Mini 100 Rocky Horror Picture Show- Game Over

[willows_weep]

/Confirm cause this is gonna be like Wooottt!

[willows_weep]

Alright Day 1,
a simple party goer, see thats why you go with friends!

Random vote: Carmine for having any kind of intentions!

[willows_weep]

random

vote:Carmine

dp messed up my groove though...If only I hadn't turned to the tv while typing.

[willows_weep]

Narninian:well that would depend on how the game is created.

Tam:Youre waiting for everyone to post? That's not going to influence your vote or anything right? Dunno...the way you say that makes me feel that you possibly have the space to be free with your vote...

Why does it have to be a little freaky looking dude?

[willows_weep]

The last part was me commenting on the fact they werent all little.
It was just a little jive. No worries about that .

The second is just me feeling that what you said could insinuate that you can vote for whoever you want and be secure in the knowledge that you have the right or wrong person(depending on protown or anti)

the first is rhetorical. In technicality it is what you just said. Nothing was missed.
I will refrain from that style of posting. It was written in emotion/intent/personality trait that isn't easily conveyed in writing.
My whole post there would be more coherent if it was a face to face conversation.

I need to find a way to be understood/get what I am saying across better on this site...

[willows_weep]

Wait, re reading Mods post, who would have access to be able to use the machine to make people into statues?

Does this specific way of killing matter?
I mean is it of enough consequence? Because turning someone to stone is completely different from them being turned to stone and then tipping it over.

What do you all think about/on these things?

[willows_weep]

Thats the thing. There is more than one choice!
I watched the movie again like last week. A total of 3 characters had a hand in the weapon. But 2 of them with malicious intent. Actually Frank, had turned them into statues to put them in drag and make them a part of his show.He wanted to help them move out of their tedious sterile lives. You know? Well that's what I got out of the movie. A movement from the monotonous norm to vivid colors and mesh and passion.
And magenta and riff raff also had use of the tool. I don't know if I should count columbia or not, because she did touch the tool to attempt to freeze riff raff and magenta when they were trying to kill frank right?
I never really got her reason for screaming so early...



I don't know how large a mafia group would be in a 12 player game, and I don't know the usual schema for such a size. But I will check out some past 12 player games.
I am trying to get a sense of what characters would be like.
I already note that extra roles are designated as random party goers. Which alleviates my questions to what roles would make up a 12 player game where in the show there is usually 2-8characters on stage.

Do you mean like a doc like role as in who got lucky? Hm there is a doctor in the show. He wasnt a medical doc but...

[willows_weep]

Interesting, developments.
Thing is your evidence may point to her being some sort of killing party but there are many possible killing roles. Not all should be lynched.

How do you find out if your hunch is right? If the killing party is even of the mafiosi variety even then how does one figure if a hunch is right or not?

Not 100% but possible...hm. Killing party of how many? And well isn't it possible for any player to be possibly a part of a killing party unless that person is confirmed completely as 100% not?

But very interesting your post nonetheless. I will watch carefully(as I would have anyway) for the progression of your thoughts, and carmines response

[willows_weep]

hm, what bearing does that have on anything DP?

[willows_weep]

Oh I know you said slight fos, I am just confused is all.
Like what about my posting?
After my last newbie game I am trying to be more active in a constructive way for the town.

[willows_weep]

hmm maybe if players are feeling this way they may want to check me out in Sword of Truth mafia? Mini 79.

When I know a lot about the theme of a game I am exited. Everything I know about it constantly runs through my head. And I do inform the other players of these thoughts as they come.

-posts really don't offer too much-
I don't know what I could offer without any information and such. Isn't day one for getting thoughts out there?
So far only one person has responded to my question on what happened last night. I do have a habit of over thinking things but I do not think its a waste to try and gauge/reflect on what possible roles/abilities/actions have been distributed by looking through the mods post.
Narninians post heightens that interest.

-posting every other time--overcompensating-
Well I have access like that. I actually have more time on the weekends. And as soon as I see in my mail box that there has been a response I try to get to it.
If I have anything to add I will.

-wouldn't even possibly look in your direction-
My reasons for posting is to play. Right now I am trying to figure out how things may be working and find clues.

I am going to be away till Monday night or tuesday morn.

[willows_weep]

As far as I'm aware last night I was enjoying the party like I'd expect any other innocent to be.

Hm...Carmine wasn't the whole cast at the party?
Except the doctor, and meatloaf right?
Technically the historian(is that what he's called?)( Would he be in here? Or is he the acting role?) was even there.
Well if so (majority of cast members being at the party) it's not just innocents that would be there, unless scum are invented cast members.

If she's innocent, we can get Narninian tomorrow...

Orbiting I don't think that would work either. Narninian did say not 100%, but also not all killing abilities have to belong to scum.
Though its possible that Narninian could give that reason to appear pro-town helpful. But so far no one gets any concrete information from what Narninian said.
Its almost as if it wasn't said because there is no way to check it. Only those involved (Carmine, Narninian and if either of those are with others) can truely have a helpful answer ( Depending on Narninians hunch and how Narn. would figure out whatever Narninian is attempting to.)

OK, so we don't know what any of the roles are. SO we are just guessing? I thought the mod ussually says what the roles are that poeple might have. If there is a cop it would be the crimeologist. Columbia would not be mafia she never really did anything evil in the movie. Frank, RIff Raff and Megenta were evil if nay of them were. Rocky was the creature and abused but that was it. Janet and Brad were just there. The Party goers were there for a convention. Eddie died early so i don't think he is part of it or is he, and what about the lips in the intro? So how do we know how many "mafia" there are?

I don't know if we're guessing or not. But I do think it is perhaps slightly not too useful to guess characters and give them likely roles. This I say because a theme game wouldn't/may not be bundles of fun if it was to be that easy. Not to mention the fact that the characters are ambiguous.
See I can easily say this (with the way I think ) Rocky has no allegiance(but not in a sk way in my opinion) because he was just created and . Janet and Brad were not transylvanian party goers, but the party goer that died last night was pro-town. That leaves room for questioning whether or not nativity matters.
Columbia, did do a lot in the movie. She went against riff raff and magenta when they were attempting to kill Frank. (And that neat dance stuff!! "walking down the street.."). Eddie? Well, I would be pretty ticked off if I died so early in that movie. Especially knowing how to play the sax and having a motorcycle of my own, and a possible friday night date!
Frank was nice to Brad and Janet, and was all about the free love( He did get wacky when he thought they were the evil ones, and no he did not treat "faithful handy man" right. He did nix Meatloaf...). Sort of like if you take the plot of Pleasantville and stuff it into Frank. The criminolgist?( which I think I named the historian sorry) I figure just wants the truth to be found (which is more or less what you said. But still)
Riff raff and Magenta, hmm the doctor thanked them for killing frank, because frank killed meatloaf. Brad and Janet were let go because they werent transylvanian. Frank was killed because of a failed mission, and I suppose for killing Meatloaf because Riff raff did not protest when the doctor said thankyou for that specific purpose. But then why would they care...wouldn't killing meatloaf be the right thing to do to protect their secrets? The party goers were there for the convention yes. The party goers that were not Riff raff, magenta, frank, (rocky didnt really go

to

the party, and brad and janet hadnt intended to go) have always been there and also attended the party.
I don't know how we know the number of Mafia. But this is a 12 player game. So not too many (2-4?) or more than one group ( 2 groups of 2), or something else. Those I have mentioned are the ones I have mostly encountered in play and in reading past games.

Well my point is that there are numbers of possibilities, because everyone of us could analyze the movie and come up with something different in some way.

Wow that took forever. See what being away for a bit does?
And I can't preview my posts right now. Though I try.

[willows_weep]

Where is the correction?
3 groups of 2
or one group of 2 and sk

Eee 6 mafia in a twelve player?
Ooo 2 mafia and sk makes 3 anti-town/special sk case
Hmm...well after I write that out it seems better. I was worried about underfunding anti town. But since it does add to 3..

[willows_weep]

So are there any new thoughts any thing that can add to progression? I know day 1 doesn't usually teem with info this early, and I don't have anything else to contribute myself but does anyone ?

[willows_weep]

Popsiclestix:Hm, sometimes the killing roles can't kill the godfather(leader of Mafia) if there is one. There are a lot of variations on roles etc.

mafiascum.net
If you just go to that site without putting forum on it you can read up on it and such.
I offer the site because I know sk and such are explained there too...
(I know Quiller just explained the brunt of your questions already but there is ton of stuff there too)

From popsiclestix: "Vote: willows_weep he's acting particulary interested in this game... "

When to me it seemed like WW hadn't said much of anything by that point, other than being one of the first to post for the day. Nothing special.

Other things....WW had been posting quite overabundantly. While it's nice ot have the game moving along, it is a little bit of a fos for me.

I don't quite get this...is it because of time that I don't quite get this( when popsiclestix commented to the time you're commenting?) or are you actually fos'ing however slightly me for what you are observing/thinking from popsiclestic.

I mean...you state your observation, and to me it sounds like that would be a slight fos (the way its written sounds like that to me) and then you turn and say the same thing it seems you could slightly fos and then out of all the people you do fos however the extent popsiclestix is not included.

...so, can you help me figure out what is going on in that post I quoted from FrogGurl?

[willows_weep]

Actually I was surprised myself when FrogGurl quoted me as if understanding exactly what I meant.

I actually would like to know myself what/why FrogGurl used it.

I am going to read back to see if anyone else understood right off what I meant.

Oh yea post reply is a doll.

[willows_weep]

ICK!
Tam you hadn't understood even after you asked the first time?
I would have tried to explain it again...

Well what I meant is that mafia have the most freedom with their votes. They can give and retract more freely with the absence of doubt.Right?
Town usually don't know the alignment of the other players (unless masons or traitor or a investigator that trusts the mods answers etc)

Is that better?
I don't know if FrogGurl understood that that is what I was saying or not. Because in my opinion you would have to have gotten it exactly in order to feel you could quote and agree with it.
But honestly kudos to you if so. I am used to being misunderstood with the way I word things as is pretty obvious I think...:shrug:...

[willows_weep]

I dont see anything wrong with the amount of fos, or the fact it was done.
Right now I am skeeved that FrogGurl hasnt answered Tams question.
Well I don't see an answer for it anyway.

Though I personally wouldnt have fos practically everyone. I would have done something different. Which is why I dont think the fos is particularly suspicious for that reason. Its about preference right?

I dont think I was confused on any point other than you quoting me FrogGurl.
And hm you said from now on you will stay in the corner?
See that also sounds like : I should have layed low.
Which sounds scummy.

I don't know if you should feel uber pressured though. How many is it to lynch?
I mean the people who've just voted you don't seem to be hardcore into their votes. So maybe you can further try to show./prove you're innocent?
(you said you are).

[willows_weep]

Oki,
I don't want you to roleclaim...I don't know if anyone else wants you to

I get and know what DP was talking about and the strategy you implemented, duno about anyone else

Oh I don't know about the " maybe its a newbie thing" thing.

Well it explains/gives answers to questions so yup it helps

[willows_weep]

Probably since I have to be out of my room sunday for easter, and then I have lacrosse practice at 2, and I have hw I will do! Yay me.
And saturday...well saturday I will spend mostly bicycle riding around, walking in the woods I may visit some friends and such stay over with some off campus friends.
I wont be here next weekend though. I will post about that when its nearer though.

But did ML give a new deadline date? It has been a while

[willows_weep]

Sorry that was cut short. A friend of mine had invited me to watch a Pantera home video so I just pressed submit and ran! It was awesomely sick and neat.

By it has been a while I mean day 1 has lasted a bit, and I think many people have said they were waiting for narninian.
I don't see why though. Because nothing narninian has said has given anything of substance to go on (referring to the whole carmine? thing ).
I don't know whats up with MikeHart, but it is almost noon.
And I have a fellowship meeting at noon..not that it affects this game..

But I am going to

fos

narninian for seemingly casting suspicion on carmine and voting carmine and then unvoting carmine and saying

I dont know enough for a lynch - if she's claiming she's an innocent townie with out a night action. Ill know more tommorow.

Sure you said you had reason to believe:

have circusmtancial evidence based on last night that Carmine might be a killing party(not 100%, but possible) I dont want to say it yet, because it would give away my role - but my voting carmine is an attempt at finding out if my hunch is right, and not to lynch yet.

But if Carmine was part of/was a killing party that was more so detrimental (in possibility) to the town, would Carmine claim anything else? And either way wouldn't you narninian have to wait

Ill know more tomorrow

(I would also like to know how you will know more tomorrow it sounds like a progression thing)

[willows_weep]

Oh..ok then

Well now I am afraid to say anything....I dont know what will hinder Narninian or not

[willows_weep]

Hm didnt know you had night findings.
Going to go check that out

[willows_weep]

How ...what in Carmines posts clears mostly from your suspicion list?
And...see..I am not getting the point of a lot of your posts Narninian.

Your first post in my opinion implies that you may have expected more than one death and then you vote carmine

Hmmm only one death.... VOTE: Carmine

Then you further question there being only one death in your second post of the day by asking if that was normal and asking if docs or roleblockers were in play.
I know there doesn't have to be docs or roleblockers in a game but if they are in a game and not dead that makes them automatically in "play" and thus automatically giving you an answer.

Then in response to questions and fos's you tell that

I have circusmtancial evidence based on last night that Carmine might be a killing party(not 100%, but possible) I dont want to say it yet, because it would give away my role - but my voting carmine is an attempt at finding out if my hunch is right, and not to lynch yet.

Then saying

dont know enough for a lynch - if she's claiming she's an innocent townie with out a night action. Ill know more tommorow

What about the circumstantial evidence? I am supposing your vote was to see Carmines reaction. Thing is you seem to have

expected

a reaction of some sort. Which leads me to question
1) why had you expected multiple deaths
2) why had you expected Carmine to react in a certain way( Your posts in my opinion indicate that you may have had/have some level of exact expectation. My opinion is based on the way you word your posts).

Well you tell us later that

I really don't have any info that would help us find mafia, yet. Ill reveal all tommorow if it leads to something

Well is that because you just figured that your circumstantial evidence for Carmine did not lead towards a killing party? Or that it did not lead towards a mafia based killing party?

grr this is long...

Then we get back to Carmine after a bunch of posts... And you ask Carmine about abilities. But that last part I quoted from you seemed to have written Carmine as not mafia already just some sort of killing party(one of the options written above)
Well next you tell Tam not to assume...hm there are a lot of parts to Tams post that could be labeled as an assumption. Some parts make it seem to me that
the reason for you being able to expect anything from nights or Carmine is that you and or Carmine (or some role in general) are connected in some way and someone doesnt know it. Or you have a deductive power to use in some way ....(not quite sure on the mechanics of that last one)

Well point is next you say Carmines response will make a difference
and then eventually Carmine responds(coming off of easter)
and then you say Carmine is cleared partially on your suspicion list....

But from all that I gather...I see no progress with any of that. So after all of that Carmine is still in the same place or near it (my opinon of what I gather from things quoted from Narninian and read from the thread) with you.
Does any one see why I felt the need to document this and ask Narninian about this?

I mean I have actually asked before but I haven't gotten a response for many of the things I have asked, though I have gotten many.

But that aside for now. That part of my post isn't to draw suspicion because I am not fos'ing Narninian or voting Narn. I just really feel the need to express that.

fos:

Popsiclestix because while looking back for these quotes to express my confusion/exasperation to Narninian I noticed again that you had asked a question about a SK's.
I did a double take on that because since I had been reading the posts previous to it I didn't see how a detailed question on SKs fit.
Yes we were talking about mechanics possibilites but in my opinion nothing that called for a question of that nature. So I guess I am fos'ing you because your post allows me to wonder if you are the sk needing to understand your role or mafia worrying about what the sk knows or a mafia traitor wondering about who knows(allows me to wonder wether or not that was your intent)

So so far do we have 2 roles sort of implying some sort of ability that allows the "finding" of information at the same time?
And nonny your last post...do you not think/wonder if Narninian may have done that with Narns. post on Carmine earlier? ( I am not sure on how you commented on the things Narn. said so I will check that again to see exactly).

[willows_weep]

Ok Narninian...
Ok. Not a cop but somehow can you be in a situation like that again? Your situation gives information by default so thats ok.
Ok so based on the information you had last night Carmine is innocent and unless there is any recruitment of the not very good kind your information clears Carmine...nay?

Are we allowed to have pics in our sigs?

[willows_weep]

Any thoughts on how to go about that?
We still have some hours in the day eastern time at least.
We don't know the specific time but technically....

[willows_weep]

Vote Count:

6 MikeHart ( PopsicleStix, FrogGurl, Narninian, Nonny, Carmine, Dragon Pheonix)

Not voting: (5) Fishbulb, Orbiting, willows_weep, MikeHart, Tam

With 11 players I believe we wait.

[willows_weep]

No.

[willows_weep]

Hm I remember that part of MLs post where the narrator goes to the dictionary.
I think its when Janet is about to get all "toucha toucha touch me"

Hm, I don't know about this...I would possibly figure firstly that magenta and riff raf were the evil with like other stuff to balance perhaps. But brad...
Mabe there isn't anything to base this on...like so far trans. folk have been town and earthling have been mafia.

What about that last scene... with brad and janet and the doctor outside of the house?
Perhaps its those people?

[willows_weep]

I know thats what I worried aboutwhen I said its a twelve player game.
Because 2 groups and recruiting and balancing abilities could be overwhelming if it was used right and probably just overwhelming without


I dont think it was a random sex thing Nonny...I see it more as frank was the character that allowed Janet to explore life outside of her rigid binary lines of right and wrong etc.


Ah tam I didnt see that the mod/ml pointed it out like that. Sorry.

Hm...what are my thoughts on that...ah ok
Thoughts:
Exact saying "transylvanian" mafia suggests that there are differences. And differences suggest that there would be more than one which allows the comparison.
Ok then.

Hm. 2 mafia groups.
We've only had 1 night kill.
Someone had said maybe they chickened out right?
Perhaps not. There is also strategy to consider, and if there are two groups perhaps they have rules for their roles.
Perhaps they didnt get their choice in.

Wait..if there are two mafias and recruiting..and if brad was recruited what would that make the basis of the mafia?
Thats what I am meaning by the part you're saying is wrong Tam.

What I mean by that sentence was (without thinking of recruitment) ...o

ohohohohh
Wait...Your sentence after the last thing you quoted from me Tam...

But then why would the group be called the Transylvanian Mafia? None of them are Trans.

Exactly!!! Transexual transylvania right?
Trans is like changing....You are at one point this one thing, and then you are another thing as well.
hm let me make another post

[willows_weep]

Transgender: The word transgender is an umbrella term used to refer to people who transcend the traditional concept of gender. Many feel as though they are neither a man nor a woman specifically, and many feel as though their biological sex (male, female, etc.) and their socialized gender (man, woman, etc.) don’t match up. Some opt to change/reassign their sex through hormones and/or surgery and some change their outward appearance, or gender expression, though clothing, hairstyles, mannerisms, etc. Many people who identify as transgender feel as though they are confined in a binary system (male-female, man-woman) that does not match who they feel themselves to be. If we look at gender as a continuum and not an “either/or” concept, we have a better idea of understanding this issue. (The International Foundation for Gender Education has more information at http://www.ifge.org/).

Transvestite: The term transvestite most often refers to males who dress in the clothing of women. The term drag usually refers to dressing in the clothing and styles of another gender for entertainment purposes.



Transsexual: Transsexual is often used to describe those individuals who use hormone therapy and/or surgery to alter their sex.

So thats about moving in and out of the binary system.
So then it would also make sense to be an earthling as a transylvanian!
But also allow for our recruiting ideas and or very interesting abilities and rules

no?

[willows_weep]

Oh I was just thinking of the possibilities presented by the word Trans in general
blah heh I suppose it doesnt really matter.
Its just thinking about possibilities based on word def. and such.

I think I will be quiet for a while and just...I dont know...I dont like being confusing.

[willows_weep]

The only way I would figure Popsiclestix would not be telling the truth is if he had information that Janet was not in the game, or that Janet would not speak up due to recruitment and changing of roles.
Sounds far fetched right? Yea but I think like that.

But other than that no I see no reason to lie.
Unless Popsiclestix is giving that information to plant the seed of townness.


Anyway when did you get that pm?
You said it was with your role? Is that meaning the role pm from the beginning of the game?

Oh well, it does suggest recruitment the :happened: part. Perhaps Janet :found: brad, or what about anyone else who found brad or came across a role able to recruit?

[willows_weep]

Hm you got that in the beginning of the game...
Wondering what happened t o brad..
hm yea that could hint to your character that recruiting is involved...
But does anyone remember Eddie?
Didnt they wonder what happened to him? Like his parents when he was off rocking and rolling and what not.

Hm why do you think columbia wouldnt be able to be persuaded fishbulb?

[willows_weep]

If that was his opening PM, then he couldn't have been recruited beforehand

Exactly my point when I asked Popsiclestix about when he recieved that part.

So with that point it is suggested that Brad and Janet were apart from the beginning. And by default not be suggesting that Brad was recruited, but Mafia since birth no?

There could still be recruiting possible but I don't know what kind would be possible in a game this small.
12 player game.
Usual mafia groups are 3.
Other numbers are 2, 2 and 2, 4, etc. But with everything over/under the 3 there are different ways to balance it out so neither side gets a huge advantage right?
I know recruiting variants can be like...everynight, every other night, perhaps only a set number of times, only certain roles, etc.
So recruiting in this game would need to have strict rules set for mafia.

Fishbulb:
Why not Eddie, Dr. Scott ?
The criminoligist is like the narrarator right? If so I thought ML is that role...hm.

Interesting...why Magenta and Riff Raff easily swayed? And the party goers? I would figure these people not swayed at all.
Well I suppose it depends on who you believe/think is doing the swaying and why. And actually ...swaying suggests option...though yea ML makes that so by default you still have no choice.

Narninian: Yup it is in the first song. When Brad is all blah'd about his friends getting married. He sings along with Janet and Magenta and Riff raff off their love and such and he proposes.
(Oh lol I just look back to see if there was anything else I needed to comment on and it seems nonny commented the same way/almost as I did just now! But of course I will leave this)

Nanook: Yeah, they were white. Er...you saw green the whole movie???

Thanks Tam!

[willows_weep]

I have been re reading this thread and checking different things out.The more I think about the unlikelihood of there being recruitment makes me feel suspicious of
this:

Anyone else thinks this might mean something? Especially considering the lack of deaths, we might have some sort of recruitment going on.

(Fishbulb said that, post 159 after mod put up an update) I understand that players must think of all the possibilities for a game, and of course bring it to discussion but this is what Mod wrote:

"Emotion". Mental agitation - an excited state of. It is also an irrational and powerful master. It is obvious as this night is past, it had gained control over some souls.

I have been sitting here really looking into and at this. And remembering the scene. And I come to the conclusion that its probably being used to explain that mafia didnt kill. Because mod uses the word

some

it would be truly wicked if a whole lot of players were taken up. Perhaps the mafia themselves have weaknesses. As in they were overtaken by emotion and could not perform.


Oh and Columbia was also into Eddie. She actually spoke out/up to Frank when Frank was annoyed at Eddies resurgence.

[willows_weep]

That line was me thinking in and around a thought. No worries really. Its just saying that the mod is in control of the aspects of the game.

Hm lets see then
Brad:
[li]
[*]Engaged to Janet
[*]Had relations of some sort with Frank
[*]Student/pupil/some sort of connection with Doctor in some point of his life(were they going to visit him? I think so but am foggy)
[*]First met riff raff at door, and like I mentioned earlier had some sort of conversation with Brad and the doc. about ethics around nixing Frank. I think they agreed. Met at church technically.
[*]Columbia kissed more often than others in the pool near end scene
[*]Met Magenta after riff raff, I think met as well in the church but wether or not you would identify both as magenta or not I am not sure.So its technical like riff raff
[*]Rocky?
[*]Party goers when brad asked them if they could do a certain dance
[*] Almost/did eat/drink? Eddie
[/li]
I didnt put frank in the church part because I didn't see him in those scenes.
Im not sure if Brad and Rocky ever exchanged words...
Not too much with columbia outside of the pool I think.

Hm I am going to think more about the end scene I was talking about and the scene the mod posted, and the scene after riff raff screams " he didn't like me, no body liked me!!" (something like that I believe)
(I wanted to hug riff then.)

[willows_weep]

Interesting take on the "too human "
part DP.

I was thinking it was more a moral/ethics thing. BTW This thinking is on the same lines of my last post. I don't think it would be a Janet character because she is human/earthling. Like I said before that

reason

doesn't sit well with this game. What would make this movie as a game fun if it were as simple as roleclaiming?
Thats what I love about real themes(based on known media) because it allows you to create assumptions and have crazy dialogue.

Also, Janet is different from Brad. Eventually her experiences within the castle allow her to see past binaries. She gets to this point way before Brad and actually stays there instead of fluctuating.


Ok, in my posts I am going to speak slowly in my mind as I write everything. Usually it's much faster, and coming from different directions(many thoughts at once).

[willows_weep]

...So you're not Janet...
Ok...if you're not Janet, and no one said anything about you sort of implying you were by omission of exact/whole truth then is Janet here at all?

The doctor? What do you do?

Great ...now I have a trust issue

[willows_weep]

Ohhhhh, ok that makes me feel better!!

The doctor not protown? hm?

Ick...doc out.

[willows_weep]

Vote Count:

3-Popsiclestix (Nonny, Tam, Dragon Phoenix)

Not voting ( 7):( Fishbulb, NanookTheWolf, Carmine, Willows, PopsicleStix, FrogGurl, Narninian)

10 players= 6 to lynch.

[willows_weep]

Sorry about the pouty there. Forgot to give spaces during certain times.

I don't understand why you have done all of this.
Mental state of agitation...were you made to claim at night?
I do agree with some of the questions other players are asking you.
Who/did did you protect?
Knowing if you even protected at all.
And if you did knowing if/that it worked.

...You claimed janet...then you claimed Doctor...why?
The only time I have ever seen something like this is in my last mini theme but there doesn't seem to be a reason for why for you.
I know my first question of this post refers to what I saw in that other game but I don't know any characters capable...

blah

Well I don't agree that the doctor would nesacarily be the

doctor

.
But I wouldn't know the explanation for Janet.

(Is there something called the mafia doctor?)

[willows_weep]

Vote Count:

4-Popsiclestix

(Nonny, Tam, Dragon Phoenix, FrogGurl)

Not voting ( 6) Fishbulb, NanookTheWolf, Carmine, Willows, PopsicleStix,Narninian)

10 players= 6 to lynch.

[willows_weep]

...You don't even remember?
You remember nothing of what you did last night, but you have the stuff from your first role pm?
And you still haven't answered the other questions.

I mean...night1 and night 2...that makes 2 pms doesn't it?
You said you couldn't find the pm singular.
You remember nothing...

Carmines post #230

[willows_weep]

No ML isn't on vacation.
Post #202 and other reasons.
Though I do usually do vote counts for players in games when they ask for it. Like I did recently in FDs game.

"For some reason I see you posting"
Well I would hope you do "see" me posting things I know I have posted.
"Recall reading about it"
I would hope not because that exact thing is no where to be found. Though you are of course free to "recollect""imagine" "etc" anything...as you probably know.

Popsiclestix...players are really really giving you every opportunity here!

[willows_weep]

Tam my thing is that no one has come up against him in claiming doctor.
If there were another doctor I don't suppose its any one of the people not voting him. Out of the 3 (now 4) people voting him many are asking who he protected , so I figure his whole claim of doc=janet-=popsiclestix is true no matter how screwed up this is seeming.

So what do you do if you believe the doctor has done some things that isn't good for the town?

[willows_weep]

[quote=Fishbulb]
he is even asking for the real doc to come out! If he was pro-town, he wouldn't want any one else outing themselves. T
[/quote]

Ah thats true, I didn't see it like that. And I do usually think that there is at least 1 or such docs.

Can you explain the mafia doctor to me?

Not even hint ? Yea that would make them a better target.

Well I am not finding any reasons to not vote anymore. Either way you are being really bad for the town.

[willows_weep]

Vote Count:

6-Popsiclestix

(Nonny, Tam, Dragon Phoenix, FrogGurl, Fishbulb, Narninian)

Not voting ( 4) NanookTheWolf, Carmine, Willows, PopsicleStix)

10 players= 6 to lynch.


That is the lynching vote.
I suggest we consider the thread locked till we hear from either ML or Jeep.

[willows_weep]

oOOoOo The lips in the game? Interesting...well that would explain how we could have 12 characters out of the show...

Hm does that mean...that if Nonny chose a player the other night that during the day the person they chose really has no free will via day voting?
Would that person have even known?
I am assuming protown because it says someone has killed them and it says "the horrible truth" so that would suggest that the town feels for the life of the lips in a positive way.
I haven't seen page 1 yet.
...Dude...how do you kill lips?

Well if the lips are in the game besides that have we exhausted all of the other characters ...etc, in the show?

[willows_weep]

I don't know why popsiclestix did that. If someone wanted outtie then I would hope they would just ask instead of sabatoge.

Do you suppose perhaps popsiclestix was under the influence of another role?

[willows_weep]

Hm, I now recall seeing someone claim doctor in a chat game. And they were counter claimed...this was pretty recently so yea I guess I have seen this twice now.

Ok then.
So where do we go from here

[willows_weep]

The lips are from the movie. Just it's that it does the singing in the beginning and the end and isn't nesacarily part of the script per se.

Hm, I don't recall any other thing besides the characters we've spoken about.
Brad, Janet, Scott, Riff Raff, Magenta, Columbia, Frank, Rocky.
Everyone else is the family/friends in the wedding, the lips, the party go ers.

[willows_weep]

Oh gosh, leave it to me to forget things...
Here:
Tim Curry .... Dr. Frank-N-Furter
Susan Sarandon .... Janet Weiss
Barry Bostwick .... Brad Majors
Richard O'Brien .... Riff Raff
Patricia Quinn .... Magenta
Nell Campbell .... Columbia (as Little Nell)
Jonathan Adams .... Dr. Everett Von Scott
Peter Hinwood .... Rocky Horror
Meat Loaf .... Eddie (as Meatloaf)
Charles Gray .... The Criminologist
Jeremy Newson .... Ralph Hapschatt
Hilary Labow .... Betty Munroe
Perry Bedden .... The Transylvanians
Christopher Biggins .... The Transylvanians
Gaye Brown .... The Transylvanians
Ishaq Bux .... The Transylvanians
Stephen Calcutt .... The Transylvanians
Hugh Cecil .... The Transylvanians
Imogen Claire .... The Transylvanians
Tony Cowan .... The Transylvanians
Sadie Corre .... The Transylvanians
Fran Fullenwider .... The Transylvanians
Lindsay Ingram .... The Transylvanians
Peggy Ledger .... The Transylvanians
Annabel Leventon .... The Transylvanians (as Annabelle Leventon)
Anthony Milner .... The Transylvanians
Pamela Obermeyer .... The Transylvanians
Tony Then .... The Transylvanians
Kimi Wong .... The Transylvanians
Henry Woolf .... The Transylvanians
rest of cast listed alphabetically
Gina Barrie .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
Gilda Cohen .... The Transylvanians (uncredited)
Rufus Collins .... The Transylvanians (uncredited)
Petra Leah .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
Frank Lester .... Wedding dad (uncredited)
John Marquand .... Father (uncredited)
Richard Nixon .... Himself (archive audio: resignation speech) (uncredited) (voice) (archive sound)
Koo Stark .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
(http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073629/fullcredits 05/09/04)<-citation

I see even more how we could get 12...

[willows_weep]

Oh gosh, leave it to me to forget things...
Here:
Tim Curry .... Dr. Frank-N-Furter
Susan Sarandon .... Janet Weiss
Barry Bostwick .... Brad Majors
Richard O'Brien .... Riff Raff
Patricia Quinn .... Magenta
Nell Campbell .... Columbia (as Little Nell)
Jonathan Adams .... Dr. Everett Von Scott
Peter Hinwood .... Rocky Horror
Meat Loaf .... Eddie (as Meatloaf)
Charles Gray .... The Criminologist
Jeremy Newson .... Ralph Hapschatt
Hilary Labow .... Betty Munroe
Perry Bedden .... The Transylvanians
Christopher Biggins .... The Transylvanians
Gaye Brown .... The Transylvanians
Ishaq Bux .... The Transylvanians
Stephen Calcutt .... The Transylvanians
Hugh Cecil .... The Transylvanians
Imogen Claire .... The Transylvanians
Tony Cowan .... The Transylvanians
Sadie Corre .... The Transylvanians
Fran Fullenwider .... The Transylvanians
Lindsay Ingram .... The Transylvanians
Peggy Ledger .... The Transylvanians
Annabel Leventon .... The Transylvanians (as Annabelle Leventon)
Anthony Milner .... The Transylvanians
Pamela Obermeyer .... The Transylvanians
Tony Then .... The Transylvanians
Kimi Wong .... The Transylvanians
Henry Woolf .... The Transylvanians
rest of cast listed alphabetically
Gina Barrie .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
Gilda Cohen .... The Transylvanians (uncredited)
Rufus Collins .... The Transylvanians (uncredited)
Petra Leah .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
Frank Lester .... Wedding dad (uncredited)
John Marquand .... Father (uncredited)
Richard Nixon .... Himself (archive audio: resignation speech) (uncredited) (voice) (archive sound)
Koo Stark .... Bridesmaid (uncredited)
(http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073629/fullcredits 05/09/04)<-citation

I see even more how we could get 12...

[willows_weep]

A curious night?
Another?
Hm I can read that 2 ways.(more probably but I don't think it's nesacary)

Your welcome carmine

[willows_weep]

A curious night?
Another?
Hm I can read that 2 ways.(more probably but I don't think it's nesacary)

Your welcome carmine

[willows_weep]

Oh I thought eventually you would elaborate more on your reasons for fishbulb or that.
Fishbulb did comment on it.
But yea I suppose no one is talking about it.
Can you give anything else for fishbulb?

[willows_weep]

Hm I think Narninian has posted somewhere that he was busy this past weekend and something about leaving school last week and such.

[willows_weep]

Going to

vote:fishbulb

[willows_weep]

Vote Count:

2 Tam-(Carmine, NanookTheWolf)
2 Fishbulb-( Dragon Pheonix, W_W)
1 Narninian-(FrogGurl)


9 players makes it 5 to lynch


EDIT: Unbolded by JEEP, it looked too much like an official vote count.

[willows_weep]

Mainly because I wanted to get responses.

Mikehart: What was the reason players voted him for? I think its for not being here. I don't think Mikehart even has 3 posts here, but I am not sure.

Popsiclestix: I don't think I am the only one who waited for ever for popsiclestix, and like I mentioned in the posts around that time, I didn't think he was evil just doing not too good things.
I think a lot of people knew or highly suspected his innocence which is why most people gave Popsiclestix a lot of time for explanation. I think I also mentioned in a post that I had just been in a game where a town claimed doc (Or at least in my head when trying to think) So speaking from experience I could understand that it was a real ,albeit not very good, possibility.

Actually trying to stay clean? I don't think that is a really good reason because as you say what you are saying I am thinking "well that would be all the reason to vote "
I mean actually even with mikehart. What was stopping scum from jumping on that? They would not have looked guilty at all to me because voting looks like a fad now a days.


The DP thing? I was asking for him to go on because I wanted him to go on. I don't really like relying on the experienced player tactics, lurker tactics, lynch liars tactics, usual behavior stuff because every game that has been played on this site since it came back up is open material for EVERYone to look at. So I keep an open mind as well as a sort of "player handbook" (a culmination of tactics/whatever you want to call it/etc players reference on/in games)

Without a comment? Simply because I wanted a response. By that time you hadn't said anything huge really, and I too see no reason to say anything of depth when you note no one is going along with it and DP noticed no one going along with it, so well in the end if no one went along with it ...I wouldn't have gotten a response.

Oh yup I saw your response to it, I just wanted more

And your response is voting me, and giving reasons/notes/the such. I respect that and acknowledge it with the stuff I posted here.


Ah sorry about the bolding Jeep. I could retire as helper outer if you want. Lol I will probably be on less soon anyway.

[willows_weep]

It was not "quick following of Dragon Phoenix".


But here are some things first:
Dr. Everett Scott: So you are not the doctor( because you have neither said you are nor does your summary of your "pm" imply it)( I say that only because I think someone was wondering if everett would have been the doc)

You are looking for Eddie: So that may mean Eddie is in the game.
(I will think later on that character)
But no one knows that. I say may because someone could claim Eddie later on to appear town. That is if you are not confirmed.I mean we wont know if Eddie is here or the alignment and ability unless the game ended and the mod gave a copy of the pms or that character died, or someone claims it and can be confirmed.

Now looking at that: Did you ask about what would happen if you found Eddie? Or does the "pm" exactly say "you dont know what will happen"(well not exactly ).
Or something else?

And with willows_weep's quick following of Dragon Phoenix, I am starting to believe we have the rest of the mafia here. They partnered too quickly, and with willows_weep's out-of-character quick vote, it just makes more sense

...It does?

Thats all for now.

[willows_weep]

I did give a reason no?
I wanted a response. I didn't want a claim but thats what I ended up with and it gave me enough information to comment the way I did.

Sure it's possible Fishbulb is Scott. I don't think he is not Dr. Everett Scott. And I doubt anyone can counterclaim that. It's just that what I know so far I can conclude that Fishbulb is not pro-town.
The claim actually helped my suspicions more because of who he is. And with thinking of different plots/special areas in the show and what has been in the thread so far I have narrowed down to 2 possible scummies (Aside from Fishbulb). This makes me so happy...or rather I am so happy because of it.

I needed more information which is why I wanted DP to explain further because DPs post was interesting. So when that didn't help too much I decided to take action into my own hands. Hence the vote. And now look at the thread. Is that not progress?

[willows_weep]

Based on personal deductions and things from mod and players and things that have happened.
And it does work. I would not have expected this set up and I don't see why it would be but when I asked Popsiclestix to distinguish whether it was a night thing or a initial pm thing tells me that brad started out as mafia.
Now that I am concluding that Fishbulb is mafia. That would make it brad and scott.
And janet is excused. And that gives me two other possible tags for mafia. And one is more likely than the other, but I wont rule it out.


So just to put these out there:
I am throwing out the parts where mafia would be just trans or just not trans.
That would make it supposedly one group.
Ruling out possibility of two anti town groups.
Thinking about what characters are stronger than the others.
Which plays what kind of role and is it passive or aggressive.

That is a bit of the summary for what/how I am thinking.


btw this post would have been before fishbulbs last post but the site kept going to error. Oh and I just note Carmens post.

Wait...what? Why would you find columbia? Im thinking if a player is looking for a specific character then they would just hop around till then, but while looking for Eddie you're thinking you....hm well you are just speculating but....
Hm I will add more thoughts to that later...

Oh for scummies its characters not players. So I am meaning "aside from fishbulb/scott).
And for characters Im thinking riff raff and magenta.
Somewhere in these threads we/i... was talking about the end morality scene.

[willows_weep]

I am doing lots of things at once. Which I suppose is the cause of confusion, but honestly I cannot not settle down...well actually I will go make a thread about that so when Im in themed games I can be more focused on one thing at a time.

This is what that post does btw:
Thinking outloud while pointing out things that I need to think about, and noting things I am certain of.

The somesuch you just gave isn't how I would have thought it worked.
My experience with roles that are searching did not include getting suches like that.
Pretty much " You have not yet found so and so"
I figure saying anything else would lead to being able to get information about other characters by default. Interesting though...the mason thing.

No not that there ARE two others. Just that those two characters based on how things look would be prime suspects (my thinking). There could be less or more naturally.

Im throwing out there being an all human and all non human sort of thing. How would it work if there were both? I know the numbers don't have to be the same each side but...I am not seeing how that would work based on characterizations of the characters.

Any thoughts on Rocky?

[willows_weep]

First off I believe that either the game doctor targetted Fishbulb last night and/or Fishbulb has some sort of night protection/immunity.
Why?
Because I can choose to kill someone. I chose Fishbulb last night because :
-The manner of how Fishbulb posts (Vibacious!) (Create new word) ( Done!)
-Keeps reiterating me, just in a different way (sometimes) (Am I just being petty?) (Nah)
-Note1-Post is pretty much a summary of what I have said through the game.(Still not)
-Is nice seeming though-Perhaps personality quality or cover up.(Or both??)
-Reminds me of newbie game (that was bothersome)
-Never answered my question of mafia doc (?) (Is that important to me as vig or not and why)
-Is this reason enough to use power? ( Hells yeah!)

Since I knew that there were a couple of possibilities as to why I could not kill Fishbulb I went and sought more information.
So that is now the full reason for why I asked DP about his reasoning. And why I needed more information.
When I got more information I ruled out a lot of the possibilities I could come up with and was left with doctor or possible godfather (ask someone about variants)(don't forget!)


Processes:
-Janet is dead and town
-Brad is dead and anti-town
-Eddie may be out there
-Scott may be out there
-Lips...is dead and town
Can't be a human only mafia, can't be a trans only mafia. (Do you know of any other human roles?) Recruiting does not fit anywhere either.
(What is up with mod wording?)( Consider full cast list perhaps?) (What is the point of this game?)( What is the point of the movie as well?)

Thread issues:
-DP has issues with Fishbulb right after night ( Coincidence?) ( Who is DP)( Who is FrogGurl)
-DP believes strongly (Interesting...)
-Fishbulb says we're both mafia (That would be saying we are a mafia tag team. One following directly after the other.) ( I can understand not giving me the benifit of doubt there but why would Fishbulb accuse DP of doing something that even I think is not a bright thing to do?) (Ou est l'amour?)
-Brings the usual obvious mafia tactics up ( blah)
-FrogGurl (Interesting)
-Fishbulb brings up "style" issues etc (looking for footholds-back to tagteam) (grrrr next person...)
-After saying we're both mafia unvotes one to vote the other (que)
-Other players (La ou sont ils?)
-AHHH everyone is confused (Go write poetry to speak of the pain, la agonie!)
-Remember to refresh page a lot when you're taking forever with a post. You tend to miss posts c'est genant...


Points
Fishbulb gave claim- Does not mention role ability to be automatically saved. Rules out protected town role.
-Is Scott but is not a game doctor. So could have been targetted by doctor. (Why would doctor target fishbulb?)
-Somewhere Fishbulb said didnt think Scott was a doctor traditional sense so not doc here. Also asked who was the doc.
-Think back about the morality issue we brought up earlier. Brad is mafia. Not recruited. If conclusion is right then Scott is mafia. Not recruited.
-Recruiting idea tossed out awhile ago. Idea fostered by Fishbulb?(Find out when and who is still interested)
-Who would work with Scott and Brad? (Find what characters would be linked to both and why. Test out morals)
-Why
-Figure out mod wording
-What is this WIN condition with Eddie-If a role has a win condition that is not with the town then is it not the best interest of the town to remove said role?
-What is this "speculation" with Columbia. Why would she help Scott in anyway? (Check out scenes with the two, does it suggest the possibility ?)
-There is nothing in the movie to suggest Scotts innocence. (Definately check out that scene and posts where you talk about scenes.)

So that is pretty much almost exactly what I have down since last "night" and from "today" for this. Copied and pasted not in the order because Fishbulb isn't the only topic.
And that is how/why/what Im basing everything on.
I agree that at first it seems shakey evidence but thats why I went for getting information. There was no way to get such information if I did not vote.
Thats why discussion is cool if your thinking and feeling stuff.

[willows_weep]

Uhm, Well as I see it by looking through the thread and remembering rules ...
Fishbulb has 3 votes one each from Dragon Phoenix, W_W, and Tam
Dragon Phoenix has 1 from Fishbulb
And willows_weep has 1 from Carmine
I think and so since there is still 9 Im supposing its still 5 to lynch because the mod didn't say or do different last time of offical majority number display.

[willows_weep]

Oh those are conditionals. And since that's like raw notes mostly then since I already know its based on a condition I forgot that you all might forget.

Why would you vote me?

Yes I am.

Hey...where did you get the lots of stuff quote from?

...I thought it would be easier if I just gave all my reasons to the town ...not harder...at least its better arranged than usual right ??

[willows_weep]

Can I post?
I really want to post...according to Jeeps count I can post...