Mini 362 - Open Role Bastard Mafia (Game Over)

[Twomz]

Is it nude Twister?

vote: Chamber

Hey, what's up?

[Twomz]

Unvote, vote: Zind

LAL, Chamber's never mean!

[Twomz]

Hey Fritz. What's been going on, you haven't been posting as much as normal in most the games we're both in?

[Twomz]

Fritz posted right before my last post. He probably just thought we were starting w/ night or something.

Speaking of which... we're starting w/ day, w/ and even number of players. I almost hate to bring it up this early... but No Lynch might be an acceptable option for the first day of this game. Of course since we have a known vig and the mafia kill... it might be 10 instead of 11 tomorrow, so lynching a random player may be the best choice (remember, ability claims won't help the town determine who is scum and who isn't, only investigations (which in this game, probably can't be trusted) and behaviour can determine scum.)

So, if the vig isn't scum, then we can expect probably just 1 kill tonight... but the vig might be scum, and the vig might fire blindly (or on a hunch). Does anyone else have an opinion on the way to start off day 1?

[Twomz]

Random bandwagoning will be far less effective because everyone can claim freely w/o worry of being condemned on their claim. Bandwagonning on weak points could turn up some info... but like most games, the bandwagon will either fall about after the claim, or push to a lynch, where the actual claim won't matter anyway. We have to rethink the way we play in this game, because the normal system of claim/role guilties and counterclaims isn't going to be helpful in this game.

[Twomz]

I will usually bring up Mass claiming early in the game too, mainly as a discussion point. But, in this game it's pretty useless to massclaim, and i suggest that until we get to the point where it's a couple of mafia and a really bad vig left, we don't massclaim.

Also, I didn't say "hey i think we should no lynch" I said "hey it might be a good idea if we discuss the pros and cons of a no lynch, here's my opinion". If I get lynched for that, then there's definately scum pushing that wagon .

Could we get more posting in general? Like, from people that have just posted once? That'd be great.

[Twomz]

Although there's nothing in the rules that says that the Mod can only do antitown bastardizations, I doubt he would nerf the scums good luck that much by taking away their NK, just cause they have a vig.

I too think "bastardization" will be a lot like a role reversal. Cops sanity changes, doc is placebo/vig, vig rbs instead of kills, dogs sleep w/ cats, etc. Also, i'm not totally clear about whether one person is "bastardized" each night, or if there's a chance for each person that they'll be bastardized. (heck, maybe there's a player that gets to pick, i need to read the roles at the beginning closer).

[Twomz]

The scum knows what roles are out there, but they don't know who has what role.

[Twomz]

LOL, Counterclaiming vanilla townies .

[Twomz]

FOS ZIND

I'm sure you've played w/ Fritz before and know that that's the way he plays. But, i'm not voting you because it is odd that Fritz isn't talking as much as normal (but he's doing it in all his games so i'm assuming he's busy or something).

[Twomz]

This is going to be one of those really confusing day 1s where everyone points fingers and we take forever to get anthing important done isn't it?

[Twomz]

Started a bandwagon?

Let's review Fritz's post... "Vote: Zindaras" Wow... that really starts up bandwagons right there... . I think you're blowing things out of proportion.

[Twomz]

unvote, vote: zindaras

d ^.^ b <(* *<) (>* *)> (^* *^) (V* *V) d(* *d)

Btw, i'm going to an orientation camp for college tomorrow, so i'll see y'all Monday/Tuesday.

[Twomz]

Hey, i'm back. Read what I missed. I can't tell if nai/mayham are scumbuddies or if Help is trying to get the town to mislynch them. I suppose either more evidence will come up, or one or more of them will be Nked soon so we'll be able to pick apart the truth then. I'm satisfied w/ my vote for now, although i'm all alone... i'm tempted to follow Fritz... but i'm usually more inclined to follow him when he hops around more frequently. *shrug*

[Twomz]

I've found that following Fritz's vote is usually a good day 1 play, regardless of whether he's town or scum. If you still need more clarification I can give it.

[Twomz]

Well, as town Fritz has a good gut feeling. As scum, he'll usually try to throw his scumbuddies under the bus in order to make himself look better. So, most of the time following Fritz is a good idea. (also, it's a good way to get conversation going)

[Twomz]

?

unvote, vote: theman

How the heck is blindly following bandwagons an endgame tactic?

There's also the fact that following Fritz usually gets some people to argue why so many people are following Fritz (and other such things, like what's going on right now). And any conversation is good in mafia ^.^b

[Twomz]

Erm... wouldn't you be voting for chamber, not me? I'm not sure if I understand your post. Who is creating false suspicion?

[Twomz]

Hey Fritz, can i get some help on theman wagon? I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[Twomz]

(actually, it's more of a ruse to get Fritz to post more, but thx for the thought)

[Twomz]

Wait, does prolific mean posts the most, or most recognizable?

[Twomz]

I'm unsure of my internet connection tomorrow (or anytime after that), but it should be ok at the college...

[Twomz]

I'm back from checking into college . Woohoo, great internet speed. Even better than broadband at home... i just hope they haven't blocked WoW or any other games .

It looks like most of the conversation right now is people getting angry that not that many people (namely Help) are posting... so, if y'all decide to move past that, or start posting more, i'll be over there (> **)>H (<- that's me pointing where i'll be holding a half full smoothy)

[Twomz]

bethelmark ALWAYS lurks (and subsequently, is always scum... hmm), chamber doesn't really post that much, but he'd post if he was called a lurker or prodded (unless he's unable too). Not sure about the others.

[Twomz]

Twomz- What would happen if Fritz voted for you? Would you follow his vote if it meant putting down the hammer onsomeone?

To the first, i'd either jokingly vote for myself, or vote someone else. To the second... Fritz wouldn't put someone one away from lynch, he'd wait for someone to vote, then drop the hammer... you obviously haven't played w/ fritz enough. (if he requested that i put someone one away from lynch so he could hammer them.... then it depends)

[Twomz]

Twomz- I’m surprised at how far you’d follow Fritzler. I’ve never played with him before, though he is in two of my games right now. Personally I don’t mind if you use this strategy, since you were upfront about it. But following Fritzler doesn’t protect you from blame, if we happen to lose an innocent.

I know what you're referring to, but how is this relevant now? Not only are me and Fritz voting for seperate people, but I was the first person to vote for theman.

At 4 votes out of 7 I don't expect a roleclaim. I do however, expect some sort of attempt to be made of a defense (5/6 is more appropriate for roleclaiming, unless there's nonvoting pressure from several other people as well). In order to make that easier for you, i'll post my agruments here...

1) The original reason I voted you... for suggesting blindly following bandwagons was a good endgame tactic.

2) Then, you OMGUS'd me after responding to chamber's post... here

chamber wrote:
Since I havnt posted in here for far too long. Vote: themanImo the last couple posts of his haven't seemed like they were coming from a town pov .

You mean like disagreeing with shameless bandwagoning?
unvote
vote: Twomz
What an idiot.

3) Then IN THE NEXT POST you say "No, I'm voting for someone who is trying to creae false suspicion. " When, in the post before, you said you voted me for shameless bandwagoning (I was the first person to vote you btw, although you may be referring to my following Fritz, which I don't really concider "shameless" bandwagonning)

4)

We're obviously in a somewhat stagnant position right now, so a deadline may be a good idea.

obv scum tactic.

That's it really... not that much, but good enough for day 1, imo.

[Twomz]

? Erm, unvoting to give a replacement time to reread the thread and post at least once isn't exactly scummy behavoir imo.

[Twomz]

Hey, zomgthiskeboardsucks,thespacebar breaks over50 % of thetime:(. but,i'mstillaliveand here. I'm waitingonthe replacementsrightnow.

[Twomz]

Stupid comp lab computers w/ the disfunctioning spacebars . I have to go do my laundry now, so i'll bring my laptop w/ me and try to state a case against theman... brb.

[Twomz]

Wait, i've already posted my argument . Would someone else like to take a crack at it?

[Twomz]

I'm waiting for the replacements to catch up. But, i am checking the thread daily, so it's more a lack of anything to add than a not wanting to add anything deal right now.

[Twomz]

Thesps post pointing fingers at the three doesn't really make me that suspicious of them... BUT... when all three of the accused take on an "OMGUS THAT'S PUER CRAPELOGIC!" attitude, and all three go straight into survival mode, it makes me think he's onto something.

unvote, vote: Mayhem

Hammah when ready captain.

[Twomz]

Stupid townies are bad because the scum won't NK them and they'll be the ones representing the townside in the endgame... and the scum will probably manipulate them into killing each other for a win (unless we have stupid scum, or something).

[Twomz]

Shadowlurker... would you rather Kirby just hammah him now before he gets a chance to claim? I for one always do what Kirby just did, and find it far more protown than scummy.

[Twomz]

What chamber's doing is exactly the same as what I normally do... it's almost as if we're the same person on different accounts. I don't think he's acting scummy at all... now... if it was day 3 or 4 and he was acting like this... then yes, i would think it scummy. But for Day 1, imo, what he's doing is not scummy (- the lurking, which is just rude).

Regardless of Mayhem's alignment... i'm probably going after Shadowlurker tomorrow... just a warning. I must also point out that Thesp may be throwing scumbuddies under the bus (if the people he's pointed out turn up scum), so he's actually more likely to go up on my scumlist if they turn up scum, than if they turn up townie.

Mayhem, can we get a claim plz?

[Twomz]

Reasons I think people are scummy...

DEFLECTING bandwagons: Scum probably won't blatantly defend a teammate... but, more often than not, they will try to present a "better" alternative to take some of the flak off their teammates wagon.

Saying you're suspicious of several players, then voting for another: X is scummy because ____, Y is scummy because ____, but, i think i'll vote Z for now. (Of X, Y, and Z, there's a good chance that one is scum, and very low possiblity that all are scum) 3 is the most common number of this, so far as i've seen.

Pushing for a wagon w/o joining it: When going over the vote records, they're typically looked over, which is slightly safer. Major scumtell imo.

Lurking: NOT a scum tell. But, very antitown behaviour, and lurkers should be replaced unless they stop lurking. (usually, best way to get them to stop lurking is to wagon them... then if they still don't respond get them replaced)

Changing opinions on a player w/o any real reason: At beginning of day, says X is scummy and should be lynched... then towards the end of the day starts saying that he's obviously protown... and there's no reason to lynch him. (scum trying to save another scum, usually)

Directing the Doc/cop: If you're town, try not to do it. ESPECIALLY don't say "protect me" or "inspect me" or w/e. Asking the doc to protect the claimed cop is alright as long as the person asking isn't the claimed cop. Requesting that the person w/ the second most votes is investigated is usually ok... but is probably not necessary, unless the cop as been outed.

Directing the vig: Actually, ths should be ok, as long as it's town consensus (2nd lynch if you will).

Staying off the radar: People who are just trying to slip by to the endgame are usually scum.

"Just give me one day" or "you can always kill me tomorrow": If a person is trying harder to survive than point out who's scum... there's probably a reason for it.

That's all i can really think of, but i'm sure there's more... I know the question wasn't really directed towards me... but i want everyone to know how i stand on scumminess.

[Twomz]

. For some reason I don't believe him... but there's no reason not to test his claim. Any ideas?

Also our real cop(s), plz don't try to counterclaim this earlier. There's technically 2 cop roles anyway, and we don't want both of them revealed (ie, if just one person claims, then we've outted both the "cops" even though one of them is probably scum.)

[Twomz]

Did theman put him at -1 or hammah him?

I don't agree w/ the "we can afford to lose one" mentality, but, I believe he's lying, so it doesn't matter to me either way. If we agree to move on and not lynch mayhem today, then i'll unvote, but i'm leaving my vote there until I have a reason to move on (a shadowlurker or theman wagon would be good enough reason for me right now).

[Twomz]

I might move my vote to shadowlurker... but shadowlurker's post 366 reminded me... Mayhem could be telling the truth... but he could also be scum. Remember, roles are assigned, then alignment is assigned... we could very well have our cop be scum. So, i'm leaving my vote on mayhem for now. If continual pushing of his wagon becomes pointless, i'll move to SL.

[Twomz]

There is another cop role, just not the traditional type (yes/no question man).

[Twomz]

Why are you voting him if his playstyle doesn't dictate his alignment? I'm not sure if I get your argument SV.

unvote, vote: Shadowlurker

At the very least we can force Mayhem to play some WIFOM w/ the town for a day or 2 before killing him.

[Twomz]

^^^ zind makes a good point. Also, unless a mafiaso dies or something, there's very little good that can come from the cop claiming... also, how do you know it's really the cop claiming? It's MUCH safer to lynch you.

If the real professor DOES NOT claim, and just votes for mayhem, that'd be great, just in case... we don't want all our powerroles revealed because of one person.

[Twomz]

Opps, i missed the last page. But yeah, this is why I said at the beginning that claiming shouldn't be looked upon to highly in this game.

I pretty much agree w/ Kirby... although that'd be way too easy, one of them is probably just a misguided townie.

[Twomz]

Nai, the scum roles/alignments are chosen AT RANDOM. It's completely possible that the cop is scum. Read the first post plz.

[Twomz]

"Bastard" mafia. The mafia could very well have the cop the vig and the doc. We'll just have to deal w/ it and lynch the scum, reguardless of claims.

[Twomz]

I'm going to wait for more people (specifically Fritz) to post before I decide which way i'm going to go for today.

On Nai... either scum/vig kills won't be showed... or maybe the vig was bastardized so it didn't show... I can't really think of any other possiblity beyond Mayhem's "equation" having something to do w/ an uninformed mafia kill.

Just to make it public knowledge... a VERY minor scum tell makes me want to vote for Thesp. I won't reveal what it is... because if I do, then it wouldn't work anymore (I've used it in other games w/ mixed results). It's almost solid WIFOM though, that's why i'm not voting for him.

[Twomz]

??????????? W T F? Chamber... why on earth did you just claim?

[Twomz]

vote: shadowlurker

Mkay... that does make more sense... but now our cop and our vig are outted.

Chamber, did you recieve any sort of pm from the mod that may have indicated that you'd been bastardized?

If/when shadowlurker turns up mafia, we'll just have one left, so we may actually want all the power roles to claim what they've done so far so we can figure out what to do... but if he's town, I don't think that'd be a good idea. And please don't claim til we discuss whether it's a good idea or not.

[Twomz]

Welcome back Nai.... ?

Chamber, did you hit Thesp too? If so why?

Fritz, erm, did you hit scum?

Finally, should everyone go ahead and claim? Or wait til tomorrow?

[Twomz]

Vote: themanhimself

? You didn't even try to read the deathscene?


Question asker... 1) please tell me you've been asking, "Is X scum" 2) If 1) is true, then who's innocent and who's scum 3) If 1) is false... WHY and have you gotten anything useful so far.

[Twomz]

unvote, vote: chamber

@ Theman: So, you sometimes post, when you haven't slept in a while, w/o telling anyone that you can't think straight, and w/o reading the posts above you? That's something that's good to know BEFORE you post rather than after.

Nai makes an excellent point about chamber... why would he kill thesp?

I'll probably be hopping around (vote wise) today... I'm still waiting on Fritz (if he got a guilty (actually, got an innocent, but w/e) i'm very likely to vote for that person), and I'd be up for a chamber wagon or a theman wagon right now.

Could we plz get a little bit of discussion going people?

[Twomz]

.......

unvote, vote: Theman

I'm not sure if I buy chambers comment or not... but man theman... i thought my crap logic was crappy... but yours definately takes the cowpie.

Bogre wrote:
Vote: Themanhimself

You omgus'd pretty hard there and were getting defensive.

Well whether or not I got defensive, my points were valid. Yours are not.
FoS: bogre

What point? The one where you said someone who died and was shown town was likely to be scum? The one where you OMGUS me for calling you on it and put up the defense of you were sleepy? The one where you reply sarcastically to my sarcastic attack on you (this one i understand)? Or the part where you missed where Chamber removes people from the game for a day instead of killing them?

Theman... I want you to get some sleep... then read what's happened today VERY CAREFULLY... then post. Kthx.

[Twomz]

that's no good. It would seem Fritz isn't as reliable anymore... possibly bastardized?

Question asker... if you have found scum, claim today. If not, then I hope you have 3 innocents tomorrow, that'll make it a whole lot easier on us.

I'd be fine w/ either a Theman lynch or a Chamber lynch.

[Twomz]

Can we have more people's opinions? Kthx.

[Twomz]

Yeah, theman is scum, I can tell, lynch him now plz, kthx. (while this strangely grammered sentence is written in jest, it's founded in a strong resolve. I really do think theman is scum now)

Also, did my post before you post count towards the deadline Pariah? If it didn't, count this one plz

[Twomz]

Theman is scum, chamber might be scum, PJ is probably the comod.

[Twomz]

ZOMG!!! I just had a revaltion... Chamber, if you aren't scum, remove yourself from the game tonight, you'll just come back tomorrow night right?

[Twomz]

vote: chamber

Anyone have any useful information?

[Twomz]

Chamber... lol, you can't be serious. That's awesome if it's true.

[Twomz]

Can we get everyone to check in plz? Kthx.

[Twomz]

Ok, everyone's checked in...

Before we lynch chamber... how bout we do a full claim? It's 6 vs 1 at this point, so it shouldn't matter that much... what I really want is for the question asker to come forward and give some sort of useful information .

Yes or no?

Also, do we have any other candidates besides Chamber for lynch? Most the people left (from my pov) are either lurkers or probably protown... (one of the reasons I want a chamber lynch).

[Twomz]

We have 7 players left... by eliminating Chamber, there will be a maximum of 1 night kill. So, we'll have 2 lynches to win.

Chamber's point against Thesp may be valid... but there's an equal chance of chamber being blocked.

Does anyone have anything to comment on about a Mass Claim at this point?

1. Thesp - Genealogist
2. Fritzler - Insane Cop
3. Bogre
4. Nai
5. chamber - Vig
9. Twomz
10. kirbyphreak

Roles remaining
Doctor
Restrictor
Cleric
Townie


I REALLY would like it if the Cleric claimed and gave us some useful information. It would be such a help at this point in the game to get some more info.

[Twomz]

Do we want everyone to claim, or just the roleblocker and cleric, so the mafia has a hard time hitting the doctor?

Can everyone voice their opinion on this please? (i'm for RBer and Cleric claiming).

[Twomz]

Chamber, if they try to hit the doctor, then he's still doing his job because they won't be going after hte real power roles. We have AT MOST 2 days left, and we have at least 2 information roles left... the doc claiming shouldn't matter that much (it would be a wasted NK for the scum by this point, something they can't afford).

I'd really like for the RBer to claim... and i'd prefer if the Cleric claimed. (If you haven't figured it out yet, i'm either the last townie, or the doc, and that's as far as I plan on claiming, i suggest the other townie/doc does the same)

Can we get more contribution here folks? If you're one of the last 2 powerroles... we're waiting on you, wtf are you waiting for?

[Twomz]

Hmm... I thought restrictor was a RBer... but yes, you're right, it doesn't specifically say RBer.

We have 3 votes on chamber right? After the cleric (hopefully) tells us something useful, I think we should get chamber to vote himself to test kirby's claim... althought, he might have been bastardized, and is really a RBer now.

[Twomz]

1. Thesp - Genealogist
2. Fritzler - Insane Cop
3. Bogre - Cleric
4. Nai
5. chamber - Vig
9. Twomz
10. kirbyphreak - Restrictor

Hmm.... well, that was much less helpful that I was hoping it would be... Either Bogre is lying or bastardized... I was hoping for actual yes/no answers .

My suggestoin is a Chamber lynch. Then we can go from there... I'm mildly concerned about both Kirby and Bogres claimed... but I suppose it's just the nature of the game.

[Twomz]

So... the mod said you can choose ___, ___, or ___... and you picked players to go along w/ the choices?

Also, a lot of those choices seem too conveinient...

[Twomz]

......................... WTF?

So....... Bogre is telling the truth? *sigh* Lets just kill chamber and move on... plz?

[Twomz]

Btw, I protected fritz every night... *shrug*.

GG y'all.. hey ... I didn't die, the town won, and I was Doc... First time for everything eh?

Thesp did a pretty good job coming in replacing like that and finding us scumzorz. He gets my vote .

[Twomz]

On another note... I was actually hoping the Doc bastardation was to kill the target, so that I could go on a mafia killing spree... instead of sitting there and RBing the cop... like what would have happened if I was bastardized.

[Twomz]

Don't worry Pariah... I've had similar experiences... *wince*