Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Nazarene]

/confirm

Hi mollie!
Hi bulba!
Hi hawk!
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I think the last line of that post should make it clear to you.

Meanwhile I'm just wondering if this dgb townread on bulba is legit and if dgb has a history with bulba. Can you enlighten me, dgb?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

VOTE: mollie

Probably more interesting than bulba
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Nullest shade of null.

[Nazarene]

Nullest shade of null.

And this is because...?

Vote: Nazarene

This is because bulba is being pretentious. He has started out every game I played with him like this, so I don't attach any value judgment to that.

Why do you suspect me?

For trying too hard and then getting defensive when called out.

See, you wanted to tell me anyway!
-Tier

[Nazarene]

VOTE: naz

Been long since I mislynched you.

Hey wassup

You surely have got an opinion on jackel's claim, haven't you?

[Nazarene]

On the fence. Probably town, because I don't understand why someone who's doing a miller gambit as scum would claim something as outlandish as 1-shot which could get him some backlash.

I'm wondering how you could have taken 32 as anything but a joke. I really am.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Right, what do you think about our thesaurus?

[Nazarene]

Our?
Mollie <3

I was gonna say our dino then realised someone else had said it and changed to thesaurus

But yeah so what do you think of that creature

what do you make of naz creatures calling bulba pretentious? I don't feel like bulba has been pretentious in this game and I am usually kind of sensitive to bulba's pretension. I feel like it is like the kind of play that people make against personality players. I don't like it.

With pretentious I mean the overly strong reads early game. Which he always does.

Hi Tier!

VOTE: shos

Don't kill Nazarene

Don't kill prohawk either!
-Tier

[Nazarene]

On the fence. Probably town, because I don't understand why someone who's doing a miller gambit as scum would claim something as outlandish as 1-shot which could get him some backlash.

What makes it better/worse than claiming a full miller?

The fact that a 1-shot modifier is unheard of for a miller and I know a lot of scum who wouldn't dare to claim such a role, because of the feared 'lol that ain't a real role quicklynch this shit'.
But it does sound like something I'd fakeclaim *shrug*

This is because bulba is being pretentious. He has started out every game I played with him like this, so I don't attach any value judgment to that.

Every game you two've played together he calls you scum with someone? I suppose by that point it's an in-joke of sorts, but are you certain that you can't glean anything alignment indicative from that (i.e. differences between Bulbascum and bulbatown, phrasing, etc.)?

No, he does this to someone, iirc I have never been the target of it.

What I did notice, especially in bulba's last scumgame, is that he tends to get completely caught up in his heated argument with someone and not do anything else. This sometimes is with the same person he attacks early in the game. So I'm not letting him get away with that.

But yeah, I've only played once with townbulba.

Shos, please wait uuntil day 2 to lynch us, for old times's sake. Also, stop avoiding my question.

VOTE: shos
Counterwagon ahoy
-Tier

[Nazarene]

shos I'm winning

you never even stood a chance anyway
-Tier

<<< Did he dance the dance, though? >>>

[Nazarene]

@Mod: voided voted shos

<<< This is what I get for making VCs on a different computer. In my notepad on my normal computer, I noted the change. On the different computer, in my mind I had still made the change even though thanks to being on that computer I obviously didn't, thus the error. It has now been fixed. >>>

VOTE: voidedmafia
Have you ever played with shos before?

Oh, that cracked me up, sorry, haha


I think 1 shot miller is bullshit and probably scum

Why? What do you think of my own thoughts on the subject?

Also why the f do you get to post from your own account?
-Tier

<<< Because the mod is biased enough to love MS and give him hearts.
...In other words, moderator oversight. I'll scold him in the future if it continues. >>>

[Nazarene]

Bbmolla your claim reads so fake.

Why did you make your initial post saying dgb is scum?

-Tier

[Nazarene]

DGB, why is bulba town?

[Nazarene]

@BBMolla: Are you being serious?

If you are, let's not focus on that today and leave DGB to any investigative roles. I'd have a hard time believing there's a 1-shot miller without a cop.

Just read the thread.

-A

[Nazarene]

Oh yeah, this Head quoted Doyou because this Head wanted to ask him why he would think for a second that a Miller required a Cop.

-A

[Nazarene]

Also, this game is a hot-ass mess so I need to re-read and discuss reads with TS but that will not happen until tomorrow.

-A

[Nazarene]

All of his posts from the beginning? A complete lack of scumtells? Being forward and pro-active?

What do you consider scumtells for bulba?

VOTE: voidedmafia
Have you ever played with shos before?

A.) Why the vote? Or rather, why did you vote me?

B.) Maybe once or twice before I took a break. I'm not an extensive user of meta in the first place (note: not to be misconstrued as never using meta, just that I don't use meta as my primary scum/townhunting means), so are you suggesting that I'm going about this wrong?

I voted you because your vote looked extremely opportunistic.
What I want to say about shos is that he always posts fluff early game, at least as town, as scum maybe a bit less, but still. So I didn't take that as alignment-indicative. Fluffing early game is generally not done too much by scum. At least it isn't a scumtell that works and I think you ought to know that.

oh, forgot this,

VOTE: sonic boom

im prob going to sleep. i might be around

why is sonic boom scum?

jackal shos prohawk

why shos?

Vote: Jackel

Hey look! another opportunist vote!

Well shit.ika is town. Nobody make L-1 votes as long as he is alive.

why is he?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I think the votes on jackel are disproportionate to how scummy he is. He's been fencesitting a little and hasn't really said a lot, but that's it. All 3 current votes are shit. Can someone voting him explain why they think he is so scummy?

Prohawk, are you gonna be all dense day 1 again?

Shos, how is bulba playing to his scum meta?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

ikr

but what else am i supposed to do with you

[Nazarene]

THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME

VOTE: voided mafia

Reasons? Is this related to their most recent spat or because he is not trying to get you lynched, which...I do not even know what to do with that reasoning.

@Nazarene: Because in a bastard game, 1-shot miller is basically VT and doesn't affect the game at all. That seems pretty dumb to add a modifier like that to a VT is all.

Why? The game is bastard. The point is to mess with expectations; the only way to avoid problems is to avoid expectations.

Currently townreading Doyouthinkhesaurus and Bulbazak. Scumreading some peeps but need to confer with my other head before we make a serious case.


-A

[Nazarene]

Meanwhile, love me

OK

[disagree; while I see how this can be true, Jackal's claim may have gotten him policy lynched, and its oddness is so great that it literally draws all attention to him. therefore, I am 100% convinced he is town.

This is the part where I should ask you why you voted him but then I realised
You are shos
And town, hi.

[

Hey look! another opportunist vote!

Look, if you're going to rail on me because my votes come after 2-3 others, find another line to push me for because this is utter shit. If this is an incorrect summary of your reason(s), then explain.

Yeah, no. I've stated that I've found both jackal and shos votes to be awful and you've done both. On top of that, they're just a jump on a wagon. But that's not the main reason I'm voting you, that'd be the former coupled with your seemingly useful game start that really had nothing relevant in it.

mollie is town.

UNVOTE:

I suppose I'll have to do this with all of your reads. Why?

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes. Also, up until his vote, the general vote pool has been spread thin. No-real-wagons. Could be trying to start something.

Meeeeeeehhhhhhh

[

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes.

I'm actually starting to get the opposite.

Did you maybe, once, draw town?

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes. Also, up until his vote, the general vote pool has been spread thin. No-real-wagons. Could be trying to start something.

this is legit

VOTE: shos

VOTE: shos

No this is not legit. Explain your vote.

Is titus in there already?

Because Sonic and Titus make themselves known a lot more when they're town, and they're kinda coasting in this game.

I was vla hosting a meet.

Riiight, but you can play now!

AEGOR QT NAOOOO
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I forgot about that game.
You were town in See minus minus too.

But still you draw scum too often when I play with you.

This makes me think. You have never given me vibes like you're doing here. This is the first time I've not seen you pick fights and I'm reading that as town, but I don't know if I should.

[Nazarene]

Does this mean you're not done with quotewalls, then? :/

[Nazarene]

shos wagon is not good. More later.

-A

[Nazarene]

Megapost up later today/tonight.

<<< Though such notifications are appreciated by the mod, I'm just giving you all a friendly reminder that posts like this will not reset your activity timer, since they're prod dodges. >>>

[Nazarene]

Ika - Null (chewing the fat and thinking. Cause nothing springs out as to fall on either side of the spectrum imo)
Sonic Boom - Town/Null (purely gut on this one)

Explain in more detail both of these. Also explain how gut compels you to read the heads differently.

@guille:

Do you mind explaining your reads on ika and SonicBoom, given that you clearly have way more conviction than almost anyone else? The SB one is obvious given recent posts, but I would like to know your basis when you entered the game.

@Bulb:

Do you actually believe the claim? What reasons do you have for voting EF given that posts 448 ff. seem to suggest an associative tell between them; or should I take the vote as an accusation that EF is whiteknighting the SB slot? I am a bit confused about your thought process.

I am really not sure whether the cop claim is enough to ignore OMGUS nonsense, whatever this is, and this. Having played with MS, I have experienced slews of random posts, but the most recent ones are just scummy.

VOTE: SonicBoom

My other head is more apprehensive because of the claim, but I am simply not buying it.

-A

[Nazarene]

okay. so there isn't a cc to sonic boom so whatever.

We prolly won't have one today anyway so

I like voided wagon still
VOTE: voided

I'm telling aegor that although voting sonic is very understandable it's a dumb thing to do right now

Prohawk, let's talk a bit. Why exactly do you feel this is not townshos but instead scumshos imitating his town meta? Subquestions: how familiar are you with shos's meta? and How much variation is there usually in his towngame? and Have you seen.hm manipulate his meta before?

Also, what do you think of the current dino wagon?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Prohawk, let's talk a bit. Why exactly do you feel this is not townshos but instead scumshos imitating his town meta? Subquestions: how familiar are you with shos's meta? and How much variation is there usually in his towngame? and Have you seen.hm manipulate his meta before?

Also, what do you think of the current dino wagon?

PROHAWK LOOK

-Tier

[Nazarene]

I've got my eye on you, Sonic. Don't think I won't investigate further down the line if you start to smell fishy to me.

What the hell is this? Does he not smell fishy to you now?

Unvote

Vote Doyouthinkhesaurus

Bulba, are you serious? While Dino's case was hardly damning, pointing out fluff (a claim that you have labeled as vague, which it is clearly not) constitutes a case in itself. Even though you think the case is crap, how can you honestly maintain that Dino is attempting to start what you have called a difficult wagon at the end of Day 1? That makes no sense, and this Head fails to see how you can believe his ISO as a whole is scum-motivated.

-A

[Nazarene]

We have actually scum candidates. DGB, calm down. Bulba, back the eff of the moronic policy lynch idea.

-A

[Nazarene]

I'm a bit disconnected atm but I want to say that those voting voided get cookies while those voting prohawk get mean looks
Guille not decided yet.

But yeah, vote voided.

Bulba, give me a SUMMARY of your point on mathdino.
Three lines of text.
You can do it.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

This Head is very disappointed with this deadline wagon. This Head hates all deadline wagons.

This Head is even more disappointed that obv-scum SB is not being lynched because he claimed a PR, which is setting a precedent that makes it easy for scum to get through Day 1 intact.

Nevertheless, the Heads want a lynch, but this Head at least will be on before deadline, so the Heads currently have no interest in changing our vote.

Vote voided.

-A

[Nazarene]

You know, if Mollie, DGB, and others think that they need a flip and are starting to worry about my alignment, they could always just lynch me.

Stop this nonsense. Also stop trying to start deadline wagons; it is counterproductive and pissing this Head off when we already have like three or four claims on the table.

I think this game is close to being solved via PoE. I currently have it narrowed down to the group of {Mollie, DGB, Shos, Ika, Dino, Voided}.

Dino is definitely scum

, and I'm leaning town on Mollie and Voided. DGB has thrown me off with her atypical behavior. Shos and Ika are good places to look going forward. Everyone else should not be touched.

Bulb, that read is whack. How can you possibly construe scum motivation from Dino's ISO?

This Head can never read DGB and generally want her lynched just because, but until SB is dead, there is no point.

mollie is very solidly town.

UNVOTE:


-A

[Nazarene]

Give this Head like three minutes to decide what to do with the most recent cop claim.

[Nazarene]

Did you not read my response to your other head, or are you two just not communicating?

I have read all your responses. We have been communicating, but not yet today, so it seems I have final vote authority.

Regardless, your reasons are not answers to my questions. I asked what scum motivation you found; you explained your case by pointing out that his posts were not well-reasoned. Incompetence is not the same thing as scumminess.

-A

[Nazarene]

VOTE: Voidedmafia


828 is fundamentally correct and at the worst we net a scum in SB, who should have been lynched anyway.


-A

[Nazarene]

I pointed out that he's not looking for scum motivation or intent and that his posts are created to look good, rather than scumhunt.

I am having major problems reconciling the idea that scum-Dino is manipulative enough to lead the charge against someone via a case, no matter how bad, but not self-aware enough to have sensible posting.

Again, I fail to see why my reading of town-with-good-intent-and-bad-execution is less plausible than your scumread.


-A

[Nazarene]

828 is fundamentally correct and at the worst we net a scum in SB, who should have been lynched anyway.

Again, are you aware that this game may have multiple cops?

Possible =/= likely. I would be more than willing to bet my Head and my other Head that if you flip cop, SB will flip scum. The point is that I am 60-40 against believing your claim and 100-0 against believing SB's. The fact that multiple cops may exist is irrelevant if I happen not to believe the claims in the first place. And my other Head is pretty sure you are scum. I would rather have SB's head in the noose. Especially given that we replaced a claimed cop with a claimed cop.

-A

[Nazarene]

I love how Aegor yelled at me for thinking about a policy lynch and then proceeds to pl Voided at deadline.

PL? What are you talking about? TS has been voting Void for a pretty long time because of a scumread. This Head is simply unwilling to unvote.

P-edit: Yes, because scum obviously can't make or fake cases.

You are better than this.

-A

[Nazarene]

Aegor, what makes you seriously think that scum can't present a case on someone? I'm curious. Do you think all scum players just sit on their hands and hope something happens? Because you seem to be presenting all scum as drooling morons instead of players who have to try to manipulate the town into lynching each other. How did you think that happened? The magical mafia fairy?

This Head

is presenting all scum as drooling morons? You are the one asserting that something attributable to incompetence is due to being scum.

-A

[Nazarene]

And if these PR claims are not from scum (which they are), then GG scum.

-A

[Nazarene]

No, I'm saying that Dino-scum pushed a player for an easy non-reason and that his "case" contained absolutely zero analysis. All it did was look convincing, but upon closer inspection, there was no substance. At no point have I suggested that such a move is incompetent. In fact, it'd be the opposite. You're the one who's saying that Dino is not skilled enough to fake a case.

This Head

is suggesting that it is indicative of incompetence. This Head has not reached this conclusion by asserting that Dino is not skilled enough to make a case. This Head has used Dino's ISO as justification for that assertion. You are confusing the chain of reasoning.

This discussion will not be productive; we should stop.

[Nazarene]

Hi guys

I think it's probably a good idea to lynch sonicboom today. I'm not reading him as town for his claim (hell, it doesn't even match up with voided's cop role, not even talking about his townread copping :/) and he's playing the 'can't lynch me I claimed cop'-card. Which makes no sense.

Do you have anything to back your claim up, sonic?

To do list:
- read bulba's mathdino argument
- form opinion on ika/mollie/EF

-Tier

[Nazarene]

Sure. Who's scum and why aren't you voting em?

[Nazarene]

Also your ISO tells me very little, are you gonna participate more today?

[Nazarene]

That doesn't answer my question, ika. Why aren't you votng your scumreads?

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.

Okay I googled pretacetor and literally the only results I got were your posts on MS :/ what do you mean?

hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

Come on, go further...

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

Titus ain't even playing.

-Tier

[Nazarene]

VOTE: Sonic Boom

I do not know why this day has not ended yet.

-A

[Nazarene]

Because this day has just started. There's a lot that still needs to be taken care of.

Hardly. The only acceptable outcome to this day is a SonicBoom lynch; I fail to see why the inevitable should be postponed. The only result is that I had to slog through inane walls (you) and typo-rife rants (ika).

@ika:

Get a hold on yourself. Are you seriously calling guille scum based on setup spec in an unbalanced game?

@Eddie:

Do you mind filling in your inexplicably missing reads?


Do we have enough potential hammer votes on SB? I need to know who needs convincing.


-A

[Nazarene]

Catching up tomorrow probz
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Catching up tomorrow probz
-Tier

VOTE: nazerene

U DON'T BELIEVE I CATCHUP NOW GET REKT

Based on our collective targets, it looks like this lynch is gonna be between ProHawk, Fenix, and Voided. Would be cool with lynching either of the first 2. Voided as a whole reads town to me at the moment.

Why did voided look town to you?

Naz - I am not really a big meta player, I use it more for gut than anything. That said, off the top of my head I have one scum game and one town game. His town game was super hyper-active and interactive, his scum game was less-so. I don't have a super amount of time or info to delve into manipulation of meta or not, its just what it came across to me as.

So you're saying you only have a vague idea of what both playstyles look like and yet you are pretty sure he is imitating his towngame? How does something come across as meta manipulation in general?

I'm here, just moping around, LOL.

you're getting annoying.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

The bulba-dino fight looks like TvT to me (fitting smiley! TvT! ) so you guys should cut it out.

why?

2. The below is ProHawk's 605:

Spoiler: 605

For my wall, I am going to start back to where things get interesting... around claim time.

Right after the claim -->

Bulb unvotes Sonic.
Nazarine votes Sonic.
Shos unvotes Sonic and calls Nazarine scum for voting Sonic.
DGB unvotes Sonic.
Eddie votes Sonic.
DGB joins the "Voting Sonic is ScumClaiming" clan.
Dino defends Sonic, the "un-cc'd cop".
DGB backs him up.
Dino votes Fenix for voting Sonic.
Guille talks about needing a counter-claim.

So here is what caught my eye (since I didn't explain myself properly the first time apparently). This is a closed game. We don't know what roles are. Speculation abounds, and likelihood/probability/percentages help with trying to figure stuff out. I get that. But when Dino said something about the cop being un-counter-claimed, that drew red flags up for me.

Because:

A) Why would a cop counter-claim even if he were in the game?
B) We don't know if there are multiple cops in the setup, which would also invalidate that insinuation (that another cop claim would be COUNTER to the original claim)
C) This game is listed as unbalanced/bastard/whatever, which would fly in the face of logic when trying to solve the game with claims and counter-claims. Red-Herring roles?

What this looks like to me, especially on a re-read of the whole situation:

Scum getting run up. The go-to-claim to fish for a potentially devastating role is cop. So he claims cop and runs with it. His buddies are trying to help the fishing along by

calling for a counter claim

. OR

In the event that Sonic actually is a Cop:

Scum are also capitalizing on the "lets find other cops and call for counter-claims"

Let it be known that all of

Dino, DGB, and Guille

want a counter claim to Sonic's claim.

I underlined the misreps for you. He came up with a conspiracy theory in which 3 people are asking for a CC, which is simply not true. This is misrepping. Not ONCE did I say that I was calling for a counterclaim today.

do you think prohawk is scum for it?

Blegh I'm going through your ISO and see PbPa yuck
What is your current read on prohawk and why is sonic boom scummier? (with a little explanation please)

[Nazarene]

Prohawk

I still don't see it. He has been scum-hunting early. Albeit in one-liners but he was questioning Dino, Shos behavior, He noticed sho's Jackal thing, post 373.

once he gets into the more than 3 sentence posts is that I feel that he is making wrong decisions. Wanting a counterclaim being a scum tell assumes that all town Remember that this is a close setup, are aware of optimal play, and are actually avoiding to ask for a CC. DGB and Dino niether implicitly or explicitly asked for a CC. I might have unintentionally asked for it in my wording, but it honestly wasn't my intention. My intention is clear in my post.

The concept of CC is actually a good concern. I think Scum would not point it out. Especially since said reasoning would not get any of those mentioned Lynched for that.

Then he goes into defense. Which could come from town or Scum.

I still think that Prohawk is town. Mostly from 373 and the CC thing.

Voided

I see no real scum reads the entirety of the day. He posts lots and comments lots but has no commitment. I am concerned for this: Post 216 says Ika is not town. Then in post 360 he says that I am wrong in thinking that ika is scum.

he started to do a bit of hunting when the pressure came but then reverted back to his previous self.

ika

Motivation behind posts. OK. Reading. Yeah, I see it. Basically a subtle scumhunting keeping to himself his reads and reasons. If that is his town meta, then I can understand it. But consider that this doesn't mean that he is town, but rather that this play is not indicative of him being scum.

unvote ika

More following.

This thing is probably town

I see no real scum reads the entirety of the day. He posts lots and comments lots but has no commitment. I am concerned for this: Post 216 says Ika is not town. Then in post 360 he says that I am wrong in thinking that ika is scum.

not town=/= scum.

Also, re-read my reads again and you'll know I have scum reads: Sonic, you, maybe Fenix, and was-so-at-the-time-but-not-so-much-at-deadline ProHawk.

P-EDIT: You're expecting another wagon to spring up in less than...what, 8 hours? It's possible, but not likely.

Istott, get back on Guille. I honestly don't think we have the time to bring up another wagon that's not already up near being lynched.

jesus christ srsly how this thing still alive?

+1

Let's run someone else up so they can claim watcher or tracker.

Mollie is likely scum, this is the second time she ignored my posts.

idgi, explain

[Nazarene]

Stop rolefishing DGB.

@Mollie: We have 2 on Ika so far. With you, it's 3. ProHawk, Sonic, and Guille will join, making it 6. I think we could get that last vote easily.

Also your "rolefishing" accusations are frivolous. We are one hour from deadline.

And you want to force a claim. I don't think I'm far off if a claim is your primary concern.

This line of reasoning is dumb. You should want a claim from the biggest wagon when you're close to deadline.

There is no way this playlist is as dumb as we are playing.

?

No, I'm saying that Dino-scum pushed a player for an easy non-reason and that his "case" contained absolutely zero analysis. All it did was look convincing, but upon closer inspection, there was no substance. At no point have I suggested that such a move is incompetent. In fact, it'd be the opposite. You're the one who's saying that Dino is not skilled enough to fake a case.

This Head

is suggesting that it is indicative of incompetence. This Head has not reached this conclusion by asserting that Dino is not skilled enough to make a case. This Head has used Dino's ISO as justification for that assertion. You are confusing the chain of reasoning.

This discussion will not be productive; we should stop.

I do not even know what you guys are talking about. :/

[Nazarene]

Mastina you didn't put a sane modifier into my role pm???!! What is the meaning of this??!!

Just kidding I know the exact meaning of this

Copped mollie and got a guilty, so I'm very very likely not sane

I hate this. I can't believe scum is stupid enough to do this.

Has anybody heard of a scum jailkeeper? I have!

VOTE: guille

is there anything to your reads this game or are you just gonna coast on your cop claim?

VOTE: istott

?

Vote Sonic Boom

Scum.

Is this all you're gonna say this day?

[Nazarene]

That doesn't answer my question, ika. Why aren't you votng your scumreads?

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.

Okay I googled pretacetor and literally the only results I got were your posts on MS :/ what do you mean?

hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

Come on, go further...

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

Titus ain't even playing.

-Tier

i told you i want shny hammer. i will get to it when i feel like it. something is pining me and i want to see how it unfolds.

its guts, what more do you want? give me something to work.

I want you to tell me exactly what about prohawk you find scummy. What posts trigger a gutscum reaction?

you really think im trying to avoid it?

you seriously think that?

seriously?

here let me answer you then on the verybegining:

Let's start with how lazy they are, how you repeatedly try to stay hands off while lamenting that you can't engage with anyone (or dowright refusing to engage)

tbh nobody has engadde me in the manner that works with me. most o the day was circular arguments about thing that dont intrest me. you should know that i like to look at obsure angles of things and the oddities, yesterday i did reach out to you but you seems to have disregarded it, if you like i can even quote myself where i did but you seemed to ahve not done so

approach me with a theory of something. not some attack. i just reply in kind.

---

that you have no real townreads on anyone (and your actual townreads can be PL'd at a moment's notice),

everyone is PL material, no matter what. you go a problem with it, thats all on your falut

----


and how your Sonic Boom read is BS, since it revolves around how you always scumread Titus, even though Titus hasn't been posting in this game.

she has a few though but as of late been afk. you seem to be missing the fact also i do keep tabs on her via her sister. if i needed to get tius for some cirtical emargency i can contact her sister.

----

It all seems rather contrived to me.

you want to know why? i will give you a hint: maybe its b/c i see a lot more then you think.

maybe its bc eddie is soft CC sonic right now
maybe its bc prohawk could be some PR that i dont want to be outing for the world to knwo
maybe its bc the more someon says "i want to die" the less likely its gonna happen
maybe its b/c im running a shitty ass fucking slayers gambit.

i work on a diffrent plane where i need someone to give me an idea, a conspericy theroy almost. thats how i work.

ika seems genuine
But the PR fishing is awful, stop it.

[Nazarene]

Eddie, give me a reads list while you're here.

Town

Bulba
Me
Our Jailkeeper (name escapes me right now)

Null
ika
DGB

Scum
Sonic

Working on my project for college. Gonna dive back into that cause I've been at it for about 8+ hours now and I need to go back because I keep getting ideas and remembering things. You give me colors my good man XD

ok, so...
Eddie isn't doing shit and hops on the most likely lynch
bulb asks for a readslist
eddie immediately gives a naked readslist.
yeah....

eddie what is wrong with u

Literally half the players are missing from his "reads" list.

What's wrong with Eddie is that he got a scum role PM.

This player gets figured out by day 3

What do you mean? Why don't you want to figure her out now?

Nazarene - He would be in my townreads, but he is voting me currently. Why would he vote an obvtown claimed cop?

lol

This Sonic Boom wagon is rubbish.

why?

[Nazarene]

talking to aegor now

I want eddiefenix lynch I think and I'm not too certain about metal sonic anymore.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

sigh

[Nazarene]

me

, sheeping

you

?

[Nazarene]

will post tomorrow promise.


-A

<<< As a reminder, just so you know, this type of posting still counts as prod-dodging. It's not a problem this time, but you should be aware of it. >>>

[Nazarene]

I could see myself voting EF over sonic boom but I'm definitely not townreading SB and I don't see him living both today and tomorrow.
So I'd rather get it over with.

Plus, aegor seems hell-bent on lynching SB.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

sick posting tomorrow

-A

[Nazarene]

Both of them have been online since I outed them.

VOTE: Nazarene

CALM YER TITS I'M HERE

I don't know what type of sorry reaction test you're running, but I know that I'm not claiming unless we're massclaiming, in which case I have no trouble with going first.

I doubt Aegor thinks otherwise.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

We think that Guille is town. I've heard much 'but he can be scum jailkeeper' but no reasons, really.

Dino, can you explain why he isn't, according to you?
Mollie, same question.

And I'm going to change my previous statement:

if

we're massclaiming, we claim second after prohawk.

P-edit: not doing that.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Scum probably is within [dino;EF;hawk] with a slight chance of [mollie;dgb].

EF is where I want to be voting unless dino is going to keep up his act.

VOTE: EF

[Nazarene]

I want you to state that this is not an act and that if you do not provide a fullclaim afterwards with a valid reason for your guilty, you're scum.

[Nazarene]

State it.

[Nazarene]

Without the second fucking disclaimer

You're not getting me lynched without a valid reason for your guilty

[Nazarene]

Or conditional whatever that shit is called

[Nazarene]

Look, buddy, my role PM says town. You don't feel like scum suiciding (nor do I understamd why they would), but you ARE saying that you have definite information that I'm scum, which I'm just fucking not.

That's my perspective.

Since we're doing massclaim, prohawk goes before us.

[Nazarene]

And before you say I'm stalling, I am an investigative role with a non-definitive guilty on prohawk. It might be definitive, however, depending on what he claims.

We're nothing else than an investigative role and that should probably tell you enough for you to reveal what you're doing.

[Nazarene]

If you're now going to back out of this, you're dying 100%.

[Nazarene]

You've asked the mod if millers show up guilty?

[Nazarene]

Well, I'm not a gunsmith, so.

[Nazarene]

I don't understand this. I don't get the feeling you're scum despite the fact that you're claiming to have a gunsmith guilty on me.

[Nazarene]

No, but I do believe I'm insane. Insane people probably don't get guns.

[Nazarene]

Mastin also said it's possible that someone without a gun could show as having a gun but I assume can't explain further.

Wait.

Could you maybe explain further?

[Nazarene]

Well, we've seen a mafia lawyer flip. But does that frame for guns?

@mod: do insane investigatives show up as guilty to a gunsmith?
Does the mafia lawyer reverse results for gunsmith as well?

<<< As above, answered in post 1341. >>>

[Nazarene]

I doubt there's more than one lawyer, but if you can come up with anything else that explains your innocence, feel free.

Well, my role PM does. I really can only speculate about what has happened tonight. Biggest chance is that you're scum, but my mind is making me believe you aren't.

What I know is true, is that this town has a shitton of power.

Cop, doctor, gunsmith, our role. And that's not even everything, probably. That is not offset by

just

a mafia framer.

I know that this is called unbalanced mafia, but still.
I think massclaim should help.

[Nazarene]

@1314: you know as well as I do that when I flip town you're going to get your ass lynched, no questions asked.

Problem is I think you are town
But I'm not letting you get away ever with faking a guilty on me as scum

[Nazarene]

However, seeing the votes, prohawk does look shitty.

Prohawk, please claim as soon as possible.

[Nazarene]

I don't think the one shenaniganing would state it. But whatever, fine with the claim order as it is.
I asked you a question about guille earlier.

[Nazarene]

Please tell us if your role pm states if you're confirmed sane.

One scenario I'm thinking of if you being insane and lawyer targeting bulba N1.

reminder to all the people out there:
We have a non-definitive guilty result on prohawk. He needs to claim before we fullclaim. Our result can be incrimnating depending on what he claims. If we claim first, he can easily cater his claim to ours.

So prohawk, stop stalling and claim.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Aaand you have a probably guilty on me... yet you are probably insane... which means that you got an innocent on me, but are second guessing it because you think you might be insane. Yet you vote EF. This makes loads of sense, also you have a gun. Or were seen with a gun, or were framed with a gun.

stop discrediting me.
I have a result on you that equates to a guilty, but it doesn't necessarily have to be, depending on what your role is.
Like a vig to a gunsmith. But here the range of roles that equates the vig is rather large; I cannot tell you my role before you claim because you could just cater your claim to it. I'm also not going to claim my role before you because there is quite a chance that your fakeclaim as scum will be foiled by our investigation report.

Apart from that, I think EF has been scummier than you.

And you don't like my voting, but don't explain what you don't like about it.

That you immediately vote dino after he's stating he's going to 1v1 with us. In general, faking a guilty as scum for no reason is losing play. I don't see why you wouldn't first attempt to wait and see what it actually was.

Do you still think dino is scum?

[Nazarene]

Can someone please explain the thing that's going on between guille and EF?
Guille claims to have jailkept eddie, while eddie claims to have got a guilty on sonic that night? right?

Eddie, why did you only vote for guille as soon as he stated he jailkept you to block you, instead of right after when he claimed that, because you knew it was a lie?

If I'm getting it right, either of them is lying. But I'm thinking I'm missing something now because if that were the case everyone would be all over that now, right...

Also ika, could your role have messed up dino's investigation on us?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Do you still think dino is scum?

Play wise, yes.

I don't understand this game plan by scum:
Let's 1v1 for Nazarene because he's such a threat to us that I don't mind dying for it

And then reassessing the situation and not actually hard pushing for my lynch. It just doesn't make sense. It makes it harder for him to fakeclaim something and doesn't actually give him towncred.

I have trouble seeing him as scum. Can you comment on this?

I cannot tell you my role before you claim because you could just cater your claim to it.

Then you would have to freaking try to lynch me because I would be an idiot to claim my role just to "clear" myself from a "maybe" guilty.

P-EDIT: What did I miss that you are practically an IC but yet didn't die over Bulba..... right.

Why are you objecting to massclaim? I thought we were doing massclaim.

I also don't really feel your mollie points. She's scum for avoiding you? And you hope to convince people with that?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I mean you could argue it gives him towncred because I townread him for it but that is not how it works

[Nazarene]

Oh lol I thought more thread had past than it did.

Nazarene, is there any possibility that you're not sane?

No, but I do believe I'm insane. Insane people probably don't get guns.

Basically, the only way we can figure this shit out is massclaim. I hoped ProHawk would be willing to cooperate after being threatened to lynch but it looks like he's just being an idiot here. Nazarene won't claim until ProHawk does, however, and ika needs to be able to claim AFTER Fenix who needs to be able to claim AFTER Nazarene, so this entire chain needs to start at ProHawk.
tl;dr PROHAWK STOP BEING A DUMBASS
MOLLIE AND I CAN'T BOTH BE SCUM
LISTEN TO ONE OF US IF YOU WON'T LISTEN TO BOTH
I do want to note that I really appreciate the fact that ProHawk repeatedly says anyone trying to solve the game with balance is scum, but then tries to solve the Nazarene guilty claim with balance. At the moment I'm leaning ProHawk scum and shenanigans on Nazarene but it's possible ProHawk is being total VI.

Regardless, I do NOT want a lynch today until massclaim happens. We need to coordinate night actions, a la Dethy, to solve this.

I agree with massclaim, if I haven't said that already. How exactly is prohawk trying to solve this by balance?

[Nazarene]

I don't really have a guilty, just a way of determining if prohawk's claim is fake. So I want him to claim.

I don't get why you're claiming to be such an outlandish role that we'll autolynch you for it, why not just try and claim? You're probably getting lynched without the claim anyway.

[Nazarene]

Jeez, finally.

We're a tracker.
Our role pm states that our results may not be accurate and that we may instead reverse if our target is targeting someone or not.

We tracked bulb N1 to the kill. This means that we are the insane variant unless severe shenanigans.
We tracked prohawk N2 to nowhere, so we knew he performed a targeting night action. This checks out with his claim, although it does not confirm his claim.

Ef and ika next?

Prohawk, I wanna have a talk with you when I have time which will probably be tomorrow or the day after.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Still found some time today.

Prohawk, I've only played with you once before, in austin powers I believe. I connected to your thoughts very strongly; we were completely in the same frame of mind at some point, even though we had our differences earlier in the game. On this site, there are just two or three other players with whom I've connected like that.

That is in very, very sharp contrast to this game. I could not follow any push you made (except for the day 2 dino push a little), your day 1 push on shos, your push today on mollie and dino. And you're not trying very hard to explain it either. You don't answer posts directed at you, you don't elaborate, you don't try to convince others.

Superficially, your play looks much like it was in austin powers. In-depth, I don't feel the same way.

Why is all of this?

Somewhat more than 'I don't play the same every game' would be appreciated.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I'm going to correct you Naz, feel free to use this as your conf. guilty.

I didn't and couldn't use an action N2 because I used it N1. So no, it really doesn't check out with YOUR insane claim. So either severe shenanigans, or scum. So if you are actually town, I hope you realize how dumb it was to get people (namely me) to claim in the name of SOLVING this game. As you can see... severe shenanigans (as advertised in the freaking TITLE of the game)

Tier, in direct response to you - It's been a combination of not having enough time and spreading myself too thin getting into too many games which doesn't allow me to provide the depth and keeps me superficial.

So you're claiming to be one-shot?
That means I indeed have a conflicting result on you.

VOTE: prohawk
I am NOT saying my result definitely means you're scum, but I'm going to park until input from Aegor and I would definitely be okay with your lynch.

I want you to explain your fricking pushes, prohawk.
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I see a lot of questions about our claim, night targets and behaviour wrt our role.

Our role explicitly stated we could be insane. Thus, we decided to track our strongest townread, bulba, for two reasons:
1. We were sure he was town; if we'd see an incriminating result, we could be pretty sure we were insane and vice versa.
2. He'd probably be nightkilled soon and confirm if our results were sane or insane.

Our results did not influence our day 2 play regarding bulba in any way; it was way more likely that we were insane than that he was scum making the kill.
We didn't even think about crumbing, but it would probably have been a bad move. If we had been nightkilled before bulba, flipped tracker and tracked bulba (to the kill)? If anyone found out about our crumb, bulba would claim his role (miller) and definitely get lynched. So no.

That's actually a really good point about Nazarene. Insane tracker doesn't seem like it has much point in the first place. Am STILL at a loss as to why Naz didn't just ask ProHawk if he targeted anyone last night rather than asking for fullclaim. Will vote them after they come back and defend (and also after mastin gives another VC).

I thought about doing that. I wanted to do that. But then I'd confirm my role to him, just like when I would claim before him.
I said I was insane before and if I'd asked him who he targeted, he'd know I was a tracker (or a watcher, but probably tracker).
What's more, he probably wouldn't even claim who he targeted in the first place.

[Nazarene]

VOTE: Nazarene

hi

When did Prohawks say he was one shot?
If he takes two nights to investigate, it means he can investigate tonight.

wait...that's not how a delayed cop works.

[Nazarene]

@mod: would a delayed cop take two nights to investigate, or could he investigate every night and then get his results one night later?

<<< Depends on the wording in the initial PM. There is no universal standard. If the delayed cop is told they can investigate every night and will receive results the night after, then there you go. If the delayed cop is told they cannot investigate the night after starting their investigation, then there you go. Though both are slightly different variants on the cop role, they share the same role name. So it boils down to mod and setup preference. >>>

[Nazarene]

.
2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - Claimed possibly insane tracker. N1 found bulba targeting shos. N2 tracked Prohawk to no one.

2- Does this mean that the tracker gets the opposite result, or that the result is random. If it is the first, then if Nazarene flips town, Prohawk is guaranteed to be scum.

That said, Nazarene's role and result are not consistent with their posting. Considering that they townread Bulb, still targeted him, and even finding out that they had a damning result on Bulb, they went out for Sonic's Lynch without even prodding bulb for anything that might hint his result.

I think My vote is fine where it is.

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

We targeted bulb BECAUSE we townread him. But well, see my post a few posts above this one.

[Nazarene]

I'm thinking about eschewing hunting by roles entirely in favour of hunting by those that try to take advantage of them.
WHICH WOULD MEAN I'D LINE UP WITH PROHAWK WHÏCH IS SHITTY

Guille would fall into that category.
VOTE: guille
consider this my new park. I like prohawk somewhat better after these last 3 pages. I still want explanations for his pushes.

[Nazarene]

BUT DAMMIT I HAVE A FRICKING GUILTY ON THAT PROHAWK FUCKER

[Nazarene]

sorry been busy the last few days. Will post tomorrow.

[Nazarene]

-A

[Nazarene]

Also I have no idea what is going on so that post may include catch-up-y things.

[Nazarene]

Hi fellas!

Don't hammer just yet, I'll effort tomorrow. Aegor is still MIA (ill, or something?)
-Tier

[Nazarene]

Ugg, this isn't a town reaction to being at L-1.

Hi sorry busy days

[Nazarene]

no i mean the fact that nazarene asked for a fullclaim, which was detrimental, rather than a simple question of whether or not he visited someone last night. also the fact that he chose the easiest lynch target to do so, and in particular my top scumread when i'm the one with a guilty on naz.

easy diversion, essentially, and good way for scum to get a PR claim out of naz's lynch.

you know I actually don't push prohawk, right?

And I'd choose the person who was most likely to be pushed to claim the following day? hell no, I'd choose something like mollie or ika.
-tier

[Nazarene]

I lied, I'm doing shit today.

I'm starting to get itchy about dino.

Dino, I want to talk with you about your confbiasing. I have provided evidence of that and of fitting evidence to reads below.
Why do you do this?
What is your current read on me based on?
Why do you include ika in your scumreads?

Spoiler: thinks we are town

I dont know the mechanics of it. Its possible theres a gun framer or some shit.

UNVOTE:
Need to read thread, on phone

Spoiler: finds evidence for us being town

We think that Guille is town. I've heard much 'but he can be scum jailkeeper' but no reasons, really.

Dino, can you explain why he isn't, according to you?
Mollie, same question.

And I'm going to change my previous statement:

if

we're massclaiming, we claim second after prohawk.

Scum probably is within [dino;EF;hawk]

with a slight chance of [mollie;dgb].

EF is where I want to be voting unless dino is going to keep up his act.

VOTE: EF

Look, buddy, my role PM says town. You don't feel like scum suiciding (nor do I understamd why they would), but you ARE saying that you have definite information that I'm scum, which I'm just fucking not.

That's my perspective.

Since we're doing massclaim, prohawk goes before us.

And before you say I'm stalling,

I am an investigative role with a non-definitive guilty on prohawk. It might be definitive, however, depending on what he claims.

We're nothing else than an investigative role and that should probably tell you enough for you to reveal what you're doing.

No, but

I do believe I'm insane.

Insane people probably don't get guns.

Ika - Null (chewing the fat and thinking. Cause nothing springs out as to fall on either side of the spectrum imo)
Sonic Boom - Town/Null (purely gut on this one)

Explain in more detail both of these. Also explain how gut compels you to read the heads differently.

@guille:

Do you mind explaining your reads on ika and SonicBoom, given that you clearly have way more conviction than almost anyone else? The SB one is obvious given recent posts, but I would like to know your basis when you entered the game.

@Bulb:

Do you actually believe the claim? What reasons do you have for voting EF given that posts 448 ff. seem to suggest an associative tell between them; or should I take the vote as an accusation that EF is whiteknighting the SB slot? I am a bit confused about your thought process.

I am really not sure whether the cop claim is enough to ignore OMGUS nonsense, whatever this is, and this. Having played with MS, I have experienced slews of random posts, but the most recent ones are just scummy.

VOTE: SonicBoom

My other head is more apprehensive because of the claim, but I am simply not buying it.

-A

This Head is very disappointed with this deadline wagon. This Head hates all deadline wagons.

This Head is even more disappointed that obv-scum SB is not being lynched because he claimed a PR, which is setting a precedent that makes it easy for scum to get through Day 1 intact.

Nevertheless, the Heads want a lynch, but this Head at least will be on before deadline, so the Heads currently have no interest in changing our vote.

Vote voided.

-A

828 is fundamentally correct and at the worst we net a scum in SB, who should have been lynched anyway.

Again, are you aware that this game may have multiple cops?

Possible =/= likely. I would be more than willing to bet my Head and my other Head that if you flip cop, SB will flip scum. The point is that I am 60-40 against believing your claim and 100-0 against believing SB's. The fact that multiple cops may exist is irrelevant if I happen not to believe the claims in the first place. And my other Head is pretty sure you are scum. I would rather have SB's head in the noose. Especially given that we replaced a claimed cop with a claimed cop.

-A

VOTE: Sonic Boom

I do not know why this day has not ended yet.

-A

I could see myself voting EF over sonic boom but I'm definitely not townreading SB and I don't see him living both today and tomorrow.
So I'd rather get it over with.

Plus, aegor seems hell-bent on lynching SB.
-Tier

If you read these, it fits very well with them being an investigative and having issues believing SB and Voided. Very very well. Especially since Sonic pretty much claimed insane cop and Nazarene believe themselves to be insane.

Spoiler: thinks hawk is scum

Why am I scum Dino? Because I won't claim?

Please outline your case.

You want me to make another case after the first one's immense popularity?

1. Before I cased it and people caught on, never have you ever produced any original content this game. I mean hell, DGB produces more substance than you do.
2. You vote me as soon as I stop voting you for bullshit reasons that Sonic later tried to state as objectively true.
3. Your first post of content (a case on my use of 'un-cc'd') was a bullshit argument about semantics to try to lynch the person with most suspicion on you. This argument is continued here which is sensationalistic and literally logically fallacious.
4. Your entire interaction with mollie is weird as hell, I can expand on this if anyone likes but this is one of my lesser points.
5. Your entire D2 play (before you said thanksgiving was giving you issues, which is cool) consisted of voting me, interacting with Sonic, and a couple questions to istott.
6. Your D3 start was so goddamn opportunistic and allowed you to coast on the fact that I said votes should be between me and Naz while once again contributing jackshit when you weren't in any danger of being lynched for it.
7. Your atrocious statement that massclaim is anti town at this stage in the game. Which you back up with a statement that, lo and behold, uses balance to make an argument (the idea that fakeclaims must be airtight).
8. A point simply because I can, but 1443 is absolute balls and is basically putting yourself on the same pedestal as the NK'd guy.
[...]
[...]
999. Nazarene has a guilty on you.
1000. You won't claim.

Your not claiming is the last reason you're scum.

Spoiler: thinks we are scum

Im bewildered as to why Naz didnt just ask Hawk if he targeted anyone or even who he targeted. I was under the impression the specific role would change the interpretation of the results.

Its Fenixs turn btw.

Spoiler: finds evidence of in our ISO of why we are scum

Spoiler: Nazarene's Bulbazak References D2

Hi guys

I think it's probably a good idea to lynch sonicboom today. I'm not reading him as town for his claim (hell, it doesn't even match up with voided's cop role, not even talking about his townread copping :/) and he's playing the 'can't lynch me I claimed cop'-card. Which makes no sense.

Do you have anything to back your claim up, sonic?

To do list:
- read bulba's mathdino argument
- form opinion on ika/mollie/EF

-Tier

The bulba-dino fight looks like TvT to me (fitting smiley! TvT! ) so you guys should cut it out.

why?

2. The below is ProHawk's 605:

For my wall, I am going to start back to where things get interesting... around claim time.

Right after the claim -->

Bulb unvotes Sonic.
Nazarine votes Sonic.
Shos unvotes Sonic and calls Nazarine scum for voting Sonic.
DGB unvotes Sonic.
Eddie votes Sonic.
DGB joins the "Voting Sonic is ScumClaiming" clan.
Dino defends Sonic, the "un-cc'd cop".
DGB backs him up.
Dino votes Fenix for voting Sonic.
Guille talks about needing a counter-claim.

So here is what caught my eye (since I didn't explain myself properly the first time apparently). This is a closed game. We don't know what roles are. Speculation abounds, and likelihood/probability/percentages help with trying to figure stuff out. I get that. But when Dino said something about the cop being un-counter-claimed, that drew red flags up for me.

Because:

A) Why would a cop counter-claim even if he were in the game?
B) We don't know if there are multiple cops in the setup, which would also invalidate that insinuation (that another cop claim would be COUNTER to the original claim)
C) This game is listed as unbalanced/bastard/whatever, which would fly in the face of logic when trying to solve the game with claims and counter-claims. Red-Herring roles?

What this looks like to me, especially on a re-read of the whole situation:

Scum getting run up. The go-to-claim to fish for a potentially devastating role is cop. So he claims cop and runs with it. His buddies are trying to help the fishing along by

calling for a counter claim

. OR

In the event that Sonic actually is a Cop:

Scum are also capitalizing on the "lets find other cops and call for counter-claims"

Let it be known that all of

Dino, DGB, and Guille

want a counter claim to Sonic's claim.

I underlined the misreps for you. He came up with a conspiracy theory in which 3 people are asking for a CC, which is simply not true. This is misrepping. Not ONCE did I say that I was calling for a counterclaim today.

do you think prohawk is scum for it?

Blegh I'm going through your ISO and see PbPa yuck
What is your current read on prohawk and why is sonic boom scummier? (with a little explanation please)

Stop rolefishing DGB.

@Mollie: We have 2 on Ika so far. With you, it's 3. ProHawk, Sonic, and Guille will join, making it 6. I think we could get that last vote easily.

Also your "rolefishing" accusations are frivolous. We are one hour from deadline.

And you want to force a claim. I don't think I'm far off if a claim is your primary concern.

This line of reasoning is dumb. You should want a claim from the biggest wagon when you're close to deadline.

There is no way this playlist is as dumb as we are playing.

?

No, I'm saying that Dino-scum pushed a player for an easy non-reason and that his "case" contained absolutely zero analysis. All it did was look convincing, but upon closer inspection, there was no substance. At no point have I suggested that such a move is incompetent. In fact, it'd be the opposite. You're the one who's saying that Dino is not skilled enough to fake a case.

This Head

is suggesting that it is indicative of incompetence. This Head has not reached this conclusion by asserting that Dino is not skilled enough to make a case. This Head has used Dino's ISO as justification for that assertion. You are confusing the chain of reasoning.

This discussion will not be productive; we should stop.

I do not even know what you guys are talking about. :/

Eddie, give me a reads list while you're here.

Town

Bulba
Me
Our Jailkeeper (name escapes me right now)

Null
ika
DGB

Scum
Sonic

Working on my project for college. Gonna dive back into that cause I've been at it for about 8+ hours now and I need to go back because I keep getting ideas and remembering things. You give me colors my good man XD

ok, so...
Eddie isn't doing shit and hops on the most likely lynch
bulb asks for a readslist
eddie immediately gives a naked readslist.
yeah....

eddie what is wrong with u

Literally half the players are missing from his "reads" list.

What's wrong with Eddie is that he got a scum role PM.

This player gets figured out by day 3

What do you mean? Why don't you want to figure her out now?

Nazarene - He would be in my townreads, but he is voting me currently. Why would he vote an obvtown claimed cop?

lol

This Sonic Boom wagon is rubbish.

why?

I ctrl+F'd 'Bulbazak' in Nazarene's ISO and got the above posts. None of them give any indication that Bulba was investigated. In fact Naz mostly ignored Bulba for D2.
Definitely leaving hard toward Naz.

FFS, FTFMe

Spoiler: (vote)

VOTE: Nazarene

-Tier

[Nazarene]

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

Well, I did, and that's why I was confused. I just checked the wiki. Insane is the opposite, all my [mafia]life I've been thinking its random result. So, I was confused because You said something that contradicted with my definition.

So basically, you can only check if someone travels or not. If this is true, then Prohawk is certainly scum.

You are abusing the claims, again.

If I flip Town (Which I am), would that guarantee that Eddie is scum?

The reason I haven't been all about Eddie is because of the potential of my power being messed with roleblockers or redirectors. What made me think of this was that Eddie claimed him not being block when I had already claimed him as my target. I doubt Scum would place themselves in a vs position this early. And your (Math) observations seem to be good.

I'm obviously in favor of resolving the Nazarene/Prohawk, but my reasoning is not only because I want to keep living, but more so that the Resolution is much more clearer than the Guille/Eddie.

This post is shit.

I think the chance of another investigation-meddling role or investigative results just being complete bullshit is much higher than a roleblocker, which completely doesn't fit with the theme.

Can you explain why you don't believe eddie is scum anymore, especially considering you thought he was scum, targeted him and he claimed a conflicting result on you? Why does that make him less of a target, instead of more?

I can think of a reason..

[Nazarene]

I think strongly prohawk is town.

He's doing a few of my 'scum never do this'-list which has never failed me as of yet.

My guilty is my strongest townread, how fucked up is that.

[Nazarene]

Dino why are you so oblivious to everything grr