum when he does it, but she's scum, so it's to be expected.

I'll read the walls later.

I'm not interested in voting DGB

I could get behind an SV lynch.

[Zdenek]

I don't have time to read now.

V/LA until Tuesday.

[Zdenek]

Fixating on someone? Are you having a laugh? It's even funnier as Khan has accused me of the exact opposite (I believe he said unfocused scumhunting).

That's because he's scum.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: scum skim. IGMEOY.

On elvis. How about vote?

I think that the people who were happy with the fake day kill on Kev, but aren't voting him are scummy because of the cognitive dissonance involved. When it comes to Kuribo, I'm not shocked at all because he strikes me as the sort of person who'd laugh at town reads getting day killed. So I am more concerned about xReckx on this front.

This is a good point, though kuribo doesn't take the point far enough. The original quote (now that I view it in isolation) screams "desperate last flailings of scum." An actual daykill would indeed have confirmed Hindu as Town, which every Townie here was likely thinking already. To say the above, I'm confident that chunkykev was trying everything in his playbook to take Hindu down with him. Town in that situation would instead have recognized what we all did, that scum daykiller is uber overpowered and therefore a true daykill confirms Hindu. At which point, he would have either started cussing Hindu out for being derpTown and/or started preparing his final will and testament in the thread, before mod shut him up.

I can support a chunkykev lynch based on this. I think it's the worst scumslip in the thread, and am disappointed in myself for missing it at first.

Looks more like a case based on mediocre play than the worst scum slip in the thread.

Pfft. You're still in the process of going down hard, so while that added detail is somewhat pertinent, it is also largely irrelevant.

Pine is using big words to trump up a case.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh that's rich.

That's fucking rich.

Deflecting scum

I can't see him making such preposterous constructs as town. It's all very forced. Like most scum agendas.

On Fate. Yes.

If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time.

Watch as KK holds everyone to this standard when they vote.

Elvis and KK are still the scummiest to me.
Grimmjow is doing nothing and I'm willing to vote for him because ot it, but I'd prefer to vote elsewhere now.
I still think that SV is bad. Now for what seems like a blatant lie in 849.
So, there's a meta case on Spyrex being pushed by people who are kind of scummy to me at the moment, Fate and xReckx, so I'll be ignoring that wagon.
Hinduragi's vote on Grimmjow makes little sense considering his case on Kev.

Since there's no support for an E K lynch. Moving on

Vote Kublai Kahn

[Zdenek]

Elvis and KK are still the scummiest to me.

Wait, WTF? Who are you? When did you join this game? Goddamn, you're so quiet you could sneak up on a meth addict.

So let get this straight. You think I'm scummy for something I said previous to post #109 and you've held your tongue for 35 pages before finally voting on it?

My vote was elsewhere, but this is not the first time I've commented on you.

If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time.

Watch as KK holds everyone to this standard when they vote.

Nice job taking my words out of context and twisting their meaning.

Here's the post for proper context. Summary:Pine went "Scumslip! Vote!". It was a shitty vote because it wasn't anything close to a scumslip.

Good job completely misrepping yourself.

I've look a handful of KK's past games and as town he's rational and fairly careful, and doesn't seem to make the same sort of crazy statements that he's making here.

I wish there was a wagon that I wanted to join, but I'm pretty sure my vote is on scum.

[Zdenek]

My vote was elsewhere, but this is not the first time I've commented on you.

Yes, yeah. I got that. I already linked to post 109 which is the first (and only) time you mention that you think I'm scum before your recent vote.

Good job completely misrepping yourself.

I've look a handful of KK's past games and as town he's rational and fairly careful, and doesn't seem to make the same sort of crazy statements that he's making here.

Would you fucking spit out what the hell you're talking about? What crazy statements?

How am I misrepping myself by pointing out that you took my comments out of context and tried to make them look scummy?

Not scummy, but crazy. Couple that with the fact that you are clearly a rational and thoughtful player, you get scummy because there is no chance that you really believe the things you are saying.

For instance:

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.
...
If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time.

There's also the use of the "unfocused scum-hunting" scum tell on CK.

[Zdenek]

KK:

why haven't you asked anyone who has called someone else scum to explain how that person has been manipulating town the whole time?

how many times has the unfocused scum hunting scum tell worked for you in the past?

[Zdenek]

Again, nice spin. Are you going to provide an example of me doing this as scum? Because meta seems to be the basis of your case.

I brought that up with Pine because Pine was engaging in "Gotcha!" scum-hunting. Which is bullshit scum-hunting. Especially when it's way past the RVS stage.

I'll ask for a detailed explanation on someone's voting reasons when I either have no clue or if I'm checking if they have townie logic. Now, I've asked you twice to explain why you think I'm scum, but you've dodged twice. You want to make it a trifecta?

You're scum because you are saying disingenuous things that I don't think you believe.

I don't need to go through and find examples of you doing that in other games to know that you are doing it here. It's scummy independently of your meta.

So "Gotcha" scum hunting is only acceptable in the RVS? You don't believe in scum slips?

By itself, none. In conjunction with other tells, I don't know... 17? 18? Do you care about the answer, or are you just deflecting?

Of course I care. Searching through your past posts, you haven't used the word unfocused before now.

Pine is scummy now. Going from I'm going to empower spyrex to let's lynch a claimed vig is nonsense. Elvis Knits points this out.

So by sacrificing Pine we get two lynches in a row? And he's bullet proof before then. I'm pretty sure we have to test this claim fairly soon, but there are ways we can do it that will really benefit town, so I don't think he should do it today, unless something comes up.

I don't object to Ellibereth being organized.

I'm a little torn on Pine. On one hand, scum-Pine wouldn't say something as stupid as this:

I think that's a big scumslip there. He's calling the cult leader "Great Leader" instead of "our Misled Leader". By flavor, he's still in the cult. BOOM, headshot.

Wait, how is that post by Pine not gotcha scum hunting? 'Cause it sure looks like it,

So I'm going to STRONGLY ENCOURAGE that Pine sacrifices himself today.

Why no vote?

Vote Kublai Khan

[Zdenek]

Ok, so you've decided to move the goalposts. First meta matters, now meta is irrelevant.

WTF is your deal? Are you an alt of someone I've played with and are coyishly trying to hide that fact?

Meta is relevant in the sense that these things coming from other people would be more forgivable. I've been around the site long enough to have read some of your posts, in MD for instance, and my impression is that you're a fairly rational person. The ideas that you're expressing in those posts doesn't agree with that impression.

I'm not an alt and I don't think we've played together before.

Also, you still haven't ansewered about why you thought me scum prior to post 109. There's no third party, so you're not a lyncher. Why won't you answer my questions?

That would be the "psychological ploy" post you made. I'm sure I've mentioned that. It's pretty easy to accuse people of not answering your questions when you don't read their posts.

Because it's in the negative. "wouldn't" is a contraction of "would not". As in, "Scum-Pine would not say something as stupid as this" which implies that I do not believe it's a scum slip. Do I have to break everything down into monosyllabic words for you?

Hi mudslinging scum.

My point was this: earlier you accuse Pine of being scum for engaging in "gotcha" scum hunting. Now, you write off a second instance of "gotcha" scum hunting, with scum pine would be dumb enough to say something like that.

I'm all for Rhinox taking Ellibereth's place, but I won't vote him now because I don't feel like doing a vote count myself.

[Zdenek]

No. You're (still) reading it wrong. I'm talking about the people pointing out that Pine said "Our Misled Leader" instead of "Our (positive attribute) Leader". That's not the sort of comment that scum-Pine would make.

Yes, but what you've done is decide to ignore an obvious instance of "gotcha" scum hunting, a scum tell from before apparently, and now treat it as a dumb thing scum wouldn't say.

And the goalposts aren't moving. I don't have to cite everyplace I've read your posts each time I comment on you.

And I understand your explanation of the psychological ploy comment, I just think that it's bull shit.

Anyway, I'm now bored with this KK business, he's scum, but I'm tired of wasting my time arguing with him and voting him is accomplishing nothing.

We've got some wagons to look at.

Sleepless Assassin (11): elvis_knits, Grimmjow, My Milked Eek Hoppster, Kublai Khan, Kuribo, Lowell, Pine, Rhinox, Shattered Viewpoint, springlullaby, Sociopath

Rhinox (8): Elvis_knits, Fate, kuribo, Pine, Shattered Viewpoint, SpyreX, springlullaby, xRECKONERx

People on both:

Elvis_knits, kuribo, Pine, Shattered Viewpoint, springlullaby,

No surprises that Kuribo's on both.
We're not lynching Pine.

That leaves E_K, SV and lullaby.

Hoppster wants votes on Lullaby, so I'm going there.

Unvote
Vote SpringtimeLullaby

[Zdenek]

Pine, have you played with DGB before?

[Zdenek]

Yes.

Can you direct me to the game?

[Zdenek]

There seems to be a pretty stong disconnect between Pine's earlier comments about DGB, that he's never been able to read her before this game and his reaction to DGB fake mason claim. His example of a place where they've played before contains on 17 posts by Pine (I can't tell easily why that's the case, since the mod seems to have edited his name out of his posts, but I'm not sure that matters), but he also says that he's read a number of games that she's been in.

All of this points to him lying about his experience with her, trying to justify his earlier claims by exaggerating the amount that he's seen her play, but failing to fake an appropriate reaction to her fake claim.

[Zdenek]

Pine, I looked at the player list, I didn't see your name, so I assumed that you'd replaced in and the mod didn't update the list, so I iso'd you and saw 17 posts. I really didn't care to look into it any further.

The disconnect is between you saying that you have a hard time reading DGB indicates that you've played with her a lot and your reaction to the mason claim, which indicates that you haven't.

The problem I had with your reaction, is that someone who has played with DGB a lot or read a lot of her games probably wouldn't have immediately thought that she's scum for fake claiming masons.

All this said, I'm now pretty sure that Pine is town.

[Zdenek]

As far as the Rhinox switching with Elli thing goes: the flavor for the kill last night suggests that it's not necessarily a scum kill, so I'm not writing off the possibility that Spyrex is scum and if Elli flips scum that would go a long way to making me think that Spyrex is town. I don't think that there is a an obviously better chance of Rhinox flipping scum than Elli.

[Zdenek]

(One reason this analysis is so fail is that you have to assume rhinox is town for it to make sense).

I was partly, but scum can bus, and anyway, we'll see what comes of that situation.

Also, I have two reasons I don't like this SL wagon. 1)Started when Rhinox was L-2 with a "rhinox is scum but let's wagon SL" and 2)I like most of her votes even if content is low.

1) Why do you think Hoppster is scum?
2) It's as though you think scum don't sheep.

[Zdenek]

I SPY A FUN FACT IN THIS POST
I WONDER WHAT IT COULD BE
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=19245

That we have a hospital after all??

Or that there are no cults?

[Zdenek]

This thread is full of fail.

Please elaborate.

[Zdenek]

And Pine? Pine is supposed to be dead. WTF is Pine still doing alive?

Pine rescinded his offer to sacrifice himself.

[Zdenek]

The people not on the SL wagon:

Rhinox (2): Elvis_knits, SpyreX

Ellibereth (1): DrippingGoofball
Fate (1): Hinduragi
Pine (1): chunkykev
Shattered Viewpoint (1): springlullaby

Not Voting: Lowell, Ellibereth

Hindu, SL and Elli are dead. Spyrex is prob. town. Scum who can scum a double voter is unlikely. Leaving:

E_K
DGB
Chunky
Lowell

That list is ripe with scum.

I'm starting here today:

Vote Elvis_Knits

[Zdenek]

Oops Elli's not dead.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Hoppster

[Zdenek]

Responding to a prod. I'll be back tomorrow.

[Zdenek]

I'm fine with Fate's death. I think Town-Fate would have been more skeptical about a cop who can investigate and send his results out each night.

I'm pretty sure ChunkKev is town because of how he was thinking about Fate's claim on Hoppster.

Pine looks increasingly scummy - between yestersday's lining up lynches and is you always follow the cop banter.

Vote Seraphim

[Zdenek]

Well, I've seen DGB do this as town, but I've also heard that she pulls this as scum, so unless someone has more insight into it, I'm going to take what's been going on these last few pages as null for her.

Serphim's ISO is pathetic, which is why I am voting him.

I still think that KK is scum, but pushing that idea's been a waste of time so far.

[Zdenek]

Finally,

Vote Elvis_Knits

[Zdenek]

Khan, why do think E_K is town?

E_K continues to be scum and her case on xReckx is awful.

I'd be happiest lynching, EK, KK or Seraphim.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Seraphim

[Zdenek]

So we've got a scum team of 4 or 5, my money's on 4, left. I don't want to lynch any of the following today, but of them the person I am most suspicious of is Fate - the messenger bit is an easy gambit to pull of, and I still think that Fate should have figured out that it's bs to have a cop who can send out results as soon as he gets them.

SpyreX - poisoner and gives out double votes
elvis_knits - claimed Mason
Kublai Khan - claimed Mason
Pine - will die tonight
DrippingGoofball - claimed Tracker
Fate - received messages from NS

Leaving:

Katsuki (Formerly Grimmjow) - reviewed his and Grimm's ISO's. There's nothing there that I would say is a strong alignment tell. Katsuki said that he'd like it if SL or SV sacrificed himself for Elli, but never mentioned SV again, so that's something to keep in mind. At that time, SL was voting SV and there was a wagon on SL. I'd say there's a potential link to SV here, but it's not strong.

Lowell - In 571 Lowell FoSed Shattered because of his deny-meany miney moe post. He's thrown FoSs around, but has voted very conservatively.

Seraphim (Formerly malthusis) - Isn't trying and is probably scum.

xRECKONERx - is probably scum. There was the one of the SDC is scum business and that waste of time probability post. He spent a long time attacking Kuribo, but voted SA without saying anything, putting him to L-2.

LOL HINDU BE STRETCHIN' BRO

Yeah this Hindu lynch is lookin' good and primed for D2 after we lynch SA.

OMG RECK IS SETTING UP LYNCHES HE'S SCUMZ

This last comment is designed to head off conversation and deflect attention from what he is doing.

There's the really consistent buddying of Katsuki/Grimmjow.

I'm a bit tired of reading now, but I'll get back to this.

chunkykev
_____________________________

Anyhow, at the moment, I think we've got scum in Seraphim and Reck. I remember thinking that ChunkyKev was town, put that was at partly because of my scum reads on people voting for him who are now very likely town. Reck's buddying of Grimmjow/Katsuki means that slot can be town for now. So the last scum are probably in Lowell, ChunkyKev and Fate.

[Zdenek]

ChunkyKev, do you think that Seraphim is actually better than Lowell, even if it's not by much? If so, why?

[Zdenek]

In a game that was explicitly advertized as not being power heavy, I don't think that it make too much sense to hold off on lynching people on the basis that they didn't go anywhere at night in order to search for potential scum power roles.

[Zdenek]

xRECK is town. He's got to be. His play is horrendous if he's town. So, he's not.

Which of these "town"s was meant to be scum?

DGB is being ridiculous:

I generally don't like to harvest info from the dead scum iso's, it tends to be too WIFOM-y.

And Katsuki (who is confirmed scum in my mind): "I'd be willing to vote any one of chunky, lowell, Pine. No read on zdenik."

This is cognitive dissonance, and it's for the purpose of trying to get me lynched. If she wasn't nearly confirmed as town because of the SV incident, I'd be voting her for it.

So Seraphim claims Jester with a town win-con. I have no idea how that works, but I'd be surprised if he was lying. . . . ok so there are two ways we can skip the night phase.

[Zdenek]

Do you think that there is c.d. in DGB's post?

[Zdenek]

Then you're either scum or an idiot because there is no way that she changed her mind about the usefulness of scum ISO's over one post.

[Zdenek]

No, Pine. I am talking about what DGB was thinking.

[Zdenek]

Actually, Seraphim's claim is probably a lie. It makes little sense combined with

Given what I know about the mechanics, someone sending messages totally makes sense.

[Zdenek]

Sure. Pick who goes first.

[Zdenek]

I'm a VT. My flavour is that I'm an artist for whom Our Great Leader had a purpose.

ChunkyKev should go next.

[Zdenek]

Lowell and Reck still have to claim.

CK who goes next?

[Zdenek]

No.

After his claim and that post about expecting a messenger, Seraphim gets lynched today.

Fate is scum for believing the messages he was receiving and pushing a lynch based on them.

Those two are definitely scum.

[Zdenek]

Yes Fate is scum because he's not an idiot. Everything else you said is stupid because of scum orchestrating that lie amongst themselves.

I'm not scared, but if you're town, you're an idiot who's going to lose the game for us.

The fact that you are choosing Lowell as a lynch today over Seraphim is crazy or scummy.

[Zdenek]

So the same Fate that didn't know why the night phase was short isn't an idiot? OK then, Zdenek. Can you explain to me why scum's messenger would send their message to a fellow scum? And why would Fate claim such when he had no way to know the messenger would be modkilled to clear him?

To set up exactly this situation where he gets "cleared" in case SV dies. SV getting lynched or vigged before Fate has a good chance of happening, it didn't have to be through a mod-kill.

[Zdenek]

The Fate lynch can probably wait for today now that Eli is going bye bye (annoying enough for you, Eli?).

Explain this.

Fate, if you're town, that's the biggest derp imaginable - LOL cop who can investigate and send secret messages on the same night. How could you have possibly believed it?

[Zdenek]

Fate, why were you so certain the messages came from town and were not fake? You must have considered that surely?

So you totally disregarded the possibility they could be fake information given to you by scum, even though they would lead to a lynch of Hoppster then probably you?

Why not Hoppster? Maybe there was no reason behind it. Maybe it was a random townie. Maybe he said something that was too close for comfort about one or more of the scum.

But I find it very hard to believe that you went with the messages with no evidence at all that they were town, and didn't share this information with us even though you must have known the heat you would come immediately under if Hoppster flipped town.

My vote would be on you if you were not up for dying anyway.

So the same Fate that didn't know why the night phase was short isn't an idiot? OK then, Zdenek. Can you explain to me why scum's messenger would send their message to a fellow scum? And why would Fate claim such when he had no way to know the messenger would be modkilled to clear him?

What a lot of crap!

Fate was going to be top lynch candidate the day after his guilty claim was shown to be wrong. He had no way of knowing that he would avoid the lynch that day and it certainly wasn't even slightly likely that SV would be dead before him. So you are claiming that SV wasted his ability by sending messages to his own scumbuddy for Fate to out a messenger role in his defence and then hope he would avoid the lynch until SV died.

Give it up, Z. You are scum. Fate is not.

Scum Kev forgot what he thought of Fate's claim.

Kev and Seraphim are almost sure scum at this point.

[Zdenek]

I don't believe Seraphim, but I'd also be fine with lynching ChunkKev because I think they are both scum.

[Zdenek]

It's not.
My top picks are still Chunky and Fate.