Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[DrippingGoofball]

Zaie! I didn't think of that, but that's true... a cop, a message sender with a truth-verifying ability, but not a famous cat???? In "Famous Cats" mafia????

Too much flying pumpkin gives me indigestion. I much prefer the Fancy Feast Seafood Platter in Gravy.

vote: Glork

and feelin' purty good about it.

[Miztef]

I think I'm going to have to agree with the recent news. Glork's role seems ridiculous (even in this game) and he is a really good player, which leads me to believe it is possible for him to manipulate his role claim (I believe it is possible he is the message sender, but cop and lie detector also?!).

However, there is still the possibility of him being truthful, and it is not a low enough possibility for me to be happy with lynching him. I still like my vote on theo for now, even though the evidence against him is much lighter. I am very close to switching to Glork, and will put a

HoS: Glork

out there

[Glork]

I'm not a Lie Detector. I know why Skruffs said that I am one -- I told him in the message that I'd know if he were lying -- but my purpose in saying that was specifically to give my targets less incentive to lie in their responses. Like I said, as long as I ask a question regarding their character/alignment, I get to know whether they are scum or not.

I don't see why Message-Sender/Cop is such an unlikely possibility. It makes

perfect

sense that a player could investigate by passing messages and reading responses. And if you think about it, all it does is make me a

weaker

cop because my target will

KNOW

that I have investigated them.

DGB, you're not trying to turn the tables after Covert Ops, are you?


Also, there's a reason that I pointed out the scums' win condition as cited in the initial post. It says that the scums' win condition is to eliminate all "actual famous" cats. The reason that I pointed this out in Post 34 was not only to get discussion going, but also to hint to my own nature.
By the way, my name is Fred. *shrug*

Mod: Vote Count?

Vote Count: coming soon.

[Skruffs]

Not to spit in your face, but you are saying you lied in the message you sent to me, a message you send right after mislynching Zindaras for lying about Carbon Copy?

[Glork]

No. I told you a partial truth.

If I ask you three questions, one of which involves your alignment, and I am going to *know* the answer to the alignment question, I will be able to discern whether your other responses are likely to be legitimate or fabricated. Thus, even though I would not be told the level of truth of your other answers, I can make a very good educated guess based on my knowledge of your alignment. Unfortunately, DP bypassed this by simply replying "Maybe" to my other questions.

For example, Skruffs. If I ask Thesp three questions and he answers, and I believe a "Thesp is not evil" result from the mod, then I can conclude that his answers to the other two questions are likely to be as accurate as possible, if we use the "Townies don't lie" principle. Thus, even though I only get a specific answer to the

first

question, I get indirect answers to the other two.

[Glork]

I have to say, though, I like the way that you're trying to stretch to make me look scummy in any way possible. Have fun trying not to be lynched next once I'm dead and gone.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zthe below means that you DON'T have lie detector ability, right?

If I ask you three questions, one of which involves your alignment, and I am going to *know* the answer to the alignment question, I will be able to discern whether your other responses are likely to be legitimate or fabricated. I told him in the message that I'd know if he were lying -- but my purpose in saying that was specifically to give my targets less incentive to lie in their responses.

Zthe below means that you DO have lie detector ability, right?

Like I said, as long as I ask a question regarding their character/alignment, I get to know whether they are scum or not.

Which is it?

^^^^^^^

Rethorical question, obviously, since it's pretty clear that you're making it up as you're going along.

[Glork]

DGB, listen.

I get told whether they are scum or not. This is a COP ability. But in knowing whether they are scum, I get an answer to my question regarding WHETHER THEY ARE SCUM OR NOT.

[DrippingGoofball]

I get told whether they are scum or not. This is a COP ability. But in knowing whether they are scum, I get an answer to my question regarding WHETHER THEY ARE SCUM OR NOT.

Z'OMG I am getting a gigantic migraine trying to wrap my head around "But in knowing whether they are scum, I get an answer to my question regarding WHETHER THEY ARE SCUM OR NOT."

[Glork]

Okay.

Suppose I send you a message in which I ask you whether you are scum and you say "No."

Suppose I am then told by the mod that you are scum because I am a COP.

Will I then know that you were lying? Yes. Yes, I will.


I am not a "Lie Detector." But

as a COP

, if I know that you are scum, I will know not to trust your answers to my questions.

[Skruffs]

By that reasoning, if you are a cop, the questions are irrelevant, regardless.

Unvote

If you are mafia, someone else will die tonight, and you will be lynched tommorrow, probably, and if you are town, there will be no deaths or mafia will kill you tonight. I still think voting someone the next day after geting an innocent on them as scummy as hell.
Think about it. If I receive this message and it says you are able to tell if I am lying, why would I then roleblock you? WHy wouldn't I just get someone to kill you? Bad thinking.

You didn't answer why you assumed that Primate's role is accurate. THe day before you were spitting venom that if he was lying that you would go after him, now you are sayign it's not worth it because he wouldn't die. Well, if is fake claiming, he Would die. Automatically assuming that he is a double deader, and not inspecting him because he might show up as a godfather, does not

make sense

. If you

think

he's scum you should be trying to get him killed, even if it takes two lynches. Otherwise he wins at final three regardless of if he's lynched or not.

And who the hell is trying to get Zindaras's OTHER player lynched?!?!

[Glork]

Huh. I thought I indicated this way at the start of the day (or even yesterday), but I don't see Primate counterclaiming if his

role/abiliy

isn't accurate, regardless of his alignment. But yeah, as I indicated before, my philosophy has changed based on the numbers. If we fail-to-lynch Primate, we won't be any closer to knowing anybody's alignment, aside from an overnight death. And we'll still have to invest another day -- quite possibly our only remaining day, if we're wrong -- in lynching Primate. I'm just being

cautious

.


Also, your claim that a death elsewhere implies I am scum is inaccurate. If scum think that there might be a Doctor out there, they'll go hunting for the Doctor so as to expose the Cop on the subsequent night (as was our thinking in Space Monkey). I would

expect

scum to try to hit elsewhere unless they think they have reason to believe that there is no doctor, or that the doctor is dead.

[Skruffs]

I just really find it odd that Primate counter claims zindaras, in a fashion, zindars is l ynched, turns up town, and now primate isn't worth going after. You seem to be conceding that he might be agodfather and than an investigation would be useless on him but seem to have no interest in actually trying to get him killed.
I unvoted you, regardless, because it's not worth riskign lynching acop, even one as scummy as you. Plus i reread your claim and sawa that you voted me because you thought you were blocked. I still don't get why you think that the mafia would block and not kill you, though, considering there is no evidence of a role blocker, yet.

[Miztef]

there is alot of opinions and assumptions and misinterpretations flying around in these last few posts.

Is there any way either of you (Skruffs/Glork) can post a concise and clear post about the allgations presented? Or even better, someone that is neutral on this matter?

[Skruffs]

Well.. I think I've resolved my own questions, and posted to Glork my suspicions abuot the matter that aren't resolved in my eyes. I do not like the glork/primate thing, but at least I know that Glork targetted me - and not THesp - last night. DGB also targetted THeo, not THesp. So we are getting closer to finding out who killed Thesp.

[DrippingGoofball]

I unvoted you, regardless, because it's not worth riskign lynching acop, even one as scummy as you.

Zthere comes a point where the scumminess is so overwhelming as to strip bare the normal inhibition about lynching a claimed cop. The only thing in Glork's favor is that there is no counterclaim at the moment. It is possible that the real cop is hoping not to claim just yet, in case Glork is lynched after all. Granted, it is idle speculation on my part.

Glork's about face regarding Primate is a major thorn in his credibility. I don't think he's suspecting Primate even a little bit today. How weird is that?

[Glork]

Glork's about face regarding Primate is a major thorn in his credibility. I don't think he's suspecting Primate even a little bit today. How weird is that?

Posts made today in which I have suspected Primate:

FoS: Primate, Dragon Phoenix

Primate, you gots some 'splainin' to do.

FoS: Primate

So I've been thinking about this whole Primate-double-life deal, along with Zindaras's double-role, and I've decided that it's very possible that they could both be pro-town. If the scums' win condition is to kill all of the cats which are actually famous (as indicated in the initial post), then giving famous cats "extra lives" would be something of a safeguard against the random unlucky occurrence in which the few famous cats we have get run up or nightkilled early.

I mean, suppose out of the 12 players + CC, we have four famous cats. Primate having a double-life would effectively give us 5 famous cats, which could make a lot more sense, balance-wise.

I think that any speculation on Primate's alignment based solely (or even primarily) on Zindaras' alignment is little more than a dangerous game of Outguess the Mod. I do not think Primate is the play today (despite what Massive seems to indicate). Also, considering how much we know about players in the game in general (like I said... DGB with a claimed post restriction; Theo with a doublevote, Timmy lynch-susceptible, Zindie with two identities, Primate with a claimed double-life, and a message-sender out and about), the scums probably have a pretty decent idea of what's going on -- far better, I daresay, than most of the rest of us have. And now Massive claims that Primate is lying or somesuch, and Primate claims to know roughly what Massive is talking about. There's too much information accidentally being given away, methinks.

I guess I'm wondering why you would have been so aggressive against Zindaras knowing that your counter-claim was based on a lie.

I don't necessarily want you to elaborate on this if it means giving away more role information, but if Primate's counterclaim was based on a lie, this bothers me to no end.

Strong FoS: Primate

The closest I came to endorsing Primate in those posts was when I was thinking aloud regarding the whole Real/Famous Cats situation. I said that speculation of Primate's alignment based solely on Zindaras' alignment was dangerous (something I still hold to, in spite of my D1 fanaticism), and I said that I didn't think Primate was the play

today

(which I have since then explained using a numerical/strategic argument).


So when you say that I haven't been "suspecting Primate even a little bit today" and I can point to three posts in which I FoS Primate and another in which I speak thoughts on the Primate situation, I have to wonder if you're trying to do any scumhunting, or whether you're just making things up and hoping that it sticks.

[Glork]

I'd give 3-1 odds on at least two of Theo, Primate, and DGB being scum at this point.


Just sayin'.

[Skruffs]

As to why I'd vote DrippingGoofball ... I don't trust

her

Z-posting "restriction" and I think the tie to

her

"claimed role" is incredibly loose at best.

However, I did get to thinking about yesterday and last night, and it dawned on me reading Glork's summation that I do in fact know Primate is lying about his role. Would you like to explain, Primate, or shall we go on the premise of "Lynch All Liars"?

vote Primate

Please stop calling DGB he/his/him. Thanks
~The Mod

After this Massive moved on to push for a DGB vote instead.
Massive, what do you know about Primate?

[Primate]

If massive genuinely doesn't mind me full roleclaiming, then I'm happy to do so.

I think I made the offer a while back, and he didn't take me up on it.

[Skruffs]

I'm more interested in Massive explaining first rather than you tryign to preemptively cover yourself up.

[Glork]

/agree Skruffs. (Wow... that's a turnaround.)

[Primate]

He knows everything I'm about to say.

Either he says it then I confirm it, or I say it then he confirm it.

I guess it's really just the fact that I'd like the opportunity to do my own defense. Massive wants me lynched. I don't think he'll put much effort into explaining.

[Miztef]

I'd give 3-1 odds on at least two of Theo, Primate, and DGB being scum at this point.


Just sayin'.

(we just learned about calculating odds in my data class lol)

The post where DGB said glork didn't suspect primate today seems like pure ignorance. As glork pointed out, he has many posts where primate is suspected. When placing heavy suspicion on someone, I think it's bad character to make a statement like that and have overlooked it so badly.

Something about theo makes me still want to keep my vote on him, but a

FOS: DGB

is in order here.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zoh, alright, I was under the impression, from Skruff's posts, that Glork didn't suspect Primate today. Sowwwyyy.

unvote

Primate seems mighty sure and mighty cocky that he'll prove himself. I don't think it's necessary for him to claim to satisfy massive.

Is it my imagination, or is massive beginning to look scummy?