Mini 452 NBA All-Stars Mafia-Game Over!

[Xdaamno]

Hey all.

/confirm

[Xdaamno]

Vote: YogurtBandit

[Xdaamno]

Anybody got, uh, anything to say? XD

[Xdaamno]

I'll start it, ehh who is townie? Be honest......

Oh oh! Pick me!

No, seriously.

FOS: No-Lynch

Looking reeeal scummy there.

[Xdaamno]

Anybody got, uh, anything to say? XD

Not really.

OMG I SAID SOMETHING

Extremely funny, oh well... this starts off chat and finds mafia

I'll start it, ehh who

is

townie? Be honest......

So you're saying that you aren't?

Yes, I am a townie.... It's just starting the conv, and don't quote this, too many quotes

Yes, we know it was starting the conv, I got a half-sarcastic feeling from Papaya's post

So, our first implied roleclaim; vanilla townie?

And, finally, don't qu... oh, nevermind.

[Xdaamno]

No, I think he was making a smart-arse comment about us being childish

In which case he should of said 'There's always

two

'

[Xdaamno]

Nekka, this is basically one of two things:

Scum Play
Bad Town Play



So relax. Anybody else want to join the conversation?

[Xdaamno]

Well, my first game's lynch took 3-4 weeks. My second game's lynch took 1-2 days.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

Basically, a good time for a lynch IMO is after two weeks. This is enough time for long discussion but not enough to make it boring.

[Xdaamno]

Anyway, to get the conv start, lets do a relative word game thing... I'm sure Xdaamno knows, oh well he's asleep

What? Don't know what you're talking about.

I can promise you, I am a townie... (woops)

Bad vibes from this one.

The only reason I haven't voted NL yet is that he's always extremely scummy...and that's why I think he just sucks at Mafia. Which is also a good reason to lynch someone.

I see this as, if NL turns up scum, a possible distancing. Being 'bad' at the game isn't a scum tell.

[Xdaamno]

If I've been acting scummy all day, doesn't that partially negate the scummy?

...What? If you've always been scummy, you're scummy. Being always scummy dosen't mean you're pro-town.

I can promise you, I'm pro-town, and also if I get NKed, I'm probably going to suspect A Papaya...

I think it'd be very unlikely your going to be nightkilled; nightkillers attack those that are very pro-town so that there's more suspects for the town to choose from and more chance to make a mistake. They eliminate the ones the town know their safe with.

[Xdaamno]

Hmmm, I'm not sure Nekka actually IS scum, though. He may just not understand this game very well. I mean, he didn't know how we progressed to night; you can expect him to make psychological mistakes. Newbish and scummish are completely different things.

[Xdaamno]

Yes, but newbishness is in no way correlating to the chance of being scum. Because a player is newbish dosen't mean he isn't scum, but it dosen't mean he is either. It dosen't really change the chances.

[Xdaamno]

As for the other contributers so far: I get a vibe that xdaamno may be trying to hide in plain sight, but that's only a gut feeling and I'm not even going to make a formal FOS.

I know, I'm not being too helpful, am I >.<

Nekka, I'd like you, as scum OR townie, to acknowledge the flaw in most of your logic.

So, basically it's giving up me to find out 2 mafia

Hell yeah, we're up for that.

[Xdaamno]

That's the worst metaphor I've made all day!

Don't worry, we've all walked down the same road. *Ahaha.*

I'll do the other, less important parts of your post later.

[Xdaamno]

Nekka's gone, so I'll just take a guess here.

Does this strike anyone else as slightly off? What exactly are you guessing at? Finding scum? Because votes are usually one of two things: random/pressure votes and scum-finding votes, and judging by the use of the word guess you're trying to find scum with no info?

Or, atleast, that's how scum might accidently write their post.

[Xdaamno]

Yes, but Yogurt, you said it was random then said you were guessing. Just dosen't seem the kind of thing to naturally say while RVing.

[Xdaamno]

Vote: Haschel Cedricson

; he obviously knows everyone's roles.

(Yes, for those that can't tell, that was a random vote/joke, don't lynch me...)

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Pirates > Ninjas

[Xdaamno]

Vote:YogurtBandit

, bleh there had to have been some kind of discussion going on before the modkill that didn't lead directly back to random voting....

FOS: IH

... Wow, that was easy to type.

Anyway, you should be up to date with this kind of thing

[Xdaamno]

I wasn't aware that you hadn't read any part of the thread, and it seems out of place tonot know our stance of Yoghurt (which was random pressure). Odd behaviour = Scum Tell, but not enough to warrant a vote, just a FOS.

[Xdaamno]

Dosen't really matter since it wasn't really odd, you just hadn't looked at the thread.

I'll retract FOS if you think it makes a difference

[Xdaamno]

Hey Central, welcome.

Surprisingly, there dosen't actually seem to be that many scummy players in the game, apart from IH.

We really need to spark some more conversation.

Vote: IH

[Xdaamno]

Nothing in

particular

.

Both of the reasons made aren't strong. If you want to call my vote a pressure vote, you wouldn't be far off. Two votes dosen't mean anyone really thinks he's scum.

[Xdaamno]

Was that a hint of sarcasm or am I paranoid?

[Xdaamno]

No, you got me wrong. I thought he might be implying that random bandwagon jumping dosen't give us info (In that sometimes scum use it to lynch), and he was being sarcastic, and then I thought I was just being paranoid

[Xdaamno]

I haven't much time so I'll just review myself here

That seems like a pretty lame thing to use to distance yourself, but it might just be my rustiness. I don't really know what you new-fangled players have some up with in my absense.

Yeah. I can see how it could look like distancing, but that'd be a little lame anywhere outside a newbie game.

[Xdaamno]

TCS: Read Newbie 377.

TCS: The only reason you voted was to see me dance?

[Xdaamno]

Bite 'um mister phail.

[Xdaamno]

This is another weird one. Why would you attack this? I would ever have given Yogurt's post a second glance.

Look back. I only checked it briefly, and it was his overdefensiveness that made me need to explain myself more. Since I had to provide such a large explanation, it came off more aggresivly than I wanted it to.

[Xdaamno]

Hmm, OK. It's just there wasn't anything else to go on, and I'm fond of the small psychological tells like people saying 'mafia' instead of 'scum'.

Though, now I've said that, nobody will fall for it >.<

[Xdaamno]

This is my opinion.
Nekka Lucifer is an idiot, IMO. He doesn't help at all, and in every other game he is in, I get the impression that he is scum. He just isn't that good at mafia. Therefore, it's most likely he'll end up doing something stupid, even as a townie, and we'll waste a lynch later in the game, when it matters more, on him. That's why I wanted him out of the way now.

Papaya! When the HELL did you get the right to go round calling people idiots? The only grounds for that should be for flaming etc, not for 'playing badly'! Seriously, apologize; you don't even know who he is and you called him an idiot.

OT:

Did someone conduct a study in my absence?

No, it's just pretty simple psychology. There's a few people that would agree with me, I'm sure, and I did recall someone saying this in mafia discussion at some point aswell.

[Xdaamno]

It's a very deep psychological reason; mafia often make an attempt to refer to themselves in third person rather than refer to themselves naturally, and so use the term 'mafia' more often.

Of course, this is dependant on the 'base heart rate' of how often they say the word 'scum' anyway.

[Xdaamno]

I disagree, but it's irrelevant.

FOS: Yoghurt

for steering us off course.

[Xdaamno]

the Mafia

BZZZT!

[Xdaamno]

I also disagree with Xdaamno FOS, like 3 people asked you about the same exact thing. Why are you only FOSing Yogurt?

I forgot to add the at the end of my post. It was half-joking.

The serious side of it was he was the first person that came to mind after reading back a little.

[Xdaamno]

A Papaya, I don't give one on what your opinion of how good he is at mafia is, but we're not being reduced to name-calling

Anyway, what you replying to xyzzy about? Who do you think is the best lynch?

[Xdaamno]

Care to provide some mathmatical statistical backup supporting the idea of no-lynching?

[Xdaamno]

FOS: No-Lynch

Looking reeeal scummy there.

Liking you less and less, joke stealer

[Xdaamno]

ATALHE is a result I'd love to get for the sake :p

[Xdaamno]

Okay, I'm assuming that we began with 3 mafia, which seems pretty standard.

3/4 chance that N-L is town. Therefore, there's a 3/4 chance that we're at 7 to 3.
1/4 of mafia, in which case it's 8 to 2.
If he's town, we have about a 40% chance of killing a mafioso.
If he's scum, we have a 25% chance.

If he's town and we mislynch today, then we're at LyLo.
If he's scum and we mislynch, then we still have one more chance before LyLo.
If he's town and we lynch scum, then we have one chance before LyLo.
If he's scum and we lynch scum, then we have three chances before we're at LyLo.
If we don't lynch and he's town, then we have one chance before LyLo.
If we don't lynch and he's scum, we have 2 chances before LyLo.

This is all fine and dandy... if we were robots who just randomly voted and no one had any special abilities.

Indeed, you missed out the bit where it mentioned that when you were copying and pasting from the wiki

Leaning towards agreeing with TCS about Yoghurt, though I'm not 100% sure. Would like to hear more, and if I see anything else notably scummy, I'll launch my analysis.

[Xdaamno]

TCS, I was aware I was doing the exact same thing you described there, so I think, in defence of myself, I'll launch my analysis of anybody who stands out to me soon, Yoghurt first. Then you'll be able to gauge my feelings.

[Xdaamno]

Mmkay, I'm using the posts by user so I might miss a few things other players have said, but it shouldn't be too important.

Hello all! Hopefully the mystery can be solved so Everyone can watch the big game!

First post; obvious vibes. Possible newbie scum tell in the second sentence, but nothing decisive.

Im back all, Let me read over the posts, to see how I got 2 votes..

Second post. Ambigious but consistent with scum play.

RandomVote:IH

Nekka's gone, so I'll just take a guess here.

Fourth Post. Worth noting, but there isn't anything is particular. Could be useful later.

I did say it was random at the top. Just randomly voting here

Fifth Post. Strong scum vibes from the second sentence; he shouldn't need to state this so much; possible case of 'Mr. Nice Guy' scum play. Enough to warrant a vote already.

That is good logic, which means that the chance that Kobe's role is scum just went up 40%. Now to figure out who Kobe is...(or Who is Kobe)

Sixth. I'm not sure how seriously to take this, but it dosen't really look pro-town.

Meh, I was on vacation on Sunday and Monday(I did get on at night monday)
So I Just didnt comprhend the pages before Page 3.

Seventh. Didn't... comprehend? You read them but didn't understand them?

Yeh, Hopefully Bandwagon jumping can give us clues.

Ninth. Still nto sure if this is sarcastic. If not, it's ironically stating the obvious. Kinda looks like he's trying to say the right thing on purpose.

Perhaps we should just vote No Lynch, Because If N-L was town, and another townie is Lynched, than we're down two pepole. I'm willing to do it, Especially since I want to see N-l's role.

Thirteenth. No lynch seems bad play to me, but I guess ambigious.

Well, If we accidwently Lynch a Townie, and N-L turns up town ( Since he made a newb mistake, The chances are higher ) Thats two down. Which would be bad. If we No-Lynch, The worst that can happen is that we lose one townie, the best A "Opponent". Yes, if someone is obviously Mafia right now, Then that would be a good idea. Besides, Even if It goes into night with N-L as town, there is always the possibility of a RoleBlocker or Two. If you go back to Page 2, Post 28, by you, You Fos'ed No Lynch.

Fos: No Lynch

Fourteenth. Gah! I have to put some thought in...

This intruiges me: "Since he made a newb mistake, The chances are higher". Could be useful later, not sure how, but it seems important; his opinion on Nekka and any knowledge he may have.

His theory seems to ride on chance, such as roleblockers, Nekka being scum etc. Any scum are obviously more informed, so he may be making his argument on hidden knowledge. That, or he's cop - so I'm not ready to lynch yet.

Can you give me an example of doing this?

Sixteenth, waiting on answer.

[Xdaamno]

Oh yeah:

Mmkay, I'm using the posts by user so I might miss a few things other players have said, but it shouldn't be too important.

Hello all! Hopefully the mystery can be solved so Everyone can watch the big game!

First post; obvious vibes. Possible newbie scum tell in the second sentence, but nothing decisive.

Im back all, Let me read over the posts, to see how I got 2 votes..

Second post. Ambigious but consistent with scum play.

What? Can you elaborate?

I left it to be deducted, but sure, I'll elaborate.

The first point is the Out-Of-Character scum tell that I've seen occasionally, in:

Hopefully the mystery can be solved so Everyone can watch the big game

The textbook example of this is going 'Oh No!' whenever someone dies, when that's part of the gameplay anyway. Solving the 'mystery' is part of the gameplay, and stating it is a scum tell. IMO.

The second one is a possiblity of trying to make votes for him seem absurd, but that's consistent with town play too, hence ambigious.

[Xdaamno]

Which is why I'm not pushing for a lynch. There's a few good tells in my own (And TCS's apparently) eyes, but I accept he's not

definatly

scum.

Still, I don't think it's appopriate to let the pressure off this early.

Also noticed some (consistent with) scum play in TCS; he states he's caught two scum in an authorative manner, and seems quite sure at this stage, which is strange.

Non-OMGUS.

[Xdaamno]

This in itself is not enough to merit a vote, but I noticed that Fletcher has stated that he would "be fine with a no-lynch", and as an experienced player, he should know better. I also noted that he never actually voted No Lynch; I think that he's attempting to get others on the No Lynch bus without getting on it himself.

Actually a very good point there.

God, I'm agreeing with everyone. I suck

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Pirate Dude, what do you think of my views on Yoghurt?

[Xdaamno]

Happy Birthday Pirate Dude!

X,why did you only ask Pirate?

Because I had just posted a feature-length analysis, and he'd posted without referring to it at all. It was obvious he'd read it, so I wanted to know what he had to say.

[Xdaamno]

If anyone wants me to analyse anyone else to see what I think, just ask, and tell me who.

[Xdaamno]

Mmkay. I'll use the same system...

I'll kick this off.

Random Vote: McStab

Post 2. Might be useful later.

Anybody got, uh, anything to say? XD

Not really.

OMG I SAID SOMETHING

Extremely funny, oh well... this starts off chat and finds mafia

I'll start it, ehh who

is

townie? Be honest......

So you're saying that you aren't?

Post 4. The last sentence is actually a town tell for me. Scum are usually too careful to make that kind of ambigious joke.

Anybody got, uh, anything to say? XD

Not really.

OMG I SAID SOMETHING

Extremely funny, oh well... this starts off chat and finds mafia

I'll start it, ehh who

is

townie? Be honest......

So you're saying that you aren't?

Yes, I am a townie.... It's just starting the conv, and don't quote this, too many quotes

Yes, we know it was starting the conv, I got a half-sarcastic feeling from Papaya's post

So, our first implied roleclaim; vanilla townie?

And, finally, don't qu... oh, nevermind.

Bah, there's no way to prove that you're a vanilla townie through a role claim. So I don't know why NL tried.

5th post. Waffling on a little. May be usefu later.

There's always one....
I'm not going to say anything important, I just want to start off a new post quote link, the other one is too long...

Always one what? Vanilla Townie? Not ALWAYS...

6th. Seems a little obvious there (probably) won't be exactly one vanilla townie, but I don't think this is inherently a scum tell.

No, I think he was making a smart-arse comment about us being childish

In which case he should of said 'There's always

two

'

Meh, well, in this game, it seems the only way to get a discussion going is to act childish...so it isn't that bad of a thing. Anyway, it's childish to vote for someone because they FoSed you in another game, which is why NL voted for me.

7th. This catches my eye a little. He dosen't say what he meant by the statement, leaving us to assume it was being 'childish', and that means he must of changed his opinion.

Who cares about the difference of the post count? Why are you in such a hurry to lynch?

10th. Possible scum tell, trying to act like the good guy, strongly opposing a single thing good for the scum, while possibly taking advantage or others and making himself seem good.

That's one theory, anyway.

The only reason I haven't voted NL yet is that he's always extremely scummy...and that's why I think he just sucks at Mafia. Which is also a good reason to lynch someone.

Vote: N-L

13th. Seeming very scummy here; why is sucking at mafia a reason for a lynch? It wouldn't be hard to, if Nekka is a sucky pro-towner, convince him not to do stupid thigns such as vote randomly in lylo. At the moment there's nothing you really must or musn't do, so he's most harmful at this stage.

Unvote: N-L

He's new. He just PMed me about how he didn't think I was scum, which isn't allowed. And that means his new, not awesome. Don't lynch him.

Either that or he's like the awesomest person ever, which in that case we're screwed anyhow.

Strange. Why not lynch him? He's confirmed

new

, not scum. PMing you dosen't make a difference; either alignment could do it.

And, what's this about awesomeness? Why would he be awesome for breaking the rules?

I have no idea who to vote for, no one sees that scummy. So I'm going to watch the discussion develop...but IH does seem the must scummy to me, so far.

Possible backseat driving; a scum tell. Suspects IH but dosen't vote, might be useful later.

I'll explain my logic now, Fletcher.

This is my opinion.
Nekka Lucifer is an idiot, IMO. He doesn't help at all, and in every other game he is in, I get the impression that he is scum. He just isn't that good at mafia. Therefore, it's most likely he'll end up doing something stupid, even as a townie, and we'll waste a lynch later in the game, when it matters more, on him. That's why I wanted him out of the way now.

Boo.

Still, strange logic. Looks slightly off.

@No Lynch:

It's a stupid idea. Because if we don't lynch anyone at all today, we're going to be in the same spot as we were, minus players from nightkills. It's lose-lose.

FOS: Everyone who voted No Lynch

Good point, but it's an ambigious tell.


Overall, there's several scum tells against A Papaya, but to be honest, I'm not sure he's scum. Anyone I reviewed I'm sure I could find something scummy in, and I haven't noticed many (if any) inherent scum psychological tells.

[Xdaamno]

Also, Xdaamno, could we know see an analysis of Fletcher?

Bleh... too much work for me

I will, though. Since he's not registered on my scumdar yet I'll keep using Posts By User (TM), so I might miss other people's reactions, lurking, etc.

I'm going to Vote: Nekka Lucifer also. A game day can take weeks or months (as pointed out by IH). And yes, night does not come until we lynch or officially do not lynch someone.

Also, lets spell out Nekka Lucifer from now on, if it's not too big a pain, since he does happen to have the same initials as no lynch.

Post 2, possible distancing if Nekka turns up scum.

Unvote: Nekka Lucifer

School now. Talk later.

Post 4. Assumingly from an argument made to defend him.

Posts 132-134 look like distancing.

That seems like a pretty lame thing to use to distance yourself, but it might just be my rustiness. I don't really know what you new-fangled players have some up with in my absense.

Questions: Does anyone know exactly why Nekka-Lucifer was kicked out? Can we get a quote? Is that against the rules?

Need to reread. I'll get back with more complete thoughts on people tomorrow.

Post 5. Against TCS's points on 132-134 being distancing, will check who he's referring to after this post. (Oh, just realised as I was writing, it was apparently between me and xyzzy. In that case I'll have to agree with Fletcher )

The only reason I haven't voted NL yet is that he's always extremely scummy...and that's why I think he just sucks at Mafia. Which is also a good reason to lynch someone.

Vote: N-L

I still find this odd. Can you explain this logic to me Papaya?

At this point I think it would be very helpful for us to think about whether or not Nekka-Luicifer was scum. Honestly I think it is very likely that he was. He was very excited about night even though he had played in other games before and should well know that night did not occur until someone is lynched (is he always that excited?).

Seems to miss (Or not recoginize) the fact that lynching for being newbish/bad at the game isn't a good idea.

Also, yeh thx Fletcher for pointing out to say Nekka-Lucifer instead of N-L, cause I'm getting confused if people are talking to me or what...(w... too far?)

I find this hard to believe. If I had the initials NL I'm pretty sure I would always be thinking people were always talking about me. It's just odd that someone would lie about something like that. Then again he could have been telling the truth and I may be just reading into it too much. I still like to go with the addage that liers are scum, though.

Agreeing with him here. If people are referring to N-L, I'd find it hard to believe somebody would mistake that for No-Lynch in it's context.

I'm scared now, I got 4 votes on here, what have I done? Look at my join date, no-one's taking it into consideration anymore...

This is also weird, because earlier he made a point of saying this:

I'm relatively new, but stressing the relatively.....

He stresses the fact that he is not too new then uses his newness as a defense.

Starting to like Fletcher more after this, but once again, Fletcher being scum is highly dependant on what NL turns up as. If NL turns up scum this could definatly be distancing.

Also people like Xdaamno, A Papaya, Haut Boy, and xyzzy seemed very eager to jump on the Nekka-Lucifer bandwagon. It seemed to me that they misinterpreted Nekka quite a bit. Obviously all of them can't be scum, but it is worth noting.

Would like to know how Fletcher thought 'we' misinterpreted him.

Yes, but Yogurt, you said it was random then said you were guessing. Just dosen't seem the kind of thing to naturally say while RVing.

This is another weird one. Why would you attack this? I would ever have given Yogurt's post a second glance.

Ends with a vote on me. I think I answered this later by stating my love of psychology tells, but it was mainly people overexagerating my position on him.

As for Fletcher, I don't think attacking me would of been scummy; smart townies would do the same thing.

I also have no idea why people are voting IH.

Vote: Xdaamno

, he seems very vote happy.

My bits are bolded.

I disagree with you Papaya, but I can see where you're coming from.

I also disagree with Xdaamno FOS, like 3 people asked you about the same exact thing. Why are you only FOSing Yogurt?

Could be important later; views on me and Papaya (I'm trying not to drift into defending myself and stay focued on this one >.>).

I'm not adverse to the idea of no lynch. But I would definitely like things to play out some more.

Happy with my vote.

Would like a lil more reasoning on why you're fine with no-lynch. I don't see any way in which it could be good.

Then again, scum still backing no-lynch should of realised they won't get a majority on it and it'd be a moot point, so I doubt this is actually a scum strategy and anyone backing no-lynch with no good reasoning dosen't nessecarily have to be scum.

Conclusion: If I had to guess, townie, though if NL turns up scum that'd be bumped up a notch.

[Xdaamno]

Many players are expecting more experienced players to analyze everyone.

I'll take that as a compliment

Still, I'm hovering over the possibility of xyzzy being scum. There's been a combination of weak gut feeling and factual evidence against him from what I remember, but nobody's really made an advance.

[Xdaamno]

That's a weak, weak excuse.

Lynch this guy please.

I see your points, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks about xyzzy before we make a move.

[Xdaamno]

Honestly, I'd vote xyzzy here, but I'm just getting the feeling Yoghurt has slipped out off my radar when I hadn't really let off him IIRC. It's gut feeling more than anything else that's keeping me. Of course, if Yoghurt is scum, it's unlikely xyzzy is and vice versa (due to either way yoghurt would be voting his partner if they were both scum, though this is possible distancing of course, which means lynching Yoghurt/Xyzzy would be good anyway), so

FOS: Yoghurt/Xyzzy

[Xdaamno]

FOS: McStab

Why?

Isn't it obvious?

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

You know, xyzzy, you're right. I'm going to

unvote

.

This seems rather sudden. Was his argument really that persuasive?

[Xdaamno]

Mcstab, you really SHOULD care about day 1. Kills are NOWHERE near the only tells; look for who certain people attack and defend.

Infact, I'd like you to give us an analysis of a few players, if you don't mind.

[Xdaamno]

Questions: Does anyone know exactly why Nekka-Lucifer was kicked out? Can we get a quote? Is that against the rules?

Nekka-Lucifer was modkilled for out of thread communication (sending a PM about the game to A Papaya as mentioned earlier in the thread).

Midnight Sun (and StallingChamp) are currently banned from the site for the events of Newbie 377, and hence needed to be replaced.

I thought MidnightSun was someone else's sockpuppet. What did SC have to do with it?

Anyway, on topic, I think I'm going to

unvote, vote: xdaamno

. He deserves some pressure atm.

I agree.

unvote; vote: xdaamno

Wait, where was that posted? I don't remember it... you changed your vote without anybody posting anything between.

I'm not sure what to think of McStab, but he's definatly worthy of a lynch if he dosen't start posting a LOT more.

[Xdaamno]

Ok, I'll give a quick analysis....


I don't think that HC is scum. He just doesn't seem like he's giving scum vibes. Yogurt Bandit I don't like much, he seems to me to be a bit suspicious, but again, I don't have any proof, so I'm not going to vote him. Xdaamno I don't think is scummy, he seems to be in the spotlight alot, and that's something a scum wouldn't want to do. I'm not quite sure what to think of the other players, but i'll do a re-read of the game and post again.

Thanks. That input will definatly be helpful later in the game, atleast.

You've just boosted the town's chances of winning. Wasn't so hard, was it?

I agree that HC is giving almost no vibes to me, so that's fine.

The thing is, we're almost never going to find any definative 100% proof that someone's a certain role on Day 1, so whether you have proof or not isn't a basis for not lynching someone. Of course, nobody should lynch him YET, but it's evidence, not proof we're looking for.

[Xdaamno]

The thing is, we're almost never going to find any definative 100% proof that someone's a certain role on Day 1, so whether you have proof or not isn't a basis for not lynching someone. Of course, nobody should lynch him YET, but it's evidence, not proof we're looking for.

Talking about Yoghurt here... my posts are so badly constructed >.<

[Xdaamno]

Just realised who mlaker

was

and that I've not seen your avatar in ages - you've not posted in this game for more than a week.

Any reason for your lurking? It's pretty obvious you were, since you picked up on the FOS, apparently.

[Xdaamno]

Oh, I'm voting IH?

Unvote
Vote: mlaker

[Xdaamno]

Questions for Xdaamno: What FOS? Nothing seems to have progressed much, is there any reason why I warrant a vote? Could you explain other than "you thought I was lurking"?

It's not exactly like I'm going to lynch you, is it? Votes are much better for pressure than FOS, and in general FOSs are more assosciated with scumhunting and votes are ambigious.

Though I've probably ruined it now; I explain myself everytime I do this XD

[Xdaamno]

Why exactly are you applying pressure? I know you aren't lynching me, but are you trying?

Pressure > No Pressure

I might as well be doing

something

than sitting around in this thread.

[Xdaamno]

I don't really see much to comment on, to me nothing is really going down. I think Voting for me because I have computer problems is a little suspicious. Xdaamno is my top bet for scum.

Uhm... I realised I was voting for someone else, then looked at the possible candidates and chose one I'd like to hear the most from (Thus, a pressure vote). I try to keep my vote productive.

Pressure voting is almost completed unrelated to scum hunting.

[Xdaamno]

I don't really see much to comment on, to me nothing is really going down. I think Voting for me because I have computer problems is a little suspicious. Xdaamno is my top bet for scum.

Uhm... I realised I was voting for someone else, then looked at the possible candidates and chose one I'd like to hear the most from (Thus, a pressure vote). I try to keep my vote productive.

Pressure voting is almost completed unrelated to scum hunting.

This is a clever guise to conceal your true voting records. Mhm.

Drats; I've been completely figured out.

[Xdaamno]

I don't really see much to comment on, to me nothing is really going down. I think Voting for me because I have computer problems is a little suspicious. Xdaamno is my top bet for scum.

Uhm... I realised I was voting for someone else, then looked at the possible candidates and chose one I'd like to hear the most from (Thus, a pressure vote). I try to keep my vote productive.

Pressure voting is almost completed unrelated to scum hunting.

This is a clever guise to conceal your true voting records. Mhm.

Drats; I've been completely figured out.

Yup, let's string him up!

PARTICIPATION, anyone?

What's that, an acronym?

[Xdaamno]

I'm 90% sure that NL was town

I thought you were saying he was scum before? I'm sure you said he was scum after he got modkilled at some point, so the circumstances are the same.

I'll have to re-read for that one.

[Xdaamno]

I'm 90% sure that NL was town

I thought you were saying he was scum before? I'm sure you said he was scum after he got modkilled at some point, so the circumstances are the same.

I'll have to re-read for that one.

No, I said that he was scummy early on but revised my thoughts when he PMed me. Then I thought he was just stupid.

...And town? You changed your opinion of him completely from mafia to town because he PMed you?

[Xdaamno]

Well, to help contribute more, although I doubt this'll help catch scum much, here's some things...

You're obviously not getting it

We post to get readings on other players and apply pressure, and you are helping us catch scum; you're helping us find out whether yu are scum or not.

I think a no lynch would be a bad idea today, because if NL was town, and we lynch a townie, we may be down by two, but if we lynch a scum, then we balance things out.

You've said the good and bad points in an apparently equal way, so that should mean your opinion is neutral? Seems like you have another reason for saying a no-lynch is a bad idea psyhologically, regardless of whether no-lynch is a bad idea or not.

I think that mlaker is acting very scummy, he lurks more than even myself.

You lurk a lot more than mlaker does, trust me

I don't have any opinions about other people, except that Haschel Cedricson seems innocent to me.

Any reason for this?

[Xdaamno]

We defintaly need to decide on a lynch. I'm fine with IH (I've seen his play like this as scum before) and Yoghurt.

[Xdaamno]

No, that's how schis always plays.

Unvote

This is noted as a defense. For now, though, I'll take your word.

this is noted as distancing, but for now I will take your word.

mcstab, can you give me some opinions on who you feel is the most scummy so far?

I'm confused... you're saying inhim could be distancing from xyzzy, which means that he's actually right about xyzzy defending you, which means that... you're... scum?

[Xdaamno]

Hm. My argument dosen't make much sense when I re-read it, but it was mainly a joke anyway >.>

[Xdaamno]

...

Uh... right.

I'd really like to hear from Mcstab's replacement.

[Xdaamno]

(When he arrives)

[Xdaamno]

FOS: mlaker

Almost every single one of your posts is overdefensive -_-'

[Xdaamno]

6. Xdaamo. You post....a lot. While generally, I enjoy rampant discussion, you do a lot of just "posting". Seems like you're over-compensating for the scum tendency to lurk.

Couldn't give a rat's ass how much you enjoy it, but it's much easier to get a read (hopefully pro-town) on me that way, and it sparks discussion. The second sentence, even you have to admit, is just grasping, since you want to say something significant about everyone.

Still, that's an excellent opening analysis, compared to what most replacements do, including myself.

[Xdaamno]

Just got two votes with no explanation as of yet... I'd like to ask you how do you think my post was scummy? I mean yeah, sure, you could hunt it down for being manipulative, but scum rarely actually try and manipulate people using words, because it's so obvious to anyone reading it. I mean, I don't know what you think, but I'm not that stupid

[Xdaamno]

Just got two votes with no explanation as of yet.

EBWOP: One vote and one 'He's the best choice', I meant.

[Xdaamno]

I don't like your conclusions......

First, You believe two people are scummier, and breeze over them. You must not think they're scummy enough to try and convince the town.

It looks more like these scumtells

1.Trying to please the town, because they don't find schism scummy
2.Trying to LOOK town. There's a difference between looking town and trying to look town (Not wanting to look like you're omgusing)

Second, I don't like your suspicion on Fletcher as third. I disagree he's flying under the radar, especially in my reread as I noticed his posts alot. He seems to offer more of the opposite side of the arguments, and I seem to agree with him more because I don't agree with the most of the players posting.

I want to know why Inhimn jumped on Xdaamo, I don't disagree with the vote I think, but I want to know what I'm agreeing with.

Xdaamno, I have explained my vote on you, but I can go through and give a pbp. Which I think I will do. Mlaker didn't vote you.

I

voted you.

Sorry you misunderstood me, I meant inhim voted me and mlaker identified me as 'best choice'.

I'd appreciate if you're voting me an analysis anyway, since that makes it much easier for me to defend myself, which you want, sicne you'll know the truth a little better.

[Xdaamno]

Inhim, two points:

What's wrong with being outside the action? When was observing pro-scum?

And secondly, that's becuase practically all my votes

are

pressure voting at the moment. If I meant anything otherwise, sure, it'd be 'escaping', but I'm simply pressure voting and you're all taking them too seriously. If you want, give me an example of when you think I was hiding behind 'pressure vote'.

And yes, I'm overdefensive in all my games -_-'

[Xdaamno]

And yes, I'm overdefensive in all my games -_-'

sry to get off the subject here, but why does everyone think this is a bad trait? im not asking about this game in particular, but in mafia generally.

While I do think it's hyped, I believe it's because scum tend to get a little more paranoid.

[Xdaamno]

Great, now I'm being screwed over by sch too

What's wrong with being outside the action? When was observing pro-scum?

Since Scum sit back while town accuses each other, and scum follow along with it.

sry to get off the subject here, but why does everyone think this is a bad trait? im not asking about this game in particular, but in mafia generally.

Because town doesn't need to be defensive without a reason. If you're defensive when you don't mean to be, it's because you need to have a reason.

I'll try to get that reread on daaamno done, but I'm not sure if I can, as I'm pressed for time as it is.

Look at my sig.

Your first answer is acceptable, but you missed out the part where observing like that can also be a pro-town thing to do; I'm trying not to stir anything and keep players as they would be without me interfering, so, theoretically, i get better results.

Thanks for promising a re-read on me, it'll help.

I have siggys turned off

[Xdaamno]

Vote Xdaamno

Tomorrow, schismatized. Schismatized seems to basically be defending any point or argument Xdaamno makes, and tries to dissuade us from legitimately going after Xdaamno. For a first day lynch, I think we can't do much better than Xdaamno.

And uhm, in this case, wouldn't that mean

Schismatized

would be the better lynch? I mean, you're saying me being scum is dependant on sch being scum.

[Xdaamno]

For the record, even though my vote was originally a pressure vote, mlaker

is

at the top of my scum list.

[Xdaamno]

That's tommorow.

Guys, if you aren't 100% sure, take your votes

off

me, atleast for the time being.

[Xdaamno]

Hm, my watch has the wrong date, apparently.

Yes, that's tommorow from now. Guys, I can't really argue against many of your points, but trust your gut. I'm not scum, you know it.

[Xdaamno]

im going to

unvote

now. a lot of your guys reasoning for lynching xdaamno is bc he plays differently in other games. i dont know, i havent played with him all that much too know.

When have people said that?

Even though, it's true, I'm relaxing a little in this one, compared to others. Having said that, the last time I went all-out I was scum

[Xdaamno]

-_-'

I

hate

it when I fail to see why, just like every game I've ever played on here

[Xdaamno]

Guys, atleast... just vote someone else, or unvote me, or W/E. There's no way I can prove I'm 100% not scum, and even if it is only your gut feeling, my posts have been generally pro-town (And anyone saying a sch connection should lynch him before me, in that case).

[Xdaamno]

Considering I'm going to provide a pretty big defence soon, hopefully, requesting a

deadline extension

(Plus, I don't want to get lynched like this. Duh).

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: I'll do it within the next 6 hours, after that I'm going somewhere so I won't be there if the deadline isn't extended.

[Xdaamno]

Just to let you all know, doing it now, hopefully to spark some more conversation and raise the deadline at the same time. The deadline's made to start conversation, not screw over the town (See what I did there? ).

[Xdaamno]

First my defence. Here's a compliation of every argument against myself I've found presented:

Xdaamno, I don't like that you only commented on the section of our newcomer's analysis related to you. That's rather defensive, no?

As I've already said, you'll see I'm overdefensive in all of my games. It screws me over a lot, I admit. Anyway, if I didn't want to comment on it to much, what do you think the section that's most relevant to me? Yes, my own. You could of argued I was ignoring my own defence if I did anybody else's.

I think the point is Xdaamno, that my gut tells me you are scum.

I'll represent all of the gut feelings with this post, and obviously there's not much I can defend this with. I can say, however, that I attract this kind of argument in almost all my games (I don't know why (And by brackets like the past one I get a bad gut feeling off

myself

-_-')). Anyway, if you singularily want to lynch me for that, I suggest you really should look for a bit more evidence, because otherwise it's kind of unfair since I can't defend myself against gut much.

Vote Xdaamno Tomorrow, schismatized. Schismatized seems to basically be defending any point or argument Xdaamno makes, and tries to dissuade us from legitimately going after Xdaamno. For a first day lynch, I think we can't do much better than Xdaamno.

I asked mlaker wouldn't that make sch the best lynch, and he hasn't replied. I'll stand by the fact that somebody defending me only is a scum tell on yours truly if the person defending me is also scum. It's ridiculous to lynch people based on them being connected, for all you know we could be masons (Though I admit we aren't >.<).

I'll try to get that reread on daaamno done, but I'm not sure if I can, as I'm pressed for time as it is

Please try, IH.

In the early stages of finger pointing, Xdaamno just seemed to be an entity posting from outside all the action. Also he has given the escape route of "pressure vote" with most of the votes he has made.

That's one way of interpreting it, Inhim; that I'm scum observing the game. The other is that I'm town observing the game. While my behaviour is admittedly

consistent

with scum play, it dosen't nessecarily mean I

am

scum.

While it's in my mind, some people have asked me about Fletcher. As much as I also believe you may be pro-town, pirate guy, I disagree in that Fletcher's scum; most of his arguments are solid from my POV (Including the early ones against me).

Xdaamo wrote:
We defintaly need to decide on a lynch. I'm fine with IH (I've seen his play like this as scum before) and Yoghurt.

So.... why did my name come up? Curious is all, as this is the first time you mentioned me in a while.

I only just realised, after reading another of your games, that you often play similar to you are doing now, as scum. Then again, I haven't yet seen you as town. I guess saying I'd be fine with you for a lynch was going too far, though. Dunno what I was thinking (Once again, gut feeling for myself, anybody thinking that too? And, yes, pointing it out and not deleting it is more beneficial since you know what i'm thinking and I don't trip over myself).

I don't like 207, Xdaamno just sounds like he want's to please the town's opinions, not find scum. In other word's he doesn't take the initiative to do them, he wants them on request.

I don't like how everyone suddenly wanted Xdaamo to give analysis's.....

My defence to this is that I guess a lot of people would have had lots of self-centered pots such as mine, and you might have taken it out of context. If not, apologies for getting you wrong and I'm just not focused.

About your second paragraph, I just though my connections to others might be useful, somehow. The more information you (we) all have, the better.

Xdaamno wrote:
It's a very deep psychological reason; mafia often make an attempt to refer to themselves in third person rather than refer to themselves naturally, and so use the term 'mafia' more often.

Of course, this is dependant on the 'base heart rate' of how often they say the word 'scum' anyway.

I call BS. That's like claiming vanilla instead of townie indicates you're scum, but it truly truly doesn't. It just sounds like a crap reason to cast suspicion on someone.

If you want to disagree, fine, but I believe it and you can't pin me for that (And your example's kind of different. Not many people actually refer to them as 'the mafia', from my experience, apart from scum. I could be wrong, but I believe it anyway).

[Xdaamno]

Claim? Regular townie. As I've said in a few games, though, that's what I'd say as scum so it won't help you.

I'll do the offence half of that analysis later, hopefully. I feel my defence if more urgent though.

[Xdaamno]

... Yes, that's what I'm saying. 'A lot' (Not everything) of things have been a slight (not major, IMO) scumtell, but I always play this way (as pro-town), so I'm (not obviously, but I am) protown. One of the things I'm doing differently the usual is playing more casually with a lazier start; and now that's evidence against me, for some reason.

Try to atleast review some of my individual statements in depth, god...

[Xdaamno]

Mmkay, list all the evidence you think I haven't answered satisfactorily.

[Xdaamno]

Considering I'm going to provide a pretty big defence soon, hopefully, requesting a

deadline extension

(Plus, I don't want to get lynched like this. Duh).

One person by himself is not enough to get a deadline extension.

In that case,

anyone

who's less than about 75% sure I'm scum should be requesting with me.

[Xdaamno]

Thanks, guys.

[Xdaamno]

Mmkay, list all the evidence you think I haven't answered satisfactorily.

Stop avoiding it, xyzzy

[Xdaamno]

OK, claim? Regular townie? Who's your NBA player? I don't know if not mentioning that is necessarily suspicious but I'd still like to know. I'm quite sure you're scum Xdaamno.

Jason Kidd. For the record, I have no clue who he is, I don't watch NBA.

[Xdaamno]

Who's Kobe? XD

[Xdaamno]

Kay, now the deadline's extended, I'll give a brief analysis on a few players sometime today.

[Xdaamno]

I've debated with myself over whether to include those I thought were pro-town, since it oftem digs me a deeper whole and if they turn up scum I often get lynched after already being in this position. I guess the more information, the more likely we are to lynch correctly though.


Fletcher: I don't know what everyone else thinks, but this guy looks like he's geniunly trying to hunt scum.

Pirate: While I don't like his flip-flopping, I get pro-town vibes.

IH: Reserving a 'I told you so' for if he's scum, but there's nothing more than gut on him for me.

mlaker: I've disagreed with practically all of his points, and they just seem badly-thought out to me. Would like to hear more.

schis: I don't like the sheepishness and going-along-with-what-everyone-wants he does. IGMEOY, and I want to see some of your opinions of players, like I have done here.

xyzzy: I also don't like some of this guy's posts. His vote on me looked like backseat driving, and then he quickly became (one of?) the only outspoken guys against me, which is strange. It's only consistent and not definitive of scum play, but I still don't like some of his arguments.

Yoghurt: My impression on this guy's gone up slightly from his more recent posts. Neutral, IMO.

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno claimed his NBA player above, albeit not his powers. Do we believe him? Nobody has counterclaimed yet, which is, so far at least, an indicator that Xdaamno is tellling the truth. Also, I don't see Jason Kidd being particularly scummy, especially when my guess for who the Mafia characters are would be Kobe, Rasheed Wallace, and a non-player.

Just to point out, I claimed vanilla townie earlier on, if that's what you meant.

[Xdaamno]

mlaker, truth be told, the reason I joined this game is because I know Nekka off-line. We

have not

spoken about this game outside it, and Mr. Flay knows, and TBH I'm not going to be doing it in the future. I was up for a mini game and this seemed like a good idea at the time, but my opinion of Nekka (For the record) isn't changed based on this fact and I won't be joining games with him again.

And I live in Britan, where we don't watch NBA at all

[Xdaamno]

I'm off, posting again tommorow, cya all.

[Xdaamno]

Firstly, clue me in on what SPIN means

Also, where's IH? I want to convice him.

[Xdaamno]

Oh, I see.

[Xdaamno]

Assuming there's 3 mafia (and no SKs/Vigs):

Townie/Scum ratio

Currently 10/3
Lynch scum, 9/2
Lynch town, 7/2
Lynch town, 5/2
Lynch scum, 4/1
Lynch town, 2/1
Lynch scum, 2/0

So that's means we can lynch another 3 townies before lylo. I thought it was more strict in 12P, but then again I've never played one before.

I'll go and look for who did/didn't interact with schis tommorow.

[Xdaamno]

Cop, Vigilante, Doctor, etc, etc. Being a mason with one other person, while powerful, probably wouldn't help the game as much as a doctor or cop. Vig is up for grabs.

Mason can be MUCH more helpful than doctor in some situations, and vigilantes can actually be detrimental to the town in others.

-teach-

I'll review the rest of day 2 when I can be bothered.

[Xdaamno]

I guess nameclaiming would be fine as long as it dosen't blind us if someone's name looks scummy, but then again I'd expect the mod to have provided a few safe claims in a game like this.

[Xdaamno]

why oh why didn't you kill xdaamno. = (

...

I'm afraid life is pain?

>.>

[Xdaamno]

inHim, mlaker, xyzzy, YB

^^ one of these guys is scum. /quote]

You think yourself is scum?

Fos:Ihim

No, he means he thinks one of those guys is scum, or otherwise he's lying, and thus he's scum. He's presenting it from our point of view (Correct me if I'm wrong inhim).

[Xdaamno]

Haschel had contacted me last night too = (

So, we've learned a couple of things here.

1. We have to assume HC thought IH to be the most pro-town person out of us all.

Why do we have to assume this? And why what would be benifet from assuming this anyway?

2. IH could be lying and we know that liars are always lynched.

LaL is a debatable theory; a pro-town player can have many reasons to lie, so I disagree (Though, admittedly, this is more often scummy than not. Innocent until guilty, however)

Since 2 is unlikely, I'm gonna go with 1.

I haven't come to any conclusions yet, I'm just stating what I see.

[Xdaamno]

Also, FOS: xdaamno, sonicpulsar for beginning to derail the Day with meta-talk, especially LAL-talk. I'm not sure which of you is guiltier, at the moment: sonicpulsar for the initial comment or xdaamno for expanding it to topic talk.

Eh.

FOS: Inhim

For crap logic (You're derailing a viable game theory discussion, relating to our own players. While it's not the best use of our time I didn't think you'd make this a full-scale conversation).

Also, waaaait a second.

Haschel had contacted me last night too = (

Uhm, wouldn't the selected partner mason be empowered at the end of the night (Since that's when the action takes effect), and thus he wouldn't be able to talk in the same night and also wouldn't know he'd been chosen?

[Xdaamno]

Eh, I don't really get you. What do you find scummy again?

[Xdaamno]

Eh. I can see why people would believe it to be scummy, but don't you think that's a little unreliable? It was the start of a day, and I didn't have much to go on (Well, I did from day 1, but I wasn't activly looking at it at that time).

Fletcher; thanks for the post promise. You seem one of the more honest players in the game, currently.

sonic, getting some mixed vibes. Still yet to make a decision on you, though I can see a possiblity of a scum-allying with town connection, since you're linked me to yourself a few times; though there's no evidence to back this up.

[Xdaamno]

In other words "I'm floating along with what people say, and don't have any real suspicions." WHy do I draw that from that? He admits to having the whole day, but obviously has drawn nothing from it.

Unfortunatly, I can't deny this. I was floating along a little, and nobody had really said anything worth reviewing at that time, on that day, IIRC. In every single game I'm in I attract attention, and the reason is distinct to me now. I don't review my own posts before I post them. I post whatever's in my head, and people pounce on it for not being good enough. You really should look at some of the more thought-out posts before you think I'm worthy of a lynch.

[Xdaamno]

Like usual, no idea why anyone finds me scummy. List the reasons.

[Xdaamno]

Anyways, what are you implying with your last sentence? Are you saying the people who have voted for Xdaamno could be scum and that they're trying to play off of everyone's (I assume) negative feelings toward Xdaamno? If so, I'm inclined to agree with you. At this piont, I'm starting to think that Xdaamno is either crappy town (over zealous) or scum. I'm leaning toward the former.

Uhm, what the

fuck

? Crappy town? I've made more commitment to this game that you have, easily. I've analysed a lot more than everyone else and you can't say I'm crappy for attracting attention when I blatantly don't know why everyone even suspects me.

[Xdaamno]

If I had a big red X I'd post it.

That's a horrible defense "Before you lynch me for something scummy, look at THESE posts. Don't I look not as scummy now!?"

Also, Playing well and Playing actively are two different things. Not taking either side on that one, but it's just a matter of sematics. <.<

I will repost why I think Xdaamno is suspicious in my next post

Strawmanning. Review the entire paragraph, not the last and shortest sentence.

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno, I'm trying to basically tell you why everyone suspects you. You're over zealous (at least in my eyes). This leads to me thinking you're either scum, or won't do much good for the town.

The reason you won't do much good for the town is the fact that you're grabbing so much attention. It's easier for scum to float under the radar. I mean, if I really thought you were scum, I'd have voted for you a while ago. This makes me think you're crappy town. But that's just me. Perhaps others (yourself included) think your tactics are genius and game winning. I don't. But as long as you're having fun, who cares.

For the first time on this site, I'm angry at someone for being such an idiot. Really. You're saying you think I'm town, but also I'm not doing much good because I'm grabbing so much attention. Has it even fucking occured to you I thought not holding back views would work in the long term, and that this is how I always play? This is so patronizing and childish it's almost a scum tell for manipulation. If you don't have anything nice to say, shut up.

[Xdaamno]

Eugh, wtf is this. 'Scum for completely overreacting'?

Four main points:

1. What constitues overreacting to be a scum tell? The basis behind it being a scum tell is that the player is paranoid and reacts to the slightest attack against them. In this case, my

person

was attacked and not my alignment. What reason would (hypothetically) a scum player have to strongely react against a point that dosen't imply they're scummy?

2. I do this in every game I play in, and I have to say this very statement in every game I play in. When I find something to pick at because it has so many holes, I pounce on it hardly. Because of this, it will appear that I overreact against the slightest and weakest points.

3. Why would you definitvly label such a weak point as 'Xdaamno is scum' rather than 'Xdaamno is probably scum'? It's a circumstantial scum tell at most, not a definitive point.

4. If any player looked back, they'll see as soon as the wagon started on me you thought me to be by far the scumiest players, hardly reviewed anyone else and haven't let off since. At the least, this makes you an untrustable source; and you're high on my scum list anyway.

No strawmanning.

[Xdaamno]

I think it unlikely that both mafia were on the lynching wagon yesterday, as at least one tends to try not to pile on. Therefore, one of myself, xdaamno, and Fletcher are probably scum. That's my take at the moment.

Hmm. I doubrt Flether's scum, and I know I'm pro-town, yet I doubt scum would point this out intentionally. My take is, from hindsight, though something probably wouldn't happen, it dosen't change whether it can or not. If that makes sense, which it probably dosen't.

[Xdaamno]

You're saying I wouldn't mention my name as possible scum based on a site-wide generalization if I were scum. I would. But don't let that screw you up. The percentages say that you or Fletch have a greaterlikelihood of being scum.

I know what you mean - as in it's entirely possible scum would point out something incriminating against themselves; after all, it's less damaging than if someone else uncovers it (Even if this isn't a strong tell), but it just dosen't happene consciously that often IMO.

[Xdaamno]

-_-'

I post an argument, and you respond by 'I'm not having fun. I think you're scum.';

what

? You should be annoyed at me out-of-character, not accusing me of being scum because I got annoyed at you; the two are completely uncorrelated.

[Xdaamno]

I'd say 'I don't like inhim's posts, but coincidentially I don't like xyzzy's either', or something like that, if I knew I wouldn't be lynched for backseat driving or something.

Oh wait...

[Xdaamno]

Posting this in all my games. I'm having a surprise vacation from this Monday (the 23rd), for about one week, and if I have any internet access at all I'll be lucky. I don't particularly want to be replaced in all my games, so mods; please talk to me before you do anything drastic, since I'm still here for 3/4 more days.

>.<

[Xdaamno]

Horray.

EBWOP (In all games >.>): Just found out I'll still have internet access, after making a few phone calls, so I'll be fine.

[Xdaamno]

Sonic, your arrogance winds me up. Prehaps you'll learn when you play a bit more mafia that I can't be 100% attentive absolutely all the time, everyone makes mistakes and that you're so obviously boosting your ego it's ridiculous.

[Xdaamno]

I'm inclined to side towards inhim simply because it's the first time I've had a real defense, but...

I've found scum split themselves on both sides of a wagon on a buddy of theirs, and assuming we have three left (yes, I've taken the liberty to gauge a possible setup), it appears Xdaamno isn't one of them.

Not saying that I

am

scum, but, for the record, I don't get this. If they sided on both sides of the wagon couldn't that mean me and someone else on my own wagon or scum, or... have I got this wrong?

Wait, it's now scummy to ask for rationale for a vote?

I've always held that it's a bad idea to do anything based on playstyle being scummy, unless they act differently. I don't see how I've ever gone off of that.

Constantly askintg for rationale can be annoying and simply not always right, from my experience. Every time someone votes it's not either 'They have a massive argument' or 'They're scum'.

Looking back at most of xyzzy's arguments, they do seem to be maintaining pressure while grasping at the same time, which dosen't seem that honest. If I had to pick someone today, it'd be him.


<<< Brief recollection of my thoughts. I'll do better from Monday onwards when I'm not on vacation, hopefully.

[Xdaamno]

If we don't get anywhere, I'm up for hammering xyzzy (Don't call scum on this one, I'm saying this as a disclaimer before I go ahead and do it so feel free to stop me (And don't worry, I'll wait a day or two before hammering)). Rather than his more recent posts I think the earlier ones look a bit backseat, but I don't disagree with everything else said and he's on the top of my scum list.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Also, not being blinded by aggravation here but I wouldn't cross out sonicpulsar as ego-tistic scum.

[Xdaamno]

Mass nameclaim?

I'm up for it,

obviously

Also, someone said 'Me and xyzzy are trying very hard to distance' IIRC, which I guess implies me as scum at this point. If you provide an argument for it I'll give you a defense.

[Xdaamno]

Regards to my name, I obviously don't know whether he's in the game or no. If he isn't, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed at the mod for screwing me over by making only those with game knowledge have an advantage >.<

Bah!

0_0

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Ooh, how about this: At the time, I think we knew it was only the all-star players were townies, right? Now, assumingly, the mod didn't provide bad names as safe claims for the scum, if they have any. Now if I was asked to roleclaim,

you're

suggesting I went with a bad name, i.e.

my own

name. Why wouldn't I use a safeclaim instead?

And if there's no safeclaims for scum, this game's quite unbalanced

[Xdaamno]

Double EBWOP: Also, ran with that without explaining where I was going. I was doing an as-scum hypothesis,

obviously

-_-

[Xdaamno]

TRIPLE EBWOP: (God) Another clarification, if I was scum I think I probably could of

guessed

my own name was bad and the sameclaims were fine, if your theory is right (or not?).

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno, you better find something else besides WIFOM to keep my vote off of you. I should've stuck with my initial read.

Argh, I don't know how to defend myself. I can't defend against my name not being in the game (apparently), and I don't know what you mean by treading water (With WIFOM it's easy just to call that on any if/else argument, but if you actually read it it might make sense).

[Xdaamno]

If we massclaim tomorrow, it should be done in this order:

sonicpulsar>fletcher>yogurt>adam>inhim>me

What's the fucking sense in lynching me

before

massclaiming >.<

[Xdaamno]

What's your role, xdaamno?

I've already said, vanilla

[Xdaamno]

Don't like that. You were

waiting

for someone to ask why. What are you trying to do, distract people from my post?

[Xdaamno]

I think you're wrong. We don't know for sure that it is all-stars vs non-all stars or else you would be lynched already.

Even if we were fairly sure that it is, indeed, all-stars vs. non all-stars there are plenty of reasons to not use a safe claim.
- It was day one and know one had really mentioned that idea whenever you claimed.
- To avoid counterclaiming someone.
- To avoid a rolename cop.

You're contradicting yourself. The

only

significant reason anyone's voting me rests on the fact that it is all-stars versus non-stars. You can say my argument's wrong if it isn't that way, but then your argument would also be wrong. If your offence is correct, my defence

must

be correct. For my defence to be naturally wrong your argument would have to be naturally wrong too.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Also, by saying I'm scum you're saying I bussed xyzzy. I don't see much evidence of a sudden change onto him in my past posts.

[Xdaamno]

Double EBWOP: Damn, new page. I'm reposting here because from my experience arguments at the end of pages don't get read

I think you're wrong. We don't know for sure that it is all-stars vs non-all stars or else you would be lynched already.

Even if we were fairly sure that it is, indeed, all-stars vs. non all-stars there are plenty of reasons to not use a safe claim.
- It was day one and know one had really mentioned that idea whenever you claimed.
- To avoid counterclaiming someone.
- To avoid a rolename cop.

You're contradicting yourself. The

only

significant reason anyone's voting me rests on the fact that it is all-stars versus non-stars. You can say my argument's wrong if it isn't that way, but then your argument would also be wrong. If your offence is correct, my defence

must

be correct. For my defence to be naturally wrong your argument would have to be naturally wrong too.

[Xdaamno]

-_-

Firstly, inhim, were you 'checking for reactions' or not?

Secondly, please to god nobody hammer me until you dig a little deeper, because you're running on a conditional point alone here. You've haven't even argued my connection with xyzzy, etc.

[Xdaamno]

What are you arguing, a 3-scum pairing when 1 scum's already been identified?

[Xdaamno]

Didn't say they both had to be scum, just that both are under suspicion.

There you go assuming numbers of scum again. I know it's typical of games this size, but... you've been around for three and a half months. I didn't know the typical number of scum in a 12-player game at 3.5 months.

Can we please lynch xdaamno?

I specifically worded what I said to mean 'Are you implying there's 4 scum' (Regardless of whether I was right or not). If you were, that would mean you were going against Occam's Razor or you have some inside knowledge.

I didn't know the typical number of scum in a 12-player game at 3.5 months.

Nub

I knew the typical number of scum in a 12-player game at about 4 weeks, after reading some minis and researching some good game setups.

[Xdaamno]

That dosen't change the fact you're wrong, it just changes the fact you aren't a nub.

[Xdaamno]

it just changes the fact you aren't a nub.

Bad wording, you get what I mean.

[Xdaamno]

Well, I haven't made good with my promise to make a scummy list but it seems fairly moot at this point til we figure out the name claim stuff. At least a lot of what I was building has seemingly been thrown up in the air.

I'm keeping my

FOS Fletcher

up. I don't like that he was so quick to throw in a second vote and then just as quick to unvote. For me, I have to be fairly confident of my decision before I'll vote for someone and it then takes fairly compelling evidence to cause me to unvote and/or change my vote.

Hm. You could redeem yourself provide

providing

a 'scummy' list. And your second paragraph is overly reserved play; at this point, 1 vote wouldn't harm anyone and it'd apply pressure.

[Xdaamno]

My patience is being tested here, as I've provided defences which have been ignored, only for a few new attackers to simply agree with everyone else.

[Xdaamno]

That's a bad defense. Like I said, a game like this without safeclaims is

very

rare, so it's safe to assume there are some.

Note I'm not attacking Adam here, I'm just pointing that out

[Xdaamno]

Why would someone complain about no safeclaims,

if they were scum

? What, you think I'm trying to admit I'm scum, or that I'm a mafia member illogically left with no safeclaims and having a go at Thok?

[Xdaamno]

To me, this sounds like complaining about the fact that a safeclaim wasn't provided for the mafia member, and it's now coming back to bite you in the butt. The smiley face seems like trying to come off as nonchalant, aloof, and seemingly happy for the game possibly being unbalanced, but to me it seems forced and fake. I think you're our best bet for today's lynch.

The only way the smiley could be fake is if I was 'complaining' in the first place. The smiley as evidence is circumstantial, and dosen't prove anything. I'm quite offended you think I'd be low enough to complain about the setup if I was losing.

[Xdaamno]

The

only

time I see no-explanation votes is random voting or trying to act cool. Psssh

I'll assume the only reason for your vote is to keep me a L-1...

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Or scum piling on I guess, but that's beside the point, and makes you look just as bad if true >.>

[Xdaamno]

If vanilla is all you've got for us, then I'll be hammering shortly.

Bullshit. If a random guys claimed vanilla and everyone had a neutral opinion of him, he'd actually be more likely to be vanilla (Since there's usually more vanilla townies than scum. Even if this isn't always the case, he's still more likely to be vanilla). As a result, my vanilla claim shouldn't be used as a defense for me I agree, but using it as a scumtell or a reason to lynch is ridiculous.

[Xdaamno]

Perhaps it's just a gut feeling at this point, but I'm not convinced in any way Yogurt is scum. He's just lurking or making useless posts.

Which... is a scum tell

[Xdaamno]

Clarification:

(Since there's usually more vanilla townies than scum. Even if this isn't always the case, he's still more likely to be vanilla)

He's more likely to be vanilla because we don't actually know the scum/town ratio and the fact most games have more vanilla than scum anyway... if that makes sense.

[Xdaamno]

Vote: Xdaamno

That puts one more until we find out about my theory.

FOS: Adam

What, L-1 for... absolutely no stated reason? (You didn't mention pressure, you just mentioned 'putting one more vote on' as the entire explanation.)

[Xdaamno]

That isn't consistent with what you've been saying so far. You don't seem to have been pushing my lynch at all, but rather butting in with small points, and now out of nowhere you cast the second-to-last-vote and wanting someone to hammer?

It's quite obvious many of the players here are lynching for the sake of lynching, or they're scum, but I can't find anyway to defend myself against that (Actually I can't find anything at all to defend myself against, because all the recent arguments are 'OK let's lynch Xdaamno' or 'this could be been scum doing x' from my eyes).

[Xdaamno]

I disagree because if people are bandwagoning enough to get the person to claim they will most likely not have a neutral opinion. A vanilla claim does not help that persons case, in fact it hurts because people start to think "At most we are losing a vanilla townie, we could do much worse."

If claiming vanilla townie hurts me case, why do you go and lynch half the friggin town? Whether or not you lose a power role isn't a bigger facter than whether or not you put yourself into lylo (I think we're in that situation now.)

My lynch

does not

make sense. You are proposing that I'm scum, and have no safe claims in a game ran by a respected member of the site with all the townies in the All-Star game. That is just flat-out impossible however you look at it. I'd find the theory that one member of the town side is not in the game more likely than the theory that Thok provided no safe claims in a game like this.

So, I can't see any reasons apart from


I'm a vanilla townie

and

I have a different character to you guys


So since I've irrefutably defeated both of those, you're going to leave me alone, right? Probably not.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

Although I must admit I'm infinitely interested to see if he's scum which would basically prove the theory.

Unfortunatly, I can't defend myself against this, but it proves what a large mess you'll be in after my lynch. Possibly in lylo, a debunked theory and a crap's worth of Daywhateveritis to go on.


And for all we know, Inhim and Yoghurt could be townies with a non-All-Star role too.

[Xdaamno]

Well, if he's mafia and I wake up dead, then that means I won't be waking up.

What the hell are you doing now, writing random poetry?

Because that was a shoddy attempt

[Xdaamno]

Heh. Good game, everyone ^.^