Mini 422 - Paranoia Mafia - Game Over

[dahen]

/confirm

How would we fully understand The Computer if we didn't have communications and recording officers?

[dahen]

Nice VC there, DiamondHawk.

Here is my eager contribution:

vote Mojo

Although the vote is random, I am very happy about it.

[dahen]

Certainly.

Friend computer, would you be so kind as to give us a vote count.
That would be awesome!

And why don't you guys realize the fun in voting Mojo?

[dahen]

Well, I am a happiness officer. So if it makes you happy...
Vote: Playswithsquirrels

Got anything to say for yourself Squirrels?

Stark, are you nervous because you're late for your Secret Society meeting?

Way to try to be on both wagons. I'm getting happier with my Mojo vote.

PWS, your answer does not compute.

Are you a mutant? If so, are you registered?
Are you a member of a secret society?
Do you wear fur hats during night cycles?
What is your clearance level?

Are you serious?

PWS, you chose to ignore all my questions (post 75). Those were serious questions (except maybe the third one) and I expect serious answers.

Appearantly you ARE serious.

What's a squirrel? FoS: Cogito Ergo Sum

What's your reason for that FOS?

[dahen]

Other than the fact that my question about stark's nervousness is a joke taken from the Pen&Paper Paranoia, I didn't express any desire to join the stark wagon.
I didn't vote him, I didn't FOS him and I made no remark about me being suspicious of him.
The fact that you use such a ridiculous accusation in order to push for a wagon on me makes me very suspicious of you.

Ok, I'm satisfied with how you handle my accusations, so

unvote Mojo

. The unvote has nothing to do with you expressing suspicousness of me, though.

I believe my reason is right there. Are you implying you know what a squirrel is? FoS: dahen

I haven't said that. I asked you for the reason for the FOS. Are you implying that squirrels are something you shouldn't have knowledge of?

[dahen]

Sarcastro - You are picking up my track against Mojo, but I just left it you see. I might get back to it, but I think he handled the pressure quite well. However, we need to here from the inactive players like MM. Where is he?

Team leader

, please request a prod on MM.

Friend computer

, your previous vote count made me so happy. Can we have another?

[dahen]

Note to all my games:
Sorry for my inactivity during Easter. I will be unavailable for a maximum of 48 more hours. Then I'll promise to catch up.

[dahen]

Hi, I'm here and reading, but I'll have to act like a lurker for a while. I'm putting the majority of my scum time on an end-game situation.

At the moment M4yhem looks like a tempting vote, but I'll need to figure out what's really happening.

[dahen]

Ok, I've read up, but it seems like we lost a bit. Could someone tell me if it was something interesting?

Also,

mod: votecount, please

[dahen]

Nothing much happening here. Is everybody happy with the current situation? I'll try to re-read and get some new views on the matter.

[dahen]

Ok. Reread as promised.
I'll type as I read:

p1
nothing of interest
p2

Barroman

strikes me as a little scummy when over-explaining his vote on CES and even calling it stupid.
p3
[/i]PWS defends[/i] himself weirdly to what seems like a normal D1-wagon by CES+Sarc. He seems to actually suggest that they are both scums (or I am missing some irony).

stark

points out that M4yhem is defending PWS. This could be to later have a reason for a vote.

Stevie

votes Stark for the above. Stark replies he is not nervous.
p4

Mojo

asks PWS for lots of role info.

Barroman

continues to question M4yhem votes but says nothing constructive himself. Scum defending townie seems possible.

Sarc

FOSes Mojo, but later admits it was without much of a reason.

Stevie

defends PWS. Says he looks bad but prefers other lynch.

Sarc

takes the opportunity to FOS Stevie based on the above.

PWS

refuses to claim (with added "at this time")

Stark

admits lurking.
p5

Barroman

continues his hunt for explanations. His own explanation isn't much, though.

dahen(me)

with his first post accuses Mojo. So far in the re-read I wonder why I didn't attack Barroman or Sarc instead.

To be continued

[dahen]

p6

M4yhem

suspects me, Barroman and Stark. Asks CES to vote Stark.

CES

moves his vote to Stark per Myhem's request.

DH

says nothing of where he stands.

Barroman

changes his vote to M4yhem because he doesn't like his attitude.

M4yhem

now moves his vote to me for no new reason. And no reason why he unvotes Stark.

Barroman

now questions M4yhem's reason for voting me.

Maz

says is a scum-tell and votes M4yhem for that.

At this point I think Barroman makes his life very easy by just asking for explanations all the time. However, I'm getting a town vibe from him (not for defending me, though). At this point, Sarc, MM or Stark seems like good choices.

[dahen]

FoS: dahen

How on earth do you figure that MM, Stark and I are good lynches? I don't see any explanation, just a summary of what's happened so far.

Also, how would you like to put your money where your mouth is and actually vote for someone? I would suggest Stevie, seeing as how he's scum, but M4yhem seems to be a popular choice among those who prefer to lynch pro-town players.

You don't seem to have read the introduction to my posts.
I said that I wrote my thoughts as I read page by page. I still haven't come to the last pages, so why would I NOW vote someone that was a suspect on page 6?

I will continue my analysis. Then I will draw conclusions. Then I will vote. Until then you are free to discuss my thoughts or ignore them, whatever makes you happy.

[dahen]

I'm on a trip to Cornwall and won't be back until Wednesday. Probably no access in the meantime.

[dahen]

Time to continue my analysis:

p7

Mayhem

explains that from the source material he thought that all mutants were anti-computer and thus bad guys.

Mojo

steps in and says that only registered mutants are non-threats to computer. He also says he is happy with his vote on PWS.

Barroman

votes Mayhem for attitude.

Mayhem

votes Dahen for attempt to mastermind.

MM

says not every PC is a mutant, but that every PC is a SS-member.

Mayhem

says that SS-members are traitors and that traitors are anti-town.

Barroman

questions Mayhem's vote on Dahen.

Diamondhawk

sees bastard modding as possible.

Sarcastro

accuses Mojo for meaningless PWS vote.

stark

says it's obvious that the pro-computer agents are mafia.

MM

votes Mayhem for rolling eyes.

We have quite a lot of setup speculation here to look at.
Mayhem says SS-members are traitors.
Mayhem says Traitors are anti-town.
stark says that Pro-computer agents are anti-town.
DiamondHawk believes the Communists are mafia.
Coron says that you can (and are) treasonous without being anti-computer and I assume he means anti-town.

[dahen]

p8

Sarc

doesn't want to talk game mechanics until later for fear of helping scum in fake-claiming. Votes Mojo for wanting too much info.

Barroman

doesn't like MM's rollseye-vote on Mayhem

Mayhem

foses Stark for thinking pro-computers are scum.

MM

says nobody seems scummy.

Diamondhawk

defends dahen and suspects Mayhem a little. Also thinks it's too early to speculate on setup.


Sarcastro strikes me as a good player. He points out pro-town stuff in a manner I attempt as town just as well as scum. The choice of conclusions drawn from it is what's interesting. His vote on Mojo is consistent with the vote-those-who-speculate-too-much-too-early-strategy. I still thinks Sarcastro has voted a lot based on templates like this. I'll continue to watch his moves.

I don't care about Mayhem's roll-smiley, but I do care about his defense that "you can't seriously use it as evidence". The thing is that you can't use anything as evidence. The fact that you seem to think in terms of evidence when at this point everything is hunches and interpretations is at least somewhat scummy to me.

[dahen]

p9

Mayhem

clarifies his vote on me and Barrowman and also says he don't think Mojo is scum because of asking stupid questions.

Mojo

accuses Mayhem for being to certain Mojo is town.

CES

Foses Mayhem for trivializing scum tells.

PWS

jumps in to vote Stark for saying nothing.

Actually, Mayhem votes me for capitilizing in a similar way that I accuse Sarcastro of doing. I see that as pro-town, but I don't like how he has stuck with that. There's plenty more happening to consider. Also, I also agree with him suspecting Barrowman for looking for reasons, but as I said a couple of pages back, I got a pro-town vibe from Barrowman that I will stick with.

I will, however, defend Mayhem from Mojo's accusation that he is too certain that Mojo is town. That's not how I read his post (#204). I read it as he don't think Mojo's behaviour suggest that he is scum, and that he therefore is neutral rather than town. This makes Mojo's and Sarcastro's jump on Mayhem look bad. But I could be wrong.

I don't understand how PWS can be so inactive as he is and then in #211 accuse Stark for merely saying he is there. There is a lot more interesting stuff going on, and that even if you only look at Stark.

[dahen]

Continuing, since I want this written down before nightfall:

p10

Mayhem

votes Stevie for killing for smile.

Then NOTHING happens for a long time. This is important. We don't know today why, but I think we will know more later in the game. If Mayhem is town I think most scum are already on his wagon at this point. If Mayhem is scum, then scum might be waiting for somebody else to accuse. Anybody who suddenly would start to look elsewhere would be a suspect later on.

Sarcastro

states Mojo+Stevie as scum pair.

Barroman

also analyses the stall and votes Stevie to test him.

CES

silently votes Mayhem

dahen

posts analyses

p11

Sarcastro

foses dahen for lack of conclusions (but they are coming)

Sefer

replaces Mayhem and states that he didn't like Mayhem's play style. He votes Mojo for using a fact in a wrong way.

Stevie

unvotes Sefer because he likes the guy and want him around.

Mojo

is replaced by TCS, who votes Sefer for the setup discussion earlier.

Sarcastro

is worried by Sefer dying as town but asks him to claim.

Sefer

claims to not be a member of a SS.

TCS

wants claims from SS members.

TCS

wants Sarcastro to answer why Sefer is town and Stevie scum.

I think Sefer's vote on Mojo has a valid reason. The TCS vote on Sefer is also valid and the SS member thing could be worth something (by saying this I think you can infer that I'm a SS member). If we look at the stall, then Sefer is a good lynch since it will give us info.

[dahen]

p12

Sarc

doesn't want to publish case against Stevie but he says it's pretty good. I would like to hear it again or get a reference to an old post with the good case.

Sefer

votes Stevie to get a lynch before dead-line.

TCS

is happy with his vote on Sefer.

dahen

continues with analyses

Sarcastro

says dahen's analyses are interesting but doesn't say what he finds interesting.

It's here 3-3 between Sefer and Stevie

Sefer

uses machine empathy and double votes Stevie. (4-3)

MM

unvotes Sefer.

Sarcastro

wants a claim from Stevie.

Stevie

refuses to claim.

I like to speculate on setups even though it sometimes bites me. I think double voters are normally town, which means that this speaks in Sefer's favor.

Assuming Sefer is town and scum didn't add to his wagon during the stall (meaning scum are potentially on wagon) the logical choice is between those on the wagon at the stall, which are:

stark, Barroman, MM, Stevie, TCS

CES

later joined the wagon.

stark

unvoted without explanation.

I don't want

stark

to be forgotten.
I think

Barroman

is town.

MM

has barely posted at all.

CES

has posted a little more, but nothing substancial.

Stevie

has not said much other than his theory against Mayhem/Sefer.

Stevie:

I'd like to know what your current view on Sefer is and who you think should be lynched.

TCS/Mayhem

has interacted more with people and is a better lynch if we'd like information.

TCS:

Same question to you as to Stevie.

[dahen]

vote Stevie

to avoid a Sefer lynch, but I'd still like those answers from Stevie and TCS.

Stevie (Team leader)

Please prod Stark.

MM

Please post your thoughts.

[dahen]

There is an important difference between the two dead guys:
Stevie was a Communist and enemy to the Computer
Sefer was an enemy to the Computer.

Since the Computer is paranoid, it probably thinks everyone is a threat to the computer upon death investigation. However, only Communists are the real threat (at least that's how I interpret the material), which means that we should try to get rid of communists. That also means that Stevie was a real bad guy and Sefer a good guy, which seems logical.

[dahen]

TCS: You state two scenarios.
1. Communists are scum. You are town. Town should not lynch you.
2. Pro-computers are scum. You are scum. Town should lynch you.

Of course you are correct that town should lynch you in case two. But the problem is that you would be playing against your own win condition by supporting it. Scum can benefit from helping town and therefore getting trusted, but in this case you would be dead, and the trust would be wasted as soon as town saw you were scum.

This means that if you really think that 2 is a possibility, then you are playing really bad as scum. I don't think so, which means I think that you are probably very certain that number 1 is correct.

One reason that you can be sure of number 1 is if you are a communist and scum yourself. There is something that's not right about you.

[dahen]

PWS: Can you elaborate a little more on your reason for voting Sarc at this point?

You say that TCS is town if commies are scum. Then you say that you don't buy that just the communists are scum. I guess the use of the word "just" means that you DO believe that commies are scum, but that there might be other scum as well. Then I don't see why TCS couldn't be such a scum.

There is something wrong with your reasoning. Please explain to me if I have understood you incorrectly.

[dahen]

I am here. Please don't modkill me. I'm trying to keep up although I have hectic work. I just posted in Clue 1. I will attend to Clue 2 shortly.

[dahen]

Sarcastro: Why is TCS scum?

[dahen]

Oh, I'm looking forward to the setup and results.

Little does The Computer know that you are one of the members of the Sierra Club secret society

Sierra Club (referred to as Seal Club in some editions): The computer restricts leaving Alpha Complex to green clearance and above, and then only for good reasons. So, aside from Troubleshooters who may be sent into the great outdoors, almost no one in Alpha Complex has seen so much as a blade of grass. This great mystique has led to the formation of the Sierra Club, devoted to sneaking out. Some want to escape forever, others try to bring the wonders of nature to the less fortunate inside.

By being replaced, didn't I achieve the mission of escaping forever?
Ok, maybe not.