Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Glork]

Miztef... I'm curious to know what the implications of "TheoScum," "GlorkScum," or "DGBScum" mean to you. Do you think that all three of us could possibly be scum together? Do you see any possible pairing (Glork/Theo, Glork/DGB, Theo/DGB) as being viable?

It seems silly to me that I'd be busing Theo while DGB is trying to bus me, so I don't think you believe that all of us are scum. Are you simply try to arrive at a decision as to which among us are most likely to be scum?

[Miztef]

Miztef... I'm curious to know what the implications of "TheoScum," "GlorkScum," or "DGBScum" mean to you. Do you think that all three of us could possibly be scum together? Do you see any possible pairing (Glork/Theo, Glork/DGB, Theo/DGB) as being viable?

It seems silly to me that I'd be busing Theo while DGB is trying to bus me, so I don't think you believe that all of us are scum. Are you simply try to arrive at a decision as to which among us are most likely to be scum?

I think it is very unlikely that you and DGB are scum partners, but any of the other combinations are possible, if not likely.

As you put it, I am simply trying to find which one among you is the most likely scum.

[Glork]

Okay, that's what I had figured. I just wanted you to make it clear.

[theopor_COD]

You're naive if you think anyone other than a vig is going to take away a life, and if we had a vig, it would have happened

last

night.

Thing is you should have lost a life, infact I'm not sure why you didn't.

interesting, why do you say this? When should he have lost a life?

Why because I targeted him last night to test his claim therefore he should have lost a life last night, unless he was protected or roles were somehow swapped by a bus driver kinda character or he's lieing out of his teeth and has actually lost a life.

[Primate]

No insult meant, but I wouldn't be surprised if the mod screwed up. It was a clarification to begin with. He definitely said it should say, though. I'll send the PM's he sent to me back.

[massive]

Sorry for the delay. No one could have reasonably expected this much activity over the weekend.

I am OK with Primate putting out his entire role. I think having the entire picture will be helpful for the town to understand what the heck happened yesterday.

Me included.

[Primate]

Ok. I'm Little Nicky. My role title is Future Clone. My flavour is that I can clone myself, but I haven't actually got the money to do so myself.

Massive happens to have a large amount of money. I know how much he has, but he should say that, if he wants to. Night one, he gave me $50,000 which I used to clone myself, which I did during day one.

If he decided to give me another $50,000, I could do so again, giving me three lives.

Every night, I get to send a begging letter to Massive in order to get money. He replies with a yes or a no in the morning scene.

The 'lie' I made day one was that I said I was a double life townie, when in actuality I was a single life townie who could easily gain extra lives. The reason I claimed in the way I did was because if I had counterclaimed as 'a townie who could easily gain extra lives', then it was fairly obvious that the next question made by the town would have been "well, how can you gain extra lives", meaning that I would have either had to be hugely vague about the whole thing, or out massive (or thesp, as I thought at the time) as the person writing the messages at the beginning of the day, and the person giving out boons to townies. So instead of saying what I was, I claimed double life townie, figuring that it was't a huge problem, Zindie would come up scum, and I could be in a near confirmed position, maybe a position where the mafia might actually waste two kills on me, only to be surprised by the fact I actually had a third life. That was more of a pipedream, though. They were the two things I lied about. One was obfuscating Massives role, the other was the fact that my top is two when it is really three.

Few other things. In my first begging letter, I subliminally claimed Little Nicky in a fairly unambiguous way, a way I clarified in my second. I also said I wanted $50,000 or $100,000, and that if he knew my name, then he could easily divine my real role. In the begging letter, I also gave a list of words that we could use to recognize each other. One of these words was Spanner, which I aimed directly at thesp (who had claimed the letter-leaver, and I thought was my benefactor), figuring that he would be able to put it together and realise what I was doing. I guess I just I just figured that if I was tiptoeing around the truth, it would be nice if someone I was fairly certain was pro-town knew exactly what I was doing.

I'll ask the mod if I can post my begging letters, seeing as I wrote them.

(also, this is why I think massive is pro-town. I don't see any scum giving abilities to pro-town people without having any idea what they do, when they could easily just decide not to, and retain their anonymity. The chance of randomly giving someone a cop investigation could be too much. Aside from the fact that a scum with the role he has would just be really lame.)

Think that's pretty much it.

[Skruffs]

Where in the morning scene does it say the answer, Primate?

[Primate]

The big obvious letter saying yes/no, yes/no, yes/no. I'm one of the yes/no's. I've no idea who the other two are.

[Skruffs]

....

Vote : Primate

[Primate]

why?

[Primate]

Oh ok. I don't know for certain that Massive is the person leaving the letters. I was just assuming. It seemed to fit, and there was the thing that the exact same letter dropped in the street contained a similar gimmick to the one I had just sent in a PM to massive. .I figured that there were three people who wanted money, and that was massives approval/disapproval for giving them it. I could be wrong.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zhit!!! Three lives? Aren't you really pushing the enveloppe of credibility??? You're tripping over yourself with all the things you made up. I have to give you credit for a florid imagination, but that still means you're scum. Yeah you were so sure that Zindi yould come up scum? "the other was the fact that my top is two when it is really three." Does that make sense? Who knows what you're doing with all that cash... cloning yourself 3 times? We already know that Zindie and Carbon Copy are the cloned cats.

That's pretty cut and dry, I think. I am not a believer.

vote: Primate

[Primate]

I'm hardly tripping over myself as I go along. I claimed Little Nicky in a PM to massive night one, and I wanted $50,000 from him, the exact same amount that the real life little nicky needed to clone himself. If I'm making this up, I would have had to invent this all up night one, had my false claim down pat from the moment I sent that PM to massive. Not saying it's impossible, but it does prove I'm not making this up as I go along, like you suggest.

And you're a dumbass if you're saying "We already know that Zindie and Carbon Copy are the cloned cats." like it some kind of major revelation. That's what the entirety of day one was about.

Keep up, DGB. For someone who's been playing so long, you're awfully slow.

[Skruffs]

Yeah, but Primate, Zindie really IS the cloned cat.
And the letters are from Glork - all three answers are fmo the people he targetted. HE didn't target Massive. None of the answers are frmo Massive.
The three questions were if I was 3d, if I thought you were scum,a nd if I thought DGB's posting restriction was real. There are no other letters, so, I think you just ruined a bad fake claim.

[Primate]

This has nothing to do with my role. You're voting me over the fact that I failed to guess massives role properly.

[massive]

I'm not leaving any letters. I have no contact back to Primate ... I only get to say "yes" or "no" to sending him money, and how much I'm willing to send.

A couple of comments for Primate's big post:

1. The initial claim of Little Nicky from the first PM is NOT "fairly unambiguous", as it's a string of letters that make zero practical sense without the explanation from the second PM. The second PM claims that the Muse song that the string of letters is from is featured prominently in, I guess, the Adam Sandler movie of the same name ... I've never seen it. But it also appears on one of their other albums ... but I'm not a Muse fan either, so it's all just a matter of pushing the "I Believe" button here.

2. I can't imagine why Primate would know how much money I have.

I don't think, had I been Primate, that I would have been so gung-ho about lynching Zindaras / Carbon Copy. The two roles aren't just different, they're COMPLETELY different. I mean, we're talking "two bodies" v. "can buy extra lives" -- it's not even close. It just doesn't follow if Primate is a townie. Sure, you can try and pressure to get him lynched, but falsely counterclaiming to do so seems like a real stretch, and while I've not played with Primate before, he doesn't seem like a bad enough player to think (a) we wouldn't eventually notice the dissimilarities and (b) that, if Zindaras / Carbon Copy came up town, that we wouldn't try and lynch him next, thus tying up the town in unfruitful lynches for what would most likely be days.

However, if Primate is Mafia, then Primate knew Day One that he was going to have at least ONE extra life because I paid him $50K ... so he knew, no matter what, that at the end of Day One that no one would have any info on him. He could put his neck out, and if he got lynched, it would be no problem -- he could talk the town into lynching Zindaras / Carbon Copy the next day, and probably get a third life from me, and by then it would be WAY too late for the town to recover.

I do, generally, get more the feeling that THAT is how things were supposed to go down.

I'd like to hear just a little more discussion, plus results from theopor_COD's messages to / from the mod, before voting, but I think I'm pretty set on voting Primate.

[theopor_COD]

plus results from theopor_COD's messages to / from the mod, before voting, but I think I'm pretty set on voting Primate.

What do you mean here mate? Messages?

[Primate]

1. The initial claim of Little Nicky from the first PM is NOT "fairly unambiguous", as it's a string of letters that make zero practical sense without the explanation from the second PM. The second PM claims that the Muse song that the string of letters is from is featured prominently in, I guess, the Adam Sandler movie of the same name ... I've never seen it. But it also appears on one of their other albums ... but I'm not a Muse fan either, so it's all just a matter of pushing the "I Believe" button here.

It appeared on the album Showbiz and the little Nicky Soundtrack. Feel free to try and come up with anything else it could mean. And I was saying that once you know what it is, it is fairly ambiguous, as in it couldn't really be anything else.

2. I can't imagine why Primate would know how much money I have.

I don't think, had I been Primate, that I would have been so gung-ho about lynching Zindaras / Carbon Copy. The two roles aren't just different, they're COMPLETELY different. I mean, we're talking "two bodies" v. "can buy extra lives" -- it's not even close. It just doesn't follow if Primate is a townie. Sure, you can try and pressure to get him lynched, but falsely counterclaiming to do so seems like a real stretch, and while I've not played with Primate before, he doesn't seem like a bad enough player to think (a) we wouldn't eventually notice the dissimilarities and (b) that, if Zindaras / Carbon Copy came up town, that we wouldn't try and lynch him next, thus tying up the town in unfruitful lynches for what would most likely be days.

However, if Primate is Mafia, then Primate knew Day One that he was going to have at least ONE extra life because I paid him $50K ... so he knew, no matter what, that at the end of Day One that no one would have any info on him. He could put his neck out, and if he got lynched, it would be no problem -- he could talk the town into lynching Zindaras / Carbon Copy the next day, and probably get a third life from me, and by then it would be WAY too late for the town to recover.

I do, generally, get more the feeling that THAT is how things were supposed to go down.

Massive, I pretty much flat out disagree with you that the roles are completely different. You could say the same thing about a full rolecop and a normal cop being 'totally different roles' because they do entirely different things, but it doesn't make it any more likely that they will be in the same game together.

And you seem to be pretty much ignoring the flavour aspect. Zindaras claimed two utterly autonomous cats. He also claimed that these two cats had that autonomy because of the fact they were cloned. However, I 'knew' that Zindie was lying out of his ass, because I also happened to represent two identical cloned cats, and

that is

not

what cloning does in this game

. Cloning gives you extra lives.

I'm a little bemused as to how, in your plan, you make sense of me getting a third life from you at a time when it was very unlikely you would give it. Also the way you put forward it as this totally awesome scum plan when it involves me getting myself lynched twice in exchange for one town mislynch.

PS: I love the way people are treating a mafia role that could have three lives day 1 in a mini game like it's plausible.

Also, I got a PM back from the mod. He basically said that if I had lost a life, it would be in there. Seeing as how it's not in there, I guess I didn't lose a life.

[Miztef]

PS: I love the way people are treating a mafia role that could have three lives day 1 in a mini game like it's plausible.

What do you mean? That 3 lives on a later day is much more plausible? I tend to believe it impossible that anyone could have more then 2 lives, unless the game had a severe way of balancing that. (extra lynches, lots of NKers, etc.)

My impression is that primate's ability works in one of these 2 ways:

1: massive has only $50,000, or can only give $50,000 and make 1 clone.

2: The extra lives are in some way worse, such as dieing within a day or 2, or fake entirely.

At this point I tend to believe the claim that he has some sort of cloning ability, with massive backing him, it seems more plausible.
[/quote]

[Primate]

PS: I love the way people are treating a mafia role that could have three lives day 1 in a mini game like it's plausible.

What do you mean? That 3 lives on a later day is much more plausible? I tend to believe it impossible that anyone could have more then 2 lives, unless the game had a severe way of balancing that. (extra lynches, lots of NKers, etc.)

Yeah, you're right. Having the lives later is pretty much the same. It's a holdover from an argument I was earlier planning on making. Basically, if the person in massives role gave me all the money n1 and we had 12 people to begin with, then it would put the town in lynch or lose day 1, which is ridiculous. Assuming that Phoebus is a survivor who sided with scum, it could mean that the town would have already lost by day 1, never getting a chance to lynch scum. That said, though, we didn't start with 12, we started with 13. The arguments not entirely moot, as it would still mean that the mafia could numerically match the town day 2, which is a little implausible, but there is obvious a non-mafia killer out there, and considering that the mafia would very likely have to out themselves in order to do it, it's not implausible to suggest that there are mechanisms to deal with that.

So yeah, that's the argument I was touching on with that paragraph, but it fell a little short, so I didn't include it.

@Theo: Does your kill method match up with either of the two people who died?

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Primate

[Primate]

Why?

[Glork]

I've already had misgivings about you, your roleclaim doesn't satisfy me one bit, and the deadline is later today, I believe. I'd rather secure a nonlynch against you than no lynch at all.

[Glork]

EBWODP: Nevermind, it's the 27th instead of the 23rd... the deadline was set on the 13th, which is prolly why I got confused.

Unvote

I'm going to read over everything again and see how I feel about this.