Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Voidedmafia]

/confirm

Let's see how well this game turns out for me.

[Voidedmafia]

/confirming Bulb's /confirm that I suck.

[Voidedmafia]

>>

You only have, like 3 game's worth of interaction with me.

P-EDIT: All our times have come...

P-EDIT: MOLLIE STOP BREAKING SCRIPT!

[Voidedmafia]

Then who WAS it to?

[Voidedmafia]

As a sidenote, I wonder how many people remember me.

P-EDI: Psh. Like it's worth keeping a secret.

[Voidedmafia]

LOL does everyone else have a role that makes the other side auto-lose because it's so crazy overpowered?

Sure.

[Voidedmafia]

That always works.

[Voidedmafia]

No. I just found it curious. You still didn't question it though. Why not?

Interesting.

[Voidedmafia]

Nullest shade of null.

And this is because...?

Vote: Nazarene

[Voidedmafia]

hi guyz

whats going on

Peeps are mad at Bulb, I think.

Iunno, I leave for class in a bit.

[Voidedmafia]

Though, really, dino's points are pretty decent.

[Voidedmafia]

ika

, please claim this role in your next post or I will lynch you myself.

please, please, no.

I feel like voidedmafia and dino things are being incredibly congenial.

I take it you agree, then?

Thoughts on Bulb, while we're on the subject?--wait, dino kinda asked the same thing. Meh, still gonna ask. And ask for thoughts on dino, too.

So, um, hello. I am Jackel, and also completely lost. Am going to claim, though.I am a one-shot miller. So, yeah.

...1-shot Miller. Right.

Is this going to be one of those games?

To be clear, "interesting" was meant to be taken as an agreement with your statement and question.

[Voidedmafia]

Can I see it next time, mastin? Plz?

<<< Well, since you asked, sure. A word of warning, I'll put emphasis on getting the basic votecount up first, and only after that will I put up the fancy stuff. (That extra stuff takes a ton of time.) >>>

[Voidedmafia]

On the fence. Probably town, because I don't understand why someone who's doing a miller gambit as scum would claim something as outlandish as 1-shot which could get him some backlash.

What makes it better/worse than claiming a full miller?

This is because bulba is being pretentious. He has started out every game I played with him like this, so I don't attach any value judgment to that.

Every game you two've played together he calls you scum with someone? I suppose by that point it's an in-joke of sorts, but are you certain that you can't glean anything alignment indicative from that (i.e. differences between Bulbascum and bulbatown, phrasing, etc.)?

I am not sure what to make of voidedmafia not trying to lynch me.

Why would I try to lynch you?

On the fence. Probably town, because I don't understand why someone who's doing a miller gambit as scum would claim something as outlandish as 1-shot which could get him some backlash.

What makes it better/worse than claiming a full miller?

This is because bulba is being pretentious. He has started out every game I played with him like this, so I don't attach any value judgment to that.

Every game you two've played together he calls you scum with someone? I suppose by that point it's an in-joke of sorts, but are you certain that you can't glean anything alignment indicative from that (i.e. differences between Bulbascum and bulbatown, phrasing, etc.)?

I am not sure what to make of voidedmafia not trying to lynch me.

Why would I try to lynch you? What did you do to me that I would be so gung-ho about that without anything to back it up in this game?

shos <3 you back!

what do you make of naz creatures calling bulba pretentious? I don't feel like bulba has been pretentious in this game and I am usually kind of sensitive to bulba's pretension. I feel like it is like the kind of play that people make against personality players. I don't like it.

Naz has indicated that the TS half (I think it's the Tiershift half) has had this happen multiple times before. Wouldn't that indicate

[Voidedmafia]

Don't kill prohawk either!

Vote: Prohawk

whatcha gonna do?

i can give you one:

Meh

Still kinda don't like Naz. Not quite sure what I think about Pro's immediate jump to Naz's defense.

[Voidedmafia]

@voided: the difference is, well, that a 1s miller needs to actually be copped twice for that to happen. for that, we need multiple cops, or a really insistent(sp?) cop.

(correct spelling)

I guess I'm not quite as trusting of it not because of it being an inherently scummy claim (I can see some reasons why it would be detrimental to scum), but I guess because of it's oddity. Like, I have an initial knee-jerk reaction (in this case, "...wtf?") and then I start thinking about whether or not my initial reaction is in any way correct and now I'm bogged down on the particulars and can't quite get back to that initial point.

TL;DR: For now, it's really just a thing that's happened to me.

[Voidedmafia]

Well game isnt evolved enough for any nonfluff.

More voats plez

I'm sorry, who appointed your Mr. Lazy?

<<< A boy, of course. >>>

The fact that a 1-shot modifier is unheard of for a miller and I know a lot of scum who wouldn't dare to claim such a role, because of the feared 'lol that ain't a real role quicklynch this shit'.But it does sound like something I'd fakeclaim *shrug*

It does sound like a possible fakeclaim, but I think I'm starting to lean toward it being on the riskier side for scum.

Not quite sure I

buy it

, but it's probably more town than scum.

What I did notice, especially in bulba's last scumgame, is that he tends to get completely caught up in his heated argument with someone and not do anything else. This sometimes is with the same person he attacks early in the game. So I'm not letting him get away with that.

Plausible, but Eddiefenix has a point. I can also very quickly point to my Large Normal Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple where Bulb spent a good portion of Day...3 or 4, I believe, arguing with DGB and trying to argue his way through her claims via logic. Unless you have insight on particular parts I think this is null for Bulba.

EddieFenix is still alive?

Why should we lynch him now? He's not PL material.

[Voidedmafia]

Mastin, I think it looks great, but I don't think you really need to do that every VC. I just wanted to see what it looked like.

Hmm. I hate to try to second-guess what roles there might be but it looks like shos is trying to get himself killed here. He's literally made 10 fluffposts out of 14 total, voted Naz without reason, setup specced the number of cops, hinted at a policy lynch after saying he believes the claim, and is willfully ignoring the material we have this game. Oh and 123 was terrible.

I feel like scum-shos is better than this. Literally every post he's made this page is scummy in some way. I don't buy it.

What kind of wincon is he playing towards, then? Seems a bit more likely that Shos is trying to do as little as possible to survive as long as possible.

Vote: Shos

[Voidedmafia]

Been busy, will catchup tomorrow.

I will try not to tunnel on Voided. Still doing the quote on quote walls

I'm sorry.

[Voidedmafia]

am I not voting voting voided mafia?

I thought I was.

VOTE: voided mafia

...I'm sorry, I'm confused.

What are you talking about?

VOTE: DGB

My role PM says she's confirmed scum

Is this game bastard or...?

...Town? (Am I reading you right, now?)

hey obligatiry page top

so the dicussion i have seen so far:

"one-shot miller"
"is shos gambiting"
"cops"

am i missing anything? i overloaded on games so im prioratizing them so i can get to them all

anyone want to give me anything i have missed/questions?

Sure. Have any sort of preliminary reads, or thoughts based on those topics (which I guess is fairly accurate)

[Voidedmafia]

What part of hilariously unbalanced and possibly (meaning probably) bastard don't you get?

Sure, but does Mastin even like Millers?

VOTE: voidedmafia
Have you ever played with shos before?

A.) Why the vote? Or rather, why did you vote me?

B.) Maybe once or twice before I took a break. I'm not an extensive user of meta in the first place (note: not to be misconstrued as never using meta, just that I don't use meta as my primary scum/townhunting means), so are you suggesting that I'm going about this wrong?

Sequence of events.

EddieFenix votes the towniest player of the game, aka Bulbazak.
I punish EddieFenixscum by voting for him.
EddieFenix's buddy, BBmolla, is upset that I caught his buddy so quickly, and votes me.
BBmolla admits that this "may be" the case indeed.

@mastin2

can you fluff up my post, it's a little bit thin, LOL. <3

Pretty plausible. I can buy this.

mollie, plz, what'd I do to you?

[Voidedmafia]

On a sidenote, not sure I like Voided's blind acceptance of DGB's scenario.

Dino, I said I could buy that sequence of events. I didn't say I believed it was true or "blindly accepted it". Are you going to suggest next that I'm trying to push the lynch without voting it myself?

Really, I'd need a bit from Fenix before I could go for accepting it or not.

@BBMolla: Did you get the DGB information in your initial role PM? Or was it in a later PM?

I was going to answer your questions, but when I read the above I realized that the obstetrician must have dropped you on the head at birth, LOL. You can't possibly believe that Molla has actual information in his role PM declaring another player to be scum. Another role name, maybe, that would be extraordinarily rare. But another player by name?

Lyncher?

Do share. Can't give basic reads if I don't have them. So there is that.

Not even any "this guy feels iffy" reads?

Also, Mollie's post about the pretentiousness (ISO...4, I think?). Hell, her vote on me would arguably count, at least it'd count if she'd

explain it already

.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I see I survived. Really should be making more content myself, but I am liking most of the posting currently. I still think Shos should post content if they are going to post at all, and Prohawk just feels... off? Like saying that mollie hasn't produced much content. Might just be ignorance, but worth looking into.

Also, BBmolla, the DGB thing was a joke, right?

My gods, look at how little there is here.

what does any1 think of the chances that jackal just pointed to his scum team in this post?

"Hey, guys, I think I made it out of the woods! Let's start workin'!"

Something like that, ya?

Vote: Jackel

Yes, I am totally choosing to scumread only my scumteam like a newbie after claiming a stupid role.

Nah, I don't think you're trying to bus your team. I just think you're trying to test the waters and attempting to touch base with your scumpartners because you think it's relatively safe to now.

I wouldn't be surprised if you had one of your teammates stuck in there, but yeah

Mollie, quit asking for scumteams before we have a flip. That's bad and you should feel bad.

Also, you never explained what you were voting me for.

Mastin: such an epic mod, she can accidentally bump herself onto the next page.

Nyah nyah!

P-EDIT: If that was supposed to make her feel better, it's a little late.

[Voidedmafia]

1.) Sore could imply that I have it out for DGB for a particular reason. Which I don't.
2.) Nope. I want DGB dead because DGB. However, I'll be spending my time mauling over others first. Bigger fish. Yada-yada-yada.

Must I point out the contradictions here, or are they obvious enough?

No, it's obvious enough. But it's not scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Titus, I don't see any mention of a game in Hawk's ISO. What are you talking about?

[Voidedmafia]

Well shit.ika is town. Nobody make L-1 votes as long as he is alive.

I see no indication that Ika's town at this point. What gives?

[Voidedmafia]

pick up

Mollie why are you ignoring me now? You were interested earlier, what happened?

@Voided, Mollie, Boom: Ehhh, jackel is correct that it'd be a pretty unlikely move to claim miller, play badly, and then only mention the scumteam. 189 is something I could vote for but 198 puts things in perspective a bit. A move like that just doesn't seem reasonable yet, and I'm not up for PLing him.

Well, I'd be lynching him for being scum fakeclaiming miller, but okay.

And as I said re: 198, it's not so much him turning around to bus his team but rather trying to reach them and start working on what to do next now that he's not in the hotseat for his claim anymore.

DGB, I don't understand that vote at all.

[Voidedmafia]

DON"T MAKE ME LAUGH

what about jokes? Puns?

[Voidedmafia]

voided lets dance.

B-B-But I never learned how? I-I mean...are you gonna lead, or?

The only game I really remember playing with you was a...Double Day Unlimited, I think, where we had a pages-long argument with each other that I think ended up being entirely about playstyle. Unless I'm completely misremembering. Point is, It's been well over a year since we last played together, and I'm not really seeing the relevance from then to now unless you think I plan on intentionally picking another fight. Which I don't.

...Please tell me you don't think I will.

I'm being congenial because I'm trying to emulate Mastin a lil. obviously I'm not even close to being a Mastin-lite like AngryPigeon, but yknow, gootta start somewhere, right?

<<< For the record, AP has grown into his own proper playstyle, one equal or even superior to my own, albeit influenced by principles I helped instill in him. But much <3 to you! >>>

[Voidedmafia]

ffs you are scum.

VOTE: voidedmafia

I'm trying to talk to you (also not trying to get into a page argument again). Isn't that what I'm supposed to do?

I mean, if you don't want me to talk to you, then fine, I won't.

[Voidedmafia]

What I want to say about shos is that he always posts fluff early game, at least as town, as scum maybe a bit less, but still. So I didn't take that as alignment-indicative. Fluffing early game is generally not done too much by scum. At least it isn't a scumtell that works and I think you ought to know that.

Fluffing can be done just as easily by scum as it can by town regardless of the game state, simply due to the personalities of the players doing the fluffing.

Also, simple fluff is one thing, but fluff to the point of ignoring content from others and excluding yourself from the content-making process is something else entirely. The laziness in post 119 is what initially got me suspicious, but the continued non-content solidified my vote.

And then Jackel posted something scummier, hence the switch to him, but Shos is still scummy to me.

Hey look! another opportunist vote!

Look, if you're going to rail on me because my votes come after 2-3 others, find another line to push me for because this is utter shit. If this is an incorrect summary of your reason(s), then explain.

Townread me. It is that easy. Look, I am not ENTIRELY useless, and am actually quite useful, even when I am practically VLA(uni shit is choking me) so just hold your horses until I am up to speed. Meanwhile, love me

I'm not a man who can just love at the drop of a hat. You gotta show me that I should love you.

Luckily for you, I'm also patient and can wait until Uni isn't beating you up for your lunch money.

disagree; while I see how this can be true, Jackal's claim may have gotten him policy lynched, and its oddness is so great that it literally draws all attention to him. therefore, I am 100% convinced he is town.

I'd like to believe that, but I still get the feeling that 189 was supposed to be a step away from the claim and he botched it.

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, hold on, Shos. you vote Jackal in 252 yet say you're 100% convinced he's town later in the same page. What changed?

LOL because he agreed with me.

I've genuinely agreed with town when I've been scum. Gimme something more.

[Voidedmafia]

Not sure if VoidedMafia is town.

Meh. Are you calling me not-town because I'm arguing with you?

[Voidedmafia]

VM, since you're online, can you please elaborate on what you'd consider "ok" fluff and what is "scummy" fluff?

"ok" fluff is the kind of fluff that doesn't overly detract from your post or posts over the course of the game. It's where you can get away with a page or so of a side, non-game-relevant conversation (that's not about other ongoing MS games!) with another player because everyone in the game knows that you're still providing content that's usable and relatively decent toward your endgame goal.

"Bad" fluff is pretty much when you don't have that leniency. You focus too much on side conversations or small snippets of nothing that you don't actually

do

anything. Even worse is when you do that and

then

start complaining that there isn't nothing to work with when you are asked to start contributing. This is something that is pretty much entirely decided by the enter playerlist except yourself, even if you agree with the conclusion, as is the "good" fluff.

To make this more relevant to this game, I'm not trying to be hypocritical because I know I still can lean into the bad fluff territory (I imagine there might be some of you in this game that are thinking of me as such, or at least starting to). The thing is, though, that regardless of the gamestate--early game, late game, slow-paced, fast-paced, or what have you--requests/demands for more content are

never ever

good things. Granted, I think I just talked myself into believing you're town because I just realized that it's definitely not a good plan for scum to do that, but it still sets me on edge when any player whines about how there's nothing useful going on, demands that there be more content, yet has either not given anything worthwhile on their own to justify it or do not attempt to give something within the same post(s) that they request that info. IMO it speaks very poorly of you.


Mollie, that's terrible and you know it.

P-EDIT: SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS MY CONFUSION WITH THAT, THANK YOU!

[Voidedmafia]

VOTE: bulba

Is this just a contrarian vote, or?

[Voidedmafia]

have I mentioned how much your posting sets my teeth to grinding because of how little care you have with spelling?

[Voidedmafia]

Not that it should overly affect my read, just expect me to feel a little...strained whenever I respond to a post of yours with multiple spelling errors.

Also, "stly"? (re: Bulb)

As for jackel, the majority case was that his 189 was seemingly talking about his scumteam and trying to bus them, which I agree is horrendously stupid for scum who's just gotten himself away from the suspicion from the claim. My problem was more that it was projected out

to

his team instead of

about

it, like he's trying to communicate base strategy while scum (presumably) doesn't have daychat.

[Voidedmafia]

Do you feel that I called you scum?

Little bit, yeah. If only because I can't understand how you're going from one place to another.

In other news, Ika said he can "solve" you. How does that make you feel?

I think he's probably trying to solve anyone he doesn't know yet (or doesn't have a good grasp on).

[Voidedmafia]

Not feeling shoswagon.

But there's no explanation for his contradictory opinions on Jackel! Why shouldn't I be voting him in my next post?

Voided, your general logic surrounding shos and jackel suck, tbh. The whole 'stepping away from claim and signalling partners' just doesn't seem like a sensible scenario.

Okay, I guess I can understand your distaste re: Jackel (though I still have a nagging feeling that it's

some

kind of hidden communication; that might just be me, though), but not Shos. I agreed with some of what you said about him back on page 6 on my own (the fluffposting, his willful ignorance of the gamestate), and others I understand after looking back/remembering (cop spec, the no-reason vote on Naz). And for recent suspicious I believe the contradictory statements he's made about Jackel are at worst something worth looking into and at best a genuine scum slip-up in opinion. The main reason why I'm not voting yet is because I can see the argument that Shos has a genuine reason to flip from voting to believing Jackel's 100% town, but hasn't yet had the time to properly explain it because of uni work.

And before you say anything, I'm aware that he explained why he thought Jackel was 100% town. What I want to know is the process that got him there because there's pretty much 0 posts of his between his vote on Jackel and calling Jackel town.

[Voidedmafia]

That being said, I agree that Sonic Boom, at least, is giving me a bad feeling. Mollie, not so much.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah, no. I've stated that I've found both jackal and shos votes to be awful and you've done both. On top of that, they're just a jump on a wagon. But that's not the main reason I'm voting you, that'd be the former coupled with your seemingly useful game start that really had nothing relevant in it.

Spoiler: Mastin-esque rant/explantion about myself that's too long to be unspoilered but important enough that I'm not deleting all of this

This is the point where I intentionally/unintentionally (or rather, try not to but probably do so anyways) play the "I've been on break and haven't touched this game as a player in nearly 9 months. I'm rusty!" card. I'm...going to try my damnedest to not play that card (even though it's empirically true; I only really came back because the first time I decided to click on my link to MS coincided with Bulb's Ikaruga game finally going into sign-ups, and prior to that there was a 5-6 month span from early-mid January to Jun where I pretty much never visited the site once).

That being said, making use of the early game in Mafia is not my strong suit. RVS is a bit too disjointed for me and it's very easy to apply the reason of nonsensicalness to everything you do as a potential smokescreen for scummy behavior that would be caught and questioned within 2-3 posts were it, say, D4 on page 50 (not to say that applies here, but I hope you get what I mean). I work better when the game is at a point where...well, it's a little hard to explain, but it's basically the point where I can begin to somewhat apply a logical argument to things. "Player X did Y because of Z reasons." "Player A voted B because of C reaction". I can see those arguments, I can look back at the thread, and I can understand how somebody did something and thus agree or disagree with it. Granted, I'd probably agree more that disagree if the pure logic behind it was good without looking deeper into how it's presented and whatnot, but that's something I need to work on both in-game and in RL, but yeah. Ideally that'd probably be around page 15 at the earliest, page...oh, 20/25 at the latest, though it may have to be at page 10, even, depending on how fast RVS can be considered "over" and how soon it goes from harping about supposed reasons in RVS to discussion on actual game-relevant topics that either come from RVS or from new points raised. My content from pages 1-5 or 6 (or 7) may not be overly useful because at that point I'm not at a position where I can reliably extract information and then present my views correctly. Or because I simply can't express the way I feel because I know what it feels like to me but I don't know how to put it into words that others will understand. Or simply because the way I play is probably too outdated and I'm ashamedly slow at picking up the new way of doing things.

This also ties into my new aversion to larges, both because D1's tend to get really inflated and because the sheer number of posters is so high that I get clogged with

pages

of stuff I have to readthrough due to my schedule (working from 8-9 in the morning to 2 or 4 in the afternoon, maybe an hour or two at home for lunch and spare time, then a 30 min. drive to Columbia, then I'm either going directly to class or I'm lucky to be having 7:45 classes like I have this term, then another 30 min. drive back, and then I'm trying to cram in some last-minute stuff before I try to go to bed at 11 which almost never happens and I get sidetracked and stay up till midnight. Yeah, I have consistency issues <_<). This in turn leads to me either skimming a large portion of that, and thus potentially missing an important event such as a claim or the start of relevant discussion, or I have to do what I'm (most embarrassingly, really) (in)famous for: Wallposts with lots of quotes, exacerbated by my tendency to try and find something to talk about in every post I see because I try to work from where I left off to where everyone is, and I don't often know what exactly is the most pressing topic so I gotta comment on

most

all of it. Might be a bad habit I do, but I'd also like to honestly avoid trying to sound like I'm parroting somebody if I happen to voice an opinion that's almost the exact same as what someone else says in page 7 of my catchup when I'm on page 2.

The fact of the matter is, I have a

lot

of baggage from when I first stopped playing that I may not have completely rid myself of now that I'm tentatively re-entering the pool of players. This game is really a bit of a learning game for me because I want to try to be some of the things that Mastin has posted about because I understand that she makes a whole lot of sense and I want to be a similar kind of person. That may take me forever, but I'm going to try regardless.

...That took longer than I thought to write (though lifting my hands from the keys to start articulating via my hands to people who can't see that

anyways

doesn't help), but the TL;DR version if you REALLY just want the essence of this (even though I think you should read it all anyways) is:

I'm going to get there. And even if I don't this game, it'll be experience for me next time. My early game isn't the best, and even if I try to truss it as better than it is I think even I realize that I'm only fooling myself and not everyone else.

Can you try to explain to me why Shos votes suck? (this also goes to Saurus, too; I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to read in 252 that's town unless you're referring to his tone)

p-EDIT: Bulb, quotewalls are supposed to be

my

job...

<<< Voided, you and I spent too much time hydraing, because your post here is

scarily

close to being me. >>>

[Voidedmafia]

If there's anything you really think I should talk about that I'm not (or if you want to be a helpful soul and give me points to talk about on my own), please do so. I probably won't get to them tonight but I should have time tomorrow.

[Voidedmafia]

and the comment about stealing your account came across as bitchy and by all means I don't want to discourage the self-awareness process you have going on there I am just blown away by the maturity of it. what brought this on?

This isn't something new, as far as expressing these points about myself goes; I had already mentioned the core problems with my play in some form or another back in the post-game of both Shadows and Lights and Marketplace Mafia III (incidentally both the last complete scum and towngames I've played, respectively, I think. Prior to leaving, anyways, since Lurker Mafia was a more recent towngame), and my perceived failures as a mod in Big Brother: Head of Household Mafia were what eventually pushed me to leave the site temporarily.

If you mean me actually

articulating in-indepth

about my problems and the attempts as of now to try and correct them, that post kinda started with me wanting to explain why I'm not an early-game person and just got a lot more words in there than I think I originally meant to have, and any sort of inhibitions I had about expressing anything about myself (which is a habit I tend to do regularly when talking about myself) were temporarily washed away by the needs of the topic at hand (which in turn seems to be the only way to temporarily break those inhibitions).

...Can't really try to put it any way other than that. Or at least I can't think of a better way.

Voided, I think this should explain your misgivings about shos and his jackel issues.

Huh. Completely missed that post somehow. Must've just skimmed it or something.

Okay, I can see Shos as town now, thanks.

Voided's pursuit of Shos based on his contradictory stance of Jackel feels off. Voided is essentially beating a dead horse on an issue that simple experience should tell him does not designate a scum slip. Shos is an easy wagon, and if town, would be the best mislynch to push through to limit information. Voided's push on Shos is for a BS reason and lacks the conviction I'd expect to see from town tunneling for a dumb reason. Simply put, Voided-scum doesn't want to get rid of such a tasty mislynch opportunity. There's also his treatment of Sonic, who he says "gives him bad feelings as well", although he's reluctant to really go further there. The language there is weak and only serves to open up an opportunity to jump on the Sonic wagon later, either to push that mislynch or to bus, which I think is most likely, given how Sonic would be a better no information lynch anyway and Voided is steering clear of it in favor of Shos.

You're right, Shos's statements are not indicative of a true scum slip. My problem lay less in the obvious disconnect of initially calling him scum then saying he's town, but the lack of any sort of noticeable and reasonable leap in logic to justify it. It's not like DGB's ridiculous leaps where you at least know he's got

something

to them but just won't say what. Also, not sure how I was talking about a dead horse topic when I was one of the ones who initially pointed it out.

As for Sonic...well, other than saying that there's just not really any substance behind anything they've said, I don't know what else to tell you. I just don't like them so far.

P-EDIT: SLEEP, DAMMIT, MASTIN!

<<< The action was never in question. How much was. >>>

[Voidedmafia]

Ok, I'm here.

I have been following along a bit.

Shos is scum along with Sonic Boom and Ika (cause anybody that makes colorful list has to be scum, amiright!!)

Vote Shos

Peace

Welp, this post sucks. And not just because it's an out-of-the-blue "X is scum" with no real reason behind that I'd probably have immediately voted/suspected for before.

but I'm right about Sonic boom and Ika right?

As Saurus said, so what? (you're wrong on ika, though).

So because nothing makes you think he's town, he must be scum?
Whaaa?

Also Sonic and ika? Your ika read sounds like you're in friggin RVS.

Edit: Not an explanation.

Saurus, quit making posts that I must parrot because of their truthiness!

Also, guile, I'd say uni stuff is a bit more time-intensive than most things (other than a job or project you're working on, maybe). That's not really a

good

reason in the first place because that only works if the lack of participation is because there is a measure of non-want there. Or, in a possibly better-worded situation, it only works if the player in question is using their "little time to play" excuse as a reason to not play, rather than as an explanation for why they're doing what little they have been.

[Voidedmafia]

You'd think Voided would've stopped buddying me after being called out on it, lol.

Hey, I agree with what I think is right, not necessarily what furthers my goal and/or my alignment's wincon. It (maybe?) helps that you just articulated my thoughts as I read guile's posts in a way that is better explained than how I would've.

Oh I know what it is to be busy. And I know how it is to be scum and busy vs being Town and busy. The latter is much easier. I don't understand the last part. If I understand correctly it depends on the motivation sensed in the posts? Hmmm. I'll consider it.

You are correct, it does depend on motivation.

Here's some extra motivation!

Vote: Guille

Does he do that as scum too? Cause if he doesn't then he is a terrible player.

I vaguely recall this when I read over X-Men: Age of Apolocalypse, but can anyone who was either in most of the game or watched most/all of it please confirm if he did that in that game?

[Voidedmafia]

A lot of his posts are about himself, which nag me as a kind of avoidance.

^ I agree with this. I am telling you he had srs playstyle issues with me and I don't see that changing after a break.

do you wanna lynch him?

And now that you say that you don't see it changing you're potentially forever blinding yourself to any time I

do

try to reconcile my play with your play so that we can have a positive experience because you're too afraid that I'm just going to brush you off again so instead of risking that it'll happen again (and I won't say that it will never happen because circumstances might just align so that at a later point I'm too angry or otherwise unhappy at non-game issues to properly address how you play in a positive, salient manner) you're just going to pre-emptively say "Nope, never gonna work, not gonna try" which serves...nobody.

Yes, I can see it quite clearly. I do that far too often than I should, and that's almost the

exact same

rationalizations I use IRL. Be better than me.

Also, DGB, I extended an open question to everyone in the game to start dialogue with me. Instead of essentially complaining about my self-centered posting so far you could've instead tried to get me to post about other things in the game. But, even if this can be construed as trying to appease you, here's a couple questions for you in particular:

1.) What about EddieFenix right now makes you feel like he's the right person to vote? His lack of presence?
2.) Re-explain to me why you think Nazarene is town.
3.) When you asked if I felt like you were calling me scum when you said I wasn't feeling town, why didn't you follow up on my response? Did you not mean to follow up?
4.) Ignoring the current spat of me-posts (from the big rant onwards), what is your read on me? Or, I suppose, how did my recent bunch of posts about myself change your read on me before I started doing that?
5.) What are your thoughts on guille now that he's made some posts (this goes for Mollie, too)?
6.) What are your reads on Ika, Sonic Boom, and Saurus and why? (also goes for Mollie! And probly bulb, too. Really goes for everyone other than those mentioned, but yknow.)

[Voidedmafia]

A lot of his posts are about himself, which nag me as a kind of avoidance.

Here's another one I just thought of: Why did you think I was attempting to avoid discussion when (from my PoV) one of the main points of the rant was to give you all a better way to interact with me and for me to interact with you and the game?

[Voidedmafia]

ARRGH, DGB, WHY MUST YOU DO THAT?!

1.) Alright, thanks for the update.
2.) What about his retreat was credible, though?
3.) I don't really see my answer as guarded. I'm honestly sometimes confused by the way you make logical leaps when you make them, often because you don't explain them as you make them. In this case, I didn't (and still really don't) get the not-town conclusion, and interpreted it (seemingly correctly) as you putting me in the leaning scum/scum category.
4.) This may be a question better asked by someone who's not me, but how have I been making you feel uneasy?
5.) What about guille is town? His suspicions of Shos read to me as superficial interpretations and it just seems to be a "hey, here's something to keep you all busy with" said in a non-town way. As for the last part, I meant that I wanted Mollie to give her read/comments as well, since both of you hadn't yet commented on guile's entrance.
6.) I think I may have to take people's word on Bulb, though I may just be biasing against him because he's suspecting me. I can accept that about Saurus, and I agree with your reads on Boom and Ika; Sonic because that's the same vibe I feel and Ika because that does seem to be a good summation of her posts so far.

Bulb: Can you sum up Binding of Isaac as it relates to Ika for me?

I don't think I've really played with Metal Sonic very much, and how people glean townreads off of him is something that's currently very foreign to me, so could you help explain what I'm supposed to be seeing that isn't there?

Fair enough on Saurus.

Prohawk, isn't playing to your townmeta generally a

good

thing? (not that I'm disallowing the thought of very good scum acting as their town selves, but what gives you the notion that it's somehow scum impersonation than genuine?)

[Voidedmafia]

He argued with Kuribo. I thought he was town. He was scum.

Isn't Kuribo one of those players who's a tightly controlled ball of rage, IIRC? Wouldn't arguing with him be almost inherently null without looking into how the arguing is being used?

He's normally a lot more active and involved as town. I expect a town Sonic to be in everybody's business and to have reached out to me early.

I see. Thank you.

Shos, didn't you promise to do more?

[Voidedmafia]

i need to reread this thread. bulbazak and voided walls are tough to read in a glance.

If you considering this walling, well, this is

nothing

like what I used to do that gave me that reputation. Any of this.

And the absolute worst bit of walling was spoilered as Mollie mentioned.

As for your attempted complaint about Bulb, don't make excuses for not reading crap.

Ika drew the full ire of Kuribo in that game. That's not something you purposely do as scum. I mistakingly townread him for it.

Has anybody else noticed that Jackel disappeared? I checked into his activity, and he seems to be giving this game the least amount of attention.

Okay, I can see why that would make you feel wary now.

It hasn't been something I actively thought about, although I did mentally note his lack of presence (not that that means much <_<).

IF you have any questions that are actually legit, please lay them out and I'd be happy to answer them.

Questions 4, 5 and 6 from the post you just quoted, for three.

[Voidedmafia]

So no comment on the cop guilty I got on you?

BWAHHAHA!

[Voidedmafia]

Not sure if that's scummy, Bulb. Sounds like me, really.

I feel iffy about istott's catchup pace. At least, it feels like he's going slower than I think he can actually go.

[Voidedmafia]

Just...bleeh.

Bulb, you've played with Metal Sonic more than me. I don't see anything good in that series of posts. Am I wrong or not?

[Voidedmafia]

Except that reaction tests and statements like that occur all the time. Town either ignores them or jokes around with them. What they don't do is lash out at the person who made the statement. That is a complete overreaction. For an example of a good reaction, check out Istott. He was caught off guard and reacted naturally, ergo town. Ika, on the other hand, completely freaked out. He's not new to this, and for someone that's gone toe to toe with Kuribo, this is not a town reaction.

I see your point, but at the same time I can very easily see this being an overly-snarky response to what is seen as a stupid reaction test. I might just be putting too much of myself in that post, though.

You're not wrong. Vote him with me.

Yes, Bulbazak.

Vote: Sonic boom

[Voidedmafia]

Don't you mean "Yes, master..."?

Yes, Master! Sorry, Master!

[Voidedmafia]

OH, we're having a Sonic Boom wagon? Sure!

VOTE: Sonic Boom

After I get NK'd because I'm the only one correctly suspecting EddieFenix, don't forget to lynch him.

...*strangled noise*

But there has to be something driving your gut. I want to know what it is. What is coming across as town?

The Titus head. Sonic's head not so much.

The Titus head has barely spoken. Show me what you see as town.

Also, this. Master Bulbazak demands an answer!

[Voidedmafia]

You all will regret disbanding the Shos wagon.

Just as you're regretting the lack of pushing it right now?

[Voidedmafia]

I am prophesying Voided. Quiet.

No. Dun wanna be quiet.

[Voidedmafia]

...Meh. That's kinda what I feel about that. Bit more on the disbelieving side, but.

[Voidedmafia]

OMG all of the scum are on my wagon!!!

No, not really. Really only guile so far. DGB and Ika may be if only by virtue of not being

my

townreads, so yeah.

I was planning to coast and reveal on day 2 and 3 but thanks (dumb town on my wagon) now I'm MORE USELESS

Plans to coast for a few days, somehow expects to get by freely, is surprised when he's called out on it, tries to claim cop to get out, is again surprised when some people don't believe him.

Yeahno.

Cop claims allow me to ignore everything

No they don't.

I find it very interesting that you are trying to L-1 a claimed cop though, because cop claims grant amnesty to all "subjective scummy" actions.

Pants on head, or have I miscalculated the scum on my wagon?

nnnno they don't. Especially when your claim isn't proven.

Do agree that Eddie's sudden defense of MS is suspicious.

[Voidedmafia]

I didn't even crumb cop,

I am treating my role like a IC

, but please go ahead and lynch me

Well, that explains it. Too bad you aren't an IC, though.

I dunno, but this cop claim has made me suspect sonic even more. I would definitely like titus' head to join in before I consider voting.

what cop claim

...

DGB, just...please.

It's similar to IC cause once I claim my role I'm unlynchable

I'm a cop so my opinion on his claim is more... What's that word? Justified? Important? Relevant? Reliable? Can't think now I'm going to bed

Like, where the hell are you getting this information from? I'm having a hard time believing that town can actually spew this in the way you're doing it.

However, Shos, he DID say that jackel's claim is bullshit. However, I also want to know why he thinks so.

Eddie's swift turnaround is still suspect. 2nd scummiest to me right now.

[Voidedmafia]

but what I find really strange is that istott picked up on metal being a "cop" and then metal claims cop and then says he didn't crumb.

He did? I don't remember him doing that.

[Voidedmafia]

Hi guys, the name of this game is Hilariously.... HILARIOUSLY... UNBALANCED Mafia. Anyone trying to use balance to solve this game is scum.

VOTE: Dinosaurus

I think he was the first one? Or maybe was just the first scummy one who stuck out to me.

lolwut.

This is terrible logic.

[Voidedmafia]

How the hell are they still at L-2 when Voided, mollie, Nazarene AND Fenix have all posted since the claim?

Because I still don't believe it.

I like your case, though. If I wasn't voting for Boom I'd be voting for him.

Metal Sonic sucks at hydras.

That he does.

[Voidedmafia]

In post 539, Doyouthinkhesaurus wrote:How the hell are they still at L-2 when Voided, mollie, Nazarene AND Fenix have all posted since the claim?
Because I still don't believe it.

It doesn't matter though, you don't have to believe it or not believe it, it's a day 1 cop claim. He lives.

And we're totally gonna let him slide the rest of the way on scummy behavior just because of that? MS hasn't done anything to warrant believing the cop claim makes him town, before or after the claim.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, you're a '11 player, I expect better than that from you.
if he truly is a cop, he'll get NKed. scum will not risk him being a real cop with real loads of investigations in such a game. this is not a micro.

...Fine, then. If you all are so sure he'll be dead tonight, then let's get ProHawk.

Vote: ProHawk

[Voidedmafia]

It's not

all

IIoA, Bulb. And even if it is, not all IIoA cases are scummy. Besides, the overall reasons for the case are still salient.

Voided, you and I spent too much time hydraing, because your post here is scarily close to being me.

We spent all of

one

game (and a Micro at that) as a hydra. How does that happen?

<<< Easy! Because I am such a memorable person, I always leave an impression on people! So ANY time hydraing is too much time hydraing! >>>

Also, maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I believe I said that I was alright with Shos's explanation.

[Voidedmafia]

Unvote

[Voidedmafia]

As the mod/co-mod for two of those games, I can back up those assertions. Her tunneling isn't terrible at this point, but it's not something to brush off.

P-edit: Pegging 3 scum is not the same as lynching 3 scum. it is also not enough to offset two counts of misleading the town to a loss/near-loss.

Bulb, perhaps ProHawk is a rather to-the-point kind of person, but that does not excuse the lack of presence from him.

[Voidedmafia]

I may be wrong, but by looking at my role, I have the feeling that a lot of the roles in this game are non-normal, or bastard. My claim of one shot miller actually fits in more thematically than sonic's claim.

That doesn't eliminate the possibility of there being a regular cop, just makes it more unlikely.

those scum were lynched except for the 1 we vigged and mebbe the offsite game I dunno I didn't see how it ended cos the homesite players walls made my eyes literally bleed. we all have our derp moments no1 is infallible. both of you have seen how thorella and I will tunnel each other for 30 pages, we have gotten a bit better tho. I have been on the receiving end of dgb's tunneling fuck been on the receiving end of your derp tunneling voided. but I have seen more strong play from her than not and I pay attention to her reads. I am not gonna let you neg on some1 whom I consider to be a strong player. it doesn't seem like you have a large enough sample size from the looks of it. I have seen nacho do the exact same thing but every1 considers him a good player cos body of work he is.

Look, I'm completely willing to give DGB the benefit of the doubt, but you'll have to excuse me if I don't exercise a bit of caution. Not "I'm too scared that it'll happen again so I'll never let it" caution like you professed with me, but "Let's see if it'll happen again this time" caution.

Now, why don't you help me

not

derp-tunnel again and help me figure out how we can work together. Unvoting me would be a plus, but is optional

(I probably should re-read that DDU to figured out why we argued but laaaazzzyyyy.)

Can you be so sure of that? Can you be so sure that there's only 1 cop in the game as well?

I'd believe multi-cop over no sane cop.

Not feeling a Dino lynch. Not today.

I agree with DGB, here. Don't think Dino's the lynch today.

[Voidedmafia]

DGB, I don't want you to just not play at all, I want you to just try not to tunnel on people so hard that you essentially bet the game on you being right or wrong.

Vote: ProHawk

Bulb may yell no, but I simply do not like what he's done so far. If I'm wrong he can freely yell at me all game long.

P-EDIT: How many pro-somethings can you fit in there, Shos?

<<< At least two more! >>>

[Voidedmafia]

I want you to just try not to tunnel on people so hard

I'm not even tunneling.

You aren't

now

, but I'd thank you if you could keep it light if/when it happens.

You're wrong, and this vote is stupid. You're siding with someone who is scum and didn't actually make a case containing any analysis on someone who is town and just provided analysis out of the wazoo. Out of the two, which sounds more like scumhunting to you?

I can accept that Saurus's case is not as solid as I originally expected, and I'm not liking some of his responses to you (for instance, that your case is gut and based on your townread, the former of which I could tell was definitely not true), but neiher am I going to accept what ProHawk has done (or hasn't done, rather) as proof enough to not wagon him. I see words but not

substance

, Bulb, and unless I'm just not looking hard enough (which, honestly, is entirely possible) I can't and won't defend someone that doesn't seem to have the latter to me.

On a related sidenote, Saurus's response feel like they're dipping toward wordage over meaningful rebuttals.

No one said anything about an insane cop.

Istott questioned if there was a normal cop in the game at all. It doesn't have to be strictly insane, but my point was that as of D1 I'd probably believe we had two or more cops in this game than that we had one insane/paranoid/naive/etc. Cop.

Get over yourself. You've played with me before, and this is not the first time I've expressed this opinion. You didn't throw a hissy fit then. Why are you throwing one now?

As a player that dooms her faction, all I have left to do is "hissy fits." If you want to call it that. I just lost my motivation, deal with it.

Someone says something negative and you automatically go to hissy fit mode? Isn't that more or less proving him right?

Voided, I tunneled on you when you were town, so I guess we can call it even, no yelling involved.

1.) Wha game? I don't remember what game(s) we played together.
2.) I'm...not tunneling you?

[Voidedmafia]

We have actually scum candidates. DGB, calm down. Bulba, back the eff of the moronic policy lynch idea.

-A

Wholly agree to this.

[Voidedmafia]

Eddie's MIA, DGB's throwing a hissy fit, and ika's currently thinking.

Latter one is okay for now, former two need to do something stat.

Why aren't we lynching guille again?

[Voidedmafia]

Dino's resplies to Bulb feel bad, but his reply to ProHawk is kinda okay.

And to bulb who asked last page, let's get guille, then.

Vote: Guille

Does anybody think Ika town? Why? I can't see town in Ika.

THere's no scum motivation in Ika, either.

No, I have lost my confidence.

Cry me a damn river.

hey i wanted to lynch them I don't give a shit about the cop claim I am telling you he lies in every single game and people let him get away with it.

I want him lynched, too, but it's just not gonna happen today, which sucks.

Also, so what if I'm trying to be more likeable (which is true to an extent)? That's not purely scum motivation and you know it. Are you

trying

to get me to yell at you or something because I've said at LEAST TWICE now that I want to try and work with you this game; the first time I don't think you answered, and this time you're completely dismissing my attempt and just saying I'm charming you or something. Quit using your DDU blinders and actually

talk to me

. I don't want to have to start insulting you or using thinly-veiled jabs at your unwillingness to talk to get any sort of interaction.

Also also, I'm pretty sure that is Bulb being understandably pessimistic of your abilities, although he might want to tone it back a little.

[Voidedmafia]

on the other hand, Voided saw that there's under 24 hours for a lynch and left the possibly only viable wagon for a right now nonexistent wagon on guille. I find this horribly scummy, and I conclude that either voided is scum trying to ruin town's play by nolynching, or he's bussed earlier because it looked good and now he runs away in attempt to save his buddy prohawk.

hahahaha seriously, how do you get this at all?

Tell me, how many people are going to vote ProHawk considering just how vehemently Bulb is defending him? How many people would vote Dino considering how many people aren't very gung-ho about that lynch? Why do you expect me to vote myself except in a very down-to-the-wire situation where I'm the only viable lynch and there's, like, less than an hour left (or less depending on how late I can stay on)?

[Voidedmafia]

We could just compare yours and Mollie's ISOs up to that point and get a consensus of sorts (well, that'd be impractical now, but yknow.)

Nazarene, you aren't going to get me lynched today, nevermind that your reasons that I know of ("oppurtunist" votes) really mean nothing unless enough people agree I was scummily hopping onto "bad" wagons.

Vote for guille, Prohawk, or another wagon of your choosing.

P-EDIT: It isn't. At all. Also got hints of a Catch-22 in there, too.

[Voidedmafia]

What, for giving my opinion? Or because I didnt scumread you?

Probly the latter at this point.

[Voidedmafia]

Vote me or vote guille.

Preferably Guille.

[Voidedmafia]

I see no real scum reads the entirety of the day. He posts lots and comments lots but has no commitment. I am concerned for this: Post 216 says Ika is not town. Then in post 360 he says that I am wrong in thinking that ika is scum.

not town=/= scum.

Also, re-read my reads again and you'll know I have scum reads: Sonic, you, maybe Fenix, and was-so-at-the-time-but-not-so-much-at-deadline ProHawk.

P-EDIT: You're expecting another wagon to spring up in less than...what, 8 hours? It's possible, but not likely.

Istott, get back on Guille. I honestly don't think we have the time to bring up another wagon that's not already up near being lynched.

[Voidedmafia]

Istott, get back on Guille.

I believe the jailkeeper claim.

Even if you do, are you going to go through with a lynch on me instead?

if the lynch does not go through today I think we can safely assume that voided is scum.

Or, yknow, I'm town and the majority of people know that? Or they just don't think I'm scum.

I mean, really. Have you even

tried

talking to me? At all?

Considering that I am finding only two players scum, It is likely that there is something really really wrong about my town reads or this game is a multiball. Or both.

The former, most likely.

Shall we save the "does VM have reads/scumreads or not?" argument for tomorrow if both of us live, or are you ignoring the clear evidence against your main reasons to vote me?

jesus christ srsly how this thing still alive?

Cmon, tell 'em why I'm scum. Tell me, at least, why trying to be more relatable and approachable is scummy.

I'll be around at deadline if you want me to claim. I'm very irritated that pretty much all of our lynch choices (bar ProHawk) are claiming PRs, and I'm really not sure if guile's claim feels honest or if it's an attempt to copy Sonic Boom and hope it works.

[Voidedmafia]

every single time I have seen a lynch not go through it has been on scum. in 1 game it was multiball and both leading contenders were scum.

That's al well and good, but I've seen DL lynches stall on town as well. It's not infeasible.

Again, why aren't you talking to me? What part of "I want to figure out how we can work together" was completely misinterpreted?

[Voidedmafia]

it didn't look genuine cos you never followed up on it by asking me questions or ever offered up anything that was worth talking about.

I asked you questions. Remember that quote that DGB posted her responses within? I asked you what your reads where there.

I asked you to talk to me. Multiple times. Sure, I may not have given topics to discuss with you, but you could've answered and given me questions, too. Even an answer of "I got nothing to talk about" would be something, but as far as I can tell you never gave me that.

I gave reads (granted, maybe not in an orderly form, but I've given them). Both you and guille are flat-out bullshitting on this point.

[Voidedmafia]

4.) Ignoring the current spat of me-posts (from the big rant onwards), what is your read on me? Or, I suppose, how did my recent bunch of posts about myself change your read on me before I started doing that?5.) What are your thoughts on guille now that he's made some posts (this goes for Mollie, too)?6.) What are your reads on Ika, Sonic Boom, and Saurus and why? (also goes for Mollie! And probly bulb, too. Really goes for everyone other than those mentioned, but yknow.)

Here, quoted for you, Mollie.

Also, I'm still kinda waiting for you to stop giving me this "aw hell no" reaction every time I ask you something, pertinent or not. I feel like this entire day you've been trying to avoid me except for

two

instances where you talked to me instead (one where you explained why you expected me to lynch you--which I still feel was rather silly--and again when you asked about that mini-rant and where it came from). It feels like there's been this wall that you put up that you've never let break down, and even if I may be underwhelming in my reach-outs, I'm still trying to do so (even if I'm getting increasingly annoyed at your refusals to acknowledge them).

Honestly, I think it may help me more to be asked than to ask, simply because it's easier for me to focus on one direction I'm given rather than try to pull some semblance of a direction out of a conversation.

P-EDIT: Hey, Mrs. Around. Knock some sense into Mollie with me/for me, plz.

[Voidedmafia]

what I saw was that eddie was scum, sonic was scum and so was prohawk but somehow a guille lynch was more viable even tho prohawk has been your top scumread all game

Prohawk has been a strong read, sure, but he's not my top scumread, not all game. That got replaced by Sonic.

if you are town then talk to me now cos that move did not make since to me but I am unlikely to move my vote at this point and I am not lynching guille. and it has nothing to do with his claim. I was ready to still lynch sonic DESPITE his claim.

Would you vote Ika?

town (in no order):
Bulb
Shos
istott
Mollie (one of the weakest, but still town)

Null:
Nazarene
ika
dino (really waffling on him)
DGB

Scum (weak-strong)
ProHawk
Fenix
Guille (interchange with Fenix)
Sonic Boom

[Voidedmafia]

so why did you move away from prohawk if he is your top scumread?

Mainly bulb. I could tell by the time Hawk neared L-2 (or w/e his max wagon was) that Bulb was pretty much going to defend that read to the absolute death if he had to. Then he started giving bad responses to Dino and my scumread began to rise again, but by that time we were at/less than a day before deadline and I doubted I'd have any time or ability to rebuild that wagon. Maybe I was wrong and I could've done it, but I didn't think I could.

Actually, correction: Prohawk has never been my top read (although he should be above Fenix in that readslist). I started scumreading him after the SB fiasco, and SB has been my top scumread ever since that.

...I feel like I should be asking you a question in return, but Iunno what it should be.

um...Ever played 1-Finger Death Punch?

P-EDIT: Unless you really don't want to follow Bulb, you can just join him in voting Ika. I am.

Vote: Ika

[Voidedmafia]

Well I was ready and willing to lynch Fenix but apparently, according to Bulbazak, I am "tunneling."

Will you

please

just get over that already?! Losing to derptunnelling is bad, but losing because you get apathetic is even worse!

Also you are claim stalling now.

I haven't claimed yet because I'm not truly in danger of dying yet.

you have voted prohawk pretty consistently so for som1 who is not your topscumread you certainly thought he was scum enough to keep voting him!

Again: I want Sonic dead. Even if you and I cried our hardest, we are not going to get him lynched today.

Logically, I should go to the person I view as my next strongest scumread at the time, correct?

Really, Mollie.

COS IT IS CLOSE TO DL AND UNLIKELY TO GO THROUGH

PLUS IT WAS YOUR IDEA AND YOU ALSO WANTED TO LYNCH YOURSELF COS THAT IS UNLIKELY TO GO THROUGH TOO!

ffs, this isn't rocket science.

I believe the correct interpretation is: If you feel like I'm gonna be scum through interactions, why not lynch me directly instead of going through proxies? Which is very correct, actually.

Besides, unless Ika votes me and someone else comes on to hammer (or Ika stays true to himself and hammers me after someone else votes), I'm not going to be lynched either. Plus, guille isn't likely to go through at this point (even if it's a scumread of mine that's reasonably close to going through.

Can't recall off my head who was calling guille town today, but why was that?

[Voidedmafia]

Great, make me feel uneasy just about claiming. Now I'm not even sure if claiming will do us any good since we don't really have enough to wagon anyone else except guille, I think. (DGB, me, Bulb, Mollie, Ika, maybe shos...okay, maybe we do for someone like ProHawk, though we'd have to take out Bulb for that one.

I'm a sane cop

. While my scumread on Boom is partially influenced by my own role, it is mainly because I did not (and do not) believe that his play outside the claim is good enough that the claim saves him, and I wish you people wouldn't have left it like that. I do not feel like multi-cop automatically means one of us is scum due to the game in question, hence why I didn't immediately CC him.

As for why I'm claiming now? As I was saying, I still held the belief that I would survive till the next day. with ika's vote, I'm not as certain about that since I don't think shos is voting me right now. I also didn't want to claim because 2 wagons in a row have been dismantled pretty much entirely from claims, and even if I am a PR I didn't really want to see it happen again. If we HAVE to lynch me, even if I'm a PR, then let Shos hammer, but the thought of no-lynching is starting to sound mighty appealing, if only so we can sort these out somehow.

Vote: ProHawk

Might as well leave it where I want to keep it.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, Bulb: He, not she. Jesus.

<<< And I'm a she, not a he. See what hydraing with me has done to you?!? Now there's all the pronoun troubles I have! >>>

[Voidedmafia]

"sane" cop is a bit weird, did you ask Boom about his sanity?

In hindsight, I should have, though I was still under the belief that he would've/could've been lynched without having to worry about it (again, scum for non-claim reasons). But I'll take that as a question to ask next time this happens.

so on 1 hand you are saying that you know you are a sane cop and on the other saying there might multiple cops running around who don't know that they are sane or insane or paranoid etc

No. I didn't CC because I didn't know if I was the only cop, period. It's entirely possible that SB's a sane cop like me, or I'm the sane one and he has some kind of insane modifier to his. Or he's just not a cop at all.

and you could just cc them but didn't? like how do you know you are a sane cop was it explicit in your role pm? cos in the multiple cop roles in games that I have seen they usually don't cos then it comes down to a follow the cop scenario.

Again, I don't know if I'm the only cop or not.

I know that any tampering with my results comes from outside my role, be it from millers, godfathers, etc. If we weren't pressed for time I'd ask for clarification on how much I can say but I believe I can say that much.

[Voidedmafia]

"sane" cop is a bit weird, did you ask Boom about his sanity?

ffs, dgb he is lying. as a cop you don't claim like an hour before dl when there is already a cop claim in play.

That's what I'm thinking, it looks like claim and run.

Claim and run? Really?

If I was "claiming and running" why would I make a big deal about lynches being dismantled due to claims? Unless you believe that hypo-VM-scum believes his team is well off enough that he can die, why would I still insist on being the lynch at the end of the day?

Furthermore, even though the topic has been bandied around often enough, this game is explicitly not necessarily balanced. Multi-cop is still a likely scenario. If I had any assurance that this wasn't the case I would've CC'd SB in a heartbeat.

[Voidedmafia]

Give this Head like three minutes to decide what to do with the most recent cop claim.

He's been arguing that for about 10 pages now. Where've you been?

(wrong quote, but whatevs)

[Voidedmafia]

828 is fundamentally correct and at the worst we net a scum in SB, who should have been lynched anyway.

Again, are you aware that this game may have multiple cops?

[Voidedmafia]

Welp, now you don't get anybody.

Probably will still vote SB tomorrow. Not sure if I wanna waste my investigate on him tonight.

[Voidedmafia]

are you aware that you claimed sane cop and that there was already a cop claim in play and that you only wanted to lynch him in a list of pool of players that consisted of prohawk but for *whatever reason* decided to move to guille when it came down to dl? he posted more content than you and you wanted to lynch him over prohawk anyways?

Prohawk did more than guille, anyways.

Also, I moved from Prohawk to guille because it appeared to me that support for it was waning. And then when guille claimed it felt like it was too late to actually restart that wagon.

I don't expect you to believe me, but when it comes down to the last hours or days I can't always just stick to my guns on what I think is the best lynch, unless I wanted to make a statement about things without being explicit.

[Voidedmafia]

I mean jesus christ voided whines about special claims not getting lynched and at the last minute *special claims*

Problem with that: I still said that you should lynch me at the end of the day if it's necessary.

Also, I complained about the fact that each claim we've had today would most likely have made the claimee's wagon dismantle or stall, which was true. Part of why I didn't want to claim. But, since I'm a PR, I still have an incentive to do something other than die a righteous death, like survive to get at least one investigation done (even if I die that same night). You may think it's more whining but it's still true.

Besides, what WOULD you want me to do? Ignore the fact that I'm a PR and can still be a help to town and just die?

My other problem was that at least in Sonic's case he was doing absolutely nothing to help the gamestate (and continues to not do so). I know I have tried and I know guille has attempted to.

p-edit: Oh. Well, then, cmon, folks! If you want your lynch, now's the time! Just, yknow, lynch SB D2, and if he's killed tonight go for Fenix, ProHawk and probably Guille and...ika or...hmmm, not really anyone else I really want to go after beyond my scumreads.

As for me, I gotta get going to college for some studying.

DGB: hahahahahahahahahaha. Like you could.

P-EDIT: You mean about lynching me, or?

Istott: You have 15 mins. Either hammer me if you believe I'm scum despite (or because of) my claim of Sane Cop on the previous page or so; or vote one of guile, Ika, or ProHawk (whichever of the three has the largest wagon; can't check right now as I'm leaving right after I post this.)

[Voidedmafia]

page 33, post 822, to be precise.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm a teensy bit annoyed that, in retrospect, we literally did ring up PRs all of D1 (and finished on one, too). Also, even if I possibly shouldn't be, I'm a little glad I was right in thinking it was multi-cop. I probably was going to investigate SB that night if I had lived, though.

Mollie, was it really that unnerving, what I was doing?

P-EDIT:

-EddieFenix DID take the bait on Voidedmafia, but not on Mathdino OR ProHawk.

What bait? You mean by my role?

Also, as you should know, I'm not going to play in the large (unless it's 14-15p), but I wouldn't mind being a co/backup mod for you.

[Voidedmafia]

Lol get over it Mollie, we both were wrong

I was getting frustrated with how much you were...well, angsting over the game. Granted, I could understand why you were upset about having to reveal it, but the rest of you play afterwards felt really anti-town and nowhere near the level of play you should've been giving.

OTOH, I really don't get what Mollie was being so insistent on. Dino kinda had a point in that ProHawk would've been cleared one way or the other during the night, so whatever his role was was ultimately irrelevant to his alignment, only to whether or not he could do what he said.

Then again, I probably played poorly myself, so who am I to complain. I'll still stand by some of the actions I took (such as not pushing SB as scum simply because he essentially claimed my role), but I can see some of the places where I did something wrong.


P-EDIT: Maybe my recollection of D1 is blurry, but how'd I (or rather, my role) do that?

Do you need any help for tweaking? I mean, I'm not an excellent balancer (or un-balancer, as the case may be), but still.

Also, I don't think it's really GotY. And to be quite honest, if it weren't for Mollie and ProHawk taking snipes at each other for pretty much all of D3 and bits of D2, I would nom it for Most Enjoyable or something.

[Voidedmafia]

there aren't many times where a player completely drops down their guard and bring tears to my eyes with how vulnerable they are willing to be. you are devastatingly gorgeous for it. thank you for that and I am sorry I doubted you, I hope to not ever make that mistake again.

Half of that stuff really feels self-evident if you look at most of my games, but I might just be biasing against myself because I already know what I'm looking at/for.

[Voidedmafia]

researched you during that cult game we played with jacob and thorella. it was a good bit of time ago but I don't think you had ever done anything like that before. I was taken aback but leaped to the wrong conclusion because of it and I am sorry.

the one by chkflip?

[Voidedmafia]

yeah that 1. I looked through your games at that point.

I saw a very different side of you in this game and I thank you for that. there aren't that many moments in mafia where I am truly blown away and I was.

I really don't remember that game (then again, I don't really remember much of all my games beyond the fact that they happened, so no surprises there <_<), but I'll try and give it a 2nd read to see if I can spot what you did.

Hawk: Mainly just some of the posts D3 where you were bellyaching that the town had failed/lost when there didn't seem to be much pointing in that direction (not speaking with an empirical view; I didn't ask for nor receive the spoiled QT). Your heavy reluctance to reveal who you targeted D4, especially after Dino had essentially laid out a plan that would win (and should've made him pretty town since the circle-investigation between him, guile, and you would've found him out as scum or heavily pointed toward him) also felt rather anti-town, as well. I'm not counting your spat with Mollie because that seemed more like two town trying to say the other's scum, but those other examples felt like you were playing somewhat suboptimally in comparison to where the game was (or needed to be).

Also, Mastin, when you run the theme, could you use PTs instead of QTs?

[Voidedmafia]

Less "blocked from memory" and more "what did I do here again?"