Stargate SG-1 Mafia- Game OVER! BUT WHO WON!?

[RafK]

Ancalagon, who are you on MTGSalv? I doubt you got that opinion from the little you could have seen fo me here!

testing something

vote Primate

[RafK]

13 to lynch. May I remind you that votes for offworld players will not be counted, as you can't lynch someone who's not there.

Just checking.

Eyes on pollux, xyzzy and johhan for starting in with the blatant bandwagonning so early.

[RafK]

Coppelia: I was just seeing if there was more than meets the eye with the absent players more than anything else. I've played in/read too many games in the last couple of years with... unusual... voting. Voting for the mod. Players not listed in the official players list. Players voting through the mod. Etc.

Which reminds me,

vote ChannelDeliBird

.

Not really sure why you'd think the absent players are more or less likely to be scum. We know now that they're not involved until CDB says they are, and the circumstances will give us an idea of how that plays out.

[RafK]

vote johhan

for being extremely defensive about an obvious bandwagonning vote, trying to downplay it, and for attacking someone merely for asking for reasons.


I wouldn't get carried away assuming the incoming players are going to be 4/2 town/scum. Pure speculation. It's not unlikely- I'd expect about 2 out of 6 players to be scum or neutral in this game anyway- but it is pure speculation.

[RafK]

unvote; Vote:johhan

Let's bandwagon johhan for bandwaggoning!

Ok

unvote; Vote: Johhan

To be making these kind of jokes at post 78 isn't really helpful to the town. The whole point of early game voting is to apply pressure to players and see what happens....maybe scum will out themselves, and maybe a townie will start looking around for better scum targets. Do you really have no one more likely in mind than yourself?

unvote random vote:pancake mix

.

Please explain to me how announcing a random vote (with plenty of "real" votes flying around) works with the above philosophy?

Vote: Lowell

Didn't like his reasoning for the vote and coaching above.

Nor I, but that reasoning against Lowell to some extent assumes he's trying to coach a newbie scum and take the pressure off him, which relies upon johhan being scum, so I prefer to continue against johhan and get his claim before making any further judgments on this.

Makes for the base of a bandwagon on Lowell if johhan does indeed come up scum, though.

[RafK]

He coaches Johhan, defends newbies (and considering the make-up and state of the game, it's not a reach to make this specific to Johhan) and pushes attention off him all in the same fell swoop. For someone who just committed a cardinal sin of mafia (self-voting), that's a strange reaction. Like, "inside information" strange. Be it newbie town or newbie scum I get the impression Lowell knows something concrete about Johhan. And the simplest answer for that is because Lowell is scum.

That's not a terrible argument, I'll give you that, although my experience is that there's often someone willing to defend a newbie for being a newbie.

I think I'd like to see the vote count before going further.

[RafK]

Apparently my vote wasn't picked up in the last vote count, so

vote Johhan

. I think he's scummy, and if he isn't then at least we've got information due to some people defending him and some people attakcing him and some people just bandwagonning. DYH's suspicion of Lowell is interesting, and Albert's posts do not fill me with joy, but one thing at a time.

[RafK]

I'd like to see johhan name-claim as well. In a theme game the ability to break the game and ID the mafia through a mass name-claim is always something that mods design to avoid. Be interesting to be able to see if the scum have safe claims provided, or if they claim random flunkies, or whatever. johhan's claiming like someone trying to avoid giving their real role (e.g. scum), and if he continues to not give his name then just hammer and be done with it, but the type of name he claims could come in handy.

In other news, I will be away until the 24th. I expect most of that time is going to end up being night anyway.

[RafK]

EBWODP: I see he's been hammered already. :/

[RafK]

Glad to have woken up alive, and welcome to the new players. Please do not hesitate to get involved

Glad to see that the johhan push was correct. My day 1 strike rate as town continues to be awesome. Unfortunately, historically my strike rate isn't so hot after day 1, but let's push on.


My notes based on day 1:

Pollux, xyzzy- still a little suspicious for the same reason as johhan (blatant bandwagonning of DYH). Xyzzy's post 99 jumping onto the johhan wagon could easily be bussing. Pollux's 125 even more so.

BM- very very likely town, hopped on johhan early and didn't really get distracted from it. Post 197 right on the money too. In fact, BM is probably my number 1 townie bet.

pancakemix- likely town (kept the focus on pollux-x-johhan group early and got an OMGUS vote from johhan for it).

elias the thief- suspicious for trying to kill the johhan bandwagon before it starts (post 61), and (73) might be distancing. Later tried to get an Albert wagon going, but it seems like he sincerely disagreed with him and then came to understand Albert's viewpoint (by post 203).

Albert B Rampage- Strong town read based on early strong push on johhan and cutting through the crap attempt by certain persons to derail the johhan wagon in favour of DYH. While he then turned on Lowell, he insisted that lowell AND johhan were scum, and ultimately came back to johhan. Probably my number 2 town read.

theopor- suspicious for trying to wagon Dean Winchester out of nowhere once johhan was up to 5 or 6 votes. Now, Lowell went along with it, and Lowell is known town- proof positive that townies can be wrong and screw up. However, I really didn't like theopor's post 85. It seems really newbie scum trying to manufacture cases against people. Of course, Lowell agreed with THAT post too for some reason. Post 131 still trying to defend johhan. Posts 133, 135 still trying to get a Dean Winchester wagon going (almost a point in his favour actually, since this didn't look like a diversion from johhan that was likely to fly by this point). Gets on johhan at post 208 by which time johhan has 10 votes and made a ridiculous sucks-to-you claim so the end was nigh.

DYH- This is a tough call, as Lowell really was a bit suspicious. Also, johhan (who did not seem to be sophisticated) blatantly bandwagonned DYH. I am keeping my eye on DYH, but I feel at least for now that johhan bandwagonning him like that is a strong indication that DYH is not mafia.

Coppelia- Uneasy. Felt that Coppelia's 83 was coaching johhan even more than Lowell was. Also felt there was a fair bit of setup fishing going on from Coppelia, which admittedly isn't a sign of anything much necessarily. Did however defend the johhan wagon against SV's questioning, which is townieish.

PBuG- Autosuspicion for going along with the theopor/Lowell attack on DYH on the flimsiest of reasons, or lack thereof. Late jump onto the johhan wagon. Then taking part in the Albert wagon. But did get back onto the johhan wagon pretty quick. Hmm.

Rosso Carne- shows up on page 4 to vote Dean Winchester out of nowhere, then disappears again. What?

Dean Winchester- decisively town

Occult- no read, didn't get much decisive out of his posts

SV- I think some of SV's 116 looks good for SV (we have the benefit of hindsight here: why would a scum then not want to tie Lowell to johhan?) and I'm not overly concerned about the rest of SV's stuff. Not putting a strong townie read on SV, but not my first choice as scum certainly

superstring- finally gets into the game late and tries to start something on Albert. Not good.

Ancalagon- was suspicious of Pollux. OK. Not really getting involved in the major issues of the day, less OK. His view of Pollux's posts is exactly the same as mine, but the timing is off to be calling him the "most suspicious". Agree with his post 199 too, but refraining from calling him strongly town because he didn't really get involved with bandwagons at all.

metatron- very suspicious, tries hard to denigrate the johhan wagon and promote a wagon on Albert. Tries to oppose a claim when johhan is at 9 votes (post 202). Still trying to give johhan the benefit of the doubt in 213. fishes for double voter (seizing on Dean Winchester's comment that there might be one), AND tries to plant the seed that a double-voter will be scum (post 224). post 230 reads strongly like a scum recognishing the day is lost and trying to reposition himself as being anti-johhan after all.

erg0- don't like erg0 either. The attacks on Albert feel very, very much like a last ditch attempt to get an alternative up to johhan. Because this case is RIDICULOUS. Lynching someone for their theory ideas wheen there's a perfectly solid wagon going on FFS. erg0 also seems interested in fishing for a double-voter. then drops the hammer when the town is trying to have some final discussion. Hmph.

[RafK]

OK, as can be seen from the above:


1. We have some lurkers who will need to be prodded shortly (e.g. Rosso), or whom participated so little as to not rate a mention despite posting (e.g. VanDamien).

2. metatron is scum.

vote metatron

.

Good day.

[RafK]

I said, in the begining, that I was unsure of the case against Johhan. I asked for someone to point it out to me, but instead, I saw the bandwagon progress at a rate that I thought was insanly quick. So yes, I defended him in order to make sure you didn't screw up without putting any thought to it.

It really doesn't appear that way from reading your posts. You do ask once for a summary of the case, but you also then give your opinion that he was being scapegoated (which is inconsistent with having no idea at all of the case- if you had no idea of the case, you couldn't have an opinion on it), and then you started to try and have it both ways, saying you were "suspicious" of johhan while also trying to buy time for him to dig himself out of it or for the votes to go over to the Albert wagon instead. Trying to have it both ways, in my experience, is a very good scum tell if you spot it.

[RafK]

yo rafk, dont be a jerk like that.

Nice to see you're still with us. Some content would be an excellent next step.

[RafK]

Agreed with SV regarding the new arrivals and happy to see it's backed by what now a ranger said about his PM. The mod isn't going to change the game to screw with the success or otherwise of either side. Frankly, that would be pretty much a blacklistable offence... the only excuse for a mod changing a game like that is if someone got screwed over by a mod error and the mod was trying to make up for it. Even then it'd have to be done carefully.

A newcomer may very well be scum, of course, but not for the reason BM was suggesting.

[RafK]

I do understand why you feel I'm scummy. Tell me this, though. If It turned out Johhan was innocent, would my actions be scummy?

No. If johhan was innocent we wouldn't be having this conversation. But johhan was NOT innocent.

I don't think I would be looked at as such if it wasn't for the fact that Johhan was turned out to be scum after all, something which I had no way of knowing.

You would know if you are scum. That is kind of the entire point.

[RafK]

As I like to say from time to time, your play (if not challenged) was too helpful for a scum player to not belong to a scum player. The advantage mafia get of having it both ways (if not challenged) is that they can defend a scum player while the wagon is on, then claim to have been against the scum player all along- exactly as you are doing here. The problem for you is that it has been spotted early, while your posts are still fresh.

Is it POSSIBLE that you're townie and managed to do all that by sheer coincidence?

Sure, anything's possible. I just don't think it's very likely.

Pollux was on my suspicion list too, of course, and there seems to be equally as much support for a Pollux wagon as a metatron wagon... I'm having a hard time deciding what I think of Pollux's replies in the thread so far. Can't say I'm unhappy with either of them being pushed to claim.

[RafK]

When I get time, I'll post a case on metatron, if someone else hasn't done it already. There's a substansialish one there.

Me:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 358#610358
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 359#610359

Occult:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 556#610556

Feel free to add.

I like the point VanDamien picked up about Pollux, though. Hey Pollux, why'd you say you didn't want to "screw up

too

"?

[RafK]

That was a vote. The case was in the other part.

[RafK]

Much as I dislike cop claims that come with sanity speculations (because, once again, it's way too good a deal for a scum to have the protection of the cop claim without the accountability of giving accurate results), without a counterclaim or other evidence there's no need for this wagon to go further.

Incidentally, if there is another cop out there, I'd advise against counterclaiming immediately. There'll be plenty of time for you to come out later when you have other results worth revealing, and even if you get killed we'll still know that there was another cop.

unvote

In the meantime, I don't buy Pollux's explanation at all. If he was talking about his own previous screw-ups, he'd have said "i dont want to screw up again". "screw up too" means he's talking about someone else screwing up. Therefore he's making up his explanation of the comment, therefore h's lying, therefore scum.

Not voting only due to how close he is to being hammered.

Claim, Pollux.

[RafK]

As is usual for a theme game of this sort with clearly "good" and clearly "scum" roles, I would be shocked if the scum haven't got fake claims provided (this is why I wanted to make johhan name claim before he was hammered, just to see what he had).

Also- you were trying to lay low by defending a major bandwagon target and getting involved in the double-vote speculation? Really?

I wish my gut would stop telling me that your story is totally fake, its very inconvenient. Hopefully you can show up with something concrete in the next few days and prove yourself.

In the meantime, Pollux needs to talk.

[RafK]

Also- you were trying to lay low by defending a major bandwagon target and getting involved in the double-vote speculation? Really?

Which major bandwagon target was i defending? i was just trying to do what your doing now with me, not defending, oh no, just waiting for information before i make my choice.

That was directed to metatron, not to you, in response to his own comment that he was trying to law low.

FWIW, I had Battle Mage at the top of my townie list after day 1. I don't agree with everything he says, but it's almost impossible for me to buy that he was scum with johhan. So you being anti-BM is not a good point for you in my book. Obviously your claim is not especially strong either. I'm comfortable with your lynch at this point.

Anyone want to oppose that?

Before anyone hammers, though, I'd like to leave some time for various people to get involved. There's several players who, approaching the end of day 2, are in total lurking mode. This needs to stop.

[RafK]

vote Pollux

to maintain the pressure. The people unvoting do not satisfy me

For example, that rather nice slip he made about not wanting to screw up "too" and the rather terrible explanation he gave of it? Addressing that at all, are we?

BM- not all scum are silly enough to go all OMGUS on the people bandwagonning them. In fact, the fact that Pollux has changed style and become conservative with his voting after being called out isn't a positive sign to me... suggests he knows he was acting scummy and is currently trying to be nice while the pressure's on.

[RafK]

Speculation over what can and can't be a safe-claim and what roles MUST be in the game are kind of pointless. Mods will intentionally screw with you on that. All I'm saying is that few if any names are completely completely safe. Don't rely on flavour... I don't think Pollux's claim is bad because Walter should be a more powerful role or whatever, I just think it's very much a potential "safe" name provided by the mod, take that away and he's a suspicious person claiming vanilla townie. They ALL claim vanilla townie.

As far as johhan not using a safe claim, I don't want to give the scum ideas. Suffice to say that there's very good reasons why he shouldn't have in his position (or he could have just been hammered before he thought to).

[RafK]

Scum or not, that wagon was WAY too fast. It's a proven fact that scum like shorter days because it gives them less of a chance to screw something up.

Interesting. What do you think of erg0's hammer on johhan yesterday?

[RafK]

xyzzy: doubt it. Townies who can clear another townie completely are semi-masons, and actually have the most powerful bit of the mason role (the talking isn't actually very powerful unless the masons also have other abilities). If every townie could clear someone, the game would be breakable very very fast.

[RafK]

At least Tony has delurked and given opinions; if I wanted to lurker lynch at this point, there's people who haven't even bothered to de-lurk. If Tony slips back into his previous non-helpful posting, then there's a good sign against him, but he's not the best target for now.

I'm still pretty set on lynching Pollux, once we've woken up a few more lurkers.

My list of people who haven't posted in a while:

Coppelia

(one post at the very start of the day, nothing since, although was active on day 1)

pancakemix

(two posts for the entire game, no posts in 3 weeks)

Rosso Carne

(three posts for the entire game, only one with any content)

Primate

(a bit harsh to put on this list, but yet to post content after entering into the game today and I want to hear from him)

I want to hear from all those people before ending the day.

[RafK]

Actually, I would like to request a

Mod: Please prod pancakemix

to go with that, three weeks I think justifies a prod.

[RafK]

No more fishing for more role info or identity of Janet Fraisier kthx.

[RafK]

Albert, xyzzy said that he has role-based info that Janet is innocent, so it's not a fake claim unless xyzzy is a lying scumbag, which at this point I really really doubt.

---

Good, now that that topic is cordoned off, two things:

1) Anyone planning to present a serious alternative wagon to Pollux while we wait?

2) Otherwise waiting for Coppelia/Primate/Rosso/pancakemix's replacement.

[RafK]

i got a prod. dont know why.

rafk, when theres this little content in a game, dont make shit up to attack.

You can't complain about there being little content when you've added none yourself. I had everyone prodded who hadn't offered an opinion on the lynch. It's a truism that lurking is bad for the town.

[RafK]

If we haven't replaced Coppelia yet for being away since the 26th, I doubt CDb wants to replace you for a mere four day absence. You never know, though.

The complete absence of stuff I think might well stem from either:

a) Pollux is scum and the mafia areavoiding hammering him;

b) Pollux is town and the mafia are staying out of the way so they can jump out tomorrow and blast whoever does hammer.

Unfortunately, trying to pick the more likely option is kind of impossible

[RafK]

...and let's not forget Pollux, who still has the most actual, y'know, votes...

^^^^

[RafK]

Rosso was definitely stirring. I think elias has a point as to whether the stirring was scummy or not.

Albert has an innocent investigation on him, it's way, way too early to be speculating about godfathers and there's no reason YET to dispute that metatron is a cop. This attempt to throw suspicion on the most confirmed person here (and a person who's actions towards the johhan wagon were very townie) seems to me to be the cavalry arriving to save Pollux.

[RafK]

Massive, massive reversal of opinion on Albert, and giant scum tells from Occult and TrustGossip (and Pollux goes along with it too, what a shock).

Blahgo is dead, and a known mason. Tony claims mason with him. Unless somebody counterclaims, that is IRONCLAD. Pressuring him for his claim and actively pushing for more votes on him was INSANE, and everyone who just did that is hugely suspect.

Now lynch Pollux FFS.

[RafK]

Now lynch Pollux FFS.

We should wait a few days for a counter-claim.

Where was this attitude a page ago?

It's the correct attitude for now, though. Wait a few days in case a counterclaim comes along after all. Then lynch Pollux.

I don't agree with your forcing earlier, though. Reading the thread earlier, the way you pressed I assumed you were going to counterclaim him (as someone else has mentioned). Then, when put it it, you had no reason at all to do it. "Flavor is good information"? Yes- for the scum.

TrustGossip: The mod has told us that blahgo was a mason. Without extreme bastard modding, there is someone in the game who is mason to blahgo. If no-one counterclaims Tony, Tony's claim is ironclad as far as I'm concerned.

[RafK]

Pollux, I'm not sure I follow, how would someone not believing you're scum translate to them being a mason? They'd only have information on you if you were also a mason (which you're obviously not).

^^^

I can't understand what the hell Pollux is trying to say.

[RafK]

No, I know that, that's why I have no idea why he thinks that someone defending him must be blahgo's mason.

[RafK]

I think he's gone into "given up/hope it all goes away if I do nothing" mode, personally.

[RafK]

Regardless of CDB notifying us that he would be away a couple of days, the last week has just been a stall waiting for CDB to show up with vote count/replacement news, so I wouldn't be too harsh on activity. Apart from a couple of people who are being/have been replaced, activity was pretty good up to that point.

[RafK]

Tony's unofficial vote count says I haven't voted yet either, so I'll do the honours in case.

unvote, vote Pollux

[RafK]

We're at night now. I prefer not to talk.

night!?
did Pollux get lynched?
and if so, WHY?

A restless town who had no other ideas, motivated by scum on the sidelines.

I feel ill.

This sounds like someone who has pre-knowledge of the result and is trying to get on a high horse (obviously if Pollux comes up scum, as I hope he does, this will be wrong. But your post gives me a VERY bad feeling).

[RafK]

I would bet on Occult having been a vig; he was definitely suspicious. At least my day 1 read on Albert held up. Other than that, I think I need to re-read a bit. Day 2 didn't go so well as day 1, and that incredibly long drawn out lynch and twilight means I haven't really been thinking about this game in like a month or more.

So once I've had the opportunity to re-read 100 pages of Kingmaker, I'll re-read here and see where to go

[RafK]

I think it's a little early for "lynch the new entrants" metagaming.

[RafK]

I don't know why I'm sticking my oar in in favour of theopor, but anyway.

There seems to have been a misunderstanding here. theo seems to have been suggesting that there's probably going to be a scum or two among the "late" people, so we have good odds of hitting a scum by going after one of them. metatron seems to think theo said all the late people are scum or something, which isn't right.

If we get to the point with one or two more dead scum from the original players, and all the "late" people are in, it probably would be worth metagaming that we're more likely to find scum among the late people. But as I said earlier, it's definitely too early for that idea.

[RafK]

Collective prodding isn't too bad an idea. We had two long pauses in the game- the wait for a vote count before Pollux was hammered, and then the extended twilight- and a lot of people probably stopped checking the thread regularly.

[RafK]

Much as I enjoy watching people bandwagon like this...

1) Would have thought the fact that I STARTED the johhan wagon would count for something. DYH fails to mention this.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 138#598138
(indeed, I also did the post which prompted johhan into being over-defensive: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 103#597103)

2) I was trying to explain why we should withhold hammering until johhan gave us a nameclaim. While this also exposes to the scum why scum-johhan shouldn't nameclaim, I donn't have a high opinion of johhan as scum. There was a possibility (if he didn't get hammered immediately) that he might be persuaded to name claim to try and prove he wasn't scum.

3) My post at the very start of day 2 said I had no read on Occult. This is true. It is complete crap that Occult spent all day 1 trying to slow the johhan wagon down. Occult had an entire 8 posts on day 1, several of which said nothing.

[quote="Occult]Yea, I really dislike johhan's post in 106, I had wanted to give him the benifit of doubt (For being new) but that post makes it hard to do so.

Before we start piling more votes on him (He's only at 6 so it isn't much of a worry now) we need to get more information out of the situation.

If we were to lynch him right this second we'll have very little to go on tommarow. That's why I'll keep my vote on noone for now.[/quote]

johhan is the most obvious mafia I've seen in my short time playing, though I don't believe we should lynch just yet.

That's not exactly a great way to convince people not to lynch johhan. I had no beef with wanting to get more information before someone quickhammered, so that didn't set off any alarm bells.

However, because he only came along late in the wagon and because he got involved in the "double voter" fishing with metatron late in the day, I wasn't willing to class him as town just because he attacked johhan. As such, I had no read on him. There just wasn't much in his 8 posts on day 1.

Attacking me for not attacking Occult is disingenous. I had no particular reason to consider Occult scum at this point- and nor did many other people, since it's not like there was a wave of people attacking Occult. Why single me out?

Of course, when Occult was part of the group that tried to ram through suspicion on Tony after Tony's mason claim....

Massive, massive reversal of opinion on Albert, and giant scum tells from Occult and TrustGossip (and Pollux goes along with it too, what a shock).

(As an aside, in hindsight Pollux was just easily influenced (explaining his rampant bandwagonning), which is something to remember for future games with him).

[RafK]

With that out of the way.

At the risk of being accused of an OMGUS vote, DYH's "case" on me is very suspicious.

Who actually spent day 1 trying to get an alternative to the johhan wagon going? DYH. He was trying to wagon Lowell instead (known townie).

Who attacked metatron and Pollux along with me and along with Occult? DYH.

Okay, so I've caught up, and frankly I'm okay with either Pollux or Metatron claiming. Metatron is playing WIFOM games with his defense of johhan, and Pollux is trying to play dumb.

I'm in agreement with erg0; I'd prefer to get a bit more from Pollux, especially the "screw up, too" comment, so I'm going to place my vote there.

Vote: Pollux

DYH stuck with the Pollux wagon throughout day 2, just like me! So why is he using this as evidence of me being scum?


Then there's the misleading thing of attacking me for having no read on Occult after day 1. And acting as if I should have known Occult was scum back then, despite the fact that no-one else was attacking Occult either at that time. Occult drew serious suspicion for his attack on Tony, for which I was also suspicious of him.

DYH is stretching too much here and leaving too much out of his analysis (such as my part in the johhan lynch, or the fact that my "no read" comment on Occult was my first post of day 1). I have much experience with DYH. He's too good an analyst when town to do such a bad job by accident. This was on purpose. I was willing to give him a pass for the argument against Lowell, but combined with this? No.

vote DYH

, and

FOS TrustGossip

for the attack on Tony and the twilight post from his high horse trying to make himself look good by sticking up for Pollux- seems very much like someone certain that Pollux is going to come up town, which likely means a scum since metatron is our cop (no doubts about him now due to Occult being so hot to make him claim).

[RafK]

unvote DYH

I can buy that that was a "trap", although I'm not sure why you'd end it this early when you could have stayed quiet a few more hours to see what happened.

[RafK]

DYH, I'm not comfortable with my unvote being used as your defence. I said I can believe that, not that it's ironclad. And I would like to know why you didn't let the trap play out a little longer, see who changed their mind after my rebuttal and see who tried to keep the thing alive. Particularly if you're confirmable (as you say you are), you shouldn't have been that worried about me making a case on you in return.

Would have thought you'd expect the counter from me, too. Part of my defence was necessarily that your case was crap. You of all people making a crap case was suspicious, and of course I was going to point that out.

I'm not willing to vote you at this stage. Part of it is you've claimed to have a confirmable role, which is something you can be held to later anyway. Part of it is that you're not the sort to be scared off that quickly as scum when your attack is blown. But there's enough wrong here not to give you a free pass, either.

[RafK]

This game has kind of dropped off, and I'm still really undecided about whether I want to do anything about DYH or either of the people his "trap" "caught". I probably need to go back and look at my analysis at the start of day 2, updated for stuff like metatron being cop and Occult being scum.

[RafK]

This is looking really really dead, sadly. And it started so well!

[RafK]

Tony is apparently still in the game (not replaced, at any rate). He's one of the most confirmed townies we have from my memory, between his claim and Occult's behaviour towards him.

[RafK]

Need to find time to get back into this one, but I am still here.