Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Zindaras]

Vote: Wizardcat

DrippingGoofball's logic is unquestionably correct.

[Zindaras]

3 random votes. That's not a lot.

Besides, your logic was so awesome, I had to follow it. It tasted like catnip. ^_^

[Zindaras]

I wanted a page 1 hammer.

A Page 2 doesn't feel the same. So I guess I'll

Unvote

.

[Zindaras]

I blame bertrand for taking up six of the first page's votes.

Would you like me to delete every post on the first page that does not include a vote on Wizardcat?

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: I meant posts.

Of course you did

[Zindaras]

Carbon Copy's probably an alt for a player, or maybe he's an alt for the mod or even someone not in the game.

The question is: is it scum or is it town?

Previous experiences with alts suggest that he should be scum. I've seen alts used in three games. One identical to this, where it was a scum-alt, but also obviously scum by flavour. I've seen one in a very complicated game, which was also scum. I've also seen an alt which would replace a specific player, as if brainwashed.

[Zindaras]

Would you like me to delete every post on the first page that does not include a vote on Wizardcat?

That'd be pretty awesome.

By the way, Glork, the games I was referring to was Porn Studio Mafia on TS, Unrealistic Mafia on WotC and Scientific Mafia on WotC.

[Zindaras]

CC is either Battle Mage or it's someone faking him.

Quoting goodness.

[Zindaras]

*shrugs*

I wouldn't discount the possibility of him actually being Battle Mage (or, as I said, bertrand). Bastard Moddery, Pure Weirdness, Nonsense. He'd need MeMe approval, but it'd be pretty funny and weird all the same.

I think suspects is a poor choice of words, by the way.

[Zindaras]

I think the people who are voting Carbon Copy purely on role basis right now are more scummy than Carbon Copy himself.

[Zindaras]

*shrugs*

Think what you want. Though I'd like to see your reasons?

[Zindaras]

I was talking about this vote, mainly:

Unvote, Vote: Carbon Copy.

I think on principle, it's far more likely Carbon Copy is Not Good(tm).

[Zindaras]

Bah, stupid "Don't lie as town" rule.

Yes, CC is my alt.

I faked BM because I thought it was hilarious (I seriously did. Coughed water all over the sink when I thought of the idea. Twice, actually. I have a strange sense of humour).

Why did I not just state "Well, I've got this here alt"? Because I think it'd be pretty lame that way, and I really didn't see the use of it. If I come out with it right then and there, I can't use the alt in any real way, just as an extra vote. So I instead tried to get some reactions before coming out with it, which was another reason why I faked BM. BM brings out reactions in people, whether they are irritation, anger, suspicion, or wtf-ness.

The distancing? I was just having fun. You'll note that I've been defending CC most of the time.

I tried to get most of CC for the short time I knew I'd be able to hide the fact that he was me (especially with the whole time zone thing). I know I have a distinct posting style.

I think reactions to this will provide to be pretty useful.

[Zindaras]

Rainbow. Flavour's that I'm the first cloned cat, and Carbon Copy's the first clone.

[Zindaras]

Wikipedia link.

[Zindaras]

Excuse me?

[Zindaras]

What is your reason for saying I'm fabricating this?

[Zindaras]

It's horrible logic to lynch a guy simply because his role has usually be scum in the past, especially with a role like this, which makes sense not only as scum, but also as town. I was trying to see who would jump on the suggestion and vote over it.

[Zindaras]

I'm not simply going to throw everything on the streets because one or two players are asking me to. Many people haven't had the opportunity to post after I claimed Rainbow. Only if the general consensus is that I should full claim will I actually do so.

[Zindaras]

As an aside, I'd like to point out that both Rainbow and Carbon Copy are actual famous cats, not fictional.

[Zindaras]

Zindicakes. *giggles*

It will be applicable tonight.

[Zindaras]

Do you always lynch one Mason to confirm the other?

[Zindaras]

I know CC to be town. CC knows me to be town. While we are not confirmed town to the outside world as a Mason pair would be, we are confirmed town to ourselves, and the Mafia can't let us reach endgame.

Hastily lynching one of us today is horribly short-sighted.

[Zindaras]

Once one dies, the other is confirmed, that's what I was alluding at in my comparison to masons. Same thing here. One of my accounts is bound to die at one given time.

Do you really think that Scumdaras would give up the whole thing like that?

The best way to play the role as scum is to keep hidden, keep low, don't post anything that may compromise you, and only come in to hammah/vote. That's how I played in when I actually got a comparable role with an alt (though I never got to hammah or post anything at all, as I got SKilled).

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Reference. Bad game, bad players, and my Alt didn't make one post in the entire damn thread, but you get the point.

[Zindaras]

I thought I was voting Primate...

Vote: Primate

[Zindaras]

I wanted to use one of my accounts to vote Primate over his 4th vote on Wizardcat, but I see I never did. I thought I had.

My vote on him isn't pure OMGUS, though I didn't really like the way he attacked me either. I don't like the way he wagoned onto Wizardcat early on, unvoting an earlier vote to cast a new one.

[Zindaras]

My role and Zindies Role are near

identical

. Do you really think that this town has two sets of multiple life townies?

Yes. Also, if I remember correctly, one-shot unkillability is an often-used godfather ability.

There are very few famous cats, you know. It's funny because I did a bit of research about famous cats for Kitten Mafia, a game I'm hosting elsewhere.

@Zindie: Way to stretch like hell.

I prefer to use what little behaviour I have to go on to place my vote rather than not do anything at all.

[Zindaras]

often used? I assume you're embellishing the truth there, again. When you say 'often used', you mean, 'is not completely unknown'.

Oh, I was under the impression that it was, in fact, pretty known, as I think someone actually used it against me once.

There's what? 9, maybe 8 townies in this game? I'm sure you managed to come up with 9 famous cats. And even if he did, he wouldn't use such similar abilities on such similar roles.

No, not really. I didn't do an in depth search, to be honest, but a quick search only delivered a couple of kittens/cats. Most famous cats are fictional.

And your idealistic defence of your omgus is noted.

It's not an OMGUS-vote. That you're accusing me of that is bullcrap.

[Zindaras]

If either part of me dies, the other one sticks around.

Primate, I don't think metagaming is a smart idea. This is a game of nonsense, weirdness, and bastard modding. I think you're creating a false dilemma, intentionally or unintentionally.

[Zindaras]

Glorky, do you really think that the way I've played this game is the way Scumdaras would play the role?

[Zindaras]

You've never actually played against me as scum. We were either scum together (MtG 9, Realistic, Corrupted Agent Smith) or only you were scum (only exception was me being SK twice with you as town).

But that's besides the point. I already linked you to the game where I had a similar role and played it very differently.

Scumdaras uses roles like this in a way that he's not found out, because if he is, he's screwed. Towndaras uses it to get some reactions. That's something I like to do as town.

[Zindaras]

Mixing up my playstyle to instead use an inefficient and, to be honest, suicidal playstyle is not a good way to approach a game. Oh, yes, I do approach games differently, but only if the playstyles are reasonably interchangeable in efficiency.

Besides, who was going to slap precedence on me? You? I don't think you read that game. TS Mafias are hardly good reads.

The whole distancing thing is a bit silly. I feel it is somewhat WIFOM. It's such an unwholesomely obvious distancing that it's more linking than distancing.

[Zindaras]

I think suspects is a poor choice of words, by the way.

I think the people who are voting Carbon Copy purely on role basis right now are more scummy than Carbon Copy himself.

I think that's a fair defense regarding CC.

I do not lie as town. What else should I have done? Deny it? Admit it?

[Zindaras]

I learn from my mistakes. We have a saying here. "Only a mule hurts himself with the same stone twice." (Bad translation)

I know what happened in 311. I lied for no reason and I paid the price for it. To simply brand me as a liar for that is overeager, for I would not do it again.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Besides, 311 is almost a year ago by now.

[Zindaras]

appeal to emotion. scum scum scum

vote: Zindaras

There is no Appeal to Emotion.

A speedlynch at this time in the day is stupid.

[Zindaras]

Asides from that, Carbon Copy is a famous actual cat. Carbon Copy is not fictitious. Is there a fictitious cat named Carbon Copy? No. Flavour screams town.

Also, theopor is one of the worst wagoners I ever did see.

FoS: Theopor

[Zindaras]

So Glork, when I turn up town, you'll be voting Primate?

[Zindaras]

I'm frustrated, Phoebus.

Also, regarding your expendability point, townies are indeed expendable, but lynches aren't, and since I'll turn up town and am really unsure about Primate being scum, I'm afraid that we'll be wasting way too many lynches and kills.

As for Glork's points, I'll get to them later, but PSV-Arsenal is about to start.

[Zindaras]

Safe claims exist. CC's name is like a built-in safe claim. I'm suspicious of you both because of the way that you handled having CC and because Primate counterclaimed. Unless Primate is pulling a

massive

WIFOM, I don't think he'd do so as scum. And as it's been pointed out, having two nearly-identical roles (functionally, anyway) is pretty pointless.

So you're basically outguessing the mod...twice, once by saying the two roles can't coexist, and once by saying that he'd build a safe claim in it. You're also saying that I didn't play CC like a Townie would, but it is neither the way a Scumbag would. I've already pointed out the earlier game in which I had an alt as scum and how I played it then. Also, Scumdaras has

no

reason at all to

ever

admit to being Carbon Copy, because that damns him.

[Zindaras]

Phoeby, I was at uni and busy with other stuff like my paper.

[Zindaras]

I'm not playiing "Outguess the Mod" so much as I'm using my knowledge of most thematic games, and most games in general.

Most themed games, if they can be broken due to flavor reasons (such as the "Cartooniness" of scumbags) provide safe claims in some form or another.
Most games do not include multiple copies of unique or unusual roles. And double-life roles are indeed very unique.

I argue that to posit

anything else

is to play Outguess the Mod.

This is not like most games. That is all I can say, as I obviously cannot rebut this point except by dying and having Primate killed afterwards.

I have also already addressed your "but here's how I played this role as scum before" point. It is necessary to change your play from game to game. In fact, I would not be surprised if "Scumdaras," upon recieving the role, said to himself, "Aha... here's how I can compare this to the past to explain why I wouldn't be scum." It's complete and utter WIFOM.

It's not WIFOM. WIFOM implies two equal choices. The choices are obviously not equal, because playing in this (very very much imperfect) way leads me to being run up and lynched (or at the very least puts me in quite a bit of danger), while playing in the perfect way means that I won't ever get connected to my other account.

Playing like crap so you can pull WIFOM out your sleeve is not a good strategy as scum.

[Zindaras]

No, the sitaution you present

IS

WIFOM.

"I can play the same way, or I can play it differently and use 'but I played it this way last time' as a defense." You also present the "Scum wouldn't do this, and I did this, so I'm not scum" argument which is very typical of a WIFOM defense.

There are two possible ways to play it out. Play X and Play Y.

Play X will give me a given amount of suspicion, r. Play Y will give me a given amount of suspicion s, which, let's say, is three times as large as r. However, Play Y will also give me a defense, which will, lessay, half the suspicion on me. Play X is obviously the superior play. Play Y may allow me to raise a defense, but is still an all-around worse play compared to Play X.

And once again, your defense implies that you let yourself get caught.

I think you realized that I had found out you were CarbonCopy, and that I was going to lynch you anyway. I even said that I wanted to lynch

Zindaras rather than CC.

And because you say something or want to get someone lynched, it's obviously going to happen, right?

and proposed that CC might be scum

As I pointed out before, this was done to see who would jump on CC purely for flawed role reasons.

[Zindaras]

If we're positing that one or the other has to be scum, isn't in the town's best interest to try the one that has no extra vote first? It seems like the extra vote might be important somewhere down the line.

It'll take two lynches to find out Primate's alignment.

In other news, I'm out of town for the weekend, heading into Zindarasland to play in GP Amsterdam and throw things at people in Eindhoven for knocking out my beloved Arsenal.

I'm a PSV-fan.

Harhar.

As I said before, the way to play the roles (one-shot revive or alt) is massively different. The roles are not essentially the same.

[Zindaras]

I hate you guys so much.

Well, at least my clone will see you tomorrow.

[Zindaras]

As an aside, this marked quite a few things for me. The 50th game I survived (with Carbon Copy), the 25th game I was lynched (with Zindaras), and almost the 100th game as Town (it was only the 99th *sad*).

Yay for meaningless statistics!

[Zindaras]

Yeah, we were way overpowered. Hard time on the scums.

[Zindaras]

*mad*

No huggles for you anymore.