Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[guille2015]

Ok, I'm here.

I have been following along a bit.

Shos is scum along with Sonic Boom and Ika (cause anybody that makes colorful list has to be scum, amiright!!)

Vote Shos

Peace

[guille2015]

but I'm right about Sonic boom and Ika right?

[guille2015]

Actually, I have seen nothing from Shos that make me think he is town. His excuse is that he has little time and stuff like that. But town players even when they have little time, actually do stuff, even if just a little.

[guille2015]

Fine Fine,
My shos explanation is Up there. I'll get into more detail in a little while.

[guille2015]

Your annoying.

Ok,

Ika posts a colorful list but has no explaination, Basically the same problem your having with me. That's not particularly a problem. However, his eventual reads least is nothing more than his opinion on how he metas the players and even with the ones that are not meta, he practically says nothing.

So after several posts He has only pushed for Sonic Boom and Has not given an explanation.

Sonic boom, has not contributed anything yet. His Jackal vote is following everybody who was wrong about Jackal then switches votes to Shos and does nothing more.

Shos basically comes down to Not doing much. And I've played with Shos and he is not Lynchbait. I either expect him to return to the game Guns a blazing with Towniness or with a crappy post with no significant contribution. L-2 says he'll do it faster.

And yes I am aware that all three of my scum reads have voiced their opinion against each other. But that's how I saw it.

[guille2015]

Yeah yeah, I know my first post sucks. Stop rubbing it in will ya!

Also, guile, I'd say uni stuff is a bit more time-intensive than most things (other than a job or project you're working on, maybe). That's not really a good reason in the first place because that only works if the lack of participation is because there is a measure of non-want there. Or, in a possibly better-worded situation, it only works if the player in question is using their "little time to play" excuse as a reason to not play, rather than as an explanation for why they're doing what little they have been.

Oh I know what it is to be busy. And I know how it is to be scum and busy vs being Town and busy. The latter is much easier. I don't understand the last part. If I understand correctly it depends on the motivation sensed in the posts? Hmmm. I'll consider it.

[guille2015]

guille, ika does that like every game. He takes the playerlist and randomly colours it however he wants and says those are his reads. It's some kind of reaction test. ika is playing EXACTLY to his town meta.

I have never played or meta Ika.

Does he do that as scum too? Cause if he doesn't then he is a terrible player.

[guille2015]

ProHawk is sooo Town.

Mastin

: Please douse me with water.

<<< Does drowning you with my modding colors count? >>>

[guille2015]

VOTE: guille

That's not going to change that i am still waiting for you to provide content.

[guille2015]

I see istott as town for now. Came in strong and gave the effort of reading through. Still needs to read the rest of the game.

Still waiting on Shos. I am anxiously waiting on how he will show up. He tried a bit earlier, but maybe he wasn't feeling it yet.

Oh, Sonic. How much I want to vote for ye! But Shos comes first. Little by little sonic is growing in scummyness. But if my memory serves correctly i've played the heads or hydra and they have played similarly. Don't recall if they were scum or not. Must check it later.

[guille2015]

You said you were going to give general impressions of this game. You have been coasting and everyone voting for you has said that you provide no content. I think you are scum because you don't provide any content, and find it hard to do so because you know/guess that everyone else is town. It has happened to me before.

Yo have said that your content is lacking and made an excuse for it. Now you did say that you have no excuse for it, and so, play with content. If I see content from you that I think is worthy, then I'll bump you up the levels.

The sad part about everything is that i don't understand why others pinned you as town during your first half of the game. I must check that.

I haven't particularly read your posts yet will do now.

[guille2015]

but at the moment the trend seems to be to call me town

I don't really see this trend. But you do make a good point in this post. I like.

[guille2015]

UNVOTE: SHOS

OK, you are off the hook for now. These last three post are completely different from your earlier posts. If you keep it up, I won't consider you scum anymore.

Place masking tape on the left side of the screen and ISO yourself. You'll see what I mean.

So, what are your thoughts on Ika and Void?

[guille2015]

jackal shos prohawk

so, At his point in the game why are these three your suspects?


At this point I am going through all your posts looking for actual content.

Ika hammers everything and its brother as town. He also always tunnels my ass.

Sonic talk to me before voting. I hate the jackal vote. Skype me.

Unvote

This is a weird post. This implies that there is contention and disagreement between the heads. For others with experience with hydras, Is public disagreement indicative of scum, town,or null.

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes. Also, up until his vote, the general vote pool has been spread thin. No-real-wagons. Could be trying to start something.

this is legit

VOTE: shos

VOTE: shos

i will find time to read this game during one of my free reading periods

right now not really

VOTE: guille

scummy and opportunistic

Ok, i might be rehashing what Shos said but your accusation is pretty much mirrored twice on these two posts.

and guille reads are bad lolol

Can you please elaborate on why my reads are bad?

Most of the rest is irrelevant or talking about how Titus hasn't shown up.

VOTE: Sonic Boom

[guille2015]

ok so i caught up but feeling lazy and tired sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

read list

1. shos - dunno, his last scum game is largly outdated, what was the case on him before? he was gambiting or some stupid shit?
2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - i have trouble reading aegor so im kinda waiting this one out. teir i have seen just be a derp
3. Voidedmafia - havent played with ever so im going to see how it unfolds
4. Sonic Boom (Metal Sonic+Titus) - its fucking titus, shes alwasy scum
5. Bulbazak - truth be told i have this huge biased with the stly he does and wil by default scumr ead it
6. EddieFenix - afk?
7. ProHawk - could be scum, i want to see how he plays out first
6. ika - not a hammer but a troll role
9. Doyouthinkhesaurus (Mathdino+blindmewithscience) - town considir it a mixture of meta and ~reasons~
10. BBmolla - scum, a major overreaction to my "first" read list
11. pirate mollie - mollie needs to talk with me, if shes known to be like me i will solve her merly by interacting
12. Jackel98 - i still dont get the case outside of "one-shot miller"
13. DrippingGoofball - im just ignoring untill further notice after bulbas agme.

This is not a reads list. This is just... statements.

[guille2015]

@Bulbazak

: Who is scum between Ika and Sonic Boom? and what are your thoughts on voided.

[guille2015]

If there is a Miller in this game then there is likely a Cop. Unless there is a counter, Sonic is not the lynch.

UNVOTE: Sonic Boom

[guille2015]

guille's 434 is pinging me. "OK, [shos is] off the hook for now... If you keep it up, I won't consider you scum anymore." Really not liking guille at this point.

You think it's scummy to change my mind?

[guille2015]

@guille: Do you mind explaining your reads on ika and SonicBoom, given that you clearly have way more conviction than almost anyone else? The SB one is obvious given recent posts, but I would like to know your basis when you entered the game.

@guille: I don't know if ika colours up reads lists like that as scum. Either way, it's a nulltell. Seems to be a personal preference for him. Why is ProHawk town?

My scum read on ika actually does not com due to the list exclusively. The List makes no sense. His later reads are not reads at all but rather comments and do not show how he actually feels about them. He is only going after SB and hasn't really delve to far from that. His reasoning for his vote is nonexistent. And the thing that I am noticing now is that after everyone has pretty much considered him void or town, he hasn't shown up.

Vote Ika

I haven't read through eddifenix. Will do that this weekend. Not much time for anything else today.

[guille2015]

The wording makes your scumread on shos seem fake. That, and telling him what to do to make him seem less scummy. It's like you're asking shos to do something that'll keep you off his wagon.

If you think that makes me scummy then there really is nothing I can say about that. I've said what I wanted from Shos since I started on his wagon. And it was for him to add content and to contribute. He did that. You can notice it in the 3 post. And if he keeps it up then it wasn't a ruse.

[guille2015]

Ok, I'm going to have to ISO prohawk without any bias. Can't do it right know.

Does anybody think Ika town? Why? I can't see town in Ika.

[guille2015]

and yes, I know the deadline is coming up. I'll get to it when my mind clears.

[guille2015]

@guille: ika's play is naturally insanely scummy as both alignments. With him you just have to look at motivations and I haven't seen much scum motivation in him this game.
Also he seems generally more logical as scum from what little I've read. Has anyone played with scum ika?

ok, there really isn't enough ika posts to check for motivation, so I need to evaluate my read.

Also, can you quote your posts on your Hydra please.

[guille2015]

My comments in Blue.

At this moment, I still feel comfortable voting prohawk. I would also be fine with Guille being lynched. These two are my main scumreads at the moment.
For Guille, take a look at this:

Fine Fine,
My shos explanation is Up there.

I'll get into more detail in a little while.

I did later in the next several posts.

Little by little sonic is growing in scummyness. But if my memory serves correctly i've played the heads or hydra and they have played similarly. Don't recall if they were scum or not.

Must check it later.

I did, and eventually voted for him.

The sad part about everything is that i don't understand why others pinned you as town during your first half of the game.

I must check that.

Found nothing

and yes, I know the deadline is coming up.

I'll get to it

when my mind clears.

See below.

Ok, I'm going to have to ISO prohawk without any bias

. Can't do it right know.

This is, in essence the same post as before. And it wasyesterday, so yeah, i haven't gotten to it.

Are you a politician? You are reeking of active lurking.
In fact, while I am still scumreading Prohawk, I feel my vote would be better on VOTE: Guille.
I plan on doing a quickfire round of questions, if anyone has any questions they would like me to answer (that can be answered quickly), fire away!

Basically every-time I said I was going to do something, I did. You know, sometimes people are busy.

[guille2015]

guille, please provide last words and a claim. This is

intent to hammer by the deadline.

I ama Jailkeeper. Let me finish reading the last pages and I'll give you my points.

[guille2015]

Prohawk

I still don't see it. He has been scum-hunting early. Albeit in one-liners but he was questioning Dino, Shos behavior, He noticed sho's Jackal thing, post 373.

once he gets into the more than 3 sentence posts is that I feel that he is making wrong decisions. Wanting a counterclaim being a scum tell assumes that all town Remember that this is a close setup, are aware of optimal play, and are actually avoiding to ask for a CC. DGB and Dino niether implicitly or explicitly asked for a CC. I might have unintentionally asked for it in my wording, but it honestly wasn't my intention. My intention is clear in my post.

The concept of CC is actually a good concern. I think Scum would not point it out. Especially since said reasoning would not get any of those mentioned Lynched for that.

Then he goes into defense. Which could come from town or Scum.

I still think that Prohawk is town. Mostly from 373 and the CC thing.

Voided

I see no real scum reads the entirety of the day. He posts lots and comments lots but has no commitment. I am concerned for this: Post 216 says Ika is not town. Then in post 360 he says that I am wrong in thinking that ika is scum.

he started to do a bit of hunting when the pressure came but then reverted back to his previous self.

ika

Motivation behind posts. OK. Reading. Yeah, I see it. Basically a subtle scumhunting keeping to himself his reads and reasons. If that is his town meta, then I can understand it. But consider that this doesn't mean that he is town, but rather that this play is not indicative of him being scum.

unvote ika

More following.

[guille2015]

EddieFenix

Has been on the sidelines since the beguining. Follows Ika's motivation to consider Sonic scummy. Votes sonic for cop claim. Don't know what to say to that. would scum blatenly do that? I don't really know who he thinks is scum this game.

Ihave to go to my sons birthday now. But for the time being I consider VOided and Eddie Scummy. I'll keep ISOing through the game after I get back.

[guille2015]

I've seen a new side to guille.
And if just the fact that he has claimed JK, UNVOTE: guille2015, VOTE: prohawk.

Don't you think My reason for Hawk being town gives reasonable doubt. Or where am i wrong?

[guille2015]

DGB

Is probably town. More concerned on who does scummy things than what others think of her.

Pirate Mollie

She is being carefree. My experience with her has led me to believe that when she is carefree she is likely town. But this is about 1 year ago, so play styles may change. I'll call her town for now.

Bulbazak

I get a very distinct town feel here. He is very much all over the place considering everyone around.

Shos

Anybody can read his ISO and see a very clear and noticeable change in game. The point happened when he stopped being busy. This suggests that he was in fact telling the truth that his fumbling was due to him being busy rather than because he couldn't fake his ideas. However, the possibility of this being a ruse is still there, and if Shos falls back to his original start of the game, it means that this change was a ruse and he should be lynched.

nazarrene

Leanin town but mostly null here. I am really tired of ISOing, and I don't get any town or scum fell in their posts.

Whose left? MathDino, Istott, and Sonic. Well, I don't want lynched dueto me thinking they are town or have claimed cop. So I have not ISOed them.

So yeah my vote is better placed here

Vote Voided

I can totally do EddieFenix too and I will be available to switch my vote before the deadline is reached.

Considering that I am finding only two players scum, It is likely that there is something really really wrong about my town reads or this game is a multiball. Or both.

[guille2015]

What about that hissy fit she threw a little bit ago? That looks like she's very much concerned about what others think, which is odd, because she usually doesn't.

Which Hissyfit? I ISOed her again to see if I missed it, but can't see it either.

[guille2015]

Has anybody heard of a scum jailkeeper? I have!

Your assuming that I couldn't have possibly lied about being a JK as scum. So, you are thinking that as scum I did not lie about my role? Do you believe my claim?

[guille2015]

I'm more interested in your read on me ISTOTT

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure. I need to refresh myself on the cases against you, but I just looked at your ISO, and there weren't any blatant Scumtells.
I do have something to ask of you though.

How would you (without any bias) describe the case against you?

This goes for

mathdino

too.

Actually, everyone (who has been accused of being scum) please answer this. It could be useful.
Thanks for your answer, prohawk.

Off the top of my head, I have been accused of not providing any reads with my suspicions. I thought I did though. And then there was this thing about me noticing Shos change in performance that nobody seemed to have noticed, and some found my position here of poor logic, for some reason.

[guille2015]

Istott

: Thoughts on this please.

from what i recall the reason why i was being called scum was really on these points:

-inconsistency
-generally being scummy

thats what i can recall offhand.

[guille2015]

I do. Claiming a guilty on Mollie and then turning around to say that he must be insane is not a pro-scum move. It essentially turns him into policy lynch material, which is bad for a scum wincon. He'd have been better off claiming an innocent on a town player and leaving sanity ambiguous. The only way this makes sense for Sonic-scum is if you also believe Mollie is scum, which you've given zero indication.

Plus, I believe Sonic-town would investigate Mollie for those reasons.

Sonic-scum would probably think that he was screwed anyways, so he would go directly to the angle of pleading insanity. Don't you think?

[guille2015]

Sonic:

Thoughts on who you think is scum by now? and why?

[guille2015]

I'll keep my suspicion of Eddie. Basically my same reasoning as yesterday.

Bulbasak

why do you think Eddie is town?

I am going back on thinking that Ika is scum. And here is why. Looking at the last wagons, and those that switched from me to void, I find That ika's switch was lacking. No foreshadowing of his suspicion of void and considering that he voted last on me, for being taunted by Voided, feels like he just wanted any town lynched and since at the time I was not going to get lynched and Voided was on the way for a lynch, his vote was the only one that I can detect as opportunistic.

I feel that ika needs an imminent threat to a lynch before he can either produce actual content or reveal himself as scum.

Vote ika

[guille2015]

I need to be lynched before i can post or reveal myself as scum is what your saying? that makes like even less sense then what i tend to post half of the time.

The key word is threat. As in someone needs to threaten you to getting lynched.

[guille2015]

Ika is tttttoooootally town.

I don't see it, I want to see what you see!

[guille2015]

Yes, I am fully aware that I have not given my target. But since My target did not kill shos, I felt that I either targeted ScumPR or town.

What good would revealing my target be at the outset when I can use that information to test if my target is scum or town or null based on they're response, or if any other player has information that they should not have.

I think I should withhold my target, because I still think I can get more out of it and because I have a feeling that that information would harm town.

[guille2015]

while I kinda wanna hear metal out I also feel like he is stalling.

What are you waiting for?

[guille2015]

So much wrong with this... 1.) Why would you deny town this information? What happens if you die? That's one less piece of information town has to work with. Also, that means we don't have enough information to accurately read you, especially when there are some of us that are not confident about your alignment. 2.) How can you reaction test a target when you don't tell them you targeted them? That makes no sense. Night activity alone means very little, especially when you have nothing to put it into context. All you should know given your role is that your target couldn't do anything. There's no way to determine if they could in the first place or if they even attempted, and you still can't come up with that information regardless of what you do in the thread. If you are looking to gauge reactions, you should be looking in the thread, and all of this is impossible if you don't say who you targeted. That action is not going to produce reactions. Period. Let's not even get into the fact that the only way you can test reactions is by announcing your target, and that would allow everyone in the thread to gauge reactions, which would lead to better scumhunting. 3.) How in the world would revealing who you targeted harm town? Information is good. It helps town figure things out. Withholding information is what harms town, especially when you're an outed PR that can give us an insight into the big picture.

Well, I am open to changing my mind.

1) I don't plan on withholding my information permanently. I was planing on releasing come the end of the day. I want to hear the opinion on everyone before I release to see if everyone is ok with that.
2) You know my power. Think about my power. Think how would you know if I targeted you.
3) Hypothetically speaking, If you are a town rolecop, and you discover a town watcher. Would you reveal that information?

[guille2015]

because he is Guille-ty!

I see what you did there!

[guille2015]

I kinda liked Sonics reads for Prohawk and Math. hmmm.

[guille2015]

Sorry. Brain fart, I thought I was posting in this game and it was in another.

[guille2015]

Alright. It was Eddie.

[guille2015]

Oh, Two millers. Interesting.

I targeted Ika last night.

[guille2015]

vote Nazarene

[guille2015]

Causes I think he is scum.

I targeted Eddie N1.

Why do you think I am scum?

[guille2015]

Fair enough.

Yesterday (Game) I figured that scum would more likely vote for Sonic then not, given how intent most everyone was to lynching him. DGB was pretty adamantly against it so I doubt that she is scum buddy with Sonic and Issot and Pirate I doubt are scum, that leaves a very limited selection to be.

If Nazarene is scum, I find it very unlikely that Prohawk is scum too given post 99.

[guille2015]

@ nazerene

I wld think that guille wld use his role as a protective rather than a block given the knowledge he had at the time. he wasn't protecting ika, he was BLOCKING ika who is pretty town. smells like scum to me.

Uh, Who would you have protected yesterday if you were a JK, pray tell?

Without knowing who is town. And who in town has a PR that I don't want to block I cannot use my power as a Doc. I would have doctored some of my town reads including Bulba, but I don't want to block them. So, the best choice is to aim for scum and hope that they are performing the kill. I know that EF and Ika did not perform kills N1 and N2 respectively. I know something else but I have to wait until everyone massclaim.

So in short, I was and am using my power as a roleblocker until I get more information so that I can better direct my Help. And yes, Ika, I thought was scum yesterday. His claim today will help me reevaluate that, if it needs reevaluating.

I am in favor of a Massclaim today.

[guille2015]

You were very happy in My JK role earlier. What changed?

[guille2015]

That is interesting. I was under the impression that you knew that I targeted you N1. And to me that meant that you are a PR that can obtain results. Hence why I was reluctant to reveal that info.

I think a claim and results for N2 are in order.

Also, what are your thoughts on Math's result?

[guille2015]

What are the chances that mafia have a roleblocker and blocked guille?

There is also the possibility of a redirector type power around. I have considered it earlier or me being blocked is the only explanation of any discrepancy.

I have no indication that my power is a dud. But If anybody was blocked N1, that may be indicative of a re-director.

The interesting part about Eddie is that He claimed N1 action after I said I targeted him. This is not something scum tend to do. Much less this early in the game.

Having Eddie and I target each other (with whatever Eddie has) should Proof something. He will get blocked and Confirm my power, or if I get intercepted in some way, he can confirm a guilty or innocence on me. Just food for thought here.

I doubt that Math is not sane. If there is a redirector, then this situation sucks. The tailor died before N2, so he couldn't have done much about a gun. Gun Framer also a possibility. So, then go with interactions.

@everyone: Do you find it likely that Sonic's buddies would vote on him or not yesterday?

My thoughts are yes, so In my mind I think that those outside have a less chance of being his buddy.

[guille2015]

The situation I see here is that Math Has a maybe Guilty on Nazarene. Nazarene has a Maybe guilty on Prohawk. It seems math's guilty is more solid. If nazarene claims before Prohawk, Prohawk would loose all credibility.

I think the night actions are set, And I agree with the plan.

Math, what do you think of Eddie doing his mojo on me? I would have liked to hear his results, though.

But regardless, Prohawk should claim.

[guille2015]

I don't see anyone but you who's dead set on night actions tbh. The problem being is why do I HAVE to target you to confirm

your power?

My power could get re-directed just as much as yours could when you think about it.

Assuming you are telling the truth. If I block you, you will not receive a result, thus confirming my power. If You are not blocked, you can confirm my guilt or innocence, in whatever way your power works.

[guille2015]

Regardless of whether mass claim is a good idea or not, you have a guilty result on you by one of the players. If you don't Claim before they do, Your claim Will be be useless. Don't you think?

[guille2015]

Technically, only one confirmed fake claim. But I agree that scum could easily produce a fake claim.

Prohawk: Do you think Nazarene is Scum? If you had an ambiguous result on someone dependent on their claim, would you request them to claim?

[guille2015]

Prohawk

: Do you think Nazarene is Scum? If you had an ambiguous result on someone dependent on their claim, would you request them to claim?

[guille2015]

.
2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - Claimed possibly insane tracker. N1 found bulba targeting shos. N2 tracked Prohawk to no one.

6. EddieFenix - Useful result N1 on Sonic
7. ProHawk - Claimed Ultimate Cop, innocent on Bulba on N1, no action N2

2- Does this mean that the tracker gets the opposite result, or that the result is random. If it is the first, then if Nazarene flips town, Prohawk is guaranteed to be scum.
6- Not useful since the result really didn't matter on the day Sonic died.
7- Prohawks role is consistent with his posting.

That said, Nazarene's role and result are not consistent with their posting. Considering that they townread Bulb, still targeted him, and even finding out that they had a damning result on Bulb, they went out for Sonic's Lynch without even prodding bulb for anything that might hint his result.

I think My vote is fine where it is.

[guille2015]

That post was completely unbiased, I just wrote the info each person had given, plus death reveals.

I am aware, I am using your post to provide my thoughts, not as an opinion of it.

[guille2015]

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

Well, I did, and that's why I was confused. I just checked the wiki. Insane is the opposite, all my [mafia]life I've been thinking its random result. So, I was confused because You said something that contradicted with my definition.

So basically, you can only check if someone travels or not. If this is true, then Prohawk is certainly scum.

[guille2015]

If I flip Town (Which I am), would that guarantee that Eddie is scum?

The reason I haven't been all about Eddie is because of the potential of my power being messed with roleblockers or redirectors. What made me think of this was that Eddie claimed him not being block when I had already claimed him as my target. I doubt Scum would place themselves in a vs position this early. And your (Math) observations seem to be good.

I'm obviously in favor of resolving the Nazarene/Prohawk, but my reasoning is not only because I want to keep living, but more so that the Resolution is much more clearer than the Guille/Eddie.

[guille2015]

guille, can you jail me tonight? It won't Roleblock me, just protect me.

I've been ordered elsewhere though. If Naz flips scum, my best option is to use my power to clear someone else. You're pretty much clear for everyone. I'm open for suggestion at this point, but currently planning on what we agreed.

[guille2015]

This was a pretty fun game here.

I think that the balance was there. The game could have easily be Scum sided. But The millers played a superb town game, and some othre stuff happened that I really don't have time to go into.

I think Naz played the best scum game here, and was simply unlucky, but could have survived longer if not investigated. And that pretty much saved my life, Until Ika killed me :/

Also this:

Guille actually IS right about Sonic Boom and ika. o_O