Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[YagamiLight]

Well, to start the game how about I

vote: Guardian

for being 5th on the list.
That's my favorite number .

[YagamiLight]

Hey guys! It's been a month but I still get really excited at the start of games . I hope this one is enjoyable for everyone!

The games I have been in all are really active and got out of the random stages early... I take complete credit for this . Let's hope that happens here, too.

Voting for MeMe is tempting as in my opinion her name just begs to be voted for, but I wouldn't want to start a wagon on the likely best player if she is town .

Also, if I was into random OMGUSing, I would vote YagamiLight. I am not though - sorry for taking your number!

YogurtBandit raises a very good question, Streeflo, how is YB's random vote at all good content and worthy of switching a random vote?

vote: Streeflo

seems as good a place as any to start.

Come on people, let's find the scum .

Yay he said sorry for taking my number... Your forgiven.

unvote

Now my next vote wont be random, when I decide who to vote for.

[YagamiLight]

Now getting serious...
Nanook In post 27 you said you weren't voting on only Guadian's logic, but your own detective work(though in 28 you say not at all on his logic). Can you explain why you think Streeflo is scummy, as I don't see any reason.

[YagamiLight]

Anyone notice anything? Mostly I just see a bunch of noise.

I just notice that Nekka's the only one not to vote, so yeah, a bunch of noise.

Seems like you're getting a bit desperate.

I dunno about the rest of you, but so far Nanook seems like the scummiest player in the game.

I think we might want to get more talking out of everyone before we decide anything. I don't really think aynone looks much more or less scummy then anyone else (except me of course ).

[YagamiLight]

I never used the exact words "If I were mafia" just so you know. The lines you refer to are more of a reiteration of what Guardian said, but coming from me.

I made a mistake by exposing the cop, but honestly it's not something that I would do as scum, but instead keep to myself until the night hit.

So if you were scum you wouldn't out the cop, you would wait until night to wack him. That is the counter-factual I was referring to. It does meet the common definition of WIFOM.

Call it what you'd like, but I'm not taking back what I had said. I just want you to know that not all "WIFOM" is a scum tell, just so you know. I didn't come out of no where and say that, it was reiterating Guardian's words saying that town wouldn't point that out.

Trying to make myself look good here.

Any others have any comments on my obviously dumb move that I made?

Dumb move, you mean the cop thing right? Then I have a comment.

To me it seems to me that your move makes you seem less suspicious because like you had said, scum would probably try to defend him today to remove a someone else, and out the cop tonight. Also, by announcing, like you said, it gives the doc the name of the cop to protect, if there is a doc. We don't know for sure there is one.

He could be scum bread crumbing to defend himself. We don't know for sure he is cop since he doesn't have any proof, and the only way we could obtain that is by investigating someone, and then we lynch him and find the investigation accurate.

[YagamiLight]

Sorry for double post, but I forgot my conclusion, which is that we can neither really say he is scummy or not just from this. If he ends up with more Scum tells then this could be used against him as him trying to prepare a defense, but he could also be telling the truth.

[YagamiLight]

I was a fool. Guardian may be a cop exposed by Nanook who might be playing badly. Streeflo and I gave Nanook a hard time. YagamiLight affects an impartial perspective.

I normally sound impartial because I look at the possibbilities I can see that seem most likley, but personally I'm seeing this as Guardian probably is cop, and Nanook is the one I"m looking at. I know I said scum would probably wait, but another possibbility is that he wants us to think he is townie by saying that he wouldn't do this if he were scum.

*Shiver* This is scary.. We do not know if there is an Sk or not...

There is 3 mafia though, it says that on the first post.

I think we probably have no SK and it's probably like the C9 setup.

[YagamiLight]

One FINALDIPEEDAPEEDOSEY one... (lol) I don't see any hidden Docs

Neither do I, but the purpose of breadcrumbing is to hide it for later when needed.
I think this is probably like a c9 setup like I said earlier, and we have 12 people. 3 are scum, so there are 9 townies. We have a pretty good chance that there is a doc out there listening, but if we don't then the cop will probably be NK'ed tonight or the next.

[YagamiLight]

ChaosOmega has posted twice for a total for three words. "Vote Nekka-Lucifer" in post #19 and "Random" in post 21.

WTF!

Vote:ChaosOmega for the obvious reason.

He hasn't voted much, but I don't think that warrants any votes, just a prod which the mod said he would, and intense questioning of some kind.

[YagamiLight]

I knew what breadcrumbing was my first game. I joined the 29th of April, almost a month after Gaurdian, so I don't find it odd that Gaurdian would know since he's had a month more than me. I think I would go with b for your poll.

[YagamiLight]

Sorry for not being able to get on today until now, and making it so long, but lots to go through.

@Adel: About your new idea...

Maybe you can have two votes Here is another crazy idea I just thought of: In addition to or regular vote in the regular format we also post VigKill: Player ZZZZZ and un:Vigkill. Based on the games I've read, 50-75% of these games have a vig, but they usually don't do much good, killing townies or not killing at all.

I think this idea is a win-win. We get more information on voting and the relationships between players for later analysis even if there isn't a vig. If there is a vig, and if he follows the vote, it will be nearly as good as the town having two lynches a day or the mafia only being able to kill every other night. It will totally skew the odds in a pro-town direction.

The vigkill vote could come in a conditional form, like I vote for nanook, if nanook is proved town then I vigkill vote chaos omega, but if he is proved scum I vigkill vote guardian.

I think this idea is gets a warmer reception than my last big idea

The thing is a vig should be able to tell who everyone thinks should be lynched already based on their posts, so it wouldn't change much as the vig still would decide on his own, like you said in your post to Guardian when he dismissed it. Also a mafia roleblocker, in most games they target a person to roleblock, so they would have to know who the vig is. Personally I find you very pro-town because you keep suggesting ideas like this and keep us thinking, regardless of what I think of them. Though I would like to know your answer to this...

Adel, your last two posts have been town like. I was going to mention that the first one was good when I responded to it, but I forgot to. The only bad thing about it is that you called my reasons OMGUSy, when I really have put some thought into them; earlier you said you respected my FOS, now you are calling it OMGUSy? What happened that made my reasons get bad?

Also, you thing about not noticing me, I get that in RL too people say they never notice me come or go unless I make sure they do.

@ChaosOmega: ... Nothing much to say here except that you should post more, though I probably should too.

@DogMom: Like Guardian I would also like you to answer Nanook's questions...

So you believe that either Guardian or I are scum? Do you think it be possible that we're both town?

@Erotomachia: Hasn't really said much to comment on, but hey Eroto, I mentioned oyur name at least .

@Guardian: You probably shouldn't have mentioned the YB being cop thing, because know the mafia has two possible cop NK's unless one of you is scum. Also whether we have two docs or not wouldn't matter because they wouldn't know who the other was voting for and could protect the same cop. Also you say he claimed when he never had, just offered the probability at the time. Also seeing Adel's theories as scummy just seems wrong to me because it seems like he is just trying to help get thoughts flowing. Here...

And now the fun starts... I thought there was a possibility that YB was going to claim cop back when he suggested that there are both two docs and two cops.

If you thought he was gonna claim cop, why would you vote for him?

Good question, I thought someone might bring it up. I had two reasons:
Firstly, I was not sure if he was going to claim it, or was actually just thinking about claiming it and testing it with the two cop two doc thing. I actually wanted to get a wagon on him, because in other games when he was wagoned he let his alignment slip, and if he claimed anything but cop I would have been almost sure that he was a mafia thinking about fake claiming cop but then deciding not to.
Secondly, even though he has claimed cop, I am not sure that I buy his cop claim.

To be honest, his was not the most convincing or direct claim I have ever seen, and like I said (and maybe this is a bad read on my part, as I have not had it tested yet) I always feel that someone is scummy if they say that they are completely willing to get lynched or killed for the good of the cause - especially if that person is a power role. I think town players should always say that they are a bad lynch, as it is, again in my opinion, almost always better for the town to give up on lynching a scummy townie in favor of trying to find scum.

Adel, keep the pbpa's coming. Fair warning, I may later go back and pick them for Adel scum tells, but as I said, I think the more townies post the more obvious it becomes that they are townie... And the more scum post, the more likely it becomes that they will slip up. So yeah, at first glance they seem like very decent pbpa, and definitely keep them going! One thing I would request of you, is that after putting all of that effort into doing a pbpa, that you put a bit more detailed summary for any of the players who you find particularly scummy

I emphasized the important thing, because he never actually claimed, just looked like he was thinking about it. Also, he was willing to die because if he got everyone thinking you were scummy, but was lynched instead, then you would probably be next.

@MeMe: For you I was wondering why you voted N-L.

@NanookTheWolf: Really all I can say is you look very pro-town to me after outing Guardian even if it wasn't a good thing, because like was said many times already, scum would probably save him for night.

@Nanosauromo: Just as DogMom said about you and CO you should both post more.

@Nekka-Lucifer: Again, proabaly should post more.

@Streeflo: Brings up a lot of questions that I like. good content.

@YogurtBandit: Last but not least, seems the most cop like and pro-town between him and Guardian... just ggut feeling really. Also about what you said about 2 docs

YB's claim brings this to light. For example, say we decide that any potential doc will target me tonight, and I will investigate YB, and he will investigate me. That means that if YB is town he is likely dead tonight, because the scum will know that he is not protected. I would get an almost useless investigation, and a cop would be dead. If YB is mafia, he and his buddies can try and influence the vote and get him doc protected instead so that they can kill me.

Hah! Im not investigating you! Im investigating someone else, some one I think is Scummy.I do think you are, but I also think you are Cop, So I'll save that one for later.
I guess I am Dead tonight. However, If I get the doc on my side you're going to accuse me of being scum so I guess Im definetly dead UNLESS there are two docs.

Even if there are two docs, it is still likely only one of you is protected, because they wouldn't know who's protecting who unless at least one claims and says his target.

Based on all this my current LoS from most scummy to least is:
Adel
NanookTheWolf
YogurtBandit
Streeflo
Guardian
Erotomachia
MeMe
ChaosOmega, Nanosauromo, Nekka-Lucifer
DogMom


Well, that about covers my current thoughts , I know I do the thing were I say two opposites, because I think about all possibilities, and begin second guessing, though as more context comes I'll be doing that less... I think anyways.

[YagamiLight]

yeah, my list is upside down, but also Dogmom was supposed to be just under MeMe with that one. Not really an excuse, but I think I was tired.

[YagamiLight]

ok guys. first off-Hi.
Im reading through the game now. Up until Page 3, i wholeheartedly agree with where the majority of the suspicion is. However i REALLY dislike Nanook's post 62.
I mean, lets say he genuinely noticed that Guardian was hinting cop-something FAR from obvious in his posts. it could easily be a 1 off coincidence as far as he knew. But lets say, it WAS a genuine townie play.
WHY THE HELL WOULD HE BE DIRECTING THE SCUM TO A POTENTIAL COP!?!?
Thats role-fishing to the absolute extreme.
If Nanook genuinely thought that Guardian was soft-claiming Cop, he would keep it quiet. i mean, the odds of scum softclaiming cop at this point are FAR slimmer than him being the actual cop. Him calling it suspicious is totally ridiculous.

THEN, perhaps even more surprising, Guardian doesnt get mad about this. He actually declares that Nanook is probably protown, by trying to out the cop. His point is valid and as such i also find it hard to believe that Nanook-scum would make this suspicion so obvious, UNLESS they were BOTH scumbuddies.

It sounds odd that 2 scumbuddies would out themselves that early, but the whole convo strikes me as odd. I could easily see scum doing such a performance, in order for 1 to make himself an accepted cop.

Im still rereading, ill add my thoughts as i come to points of interest.

BM

You know, I was just rethinking this, and the only possible benefit for this that I see is that it might make the revealer seem less scummy because of the thought that the scum could just pm it at night. Also it could insure to scum that more town would leave the cop alone and linch a different townie so the scum could NK the claimed cop that night and are sure to get two townies day/night 1.

[YagamiLight]

unvote: Battle Mage
vote: Nanosauromo

Do you mind saying why? not once did you ever vote Nanos before unless I missed something. I would understand just unvoting Nekka/BM since it seems your vote on him was a pressure vote.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP: Oh and

FoS MeMe

for now

[YagamiLight]

Still looks like noise, but someone else might notice something.

[YagamiLight]

You'll see what I was trying to collect votes for in a couple of hours.

Oh really, and you cant tell us now?

fos:Adel

I think the graphic was the reason.

[YagamiLight]

But, I'll repeat what I said when I got "whyed" for my vote on N-L (which you seem to understand

now

but, apparently, completely confused you before): why not let the votee take care of himself? Why does a second vote on a player concern you so much that you need to dissect it before the votee even

registers

it?

I just took the N-L thing as Nanook put it...

I believe you've taken Meme's joke seriously .. If I'm right, I think she meant she doesn't have to choose between Nekka and Lucifer, she can just vote for Nekka-Lucifer. As for why she did, well your on your own to find that one out.

Obviously, by your post, I missed something, probably for both this and the N-L thing. So, I think I'll give our whole game a good once over.

[YagamiLight]

I claimed because there was a bandwagon on me.

You say here that you claimed on prupose, but on page 7 post 159 you say...

Well, I was planning on claiming later, but I guess I kind of did.<snip>

I'm surprised no one else noticed this, given that he is changeing his story from saying, "well I didn't really mean to tell you guys that," to, "yeah, I did that because of the band wagon on me."

[YagamiLight]

So I'm scum for pointing out a contradiction? which you did again here...

Good catch!

How did of a contradiction do you think it is?

I think it lends more weight to the earlier theory (and I can't remember who the credit goes to for this- Guardian?) that YB made a fake-claim to confuse the doctor and draw protection off of Guardian. Lies are harder to keep track of than truth.

I'm not convinced just by this yet.

Can I make a suggestion, and get a fair hearing for it? Can we all brainstorm the best case against YB? I'm not proposing a bandwagon, just a cooperative collection of the evidence against him? I've never voted for him, nor have I been very suspicious of him, but I have could easily missed something more damning. Is there anything else?

If there isn't, then that one contradiction of his isn't much worse than my "do something scummy" line.

Oh how nice, Adel is congratulating her Scum Buddy. Ithink you two are scum. You can bet my investigation is going to be on you. Think. Just think.

YL- that is not what I said.

I said that at first I didnt mean to claim, I meant to destroy Guardians claim, but It turned into a claim

.

You once again state you didn't claim on purpose in my emphasis there, while a couple posts ago you said

I claimed because there was a bandwagon on me.

Which indicates you did it on purpose. Now it seems like you can't decide which it was.

[YagamiLight]

It seems to me that he got overly defensive on my pointing out the contradiction, immediatly saying thatI must be scum for it. The thing is, it is more than a simple mistake going from saying you did not mean to claim to saying you claimed because of a bandwagon.

[YagamiLight]

ebwodp
in short I just want to hear his explanation for the contradiction now.

[YagamiLight]

Still waiting to hear from YB. I did a search, and he's been active on other games. Would you like to respond to what I've said YB?

[YagamiLight]

I'm sorry, thought it was clear, but what I had wanted was a comment from him about the contradictions and why I must be scum for pointing them out.

[YagamiLight]

I am really beginning to think that YB is scum faking, and that we are in a one cop game. His wavering back and forth, his reasons for claiming, his self-contradictions, and backtracking all make me think he is uncofident scum. That being said, even if I thought he was by far the most scummy player (which I do not), it seems like it would possibly

still

be a bad idea to lynch him for the sole reason that there is some small potential that he is a second cop. <snip>

I completly agree with this including the part about not lynching him yet, but I still would like him to at least explain why he said I was scum for pointing them out.

[YagamiLight]

Where is WIFOM in Aristotle's

Organon

? Did you have some advanced coursework that presented WIFOM as a topic? No, you read about it on a wiki, or saw it used as a counter argument in a game.

Anyway, what I did is an example of deductive reasoning:

1. Good scum

may

try to stay hidden by playing as moderately as possible, and not dropping any scum tells. (Major premise)
2. YL is playing as moderately as possible, and is not dropping any scum tells. (Minor premise)
3. Therefore YL

may

be scum.

If you want to attack my argument, attack either the major or the minor premise. Discarding my argument as being "too townie" or "WIFOM" is sloppy thinking.

And, to be fair, I asked YL to start taking risks, to stop being so careful and moderate in his posts. That way he would be more likely to make more mistakes. If he is scum, my assumption is that his mistakes would be greater. Either way, I wanted him to take more actions for later analysis.

Well, it seems to me that townie wouldn't want to drop any scum tells either so that they aren't lynched by the rest of the town. I'm honestly not trying to be careful in my posts, it's just the way I am, the thing is there's no proof of that since I'm so new.

[YagamiLight]

I would also love to hear BM's response to MeMe, and would still like YB to answer my questions

I'm sorry, thought it was clear, but what I had wanted was a comment from him about the contradictions and why I must be scum for pointing them out.

especially since its been almost 2 days since his last post here, and he has been active in other games.

[YagamiLight]

My self quote, they have been on here so often now. I wanted a comment on your contradiction. My main question, though, is why you said i was scum for pointing them out?

[YagamiLight]

Good catch!

How did of a contradiction do you think it is?

I think it lends more weight to the earlier theory (and I can't remember who the credit goes to for this- Guardian?) that YB made a fake-claim to confuse the doctor and draw protection off of Guardian. Lies are harder to keep track of than truth.

I'm not convinced just by this yet.

Can I make a suggestion, and get a fair hearing for it? Can we all brainstorm the best case against YB? I'm not proposing a bandwagon, just a cooperative collection of the evidence against him? I've never voted for him, nor have I been very suspicious of him, but I have could easily missed something more damning. Is there anything else?

If there isn't, then that one contradiction of his isn't much worse than my "do something scummy" line.

Oh how nice, Adel is congratulating her Scum Buddy. Ithink you two are scum. You can bet my investigation is going to be on you. Think. Just think.

YL- that is not what I said. I said that at first I didnt mean to claim, I meant to destroy Guardians claim, but It turned into a claim.

You only announce I'm scum after I bring up the contradiction, making me Adel's scum buddy.

[YagamiLight]

I have to agree with Guardian, I don't think his lurking has anything to do with being scum but just that he is in exams. I do agree with MeMe, however in the 30 min thing. I think BM should give this game possible 30 min a day, because he still says he has to finish rereading, and because of the approaching deadline.

[YagamiLight]

About BM saying MeMe misinterpreted him...

I've just looked at his most recent posts elsewhere, though, and here's a quick list where it looks like he's not getting heat (of course, I'm just skimming), which is at odds with his claim that he's only contributing because "lazy townies have started a 'Lynch-BM Fest'" and in which he seems to be contributing more than his quote "im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see," implies. <snip>

I'm assuming you mean here, and for the first part where MeMe says, "which is at odds with his claim that he's only contributing because "lazy townies have started a 'Lynch-BM Fest'"

actually, its only 4 i think. probably because lazy townies have started a "Lynch-BM Fest" Laughing <snip>

You did indeed say here that there were only four games for you to link due to the Lynch-BM fest.
And for MeMe saying, "in which he seems to be contributing more than his quote "im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see," implies." You say that here...

oh and btw, im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see, in contrast to games which require rereads, and thus i have not been awesomely active here. <snip>

[YagamiLight]

Adel, with that post i was refering to where BM talked about MeMe misinterpreting him, first I assumed where he meant the misinterpret happened, as it was the only place I saw that he might have meant, then I tried to go through and show that it wasn't wrong, and that what MeMe said BM had said had actually been said.

[YagamiLight]

Like MeMe just said, I don't think she did misrepresent what BM said.

[YagamiLight]

It seems obvious to me that MeMe wasn't misrepresenting him. So I would have to say the only possible explanation would be that he did so on purpose, as he didn't show where the misrepresentation happened, so one would have to try guessing on where he meant.
Based on that I think I would like BM to confirm that the post i picked was the one he meant, and why he says MeMe misrepresented him.

[YagamiLight]

<snip>
@Yagami-actually, you too have made a mistake. :p
You are referring to the right bit, but you (and probably MeMe was aswell) are taking it in the wrong context. Yes, i did so those words in that order, but the meaning is completely different. If you think it matters atall, ill break it down for you later. i guess that proves i should use commas more...
<snip>

Could you break it down, because it does matter to me at least. I would like to see what you actually meant. Also the thing about you being scum was my attempt to try and make sense out of you saying MeMe misinterpreted you after I did the same way. It does not matter since I misinterpreted.

[YagamiLight]

I don't see how I was deliberatly unclear on the BM-MeMe issue, I just made the same mistake as MeMe. Also on the YB thing I was going to bring that up tomorrow because I didn't like the answer, but was going to let it go since everyone seemed to agree that we should give both of you a day.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP
That was too Guardians post, just noticed people posted while i was typing.

[YagamiLight]

Yeah, YB then Guardian.

[YagamiLight]

Now that we've seen the results and given YB a day, I want Yb to discuss something with me.

My self quote, they have been on here so often now. I wanted a comment on your contradiction. My main question, though, is why you said i was scum for pointing them out?

Simple mistake. and I dont recall saying you were scum for THAT reason.

First off, I don't buy that it was a simple mistake, it was a major mistake if an accident, because like you said yourself, you claimed to disprove Gaurdian, but then you also said you claimed because you were being bandwagoned. Yeah, your right you never did say I was scum for that reason, you just say I'm Adel's scumbuddy and give no reason. Also, you kept dodging my questions as if I would just forget it. In the first case I'm a little understanding, because I didn't repost them in that post, but then I reposted and constantly kept reposting them, they were on page 14, page 15, page 16 where I asked and Guardian posted them, and page 18.

[YagamiLight]

Guardian, how do you get if Adel is town you, YB and MeMe are pretty much confirmed? Seems to me that if Adel comes up scum I would be worry that you might be scum claiming insane or paranoid, YB I would feel is a little less scummy because I feel one of you is a cop, and MeMe I would probably feel is less scummy due to a higher possibility of YB being the cop.

[YagamiLight]

Guardian, how do you get if Adel is town you, YB and MeMe are pretty much confirmed? Seems to me that if Adel comes up scum I would be worry that you might be scum claiming insane or paranoid, YB I would feel is a little less scummy because I feel one of you is a cop, and MeMe I would probably feel is less scummy due to a higher possibility of YB being the cop.

If Adel is town then I am obviously paranoid or insane. If I am not sane, then I would feel almost certain that we do have two cops (because just one paranoid/insane cop doesn't make sense) and that YB is the other cop. If YB is the other cop, and I am not sane, then he definitely would be sane. If he is sane, then MeMe would definitely be town, something that I am not feeling right now but something that I would have to logically conclude.

If Adel is scum then I am a sane cop, and YB is either an insane/naive cop or is scum. If he is insane, MeMe would be scum. If he is scum... well he's scum.

Right now, I feel Adel is scum, YB is scum, and MeMe is iffy; I don't think YB is a second cop, and I think I am sane, and I think Adel is scum.

How I see it, if Adel is town it is still possible that you are scum claiming to be a paranoid or insane cop, and for the other 2 you based it off you being innocent, so just that would make it so they aren't confirmed.

[YagamiLight]

Guardian is right, if you, Adel, where to come up town, hge may not be confirmed but the other 2 would, because if he is town then he is paranoid/insane, so YB would almost positivley be the sane cop, and if he was scum, then YB would be the true cop.

[YagamiLight]

Earlier you were telling me do something scummy or you are scum, based on that it seems like you a little scummy behavior is okay, but a lot or none is scummy itself, and based on this you could be trying to do enough scummy behavior to seem like you are an active townie.

[YagamiLight]

My point was that like you said there that you think it's okay to be a little scummy if you are town, and therefore, your post about why would you look scummy if you were scum is to look lie your not trying to avoid it.

[YagamiLight]

Adel looks extremely protown to me, but I believe Guardian is a sane cop, so I think I believe Guardian's results. I'm not sure I want to vote him yet though.

[YagamiLight]

I think Guardian is sane because I think there is only one cop, and highly doubt that with one cop he would be otherwise.

[YagamiLight]

If that is true I would think that YB and MeMe would be clear, and YB could investigate Guardian to see if he is town or scum, but thats only if it is true.

[YagamiLight]

no sense of humor with those two.

Have a good weekend everyone,

hopefully you won't lynch me so I'll have a chance to continue this on Monday.

^^^WIFOM.

What part of this is wifom? .. I think I'm still confused to what exactly the definition of wifom is .. hmm.

I think that says it loud and clear.

I don't see this a s WIFOM, just seems to me he hopes we don't lynch him uintil after he gets back so he can defend himself.

[YagamiLight]

I don't know if it would take all that much of lucky guessing to be truthful, I mean BM was in the hot seat for the most part right before the night struck, and the fact that he didn't participate to most of the players liking before deadline could warrant a few wanting him killed ... It's a stretch by far, but I wouldn't completely rule it out .. I don't know how new Adel is to the game and such, but I give the guy a lot of credit. He's got some skill, IMO.

QFT
It seems like it wouldn't take to much to figure out who was most likely vig killed and not mafia killed.

[YagamiLight]

No, I"m just saying that it seems easy to guess who the vig targeted... I thought you were someone else at first seeing your new avatar.

[YagamiLight]

First, I would like to clarify for those who don't understand the string what to do so they can see it themselves. You enter 455 where it says password, and the string into encrypted text and click unsecure.
Now, it seems to me that CO's three posts before the one Adel mentioned(other than where he says he wants YB to post results first) are fairly well thought out, unlike Adel, but, we had already discussed outing with Nanook and all agreed it was a bad thing because it reveals them to the scum. Due to this I would agree with Streeflo and Adel. On Adel wanting to vig kill Nanook, like Guardian said we should wait and see how scummy they look, and remember we can only loose 3 more townies.
I would like to say that I'm still not 100% sure Adel is vig, as he could have said he was vig and vig killed either of the 2 (though BM seems more likely vig kill than Nanos), and also looking again at the beginning post and the kills from last night, I'm also not convinced there is not an SK.
Like I said earlier, in my eyes if Adel is pro-town that nearly confirms YB and MeMe, but not so much Guardian, because he could Either be scum faking insane/paranoid cop, or actually cop.

[YagamiLight]

Ecto was shot. BM was strangled.

It's the other way around.

Theo's post doesn't actually say who had what happen to them. It just says one was shot and one was strangled.

[YagamiLight]

I was always looking at this one.

A night to forget for the residents of Theoville. Cracks of thunder and death all around. The town awake to see two dead bodies, one shot in the head, the other strangled painfully to death.

Battle Mage, Vanilla Townie, Town Aligned
Erotomachia, Vanilla Townie, Town Aligned

9 of you remain, it's 5 to secure a lynch.

Deadline is Tuesday 3rd July, 03.00 GMT.

But based on that, I"m not so sure BM is vig, because that leads me to believe mafia killed BM as they killed the mayor and both died of gun shots.

[YagamiLight]

EBWODP
I meant not sure Adel is vig.

[YagamiLight]

No, I believe there is an SK in our midst, someone else is vig and killed Eroto, or Adel is vig, but lied about killing BM when he actually killed Eroto. I"m going to go reread the first post again to see how likely an SK is.

[YagamiLight]

All the stuff I"ve been missing lately, I would probably be slamming my head into the wall.

[YagamiLight]

Well, the way I see it, now that I think I haven't missed anything, Is that one way or another Adel is lying to us. Either about being vig or about who he targeted because if the mayor was shot then the mafia killed BM who was shot, and therefore the vig killed Eroto. Based on this, I think that Adel is probably scum, and Guardian is a sane cop, and if that's true then I think YB may also have fake claimed, but that I will determine later for the time being.

[YagamiLight]

Well, the way I see it, now that I think I haven't missed anything, Is that one way or another Adel is lying to us. Either about being vig or about who he targeted because if the mayor was shot then the mafia killed BM who was shot, and therefore the vig killed Eroto. Based on this, I think that Adel is probably scum, and Guardian is a sane cop, and if that's true then I think YB may also have fake claimed, but that I will determine later for the time being.

So you're saying MeMe is scum?

No, it is possible that if you are scum, you could have said a townie was townie. But in light of Theo's post, I think I believe Adel for the time being as the vig because no one counter claimed. Based on this i believe you and MeMe are fairly cleared because this would mean Guardian is either insane/paranoid cop or scum, and I see MeMe's logic, and will

FOS Guardian

.

[YagamiLight]

Not that I want to be lynched or anything, but you didn't include me on there YB.

[YagamiLight]

MeMe: I would like to see more of your case against Guardian, while there are still days to go before the deadline. I see something there, but I am not nearly convinced, but I am open to the idea.

I am not so sure about Streeflo's quick FOS following MeMe's vote on Guardian.
What convinced you so easily Streeflo? YL? What about MeMe's logic appeals to you?

My shortlist is CO, Nanook, Streeflo, and Jayln. My hnch is that there are only two scum on that list. But I am very very weary of my own ability to identify scum... out of my nearly 500 posts I have yet to have my vote on scum at the end of a day- not once so far in my mafia career.

Mod: can we get a votecount please?

Actually I meant for mine to be an IGMEOY (can't always remember that one) because he is either cop or scum, though I disagree about him being useless cop, as he may be insane where we would now its the opposite. Also, who do you think is the third scum then? It seems to me that MeMe and YB are fairly clear if you are vig (which I think) so that would leave me or Guardian for the third scum.

[YagamiLight]

I"m with guardiab on this one, CO seems to be using it as a tactic, where as Nanook, thats just how he is.

[YagamiLight]

Well, CO tried to out Adel, and used one of his most analytical posts to do so. Later he says he knows it was scummy. He posted less frequently then Nanos, and has three posts of content prior to trying to out Adel, his posts were 9, 10, and 11. He didn't post for 5 days between his Adel post and Adel's claim. He stops lurking when people begun to focus on him, and begins to post more on who he thinks is suspicious.
Nanos (Who I meant) on the other hand posted consistently the same through out, just doing a few lines per post and not to often. A little interesting fact, Nanos died D1, but has posted more than CO who's still alive.

[YagamiLight]

Alright, I haven't been able to read the thread in its entirety here, but basically I'm getting that Adel is the vig which confirms YB as cop and Meme as town .. right?

It does not necessaruly confirm meme, can't forget the possibility of a godfather.

I've had a feeling about Guardian from the beginning and I think I'm going to

Vote: Guardian

.. I could be on the wrong side of the town, but my thoughts from earlier and new thoughts from others combined makes this a better choice, IMO. Plus, between the two wagons, I've really got nothing against CO, so Guardian will be my choice.

I think CO seems scummyer for trying to out Adel. I get you doing it because you could have been rusty like he said, but we had talked long anfd hard about it after you and it seemed unanimous that it was a bad idea, but come Day 2 he does it anyhow. I think CO is the lynch today, but I want to make sure no one needs more discussion like YB asked.

[YagamiLight]

Any reason why I shouldn't hammer CO?

[YagamiLight]

I don't know if changing my vote was the correct decision. The anticipation is killing me.

With 8 votes cast at least two scum are voting. My theory is that CO didn't get bussed by his scum mates because he is not scum. Guardian may not be scum either, but I was worried about two realistic possibilities:

1. YL is scum, and would drop the hammer on CO once he found the good excuse he was looking for, like a looming deadline.
2. Anyone else (besides me of course) who switched from one bandwagon to another is likely scum.

Nanook will be my NK. Nanook's name was in the encrypted breadcrumb Guardian left a couple of pages ago. Guardian as townie had Nanook as a prime suspect, and Guardian as scum would target a scumbuddy next. Either way Nanook will die tonight.

I wasn't waiting for an excuse, I wanted to make sure that we were done with the conversation and confident in a CO lynch. I had already said I thought he was scummy.

[YagamiLight]

Adel, whats the number you used that mad Nanook appear in his encrypted text? and how did you discover it?

[YagamiLight]

There's a capital S.

[YagamiLight]

Um, our cop had innocent. Guardian said guilty.

[YagamiLight]

Actually, I protected Guardian Night one. Also, Theo same as Guardian said, I loved having the deadlines, and great night scenes.